(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

Wonderful not only to look at, but also because those pokemon are in situations you wouldn't typically see them in. It's very charming
e: Hah, the Tyranitar card is specifically referencing the Pignite card from the same set


There's Mienfoo & Falinks cards as well but the little waterfall area they're posing in isnt in either.
 
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I really dont like how many gen 5 pokémon are japanese-based. Yes, gamefreak is a japanese company, but considering the more recent works they've done with gen 7 and 8, it's very clear they could have made unovan pokémon fit an american region with just a little more research and care.

I'll put this stuff under spoilers because it can get pretty long, but here's a review of some of the unovan pokémon and their inspirations

patrat, drilbur and timburr: The idea of a construction worker isnt exclusive to america, but it does fit the aesthetic of a big american city very well, so I'll give the these lines a point in their favor.

pidove: Pidove is based on the large amount of pigeons in american cities. Its line is based on game birds, and even though the main reason it evolves from a pigeon to a pheasant-like bird seems to be a japanese pun, it is not that bad and a decent entry. Also unfezant looks cool.

cottonee: America planted cotton... do yall still do that? I'm guessing you do.

maractus: This is more of a mexican pokémon I guess... but texas and some neighboring states do have lots of mexican heritage and stuff so I feel it fits. Too bad that the only mexican pokémon we have are based on stereotypes, but at least maractus is cute

scraggy: I hate this idiot. Based on hoodlum stereotypes.

sigilyph: Literally only here because it has kanicha dolls as one of it's smaller inspirations. Why would you fuse kanicha dolls and nazca lines is beyond me.

trubbish: haha american city stinky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111!!!!111! While I find trubbish to be a way more appealing design, it is just the concept of koffing/weezing (who I think everyone knows were first named NY/LA to satirize the cities' pollution) done but with trash instead of pollution. I mean, it's accurate, and it fits here... but does lose a point for it.

ducklett: The ugly duckling...? I mean it's not an american story but it's popular in america.

deerling: The four seasons fit very well in an american region. Not an unique concept but one that fits very well and I have no real complains about it.

elgyem: hehe area 51

bouffalant: It has an afro... that's all I got to be honest.

rufflet: yeah

Those are all the pokémon I could find that are made with american culture (and the different cultures inside it, like black culture, irish peoples etc) in mind. The rest are either neutral, japanese, or 1600-800ish europe (and emboar's chinese). Some of these are even stretches/me trying to analyze these pokémon a bit too much.
Notice how there's also no starter or legendary on here. Sure, you don't have to make every single starter and legendary reflect the region's origin, but not a single one? The closest we get is victini and meloetta having greek origins, but I don't think that saying they fit an american region makes sense.

Heres the japanese pokémon for comparison:

oshawott
all the monkeys
munna
Throh and sawk
sandile (it's based on anime tropes, not american tv)
darumaka
zorua
gothita
accelgor
mienfoo
pawniard
deino
larvesta
the genies
reshiram and zekrom (maybe kyurem too?)

We have 11 american lines (assuming you can accept all the reasonings I gave for some of the pokémon) or 12% of the dex vs 21 (maybe 22) japanese lines or 21% of the dex.

Now, the concept of unova reflecting america's cultural hot pot is a fine one. Accurate, even! And I wouldn't mind one or two lines based on japanese stuff. I just think that you don't have enough pokémon that talk about america and too many that talk about japan, and it kinda sucks. Also why the hell are there so many old european pokémon... This region probably has more european references than kalos. Is it because of the colonization?
 
*Looks at Viola's team.*
:pikuh:

Surskit and Vivillon are FAR from the likes of Scizor and Heracross. The difference being that there was a strategy involved instead of mindless "Monotype + every mon has the Leader's TM"

Kabu actually using Will-o-Wisp instead of just spamming whatever Fire STAB with little to no coverage was also a decent idea, though not quite polished because that AI is just awful and they clearly held back by not giving Ninetales Drought.

Picking decent mons and having them actually have some decent synergy and coverage (not necessarily optimization) isn't too busted.
A lot also depends on where the gym is in the order. Early game, decent stats and an offensive move is enough to be a challenge if you're running just your starter*. Later on, though, you likely have a resist with SE moves and pretty good stats, no matter what the gym is. That's where a team of Pelipper/Kingdra/Gastrodon/etc would be appreciated. Even a bug gym could be a real challenge just with a combo of walls and fast mons spamming u-turn.

*I want a Dragon gym 1 just to mess with speedrunners and anyone who tries a solo run. It could be easy if you have an early game bug/bird/rodent, awful if you're relying on Torrent+STAB.
 
*I want a Dragon gym 1 just to mess with speedrunners and anyone who tries a solo run. It could be easy if you have an early game bug/bird/rodent, awful if you're relying on Torrent+STAB.
You don't need to go that far.

Let's take a quick look at BW1. The Triplets were a nice idea in concept. Can't just pull up and roll over them with your starter, it's always a bad matchup and most Unova Starters are trash anyway.

Then you check what options you have.

Patrat, Lillipup, Purrloin, and the conveniently placed monkey.

Outside of Lillipup and *maybe* the monkey, and that even depends on the monkey, Simisear is garbage, you have NOTHING viable on long-term. And the monkey business gets old quick, so you really just got Lillipup.

That's straight-up atrocious design.
 
*I want a Dragon gym 1 just to mess with speedrunners and anyone who tries a solo run. It could be easy if you have an early game bug/bird/rodent, awful if you're relying on Torrent+STAB.
Dragon is a great choice for a first gym now that starters begin with STAB. It would fill the role Rock used to, being a defensive answer to the first move a new player is likely going to rely on, without crushing them offensively so they have time to figure things out.

Speedrunners will still try to solo, switching takes time after all, this would just make it more likely they use the equivalent of RGB Nidoking or BW2 Excadrill
 
Imagine a first gym with dragon types that exclusively know dragon rage, lol.

I also want to mention Crasher Wake and Lucian from gen 4 as great examples of how to handle a well-balanced monotype gym.

The best way to beat a water type gym leader like Wake is by using an electric or grass type. Electric types get walled by Quagsire though, and grass types have a hard time breaking through Gyarados and they also get covered by Floatzel's ice fang. This means that it's very hard to sweep Wake using just one electric or grass type. You need BOTH. The only complaint I have is that Wake only uses one gen 4 mon in Floatzel. I think he should have replaced Quagsire with Gastrodon, and possibly Gyarados with Mantine (as an evolution of the gen 4 Mantyke).

Lucian has a similarly well-built team. He has a Medicham and a Bronzong that can cover bug and dark types with their neutrality to those types. Bronzong in particular is also great against opposing psychic types and ghost types. On top of that, he also uses a Girafarig to handle ghost type attacks. The most impressive thing about Lucian is that he manages to have a full team of Pokemon that are actually of the type that he specializes in, also with good type coverage, in diamond and pearl. I think Girafarig is a particularly interesting choice here, because it's not usually considered a very good Pokemon. It does have a distinct goal on Lucian's team however, which is why I don't feel like it make the fight easier. In platinum, he replaces Girafarig with Espeon, which is undoubtedly a better Pokemon overall, but it's not better in the particular anti-ghost niche that Lucian's team needs.

I have to rephrase my point so that I don't have to move the whole message to little things you like, so here goes. I find it annoying how some of the game designers at GF waste so much potential when it comes to boss design. It seems like most gym leaders just spam Pokemon of the same type with little regard for type coverage, when it's really not that hard to create a monotype team that can't be run over by a single mon with a type advantage.
 

Codraroll

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I have to rephrase my point so that I don't have to move the whole message to little things you like, so here goes. I find it annoying how some of the game designers at GF waste so much potential when it comes to boss design. It seems like most gym leaders just spam Pokemon of the same type with little regard for type coverage, when it's really not that hard to create a monotype team that can't be run over by a single mon with a type advantage.
I guess another way to phrase this would be: Game Freak often manages to design good bosses, but they end up learning nothing from it. What is done well in one game is suddenly botched in the next one, making you wonder if the good boss design happened by coincidence and not by planning. Evaluation of past successes (or for that matter, past failures) doesn't seem to be Game Freak's strong suit at all.
 
Evaluation of past successes (or for that matter, past failures) doesn't seem to be Game Freak's strong suit at all.
I think this issue stems from the fact that GF probably has a different definition of 'success' than us fans on Smogon. For example, there are lots of things in the games that I can point to and say: gen 5 did that thing the best, but that doesn't mean that GF will recognize those things as successes as well. I think they just look to the amount of money that gen 5 made as a whole, and conclude that it wasn't as much of a success as the better-selling games in the franchise.

It honestly breaks my heart to see how poorly B2W2 sold when they are objectively among the best games in the series in terms of content and quality. I think it's no surprise that XY went hard on the Kanto pandering. Gen 5 wasn't considered successful enough so they went back to the generation that sells well.

tldr: success = money
 

Yung Dramps

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I think this issue stems from the fact that GF probably has a different definition of 'success' than us fans on Smogon. For example, there are lots of things in the games that I can point to and say: gen 5 did that thing the best, but that doesn't mean that GF will recognize those things as successes as well. I think they just look to the amount of money that gen 5 made as a whole, and conclude that it wasn't as much of a success as the better-selling games in the franchise.

It honestly breaks my heart to see how poorly B2W2 sold when they are objectively among the best games in the series in terms of content and quality. I think it's no surprise that XY went hard on the Kanto pandering. Gen 5 wasn't considered successful enough so they went back to the generation that sells well.

tldr: success = money
If it makes you feel any better BW2 actually did sell well for "third version" standards, beating out Platinum, Emerald and others by a decent margin, probably helped by that shiny sequel status

Also, honestly, the more I think about it, is it possible we're overhyping how much of a failure Gen 5 was considered by GF? It's worth noting that by the time it came out they had probably more or less mastered the DS hardware so dev costs were likely lower and when I did the research for my Pokemon generations ranked by sales post all the reports I could find from the time said Game Freak were happy with how it performed. It seems like the only thing they made a conceited effort to correct afterwards was the lack of old Pokemon, but other than that...
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't BW + BW2 sell marginally better than RS + E?
From what I could find, RSE sold a total of 23.28 million units (16.22 + 7.06 mil), while BWBW2 sold a total of 24.16 million units (15.64 + 8.52).
I never understood why people tended to overexaggerate the sales of gen 5 being bad when overall they were fine and honestly not too far behind DPPt, XY (if only looking at BW), and SMUSUM, and better than RSE.

Edit: This is according to units sold. If we're looking at gross millions made, with inflation taken into account, BWBW2 ($1316 mil) actually outperforms RSE ($1269 mil) and SMUSUM ($1265 mil)!

Here's a table with more numbers if you're curious.
 
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ScraftyIsTheBest

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Honestly BW1's sales were not really that bad when you consider the context they were released in. They only sold somewhat less than Diamond and Pearl, which is pretty impressive, and even better then HeartGold and SoulSilver in the long run. In fact, its immediate day one sales were actually better than either DP or HGSS, which is more a testament to the idea that BW1 was in fact, quite successful and had a very great launch right off the bat. In Japan in particular (which is their primary audience, after all) the early period of BW1 saw substantially higher sales than Gen 4 did, and was a bit better/overall on par than Gen 4 internationally.

The main thing to consider is that it came at a point where the DS was gradually dying out, and several of the kids who grew up with the DS were starting to move on from it. Being a rather late DS title was immediately a thing against it at that point in terms of sales. So for something that arrived towards the end of the DS's lifespan, BW actually did impressively well.

Also, a lot of our perspectives are based on the western fanbase, which gamefreak has less contact with. I think it'd be interessing if the japanese fans hated gen 5 at the start as much as we did, and if that impacted the future games design choices
Considering it sold way better off the bat than any of the Gen 4 games did at launch there, I'd say they immediately took a liking to it.
 
I think this issue stems from the fact that GF probably has a different definition of 'success' than us fans on Smogon. For example, there are lots of things in the games that I can point to and say: gen 5 did that thing the best, but that doesn't mean that GF will recognize those things as successes as well. I think they just look to the amount of money that gen 5 made as a whole, and conclude that it wasn't as much of a success as the better-selling games in the franchise.

It honestly breaks my heart to see how poorly B2W2 sold when they are objectively among the best games in the series in terms of content and quality. I think it's no surprise that XY went hard on the Kanto pandering. Gen 5 wasn't considered successful enough so they went back to the generation that sells well.

tldr: success = money
Isn’t that the case for all 3rd versions though? They usually sell less than their predecessors but the loss isn’t as big because they can reuses graphics sprites, while just adding just a few more locations characters, and Pokémon. It’s a lot less work than a new title. Part of BW2’s problem was that it was released near the DS’s end of life, many people were upset it wasn’t on 3DS. Maybe If they released it on 3DS or both consoles, it would have a lot bigger success. It also doesn’t help that the DreamRadar was 3DS only.
 

Codraroll

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Also remember that XY were announced less than three months after BW2 were released in the West. BW2 did not receive the focus of marketing for very long, and were discarded as "old news" immediately after Christmas. Even in Japan, BW2's status as "the new big thing" only lasted for six months and change. Given their extremely short time in the limelight, I think they actually sold pretty well.
 
I am not a big fan of the Johto games. They are my least favorites in the series without a doubt, especially HG/SS which are my very least favorites out of all the main series Pokémon games.

That said, I like the Johto Pokémon. While they are far from my favorites (in fact, they are my second least favorites on the whole), I still like them a lot. I think there are many great Johto Pokémon.

However, one thing I really don’t like is this: The fact that the majority of the Johto Pokémon are mostly uncommon or rare in the Johto region and the Johto games. I, along with many other players, consider this to be a big issue with the Johto games. So here’s a post about this phenomenon, which has been given the fan term “Johto Syndrome” since it started in the Johto games and is very prominent there even if it applies to the other regions as well, but to different (usually smaller) extents.

I think this is the right thread for this post. While most of this is just objective facts, it will be done in a rather negative context. I also have some of my own opinions to add as well, mostly towards the end. Those are mostly negative. So that’s why I’m posting this here.


Johto Syndrome in Johto – The complete breakdown

How hard is it to find all of the Johto Pokémon in the Johto games? I have the answer. I have gone through all 100 Johto Pokémon and checked how they appear in the five different Johto games. I mostly focused on how they appear in Johto itself, but I have included how they appear in Kanto as well. The descriptions vary a bit depending on how much details I felt were necessary. For the few Pokémon that are really common, I didn’t feel that there was any need to go into any super detailed description of where to find them.

Worth noting is that Johto has the smallest amount of Pokémon from the regions with a big number of Pokémon. It has exactly 100 Pokémon, putting it below Generations 1 and 3-5, but above Generations 6-8. I wanted to mention that somewhere but wasn’t sure where, so I put it here.

A few years ago, Codraroll made a post about Johto Syndrome in Alola (only for S/M, because US/UM did not exist at that time). That post can be found here. It was one of the inspirations for me to make this, but my overall structure is a bit different and I go a bit more into more details in this post.

For the Pokémon that evolve from a Pokémon from another region, as well as the Baby Pokémon, I have listed their evolutionary relatives as well in case the actual Johto Pokémon in question is not found anywhere in the games.

I have used Serebii and Bulbapedia as my sources for everything. If I have gotten anything wrong, it might be because they have given me the wrong information, or I might have screwed up things on my own. If you notice any mistakes or anything that’s missing, please let me know and I’ll fix it!

For HG/SS, I have not included the Pokéwalker, because I feel it would be too complicated, and I don’t have a lot of experience with it myself so I don’t really know how it works. However, I have included the Safari Zone. Note that blocks in the Safari Zone are post-game only, so if blocks are listed, it means that the Pokémon in question can only be found there during the post-game. If it says that no blocks are needed, it can be found there during the main game.

In HG/SS, it is also possible to get a Wooper, Mareep and Slugma from a Gift Egg if you insert a special code to an NPC in Violet City. While this method is a bit complicated, I have still included it. To get the gift egg, you need your Trainer ID from the game, then you have to insert it here and get the right codes. From what I remember, it is possible to get all three of these Pokémon through this method.

Regarding Swarms, they are post-game only in HG/SS. but I don’t know about G/S/C. I have assumed that they are post-game only in G/S/C as well, but this may be incorrect and might thus affect the rarity of certain swarm Pokémon.

Edit: Thanks to Nokocchi and CPU, I have learned that Swarms in G/S/C can be triggered before the post-game. Because of this, the swarming Pokémon in G/S/C are a little easier to find than in HG/SS as long as you can trigger a Swarm. There's also this advice from Nokocchi on how to trigger Swarms easily:
Depending on the language of the game, triggering swarms in Gen II is very easy. In versions that added in Daylight Savings Time(Most importantly the English version), you can talk to your mom and keep toggling DST on and off. Every time you do so, you get a phonecall from one of the people registered in your Pokegear. In Gen II you can also deleted unwanted phone numbers, so it's Pretty easy to to just mash buttons until you get the call you want. This can also be done from any Phone Numbers with other bonuses, like handing out items, for easy evolution stones.
For fishing, the Old and Good Rods can be obtained during the main game, but the Super Rod is post-game only. This goes for all Johto games.

Some Johto Pokémon require an item in order to evolve, I decided to make a separate list for all of these items and where to find them, as well as some comments regarding that. Find it below.
:Sun Stone:
Sun Stone
In G/S/C, the only way to get a Sun Stone is through winning first place in the Bug Catching Contest in the National Park, which is held on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays. Note that if Cooltrainer Nick participates, the odds of winning are very low since he will almost always win the contest.
In HG/SS, it can be obtained in the same way, but through other means as well. Here, it can also be obtained as a gift from Camper Tanner on Route 13 (post-game only), it can be purchased from the Pokéathlon Dome for a cost of 3000 points (Sundays, Mondays and Fridays, post-game only), it can be found as a hold item on wild Solrock (Safari Zone, post-game only, there’s a 5% chance of them holding one) or through Pickup (4% chance to find one for levels 31-50, 10% chance for levels 51-100).

:King’s Rock:
King’s Rock
In all Johto games, a King’s Rock can be found at B1F in Slowpoke Well, reaching it requires Surf.
In Crystal, it can also be obtained through Thief as it is being held by Cooltrainer Gaven's Kingler on Route 26, from the second rematch and onwards.
In HG/SS, it can also be obtained through Pickup (levels 11-30, 1% chance), or from the Pokéathlon Dome for 3000 points (only on Sundays before beating the game, but on Mondays and Thursdays too during the post-game).
It can also be obtained as a hold item from some wild Pokémon: Slowpoke and Poliwhirl in G/S/C has a 2% chance of holding one, while Slowbro and Poliwhirl in HG/SS has a 5% chance of holding one.

:Metal Coat:
Metal Coat
In all Johto games, a Metal Coat can be obtained on the SS. Aqua, as a gift from a gentleman after finding his granddaughter. But that is post-game only.
In Crystal and HG/SS, a Metal Coat is also held by the Magneton you get from the in-game trade at the Power Plant (trading for it requires a Dugtrio), which is also post-game only.
In HG/SS, it is also possible to get a Metal Coat from the Pokéathlon Dome for 2500 points. It can only be purchased on Fridays before beating the game, but on Saturdays and Tuesdays as well during the post-game. A Metal Coat can also be found as a hold item on various wild Pokémon. In G/S/C, wild Magnemite has a 2% chance of holding one. In HG/SS, wild Magnemite, Magneton, Steelix, Beldum, Metang and Bronzor all have a 5% chance of holding one. Out of these, only Magnemite/Magneton and Steelix can be found in the wild before the post-game.

:Up-Grade:
Up-Grade
In all Johto games, the only way to obtain an Up-Grade is from an NPC at Silph Co. during the post-game.

:Dragon Scale:
Dragon Scale
In all Johto games, a Dragon Scale can be found at Mt. Mortar, Surf and Waterfall are required in order to get it. In HG/SS, it can also be bought at the Pokéathlon Dome for 2500 Points on Wednesdays and Fridays, but only during the post-game. It also appears as an hold item on wild Pokémon in all Johto games. It is held by wild Horsea, Seadra, Dratini, and Dragonair. They all have a 2% chance of holding one in G/S/C, and a 5% chance to hold one in HG/SS.

Looking at all of these items, they are all fairly hard to obtain during the main game. Getting a Sun Stone requires you to win the Bug Catching Contest, or from Pickup in HG/SS (with very low odds of getting one). The Dragon Scale is available very late and requires backtracking. The King’s Rock also requires backtracking but is a bit easier to obtain. The Metal Coat is only obtainable as a hold item on wild Pokémon in G/S/C, HG/SS also gives the option to get one from the Pokéathlon but otherwise it is post-game only. And the Up-Grade is post-game only in all Johto games.
Next, the Pokémon themselves. Here’s how I have rated the availability of the Johto Pokémon, in 6 different stages:
Common: Pokémon which are found at high rates and in many areas.
Uncommon: One of the three following categories:
1. Pokémon which are found at high rates but only in one or a few areas.
2. Pokémon which are found in many areas but at lower rates.
3. Pokémon which are found in many areas and/or has high rates to appear, but require a special method to appear (such as Headbutt, Rock Smash or Fishing).
Rare: Pokémon which are only found in one or a few areas and at an even lower rate, 4-10%.
Mythological: Pokémon which are only found in one area (or sometimes more than one) and at a considerably lower rate, 1-3%.
Elusive: Pokémon which can only be obtained once throughout the games apart from breeding or trade.
Unobtainable: Pokémon that are not available until the post-game. I have still listed the post-game availability for all of the Pokémon that are only found during the post-game in at least one Johto game. Otherwise, the rates are for the main game only. Celebi is a special case here as it is mostly unobtainable outside of events (except for in VC Crystal) and has thus been listed as such.

That should be enough as an intro. Now, let us begin.
:Chikorita: :Bayleef: :Meganium: :Cyndaquil: :Quilava: :Typhlosion: :Totodile: :Croconaw: :Feraligatr:
Chikorita/Cyndaquil/Totodile lines
Starters. Like in all other Pokémon games, you are guaranteed to get one of them in the beginning of the game, but you only get one and have to trade in order to get the others. And like in almost every other Pokémon game, no members of the starter lines can be found in the wild in any of the Johto games.
Rate: Elusive

:Sentret: :Furret:
Sentret line
Sentret can be found on Route 29 in all games with a 40% chance of appearing during Morning and Day. In Crystal, it can also be found on Route 43 with a 30% chance of appearing during Morning and Day. In HG/SS, it can be found in the following areas in the Safari Zone: Wetland during Morning and Day, Swamp at all times. No blocks required. Sentret can also be found on Route 1 in Kanto in all games, it has a 20% chance of appearing there during Morning and Day.
In Crystal, Furret can be found on Route 43 during Morning and Day with a 15% chance of appearing. It is also found on Kanto Route 1 in all games, as well as in the Wetland and Swamp areas in the Safari Zone in HG/SS, but that requires blocks.
Rate: Uncommon

:Hoothoot: :Noctowl:
Hoothoot line
Hoothoot can be found in a ton of locations at varying encounter rates. It is more common in Crystal & HG/SS than in G/S. However, it can only be found at Night when it comes to regular encounters. In Crystal and HG/SS, Hoothoot can also be found through Headbutt in various areas, during all times of day.
Noctowl is found at Night in various areas just like Hoothoot. But it is not found in as many areas as Hoothoot, nor is it as common. It is found in more areas in Crystal than in G/S & HG/SS. Like with Hoothoot, it can also be found through Headbutt, but only in Ilex Forest in Crystal, at all times of day.
Rate: Common

:Ledyba: :Ledian:
Ledyba line
Version exclusive, only found in Silver, Crystal and SoulSilver.
Ledyba can be found in a few locations with a 30-40% chance of appearing, but only in the Morning except for at Kanto Route 2 in SoulSilver where it has a 4% chance to appear during the Day as well. In Crystal and SoulSilver, it can also be found through Headbutt at various areas at all times of day.
Ledian has a 5% chance of appearing at Route 2 during the Morning in Silver & Crystal, but a 9% chance in SoulSilver. In Crystal, Ledian also has a 5% chance of appearing at Route 37 in the Morning. In SoulSilver, Ledian can also be found through Headbutt in Viridian Forest in the Morning, with a 10% chance of appearing.
Rate: Uncommon

:Spinarak: :Ariados:
Spinarak line
Version exclusive, only found in Gold, Crystal and HeartGold.
Spinarak and Ariados have generally the same encounter rates as Ledyba and Ledian, the difference is that they are only found during the Night as opposed to in the Morning. Ariados is slightly less common on Kanto Route 2 in HeartGold compared to Ledian in SoulSilver, it has a 5% chance to appear there compared to Ledian’s 9%.
Rate: Uncommon

:Crobat:
Crobat
Not found in the wild in any of the Johto games.
Zubat can be found in a ton of locations in all Johto games and is common in the majority of them. The same goes for Golbat even if it is somewhat more uncommon than Zubat. Golbat evolves into Crobat through Friendship, which can be difficult and take a long time to get done.
Rate: Common (Pre-evolutions only)

:Chinchou: :Lanturn:
Chinchou line
Chinchou can be found through fishing at various places. It is available with both the Good Rod and the Super Rod.
Chinchou is more common with the Good Rod in G/S/C compared to in HG/SS. It has a 20% to appear in G/S/C, but only a 7% chance in HG/SS. However, it the other way around with the Super Rod as it has a 40% chance to appear with it in G/S/C but a 60% chance in HG/SS.
Lanturn can also be found through fishing, but only with the Super Rod. It is also rarer than Chinchou as it has a 10% chance of appearing in G/S/C, and a 3% chance in HG/SS.
Rate: Uncommon (G/S/C) / Rare (HG/SS)

:Pichu:
Pichu
Baby Pokémon, not found in the wild.
Wild Pikachu can be found at Route 2 in G/S/C and in Viridian Forest in HG/SS, but that is post-game only.
Raichu is not found in the wild at all in any Johto game.
In Crystal, Pichu can hatch from the Odd Egg, the odds of getting one is 9% (8% chance of a regular, 1% chance of a shiny).
In Crystal, Pikachu can also be bought from the Celadon Game Corner for 2222 coins, but that is also post-game only.
In HG/SS, you can also get a (French) Pikachu from a trade with Lt. Surge during the post-game if you give him another Pikachu. So that doesn’t really help.
In HG/SS only, a Spiky-Eared Pichu can be obtained at Ilex Forest if you have the Event Pikachu-colored (Shiny) Pichu.
Rate: Elusive (Crystal)
Post-game: Rare (Pikachu, G/S & HG/SS)

:Cleffa:
Cleffa
Baby Pokémon, not found in the wild.
Clefairy can be found in Mt. Moon in all games. It has a 5% chance to appear in G/S and HG/SS at all times. The same mostly goes for Crystal, but here it has a 25% to appear during Night at 1F.
It can also be found at night in the Meadow area in the Safari Zone in HG/SS with a 10% chance of appearing, blocks are not required, but they can be used to increase the levels of the Clefairy from 17 to 42.
In Crystal, Cleffa can hatch from the Odd Egg, with a 19% chance of getting one (16% for a regular, 3% for a shiny).
Clefable is not found in the wild in any of the Johto games.
Rate: Elusive (Crystal) / Rare (Clefairy, HG/SS)
Post-game: Rare (Clefairy, G/S)

:Igglybuff:
Igglybuff
Baby Pokémon, not found in the wild.
In G/S, Jigglypuff is found on Route 46, with a 5% chance of appearing. In Crystal, it can be found at routes 34/35 with a 5% chance of appearing. In HG/SS, Jigglypuff can be found at the Meadow and Swamp areas at the Safari Zone with a 40% chance of appearing, but it is not found at Night at the Swamp area. No blocks required.
During the post-game, Jigglypuff is also found at Routes 3/4 in G/S and HG/SS, while it is found at Routes 5/6/7 in Crystal.
In Crystal, Igglybuff can hatch from the Odd Egg, with a 19% chance of getting one (16% for regular, 3% for shiny).
Wigglytuff is not found in the wild in any of the Johto games.
Rate: Elusive (Crystal) / Rare (Jigglypuff, G/S) / Uncommon (Jigglypuff, HG/SS)

:Togepi: :Togetic:
Togepi/Togetic
Not found in the wild.
In all Johto games, the only way to get a Togepi is to hatch the Egg you get from Professor Elm’s assistant during the story. Similar to the starters, you are guaranteed to get a Togepi, but you only get one.
Togetic is not found in the wild, so it has to be evolved from Togepi. It evolves through Friendship, which can be difficult and take a long time to get done.
Togekiss is not found in the wild in HG/SS, it is not in the Johto Dex either.
Rate: Elusive

:Natu: :Xatu:
Natu line
Natu has a 90% chance to appear in the grass outside of Ruins of Alph, but in order to get there, you must backtrack through Union Cave after getting Surf and Strength.
Xatu is not found in the wild, but in Crystal and HG/SS, a Xatu can be obtained through an in-game trade with an NPC in Pewter City during the post-game, said trade requires a Haunter.
Rate: Uncommon

:Mareep: :Flaaffy: :Ampharos:
Mareep line
Version exclusive, only found in G/S and HG/SS.
In all of these games, Mareep can be found at Routes 32, 42 and 43. It is less common on Route 43, as well as less common during Night at Routes 32 and 43. It is more common in Silver and SoulSilver on Route 42 (50% chance to appear, as opposed to 30% in Gold and HeartGold).
In HG/SS, Mareep can also be found at the Rocky Beach area in the Safari Zone, but that requires blocks.
Flaaffy can be found at Routes 42/43, with a 10% chance of appearing at Route 42 and a 30/40% chance on Route 43.
Ampharos is not found in the wild in any of the Johto games.
In HG/SS, you can also get a Mareep from a Gift Egg if you input a special code to a person in Violet City, see the intro for instructions.
Rate: Uncommon

:Bellossom:
Bellossom
Not found in the wild.
Oddish can be found at Ilex Forest during the Night with a 60% chance of appearing in G/S & HG/SS, 50% in Crystal. In Kanto, it is found at Routes 5/6/24/25 in G/S & HG/SS, but only on Routes 24/25 in Crystal. In HG/SS, wild Oddish can also be found in the Marshland area in the Safari Zone during the Night with a 5% chance of appearing, no blocks needed.
Wild Gloom can be found at Route 5 in G/S, Route 24 in Crystal, Routes 47/48, 5/6 and in the Marshland area in the Safari Zone in HG/SS. No blocks needed, but using them will increase the level of Gloom and might make it more or less common. Like with Oddish, it only appears during the Night in all games and areas except for with blocks in the Safari Zone.
To evolve Gloom into Bellossom, a Sun Stone is required.
Rate: Uncommon (Pre-evolutions only) / Unavailable (in the wild)

:Marill: :Azumarill:
Marill line
In G/S and HG/SS, Marill has a 1% chance to appear at Mt. Mortar outside of Swarms.
In Crystal, Marill is found at higher rates (5-30%) at both Mt. Mortar and Route 42, with Surf giving the highest chance of finding one.
In HG/SS, Marill is also found at the Meadow area in the Safari Zone, either through Surf or in the grass at Night, no blocks needed.
Azumarill is not found in the wild in any of the Johto games.
In HG/SS, Azurill is not a part of the Johto Dex. It can be found in the wild at the Savannah area in the Safari Zone, but that requires blocks.
Rate: Mythological (Regularly in G/S) / Uncommon (Regularly in Crystal, during a Swarm in G/S) / Rare (HG/SS)

:Sudowoodo:
Sudowoodo
In all Johto games, Sudowoodo appears as a roadblock on Route 36, it can be battled once you get the Squirtbottle. It must be caught or defeated in order to progress, but you only get to face one in the entire game. In G/S/C, it will be lost forever if defeated, but in HG/SS, it will respawn after beating the game if it is defeated the first time.
In HG/SS, Bonsly is not found in the wild, it is not a part of the Johto Dex either.
Rate: Elusive

:Politoed:
Politoed
Not found in the wild.
Wild Poliwag can be found in many different locations in all Johto games, both through Surfing and fishing (with all rods) or even in grass in some areas. Poliwhirl is similar, it can also be found in many areas, but in fewer than Poliwag. It is also generally less common.
In order to make Poliwhirl evolve into Politoed, it needs to be traded while holding a King’s Rock.
Rate: Common (Pre-evolutions only) / Unavailable (in the wild)

:Hoppip: :Skiploom: :Jumpluff:
Hoppip line
Hoppip can be found on some routes in both Johto and Kanto with a varying chance of appearing, between 5-35%. In Crystal, it is found on more routes in Johto but has lower encounter rates. In HG/SS, it is also found on Route 48 and in the Meadow area in the Safari Zone, no blocks required.
Skiploom is found on Route 14 in all games, and the Meadow area in the Safari Zone in HG/SS, no blocks needed but they can increase its level and possibly change its rate of appearance.
Jumpluff is not found in the wild in G/S/C. In HG/SS, it can be found in the Marshland area in the Safari Zone, but that requires blocks.
Rate: Common

:Aipom:
Aipom
Wild Aipom can be found in many areas in all Johto games, but only through Headbutt. It has a 20% chance of appearing in G/S/C and a 20-30% chance of appearing in HG/SS.
Ambipom is not found in the wild in HG/SS.
Rate: Uncommon

:Sunkern: :Sunflora:
Sunkern line
Sunkern is found in the National Park with a 25% chance of appearing, and at Route 24 in Kanto with a 30% chance of appearing. It only appears during the Day. It also appears in the Meadow area in the Safari Zone in HG/SS, no blocks required.
Sunflora is not found in the wild in any of the Johto games.
To evolve Sunkern into Sunflora, a Sun Stone is required.
Rate: Uncommon

:Yanma:
Yanma
In all Johto games, Yanma is found at Route 35 with a 1% chance of appearing outside of Swarms. This is a Pokémon that is the very definition of Johto Syndrome.
In HG/SS, Yanmega is not found in the wild.
Rate: Mythological (Regularly, all games) / Uncommon (During a Swarm, G/S/C)

:Wooper: :Quagsire:
Wooper line
Wooper can be found through Surfing in Union Cave or at Ruins of Alph in G/S/C, as well as in the Grass in Route 32. It has a higher chance of appearing at Night in G/S, while it only appears at Night in Crystal. In Crystal, it also appears as an overworld encounter at Night at the Grass in the outside area of Ruins of Alph, and on the floor inside of Union Cave.
In HG/SS, Wooper appears in the grass in Route 32 at Night, through Surfing at Ruins of Alph or in Union Cave, or through Surfing at Cliff Edge Gate and as a floor encounter at Cliff Cave. It also appears in the Meadow, Wetland and Marshland areas in the Safari Zone during Night, no blocks needed.
Quagsire can be found in the wild as well, it actually appears in more areas than Wooper and has a higher chance of appearing as well.
In HG/SS, you can also get a Wooper from a Gift Egg if you input a special code to a person in Violet City, see the intro for instructions.
Rate: Common

:Espeon: :Umbreon:
Espeon/Umbreon
No members of the Eevee line can be found in the wild in any of the Johto games.
In all Johto games, Eevee is a Gift Pokemon you can receive from Bill in Goldenrod City.
Both Espeon and Umbreon evolve through Friendship, which can be hard and take a long time to get done. Eevee evolves into Espeon during Morning and Day, and into Umbreon during the Night.
In G/S and HG/SS, you can buy Eevee from the Celadon Game Corner in the post-game for 6666 coins.
Rate: Elusive

:Murkrow:
Murkrow
In G/S/C, Murkrow can be found at Routes 7 & 16/18 at Night. In HG/SS, it is found at Routes 7 & 16 during the Night and at the Swamp area of the Safari Zone, no blocks needed but they do make it somewhat more common.
Honchkrow is not found in the wild in HG/SS, it is not a part of the Johto Dex either.
Rate: Rare (HG/SS)
Post-game: Rare (G/S/C)

:Slowking:
Slowking
Not found in the wild.
Slowpoke is found in Slowpoke Well and Tohjo falls in all Johto games. In Slowpoke Well, it has a 15% chance of appearing on the floor and 90-100% chance to appear through Surfing. In Tohjo Falls, it has a 15% chance to appear on the floor and 30% chance to appear through Surfing. In HG/SS, Slowpoke is also found at Rocky Beach area in the Safari Zone, no blocks needed.
In order to make Slowpoke evolve into Slowking, it needs to be traded while holding a King’s Rock.
Rate: Uncommon (Pre-evolution only) / Unavailable (in the wild)

:Misdreavus:
Misdreavus
In G/S/C, it is only found at Mt. Silver, which is post-game only and the very last area you get to in the games. In HG/SS, it is found at Mt. Silver but also in Cliff Cave with a 5% chance to appear at Night. It also appears in the Forest area of the Safari Zone during Morning and Day with a 15% chance to appear, no blocks required.
In HG/SS, Mismagius is not found in the wild. It is not a part of the Johto Dex either.
Rate: Uncommon (HG/SS)
Post-game: Rare (G/S/C)

:Unown-U: :Unown-N: :Unown-O: :Unown-W: :Unown-N:
Unown
In all Johto games, Unown can be found inside of the Ruins of Alph after at least one of the slide puzzles have been completed, doesn’t matter which one. Unown has a 100% chance to appear here, but it is the only area in the games where it can be found.
Rate: Uncommon

:Wobbuffet:
Wobbuffet
In G/S/C, Wobbuffet is only found in the Route 45 part of Dark Cave, with a 15% chance of appearing. In Crystal, you can also get it from the Game Corner in Goldenrod City for 1500 Coins.
In HG/SS, it also appears in the Peak area of the Safari Zone during the Night, no blocks needed. In the post-game, it can also be found in Cerulean Cave.
In HG/SS, Wynaut is not found in the wild, nor is it a part of the Johto Dex.
Rate: Uncommon

:Girafarig:
Girafarig
Version exclusive, only appears in G/S & HG/SS.
In G/S, it only appears at Route 43 where it has a 30% chance of appearing.
It is the same in HG/SS, but here it also appears at Route 48 with a 5% chance of appearing, and in the Plains area in the Safari Zone with a 10% chance to appear, no blocks needed.
Rate: Uncommon

:Pineco: :Forretress:
Pineco line
Pineco appears in many areas, but only through Headbutt. In all Johto games, there is a 30% chance to find one from all of the trees that it can appear from.
Forretress does not appear in the wild in any of the Johto games.
Rate: Uncommon

:Dunsparce:
Dunsparce
Dunsparce only appears in Dark Cave, on the Route 31 side. It has a 1% chance to appear as a regular encounter outside of Swarms, but a 90% chance through Rock Smash in HG/SS.
Rate: Mythological (Regularly in G/S/C) / Uncommon (Regularly in HG/SS, during a Swarm in G/S/C)

:Gligar:
Gligar
Version exclusive, only appears in Gold, Crystal and HeartGold.
It has a 20% chance to appear on Route 45 in these games.
Gliscor is not found in the wild in HG/SS, it is not a part of the Johto Dex either.
Rate: Uncommon

:Steelix:
Steelix
Not found in the wild in G/S/C, but it is in HG/SS. Here, it has a 2% chance to appear in Cliff Cave. In the post-game, it also has a 20% chance to appear at 1F in Mt. Silver.
Onix has a 5-10% chance of appearing at Union Cave during the main game, and a 15-20% chance of appearing in Victory Road. In HG/SS, Onix can also be found at Cliff Cave and at the Wasteland area in the Safari Zone, no blocks needed. In the post-game, it is also found in Rock Tunnel and Mt. Silver in all Johto games.
Onix can also be obtained through an in-game trade in Violet City in all games, which requires a Bellsprout (which in turn is easily found on the nearby Routes 31/32).
In order to evolve Onix into Steelix, it must be traded while holding a Metal Coat.
In HG/SS, you can also trade for a Steelix with Jasmine. This requires you to first beat the main game and then beat Jasmine in a rematch at Saffron City. After that, you can trade with her, she will accept any Pokémon for her Steelix.
Rate: Mythological (in the wild, HG/SS) / Unavailable (in the wild, G/S/C) / Uncommon (Onix, all games)

:Snubbull: :Granbull:
Snubbull line
In G/S & HG/SS, Snubbull has a 1% chance to appear outside of Swarms on Route 38. In Crystal, it appears on Routes 34/35 and on Routes 6/7/8 in Kanto, with a 30% chance of appearing at all times.
In Crystal, wild Granbull can be found on Route 6 in Kanto with a 5% chance to appear during Morning and Day.
Rate: Mythological (Regularly in G/S & HG/SS) / Uncommon (Regularly in Crystal, during a Swarm in G/S)

:Qwilfish:
Qwilfish
In G/S/C, it can found on Route 32 at all times with a 10% chance of appearing, but only with the Super Rod, which means it is post-game only. The chance is higher on Route 32 when there is a Swarm. During a Swarm, it can be found with all Rods. It can also be found on Routes 12/13 in Kanto.
In HG/SS, it is found on the same Routes as in G/S/C, but only with a 2-3% chance to appear outside of Swarms (which only happen on Route 32), which raises it to 90%. In the remakes, it can be found with the Good Rod as well, but only on Route 32. On the other routes, it is only found with the Super Rod.
Rate: Unavailable (G/S/C, Regularly) / Uncommon (G/S/C, during a Swarm) / Mythological (HG/SS)

:Scizor:
Scizor
Not found in the wild.
Scyther can only be found in the Bug Catching Contest at the National Park, which is held on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays. It has a 5% chance to appear there.
In order to evolve Scyther into Scizor, it must be traded while holding a Metal Coat.
Rate: Rare (Pre-evolution only) / Unavailable (in the wild)

:Shuckle:
Shuckle
In G/S/C, it is found through Rock Smash at Route 40, Cianwood City, Burned Tower and Dark Cave. It has a 10% chance of appearing, providing you get a Pokémon to appear at all.
In HG/SS, it is found in fewer locations than in G/S/C. Here, it only appears in Cianwood City during the main game. In the post-game, it can also be found in the Marshland area in the Safari Zone (which requires blocks), and in Vermilion City.
You can also receive a “gift” Shuckle from a person in Cianwood City, but you will have to give it back at a later point if you want to keep your honesty intact. However the original owner will let you keep this Shuckle if you have gotten friendly enough with it.
Rate: Rare

:Heracross:
Heracross
In G/S/C, it is found at various places through Headbutt, with a 30% chance of appearing. It is found at fewer areas in Crystal than in G/S.
In HG/SS, it seems to be mostly the same as in G/S, but the rate of finding one varies between 20 and 30%.
Rate: Uncommon

:Sneasel:
Sneasel
In G/S and HG/SS, Sneasel is only found at Route 28 & Mt. Silver, both of which are post-game only. It is somewhat more common in HG/SS.
In Crystal, Sneasel is only found at Night in the Ice Path, at rates varying between 1 and 10% depending on the floor.
In HG/SS, Weavile is not found in the wild, it is not a part of the Johto Dex either.
Rate: Rare (Crystal) / Unavailable (G/S & HG/SS)
Post-game: Rare (G/S) / Uncommon (HG/SS)

:Teddiursa: :Ursaring:
Teddiursa line
Version exclusives with a twist: only found in Gold, Crystal and SoulSilver. In the Japanese and Korean versions of the Gen 2 games, they are exclusive to Silver instead of Gold.
In Gold, Teddiursa can be found at Route 45 with a 10% chance of appearing.
In Crystal, Teddiursa can be found at the Route 31 & 45 parts of Dark Cave with a 5% chance of appearing, but only in the Morning.
In SoulSilver, Teddiursa can be found at Route 45 like in Gold, but it can also be found at Mt. Silver during the post-game.
Ursaring is a lot more common than Teddiursa. In Gold and Crystal, it can be found in several places, notably Mt. Silver and Route 28 (Gold only) which are post-game only, but also in Victory Road (Gold) or Dark Cave (Crystal) before the post-game.
In SoulSilver, Ursaring’s locations are mostly similar to in Gold.
Rate: Uncommon

:Slugma: :Magcargo:
Slugma line
In the wild, Slugma can only be found at Routes 16/17/18 in Kanto. It has a 35% chance to appear on Route 17 during the Day, otherwise a 5% chance to appear.
Magcargo is not found in the wild in any of the Johto games.
In HG/SS, you can also get a Slugma from a Gift Egg if you input a special code to a person in Violet City, see the intro for instructions.
Rate: Unavailable (G/S/C) / Elusive (HG/SS)
Post-game: Uncommon

:Swinub: :Piloswine:
Swinub/Piloswine
In all Johto games, Swinub is found at Ice Path with a 40% chance of appearing. In Crystal, it does not appear at Night.
Piloswine is not found in the wild in any of the Johto games.
In HG/SS, Mamoswine is not found in the wild either.
Rate: Uncommon

:Corsola:
Corsola
In G/S/C, Corsola can be found through fishing at various areas. It has a 10% chance to appear with the Good Rod and a 30% chance to appear with the Super Rod, but it does not appear at Night.
In HG/SS, it appears at fewer areas (as well as in some different areas compared to G/S/C), but it now appears at all times and not only at Morning/Day. The rates have also changed for the Good Rod, it now only has a 3% chance to appear as opposed to a 10% chance in G/S/C.
Rate: Rare (G/S/C) / Mythological (HG/SS)

:Remoraid: :Octillery:
Remoraid line
Version exclusive, only found in G/S & HG/SS.
In G/S, it can be found through fishing at Route 44 with a 10% chance of appearing, but only with the Super Rod, which means it is post-game only. During a Swarm, it has higher chances of appearing and can be found with the Old and Good Rods as well.
In HG/SS, it can be found through fishing at Route 44, this time with both the Good and Super Rod, but only with a 2% chance of appearing regularly. The rate raises to 90% during swarms.
Octillery is not found in the wild in any of Johto games.
Rate: Unavailable (G/S, regularly) / Uncommon (G/S, during a Swarm) / Mythological (HG/SS)
Post-game: Rare (G/S)

:Delibird:
Delibird
Version exclusive, only found in Silver, Crystal and SoulSilver.
In Silver and SoulSilver, Delibird has a 20% chance of appearing in all areas of the Ice Path. In Crystal, it has a 40% chance of appearing, but it only appears at Night.
Rate: Uncommon

:Mantine:
Mantine
Version exclusive, only found in Gold, Crystal and HeartGold.
In all three games, Mantine has a 10% chance of appearing on Route 41.
In HeartGold, Mantyke is not found in the wild, and is not a part of the Johto Dex.
Rate: Rare

:Skarmory:
Skarmory
Version exclusive, only found in Silver, Crystal and SoulSilver.
In all games, it has a 5% chance to appear on Route 45. In Crystal, it is not found at Night.
Rate: Rare

:Houndour: :Houndoom:
Houndour line
In all games, Houndour can be found regularly on Route 7 during the Night, which is post-game only. It has a 5% chance to appear in G/S and HG/SS, but a 20% chance to appear in Crystal.
In HG/SS, it can also be found at the Savannah area in the Safari Zone, but that requires blocks.
Houndoom is not found in the wild in G/S/C. In HG/SS, it can be found at the Plains area in the Safari Zone, which also requires blocks.
Rate: Unavailable
Post-game: Rare (G/S & HG/SS) / Uncommon (Crystal)

:Kingdra:
Kingdra
Not found in the wild.
Wild Horsea can be found at Whirl Islands at various rates in all games, the best chance to find one is through Surfing. It is more common in G/S/C than in HG/SS.
Seadra can be found in the same areas as Horsea, but it has a lower chance of appearing and appears in somewhat fewer areas.
In HG/SS, wild Horsea and Seadra can also be found at Seafoam Islands in Kanto during the post-game
In order to evolve Seadra into Kingdra, it must be traded while holding a Dragon Scale.
Rate: Uncommon (Pre-evolutions only) / Unavailable (in the wild)

:Phanpy: :Donphan:
Phanpy line
Version exclusives with a twist: only found in Silver, Crystal and HeartGold. In the Japanese and Korean versions of the Gen 2 games, they are exclusive to Gold instead of Silver.
In Silver, Phanpy can be found at Route 45 with a 10% chance of appearing. In Crystal, it has a 5% chance of appearing at Routes 45/46, but only in the Morning. In HeartGold, it appears on Route 45 just like in Silver, but it is also found at Mt. Silver during the post-game.
In Silver and HeartGold, Donphan can be found at Mt. Silver, Route 28 and Victory Road with a 10-30% chance of appearing. In Crystal, it is only found on Route 45 with a 10% chance to appear during Morning and a 15% chance to appear during the Day.
Rate: Uncommon

:Porygon2:
Porygon2
Not found in the wild. Neither is Porygon, but it can be bought at the Celadon Game Corner for 9999 coins (G/S & HG/SS) or 5555 coins (Crystal). But that is post-game only.
In order to evolve Porygon into Porygon2, it must be traded while holding an Up-Grade.
Porygon-Z is not found in the wild in HG/SS, it is not a part of the Johto Dex either.
Rate: Unavailable
Post-game: Elusive (Pre-evolution only) / Unavailable (in general, not found in the wild or anywhere else)

:Stantler:
Stantler
In G/S, Stantler appears at Routes 36 & 37. It has a 5% chance of appearing on Route 36 and a 30% chance to appear on Route 37.
In Crystal, it only appears on Route 37 at Night, with a 40% chance of doing so.
In HG/SS, it appears on the same routes as in G/S as well as at the Plains area in the Safari Zone, no blocks required.
Rate: Uncommon

:Smeargle:
Smeargle
Smeargle appears at the Grass outside of Ruins of Alph (requires backtracking and HMs, same as for Natu) with a 10% chance of appearing at all times except at Night in Crystal where it doesn’t appear.
In HG/SS, it also appears in the Plains area of the Safari Zone during Morning and Day, no blocks needed.
Rate: Rare

:Tyrogue: :Hitmontop:
Tyrogue/Hitmontop
Tyrogue is a baby Pokémon and not found in the wild.
In all Johto games, a Tyrogue can be obtained from Black Belt Kiyo in Mt. Mortar after beating him. This requires backtracking, several HMs, and an empty spot in the party.
In Crystal, Tyrogue has a chance to hatch from the Odd Egg. There is a 10% chance of getting a normal one and a 1% chance of getting a shiny, for a total of 11%.
None of the Hitmons are found in the wild in any of the Johto games.
Rate: Elusive

:Smoochum:
Smoochum
Baby Pokémon, not found in the wild.
Wild Jynx can be found at rates between 1 and 10% at Ice Path in all Johto games. In HG/SS, Jynx is also found at Seafoam Islands during the post-game.
In Crystal, Smoochum has a chance to hatch from the Odd Egg. There is a 14% chance of getting a regular one, and 2% chance of getting a shiny, for a total of 16%.
Rate: Elusive (Crystal) / Rare (Jynx, G/S & HG/SS)

:Elekid:
Elekid
Baby Pokémon, not found in the wild.
Electabuzz is only found at Route 10 in Kanto where it has a 5-10% chance of appearing. In HG/SS, Electabuzz is also found in the Forest area of the Safari Zone, but that requires blocks.
Electivire is not found in the wild in HG/SS, it is not a part of the Johto Dex either.
In Crystal, Elekid has a chance to hatch from the Odd Egg. There is a 12% chance of getting a regular one, and 2% chance of a shiny, for a total of 14%.
Rate: Elusive (Crystal) / Unobtainable (G/S & HG/SS)
Post-game: Rare (Electabuzz, all games)

:Magby:
Magby
Baby Pokémon, not found in the wild.
Magmar is found at the Burned Tower in G/S & HG/SS with a 5-10% chance of appearing. In Crystal, Magmar is only found at Mt. Silver, which is post-game only. In HG/SS, it can also be found at the Peak area in the Safari Zone. It has a 10% chance to appear there, but only during Morning and Day.
In Crystal, Magby has a chance to hatch from the Odd Egg. There is a 10% chance of getting a regular one, and 2% chance of a shiny, for a total of 12%.
In HG/SS, Magmortar is not found in the wild, it is not a part of the Johto Dex either.
Rate: Elusive (Crystal) / Rare (Magmar, G/S & HG/SS)

:Miltank:
Miltank
In G/S/C, Miltank has a 5% chance to appear on Routes 38 & 39, it does not appear at Night in Crystal. In HG/SS, it is the same as in G/S/C, but here it can also be found at Route 47 with a 20% chance of appearing. But in order to reach that area, you must backtrack once you have obtained Waterfall.
Rate: Rare

:Blissey:
Blissey
Not found in the wild.
In all games, Chansey has a 1% chance to appear outside of swarms on Routes 13/14/15 in Kanto. It can also be found at the Meadow area in the Safari Zone in HG/SS, but that requires blocks.
In HG/SS, Happiny is not found in the wild, and it is not a part of the Johto Dex either.
Rate: Unavailable
Post-game: Mythological (Pre-evolution, G/S/C) / Rare (Pre-evolution, HG/SS)

:Raikou: :Entei: :Suicune:
Raikou/Entei/Suicune
Legendaries. In G/S, all three are roamers. In Crystal and HG/SS, Suicune is not a roamer. The ones that roam will start roaming around Johto once they have been interacted with at the Burned Tower. They will not be roaming in Kanto, only in Johto (but not at Mt. Silver, I think).
In Crystal, Suicune is a mandatory legendary encounter at Tin Tower during the main game. If it is defeated there, it will not respawn and will be unobtainable forever.
In HG/SS, Suicune cannot be captured until the post-game since it doesn’t appear for capture until you reach Route 25 in Kanto.
Rate: Elusive (Raikou & Entei in all games, Suicune in G/S/C) / Unavailable (Suicune in HG/SS)
Post-game: Elusive (Suicune, HG/SS only)

:Larvitar: :Pupitar: :Tyranitar:
Larvitar line
In G/S, Larvitar appears in most areas of Mt. Silver with a 5% chance of appearing at all times. In Crystal, it is mostly the same as in G/S but it only appears during Morning and Day, and it has a 9% chance to appear in the deepest part of the cave.
In Crystal, Larvitar can also be bought at the Celadon Game Corner for 8888 coins.
In Crystal, Pupitar has a 1% chance of appearing in the deepest part of Mt. Silver during Morning and Day.
In HG/SS, Larvitar is found at Mt. Silver 5% of the time in all areas except for on the top, where it instead is found 10% of the time. During the main game, it can also be found in the Mountain area of the Safari Zone during Morning and Day, no blocks required.
In HG/SS, Pupitar can also be found in one area in Mt. Silver, but I’m unsure about which one, Serebii and Bulbapedia say different things. According to shiny finder's Encounter slots, it is found at “Mt. Silver 3F”. Either way, it has a 5% chance to appear in whichever area it now appears in.
Tyranitar does not appear in the wild in any of the Johto games.
Rate: Unavailable (G/S/C) / Rare (HG/SS)
Post-game: Rare (G/S/C)

:Lugia:
Lugia
Legendary. Requires the Silver Wing in order to appear.
In all games, it can be found at the bottom of the Whirl Islands. In Silver and SoulSilver, it is available before beating the game as you get the Silver Wing during the main story, after beating Team Rocket at the Radio Tower in Goldenrod. In SoulSilver, Lugia is a mandatory encounter and must be caught/defeated in order to progress with the game (if defeated, it will respawn during the post-game). In Silver, it is 100% optional.
In Gold, Crystal and HeartGold, it is only available during the post-game since you receive the Silver Wing from an NPC in Pewter City in those games.
Rate: Elusive (Silver & SoulSilver)
Post-game: Elusive (Gold, Crystal & HeartGold)

:Ho-Oh:
Ho-Oh
Legendary. Requires the Rainbow Wing in order to appear.
In all games, it can be found at the top of the Tin/Bell Tower. In Gold and HeartGold, it is available before beating the game as you get the Rainbow Wing during the main story, after beating Team Rocket at the Radio Tower in Goldenrod. In HeartGold, it is a mandatory encounter and must be caught/defeated in order to progress with the game (if defeated, it will respawn during the post-game). In Gold, it is 100% optional.
In Silver, Crystal and SoulSilver, it is only available during the post-game. In Silver and SoulSilver, the Rainbow Wing is obtained from an NPC in Pewter City.
In Crystal, you get the Rainbow Wing from the Wise Trio Sages at Tin Tower after catching Raikou, Suicune and Entei and beating the main game. The three legendary beasts must be present in the party or the Pokémon Storage System with the same OT/ID as the player in order to obtain the Rainbow Wing.
Rate: Elusive (Gold & HeartGold)
Post-game: Elusive (Silver, Crystal & SoulSilver)

:Celebi:
Celebi
Mythical.
In the original G/S/C, VC G/S as well as HG/SS, it is not available normally and must be obtained through an event. In VC Crystal only, it can be found in Ilex Forest after beating the main game.
Rate: Unavailable outside of Events (Original G/S/C, VC G/S & HG/SS)
Post-game: Elusive (VC Crystal only)
That’s the raw statistics.

Next, I wanted to take a look at how the appearance rates for certain Pokémon varies between the different Johto games. This includes both the main game and the post-game.

The following Pokémon are more common or easier to find in G/S/C than in HG/SS: The Chinchou line, Shuckle, Qwilfish, Corsola, the Remoraid line (G/S only) and Suicune.
Interestingly, these are mostly Pokémon obtained through fishing, as well as Shuckle and Suicune.
The Chinchou line and Corsola are only more common in G/S/C during the main game since HG/SS lowered their rates for the Good Rod for some unknown reason. Finding them with the Super Rod during the post-game is easier in all Johto games.
Remoraid is much easier to find in G/S if you can get it to Swarm, otherwise it is not possible to find at all before the post-game. Even during the post-game, it is more common than in HG/SS outside of Swarms. It is more common in HG/SS during swarms, but more common in G/S outside of swarms.
Qwilfish is post-game only outside of Swarms in G/S/C, but it has a higher chance to appear outside of Swarms. It can also be found through Swarms at high rates with all Rods. In comparison, it only has a 2% chance to appear in HG/SS, and Swarms in those games are post-game only.
Shuckle does for some reason appear in fewer areas in HG/SS. No idea why. It is marginally more common in G/S/C due to being found in more areas.
Suicune is mentioned here because it can be obtained before the post-game in G/S/C, but not in HG/SS. Other than that, I’d say it is easier to catch in Crystal and HG/SS compared to in G/S since it is not a roamer in the former games.

The following are easier to find in G/S/C than in HG/SS, but only during Swarms: Yanma, Qwilfish, Remoraid (G/S only), Snubbull (G/S only), Marill (G/S only).
Those are the Swarming Pokémon in Johto. Thanks to Swarms being available before the post-game in G/S/C, it allows you to get them easier before beating the game, but only if you can trigger a Swarm.
Yanma gets straight up more common.
Qwilfish and Remoraid gets more common through fishing and can be found with all Rods.
Snubbull and Marill are only Swarming in G/S as they are more common in Crystal to start with. Remoraid is not found in Crystal at all, independent of Swarms.
Note that Dunsparce is still more common in HG/SS even without a Swarm. This is because it has a 90% chance to appear with Rock Smash in the remakes.

The following Pokémon are more common or easier to find in Crystal than in G/S or HG/SS: The Snubbull line, Sneasel, the Houndour line, Porygon2 and Celebi (VC Crystal only).
Snubbull is notably way more common in Crystal than in any of the other Johto games. I think it is one of the best examples of how the Pokémon distribution in Crystal changed something for the better.
Sneasel is still rare in Crystal, but it is at least obtainable before the post-game, unlike in G/S & HG/SS. Sneasel is more common in HG/SS than in G/S during the post-game though.
Houndour is only available during the post-game in all Johto games, but it is more common in Crystal than in the others.
Porygon2 is slightly easier to get in Crystal because buying a Porygon here requires 5555 coins compared to 9999 coins in G/S & HG/SS.
For VC Crystal only, Celebi is easier to get by default since it can actually be obtained without an event of any sort.

The following are easier to obtain in Crystal only because of the Odd Egg: Pichu, Cleffa, Igglybuff, Tyrogue, Smoochum, Elekid, Magby.
Those are all the baby Pokémon in Johto, except for Togepi which is easy to obtain anyway. While they are still a bit elusive, you are at least guaranteed to get one of them from the Odd Egg. This is notable because none of them are found in the wild, and only Tyrogue is obtainable otherwise outside of breeding. So I think Crystal definitely has an edge here, it lets you obtain a baby Pokémon which then evolves into something that might not be obtainable until considerably later, or until the post-game in some of the cases.
One thing to note about the Odd Egg is that in the Japanese version of Crystal, it was only accessible from an event through the Mobile System GB (which doesn’t exist in the international versions). Since all of the events for the MSGB are now long gone (the service closed in December 2002 according to Bulbapedia) and it isn’t present in the VC version of Japanese Crystal, it means that players of Japanese Crystal can no longer obtain the Odd Egg.

The following Pokémon are easier or more common in Crystal and HG/SS than in G/S: The Marill line.
Note that Marill is the most common in Crystal, followed by HG/SS (only because of the Safari Zone) and lastly G/S. Still, I felt that it was at least worth mentioning. However, Marill does get more common in G/S than in HG/SS if you can trigger a Swarm for it.

The following Pokémon are more common or easier to find in HG/SS than in G/S/C: Murkrow, Misdreavus, Dunsparce, Smeargle, Miltank, Larvitar, Steelix, Slugma, Blissey (Chansey), Clefairy (to breed a Cleffa) and Jigglypuff (to breed an Igglybuff).
Of these, Murkrow, Misdreavus and Larvitar are only found in the Safari Zone during the main game while they are still as uncommon in the originals during the post-game.
Dunsparce is only more common through Rock Smash.
While Steelix is available in the wild in HG/SS, it only has a 2% chance of appearing before the post-game.
Smeargle is somewhat more common in HG/SS as it appears in the Safari Zone in addition to in the grass outside of Ruins of Alph, so it is only a minor difference.
Miltank is marginally more common as it can be found in the grass on Route 48, but that requires backtracking very late in the game (once you have Waterfall) so I don’t think it makes that much of a difference.
Slugma is one of the three Pokémon that can be obtained from the special gift egg in Violet City. Out of them, it is the only one that really matters as Mareep and Wooper can both be found in the wild in nearby areas, while Slugma is otherwise not found until the post-game.
Jigglypuff is somewhat easier to find in HG/SS where it only appears in the Safari Zone at a higher rate than in G/S/C (40%, compared to 5% in G/S/C). But at the same time, it is found earlier in G/S/C so I’m not really sure if it makes a difference.
Clefairy is found earlier in HG/SS only because of the Safari Zone, it is otherwise post-game only just like in G/S/C.
Chansey is still post-game only in HG/SS, but it is somewhat easier to find here thanks to Swarms and making an appearance in the Safari Zone.

The following Pokémon is notably harder to get in Crystal than in G/S or HG/SS: Ho-Oh.
It is only because of the very heavy requirements needed to get Ho-Oh in Crystal compared to getting it in G/S or HG/SS. Personally, I never caught Ho-Oh in Crystal because of the requirements needed. I strongly dislike the concept of roaming legendaries, so I never caught both Entei and Raikou in Crystal. In fact, I’m not even sure if I caught one of them for that matter.

...

Before I went through the encounter slots and the availability for all the Johto Pokémon, I expected Crystal to have the overall better availability. But now that I look back at everything after getting the answer, I feel that Crystal being superior isn’t really the case. While there are some Johto Pokémon that are easier to find or available earlier in Crystal (or G/S/C on the whole) than in HG/SS, there are also some that are easier to find or available earlier in HG/SS than in G/S/C. Crystal only really wins if we include the Odd Egg. Otherwise, the games have different availability for certain Pokémon, but they are pretty even in the end. That said, I still think HG/SS failed because they didn’t really improve upon G/S/C, they didn’t do any significant changes on the whole. While they made some Pokémon easier to find, they made some others harder to find at the same time, which means they didn’t really change things for the better on the whole. It is more like they took one step forward and one step back at the same time.

If we look at the general availability of the Johto Pokémon in the Johto games, it is disheartening to see how few of them are actually common. Only a total of 7 Johto Pokémon are common, which are the Hoothoot, Wooper and Hoppip lines. It could also be said that Politoed and Crobat are common, but only if we count their pre-evolutions as they themselves are not available in the wild in the Johto games. But no matter how we count, the fact stands that less than 10% of the Johto Pokémon are common in their own region and games. While I don’t have the numbers and percentages for the other regions, it feels like very little. It should have been higher.

In comparison, there are a lot of Pokémon that are uncommon, rare, mythological, elusive or even unavailable until the post-game.

Even if we don’t include the starters and legendaries, there are still several Johto Pokémon that are elusive. Togepi, Sudowoodo, Tyrogue, the Johto Eeveelutions, Porygon2, Slugma in HG/SS as well as most of the Baby Pokémon in Crystal (which somewhat ironically generally makes them easier to get than in G/S or HG/SS). That’s exactly 10%, 16% if we include the Odd Egg Baby Pokémon, and 31% if we do include the starters, legendaries and Celebi! That’s almost a third of the Johto Pokémon. Once again, it feels like a very large amount in terms of percentage.

There are also a lot of Pokémon that are rare or mythological. While I think it is okay for every region and every game to have one or a few really rare Pokémon (such as Chimecho in Hoenn, Munchlax in Sinnoh or Cryogonal in Unova), I think Johto has way too many. Chinchou/Lanturn, Marill/Azumarill, Shuckle, Sneasel, Corsola, Mantine, Skarmory, Smeargle, Yanma, Dunsparce, Snubbull/Granbull, Qwilfish and Remoraid/Octillery are all rare or mythological in at least one Johto game. That’s 17% of the Johto Pokémon.

Then there’s also the ones that are unavailable until the post-game in at least one Johto game: Murkrow, Pichu, Cleffa, Misdreavus, Qwilfish, Sneasel, Slugma, Elekid, Houndour/Houndoom, Blissey and Larvitar/Pupitar/Tyranitar. That’s 14%, which is also quite a lot. I don't think any other region has that many. In comparison, S/M Alola has several that are unavailable until the post-game, but these are all legendaries, UBs and mythicals, not a single regular Pokémon.

As a disclaimer, I know that some of these statistics are semi-incorrect because some Johto Pokémon appear in one or more of these (for instance, Porygon2 is both elusive and unavailable until the post-game).

Another issue with the Johto games is that while the Johto Pokémon are generally uncommon or rare in Johto, the Kanto Pokémon are very common. This is annoying because they have basically taken over the region, the odds of finding a Kanto Pokémon in Johto is generally much higher than finding a Johto Pokémon.

Looking at the Johto Pokédex/Pokémon on the whole, I think another big issue is that it is fractured. The Johto Pokémon rely too much on Pokémon from other regions, most notably Kanto and Sinnoh. The Johto Pokémon can never feel complete on their own because they would be missing a lot of evolutions and pre-evolutions if they were on their own without any of their evolutionary relatives from the other regions. I think this is very notable in HG/SS where a large amount of the evos and pre-evos of the Johto Pokémon are not in the regional Dex and can’t be obtained until the post-game outside of trades, which makes the Johto Dex feel incomplete. But even without that, getting the Johto Pokémon themselves can also be tricky. The ones that evolve from a Pokémon from another region often require some complicated method such as Friendship or the use of an item that’s often hard to obtain (and sometimes requires trade too). While the Baby Pokémon are generally not found in the wild, but their evolved forms are. And since the final evolution is generally what most players strive for, there’s no need to obtain the Baby Pokémon if you can find the evolved form in the wild.

While the Sinnoh part of the Pokédex is also heavily fractured, I think the Sinnoh games have the edge over Johto as I feel that Platinum did a way better job at including and focusing on all the Sinnoh Pokémon and their evolutionary relatives from the other regions, which is one of the many things I think HG/SS failed at.

In comparison to Johto and Sinnoh, the other regions are generally not as fractured. Except for Kanto, I guess. It could stand on its own in the past but it has gotten very fractured over the years, I think I would find it very notable if I were to play LGP/E today, but even with that I’d say it is a slight problem in FR/LG as well. As for the others, Hoenn and Unova can mostly stand on their own as they have very few Pokémon related to Pokémon from other regions. The same goes for Kalos, Alola and Galar, but they have way too few Pokémon in total to the point that they can’t really stand on their own in the end anyway.

So, to summarize: In general, most Johto Pokémon are ranging between uncommon and rare in their own region, if they are even available in it at all. Personally, I think there is no reason for the majority of them to be uncommon or rare in their own region. That feels like bad game design. It would have been okay if it had been the case for just a few of the Johto Pokémon since that happens in every other region as well, but I think it just happens in too many cases for the Johto Pokémon. That’s a really big shame.

And that’s it for Johto Syndrome in Johto. If anyone wants to add something more to all of this or comment on anything here, feel free to do so. And if anyone wants to make an analysis like this for any other region, feel free to do so as well. I am personally not going to do it. Thanks for reading.
 
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I am not a big fan of the Johto games. They are my least favorites in the series without a doubt, especially HG/SS which are my very least favorites out of all the main series Pokémon games.

That said, I like the Johto Pokémon. While they are far from my favorites (in fact, they are my second least favorites on the whole), I still like them a lot. I think there are many great Johto Pokémon.

However, one thing I really don’t like is this: The fact that the majority of the Johto Pokémon are mostly uncommon or rare in the Johto region and the Johto games. I, along with many other players, consider this to be a big issue with the Johto games. So here’s a post about this phenomenon, which has been given the fan term “Johto Syndrome” since it started in the Johto games and is very prominent there even if it applies to the other regions as well, but to different (usually smaller) extents.

I think this is the right thread for this post. While most of this is just objective facts, it will be done in a rather negative context. I also have some of my own opinions to add as well, mostly towards the end. Those are mostly negative. So that’s why I’m posting this here.


Johto Syndrome in Johto – The complete breakdown

How hard is it to find all of the Johto Pokémon in the Johto games? I have the answer. I have gone through all 100 Johto Pokémon and checked how they appear in the five different Johto games. I mostly focused on how they appear in Johto itself, but I have included how they appear in Kanto as well. The descriptions vary a bit depending on how much details I felt were necessary. For the few Pokémon that are really common, I didn’t feel that there was any need to go into any super detailed description of where to find them.

Worth noting is that Johto has the smallest amount of Pokémon from the regions with a big number of Pokémon. It has exactly 100 Pokémon, putting it below Generations 1 and 3-5, but above Generations 6-8. I wanted to mention that somewhere but wasn’t sure where, so I put it here.

A few years ago, Codraroll made a post about Johto Syndrome in Alola (only for S/M, because US/UM did not exist at that time). That post can be found here. It was one of the inspirations for me to make this, but my overall structure is a bit different and I go a bit more into more details in this post.

For the Pokémon that evolve from a Pokémon from another region, as well as the Baby Pokémon, I have listed their evolutionary relatives as well in case the actual Johto Pokémon in question is not found anywhere in the games.

I have used Serebii and Bulbapedia as my sources for everything. If I have gotten anything wrong, it might be because they have given me the wrong information, or I might have screwed up things on my own. If you notice any mistakes or anything that’s missing, please let me know and I’ll fix it!

For HG/SS, I have not included the Pokéwalker, because I feel it would be too complicated, and I don’t have a lot of experience with it myself so I don’t really know how it works. However, I have included the Safari Zone. Note that blocks in the Safari Zone are post-game only, so if blocks are listed, it means that the Pokémon in question can only be found there during the post-game. If it says that no blocks are needed, it can be found there during the main game.

In HG/SS, it is also possible to get a Wooper, Mareep and Slugma from a Gift Egg if you insert a special code to an NPC in Violet City. While this method is a bit complicated, I have still included it. To get the gift egg, you need your Trainer ID from the game, then you have to insert it here and get the right codes. From what I remember, it is possible to get all three of these Pokémon through this method.

Regarding Swarms, they are post-game only in HG/SS, but I don’t know about G/S/C. I have assumed that they are post-game only in G/S/C as well, but this may be incorrect and might thus affect the rarity of certain swarm Pokémon. For fishing, the Old and Good Rods can be obtained during the main game, but the Super Rod is post-game only. This goes for all Johto games.

Some Johto Pokémon require an item in order to evolve, I decided to make a separate list for all of these items and where to find them, as well as some comments regarding that. Find it below.
:Sun Stone:
Sun Stone
In G/S/C, the only way to get a Sun Stone is through winning first place in the Bug Catching Contest in the National Park, which is held on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays.
In HG/SS, it can be obtained in the same way, but through other means as well. Here, it can also be obtained as a gift from Camper Tanner on Route 13 (post-game only), it can be purchased from the Pokéathlon Dome for a cost of 3000 points (Sundays, Mondays and Fridays, post-game only), it can be found as a hold item on wild Solrock (Safari Zone, post-game only, there’s a 5% chance of them holding one) or through Pickup (4% chance to find one for levels 31-50, 10% chance for levels 51-100).

:King’s Rock:
King’s Rock
In all Johto games, a King’s Rock can be found at B1F in Slowpoke Well, reaching it requires Surf.
In Crystal, it can also be obtained through Thief as it is being held by Cooltrainer Gaven's Kingler on Route 26, from the second rematch and onwards.
In HG/SS, it can also be obtained through Pickup (levels 11-30, 1% chance), or from the Pokéathlon Dome for 3000 points (only on Sundays before beating the game, but on Mondays and Thursdays too during the post-game).
It can also be obtained as a hold item from some wild Pokémon: Slowpoke and Poliwhirl in G/S/C has a 2% chance of holding one, while Slowbro and Poliwhirl in HG/SS has a 5% chance of holding one.

:Metal Coat:
Metal Coat
In all Johto games, a Metal Coat can be obtained on the SS. Aqua, as a gift from a gentleman after finding his granddaughter. But that is post-game only.
In Crystal and HG/SS, a Metal Coat is also held by the Magneton you get from the in-game trade at the Power Plant (trading for it requires a Dugtrio), which is also post-game only.
In HG/SS, it is also possible to get a Metal Coat from the Pokéathlon Dome for 2500 points. It can only be purchased on Fridays before beating the game, but on Saturdays and Tuesdays as well during the post-game. A Metal Coat can also be found as a hold item on various wild Pokémon. In G/S/C, wild Magnemite has a 2% chance of holding one. In HG/SS, wild Magnemite, Magneton, Steelix, Beldum, Metang and Bronzor all have a 5% chance of holding one. Out of these, only Magnemite/Magneton and Steelix can be found in the wild before the post-game.

:Up-Grade:
Up-Grade
In all Johto games, the only way to obtain an Up-Grade is from an NPC at Silph Co. during the post-game.

:Dragon Scale:
Dragon Scale
In all Johto games, a Dragon Scale can be found at Mt. Mortar, Surf and Waterfall are required in order to get it. In HG/SS, it can also be bought at the Pokéathlon Dome for 2500 Points on Wednesdays and Fridays, but only during the post-game. It also appears as an hold item on wild Pokémon in all Johto games. It is held by wild Horsea, Seadra, Dratini, and Dragonair. They all have a 2% chance of holding one in G/S/C, and a 5% chance to hold one in HG/SS.

Looking at all of these items, they are all fairly hard to obtain during the main game. Getting a Sun Stone requires you to win the Bug Catching Contest, or from Pickup in HG/SS (with very low odds of getting one). The Dragon Scale is available very late and requires backtracking. The King’s Rock also requires backtracking but is a bit easier to obtain. The Metal Coat is only obtainable as a hold item on wild Pokémon in G/S/C, HG/SS also gives the option to get one from the Pokéathlon but otherwise it is post-game only. And the Up-Grade is post-game only in all Johto games.
Next, the Pokémon themselves. Here’s how I have rated the availability of the Johto Pokémon, in 6 different stages:
Common: Pokémon which are found at high rates and in many areas.
Uncommon: One of the three following categories:
1. Pokémon which are found at high rates but only in one or a few areas.
2. Pokémon which are found in many areas but at lower rates.
3. Pokémon which are found in many areas and/or has high rates to appear, but require a special method to appear (such as Headbutt, Rock Smash or Fishing).
Rare: Pokémon which are only found in one or a few areas and at an even lower rate, 4-10%.
Mythological: Pokémon which are only found in one area (or sometimes more than one) and at a considerably lower rate, 1-3%.
Elusive: Pokémon which can only be obtained once throughout the games apart from breeding or trade.
Unobtainable: Pokémon that are not available until the post-game. I have still listed the post-game availability for all of the Pokémon that are only found during the post-game in at least one Johto game. Otherwise, the rates are for the main game only. Celebi is a special case here as it is mostly unobtainable outside of events (except for in VC Crystal) and has thus been listed as such.

That should be enough as an intro. Now, let us begin.
:Chikorita: :Bayleef: :Meganium: :Cyndaquil: :Quilava: :Typhlosion: :Totodile: :Croconaw: :Feraligatr:
Chikorita/Cyndaquil/Totodile lines
Starters. Like in all other Pokémon games, you are guaranteed to get one of them in the beginning of the game, but you only get one and have to trade in order to get the others. And like in almost every other Pokémon game, the base forms of the starters and their evolved forms cannot be found in the wild in any of the Johto games.
Rate: Elusive

:Sentret: :Furret:
Sentret line
Sentret can be found on Route 29 in all games with a 40% chance of appearing during Morning and Day. In Crystal, it can also be found on Route 43 with a 30% chance of appearing during Morning and Day. In HG/SS, it can be found in the following areas in the Safari Zone: Wetland during Morning and Day, Swamp at all times. No blocks required. Sentret can also be found on Route 1 in Kanto in all games, it has a 20% chance of appearing there during Morning and Day.
In Crystal, Furret can be found on Route 43 during Morning and Day with a 15% chance of appearing. It is also found on Kanto Route 1 in all games, as well as in the Wetland and Swamp areas in the Safari Zone in HG/SS, but that requires blocks.
Rate: Uncommon

:Hoothoot: :Noctowl:
Hoothoot line
Hoothoot can be found in a ton of locations at varying encounter rates. It is more common in Crystal & HG/SS than in G/S. However, it can only be found at Night when it comes to regular encounters. In Crystal and HG/SS, Hoothoot can also be found through Headbutt in various areas, during all times of day.
Noctowl is found at Night in various areas just like Hoothoot. But it is not found in as many areas as Hoothoot, nor is it as common. It is found in more areas in Crystal than in G/S & HG/SS. Like with Hoothoot, it can also be found through Headbutt, but only in Ilex Forest in Crystal, at all times of day.
Rate: Common

:Ledyba: :Ledian:
Ledyba line
Version exclusive, only found in Silver, Crystal and SoulSilver.
Ledyba can be found in a few locations with a 30-40% chance of appearing, but only in the Morning except for at Kanto Route 2 in SoulSilver where it has a 4% chance to appear during the Day as well. In Crystal and SoulSilver, it can also be found through Headbutt at various areas at all times of day.
Ledian has a 5% chance of appearing at Route 2 during the Morning in Silver & Crystal, but a 9% chance in SoulSilver. In Crystal, Ledian also has a 5% chance of appearing at Route 37 in the Morning. In SoulSilver, Ledian can also be found through Headbutt in Viridian Forest in the Morning, with a 10% chance of appearing.
Rate: Uncommon

:Spinarak: :Ariados:
Spinarak line
Version exclusive, only found in Gold, Crystal and HeartGold.
Spinarak and Ariados have generally the same encounter rates as Ledyba and Ledian, the difference is that they are only found during the Night as opposed to in the Morning. Ariados is slightly less common on Kanto Route 2 in HeartGold compared to Ledian in SoulSilver, it has a 5% chance to appear there compared to Ledian’s 9%.
Rate: Uncommon

:Crobat:
Crobat
Not found in the wild in any of the Johto games.
Zubat can be found in a ton of locations in all Johto games and is common in the majority of them. The same goes for Golbat even if it is somewhat more uncommon than Zubat. Golbat evolves into Crobat through Friendship, which can be difficult and take a long time to get done.
Rate: Common (Pre-evolutions only)

:Chinchou: :Lanturn:
Chinchou line
Chinchou can be found through fishing at various places. It is available with both the Good Rod and the Super Rod.
Chinchou is more common with the Good Rod in G/S/C compared to in HG/SS. It has a 20% to appear in G/S/C, but only a 7% chance in HG/SS. However, it the other way around with the Super Rod as it has a 40% chance to appear with it in G/S/C but a 60% chance in HG/SS.
Lanturn can also be found through fishing, but only with the Super Rod. It is also rarer than Chinchou as it has a 10% chance of appearing in G/S/C, and a 3% chance in HG/SS.
Rate: Uncommon (G/S/C) / Rare (HG/SS)

:Pichu:
Pichu
Baby Pokémon, not found in the wild.
Wild Pikachu can be found at Route 2 in G/S/C and in Viridian Forest in HG/SS, but that is post-game only.
Raichu is not found in the wild at all in any Johto game.
In Crystal, Pichu can hatch from the Odd Egg, the odds of getting one is 9% (8% chance of a regular, 1% chance of a shiny).
In Crystal, Pikachu can also be bought from the Celadon Game Corner for 2222 coins, but that is also post-game only.
In HG/SS, you can also get a (French) Pikachu from a trade with Lt. Surge during the post-game if you give him another Pikachu. So that doesn’t really help.
In HG/SS only, a Spiky-Eared Pichu can be obtained at Ilex Forest if you have the Event Pikachu-colored (Shiny) Pichu.
Rate: Elusive (Crystal)
Post-game: Rare (Pikachu, G/S & HG/SS)

:Cleffa:
Cleffa
Baby Pokémon, not found in the wild.
Clefairy can be found in Mt. Moon in all games. It has a 5% chance to appear in G/S and HG/SS at all times. The same mostly goes for Crystal, but here it has a 25% to appear during Night at 1F.
It can also be found at night in the Meadow area in the Safari Zone in HG/SS with a 10% chance of appearing, blocks are not required, but they can be used to increase the levels of the Clefairy from 17 to 42.
In Crystal, Cleffa can hatch from the Odd Egg, with a 19% chance of getting one (16% for a regular, 3% for a shiny).
Clefable is not found in the wild in any of the Johto games.
Rate: Elusive (Crystal) / Rare (Clefairy, HG/SS)
Post-game: Rare (Clefairy, G/S)

:Igglybuff:
Igglybuff
Baby Pokémon, not found in the wild.
In G/S, Jigglypuff is found on Route 46, with a 5% chance of appearing. In Crystal, it can be found at routes 34/35 with a 5% chance of appearing. In HG/SS, Jigglypuff can be found at the Meadow and Swamp areas at the Safari Zone with a 40% chance of appearing, but it is not found at Night at the Swamp area. No blocks required.
During the post-game, Jigglypuff is also found at Routes 3/4 in G/S and HG/SS, while it is found at Routes 5/6/7 in Crystal.
In Crystal, Igglybuff can hatch from the Odd Egg, with a 19% chance of getting one (16% for regular, 3% for shiny).
Wigglytuff is not found in the wild in any of the Johto games.
Rate: Elusive (Crystal) / Rare (Jigglypuff, G/S) / Uncommon (Jigglypuff, HG/SS)

:Togepi: :Togetic:
Togepi/Togetic
Not found in the wild.
In all Johto games, the only way to get a Togepi is to hatch the Egg you get from Professor Elm’s assistant during the story. Similar to the starters, you are guaranteed to get a Togepi, but you only get one.
Togetic is not found in the wild, so it has to be evolved from Togepi. It evolves through Friendship, which can be difficult and take a long time to get done.
Togekiss is not found in the wild in HG/SS, it is not in the Johto Dex either.
Rate: Elusive

:Natu: :Xatu:
Natu line
Natu has a 90% chance to appear in the grass outside of Ruins of Alph, but in order to get there, you must backtrack through Union Cave after getting Surf and Strength.
Xatu is not found in the wild, but in Crystal and HG/SS, a Xatu can be obtained through an in-game trade with an NPC in Pewter City during the post-game, said trade requires a Haunter.
Rate: Uncommon

:Mareep: :Flaaffy: :Ampharos:
Mareep line
Version exclusive, only found in G/S and HG/SS.
In all of these games, Mareep can be found at Routes 32, 42 and 43. It is less common on Route 43, as well as less common during Night at Routes 32 and 43. It is more common in Silver and SoulSilver on Route 42 (50% chance to appear, as opposed to 30% in Gold and HeartGold).
In HG/SS, Mareep can also be found at the Rocky Beach area in the Safari Zone, but that requires blocks.
Flaaffy can be found at Routes 42/43, with a 10% chance of appearing at Route 42 and a 30/40% chance on Route 43.
Ampharos is not found in the wild in any of the Johto games.
In HG/SS, you can also get a Mareep from a Gift Egg if you input a special code to a person in Violet City, see the intro for instructions.
Rate: Uncommon

:Bellossom:
Bellossom
Not found in the wild.
Oddish can be found at Ilex Forest during the Night with a 60% chance of appearing in G/S & HG/SS, 50% in Crystal. In Kanto, it is found at Routes 5/6/24/25 in G/S & HG/SS, but only on Routes 24/25 in Crystal. In HG/SS, wild Oddish can also be found in the Marshland area in the Safari Zone during the Night with a 5% chance of appearing, no blocks needed.
Wild Gloom can be found at Route 5 in G/S, Route 24 in Crystal, Routes 47/48, 5/6 and in the Marshland area in the Safari Zone in HG/SS. No blocks needed, but using them will increase the level of Gloom and might make it more or less common. Like with Oddish, it only appears during the Night in all games and areas except for with blocks in the Safari Zone.
To evolve Gloom into Bellossom, a Sun Stone is required.
Rate: Uncommon (Pre-evolutions only)

:Marill: :Azumarill:
Marill line
In G/S and HG/SS, Marill has a 1% chance to appear at Mt. Mortar outside of Swarms.
In Crystal, Marill is found at higher rates (5-30%) at both Mt. Mortar and Route 42, with Surf giving the highest chance of finding one.
In HG/SS, Marill is also found at the Meadow area in the Safari Zone, either through Surf or in the grass at Night, no blocks needed.
Azumarill is not found in the wild in any of the Johto games.
In HG/SS, Azurill is not a part of the Johto Dex. It can be found in the wild at the Savannah area in the Safari Zone, but that requires blocks.
Rate: Mythological (G/S) / Uncommon (Crystal) / Rare (HG/SS)

:Sudowoodo:
Sudowoodo
In all Johto games, Sudowoodo appears as a roadblock on Route 36, it can be battled once you get the Squirtbottle. It must be caught or defeated in order to progress, but you only get to face one in the entire game.
In HG/SS, Bonsly is not found in the wild, it is not a part of the Johto Dex either.
Rate: Elusive

:Politoed:
Politoed
Not found in the wild.
Wild Poliwag can be found in many different locations in all Johto games, both through Surfing and fishing (with all rods) or even in grass in some areas. Poliwhirl is similar, it can also be found in many areas, but in fewer than Poliwag. It is also generally less common.
In order to make Poliwhirl evolve into Politoed, it needs to be traded while holding a King’s Rock.
Rate: Common (Pre-evolutions only)

:Hoppip: :Skiploom: :Jumpluff:
Hoppip line
Hoppip can be found on some routes in both Johto and Kanto with a varying chance of appearing, between 5-35%. In Crystal, it is found on more routes in Johto but has lower encounter rates. In HG/SS, it is also found on Route 48 and in the Meadow area in the Safari Zone, no blocks required.
Skiploom is found on Route 14 in all games, and the Meadow area in the Safari Zone in HG/SS, no blocks needed but they can increase its level and possibly change its rate of appearance.
Jumpluff is not found in the wild in G/S/C. In HG/SS, it can be found in the Marshland area in the Safari Zone, but that requires blocks.
Rate: Common

:Aipom:
Aipom
Wild Aipom can be found in many areas in all Johto games, but only through Headbutt. It has a 20% chance of appearing in G/S/C and a 20-30% chance of appearing in HG/SS.
Ambipom is not found in the wild in HG/SS.
Rate: Uncommon

:Sunkern: :Sunflora:
Sunkern line
Sunkern is found in the National Park with a 25% chance of appearing, and at Route 24 in Kanto with a 30% chance of appearing. It only appears during the Day. It also appears in the Meadow area in the Safari Zone in HG/SS, no blocks required.
Sunflora is not found in the wild in any of the Johto games.
To evolve Sunkern into Sunflora, a Sun Stone is required.
Rate: Uncommon

:Yanma:
Yanma
In all Johto games, Yanma is found at Route 35 with a 1% chance of appearing outside of Swarms. This is a Pokémon that is the very definition of Johto Syndrome.
In HG/SS, Yanmega is not found in the wild.
Rate: Mythological

:Wooper: :Quagsire:
Wooper line
Wooper can be found through Surfing in Union Cave or at Ruins of Alph in G/S/C, as well as in the Grass in Route 32. It has a higher chance of appearing at Night in G/S, while it only appears at Night in Crystal. In Crystal, it also appears as an overworld encounter at Night at the Grass in the outside area of Ruins of Alph, and on the floor inside of Union Cave.
In HG/SS, Wooper appears in the grass in Route 32 at Night, through Surfing at Ruins of Alph or in Union Cave, or through Surfing at Cliff Edge Gate and as a floor encounter at Cliff Cave. It also appears in the Meadow, Wetland and Marshland areas in the Safari Zone during Night, no blocks needed.
Quagsire can be found in the wild as well, it actually appears in more areas than Wooper and has a higher chance of appearing as well.
In HG/SS, you can also get a Wooper from a Gift Egg if you input a special code to a person in Violet City, see the intro for instructions.
Rate: Common

:Espeon: :Umbreon:
Espeon/Umbreon
No members of the Eevee line can be found in the wild in any of the Johto games.
In all Johto games, Eevee is a Gift Pokemon you can receive from Bill in Goldenrod City.
Both Espeon and Umbreon evolve through Friendship, which can be hard and take a long time to get done. Eevee evolves into Espeon during Morning and Day, and into Umbreon during the Night.
In G/S and HG/SS, you can buy Eevee from the Celadon Game Corner in the post-game for 6666 coins.
Rate: Elusive

:Murkrow:
Murkrow
In G/S/C, Murkrow can be found at Routes 7 & 16/18 at Night. In HG/SS, it is found at Routes 7 & 16 during the Night and at the Swamp area of the Safari Zone, no blocks needed but they do make it somewhat more common.
Honchkrow is not found in the wild in HG/SS, it is not a part of the Johto Dex either.
Rate: Rare (HG/SS)
Post-game: Rare (G/S/C)

:Slowking:
Slowking
Not found in the wild.
Slowpoke is found in Slowpoke Well and Tohjo falls in all Johto games. In Slowpoke Well, it has a 15% chance of appearing on the floor and 90-100% chance to appear through Surfing. In Tohjo Falls, it has a 15% chance to appear on the floor and 30% chance to appear through Surfing. In HG/SS, Slowpoke is also found at Rocky Beach area in the Safari Zone, no blocks needed.
In order to make Slowpoke evolve into Slowking, it needs to be traded while holding a King’s Rock.
Rate: Uncommon (Pre-evolution only)

:Misdreavus:
Misdreavus
In G/S/C, it is only found at Mt. Silver, which is post-game only and the very last area you get to in the games. In HG/SS, it is found at Mt. Silver but also in Cliff Cave with a 5% chance to appear at Night. It also appears in the Forest area of the Safari Zone during Morning and Day with a 15% chance to appear, no blocks required.
In HG/SS, Mismagius is not found in the wild. It is not a part of the Johto Dex either.
Rate: Uncommon (HG/SS)
Post-game: Rare (G/S/C)

:Unown-U: :Unown-N: :Unown-O: :Unown-W: :Unown-N:
Unown
In all Johto games, Unown can be found inside of the Ruins of Alph after at least one of the slide puzzles have been completed, doesn’t matter which one. Unown has a 100% chance to appear here, but it is the only area in the games where it can be found.
Rate: Uncommon

:Wobbuffet:
Wobbuffet
In G/S/C, Wobbuffet is only found in the Route 45 part of Dark Cave, with a 15% chance of appearing. In Crystal, you can also get it from the Game Corner in Goldenrod City for 1500 Coins.
In HG/SS, it also appears in the Peak area of the Safari Zone during the Night, no blocks needed. In the post-game, it can also be found in Cerulean Cave.
In HG/SS, Wynaut is not found in the wild, nor is it a part of the Johto Dex.
Rate: Uncommon

:Girafarig:
Girafarig
Version exclusive, only appears in G/S & HG/SS.
In G/S, it only appears at Route 43 where it has a 30% chance of appearing.
It is the same in HG/SS, but here it also appears at Route 48 with a 5% chance of appearing, and in the Plains area in the Safari Zone with a 10% chance to appear, no blocks needed.
Rate: Uncommon

:Pineco: :Forretress:
Pineco line
Pineco appears in many areas, but only through Headbutt. In all Johto games, there is a 30% chance to find one from all of the trees that it can appear from.
Forretress does not appear in the wild in any of the Johto games.
Rate: Uncommon

:Dunsparce:
Dunsparce
Dunsparce only appears in Dark Cave, on the Route 31 side. It has a 1% chance to appear as a regular encounter outside of Swarms, but a 90% chance through Rock Smash in HG/SS.
Rate: Mythological (G/S/C) / Uncommon (HG/SS)

:Gligar:
Gligar
Version exclusive, only appears in Gold, Crystal and HeartGold.
It has a 20% chance to appear on Route 45 in these games.
Gliscor is not found in the wild in HG/SS, it is not a part of the Johto Dex either.
Rate: Uncommon

:Steelix:
Steelix
Not found in the wild in G/S/C, but it is in HG/SS. Here, it has a 2% chance to appear in Cliff Cave. In the post-game, it also has a 20% chance to appear at 1F in Mt. Silver.
Onix has a 5-10% chance of appearing at Union Cave during the main game, and a 15-20% chance of appearing in Victory Road. In HG/SS, Onix can also be found at Cliff Cave and at the Wasteland area in the Safari Zone, no blocks needed. In the post-game, it is also found in Rock Tunnel and Mt. Silver in all Johto games.
Onix can also be obtained through an in-game trade in Violet City in all games, which requires a Bellsprout (which in turn is easily found on the nearby Routes 31/32).
In order to evolve Onix into Steelix, it must be traded while holding a Metal Coat.
In HG/SS, you can also trade for a Steelix with Jasmine. This requires you to first beat the main game and then beat Jasmine in a rematch at Saffron City. After that, you can trade with her, she will accept any Pokémon for her Steelix.
Rate: Mythological (in the wild, HG/SS) / Uncommon (Onix, all games)

:Snubbull: :Granbull:
Snubbull line
In G/S & HG/SS, Snubbull has a 1% chance to appear outside of Swarms on Route 38. In Crystal, it appears on Routes 34/35 and on Routes 6/7/8 in Kanto, with a 30% chance of appearing at all times.
In Crystal, wild Granbull can be found on Route 6 in Kanto with a 5% chance to appear during Morning and Day.
Rate: Mythological (G/S & HG/SS) / Uncommon (Crystal)

:Qwilfish:
Qwilfish
In G/S/C, it can found on Route 32 at all times with a 10% chance of appearing, but only with the Super Rod, which means it is post-game only. The chance is higher on Route 32 when there is a Swarm. It can also be found on Routes 12/13 in Kanto.
In HG/SS, it is found on the same Routes as in G/S/C, but only with a 2-3% chance to appear outside of Swarms (which only happen on Route 32), which raises it to 90%. In the remakes, it can be found with the Good Rod as well, but only on Route 32. On the other routes, it is only found with the Super Rod.
Rate: Unavailable (G/S/C, unless swarms can be triggered before beating the game, in which case it would be Uncommon) / Mythological (HG/SS)
Post-game: Rare (G/S/C)

:Scizor:
Scizor
Not found in the wild.
Scyther can only be found in the Bug Catching Contest at the National Park, which is held on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays. It has a 5% chance to appear there.
In order to evolve Scyther into Scizor, it must be traded while holding a Metal Coat.
Rate: Rare (Pre-evolution only)

:Shuckle:
Shuckle
In G/S/C, it is found through Rock Smash at Route 40, Cianwood City, Burned Tower and Dark Cave. It has a 10% chance of appearing, providing you get a Pokémon to appear at all.
In HG/SS, it is found in fewer locations than in G/S/C. Here, it only appears in Cianwood City during the main game. In the post-game, it can also be found in the Marshland area in the Safari Zone (which requires blocks), and in Vermilion City.
You can also receive a “gift” Shuckle from a person in Cianwood City, but you will have to give it back at a later point if you want to keep your honesty intact. However the original owner will let you keep this Shuckle if you have gotten friendly enough with it.
Rate: Rare

:Heracross:
Heracross
In G/S/C, it is found at various places through Headbutt, with a 30% chance of appearing. It is found at fewer areas in Crystal than in G/S.
In HG/SS, it seems to be mostly the same as in G/S, but the rate of finding one varies between 20 and 30%.
Rate: Uncommon

:Sneasel:
Sneasel
In G/S and HG/SS, Sneasel is only found at Route 28 & Mt. Silver, both of which are post-game only. It is somewhat more common in HG/SS.
In Crystal, Sneasel is only found at Night in the Ice Path, at rates varying between 1 and 10% depending on the floor.
In HG/SS, Weavile is not found in the wild, it is not a part of the Johto Dex either.
Rate: Rare (Crystal) / Unavailable (G/S & HG/SS)
Post-game: Rare (G/S) / Uncommon (HG/SS)

:Teddiursa: :Ursaring:
Teddiursa line
Version exclusives with a twist: only found in Gold, Crystal and SoulSilver. In the Japanese and Korean versions of the Gen 2 games, they are exclusive to Silver instead of Gold.
In Gold, Teddiursa can be found at Route 45 with a 10% chance of appearing.
In Crystal, Teddiursa can be found at the Route 31 & 45 parts of Dark Cave with a 5% chance of appearing, but only in the Morning.
In SoulSilver, Teddiursa can be found at Route 45 like in Gold, but it can also be found at Mt. Silver during the post-game.
Ursaring is a lot more common than Teddiursa. In Gold and Crystal, it can be found in several places, notably Mt. Silver and Route 28 (Gold only) which are post-game only, but also in Victory Road (Gold) or Dark Cave (Crystal) before the post-game.
In SoulSilver, Ursaring’s locations are mostly similar to in Gold.
Rate: Uncommon

:Slugma: :Magcargo:
Slugma line
In the wild, Slugma can only be found at Routes 16/17/18 in Kanto. It has a 35% chance to appear on Route 17 during the Day, otherwise a 5% chance to appear.
Magcargo is not found in the wild in any of the Johto games.
In HG/SS, you can also get a Slugma from a Gift Egg if you input a special code to a person in Violet City, see the intro for instructions.
Rate: Unavailable (G/S/C) / Elusive (HG/SS)
Post-game: Uncommon

:Swinub: :Piloswine:
Swinub/Piloswine
In all Johto games, Swinub is found at Ice Path with a 40% chance of appearing. In Crystal, it does not appear at Night.
Piloswine is not found in the wild in any of the Johto games.
In HG/SS, Mamoswine is not found in the wild either.
Rate: Uncommon

:Corsola:
Corsola
In G/S/C, Corsola can be found through fishing at various areas. It has a 10% chance to appear with the Good Rod and a 30% chance to appear with the Super Rod, but it does not appear at Night.
In HG/SS, it appears at fewer areas (as well as in some different areas compared to G/S/C), but it now appears at all times and not only at Morning/Day. The rates have also changed for the Good Rod, it now only has a 3% chance to appear as opposed to a 10% chance in G/S/C.
Rate: Rare (G/S/C) / Mythological (HG/SS)

:Remoraid: :Octillery:
Remoraid line
Version exclusive, only found in G/S & HG/SS.
In G/S, it can be found through fishing at Route 44 with a 10% chance of appearing, but only with the Super Rod, which means it is post-game only. During a Swarm, it has higher chances of appearing and can be found with the Old and Good Rods as well.
In HG/SS, it can be found through fishing at Route 44, this time with both the Good and Super Rod, but only with a 2% chance of appearing regularly. The rate raises to 90% during swarms.
Octillery is not found in the wild in any of Johto games.
Rate: Unavailable (G/S, unless Swarms can be triggered before beating the game, in case it would be Uncommon) / Mythological (HG/SS)
Post-game: Rare (G/S)

:Delibird:
Delibird
Version exclusive, only found in Silver, Crystal and SoulSilver.
In Silver and SoulSilver, Delibird has a 20% chance of appearing in all areas of the Ice Path. In Crystal, it has a 40% chance of appearing, but it only appears at Night.
Rate: Uncommon

:Mantine:
Mantine
Version exclusive, only found in Gold, Crystal and HeartGold.
In all three games, Mantine has a 10% chance of appearing on Route 41.
In HeartGold, Mantyke is not found in the wild, and is not a part of the Johto Dex.
Rate: Rare

:Skarmory:
Skarmory
Version exclusive, only found in Silver, Crystal and SoulSilver.
In all games, it has a 5% chance to appear on Route 45. In Crystal, it is not found at Night.
Rate: Rare

:Houndour: :Houndoom:
Houndour line
In all games, Houndour can be found regularly on Route 7 during the Night, which is post-game only. It has a 5% chance to appear in G/S and HG/SS, but a 20% chance to appear in Crystal.
In HG/SS, it can also be found at the Savannah area in the Safari Zone, but that requires blocks.
Houndoom is not found in the wild in G/S/C. In HG/SS, it can be found at the Plains area in the Safari Zone, which also requires blocks.
Rate: Unavailable
Post-game: Rare (G/S & HG/SS) / Uncommon (Crystal)

:Kingdra:
Kingdra
Not found in the wild.
Wild Horsea can be found at Whirl Islands at various rates in all games, the best chance to find one is through Surfing. It is more common in G/S/C than in HG/SS.
Seadra can be found in the same areas as Horsea, but it has a lower chance of appearing and appears in somewhat fewer areas.
In HG/SS, wild Horsea and Seadra can also be found at Seafoam Islands in Kanto during the post-game
In order to evolve Seadra into Kingdra, it must be traded while holding a Dragon Scale.
Rate: Uncommon (Pre-evolutions only)

:Phanpy: :Donphan:
Phanpy line
Version exclusives with a twist: only found in Silver, Crystal and HeartGold. In the Japanese and Korean versions of the Gen 2 games, they are exclusive to Gold instead of Silver.
In Silver, Phanpy can be found at Route 45 with a 10% chance of appearing. In Crystal, it has a 5% chance of appearing at Routes 45/46, but only in the Morning. In HeartGold, it appears on Route 45 just like in Silver, but it is also found at Mt. Silver during the post-game.
In Silver and HeartGold, Donphan can be found at Mt. Silver, Route 28 and Victory Road with a 10-30% chance of appearing. In Crystal, it is only found on Route 45 with a 10% chance to appear during Morning and a 15% chance to appear during the Day.
Rate: Uncommon

:Porygon2:
Porygon2
Not found in the wild. Neither is Porygon, but it can be bought at the Celadon Game Corner for 9999 coins (G/S & HG/SS) or 5555 coins (Crystal). But that is post-game only.
In order to evolve Porygon into Porygon2, it must be traded while holding an Up-Grade.
Porygon-Z is not found in the wild in HG/SS, it is not a part of the Johto Dex either.
Rate: Unavailable
Post-game: Elusive (Pre-evolution only)

:Stantler:
Stantler
In G/S, Stantler appears at Routes 36 & 37. It has a 5% chance of appearing on Route 36 and a 30% chance to appear on Route 37.
In Crystal, it only appears on Route 37 at Night, with a 40% chance of doing so.
In HG/SS, it appears on the same routes as in G/S as well as at the Plains area in the Safari Zone, no blocks required.
Rate: Uncommon

:Smeargle:
Smeargle
Smeargle appears at the Grass outside of Ruins of Alph (requires backtracking and HMs, same as for Natu) with a 10% chance of appearing at all times except at Night in Crystal where it doesn’t appear.
In HG/SS, it also appears in the Plains area of the Safari Zone during Morning and Day, no blocks needed.
Rate: Rare

:Tyrogue: :Hitmontop:
Tyrogue/Hitmontop
Tyrogue is a baby Pokémon and not found in the wild.
In all Johto games, a Tyrogue can be obtained from Black Belt Kiyo in Mt. Mortar after beating him. This requires backtracking, several HMs, and an empty spot in the party.
In Crystal, Tyrogue has a chance to hatch from the Odd Egg. There is a 10% chance of getting a normal one and a 1% chance of getting a shiny, for a total of 11%.
None of the Hitmons are found in the wild in any of the Johto games.
Rate: Elusive

:Smoochum:
Smoochum
Baby Pokémon, not found in the wild.
Wild Jynx can be found at rates between 1 and 10% at Ice Path in all Johto games. In HG/SS, Jynx is also found at Seafoam Islands during the post-game.
In Crystal, Smoochum has a chance to hatch from the Odd Egg. There is a 14% chance of getting a regular one, and 2% chance of getting a shiny, for a total of 16%.
Rate: Elusive (Crystal) / Rare (Jynx, G/S & HG/SS)

:Elekid:
Elekid
Baby Pokémon, not found in the wild.
Electabuzz is only found at Route 10 in Kanto where it has a 5-10% chance of appearing. In HG/SS, Electabuzz is also found in the Forest area of the Safari Zone, but that requires blocks.
Electivire is not found in the wild in HG/SS, it is not a part of the Johto Dex either.
In Crystal, Elekid has a chance to hatch from the Odd Egg. There is a 12% chance of getting a regular one, and 2% chance of a shiny, for a total of 14%.
Rate: Elusive (Crystal) / Unobtainable (G/S & HG/SS)
Post-game: Rare (Electabuzz, all games)

:Magby:
Magby
Baby Pokémon, not found in the wild.
Magmar is found at the Burned Tower in G/S & HG/SS with a 5-10% chance of appearing. In Crystal, Magmar is only found at Mt. Silver, which is post-game only. In HG/SS, it can also be found at the Peak area in the Safari Zone. It has a 10% chance to appear there, but only during Morning and Day.
In Crystal, Magby has a chance to hatch from the Odd Egg. There is a 10% chance of getting a regular one, and 2% chance of a shiny, for a total of 12%.
In HG/SS, Magmortar is not found in the wild, it is not a part of the Johto Dex either.
Rate: Elusive (Crystal) / Rare (Magmar, G/S & HG/SS)

:Miltank:
Miltank
In G/S/C, Miltank has a 5% chance to appear on Routes 38 & 39, it does not appear at Night in Crystal. In HG/SS, it is the same as in G/S/C, but here it can also be found at Route 47 with a 20% chance of appearing. But in order to reach that area, you must backtrack once you have obtained Waterfall.
Rate: Rare

:Blissey:
Blissey
Not found in the wild.
In all games, Chansey has a 1% chance to appear outside of swarms on Routes 13/14/15 in Kanto. It can also be found at the Meadow area in the Safari Zone in HG/SS, but that requires blocks.
In HG/SS, Happiny is not found in the wild, and it is not a part of the Johto Dex either.
Rate: Unavailable
Post-game: Mythological (Pre-evolution, G/S/C) / Rare (Pre-evolution, HG/SS)

:Raikou: :Entei: :Suicune:
Raikou/Entei/Suicune
Legendaries. In G/S, all three are roamers. In Crystal and HG/SS, Suicune is not a roamer. The ones that roam will start roaming around Johto once they have been interacted with at the Burned Tower. They will not be roaming in Kanto, only in Johto (but not at Mt. Silver, I think).
In Crystal, Suicune is a mandatory legendary encounter at Tin Tower during the main game. If it is defeated there, it will not respawn and will be unobtainable forever.
In HG/SS, Suicune cannot be captured until the post-game since it doesn’t appear for capture until you reach Route 25 in Kanto.
Rate: Elusive (Raikou & Entei in all games, Suicune in G/S/C) / Unavailable (Suicune in HG/SS)
Post-game: Elusive (Suicune, HG/SS only)

:Larvitar: :Pupitar: :Tyranitar:
Larvitar line
In G/S, Larvitar appears in most areas of Mt. Silver with a 5% chance of appearing at all times. In Crystal, it is mostly the same as in G/S but it only appears during Morning and Day, and it has a 9% chance to appear in the deepest part of the cave.
In Crystal, Larvitar can also be bought at the Celadon Game Corner for 8888 coins.
In Crystal, Pupitar has a 1% chance of appearing in the deepest part of Mt. Silver during Morning and Day.
In HG/SS, Larvitar is found at Mt. Silver 5% of the time in all areas except for on the top, where it instead is found 10% of the time. During the main game, it can also be found in the Mountain area of the Safari Zone during Morning and Day, no blocks required.
In HG/SS, Pupitar can also be found in one area in Mt. Silver, but I’m unsure about which one, Serebii and Bulbapedia say different things. According to shiny finder's Encounter slots, it is found at “Mt. Silver 3F”. Either way, it has a 5% chance to appear in whichever area it now appears in.
Tyranitar does not appear in the wild in any of the Johto games.
Rate: Unavailable (G/S/C) / Rare (HG/SS)
Post-game: Rare (G/S/C)

:Lugia:
Lugia
Legendary. Requires the Silver Wing in order to appear.
In all games, it can be found at the bottom of the Whirl Islands. In Silver and SoulSilver, it is available before beating the game as you get the Silver Wing during the main story, after beating Team Rocket at the Radio Tower in Goldenrod. In SoulSilver, Lugia is a mandatory encounter and must be caught/defeated in order to progress with the game (if defeated, it will respawn during the post-game). In Silver, it is 100% optional.
In Gold, Crystal and HeartGold, it is only available during the post-game since you receive the Silver Wing from an NPC in Pewter City in those games.
Rate: Elusive (Silver & SoulSilver)
Post-game: Elusive (Gold, Crystal & HeartGold)

:Ho-Oh:
Ho-Oh
Legendary. Requires the Rainbow Wing in order to appear.
In all games, it can be found at the top of the Tin/Bell Tower. In Gold and HeartGold, it is available before beating the game as you get the Rainbow Wing during the main story, after beating Team Rocket at the Radio Tower in Goldenrod. In HeartGold, it is a mandatory encounter and must be caught/defeated in order to progress with the game (if defeated, it will respawn during the post-game). In Gold, it is 100% optional.
In Silver, Crystal and SoulSilver, it is only available during the post-game. In Silver and SoulSilver, the Rainbow Wing is obtained from an NPC in Pewter City.
In Crystal, you get the Rainbow Wing from the Wise Trio Sages at Tin Tower after catching Raikou, Suicune and Entei and beating the main game. The three legendary beasts must be present in the party or the Pokémon Storage System with the same OT/ID as the player in order to obtain the Rainbow Wing.
Rate: Elusive (Gold & HeartGold)
Post-game: Elusive (Silver, Crystal & SoulSilver)

:Celebi:
Celebi
Mythical.
In the original G/S/C, VC G/S as well as HG/SS, it is not available normally and must be obtained through an event. In VC Crystal only, it can be found in Ilex Forest after beating the main game.
Rate: Unavailable outside of Events (Original G/S/C, VC G/S & HG/SS)
Post-game: Elusive (VC Crystal only)
That’s the raw statistics.

Next, I wanted to take a look at how the appearance rates for certain Pokémon varies between the different Johto games. This includes both the main game and the post-game.

The following Pokémon are more common or easier to find in G/S/C than in HG/SS: The Chinchou line, Shuckle, Qwilfish, Corsola, the Remoraid line (G/S only) and Suicune.
Interestingly, these are mostly Pokémon obtained through fishing, as well as Shuckle and Suicune.
The Chinchou line and Corsola are only more common in G/S/C during the main game since HG/SS lowered their rates for the Good Rod for some unknown reason. Finding them with the Super Rod during the post-game is easier in all Johto games.
Remoraid might be more common during the main game in G/S, it depends on when Swarms are available. It is more common in HG/SS during swarms, but more common in G/S outside of swarms.
Qwilfish is post-game only in G/S/C, but it has a higher chance to appear outside of Swarms in the originals. While it can be found during the main game in HG/SS, there’s only a 2% chance of finding one.
Shuckle does for some reason appear in fewer areas in HG/SS. No idea why. It is marginally more common in G/S/C due to being found in more areas.
Suicune is mentioned here because it can be obtained before the post-game in G/S/C, but not in HG/SS. Other than that, I’d say it is easier to catch in Crystal and HG/SS compared to in G/S since it is not a roamer in the former games.

The following Pokémon are more common or easier to find in Crystal than in G/S or HG/SS: The Snubbull line, Sneasel, the Houndour line, Porygon2 and Celebi (VC Crystal only).
Snubbull is notably way more common in Crystal than in any of the other Johto games. I think it is one of the best examples of how the Pokémon distribution in Crystal changed something for the better.
Sneasel is still rare in Crystal, but it is at least obtainable before the post-game, unlike in G/S & HG/SS. Sneasel is more common in HG/SS than in G/S during the post-game though.
Houndour is only available during the post-game in all Johto games, but it is more common in Crystal than in the others.
Porygon2 is slightly easier to get in Crystal because buying a Porygon here requires 5555 coins compared to 9999 coins in G/S & HG/SS.
For VC Crystal only, Celebi is easier to get by default since it can actually be obtained without an event of any sort.

The following are easier to obtain in Crystal only because of the Odd Egg: Pichu, Cleffa, Igglybuff, Tyrogue, Smoochum, Elekid, Magby.
Those are all the baby Pokémon in Johto, except for Togepi which is easy to obtain anyway. While they are still a bit elusive, you are at least guaranteed to get one of them from the Odd Egg. This is notable because none of them are found in the wild, and only Tyrogue is obtainable otherwise outside of breeding. So I think Crystal definitely has an edge here, it lets you obtain a baby Pokémon which then evolves into something that might not be obtainable until considerably later, or until the post-game in some of the cases.
One thing to note about the Odd Egg is that in the Japanese version of Crystal, it was only accessible from an event through the Mobile System GB (which doesn’t exist in the international versions). Since all of the events for the MSGB are now long gone (the service closed in December 2002 according to Bulbapedia) and it isn’t present in the VC version of Japanese Crystal, it means that players of Japanese Crystal can no longer obtain the Odd Egg.

The following Pokémon are easier or more common in Crystal and HG/SS than in G/S: The Marill line.
Note that Marill is the most common in Crystal, followed by HG/SS (only because of the Safari Zone) and lastly G/S. Still, I felt that it was at least worth mentioning.

The following Pokémon are more common or easier to find in HG/SS than in G/S/C: Murkrow, Misdreavus, Dunsparce, Smeargle, Miltank, Larvitar, Steelix, Slugma, Blissey (Chansey), Clefairy (to breed a Cleffa) and Jigglypuff (to breed an Igglybuff).
Of these, Murkrow, Misdreavus and Larvitar are only found in the Safari Zone during the main game while they are still as uncommon in the originals during the post-game.
Dunsparce is only more common through Rock Smash.
While Steelix is available in the wild in HG/SS, it only has a 2% chance of appearing before the post-game.
Smeargle is somewhat more common in HG/SS as it appears in the Safari Zone in addition to in the grass outside of Ruins of Alph, so it is only a minor difference.
Miltank is marginally more common as it can be found in the grass on Route 48, but that requires backtracking very late in the game (once you have Waterfall) so I don’t think it makes that much of a difference.
Slugma is one of the three Pokémon that can be obtained from the special gift egg in Violet City. Out of them, it is the only one that really matters as Mareep and Wooper can both be found in the wild in nearby areas, while Slugma is otherwise not found until the post-game.
Jigglypuff is somewhat easier to find in HG/SS where it only appears in the Safari Zone at a higher rate than in G/S/C (40%, compared to 5% in G/S/C). But at the same time, it is found earlier in G/S/C so I’m not really sure if it makes a difference.
Clefairy is found earlier in HG/SS only because of the Safari Zone, it is otherwise post-game only just like in G/S/C.
Chansey is still post-game only in HG/SS, but it is somewhat easier to find here thanks to Swarms and making an appearance in the Safari Zone.

The following Pokémon is notably harder to get in Crystal than in G/S or HG/SS: Ho-Oh.
It is only because of the very heavy requirements needed to get Ho-Oh in Crystal compared to getting it in G/S or HG/SS. Personally, I never caught Ho-Oh in Crystal because of the requirements needed. I strongly dislike the concept of roaming legendaries, so I never caught both Entei and Raikou in Crystal. In fact, I’m not even sure if I caught one of them for that matter.

...

Before I went through the encounter slots and the availability for all the Johto Pokémon, I expected Crystal to have the overall better availability. But now that I look back at everything after getting the answer, I feel that Crystal being superior isn’t really the case. While there are some Johto Pokémon that are easier to find or available earlier in Crystal (or G/S/C on the whole) than in HG/SS, there are also some that are easier to find or available earlier in HG/SS than in G/S/C. Crystal only really wins if we include the Odd Egg. Otherwise, the games have different availability for certain Pokémon, but they are pretty even in the end. That said, I still think HG/SS failed because they didn’t really improve upon G/S/C, they didn’t do any significant changes on the whole. While they made some Pokémon easier to find, they made some others harder to find at the same time, which means they didn’t really change things for the better on the whole. It is more like they took one step forward and one step back at the same time.

If we look at the general availability of the Johto Pokémon in the Johto games, it is disheartening to see how few of them are actually common. Only a total of 7 Johto Pokémon are common, which are the Hoothoot, Wooper and Hoppip lines. It could also be said that Politoed and Crobat are common, but only if we count their pre-evolutions as they themselves are not available in the wild in the Johto games. But no matter how we count, the fact stands that less than 10% of the Johto Pokémon are common in their own region and games. While I don’t have the numbers and percentages for the other regions, it feels like very little. It should have been higher.

In comparison, there are a lot of Pokémon that are uncommon, rare, mythological, elusive or even unavailable until the post-game.

Even if we don’t include the starters and legendaries, there are still several Johto Pokémon that are elusive. Togepi, Sudowoodo, Tyrogue, the Johto Eeveelutions, Porygon2, Slugma in HG/SS as well as most of the Baby Pokémon in Crystal (which somewhat ironically generally makes them easier to get than in G/S or HG/SS). That’s exactly 10%, 16% if we include the Odd Egg Baby Pokémon, and 30% if we do include the starters and legendaries! That’s almost a third of the Johto Pokémon. Once again, it feels like a very large amount in terms of percentage.

There are also a lot of Pokémon that are rare or mythological. While I think it is okay for every region and every game to have one or a few really rare Pokémon (such as Chimecho in Hoenn, Munchlax in Sinnoh or Cryogonal in Unova), I think Johto has way too many. Chinchou/Lanturn, Marill/Azumarill, Shuckle, Sneasel, Corsola, Mantine, Skarmory, Smeargle, Yanma, Dunsparce, Snubbull/Granbull, Qwilfish and Remoraid/Octillery are all rare or mythological in at least one Johto game. That’s 17% of the Johto Pokémon.

Then there’s also the ones that are unavailable until the post-game in at least one Johto game: Murkrow, Pichu, Cleffa, Misdreavus, Qwilfish, Sneasel, Slugma, Remoraid/Octillery (maybe), Elekid, Houndour/Houndoom, Blissey and Larvitar/Pupitar/Tyranitar. That’s 16% (or 14% if it is possible to get the Remoraid line before the post-game). Also quite many, I don’t think any other region has that many. In comparison, S/M Alola has several that are unavailable until the post-game, but these are all legendaries, UBs and mythicals, not a single regular Pokémon.

As a disclaimer, I know that some of these statistics are semi-incorrect because some Johto Pokémon appear in one or more of these (for instance, Porygon2 is both elusive and unavailable until the post-game).

Another issue with the Johto games is that while the Johto Pokémon are generally uncommon or rare in Johto, the Kanto Pokémon are very common. This is annoying because they have basically taken over the region, the odds of finding a Kanto Pokémon in Johto is generally much higher than finding a Johto Pokémon.

Looking at the Johto Pokédex/Pokémon on the whole, I think another big issue is that it is fractured. The Johto Pokémon rely too much on Pokémon from other regions, most notably Kanto and Sinnoh. The Johto Pokémon can never feel complete on their own because they would be missing a lot of evolutions and pre-evolutions if they were on their own without any of their evolutionary relatives from the other regions. I think this is very notable in HG/SS where a large amount of the evos and pre-evos of the Johto Pokémon are not in the regional Dex and can’t be obtained until the post-game outside of trades, which makes the Johto Dex feel incomplete. But even without that, getting the Johto Pokémon themselves can also be tricky. The ones that evolve from a Pokémon from another region often require some complicated method such as Friendship or the use of an item that’s often hard to obtain (and sometimes requires trade too). While the Baby Pokémon are generally not found in the wild, but their evolved forms are. And since the final evolution is generally what most players strive for, there’s no need to obtain the Baby Pokémon if you can find the evolved form in the wild.

While the Sinnoh part of the Pokédex is also heavily fractured, I think the Sinnoh games have the edge over Johto as I feel that Platinum did a way better job at including and focusing on all the Sinnoh Pokémon and their evolutionary relatives from the other regions, which is one of the many things I think HG/SS failed at.

In comparison to Johto and Sinnoh, the other regions are generally not as fractured. Except for Kanto, I guess. It could stand on its own in the past but it has gotten very fractured over the years, I think I would find it very notable if I were to play LGP/E today, but even with that I’d say it is a slight problem in FR/LG as well. As for the others, Hoenn and Unova can mostly stand on their own as they have very few Pokémon related to Pokémon from other regions. The same goes for Kalos, Alola and Galar, but they have way too few Pokémon in total to the point that they can’t really stand on their own in the end anyway.

So, to summarize: In general, most Johto Pokémon are ranging between uncommon and rare in their own region, if they are even available in it at all. Personally, I think there is no reason for the majority of them to be uncommon or rare in their own region. That feels like bad game design. It would have been okay if it had been the case for just a few of the Johto Pokémon since that happens in every other region as well, but I think it just happens in too many cases for the Johto Pokémon. That’s a really big shame.

And that’s it for Johto Syndrome in Johto. If anyone wants to add something more to all of this or comment on anything here, feel free to do so. And if anyone wants to make an analysis like this for any other region, feel free to do so as well. I am personally not going to do it. Thanks for reading.
Depending on the language of the game, triggering swarms in Gen II is very easy. In versions that added in Daylight Savings Time(Most importantly the English version), you can talk to your mom and keep toggling DST on and off. Every time you do so, you get a phonecall from one of the people registered in your Pokegear. In Gen II you can also deleted unwanted phone numbers, so it's Pretty easy to to just mash buttons until you get the call you want. This can also be done from any Phone Numbers with other bonuses, like handing out items, for easy evolution stones.
 
I am not a big fan of the Johto games. They are my least favorites in the series without a doubt, especially HG/SS which are my very least favorites out of all the main series Pokémon games.

That said, I like the Johto Pokémon. While they are far from my favorites (in fact, they are my second least favorites on the whole), I still like them a lot. I think there are many great Johto Pokémon.

However, one thing I really don’t like is this: The fact that the majority of the Johto Pokémon are mostly uncommon or rare in the Johto region and the Johto games. I, along with many other players, consider this to be a big issue with the Johto games. So here’s a post about this phenomenon, which has been given the fan term “Johto Syndrome” since it started in the Johto games and is very prominent there even if it applies to the other regions as well, but to different (usually smaller) extents.

I think this is the right thread for this post. While most of this is just objective facts, it will be done in a rather negative context. I also have some of my own opinions to add as well, mostly towards the end. Those are mostly negative. So that’s why I’m posting this here.


Johto Syndrome in Johto – The complete breakdown
<snip>
I have to agree. As awesome as having two regions in one game seemed when I was a kid, even at the time the distribution of Pokemon was aggravating. As mentioned in the survey thread I had to get a Misdreavus traded to me from someone who'd blitzed through the game already so I could use it on my in-game team. The only new ghost type Pokemon, which wasn't even particularly busted for in-game use, was available only at the very end of the game... why?!

It seems like the reason some Johto mons are only available in Kanto is so that there are still new Pokemon to discover in the postgame. However, with the hindsight of 6 more gens, Johto really had no business having only 100 new mons to spread across two regions, especially with a) 18 of those mons being evolutions or babies + 6 legendaries/mythical and b) the pitiful type distributions. GSC really needed something like Hoenn or Unova's dex with 2/3 available in Johto and the remaining 1/3 available in Kanto. Given that Iwata had to write his own compression routine for the game to fit Kanto in there, this obviously wasn't possible. It ended up setting an unfortunate tone for future generations, where now all postgames look minimal and pathetic in comparison. Now that we've seen a whole suite of GSC beta mons, I kind of wish they kept some of those mons (not the babies) and maybe more instead of fitting in Kanto (but keeping Red as the post-game final boss). (That said, that could be a kind of Mankey's paw wish; without the hype of Kanto in GSC, who knows if Pokemon would have generated the momentum necessary to keep going).
 
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The fact that the regional rodent is listed as uncommon is very fun to me.

One thing I would do is that i'd change bellossom and sunflora to rare/elusive in the original games, because getting a sun stone is bordeline impossible if cooltraner nick (i think thats his name) is participating, since he will almost always wins. So you gotta reset for that, and lord have mercy on you if you dont know about him.

Maybe change trade only pokemon (no encounters in wild) to unavaliable: you either enable trade evo changes in the universal randomizer, or you just don't get them. There's no need to rate the pre evos when you just won't get the final johto evo without changing the game.
 
Something that's a little annoying if you like doing color theme teams is that some Pokemon are just straight up in the wrong color list.

Rotom's Pokedex color is red, even though it's actually orange. Medicham and Wormadam trash are apparently red as well, even though they are clearly pink. Shellos and Gastrodon are actually pink, but they are in the purple list for some reason. When looking at the purple list I was perplexed to find Forretress there. Forretress does actually have a purple hue in all of its sprites, but it's XY model is just grey. It's official art doesn't have to purple hue either, so that's interesting.

Another example is Pincurchin, which is also in the purple list even though it's just black. Maybe a beta version of Pincurchin was originally planned to be purple like some real sea urchins, but then they changed the design and didn't go back to change the pokedex color.

Seviper and Qwilfish have a similar teal-ish color, so why is Seviper black and Qwilfish grey? Why is Dusclops black when the much darker Zoroark is in grey? What's Whimsicott doing in green when it's body is brown and its hair is white? Meanwhile, Tsareena, who has much more green on its body, is in purple.

???
 
Depending on the language of the game, triggering swarms in Gen II is very easy. In versions that added in Daylight Savings Time(Most importantly the English version), you can talk to your mom and keep toggling DST on and off. Every time you do so, you get a phonecall from one of the people registered in your Pokegear. In Gen II you can also deleted unwanted phone numbers, so it's Pretty easy to to just mash buttons until you get the call you want. This can also be done from any Phone Numbers with other bonuses, like handing out items, for easy evolution stones.
Very interesting information, thank you! However, this does not answer my question about whether Swarms in G/S/C can be triggered before the post-game or not.
I have to agree. As awesome as having two regions in one game seemed when I was a kid, even at the time the distribution of Pokemon was aggravating. As mentioned in the survey thread I had to get a Misdreavus traded to me from someone who'd blitzed through the game already so I could use it on my in-game team. The only new ghost type Pokemon, which wasn't even particularly busted for in-game use, was available only at the very end of the game... why?!

It seems like the reason some Johto mons are only available in Kanto is so that there are still new Pokemon to discover in the postgame. However, with the hindsight of 6 more gens, Johto really had no business having only 100 new mons to spread across two regions, especially with a) 18 of those mons being evolutions or babies + 6 legendaries/mythical and b) the pitiful type distributions. GSC really needed something like Hoenn or Unova's dex with 2/3 available in Johto and the remaining 1/3 available in Kanto. Given that Iwata had to write his own compression routine for the game to fit Kanto in there, this obviously wasn't possible. It ended up setting an unfortunate tone for future generations, where now all postgames look minimal and pathetic in comparison. Now that we've seen a whole suite of GSC beta mons, I kind of wish they kept some of those mons (not the babies) and maybe more instead of fitting in Kanto (but keeping Red as the post-game final boss). (That said, that could be a kind of Mankey's paw wish; without the hype of Kanto in GSC, who knows if Pokemon would have generated the momentum necessary to keep going).
Personally, I think they should have focused on most of the Johto Pokémon in Johto (maybe save one or a few for Kanto, but not too many), while having the Kanto Pokémon being in the focus in Kanto. Instead, what they did was to give the focus to the Kanto Pokémon in both regions. I remember back when I played G/S/C, I was a bit annoyed by how rare or uncommon several of the Johto Pokémon were, or how late they were available, but back then I didn't realize how big the problem actually was.

I disagree with your statement on how the post-games of all future generations look "minimal and pathetic" compared to G/S/C. If anything, I think most of them did a better job than the Johto games. I think the post-game in the Johto games isn't all that good. I'd say the games with the best post-games are the Unova and Sinnoh games as well as OR/AS and US/UM. Emerald and FR/LG are also solid. Even X/Y and S/M aren't half bad. While they have smaller areas to explore, they have a lot more to actually do. The post-game in the Johto games looks amazing at first since you have a whole new region to explore... but in reality, it is small and empty. There isn't much to do in Kanto. HG/SS didn't really improve upon it either IMO. That said, I agree that it was really cool back in G/S/C. As you put it, having two regions in one game seemed awesome. But taking a closer look at it now that I'm older, it wasn't really all that good, sadly.

Looking back at the Johto games, I feel that having Kanto in them might have been a mistake. While it was sort of cool, it also caused many big issues. I really wonder how the games would have turned out of they had been more similar to what we have seen from the beta? Would they have been better or worse? They would at least have been very different, that's for sure.
The fact that the regional rodent is listed as uncommon is very fun to me.
Fun but also tragic at the same time, the Sentret line is uncommon and completely overshadowed by the Rattata line which is much more common and found in considerably more locations.
One thing I would do is that i'd change bellossom and sunflora to rare/elusive in the original games, because getting a sun stone is bordeline impossible if cooltraner nick (i think thats his name) is participating, since he will almost always wins. So you gotta reset for that, and lord have mercy on you if you dont know about him.
Wow. I had no idea. If anything, I remember that I generally had an easier time winning the BCC in G/S/C than in HG/SS (but still, it was not always easy). I have added that to the Sun Stone section either way.
Maybe change trade only pokemon (no encounters in wild) to unavaliable: you either enable trade evo changes in the universal randomizer, or you just don't get them. There's no need to rate the pre evos when you just won't get the final johto evo without changing the game.
I was really unsure about how to handle the Johto evolutions that are not found in the wild, what I did in the list was the best I could think of, but I'm not sure if it is the optimal solution. Either way, I changed things a bit based on your suggestions. I updated the description for some of them. Bellossom is now listed as Unobtainable in the wild, the same goes for all the trade evos apart from Steelix in HG/SS which is found in the wild. I did not change anything for Sunflora since Sunkern can still be found in the wild.

Also, one other thing. Earlier today, I was doing some research for another post I am working on and I learned that in HG/SS, Sudowoodo respawns after beating the game if you defeat it the first time. I guess that should have been obvious since the same goes for the legendaries and for the Snorlax in Kanto (which I have personally seen respawn after beating it the first time). Either way, I have updated this info for Sudowoodo in my previous post.
 
Personally, I think they should have focused on most of the Johto Pokémon in Johto (maybe save one or a few for Kanto, but not too many), while having the Kanto Pokémon being in the focus in Kanto. Instead, what they did was to give the focus to the Kanto Pokémon in both regions. I remember back when I played G/S/C, I was a bit annoyed by how rare or uncommon several of the Johto Pokémon were, or how late they were available, but back then I didn't realize how big the problem actually was.

I disagree with your statement on how the post-games of all future generations look "minimal and pathetic" compared to G/S/C. If anything, I think most of them did a better job than the Johto games. I think the post-game in the Johto games isn't all that good. I'd say the games with the best post-games are the Unova and Sinnoh games as well as OR/AS and US/UM. Emerald and FR/LG are also solid. Even X/Y and S/M aren't half bad. While they have smaller areas to explore, they have a lot more to actually do. The post-game in the Johto games looks amazing at first since you have a whole new region to explore... but in reality, it is small and empty. There isn't much to do in Kanto. HG/SS didn't really improve upon it either IMO. That said, I agree that it was really cool back in G/S/C. As you put it, having two regions in one game seemed awesome. But taking a closer look at it now that I'm older, it wasn't really all that good, sadly.

Looking back at the Johto games, I feel that having Kanto in them might have been a mistake. While it was sort of cool, it also caused many big issues. I really wonder how the games would have turned out of they had been more similar to what we have seen from the beta? Would they have been better or worse? They would at least have been very different, that's for sure.
Perhaps I should have emphasized the look in "look minimal and pathetic by comparison," because your sentiment is exactly what I was getting at. I don't think the post-gen 2 postgames are minimal and pathetic, just that everyone remembers that GSC let you go to Kanto and fight all the gym leaders again and then go fight Red. However, few people remember that the actual amount of content in GSC Kanto wasn't that substantial compared to recent installments*, and so there is now this imaginary standard of a fully fleshed-out second region in the base game to which newer games are constantly compared.

I wonder, if GameFreak and Nintendo hadn't thought that GSC was going to be the last entry in the series, perhaps they might not have tried to squeeze Kanto in as the ultimate follow-up and instead would have let Johto stand on its own.


(*I happened to watch "Beating Pokemon Gold & Silver as Nintended" recently, and to be honest it looked like there was more to do in Kanto than I remembered, but it still doesn't seem like much more than the postgame of recent installments.)
 

Pikachu315111

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Something that's a little annoying if you like doing color theme teams is that some Pokemon are just straight up in the wrong color list.
Ah yes, Pokemon color shenanigans. GF insistence on having Pokemon in only one color group have led to some odd choices due to how colorful some Pokemon are, to the point where you gotta ask "why not put some Pokemon is multiple color groups".

Rotom's Pokedex color is red, even though it's actually orange.
And then we have examples like this where, fun fact, Orange is not a color group. That's right, there are 10 color groups: Red, Green, Blue, Yellow, Purple, Pink, Brown, Black, Gray, and White.

Many Pokemon that are orange are either placed in Red or Brown (Brown is also where they toss in some of the tan-colored Pokemon if it's a bit too dark to be put into Yellow).

Seviper and Qwilfish have a similar teal-ish color, so why is Seviper black and Qwilfish grey? Why is Dusclops black when the much darker Zoroark is in grey? Meanwhile, Tsareena, who has much more green on its body, is in purple.
I can see Seviper being black, not all blacks are jet black and the teal is dark enough you have to look closely to realize its a dark shade of green-blue. Qwilfish I have no clue why it isn't either in blue or green. Zoroark is a dark gray so I'll let that slide, but the Duskull family should also be Gray. I can see an arguement for Tsareena being purple because only it's hair is green while the main body is purple (technically dark magenta) and white.

But let's go back a bit to that "teal" issue, because that's actually a notable problem, or rather the distinction between blue and green. Fun fact, ancient Japan did not have a different name for what we call the color green, to the Japanese it was just another shade of what they called "blue" (though technically you can say they didn't have a name for blue either, they more had a word for teal and saw any blues and greens as a shade of that color). Only reason the old word is linked to blue is because in modern times it was green that got a new word to describe it to match with western cultures depictions of colors. However, many modern day Japanese people may still call green-colored objects "blue", and Pokemon is no different.
Now GF is pretty good with the color blue, all Pokemon in Blue category are mostly blue. Green is where they have a bit of an issue, notably with Pokemon that are teal colored. "Well, you said so yourself teal is inbetween blue and green so what's wrong with that"? Well, while them putting a teal Pokemon as green would be fine, it's when the Pokemon has a secondary color which leans it in another direction does this become more of a headscratcher. According to GF, the following Pokemon are Green because their "main" color is teal:






(I kid you not, Regidrago is "Green" because its dragon skull arms is a dark teal... and let me remind you that Seviper is a lighter shade of teal then that yet it's been organized as a Black-colored Pokemon. What is this logic GF?)
 
Ah yes, Pokemon color shenanigans. GF insistence on having Pokemon in only one color group have led to some odd choices due to how colorful some Pokemon are, to the point where you gotta ask "why not put some Pokemon is multiple color groups".



And then we have examples like this where, fun fact, Orange is not a color group. That's right, there are 10 color groups: Red, Green, Blue, Yellow, Purple, Pink, Brown, Black, Gray, and White.

Many Pokemon that are orange are either placed in Red or Brown (Brown is also where they toss in some of the tan-colored Pokemon if it's a bit too dark to be put into Yellow).



I can see Seviper being black, not all blacks are jet black and the teal is dark enough you have to look closely to realize its a dark shade of green-blue. Qwilfish I have no clue why it isn't either in blue or green. Zoroark is a dark gray so I'll let that slide, but the Duskull family should also be Gray. I can see an arguement for Tsareena being purple because only it's hair is green while the main body is purple (technically dark magenta) and white.

But let's go back a bit to that "teal" issue, because that's actually a notable problem, or rather the distinction between blue and green. Fun fact, ancient Japan did not have a different name for what we call the color green, to the Japanese it was just another shade of what they called "blue" (though technically you can say they didn't have a name for blue either, they more had a word for teal and saw any blues and greens as a shade of that color). Only reason the old word is linked to blue is because in modern times it was green that got a new word to describe it to match with western cultures depictions of colors. However, many modern day Japanese people may still call green-colored objects "blue", and Pokemon is no different.
Now GF is pretty good with the color blue, all Pokemon in Blue category are mostly blue. Green is where they have a bit of an issue, notably with Pokemon that are teal colored. "Well, you said so yourself teal is inbetween blue and green so what's wrong with that"? Well, while them putting a teal Pokemon as green would be fine, it's when the Pokemon has a secondary color which leans it in another direction does this become more of a headscratcher. According to GF, the following Pokemon are Green because their "main" color is teal:






(I kid you not, Regidrago is "Green" because its dragon skull arms is a dark teal... and let me remind you that Seviper is a lighter shade of teal then that yet it's been organized as a Black-colored Pokemon. What is this logic GF?)
I could see it being a tossup for Dhelmise and Celesteela between Green and Brown/Gray respectively. I also seem to think of them as being greener ingame than the art suggests, but I might be misremembering. The other ones are less salvageable. Why are they even focusing on Regidago's arms anyway, when the clearly red core seems more memorable?
 
All swarms are able to be triggered as soon as you get their respective trainer's phone numbers, and all of those trainers are located within Johto.
Confirming this, I used an Octillery when playing through VC Gold as soon as I could get access to Route 44 by using the DST trick.

Waturret the Octillery!

Something that's a little annoying if you like doing color theme teams is that some Pokemon are just straight up in the wrong color list.

Rotom's Pokedex color is red, even though it's actually orange. Medicham and Wormadam trash are apparently red as well, even though they are clearly pink. Shellos and Gastrodon are actually pink, but they are in the purple list for some reason. When looking at the purple list I was perplexed to find Forretress there. Forretress does actually have a purple hue in all of its sprites, but it's XY model is just grey. It's official art doesn't have to purple hue either, so that's interesting.

Another example is Pincurchin, which is also in the purple list even though it's just black. Maybe a beta version of Pincurchin was originally planned to be purple like some real sea urchins, but then they changed the design and didn't go back to change the pokedex color.

Seviper and Qwilfish have a similar teal-ish color, so why is Seviper black and Qwilfish grey? Why is Dusclops black when the much darker Zoroark is in grey? What's Whimsicott doing in green when it's body is brown and its hair is white? Meanwhile, Tsareena, who has much more green on its body, is in purple.

???
I kinda see Shellos/Gastrodon as purple as a compromise between the west and east sea variants. Unfortunately my logic falls apart because Jellicent, which has similarly colored different forms based on gender, is classified as a WHITE Pokémon.
 

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