Arceus and the Creation trio.
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
Why did they ruin your lore?
Very unpopular opinion especially amongst longtime fans, but the original GSC were terrible. First to begin although I understand why the story is very limited you feel like you’re just picking up Red’s leftovers in terms of team rocket and even the champion. Leaving the story to feel extraordinarily underwhelming and have half delivered. Although I can appreciate some of the landmarks of the region the region itself has been a mistaken for having nonlinear because you can battle the gym leaders out of order when the gameplay gameplay is linear it just gives you a choice of several different linear paths. Which also allows the character to be able to “over over level” during standard gameplay meaning that you just powerhouse in your way through mons that are like 20 or 15 levels below you.
I’m surprised I’ve never heard anyone else complain about it I mean I’m sure someone has at some point but I’ve really haven’t heard anything and this also applies to the gen 4to remakes but the Pokémon choice is extremely extremely extremely limited until you unlock Kanto For example even a lot of the native Johto Pokémon you can’t in counter or in gen 4 remakes case cannot evolve many of those Pokémon. Which leaves casual team design feel very unfinished
compared to the modern games like sword and shield, yes GSC is a hard game, however looking back on the game and even the GEN four remakes The game is quite easy at least until you rematch the Elite 4 and obviously the battle with a red which I do have to give credit to the game for because instead of over leveling for almost Lv. 90 fight you have to design a unique game plan for it which I can really appreciate, but nevertheless the majority of the game is fairly underwhelming and disappointing cool for its time now I guess. And NO having 2 regions doesn’t make up for this.
I’m surprised I’ve never heard anyone else complain about it I mean I’m sure someone has at some point but I’ve really haven’t heard anything and this also applies to the gen 4to remakes but the Pokémon choice is extremely extremely extremely limited until you unlock Kanto For example even a lot of the native Johto Pokémon you can’t in counter or in gen 4 remakes case cannot evolve many of those Pokémon. Which leaves casual team design feel very unfinished
compared to the modern games like sword and shield, yes GSC is a hard game, however looking back on the game and even the GEN four remakes The game is quite easy at least until you rematch the Elite 4 and obviously the battle with a red which I do have to give credit to the game for because instead of over leveling for almost Lv. 90 fight you have to design a unique game plan for it which I can really appreciate, but nevertheless the majority of the game is fairly underwhelming and disappointing cool for its time now I guess. And NO having 2 regions doesn’t make up for this.
Speaking of which...
Kanto is already overrated and frankly boring as a region in the games it takes center-stage. In GSC/HGSS?
It's a barren wasteland devoid of anything worth its salt. You take a boat, have a massive power trip stomping the likes of Janine, and then when you're done, you gotta grind on either the E4 or Mt. Silver on Lv. 40 wilds or Lv. 40-50 trainers to beat Red's Lv. 70+ mons.
Edit: Oh yeah, in HGSS is mid-80's for Red's mons. Lovely.
Matter of fact, HGSS in general is very, very overrated.
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I also agree that the argument of "uuuuh GS has to travelling in 2 regions why doesn't every game do this anymore" is very irrelevant considering how small Kanto and Johto are (even combined) compared to the other regions. It's a very cool thing, but some fans hype it up like if it were two games in one cartridge...
Usually this should be asked some mod, but since I am not quite certain whom to ask:
Is it allowed in this thread to discuss/critisize/disagree on the unpopular opinion? If so, I'll do it for the in my opinion undeserved Jotho bashing.
Anyways, my rather small unpopular opinion: Black/White 2 is superior to Black/White. I won't elude this statement further because this may or may not be popular after all and not fitting for this thread.
Is it allowed in this thread to discuss/critisize/disagree on the unpopular opinion? If so, I'll do it for the in my opinion undeserved Jotho bashing.
Anyways, my rather small unpopular opinion: Black/White 2 is superior to Black/White. I won't elude this statement further because this may or may not be popular after all and not fitting for this thread.
That's the entire point. Threads don't stay up long if they don't provide potential for discussion. And we are all about the back-and-forth here.
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Yeah, go right ahead. As long as it's a fair, structured, and respectable discussion/criticism/disagreement you can use someone else's opinion as a springboard for your own.
My opinion on BW2 is mixed as, to truly respect it, you kind of need to play the original BW. On one hand this is good or at least nice, if GF are going to release an "upgraded" version a sequel is, in my opinion, a WAY better way of doing it as it allows for more worldbuilding and character development especially if the games are a few years apart. On the other hand, it does kind of give people who didn't play BW a feeling they missed out on somethings thus may not get many references or importance of certain events. BW2 does its best to be a standalone game, you don't need to play BW to understand the story as it gives you the very basics of what happened in BW to understand BW2's story, but it won't let you in on all that happened so feels like you're missing half the story... which you are.
Of course, my above discussion is about the games' story, if you're talking about feature then yes, BW2 certainly has more features than BW which is its shining point. Pokemon World Tournament, PokeStar Studios, Join Avenue, a whole batch of new locations and expansions on older locations, and an expanded Pokedex which includes a handful of Legendaries. And if you did play BW (and at this point a second DS) you can unlock special cutscenes of events with important NPCS that happened between the games which sort of explain how things got to be, and one such cutscene lets you catch certain special Pokemon that had belonged to N (pretty much all the Pokemon he battled you with in BW except his League team but includes the Darmanitan, Woobat, and Zorua we saw with him as a kid in the BW intro) which come with their own special sparkle effect like a Shiny Pokemon.
Delphox is one of my favorite starter Pokemon from a design standpoint, and I feel that it is an incredibly underrated Pokemon. I'm honestly not sure why some people seem to dislike it so much, because I really think its design is overall very neat and nails the concept it wants to go for. It's not a flaming animal of rage like the Fire starters that came before it, and after having three Fire / Fighting types in a row, Delphox being Fire / Psychic is honestly very refreshing. It's a mage or sorcerer/witch, which I think is a really nice spin to have for a Fire-type Pokemon starter, and it has a pretty pleasant and naturalistic flow to its design, while remaining relatively simple, but nailing the overall "witch" vibe it's going for, with the stick wand and having something resembling a witch's robe. I really like the smug and confident look it's got on its face in official artwork and in the anime, and I like how it doesn't look like a raging beast like the others but still manages to give off a cool and confident vibe. It's an overall incredibly neat and cool design that manages to look pretty simple but overall natural and it works well. I personally like it more than Braixen.
One of my favorite things (and imo most overlooked things) about Sun and Moon aside from having a very good story imo is the sheer amount of sidequests the game has to offer. There are a bunch of side quests everywhere to be found, including ones with the Trial Captains of Melemele and Akala, and it gives the player plenty of incentive to go back to other areas and do something like have a battle with a Trial Captain or do something small. People criticize Sun and Moon for being very linear, and while it does have a linear progression, it also has plenty of side stuff to do throughout the main story, such as the side quests. Alola also has plenty of hidden side areas that you're not forced to visit in the main story but make good side areas to visit if you wish, such as Melemele Sea, Kala'e Bay, Haina Desert, you get the drill. I also think it has a pretty solid postgame for a "first versions" thing, about on part with BW1 imo. There's a lot of Poni Island locked up till the postgame, the Battle Tree is great, the Looker quest and the Eevee user sidequest are both great as well, and of course, there's Title Defense. That gives plenty of incentive to keep playing even after the main story. Mind you, USUM has a better postgame overall, but SM has a pretty above average postgame for a non-enhanced version amongst those games in the series.
One of my favorite things (and imo most overlooked things) about Sun and Moon aside from having a very good story imo is the sheer amount of sidequests the game has to offer. There are a bunch of side quests everywhere to be found, including ones with the Trial Captains of Melemele and Akala, and it gives the player plenty of incentive to go back to other areas and do something like have a battle with a Trial Captain or do something small. People criticize Sun and Moon for being very linear, and while it does have a linear progression, it also has plenty of side stuff to do throughout the main story, such as the side quests. Alola also has plenty of hidden side areas that you're not forced to visit in the main story but make good side areas to visit if you wish, such as Melemele Sea, Kala'e Bay, Haina Desert, you get the drill. I also think it has a pretty solid postgame for a "first versions" thing, about on part with BW1 imo. There's a lot of Poni Island locked up till the postgame, the Battle Tree is great, the Looker quest and the Eevee user sidequest are both great as well, and of course, there's Title Defense. That gives plenty of incentive to keep playing even after the main story. Mind you, USUM has a better postgame overall, but SM has a pretty above average postgame for a non-enhanced version amongst those games in the series.
Unrelated to the games, but I’ve seen people lately say they wish Adventures was adapted into the anime instead of the anime being completely original. I mean no disrespect to Ash or any of the Adventures protagonists but to me Ash is much more of a “kid-appeal character” than most of the Pokedex Holders. People complain about Ash staying 10 forever but the Adventures protagonists age as the story goes on. As of the ORAS chapter, Green (The girl) is TWENTY. Let’s say after the Sword and Shield chapter ends, if we DO get Diamond and Pearl remakes and a chapter based on them, Diamond, Pearl and Platinum will be in their mid/late teens at least. The target audience of the Pokemon anime is much closer to 10 years old than mid/late teens. Many of Ash’s personality traits (Hot-Blooded, The Pollyanna, All-Loving Hero) also appeal to kids more in general to me. IMO it would be really cool if Adventures got an anime adaptation and its way of adapting the Pokemon games is no less valid than the main series anime but it would work better as a separate series (Like Origins, Generations, and Twilight Wings) than completely replacing the main series anime.
Speaking of Diamond and Pearl remakes, another unpopular opinion: Space Sunrise Live was way too early to expect a remake announcement and we should keep our feet on the ground until Pokemon Day at the end of February.
Speaking of Diamond and Pearl remakes, another unpopular opinion: Space Sunrise Live was way too early to expect a remake announcement and we should keep our feet on the ground until Pokemon Day at the end of February.
Very interesting points here and you've definitely gone a long way in changing my perspective on HGSS. In hindsight I feel, like many, that I've been blinded by the overwhelming love and appreciation you see online for these games. But laying it out like you have done, it's really made me realise that HGSS has a LOT of shortcomings that people who herald them as the gold standard of Pokemon games are unwilling to accept.
They're still undoubtedly very good games, but definitely not as great as I once thought. I completely agree with these points however upon reflection so consider my perspective changed.
Hmm, I was always under the impression that the community almost unanimously agreed that BW2 were the superior games to BW so it comes as a surprise for me to see this as an unpopular opinion here. In my opinion the only aspect of BW that prevails over BW2 is the story, and only just. But everywhere else I feel like BW2 completely excels in comparison to the base games. It has a bigger, less linear map (although BW is still nowhere near as linear as people say), returning Pokemon from previous regions to use in the story, although I am a fan of BW containing Pokemon exclusive to Unova, and it contains far more content both during the main storyline and post-game.
As for my own unpopular opinion, although I'm not sure how unpopular this is after the famous IGN meme, I for one love the expansiveness of the ocean in RSE. To me, it makes perfect sense to give equal attention to the other half of the ecosystem (and a vastly underutilised one at that in the Pokemon games) which plays such a vital and integral role in our own ocean planet. Although I'm not sure of the exact water to land ratio both in Hoenn and irl. I personally loved the feeling of exploring the vastness of the ocean, not to mention that diving underwater also accompanied this to break up the monotony, although granted this feature was a bit bare bones and underwhelming. I can see why people would easily get bored of traversing the endless deep blue though (and the endless Tentacools and Wingulls) but they at least acknowledged this and tried to make it more interesting with various islands and the underwater to explore.
Agreed, I loved the sidequests that Alola had to offer, some even having meaningful messages to tell. The Eeveenium Z quest for example, which consists of battling old trainers that used to be quite the legend, and now they're stuck in some job to pay the fees or retired, the Jolteon trainer shows Alzheimer signs, the Leafeon trainer has undergone lots of surgeries, the Sylveon trainer passed away. Kind of a grim remainder of reality and the pass of time in a Pokemon game of all things.
While I love Adventures as well and don't like the anime nowadays, I don't think an anime adaptation of the manga to replace the current anime would be a great idea. The intended audience is small, like, extremely niche; it would flop for sure. Not sure about a miniseries either, since we already got nice retellings of events with Pokemon Generations. Adventures is its own thing.
Also, it was embarrassing to see pokefans commenting and spamming in the space sunrise about the remakes, legit reminded me of k popers...
I also loved exploring the waters area in Hoenn, both the surface and underwater. What's kinda ironic is that ORAS offered alternatives to ease up the backtracking like flying to any route you want and the faster Kyogre/Sharpedo alternative, and yet this is the game that gets the "too much water" treatment from IGN. And even then, I think 7.8 is a fair score.
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Reminds me how varied RSE is
Grassland, Water, Volcanic Ash fields, Desert, Canyons/Cliffs, the caves, Dense thickets. And that's ignoring town themes, like default, tiled city, Bazaar shop and harbor, Treeville, Mountainside
Literally it just needs a swamp, jungle, and icy places
But no, Too much water memes make people think it's only water...
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Compared to Kanto, who has a volcanic town in Cinnabar Island but, where's the volcano?! Granted, we get to see it in GS and HGSS, where it destroyed the place, but first time playing I was very confused since there was no volcano in that city three years ago (the anime showed one though, Blaine's gym was inside of it)...And you might think console limitations were to blame for not being in the og games, but neither of the two modern remakes show a volcano either.
A volcanic island without a volcano, smh...
A volcanic island without a volcano, smh...
According to the artwork of the Kanto region the volcano is usually to the left of Cinnabar Island. From what I can tell Let's Go provides a space offscreen for it to be, but RBY and FRLG does make it seem if there is a volcano it's unconnected to the inhabited island.
Hot take from Lance:
(Though he could be referencing the Dragon Egg Group now thinking about it...)
(Though he could be referencing the Dragon Egg Group now thinking about it...)
Pretty much the same take as mine. "Dragonlike" and "Dragon-type" not always go together.
That being said, the Dragon Egg Group does hold some definitely not dragonlike Pokémon. In the case of the snake Pokémon, however, it might be a reference on how dragons might be inspired by snakes (and how the word "dragon" derives from the greek word for "serpent").
it probably means dragon is a classification of the type of animal the pokemon is (like some pokemon are mouse pokemon)
Then you look at Seafoam Islands...
Ice cave.
For those who aren't in the OI Discord...
No, he just wants to justify him being a Flying-type specialist instead of a Dragon one.
With that, you are pretty correct. the original games were very over-rated since that's where a lot of fans grew up, so everyone sees it through rose tinted glasses. It is very buggy and bad running, a staple for old consoles, but everything else doesn't make up for that. the difficulty wasn't GOOD difficulty, it was just " Hey, go fight this level 20 unkillable mess of a milktank with your level 15 spinarak " kind of difficulty, or artificail difficulty. Also, you're new pokemon are either useless, locked until the post game, or are too spread out to actually use well. Also, sometimes the game feels rushed with the re-use of team rocket with no reason why they're here, no real plot hook, the only real redeeming factor is the dynamic between silver and giovanni in the REMAKES ONLY, so the original games are flawed as heck and literally just kanto but you have to walk 2x as far and even more terrible. While the remakes have their charm and have much improved the post game, they couldn't fully fix that mess.
Edit: HGSS are still good games, but from the beginning, they were flawed because johto is fundamentaly flawed. Also, people liek ignoring everything this game did wrong because it crammed a bunch of really good features and other stuff, people always focus on taht, but refuse to look at what actually is happening, because of their nostalgia.
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Something from a different franchise, but of a related concept:
There are multiple Devil Fruits shown in-series that can transform those that eat it into a dragon (just one of many, many powers they can give, for those unfamiliar)... and this one apparently classified as a Fish Devil Fruit. So, much like how not all dragons are Dragon-type Pokémon, not all dragons make for Dragon-type Devil Fruits.
So, uh, game set and match, I guess.
Edit: I’m just now realizing this logic can apply to Charizard too.
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I don't like the big new menu sprites.
Firstly, there's that a size disparity exists at all. One of the main reasons the menu sprites exist is to be laid out on a grid (in the PC box), so having an inconsistent size looks really clunky.
Secondly, I don't like the selection process for the larger sprites. It's not great for what it picks as "fully evolved" when looking at crossgen evolutions (e.g. linoone-Hoenn is small despite being incapable of evolving), and it brings the series historic inability to get sizes right to a new format (why is 40cm bellossom shown larger than 200 cm wailmer?). As someone who plays for the interesting combinations, it also bothers me when a NFE that fulfills a different niche as its evolution (e.g. Dusclops) is labeled as 'lesser' solely because of being related to a mon doing something else.
I also don't have any that I think look that much better than the old ones, but that's not a conceptual problem.
Firstly, there's that a size disparity exists at all. One of the main reasons the menu sprites exist is to be laid out on a grid (in the PC box), so having an inconsistent size looks really clunky.
Secondly, I don't like the selection process for the larger sprites. It's not great for what it picks as "fully evolved" when looking at crossgen evolutions (e.g. linoone-Hoenn is small despite being incapable of evolving), and it brings the series historic inability to get sizes right to a new format (why is 40cm bellossom shown larger than 200 cm wailmer?). As someone who plays for the interesting combinations, it also bothers me when a NFE that fulfills a different niche as its evolution (e.g. Dusclops) is labeled as 'lesser' solely because of being related to a mon doing something else.
I also don't have any that I think look that much better than the old ones, but that's not a conceptual problem.
Is it bad I don't generally like any gen that much? Well besides not wanting to prefer post 6, I find the ones before a bit overrated
Gen 1 flaws are known, 2 more people are realizing it's mediocre distribution and level curve. 3 the Rival feels semi aimless along with Wally being underutilized (somewhat addressed in Oras), and then Dexit....
4 is unbelievably slow and wonky with the maps being 3D tiles with very little variation for land (seriously the cliffs suck), 5 the tweened anims are extremely hit miss, and the story in BW1 is very overrated, while 2s is significantly attempting less. BW1s evo rates were garbage too Also Nate is uuuuuugly, and no one can change my mind otherwise
For all its flaws though, I do like the combat and creature designs. But I fear the fanbase being so hung on older gens on the bare surface level is why most fangames or hacks repeat the same issues
Gen 1 flaws are known, 2 more people are realizing it's mediocre distribution and level curve. 3 the Rival feels semi aimless along with Wally being underutilized (somewhat addressed in Oras), and then Dexit....
4 is unbelievably slow and wonky with the maps being 3D tiles with very little variation for land (seriously the cliffs suck), 5 the tweened anims are extremely hit miss, and the story in BW1 is very overrated, while 2s is significantly attempting less. BW1s evo rates were garbage too Also Nate is uuuuuugly, and no one can change my mind otherwise
For all its flaws though, I do like the combat and creature designs. But I fear the fanbase being so hung on older gens on the bare surface level is why most fangames or hacks repeat the same issues
It's a master of nostalgia that makes people look at older gens in a more positive light. For all their flaws, people are inherently the most attached to the generation of Pokemon they started with, and the things that stood out about that generation in particular. You have a lot of people in their late 20s-30s who grew up with Gens 1 and 2, people as old as I am (I'm 21, for the record) grew up with Gen 4 so we have positive memories of that from our childhood, and same with Gen 5 with people just a bit younger than me having grown up with that gen. Regardless of the flaws that those generations had, they were what got many people either older than me or around as old as I am (early 20s, some people in late teens now) into the series and thus many of us have that inherent attachment because so many people grew up with at least one of those gens pre Gen 6.
I'm not sure how old many of the Gen 6 onwards kids are now, but I imagine one of these days you'll see more people who look at Gen 6 in a positive light because they grew up with XY and ORAS. Those kids are probably in high school now and are approaching the point where many of them will likely (or are already becoming) people who frequent the internet and may even stumble across online Pokemon communities. We'll see plenty of that soon. And someday, years from now, there will be people who look at Gens 7 and 8 with glimmering nostalgia and talk about how great those gens were and how newer gens don't hold a candle to them. Those people are still kids right now, but one of these days when those kids who started with SM or Sword and Shield start approaching later years and even start using the Internet more freely, they'll be singing the high praises about SM/SwSh.
Nostalgia is a pretty fascinating and powerful thing. It's true that the old gens were incredibly flawed, and for what it's worth, despite the newer gens also being flawed they are probably more playable overall than the likes of Gen 1 or 2, but so many of us have nostalgia for them because we grew up with those older games. It's an inevitability that because those games came at such an innocent point in our lives that we'll have nostalgia tinted lenses and look at those games fondly.
Such will be the case with newer gens 6 and onwards when the kids who grew up with those games start becoming more frequent visitors of the Internet.