Unpopular opinions

I'm not sure Dynamax outside of Galar would be that immersion breaking. Eternatus's power may be localized in Galar, but Calyrex's blue glow suggests that Eternatus isn't the only way to Dynamax. They could easily explain it as the energy from some mysterious Pokemon who is said to sleep at the peak of Mt. Coronet (aka Arceus).
I do not think that would soften the blow of backlash considering how quickly Dynamax overstayed its welcome among the Pokémon community beyond the VGC community, but at least that would be a sensible explanation and not shoehorning Eternatus into Sinnoh.

The bigger problems is removing some of Sinnoh's original identity by involving big stadium gyms, underground becoming Dynamax Adventure or Raid Dens, giving Dialga and Palkia Eternamax forms or something strikingly similar to Eternamax instead of Primal Reversion, especially since Dynamax cannot be implemented in spin-offs as easily as Megas and Primals without raising eyebrows or becoming impractical.

And on top of those, make Mega Lucario, Mega Abomasnow, and Mega Garchomp obsolete and replaced by Gigantamax forms that would come off as incredibly redundant if none of the G-Max forms offer anything really different from their Mega counterpart, if G-Max Gengar compared to Mega Gengar is anything to go by.

There are reasons why some people are fearing that the DP remakes will be SwSh 2, as ridiculous as that comes off.
 
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they shoehorned mega evolutions in hoenn and that came out alright in the end, dmaxing in sinnoh remakes will be fine. not like they'll come out in the first place lmao
Did you even read what I said? Mega Evolution may be shoehorned into Hoenn, yes, but it does not heavily modify Hoenn as a place since Mega Evolution only requires a Mega Stone and a Key Stone.

Dynamax would require not just a source of D-Max energy, but also changed Gyms, replaced Underground by Raid Dens / Dynamax Adventures, and copy-pasting the Galar's Battle Tower as the full replacement of the Platinum's Battle Frontier, and other things, to the point that it feels a lot less Sinnoh and more of an expansion of Galar.

It wouldn't be as immersion breaking as saying, in XY, that Mega Evolutions were created in Kalos, only for ORAS to say that Hoennians have known them for milennia.
And it wouldn't be even the last time they just did. Don't forget, GF had explicitly said that parallels dimensions and alternative timeline exists so much, especially if ORAS and USUM are anything to go by. Pokémon mainline is incredibly inconsistent in terms of timeline we might as well just stop expecting the remakes to be really remakes and more "expansion of the mainline games", instead of making a whole coherent world.
 
I actually think FRLG are good remakes.

1) RBY is a lovable mess, which FRLG cleaned up mechanics wise.
2) Character redesigns are really good.
3) Much cleaner looking Pokemon sprites than anything before it, and Emerald after it.
4) We've been spoiled by Gen 2's postgame, but I enjoyed the Sevii Islands postgame a lot. Granted the plot was very simple, I felt that's where the beauty was: just exploring new places and finding new Pokemon.
5) Great music. While this is a given for any Pokemon game, I think the FRLG champion theme is the greatest battle theme we've ever had. I also think the remixed GSC themes for the Sevii Isles are even better than the HGSS versions.
6) Elite 4 and Champion rematches with improved teams, which was the first time it was included and wasn't included again until Platinum. I wish we could rematch gym leaders though. That felt like it was dying to happen but didn't.
7) Added an extra place to grind between Blaine and Giovanni battles with a side plot.

I agree, even though I don't like FRLG. It really was a polished remake and the addition of the Sevii Islands added some much needed new flair to Kanto, but it wasn't enough. Kanto is boring.

I couldn't help but laugh a bit at the Gen 2 post-game comment though. GSC Kanto is not only very overrated, but not that popular as a post-game compared to Emerald's Battle Frontier.

It was kinda nice for what they wanted and could do though. Definitely up there in terms of post-game.
 
IMO, there are a few things that are necessary for DP remakes to not be garbage:

1. Difficulty: In no uncertain terms, Sinnoh NEEDS to be at least somewhat challenging. The difficulty is one of things the community seems to remember the most about these games- it's part of their identity; that final fight with Cynthia just wouldn't be the same if it gets nerfed. I would also argue that since Gen 8 is the generation of getting Pokemon Go players onboard the main series, it makes logical sense for the DP remakes to see a difficulty spike compared to SwSh. Let's Go was about transitioning Go players into the series, SwSh got them into the proper gameplay formula; the newbies are used to Pokemon now, so naturally DP+ should be the games that ramp up the challenge, test them in ways the last few games just don't. Of course, this is probably the point where they're most likely to fail, since apparently kids these days don't have the attention span for challenge (and yet do have the attention span for 10 hours of unskippable cutscenes, I guess), but if DP+ are on the same difficulty level as SwSh, then I frankly have no interest in getting them.
2. Stick to Platinum: It may be controversial to say, but Diamond and Pearl have some- very notable issues. There's a reason Platinum gets gushed about far more- it's basically superior in every way, an example of GF using the third version to fix the flaws of the first 2. As such, I'd say keep the quality of life improvements Platinum made, and like ORAS' Delta Episode expand on some of these ideas. I would love a fully explorable Distortion World (actually explorable, not Ultra Space "explorable").
3. Keep the Map Open: The last 2 regions have had a bad habit of keeping the player on a mostly linear path, and like many I feel this approach to design does a great disservice to the world of Pokemon; for this point, I just want the map to be as open as it was in the originals. Since HMs have been given the boot, Sinnoh will likely be easier to traverse than in DP (which is actually a good thing), but I think they should try to implement the previously HM-dependent paths that litter Sinnoh in some way, give us a reason to come back to certain areas. Don't just convert the middle of the map into a SwSh quality Wild Area and then box us in the rest of the time. Because that would be boring.
4. Better Mon Distribution: As often noted, DP have some issues in terms of how certain types are distributed. Just do a better job balancing the types; make the Magmar line available during the main game, move some of those Ice types to an earlier route (given how much they struggle, it is inherently dumb for Ice types to be locked to so late in the game. Sinnoh is a cold region, so now would be a logical time to break this stupid tradition), just get a nice balance of mons throughout each part of the region. I'm personally of the opinion that all non-Legendary/whatever mons should be at least theoretically available before the Pokemon league, but I understand the desire to not overcrowd any areas.

There are more things I'd ideally want (namely improved animation/models), but realistically those aren't going to happen mid-gen. I do think that the points I did list are all manageable to some extent, so that's why I focused on them.
 
Let's say you kind of struck one of the reasons for which Fortnite, Hearthstone and Mobas, and hell, even Pokemon Go are so popular nowadays, while other genres like RTS are slowly fading out of popularity: it's games you can pick up, play a match or two, and quit istantly when bored (as well as altf4 with very little penalty most of the time), with no preparation or commitment required.

As I said a few times, I don't think GameFreak's opinion on "modern kids liking games they can pick and drop on the fly" is wrong. Might not be due to low attention span or lazyness or dumbness, but they are spot on on the read.

I don't see what that has anything to do with the conversation. Pokemon isn't a RTS. Infact, Pokemon was made so you can pick it up, play for a bit, save & put it down going back whenever you're ready.

I keep saying inevitable because I know it will happen, but the public is so desperate to not realize we are following a already set formula.

Yeah, like I'm sure Pokemon Gray, Z, and SwSh2 will dropping any day now too.

Yeah, we can't really rely on a formula anymore as GF has sort of broke it and it's not certain what they would do. Thought BW was getting an enhanced "Gray" version? Nope, paired sequel games. Though XY was getting enhanced/sequels? Nope, was passed in favor of releasing next gen for 20th Anniversary. Heard SM was getting paired games and thought they were sequels? Nope, both are "enhanced" versions. And now DLC has essentially added what an enhanced/sequel version SwSh would have added so what we have of Galar now is all we're getting.

As for remakes, the usual pattern for them is they're released during the gen on a new console. Gen III on the GBA got FRLG, Gen IV on the DS got HGSS, Gen V was still on DS so got no remake, Gen VI on 3DS got ORAS, Gen VII was also on 3DS so got no remake. Now, Gen VIII is the first gen on the Switch... but there's a new element to the "remake" formula: Let's Go. Does LGPE count as this gen's remake? Is it it's own separate series? Or does it count as a pseudo-remake where it can take the place of a core series remake for the first gen on a new console but if there's another gen on the console a core series remake will (very likely) be made then.

If it takes the place of a core series remake, then we're not getting Sinnoh remakes until console after the Switch. If it's own separate series, well tradition thus state Sinnoh remakes are coming soon. But if they count as a pseudo-remake (which I think they do), that means we won't be seeing Sinnoh remakes for Gen VIII BUT I have a feeling we'll get at least one more Gen (IX) on the Switch thus Sinnoh remakes will be coming out then (and likely the mechanics implemented in the debut games for Gen IX may also be tailored it would be something they can easily implement into the Sinnoh games, infact maybe they'll go back to something like Mega Evos and/or Z-Moves for that reason and keep those features on a rotation instead of us having to wait until Gen VI and VII remakes; maybe we'll even get some additional Ultra Beasts which would fit Sinnoh's spacetime theme).

Impressing your friends through single player accomplishment is a lot harder in the age of the Internet. If you want to do something difficult in a Pokemon game, chances are a thousand people have already done it, and a hundred have uploaded YouTube videos on it. Less impressive. Further, Pokemon accomplishments themselves are almost automatically less hard because you have so much more information access, even if the trainers and battles don't change at all, and exciting discovery can feel almost impossible. It's a lot easier to excel within your in person friend group than within the entire world.

But this is also ignoring a part of Pokemon which is central to it's design: interaction with other players. Sure, maybe you beating the Battle Frontier isn't special, but in a Pokemon Battle 99.9% of the time it comes out with one player defeating another. Now that doesn't mean the winning trainer is better than the losing trainer, but rather the winning trainer just had a better strategy going & luck for that battle. But if they battled again maybe the other trainer would win, or maybe that trainer just needs to change up something about their team, or maybe the winning trainer decides to change around their team. Infact, going back to beating the Battle Frontier "not" being special, the fact alone isn't special BUT what is special is possibly the Pokemon used to have won over the Battle Facilities. They could have used completely different Pokemon & strategies the other didn't think of or maybe thought wasn't good (or couldn't get working themselves). The statement should be "I defeated the Battle Tower" it should be "I defeated the Battle Tower WITH THESE POKEMON (and strategies)".

If GF's concern is attracting players than making the games easier isn't going to do it, but maybe focusing in on the interaction aspect of the franchise will. Now sure you can already just turn on the PokeTool in the game and have a random battle with someone, but that's not really engaging as you're just battling a random stranger. Rather, GF could do things like:
  • Make it so you can see other player's Hall of Fame teams and challenging a simulation of that team (or can check to see the player is on and challenge them to a friendly match).
  • Whenever you get a new Pokemon and you're thinking of a nickname show a list of nicknames other trainers have given that Pokemon (and maybe let players give thumbs up if they like some nicknames).
  • Have a sort of "community chest" where players can just leave a Pokemon or Item for another player to pick up, and if they do the player who left the Pokemon/item gets a reward in return like money/BP/rare item/whatever. I imagine they could even have a special one for the Pokemon Daycare for players to randomly get an Egg (aka tossing away your extra bred eggs once you got the Pokemon you want without having to spend the next hour hatching them just to release them).
  • Dyanamax Adventure's popularity shows player has an interest in multiplayer modes, so maybe implement a multiplayer mode in Battle Facilities. Tag Battles, Races, maybe have all trainers fought in the Battle Facility be other players.
  • Gen VII had a really good idea with the Festival Plaza Global Missions, they just botched the execution (in timing, goal, types of challenges, awards...). However the idea has merit and if they actually put some thought into it I think it could have people returning to play Pokemon more often if not a bit daily. Heck, maybe even create "Daily Challenges".
  • Another good idea which may not have reached its full potential was the WiFi Plaza in Gen IV. A theme park filled with multiplayer minigames is ripe to be expanded upon (not only in different kind of mini-games but also maybe different kind of locations aside from a theme park).
All sorts of minor and major ways to create a sense of community and interactivity.

remember when people though Silver was intricate and fleshed out?

While Silver may not be as complex as N or Gladion, I would say Silver has plenty of more depth to him than other characters and goes through a story arc that I would say fleshes him out.

Yes, please feel free to (dis)agree.

Let's not be petty now. I know temperaments can easily fly when you're arguing with someone with differing opinions but remember what you're talking about. AKA this isn't a political debate about a hot button topic affecting millions of lives, we're talking about a children's card game. Finland just saw the conversation was going in circles and kindly decided to bow out.

On another note
For what I've seen, this is so true for many people. Not for me, you are still a mess, X and Y.

Yeah, my opinions on XY hasn't changed either. REALLY needed Z version to expand on a few things (and Z version needed to be sequels not enhanced versions).

And while I can see people looking back more fondly on SM, I don't think USUM will look any better.

SwSh may be looked on more positively thanks for those playing later on having the DLC, but that doesn't fix problems with the base game so if anything it'll probably create mixed feelings.

I'm not sure Dynamax outside of Galar would be that immersion breaking. Eternatus's power may be localized in Galar, but Calyrex's blue glow suggests that Eternatus isn't the only way to Dynamax. They could easily explain it as the energy from some mysterious Pokemon who is said to sleep at the peak of Mt. Coronet (aka Arceus).

I think the issue would be more with how it would be implemented in the story and especially the Gym Challenge. Will they change the Gyms in Sinnoh to be like the Stadiums in Galar? Would the battle against the Gym Leader maybe take place in a Pokemon Den that are suddenly now in Sinnoh? Or would the Dynamax factor not be part of the Gym Challenge and more implemented as an afterthought for post game sort of like Mega Evolution in Gen VII.
 
I can see Pokémon starting to cycle gimmicks, as in, going back to them every once in a while.

I don't think Dynamax will make its way to Sinnoh. It's so entrenched in Galar's lore that taking it would remove the biggest part of its identity. (Yes, that pun was deliberate.)

Sinnoh would likely go back to Megas or have no blatant gimmick or a brand new one.

I also don't believe the Sinnoh games will interact with SwSh because of Dexit being "a mainstay" now according to GF's big dogs (Don't remember if it was Masuda or Ohmori who said that, pretty sure it was one of them.)

They may step back on this because of the backlash or persist because of DLC. (Mon updates are free, but they're still marketable)

It's really hard to predict what GF is cooking rn.
 
You guys have never played VGC where Dynamax is nearly universally loved and it shows. But this is to be expected on a site where single 6v6 battles are the norm. Its balance in VGC comes from, at least from what I can tell, is that most things tend to run some bulk on them and in a mode where moves that hit both opposing Pokemon as king, D-max moves being single target while the secondary effect affects both Pokemon, depending on what the effect is, is fairly balanced there. And even though those moves damage through protect, a very common move, it only does a quarter of the damage and while it still activates the secondary effects, most of the time those are secondary and those effects have had the effect of making switching a little more prevalent.
I wouldn’t say the whole community loves it. It’s very split- Half of the people love it, half hate it. It’s seems to be very clearly designed around Doubles. Look at Max Airstream. It’s very broken in Singles, since speed control like Trick Room and Tailwind are significantly harder to take advantage of, but in Doubles it’s a lot easier to set up.
 
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I want to add another great addition that only lived until the Sinnoh games and better PRAY the inevitable remakes include it: the Vs Seeker. It's a fun addition to battle any trainer whenever you want and a good training tool, only complaint is that it doesn't work in caves, indoors, etc. for some reason...

If they were willing to put the Trainer's Eyes rematch feature back into ORAS then I think there's a very good chance the Sinnoh remakes will have Vs. Seeker again. They've always tried to be as faithful to the originals as possible with the remakes when it comes to content like this, and even though they haven't done rematches in BW or XY, ORAS still had them, so I'm willing to bet it'll be back in the Sinnoh remakes whenever they come.

Sinnoh would likely go back to Megas or have no blatant gimmick or a brand new one.

Considering the currently existing Megas still have their data in Pokemon Home, the door is always open for them to bring back Megas at any time whenever they feel like they want to incorporate them back in. Plus, not only does TPC evidently absolutely love Mega Evolution (it's super marketable, and a very popular mechanic even to this day), plus the high fan demand for Megas to return, I think there's always the chance that Megas will be back.

Also Sinnoh is pretty close in proximity to Hoenn and Kanto which already have known incorporation of Mega Evolution if ORAS and LGPE are any indication. There's also rumors/speculation of a Let's Go Johto game happening sometime in the future which would also be a divine opportunity to bring back Mega Evolutions. I see no reason why Sinnoh wouldn't feasibly have Megas in that case. Mega Evolution is easily spreadable too, considering it's not necessarily *in* Alola but you can get it post-game there because two people from Kalos give you a Key Stone and the Mega Stones themselves can be carried across regions (same can't be said about Dynamax). I'm not saying Megas *will* return in Sinnoh, but it's feasible.

Megas are too beloved and iconic of a feature in Pokemon at this point to ditch permanently, and they're very marketable which is also a plus for them.

I also don't believe the Sinnoh games will interact with SwSh because of Dexit being "a mainstay" now according to GF's big dogs (Don't remember if it was Masuda or Ohmori who said that, pretty sure it was one of them.)

Maybe they will be able to but with limitations. If nothing else, they could make it so you can transfer Pokemon between Sinnoh games and SwSh through HOME or through trade. If the Regis in particular aren't catchable in Sword and Shield then we'll need that transfer mechanic to be able to get Regigigas in the remakes.

SwSh may be looked on more positively thanks for those playing later on having the DLC, but that doesn't fix problems with the base game so if anything it'll probably create mixed feelings.

Yeah that's the main downside with DLC over enhanced versions. It's more consumer friendly for sure, but when you look at Platinum or USUM, for example, they made changes to the Sinnoh and Alola regions and changed things up to make a somewhat different experience: even the main journey has changes and differences. Sword and Shield's DLC doesn't change up the base game at all: it "adds to" the experience, so mainland Galar is still the same as it was in the base game (and also the design flaws with it are still there and not changed up at all). Third versions don't just add to the games, they change up the base experience quite a lot and the regions themselves gets plenty of aesthetic changes.

If they do end up doing DLC again in the future, either the base game has to be really, really good from the get-go and as good as a third version, or they have to implement DLC in such a way that they can add changes to the base experience.
 
I can see Pokémon starting to cycle gimmicks, as in, going back to them every once in a while.

While I want to say I can see that too... atm I'm having a hard time seeing it. Like, sure, right now we just have 3 super gimmicks (Megas, Z-Moves, & Dynamax), but GF isn't likely going to stop there so if these are put in a "rotation" then when will these gimmicks come back aside from remakes of their region?

I've always argued picking the best of the features and trying to combine them together. Like during the buildup to SwSh I said that they should have recycled the Mega designs for Pokemon that had them for their Gigantamax (and when we move onto a new gen, if they introduce another form changing gimmick or go back to Mega, they can use the Gigantamax designs there (though obviously smaller)). "But the aesthetic behind the designs are different". Yes, I know, Mega Pokemon are meant to look like a radical evolution why Gmax are kaiju based on big structures/features to emphasize their size. But aside from Charizard & Gengar no Pokemon that got a Mega in SwSh got a Gmax so... why not? Because they won't have a unique Gmax move or the changes that Mega got won't be present? That's a decision GF made, they could have easily found ways to adjust things. They allowed the Mega designs to fall to the wayside and while we've seen those designs brought back in other ways, I can't help but feel unless they change their mindset the Gmax designs are even in bigger danger of vanishing (besides, isn't the size thing just a projection? Isn't it implied the Pokemon inside still goes through a form change but it just isn't as big as the projection? Like G-Alcremie is actually 3 meters tall but the projection it creates makes is 30).

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I also don't believe the Sinnoh games will interact with SwSh because of Dexit being "a mainstay" now according to GF's big dogs (Don't remember if it was Masuda or Ohmori who said that, pretty sure it was one of them.)
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If Sinnoh remakes are released for Gen VIII they will be interactable, there's no reason not to be, any Pokemon and Move additions Sinnoh has can be patched in via DLC to SwSh.

Yeah that's the main downside with DLC over enhanced versions. It's more consumer friendly for sure, but when you look at Platinum or USUM, for example, they made changes to the Sinnoh and Alola regions and changed things up to make a somewhat different experience.

(...)

If they do end up doing DLC again in the future, either the base game has to be really, really good from the get-go and as good as a third version, or they have to implement DLC in such a way that they can add changes to the base experience.

Actually my go-to example would be Emerald since you actually battled both teams (even adding in another HQ location for Magma so you battled Maxie there and Archie in the Cave of Origins).

But yeah, if they stick to DLC and the DLC isn't going to change story bits than they're now going to have to make the main game have all the bells and whistles they used to keep until the third version/second paired versions. Also wouldn't hurt to also have DLC that adds onto story event or character stories so there is something being added to the main game even if it's something that happens in post game (or at least after that segment of the story is considered "done" in the main game and you're expected to move on).
 
Ruby and Sapphire are honestly one of the best transitions to a new hardware that Game Freak has ever made, and for base games of their generation, they are damn good and solid.

When you look at other debut Pokemon Games for each platform they've done so far, there have been issues. Red and Blue are a glitchy mess, Diamond and Pearl were sloooww and had issues with not representing the new mons enough, vice versa, you get the drill.

But Ruby and Sapphire are honestly really good and solid experiences, and for such a huge hardware graphical jump from 8 bit Game Boy to the GBA, Ruby and Sapphire were a very good debut title for the GBA and they are really good games on their own. There's a lot of good to say about them:

1. Hoenn is an absolutely wonderful region. It has an incredibly great layout, the biome diversity is great and incredibly cohesive, and there's a lot to explore. You have a desert, a rainforest, and a wetland/swamp, as well as a place surrounded by volcanic ash, and it all fits together incredibly well. I know people criticize Hoenn for having "too much water", but while the water routes are a bit monotonous, they make up for it with underwater exploration, and there's even a secret dungeon to explore off the beaten path! With a new set of legendaries: and the puzzle to reach them was amazing and really made it feel like a journey of discovery.
2. The games run incredibly smoothly. For all the slowness issues that later games experience, Ruby and Sapphire have none of those problems. The running speed in the overworld is very good, the battles run very nicely, and the overall presentation is solid for a GBA game.
3. They added so many great features. This gen really tried to push the notion that there's more to Pokemon than just battling, and it shows. Contests are an awesome feature, and they are honestly a lot of fun! While a lot of Gen 3 Pokemon are not that great in battle, they make up for it by having a lot of contest appeal. Mawile, Sableye, and Castform for example suck in battle but have a lot going for them when it comes to performing in Contests. Let's not forget Secret Bases! Those are honestly a really great feature and promoted interactivity between players. Oh and Double Battles!
4. The new Pokemon are fantastic overall. The Hoenn starters are fantastic, and there's so many awesome Pokemon designs (Gardevoir, Manectric, Aggron, Absol, Flygon, you name it!).
5. Adding on to the above, the games do a fantastic job at showing off their new Pokemon. You see them all pretty regularly, but they're all available to a healthy degree, and have good distribution (better execution than BW1) while having a healthy distribution of past gen Pokemon to incorporate without the past gen mons overshadowing them.
6. The music! The music of Hoenn is absolutely fantastic and memorable and adds to the experience tremendously.

There's probably a good deal more I could say about them, but overall even for the "base" games of their generation, Ruby and Sapphire were absolutely fantastic experiences. Compared to other "third versions", the only things Emerald really needed to fix were the dex cut (RS couldn't transfer from older gens), the lack of a post-game and refining Team Magma and Aqua and their participation in the game (Emerald combines their antagonist roles). The stuff Emerald added was more icing on the cake than having to fix a flawed game like Platinum for example to. Even if you took Emerald out of the equation, RS by themselves stand on their own pretty damn well, and they're still very solid games overall.
 
Ruby and Sapphire are honestly one of the best transitions to a new hardware that Game Freak has ever made, and for base games of their generation, they are damn good and solid.

When you look at other debut Pokemon Games for each platform they've done so far, there have been issues. Red and Blue are a glitchy mess, Diamond and Pearl were sloooww and had issues with not representing the new mons enough, vice versa, you get the drill.

But Ruby and Sapphire are honestly really good and solid experiences, and for such a huge hardware graphical jump from 8 bit Game Boy to the GBA, Ruby and Sapphire were a very good debut title for the GBA and they are really good games on their own. There's a lot of good to say about them:

1. Hoenn is an absolutely wonderful region. It has an incredibly great layout, the biome diversity is great and incredibly cohesive, and there's a lot to explore. You have a desert, a rainforest, and a wetland/swamp, as well as a place surrounded by volcanic ash, and it all fits together incredibly well. I know people criticize Hoenn for having "too much water", but while the water routes are a bit monotonous, they make up for it with underwater exploration, and there's even a secret dungeon to explore off the beaten path! With a new set of legendaries: and the puzzle to reach them was amazing and really made it feel like a journey of discovery.
2. The games run incredibly smoothly. For all the slowness issues that later games experience, Ruby and Sapphire have none of those problems. The running speed in the overworld is very good, the battles run very nicely, and the overall presentation is solid for a GBA game.
3. They added so many great features. This gen really tried to push the notion that there's more to Pokemon than just battling, and it shows. Contests are an awesome feature, and they are honestly a lot of fun! While a lot of Gen 3 Pokemon are not that great in battle, they make up for it by having a lot of contest appeal. Mawile, Sableye, and Castform for example suck in battle but have a lot going for them when it comes to performing in Contests. Let's not forget Secret Bases! Those are honestly a really great feature and promoted interactivity between players. Oh and Double Battles!
4. The new Pokemon are fantastic overall. The Hoenn starters are fantastic, and there's so many awesome Pokemon designs (Gardevoir, Manectric, Aggron, Absol, Flygon, you name it!).
5. Adding on to the above, the games do a fantastic job at showing off their new Pokemon. You see them all pretty regularly, but they're all available to a healthy degree, and have good distribution (better execution than BW1) while having a healthy distribution of past gen Pokemon to incorporate without the past gen mons overshadowing them.
6. The music! The music of Hoenn is absolutely fantastic and memorable and adds to the experience tremendously.

There's probably a good deal more I could say about them, but overall even for the "base" games of their generation, Ruby and Sapphire were absolutely fantastic experiences. Compared to other "third versions", the only things Emerald really needed to fix were the dex cut (RS couldn't transfer from older gens), the lack of a post-game and refining Team Magma and Aqua and their participation in the game (Emerald combines their antagonist roles). The stuff Emerald added was more icing on the cake than having to fix a flawed game like Platinum for example to. Even if you took Emerald out of the equation, RS by themselves stand on their own pretty damn well, and they're still very solid games overall.
Although it was the best, it sadly screwed over later gens
The "notify of every single action/prompt" that was slower than Gen 1/2 still plagues the games till this day. The palette being rigid unlike 2s ability for the day night cycle also is a downgrade. And then some people note it started the legendary spam, and having more crazy plots for villain motives (not that I find either negative, but still)
And despite it being the most solid new entry....from what I've seen, 3 is underlooked heavily among the fanbase, probably due to Pokemania being dead. 4 was a reignition cuz DS was a force admittedly, while 3 was pirated like crazy
 
Although it was the best, it sadly screwed over later gens
The "notify of every single action/prompt" that was slower than Gen 1/2 still plagues the games till this day. The palette being rigid unlike 2s ability for the day night cycle also is a downgrade. And then some people note it started the legendary spam, and having more crazy plots for villain motives (not that I find either negative, but still)

I think that's more on Game Freak themselves than Gen 3. Game Freak was probably so satisfied with how Gen 3's model turned out that they've more or less stuck to it ever since, and the latter two are more Game Freak having been constantly been stuck in the Gen 3 model mentality since, since subsequent Gens despite the changes they've brought have repeatedly attempted to mimic or imitate the Ruby and Sapphire formula, to varying degrees of success. Gen 4 and Gen 5 worked fine with it since naturally, it was still the 2D era, but it became more of a problem with the 3D games where you already have the spinoffs (Stadium, Colosseum, XD, etc.) as a comparison point, and the 3D games onwards have a lot of unfulfilled potential in that regard.

And despite it being the most solid new entry....from what I've seen, 3 is underlooked heavily among the fanbase, probably due to Pokemania being dead.

It's funny you mention that, because Masuda said a few years ago that because of the situation of Pokemania dying at the time, Ruby and Sapphire were the most difficult/stressful games to develop. The games themselves were not that hard to develop in terms of hardware and vice versa, but the stress was compounded by the issue of Pokemon slowly "fading" away into obscurity, creating a huge pressure for Game Freak to prove the world wrong with RS by saying "No, it's not dead and Pokemon's gonna keep on living".

Why Ruby And Sapphire Were The Most Challenging Pokémon To Make - Game Informer

The above is Masuda's account of how stressful it was to develop RS, but that they were determined to try to make it succeed, and it did pretty well, much to his relief.

Another interesting tidbit is that it seems (if I'm reading it right) he had already conceived not only Gen 3, but had already planned the start of Gen 4 from the start all the way back early in Gen 3's development. Even during RS's development, he already had all of Gen 3 planned out, not only to release RS as the new debut games, but that FireRed and LeafGreen would come after Ruby and Sapphire to complement them, then Gen 4's titles on their next platform would be named Diamond and Pearl, and that they would work to ensure FRLG and RS could transfer Hoenn and Kanto Pokemon to DP.

And frankly, it would seem that long term plan out really worked well.
 
Ruby and Sapphire are were not seen so favourably partly because of the "soft" dexit they included.

I mean, out of a sudden, you can transfer none of the content from Gold, Silver, and Crystal. Even if they had understandable reasons for not including trading, some people got mad.

And then there was the strong association with the anime and the fact they coincided with the big changes in the ensemble main characters cast...

These games had their chance to recover after all the missing Pokémon were brought back through other games, but then came Emerald.
 
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Ruby and Sapphire are not seen so favourably partly because of the "soft" dexit they included.

I mean, out of a sudden, you can transfer none of the content from Gold, Silver, and Crystal. Even if they had understandable reasons for not including trading, some people got mad.

And then there was the strong association with the anime and the fact they coincided with the big changes in the ensemble main characters cast...
Maybe 10 years ago but idt anyone really cares about the soft dexit and especially not the anime cast anymore. The real reason for OG RS not being discussed much nowadays is just because Emerald and ORAS have taken all its spotlight
 
Let's not be petty now. I know temperaments can easily fly when you're arguing with someone with differing opinions but remember what you're talking about. AKA this isn't a political debate about a hot button topic affecting millions of lives, we're talking about a children's card game. Finland just saw the conversation was going in circles and kindly decided to bow out.

I wasn't being petty :o I agree completely with what you've said.

Ruby and Sapphire are honestly one of the best transitions to a new hardware that Game Freak has ever made, and for base games of their generation, they are damn good and solid.

When you look at other debut Pokemon Games for each platform they've done so far, there have been issues. Red and Blue are a glitchy mess, Diamond and Pearl were sloooww and had issues with not representing the new mons enough, vice versa, you get the drill.

But Ruby and Sapphire are honestly really good and solid experiences, and for such a huge hardware graphical jump from 8 bit Game Boy to the GBA, Ruby and Sapphire were a very good debut title for the GBA and they are really good games on their own. There's a lot of good to say about them:

1. Hoenn is an absolutely wonderful region. It has an incredibly great layout, the biome diversity is great and incredibly cohesive, and there's a lot to explore. You have a desert, a rainforest, and a wetland/swamp, as well as a place surrounded by volcanic ash, and it all fits together incredibly well. I know people criticize Hoenn for having "too much water", but while the water routes are a bit monotonous, they make up for it with underwater exploration, and there's even a secret dungeon to explore off the beaten path! With a new set of legendaries: and the puzzle to reach them was amazing and really made it feel like a journey of discovery.
2. The games run incredibly smoothly. For all the slowness issues that later games experience, Ruby and Sapphire have none of those problems. The running speed in the overworld is very good, the battles run very nicely, and the overall presentation is solid for a GBA game.
3. They added so many great features. This gen really tried to push the notion that there's more to Pokemon than just battling, and it shows. Contests are an awesome feature, and they are honestly a lot of fun! While a lot of Gen 3 Pokemon are not that great in battle, they make up for it by having a lot of contest appeal. Mawile, Sableye, and Castform for example suck in battle but have a lot going for them when it comes to performing in Contests. Let's not forget Secret Bases! Those are honestly a really great feature and promoted interactivity between players. Oh and Double Battles!
4. The new Pokemon are fantastic overall. The Hoenn starters are fantastic, and there's so many awesome Pokemon designs (Gardevoir, Manectric, Aggron, Absol, Flygon, you name it!).
5. Adding on to the above, the games do a fantastic job at showing off their new Pokemon. You see them all pretty regularly, but they're all available to a healthy degree, and have good distribution (better execution than BW1) while having a healthy distribution of past gen Pokemon to incorporate without the past gen mons overshadowing them.
6. The music! The music of Hoenn is absolutely fantastic and memorable and adds to the experience tremendously.

There's probably a good deal more I could say about them, but overall even for the "base" games of their generation, Ruby and Sapphire were absolutely fantastic experiences. Compared to other "third versions", the only things Emerald really needed to fix were the dex cut (RS couldn't transfer from older gens), the lack of a post-game and refining Team Magma and Aqua and their participation in the game (Emerald combines their antagonist roles). The stuff Emerald added was more icing on the cake than having to fix a flawed game like Platinum for example to. Even if you took Emerald out of the equation, RS by themselves stand on their own pretty damn well, and they're still very solid games overall.

Agreed. Hoenn is dope. Wish they kept more of the older Pokemon, but otherwise super solid.

I will admit I as a kid wasn't crazy about Hoenn, I preferred Johto/Kanto and even Sinnoh. As an adult Hoenn is one of my favorites.
 
Regarding the "too much water" issue is that the water routes are pretty repetitive since you encounter pretty much the same 3 Pokemon unless you want to be picky and count Lati@s. So the only way you encounter other Pokemon that are not Wingull, Tentacool and Pelipper is to dive or to fish. And fishing is the worst thing in Gen 3 because you now have to play a stupid minigame and you may still encounter Tentacool.

There are few water places where you can encounter something else but the three Pokemon mentioned like small water places where you encounter Marill, and already common Pokemon on the land with only a 1% chance to get a Surskit (or Goldini in Emerald).
Oh, and in caves you are encountering Zubat and Golbat which you encounter already on foot.

Yeah, I dislike the water routes because it rarely feels like it would be more interesting if it where land where you can encounter a larger selection of Pokemon than on water. I wish they added more flying types not named Wingull like they added Zubat and Golbat in caves. Considering we are in Generation 3 and not 2 where there are larger selection of Pokemon that could be encountered, it would be far more beneficial.

The best thing I can say about the water routes is that you can swim relatively fast unlike in prior gens and DP. And it still baffles me that there is no speed up option in the VC games like in Stadium 1 or 2.
 
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The palette being rigid unlike 2s ability for the day night cycle also is a downgrade.
I'd also say the day night cycle not being included was also a recognition of the GBA's limitations, since darker pallets are difficult to see with no backlight. The overworld sprites and textures probably would be difficult to distinguish if it was shifted to a night palette. I pulled out my original GBA and threw in Ruby to see how it looked, and it's pretty murky and hard to see, even in a well lit room. The overall style still comes through, but I think R/S really shines with a backlight. I'll give it credit for looking good without a backlight, but I think shifting the pallets for a day / night cycle would have cut against the game far more than keeping it in.

Castlevania: Circle of the Moon, as a GBA launch title, was noted as being dark and difficult to see, and I think a lot of developers took that criticism into consideration when developing GBA games and figured brighter colors and styles would translate better on the GBA's screen (at least until the GBA SP released).
 
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Regarding the "too much water" issue is that the water routes are pretty repetitive since you encounter pretty much the same 3 Pokemon unless you want to be picky and count Lati@s. So the only way you encounter other Pokemon that are not Wingull, Tentacool and Pelipper is to dive or to fish. And fishing is the worst thing in Gen 3 because you now have to play a stupid minigame and you may still encounter Tentacool.

There are few water places where you can encounter something else but the three Pokemon mentioned like small water places where you encounter Marill, and already common Pokemon on the land with only a 1% chance to get a Surskit (or Goldini in Emerald).
Oh, and in caves you are encountering Zubat and Golbat which you encounter already on foot.

Yeah, I dislike the water routes because it rarely feels like it would be more interesting if it where land where you can encounter a larger selection of Pokemon than on water. I wish they added more flying types not named Wingull like they added Zubat and Golbat in caves. Considering we are in Generation 3 and not 2 where there are larger selection of Pokemon that could be encountered, it would be far more beneficial.

The best thing I can say about the water routes is that you can swim relatively fast unlike in prior gens and DP. And it still baffles me that there is no speed up option in the VC games like in Stadium 1 or 2.
Agreed. When I was editing wild mon spawn, I was disgusted at the low diversity for water routes. Add >60% envounter rate, that gets old quick
Sadly even if you got all Gen 1-3 water mons, it still isn't enough. GF really didn't know how to split up distribution
 
1. Hoenn is an absolutely wonderful region. It has an incredibly great layout, the biome diversity is great and incredibly cohesive, and there's a lot to explore. You have a desert, a rainforest, and a wetland/swamp, as well as a place surrounded by volcanic ash, and it all fits together incredibly well. I know people criticize Hoenn for having "too much water", but while the water routes are a bit monotonous, they make up for it with underwater exploration, and there's even a secret dungeon to explore off the beaten path! With a new set of legendaries: and the puzzle to reach them was amazing and really made it feel like a journey of discovery.
2. The games run incredibly smoothly. For all the slowness issues that later games experience, Ruby and Sapphire have none of those problems. The running speed in the overworld is very good, the battles run very nicely, and the overall presentation is solid for a GBA game.

Only generation that runs at 60 fps, that's an acomplishment. And Hoenn is probably my favorite region ever, I always was looking forward what else is to explore. Even in the water sections where you can find stuff like underwater corridors, Sootopolis City (polis city, redundancy much?), Sky Tower, etc.

Maybe 10 years ago but idt anyone really cares about the soft dexit and especially not the anime cast anymore. The real reason for OG RS not being discussed much nowadays is just because Emerald and ORAS have taken all its spotlight

Oh right, I heard they changed the voice cast Battle Frontier onward, and it was veeeeeery controversial (and on the 10th anniversary no less!). Here in Latin America this didn't happen, but midway in Sinnoh Ash got a new voice actor who still is to this day. This change was controversial af, I am pretty neutral towards it because Ash's previous voice was already losing his luster at that point so it didn't affect me.
 
FRLG always gets snubbed because "Kanto bad!! Kanto overrated!!" despite undeniably being the best iteration of Kanto and being one of the best games in the series overall. The only true flaws with FRLG are the unecessary trade and evolution restrictions, but it has probably the best postgame of any game in the series; Sevii Isles 4-7 I feel are so different from any other location in the game. It also very naturally integrates Johto Pokémon into the Sevii Isles. I also love how many call-backs there are to Gen 2: the remastered Violet City, Azalea Town and Lake of Rage music, as well as the Togepi egg and Team Rocket prelude (and I am absolutely offended that FRLG flawlessly set up HGSS's storyline and there is not a SINGLE mention in HGSS of the Sevii Isles).

I personally would consider FRLG the best remake out of the three.
 
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