Unpopular opinions

[Bakugames]

The main issue that I have is that most megas are just marketing before design. They all look like they were made to sell as much as possible and then later on someone slapped whatever felt "broken" on their stats/abilities/moves and called it a day. They all feel edgy (or just milking the pokemon's cuteness as much as feasibly possible) 10-year-old action toys. The megas that don't fit this instead has the vibe of "just get over with this we have other stuff to work on" (see: mega kangashkan, mega slowbro, etc). The latter are ironically the best designs overall because they don't feel like someone is trying to make the most objectively cutting throat design or whatever

Sometimes I wonder if gamefreak feels the same way considering most of the #cool megas got fucked up dex entries, or if it was to make them seem even more cool or whatever.

 

[The Mind Electric]

The main issue that I have is that most megas are just marketing before design. They all look like they were made to sell as much as possible and then later on someone slapped whatever felt "broken" on their stats/abilities/moves and called it a day. They all feel edgy (or just milking the pokemon's cuteness as much as feasibly possible) 10-year-old action toys. The megas that don't fit this instead has the vibe of "just get over with this we have other stuff to work on" (see: mega kangashkan, mega slowbro, etc). The latter are ironically the best designs overall because they don't feel like someone is trying to make the most objectively cutting throat design or whatever

Sometimes I wonder if gamefreak feels the same way considering most of the #cool megas got fucked up dex entries, or if it was to make them seem even more cool or whatever.

Mega Evolutions are dark and edgy, like my soul.

 

[ThatOneSpork]

Obviously all of this is of personally opinion... BUT I HARD disagree Megas were a lazy addition.

Want to make it clear, I am not saying mega evolution is a bad mechanic. In fact, I do still like some of the megas more than gmax pokemon. But I am pretty tired of people hating on it for no apparent reason other than "It isn't creative, megas were better, it's lazy." I also admit that I obviously did not have the best first post and missed out on a lot of obvious things, thanks Pikachu315111 for displaying more of it and in a better format. So one thing I think people don't think of is the raid battles. While some people may not consider them part of the mechanic, I would count them as a definite pro as they are a way to get good items while still providing some amount of challenge, a way to play with friends, get new pokemon, and also get a way to find legendaries. Speaking of which, the dynamax adventures somewhat remind me of emeralds battle tents in a way, which I always thought were fun. Now this is all invalidated if you want to ignore raid battles, but I think that's a bit unfair, as I would count some of the points that are going towards the Z-Crystals case are the trials, which are in and of themselves their own little minigame of sorts. Then looking at how to obtain every mega stone on bulbapedia, most of them seem to be much less interesting. In sun and moon, 27 of the stones were event exclusive. That leaves 21 to obtain in-game. Now, the way that these ones are received appears to be almost entirely from purchasing them at the battle tree. The battle tree itself isn't made to be an extremely different experience from anything else, not supposed to be anything other than a place to battle to earn points. So the way of obtaining most mega stones in these games is either from an event or playing multiple battles in a row. Not the most exciting thing compared to a special trial or a form of the Slateport battle tent. (also from what I can tell x/y and or/as don't appear to have the most interesting way of finding them either.)

What are the other unloved Gigantamax pokemon? Aside from Garbodor, all of them are from either Gen 1 or Gen 8. No Gen 1 pokemon can be called unloved, and I don't think they gave any Gen 8 mon a Gigantamax form just because they predicted it would be unpopular.

The mentioned Kingler is a rather unloved one, and I could also see Butterfree and Lapras as some more unloved ones. Obviously, their cameos in the anime are the main reason why they are a bit iffier than Kingler and Garbodor.

I wish they'd just continue introducing cross-gen evos; none of the 3-stage families who received a mega were crying out for it besides like, Beedrill? Maybe Ampharos? And with regards to Beedrill, they honestly should've just given it and other Pokémon a significant stat buff that maximises their role more.

Yeah, I can understand why you say this, but we know from experience that game freak is a stickler for keeping already made pokemon as they originally were. (exceptions being in abilities)

Ugh, no, I don't think that's the case at all. I think the reason why Gen VI started making less new species of Pokemon (which, if you'll notice, kept happening even after they stopped making new Megas) is because we're getting pretty close to the big 1k and I don't think GF are quite ready to cross that threshold. So, only solution was to not introduce as many new species of Pokemon.

I definitely think this is the case, which raises another point. New pokemon are always fun and cool, but eventually, everything is going to get so convoluted with the amount of pokemon and that's when I think the games will stop. But that's a discussion for another day.

The main issue that I have is that most megas are just marketing before design. They all look like they were made to sell as much as possible and then later on someone slapped whatever felt "broken" on their stats/abilities/moves and called it a day. They all feel edgy (or just milking the pokemon's cuteness as much as feasibly possible) 10-year-old action toys. The megas that don't fit this instead has the vibe of "just get over with this we have other stuff to work on" (see: mega kangashkan, mega slowbro, etc). The latter are ironically the best designs overall because they don't feel like someone is trying to make the most objectively cutting throat design or whatever

Now that I think about this I definitely agree, especially when you consider how pokemon is generally a more child-friendly game. Obviously we all know the main exceptions to this (Drifloon, Hypno, etc.) , but even then it's really just more of a creepy story. But then look at the mega's dex entries -
"Due to the colossal power poured into it, this Pokémon’s back split right open. Its destructive instincts are the only thing keeping it moving." (Ttar)
"Anyone standing in its path gets sliced right in two, while this Pokémon continues its flight without interruption." (Salamence)
"Its intellect surpasses its previous level, resulting in battles so cruel, they’ll make you want to cover your eyes." (Metagross)
But now look at the ones that were given an example of.
"Tremendous energy strengthened the power of the Shellder on its tail, but it doesn’t really affect Slowpoke."
"Thanks to Mega Evolution, its child grows. But as the child is good only at fighting and nothing else, its mother feels uneasy about its future." (Kangaskhan)
"Excess energy from Mega Evolution stimulates its genes, and the wool it had lost grows in again." (Ampharos)
None of these seem to be made to look cuter or edgier. They all just are cool concepts, which I all like. You can also kinda tell that these were the more throwaway ones, the ones they thought "Ehhh, I guess it needs a buff."

 

[aegon the unlikely]

Y'all tripping. Mega Evolutions are awesome!

I have yet to see or think of a single Mega that I've disliked. The edgy stuff, on the other hand...

 

[Merritt]

Then looking at how to obtain every mega stone on bulbapedia, most of them seem to be much less interesting. In sun and moon, 27 of the stones were event exclusive. That leaves 21 to obtain in-game. Now, the way that these ones are received appears to be almost entirely from purchasing them at the battle tree. The battle tree itself isn't made to be an extremely different experience from anything else, not supposed to be anything other than a place to battle to earn points. So the way of obtaining most mega stones in these games is either from an event or playing multiple battles in a row. Not the most exciting thing compared to a special trial or a form of the Slateport battle tent. (also from what I can tell x/y and or/as don't appear to have the most interesting way of finding them either.)

I think it's a little bit unfair to go with SM's method of obtaining mega stones as a point against megas as a mechanic, partially because it was pretty clear at that point that GF wasn't particularly interested in megas anymore and were basically just putting them in through some level of obligation. More importantly though, the point here in particular is actually somewhat misleading since it's only in SM not USM and (with the sole exception of the Kanto starter mega stones, probably because they wanted to make Red special) it's that all the mega stones obtainable outside events are for the Pokemon it's possible to get in SM without trading or Bank.

It was a solid two months before the Pokemon for the unobtainable mega stones were possible to get ingame legally, and it's very plausible that this made people on the dev team decide to not have the completely useless items in the game from launch, especially for an expensive BP price. At that point GF's hatred of patching games kicked in and the remaining mega stones were left as event exclusive, only being buyable ingame in USM.

Personally I think the Gigantamax designs look pretty bad all around, especially when you compare them on Pokemon who already had a mega, and their gameplay integration is actually horrific without the DLC since obtaining a Gigantamax for yourself requires a bunch of RNG with grinding out raid battles. Meanwhile their impact on gameplay compared to Dynamax is such a minor benefit ingame (and sometimes a strict downgrade) that they're really not worth going for. This of course being on top of how Dynamax is absolutely as much of a win button as megas, just restricted to only almost every important battle and having an even longer activation and ending animation.

 

[Magcargo]

I absolutely agree with you. Recently, the issue of the right to marriage and family for same-sex couples has been very actively discussed. In the era of total freedom, democracy and openness, this topic remains quite taboo. I recently read a pretty interesting essay on the right to marriage and family for same-sex couples on (MOD EDIT: Spam link removed) Once upon a time, marriage was seen as something completely different from what it is now. It's a commitment between two people, and the definition, according to Google, is, "in some jurisdictions, it's a union between a man and a woman." This commitment varies by culture. What do you think about this?

This is quite interesting, but I don't think this is the best thread to discuss this topic (unless there's something I'm missing).

However I'm all for blaming Dynamax & Gigantamax for Dexit because GF made them all separate models thus likely filled up so much memory it became very hard (if not impossible) to fit all Pokemon in vanilla Sword & Shield.

Honestly, I doubt this is the actual reason they excluded the Pokemon. I could be wrong, but from what I've experienced as a programmer, data / file-size almost never matters nowdays unless you are doing low-level stuff in C / Assembly (which was the case with the Gameboy games). I think the actual reason that not all Pokemon are included is to better accommodate new players. Outside of event mons, its possible to catch every Pokemon in the game (either by paying for the DLC or through online Raids) so new players don't need to purchase a separate system to obtain everything.

On that note, my (somewhat?) unpopular opinion is that the Crown Tundra should have brought back way less legendaries and more regular Pokemon. Can't speak for other tiers, but I thought the OU and BSS metagames were more interesting back in the Isle of Armor metagame. Yeah, a lot of the top tiers like Cinderace, Dragapult, Corviknight, etc. were the same, but the lower overall power level meant that a lot more underutilized mons like Rotom-H and Toxtricity could shine. It was actually quite refreshing to see more "regular" Pokemon be viable and making use of their unique attributes. While this is still possible in the current meta, its less incentived since the benefits of legendaries like Zapdos and Heatran are just too good to pass up. I would have much preferred it if other unique mons like Eelektross, Crabominable, and Gliscor came back instead.

 

[Worldie]

On that note, my (somewhat?) unpopular opinion is that the Crown Tundra should have brought back way less legendaries and more regular Pokemon.

Doesn't work.

Every generation since gen 6 has needed a way to make all current gen legendaries (aka, non breedable but VGC legal) available. Even if gen 8 introduced battle-ready marks (one of the best features btw), it's in GF's interest to make sure that any person who starts the game in the current generation has a realistic way to obtain them (aka, not get ridicolously lucky getting cloned leges off GTS)

There must always be a lich king hoopa-ring clone in some form.

The only way in which Tundra could have skipped bringing back all the non-mythical legendaries would have been if it wasn't the final DLC of the generation.

 

[Yung Dramps]

Doesn't work.

Every generation since gen 6 has needed a way to make all current gen legendaries (aka, non breedable but VGC legal) available. Even if gen 8 introduced battle-ready marks (one of the best features btw), it's in GF's interest to make sure that any person who starts the game in the current generation has a realistic way to obtain them (aka, not get ridicolously lucky getting cloned leges off GTS)

There must always be a lich king hoopa-ring clone in some form.

The only way in which Tundra could have skipped bringing back all the non-mythical legendaries would have been if it wasn't the final DLC of the generation.

This is a problem in a post-dexit world where catching them all no longer matters because...?

Even if it was "needed" I still think it could've been done better. What if both DLCs had Dynamax Adventures with IoA having Gens 1-4 while CT had 5-7? That would space it out a bit, make things less overwhelming for players of any format official or otherwise.

 

[Worldie]

This is a problem in a post-dexit world where catching them all no longer matters because...?

You're still thinking we're not going to have all ~1k by next gen are you

You forgot Dexit was just a excuse for "we havent had time to bring them over yet".

 

[SpiritGuy]

I have no Pokedex I dislike and I think every one has their charm. Gen 1 (and also Gen 2) Pokemon have pretty cartoonish and childish designs, but that was the whole point of Pokemon at is beginning: appeal to children. Next, we had Gen 3 design, which I often see criticized for being too far of the original ones. But the fact is Gen 3 (that could also being said for Gen 5) is considered as a reboot, or at least a new beginning for the franchise, so pretty "rebooted" designs make sense. Moreover, Gen 3's scenario puts forward the creation of the Pokémon world, so the Pokedex has many legend or even biblic-based Pokemon: the legendary trio, Grumpig which is inspired by a phrse from Gospel of Matthew, even Slaking can be a reference to the deadly sin sloth.
To stick to the idea of "odd" designs, I'll talk about Gen 7's ones, which could go hand-in-hand to the exotical side of the region and the stats it's based on.
Finally, all Gen 8 Pokedex makes reference to Great Britain and its culture. Lockstin and Gnoggin published a video about this btw.

 

[Yung Dramps]

You're still thinking we're not going to have all ~1k by next gen are you

You forgot Dexit was just a excuse for "we havent had time to bring them over yet".

It's been nearly 2 years, time to get past stage 1 of grief

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I feel like considering Pokemon Home has all 898 Pokemon so far and is functioning as a transfer system from Gen 7/Bank to Gen 8, they will need to have all of them transferable to a mainline game in some form.

There are slots for at least eight different Pokemon games, and four of them are already filled as Let's Go, Pikachu, Let's Go Eevee, Sword, and Shield, and it's safe to assume two more will be filled by Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl, which leaves room for two more games that will be HOME compatible in the future. One of them might be Legends: Arceus, but that depends on whether that will have online functionality considering the setting of that game.

We still have BDSP awaiting release, and it's clear that despite Dexit, the DLC tried to add a lot of Pokemon back into Gen 8 through both halves of the expansion, and another group of Pokemon will definitely return in BDSP for sure (especially all of the missing Sinnoh mythicals, starters, Staraptor, Kricketune, Floatzel, etc.). Gliscor in particular is an almost certain candidate to return when Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl come out. It remains to be seen however if BDSP will have Gen 5+ Pokemon in it, which means stuff like Eelektross, Sawsbuck, Zebstrika, Swanna, Pyroar, Florges, Gogoat, Minior, and vice versa are still up in the air as to whether they will appear or not.

Considering past remakes, even FRLG, had Pokemon not in the originals in them, there's a decent chance BDSP will do the same, but the Gen 5+ Pokemon that are still absent from Gen 8 are still the big question as to whether they will be reinstated in Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl. It is my hope that those Pokemon I mentioned will appear in BDSP in some form or another, but time will tell.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Honestly, I doubt this is the actual reason they excluded the Pokemon.

I know, or at least I'd like to. It's just never before did they have a problem including the National Dex. The excuse they gave, I believe it was to make the graphics/animations better or something, didn't turn out true unless they were talking about the few new animations they made for Pokemon Camp which, ~woo~, worth the culling. I had hoped maybe this meant they were actually going to really focus on the Pokemon returning in the Regional Dex and actually work on improving their Stats, Movepool, and Abilities... Nope, nothing changed there for the most part. And with hearing the Dynamax Pokemon are all their own models and knowing GF rarely compress data as long as the available memory can hold it, the cynical side of me makes me think they simply ran out of room for the National Dex (without having to go back and see what they could compress along with also compressing all the Pokemon data). And, no, including the Pokemon in the National Dex doesn't mean they couldn't include them in the DLC, all that would mean you'd be able to easily access them via the DLC instead of relying on transfer.

On that note, my (somewhat?) unpopular opinion is that the Crown Tundra should have brought back way less legendaries and more regular Pokemon.

Every generation since gen 6 has needed a way to make all current gen legendaries (aka, non breedable but VGC legal) available. Even if gen 8 introduced battle-ready marks (one of the best features btw), it's in GF's interest to make sure that any person who starts the game in the current generation has a realistic way to obtain them (aka, not get ridicolously lucky getting cloned leges off GTS)

While I did have fun with the Dynamax Adventures, one little thing that does sort of bug me is that there's really no reason why there's all the Legendaries down there. Some just don't make sense like the Island Guardians. That said, them having an Ultra Wormhole open above it could have been a good get-around explanation. Only include a select number of Legendaries at the start (mainly the Trios and a few of the "bonus" Legendaries) and then when you complete Tundra's Story the Ultra Wormhole opens up and suddenly a lot more Legendaries are appearing. And they can still keep the Ultra Beasts from appearing until you encounter Necrozma. But no, they didn't do that, and for some reason we just have all the mascot Legendaries & the Island Guardians just randomly hanging out in a den in Galar far from where their home regions are.

Only other thing they could have really done was include some old Legendaries in the vanilla game's post game, included a batch more in the Isle of Armor, and then have the rest appear in Tundra. Heck, thinking about it, the Swords of Justice would make more sense exploring the Isle of Armor than the cold wilderness of Tundra. Ooh, maybe even had them part of the side quest where you're going around the Isle to increase Kubfu's friendship with you, each spot you see a member of the Sword of Justice (including Keldeo which would hint you it's in the game), not only increasing Kubfu's friendship but also having that member of the Justices start wandering around (except Keldeo, you'd first need to capture the other three as expected for it to show up).

 

[Siggu]

But no, they didn't do that, and for some reason we just have all the mascot Legendaries & the Island Guardians just randomly hanging out in a den in Galar far from where their home regions are.

My headcanon is that it's a Legendary Pokémon vacation spot.

 

[RocketSurgery]

While I did have fun with the Dynamax Adventures, one little thing that does sort of bug me is that there's really no reason why there's all the Legendaries down there. Some just don't make sense like the Island Guardians. That said, them having an Ultra Wormhole open above it could have been a good get-around explanation. Only include a select number of Legendaries at the start (mainly the Trios and a few of the "bonus" Legendaries) and then when you complete Tundra's Story the Ultra Wormhole opens up and suddenly a lot more Legendaries are appearing. And they can still keep the Ultra Beasts from appearing until you encounter Necrozma. But no, they didn't do that, and for some reason we just have all the mascot Legendaries & the Island Guardians just randomly hanging out in a den in Galar far from where their home regions are.

It's easy to miss since it's one of Peonia's random topics, but she does tell you that Solgaleo/Lunala were the first legendary to appear in the den, at very least implying the rest of the legendaries came through ultra wormholes:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1321097446286655488

Not sure if this is elaborated on in any other text. So presumably Necrozma's arrival, along with the ultra beasts, was a separate wormhole incident.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

While I did have fun with the Dynamax Adventures, one little thing that does sort of bug me is that there's really no reason why there's all the Legendaries down there. Some just don't make sense like the Island Guardians. That said, them having an Ultra Wormhole open above it could have been a good get-around explanation. Only include a select number of Legendaries at the start (mainly the Trios and a few of the "bonus" Legendaries) and then when you complete Tundra's Story the Ultra Wormhole opens up and suddenly a lot more Legendaries are appearing. And they can still keep the Ultra Beasts from appearing until you encounter Necrozma. But no, they didn't do that, and for some reason we just have all the mascot Legendaries & the Island Guardians just randomly hanging out in a den in Galar far from where their home regions are.

It's easy to miss since it's one of Peonia's random topics, but she does tell you that Solgaleo/Lunala were the first legendary to appear in the den, at very least implying the rest of the legendaries came through ultra wormholes:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1321097446286655488

Not sure if this is elaborated on in any other text. So presumably Necrozma's arrival, along with the ultra beasts, was a separate wormhole incident.

I think the implication here is that since Solgaleo/Lunala were the first legendaries to show up, and they have the ability to travel into places through Ultra Wormholes, that it's very much possible that the other legendaries who are in there were also brought in through Ultra Wormholes. Much like how in USUM you find all the legendaries in Ultra Space, here in this den the likely scenario is that around the same time Solgaleo/Lunala arrived into the den, a number of Wormholes opened up via Ultra Space and brought everything else into it, possibly Solgaleo/Lunala themselves summoning all the other legendaries into that den via Wormholes.

Then Necrozma came into the picture and also brought in Ultra Beasts from other dimensions via the Wormholes as well afterwards, presumably some time after the player successfully catches all the Crown Tundra Legendaries and shows them all to Peony.

 

[Sugarbear]

I actually like the art style for BDSP. Yeah I’ll see myself out now.

Remember when gameplay was more important than graphics? Yeah me neither

 

[Yung Dramps]

Remember when gameplay was more important than graphics? Yeah me neither

Sometimes it really feels like the modern Pokefandom has regressed all the way back to the early-mid-2000s gamer stereotype of "MUH GRAPHICS" triumphing over all, especially when you consider absolute dogshit like Battle Revolution getting retroactive acclaim for literally that incredibly shallow reason and nothing else. Actually now that I think about that game really is the pinnacle of this decline, I miss when our priorities were in order and we could look past the shiny presentation to call BR what it was, a crappy imitation of the Stadium games with garbage rentals and half the content if that

 

[The Mind Electric]

Sometimes it really feels like the modern Pokefandom has regressed all the way back to the early-mid-2000s gamer stereotype of "MUH GRAPHICS" triumphing over all, especially when you consider absolute dogshit like Battle Revolution getting retroactive acclaim for literally that incredibly shallow reason and nothing else. Actually now that I think about that game really is the pinnacle of this decline, I miss when our priorities were in order and we could look past the shiny presentation to call BR what it was, a crappy imitation of the Stadium games with garbage rentals and half the content if that

People would have also complained if it was exactly the style of Sword/Shield. It's modern Pokémon, someone is always going to be mad about something.

 

[Pikachu315111]

I actually like the art style for BDSP. Yeah I’ll see myself out now.

Remember when gameplay was more important than graphics? Yeah me neither

Sometimes it really feels like the modern Pokefandom has regressed all the way back to the early-mid-2000s gamer stereotype of "MUH GRAPHICS" triumphing over all, especially when you consider absolute dogshit like Battle Revolution getting retroactive acclaim for literally that incredibly shallow reason and nothing else. Actually now that I think about that game really is the pinnacle of this decline, I miss when our priorities were in order and we could look past the shiny presentation to call BR what it was, a crappy imitation of the Stadium games with garbage rentals and half the content if that

Graphics: I don't think there's any reason to think the fandom is on decline because they didn't get what they thought they were logically going to get (unfortunately this is GF where a lot of times logic is flung out the garbage chute with the expired groceries). After seeing how all the other Remakes upgraded their graphics to match the current gen's, not to mention Let's Go Pikachu & Eevee having remade Kanto in a 3D environment albeit with a more cartoonish style (but that's alright as it's a side series to the core series), fans were excited to see on of the older regions getting graphics akin to Gen VII and VIII. How would familiar towns, cities, routes, & other notable locations look now with the camera down where the player is and off the restrictive tiles? What cool/cute/interesting/wtf character redesigns would we see? What overworld innovations had they done in Alola & Galar be brought over to Sinnoh and what new ones will Sinnoh have?

Well, turns out nothing. It's a 1:1 3D retro remake. We're back to the tiles and top-down view. From the preview it looks like characters & locations aren't going to be given major redesigns as the previous remakes did. It's as if they took the DS games and converted it to 3D (which shouldn't be too hard as the overworld was already in 3D, it's just they now replaced the sprites with 3D models on the overworld & in battles). For a lot of fans, especially Sinnoh fans, this is not what they wanted because they foolishly thought GF would keep to following how remakes were done. They wanted to explore Sinnoh like they did Alola & Galar, they wanted the cutscenes to have more dynamic models acting them out. For many of the older players, they've already experience and played through top-down Sinnoh. I can't speak for or know what younger players who didn't play a Pokemon game before Gen VI, but I can only imagine some confusion as why these games have such a drastic downgrade in graphics which all other Pokemon games they've played have moved on from this (or have upgraded it to match modern styles like Gen VI or Let's Go did).

And it leaves plenty of questions, the type of questions a company shouldn't be making their customers wondering: concerns. We're assuming it has the Platinum Dex cause we saw Porygon-Z (then again Dawn, Lucas, & Barry have their DP styles including their Poketch), is this true? If it is, are they including other aspects of Platinum in, cause ORAS didn't include a lot of Emerald features? But will that be it, or will they include new features too? Of the old returning features, how much of an update are they going to receive? For example, ORAS updated their Contests to Contest Spectaculars which included rebalancing Move effects, making a showcase when a Pokemon Mega Evolves, having the audience clap & hoot, giving the player character a costume to wear, had a sort of story centered around Lisia that played out in the background, etc.. What will BDSP do with Sinnoh's Super Contests? Are they going to be upgraded the same way into Super Contest Spectaculars? Wouldn't they need Mega Pokemon back? From my count Sinnoh had 17 Mega Pokemon in its Regional Dex, would they expand it to include other Pokemon with Mega (would it be too much to ask if they could create more, I mean Gen IV only has 5 Mega itself). Amity Square had a very limited version of walking Pokemon that HGSS blew out of the water and the SwSh DLC brought back; would be a REAL downgrade to not only go back to limited Pokemon but also limited it to just inside Amity Square. And of course: Battle Frontier?

This isn't a proper remake, this is an experimental remake. All their interest is in Legends: Arceus, that's the game they wanted to make (or maybe came to wanting to make) but knew fans have been waiting for the DPPt remakes & getting their ire may affect the sales of L:A. But, they really don't want to do a full remake, especially because they don't want to include Dynamax and places to include Wild Areas, so have done everything possible to make it a budget title: got third party developers, simple art style, 1:1 map remake, no redesigns, putting Masuda in charge so he stays away from their preferred project. And you know what, I'll give them this out: I will be perfectly fine with BDSP if they pull a LGPE and says, upon reflection, BDSP doesn't match their standards for remakes thus are making a third category of main series games: Retro Remakes. And thus proper Sinnoh Remakes are back on the upcoming list, though will likely have to wait till next gen.


Gameplay: Gameplay more important than graphics... exactly what is this supposed to mean for the Pokemon series? Do you mean the core turn-based battling mechanic that hasn't changed its skeleton framework since Gen I? Do you mean how outside of battle the player is just running around on an overworld, not even having a jump button? When it comes to Pokemon, one of the major draws & improvements of a new generation is the graphics. Because how Pokemon essentially captured lightning in the bottle with its simplistic gameplay, the only direction they can more with it is adding more mechanics, features & mini-games which either work off the battling system (Contests, PokeStar Studios) or are a new UI but likely recycles assets from the battling system (usually the sprites/models and their animations).

BTW, graphics does mean more than how it looks. Graphics also does refer to animations, special effects, lighting & shadows, and anything that's part of the presentation. One issue that's already been pointed out is that GF did not consider perspective: top-down for a 2D game/sprite-based game is fine as you can draw the characters & environment to give a more appealing view. But in 3D/model-based game, unless you did what Nintendo did with LoZelda: Link Between Worlds and slanted everything backwards, all you're now looking down at are hats/hair and rooftops with only a small glimpse of the person/building underneath.

This goes back to the issue GF treating this remake as an experiment than giving Sinnoh the remakes many expect them to give it. Already it looks like a downgrade compared with the other remakes because it went backwards in style & decided not to redesign the characters. If GF is gonna give us graphic advancement, what are they going to give us in return? Because it can't be simply an "3D retro upgrade" of Sinnoh, it also has to compete with Sword & Shield. And Sword & Shield has already been given a lot of slack about lacking graphics and features, and now BDSP is looking to give us LESS and YOU'RE DEFENDING it? How about we treat GF like the company which makes the tripe A game series it does and expect & demand more from them than letting them slide because they want to present themselves as a spunky third-party/indie company.

 

[Bakugames]

and now BDSP is looking to give us LESS and YOU'RE DEFENDING it? How about we treat GF like the company which makes the tripe A game series it does and expect & demand more from them than letting them slide because they want to present themselves as a spunky third-party/indie company.

where did that less come from lol, I'd assume the amount of work to replicate the old gen 4 art style is actually bigger than current modern games because the gen 8 models seem to borrow a lot from gen 7, so even new characters would be easier to do. Also the only connection the remakes have to gamefreak is Masuda, who's just there because he developed the original.

 

[The Mind Electric]

Graphics: I don't think there's any reason to think the fandom is on decline because they didn't get what they thought they were logically going to get (unfortunately this is GF where a lot of times logic is flung out the garbage chute with the expired groceries). After seeing how all the other Remakes upgraded their graphics to match the current gen's, not to mention Let's Go Pikachu & Eevee having remade Kanto in a 3D environment albeit with a more cartoonish style (but that's alright as it's a side series to the core series), fans were excited to see on of the older regions getting graphics akin to Gen VII and VIII. How would familiar towns, cities, routes, & other notable locations look now with the camera down where the player is and off the restrictive tiles? What cool/cute/interesting/wtf character redesigns would we see? What overworld innovations had they done in Alola & Galar be brought over to Sinnoh and what new ones will Sinnoh have?
Well, turns out nothing. It's a 1:1 3D retro remake. We're back to the tiles and top-down view. From the preview it looks like characters & locations aren't going to be given major redesigns as the previous remakes did. It's as if they took the DS games and converted it to 3D (which shouldn't be too hard as the overworld was already in 3D, it's just they now replaced the sprites with 3D models on the overworld & in battles). For a lot of fans, especially Sinnoh fans, this is not what they wanted because they foolishly thought GF would keep to following how remakes were done. They wanted to explore Sinnoh like they did Alola & Galar, they wanted the cutscenes to have more dynamic models acting them out. For many of the older players, they've already experience and played through top-down Sinnoh. I can't speak for or know what younger players who didn't play a Pokemon game before Gen VI, but I can only imagine some confusion as why these games have such a drastic downgrade in graphics which all other Pokemon games they've played have moved on from this (or have upgraded it to match modern styles like Gen VI or Let's Go did).
And it leaves plenty of questions, the type of questions a company shouldn't be making their customers wondering: concerns. We're assuming it has the Platinum Dex cause we saw Porygon-Z (then again Dawn, Lucas, & Barry have their DP styles including their Poketch), is this true? If it is, are they including other aspects of Platinum in, cause ORAS didn't include a lot of Emerald features? But will that be it, or will they include new features too? Of the old returning features, how much of an update are they going to receive? For example, ORAS updated their Contests to Contest Spectaculars which included rebalancing Move effects, making a showcase when a Pokemon Mega Evolves, having the audience clap & hoot, giving the player character a costume to wear, had a sort of story centered around Lisia that played out in the background, etc.. What will BDSP do with Sinnoh's Super Contests? Are they going to be upgraded the same way into Super Contest Spectaculars? Wouldn't they need Mega Pokemon back? From my count Sinnoh had 17 Mega Pokemon in its Regional Dex, would they expand it to include other Pokemon with Mega (would it be too much to ask if they could create more, I mean Gen IV only has 5 Mega itself). Amity Square had a very limited version of walking Pokemon that HGSS blew out of the water and the SwSh DLC brought back; would be a REAL downgrade to not only go back to limited Pokemon but also limited it to just inside Amity Square. And of course: Battle Frontier?
This isn't a proper remake, this is an experimental remake. All their interest is in Legends: Arceus, that's the game they wanted to make (or maybe came to wanting to make) but knew fans have been waiting for the DPPt remakes & getting their ire may affect the sales of L:A. But, they really don't want to do a full remake, especially because they don't want to include Dynamax and places to include Wild Areas, so have done everything possible to make it a budget title: got third party developers, simple art style, 1:1 map remake, no redesigns, putting Masuda in charge so he stays away from their preferred project. And you know what, I'll give them this out: I will be perfectly fine with BDSP if they pull a LGPE and says, upon reflection, BDSP doesn't match their standards for remakes thus are making a third category of main series games: Retro Remakes. And thus proper Sinnoh Remakes are back on the upcoming list, though will likely have to wait till next gen.

Gameplay: Gameplay more important than graphics... exactly what is this supposed to mean for the Pokemon series? Do you mean the core turn-based battling mechanic that hasn't changed its skeleton framework since Gen I? Do you mean how outside of battle the player is just running around on an overworld, not even having a jump button? When it comes to Pokemon, one of the major draws & improvements of a new generation is the graphics. Because how Pokemon essentially captured lightning in the bottle with its simplistic gameplay, the only direction they can more with it is adding more mechanics, features & mini-games which either work off the battling system (Contests, PokeStar Studios) or are a new UI but likely recycles assets from the battling system (usually the sprites/models and their animations).
BTW, graphics does mean more than how it looks. Graphics also does refer to animations, special effects, lighting & shadows, and anything that's part of the presentation. One issue that's already been pointed out is that GF did not consider perspective: top-down for a 2D game/sprite-based game is fine as you can draw the characters & environment to give a more appealing view. But in 3D/model-based game, unless you did what Nintendo did with LoZelda: Link Between Worlds and slanted everything backwards, all you're now looking down at are hats/hair and rooftops with only a small glimpse of the person/building underneath.
This goes back to the issue GF treating this remake as an experiment than giving Sinnoh the remakes many expect them to give it. Already it looks like a downgrade compared with the other remakes because it went backwards in style & decided not to redesign the characters. If GF is gonna give us graphic advancement, what are they going to give us in return? Because it can't be simply an "3D retro upgrade" of Sinnoh, it also has to compete with Sword & Shield. And Sword & Shield has already been given a lot of slack about lacking graphics and features, and now BDSP is looking to give us LESS and YOU'RE DEFENDING it? How about we treat GF like the company which makes the tripe A game series it does and expect & demand more from them than letting them slide because they want to present themselves as a spunky third-party/indie company.

It's an extremely small complaint but please use line breaks in-between your paragraphs, my brain shuts off when I see things like this.

 

[Pikachu315111]

It's an extremely small complaint but please use line breaks in-between your paragraphs, my brain shuts off when I see things like this.

Fixed. It may sound silly, but I worry if I include a space between the paragraphs people may think I've moved onto a new topic instead of just starting a paragraph that's part of the same topic. In this instance there's no issue of that, but there's been other posts I made where I move onto another topic and the only way you'd know is by me including a space between the paragraphs. I guess I could add an additional line break or two between topics.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

It's incredibly presumptuous to assume BDSP is somehow taking less work to make than SwSh, especially when the Sinnoh region itself is absolutely massive. Look at the map, especially compared to SwSh's small Galar region. It has 30 routes, which is a solid three times the amount Sword and Shield has, twice as many towns/cities, five times as many dungeons and landmarks, and you have to recreate all of that with the Switch engine instead of the DS one, and readjust it. Plus the likely inclusion of the Underground and possibly the Distortion World (this is still a question as to whether it will be included though), plus the massive scope of Mt. Coronet in and of itself. Second, Game Freak isn't developing this, ILCA is, and this is one of the first times they are developing a full scale game. Outside of Masuda directing the development, Game Freak largely isn't doing the dirty work for the game. And despite retaining the top-down approach, you are still updating battles to look like SwSh and making the region itself look more suited to a Switch style than the DS.

Yes, this is an experimental remake, and take this as an unpopular opinion from me, but I do find the approach they are taking with BDSP to be quite interesting, and I think I look forward to seeing how this experimental approach pans out. You should treat BDSP as two parts of a whole with Legends: Arceus, both are new Sinnoh games, but they are two different games taking the same region in different directions: one is a classic style remake that stays true to the aesthetic of the original and retains the charm of the original, and the latter is a modernized, ambitious, boundary pushing prequel set in the same region but is an all new adventure set in Sinnoh. To quote another post here,

People would have also complained if it was exactly the style of Sword/Shield. It's modern Pokémon, someone is always going to be mad about something.

Yeah, exactly this.

If they had done the mish-mash approach like ORAS did, it would've been led to just as divisive reception. I know many people dreaded the prospect of Sinnoh remakes forcing the Wild Area and Dynamax/Max Raids into the game and thereby ruining the individuality that defines Sinnoh and also in turn loses what made Galar's individuality what it was.

BDSP shows that that won't be the case. BDSP is retaining the top-down style that the original Diamond and Pearl had, and it's carefully retaining the scope and scale of the region and the original story, unlike ORAS which meddled with the story to extents to tie itself into X and Y, and in many ways altered the scope of several of the region's landmarks and dungeons, which led to some people disliking ORAS. I know some people even disliked HGSS because they felt it lost the charm that made GS special to them. The mish-mash approach creates a bit of a lose lose because games like ORAS suffered an identity crisis: ORAS tried to simultaneously be a Gen 3 remake and a Gen 6 game at the same time, but in turn to many they felt it lost the charm of the original Ruby and Sapphire. I won't deny ORAS is a great game, but it had detractors on both ends who disliked it for various reasons. Same goes to a lesser extent with HGSS, which also tried to juggle being a Gen 4 game and a GS remake. Both of these games (ORAS and HGSS) took extreme liberties in trying to "update" the games to the point where they fundamentally altered the flow of the game entirely.

BDSP and Legends are trying to be two different games with Sinnoh, taking two different directions and in doing so pull a best of both worlds approach. You want a remake that gives you the experience of nostalgia and charm you felt when playing the original DPP when you were younger? You got it! BDSP will give you that same charm that DPP had that made that game special. You want to see Sinnoh reimagined in greater detail, and more in-line with what Sword and Shield could show? Legends: Arceus has you covered there. And it's an all new adventure, and takes upon the concepts that Sword and Shield did with its Wild Areas and expands upon them, the whole game itself turns Sinnoh into a sprawling Wild Area, and you're catching Pokemon and observing them and experiencing a brand new adventure, set in Sinnoh itself.

Yes, Legends: Arceus seems to be GF's main project right now, but it's still a Sinnoh game, and it's a boundary pushing mainline title that is being called the "evolution of the franchise". Again, BDSP is ideally to be approached as part of a whole with Legends, and they're pulling a best of both worlds in two different games instead of mish-mash like ORAS and HGSS, which as I said was constantly met with divisive reception. It's like "Classic Sonic" and "Modern Sonic" - I really think this is a deliberate experimental direction they are attempting instead of lack of interest in DP remakes, and this time with Sinnoh they're trying the two-game two-directional approach of classic and modern: BDSP is staying true to the original and retaining its charm, Legends is taking Sinnoh and reimagining it in modern artstyle and detail and serving as a brand new adventure in Sinnoh. This is something you'd never think they'd do, but they did it! And Arceus is getting the justice it deserves too, and from what we can see it's looking to be a big step forward for 3D Pokemon. I think they are trying to appeal to every crowd with these two games, and manifesting it in two different games with two different approaches. It will be interesting to see how this works, and I do look forward to both games all the same, especially considering Sinnoh is incredibly special to me.

 

[ThatOneSpork]

So here's my sort of approach with any new game, in this case, BDSP and Legends. Go in assuming that it will be better than all the others before it. People are going to say BDSP is worse than the originals, but they are just wrong. There will be improvements in BDSP that make it better than the originals, no matter what. Legends will have improvements over the other games, whatever they may be. This is the obvious trend in all generations, but when people dislike a game for some reason, they will say it's worse than the previous generation. Gen 1 was almost entirely worse than gen 2. Gen 2 was almost entirely worse than gen 3. So on so forth. There may be parts that got worse, but they will be better overall. That's why SwSh was hated so much. They really are just good games, but people were saying they were worse than SM because they just didn't like the fact that Megas became nonexistent. So the same is presumably going to happen to BDSP, and anything they don't like about it (good examples being the 3D models and the chibi art style) will "make them worse than the originals" when they are just a significant upgrade.

Edit: I learned that I have been wrong all these years and removed objectively.