AAA Almost Any Ability

UT

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I do agree that both mons and Psychic Surge are strong, but I have not found them to be out of line with the rest of the tier and believe there is more counter-play than described.

In your calcs for Weavile, it's been able to set up to +2. That either means it got two free turns (switching in + Swords Dance) or had team support and a free turn (slow pivot + Swords Dance). Plenty of mons are extremely dangerous if they are able to have a free turn or two, that is not unique to Weavile. Weavile is very frail and has a very poor typing, it's extremely risky to try and Swords Dance on pretty much anything in the tier. If you are able to keep it from Swords Dancing with pressure from your own team, all of the checks you mention are adequate. You also left off Skarm, which is an even better check than Corv and almost always carries Body Press.

For Psychic Surge, many teams carry a more physically defensive mon and a more specially defensive mon, and the Psychic Surge users are typically choice locked (and often Scarf, not Specs). If you guess wrong and switch in the wrong defensive mon, you are able to switch to the other expecting the item lock. All of the common checks listed have Regenerator, reliable recovery, or both, so they often take little permanent damage from this exchange. Opposing terrain setters can also more than halve their power immediately. Expanding Force / Psyshock does often force 50-50s, but guessing wrong defensively often ends in only ~15% net damage to their switch in, while guessing wrong offensively can result in a loss of momentum.

Genesect is a really weird mon, and I go back and forth on how I feel about it. If it doesn't have a damage boosting item/ability, it's honestly pretty weak, especially since the special attacking sets mostly rely on non-STAB moves. If it doesn't have a Choice Scarf or already Shift Geared, it's pretty slow for an attacker. It has 10 amazing moves, but it can only be running 4 at a time. It is pretty much impossible to have a team, let alone a mon, that is able to handle all possible Genesect sets and move combinations, but you can also only use one Genesect at a time. I feel that there is no Genesect set or combination of sets that are broken, but its unpredictability is virtually unrivaled in this tier, and that does count for something. I would likely not support banning Genesect though, it does a lot of things well, but nothing great.

In short, I agree that that all of the mentioned mons and ability are good, and in the case of Psychic Surge probably underused, but I do not think they are broken.
 
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In this post, I would like to talk about two Pokémon & one ability that I find unhealthy for this tier.

Weavile


This Pokémon is incredibly strong in the tier at this moment and this is felt a lot when building a team, I feel obliged to put a specific Pokémon to be able to come on Weavile which does only that or almost only that whereas I would have liked to have other Pokémon much better in my team.

Switch-Ins to Weavile are very limited and can still lose against it for the most part.
I would like to start with the most common ones and tell how they can lose against.

Cobalion

Cobalion's popularity has increased since the beginning of OMPL because Weavile often used Poison Jab as coverage to hit Tapu Fini, yet this Pokémon automatically loses to Weavile Low Kick.

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cobalion: 387-458 (100.2 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

You are forced to use the Chople Berry to be able to come on Weavile, but even then you just get Knocked Off and you have lost your answer to Weavile.


Tapu Fini

This one is rather funny because everyone considers it one of the best Switch In Weavile and yet it has to rely on luck to pass it, even without Poison Jab.
Poison Jab breaks it very easily, you just have to chip it a bit and then you're pretty sure of the OHKO.

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 281-333 (81.6 - 96.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Without Poison Jab it is more complicated to breaks but still very possible.

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 159-186 (46.2 - 54%) -- approx. 2HKO after Stealth Rock

If you fully succeed with your 2 Triple Axels and it doesn't burn you with Scald / doesn't crit you with Moonblast, then you break it.
You also need to keep Rocks on the field to avoid getting a roll (which is about 55% chance of 2HKO), but it's pretty easy because Tapu Fini loses to a lot of rock setters and won't be able to Defog easily.

Mew

Mew Colbur Berry is certainly the worst Switch-In Weavile, not having the boots handicaps Mew enormously in a game for come only on Weavile no Band, I'm quite surprised that absolutely no one is still saying that having Mew Colbur Berry is not ok at all because of its disastrous overall reliability because of Hazards, and it's also a perfect example of how much Weavile restricts the builder.

Corviknight


Corviknight without Body Press has a lot of difficulties to assume the blows of Weavile, indeed it comes on without problem but is obliged to U-turn to be able to put a Revenge Killer.

But :
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 258-303 (64.5 - 75.7%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Corviknight U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 128-152 (45.5 - 54%) -- 43.4% chance to 2HKO

By doing this you have a Corviknight with ~30% that doesn't come up with anything at all especially if rocks are up, and even if by chance you manage to heal your Corviknight, Weavile will be able to restart the process because it has 60% chance to take 2 U-turns.

Toxapex

Toxapex is a bit more peculiar than the others, on paper it's a very good Switch In Weavile that can come many times during the match, even on the Band if the Rocky Helmet is worn, the problem is that it's quite easy to PP Stall its Recovers, it suffers a lot from Hazards and it's difficult to place in a team with VoltTurn because it totally removes your momentum when you put it on the field, and more defensive teams will often let Weavile come on the field.

Conclusion :
Either you have to play a hardcounter like Corviknight or Skarmory Body Press, or you have to play one of these defensive cores to be sure to pass it safely :
Cobalion Chople Berry + Mew Colbur Berry (Cobalion is the one you put first, if it Koff you then you know if it's band or SD, if it's band then Cobalion will wall it easily, if it's SD then Mew will be your Switch-In)
Tapu Fini Haze + Mew Colbur Berry (You scout by putting Tapu Fini first, if it's SD you make Haze then you put Mew, if it's Band you stay with Fini)
Mew Colbur Berry + a Rocky Helmet + Dark-resist who can revenge kill it (Mew is the pokémon you put first for the scout, if it's band mew tank and you can put your Rocky Helmet which is usually Regenerator to be able to heal easily then in last you put your Dark Resist for the revenge kill)

Weavile restricts the builder a lot while being one of the fastest Pokémon in the tier that is easy to put on the field for rk or via slowturn, it's definitely not a Pokémon that should be kept in this tier where there are many threats to deal with.
i feel like this is a genuine problem, because every time i make a team without corv, weavile just absolutely CLEAVES me open. its what makes me want to run ff corv on every team, because without it it feels like literally EVERYTHING loses to desoland heatran + weavile. obv desoland heatran isnt an issue, but the synergy with weavile is. im just talking out my ass here, but i really think we need a weavile suspect after the aaa seasonal finishes. i decided to make a team showing how good desoland heatran and weavile can be paired together

:heatran: :weavile: :corviknight: :zapdos: :cobalion: :volcarona:
https://pokepast.es/7419e197afe4aa2c

its a bit of a weird team, with scarf cobalion and all that, but i think it shows what i mean well enough. without ff corv, this team is basically impossible to handle, and even that requires very intelligent play around primsea zapdos. i dont think i need to say more than weavile is ridiculous and should be banned, but i did anyways so :blobpex:
 
In your calcs for Weavile, it's been able to set up to +2. That either means it got two free turns (switching in + Swords Dance) or had team support and a free turn (slow pivot + Swords Dance). Plenty of mons are extremely dangerous if they are able to have a free turn or two, that is not unique to Weavile.
Plenty of mons don't have a powerful Band set so you can't just stay with your Pokémon on the field because you have to check if it's Band or SD.
You can double-switch with your Weavile too on the opposing RegenVest (you put your special threat and then double on your Weavile, and the Regenvest absolutely need to leaves the field because it don't want to lose its AV) or yes, voltturn who is in 2 teams on 3.
If you are able to keep it from Swords Dancing with pressure from your own team, all of the checks you mention are adequate
If every Pokemons on your team have WoW/TWave or a move who can OHKO Weavile, then sure or at least turn on a revenge killer without be OHKO by Knock Off or TAxel at +0, but you need to be sure it's a SD set and not a band set too.
You also left off Skarm, which is an even better check than Corv and almost always carries Body Press.
Yep i mentioned Skarm in the conclusion because it's a very rare good Weavile's answer to everything.

If you guess wrong and switch in the wrong defensive mon, you are able to switch to the other expecting the item lock. All of the common checks listed have Regenerator, reliable recovery, or both, so they often take little permanent damage from this exchange.
If you do that then you just weaken your team for nothing because your defensive core is 2HKO by Specs (and Specs still a big threat in the tier even if you think Scarf is better overall or more common), the problem of PsySurge users is not defensive's checks, but Dark-type for absorb Expanding Force.
Opposing terrain setters can also more than halve their power immediately.
Except of Dhelmise who is OHKO by Azelf's Fire Blast (Specs)(or Zarude but Fire Blast/Focus Blast moment), there is no terrain setters in the tier except in ElecTerrain team who are very uncommon. (or PsySurge setters but that changes nothing for Expanding Force's power).
I agree with defensive's checks are easy to put in a team but if you don't have a Dark-Type (so Weavile or Zarude or a Dark-type niche) to absorb EForce then it's useless and you just weaken your team for nothing

If it doesn't have a Choice Scarf or already Shift Geared, it's pretty slow for an attacker.
99 Speed is enough to revenge kill the slower offensive threats and anyway Genesect is often free on defensive Pokemons like Corviknight/Skarm, Garchomp or certains Pokemons after scouting WoW (if you have a physical move, if not you don't care about)/TWave like Ferro, Chansey/Blissey, Mew, Cobalion....
It has 10 amazing moves, but it can only be running 4 at a time.
It can have a lot of amazing moves but the most importants are Energy Ball / Iron Head / Thunderbolt / Flamethrower / Ice Beam, and you have at least 3 of these on your set, it's this 5 that makes Genesect strong, not the rest.

Edit because i read Codename's post :
but i really think we need a weavile suspect after the aaa seasonal finishes.
Not after the AAA Seasonal finishes, during please i don't want to gentleman clause each time :blobsad:
 
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UT

Roaring 20s, tossing pennies in the pool
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Team Rateris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Appeals + C&C Lead
Plenty of mons don't have a powerful Band set so you can't just stay with your Pokémon on the field because you have to check if it's Band or SD.
If anything is broken about Weavile, I would agree that it’s Technician Band. However, it’s usually obvious on team preview if you’re dealing with Band or MGLO due to the constraints Technician Beat Up Weavile puts on your team building using it (nothing with a low attack stat, over-the-top hazard control, status prevention, item removal support, etc.), so guessing if it’s Band or MGLO is usually not necessary.
You can double-switch with your Weavile too on the opposing RegenVest (you put your special threat and then double on your Weavile, and the Regenvest absolutely need to leaves the field because it don't want to lose its AV) or yes, voltturn who is in 2 teams on 3.
If you double switch your Weavile in, you’re taking a large risk that your opponent doesn’t stay in and attack/status, and most of the meta can hit Weavile hard. Then, you have to take another risk that they switch out again to let you get to +2. This is the definition of high risk/high reward, and I’m okay with there being a high payoff to using Weavile perfectly since a mispredict ends in a dead Weavile.

Scrolling through the VR, what mons can Weavile safely Swords Dance against? Every mon through at least B+ can OHKO, status, or pivot to a faster mon as you Swords Dance, and suddenly the Weavile user is disadvantaged. The only exception I see is psychic types choice locked into a psychic move, but if you choose to do that while the other side has an active Weavile you know what you’re doing.
If you do that then you just weaken your team for nothing because your defensive core is 2HKO by Specs
If your whole team is 2HKOed by Expanding Force, you built a bad (or HO) team. It’s not hard to build a team where you have answers to Psyshock and E-Force, and since you 99% of the time are going against choice lock, you can switch between them, with Regenerator and recovery moves taking advantage of them being forced out.

Again, the risk/reward is proportional here. If you guess wrong between Psyshock and E-Force, your defensive core takes about ~15% net damage. If you guess right, you have a free turn as they're forced out.
Genesect is often free on defensive Pokemons like Corviknight/Skarm, Garchomp or certains Pokemons after scouting WoW (if you have a physical move, if not you don't care about)/TWave like Ferro, Chansey/Blissey, Mew, Cobalion....
Again, you’re saying free like the turn switching in doesn’t count. Yeah Corv can’t do anything to Gene, but as it’s switching in it’s either defogging hazards, recovering HP, or clicking U-turn to bring in something else. And if you’re making double switches, there should be a reward for correctly double switching cause there is absolutely a penalty for incorrectly double switching.

It can have a lot of amazing moves but the most importants are Energy Ball / Iron Head / Thunderbolt / Flamethrower / Ice Beam, and you have at least 3 of these on your set, it's this 5 that makes Genesect strong, not the rest.
Okay, so every Genesect is missing at least one, most likely two of the moves it needs to actually pressure the whole meta. And very few of these attacks are OHKOs, and you have to hope your opponent never correctly switches to a resist that forces you out while you’re in. Again Genesect rewards perfect prediction, kinda like every other mon in Pokémon, and is punished for mis-prediction.

Pokemon is not a solved game, if it was it wouldn’t be fun. There is risk/reward to using almost anything, and what your calcs do is show that if your opponent can predict you perfectly, you lose. And that’s true, but every one of these calcs has a serious downside if you predicted wrong along the way. And for the most part the risks are proportional to the rewards (dead mon vs dead Weavile, forced out wall vs forced out Psychic Surge, damaged wall vs forced out or dead Genesect). Mons become broken when the reward for using them correctly outweighs the risk, and I don’t believe that’s true for these mons. It’s frustrating when you lose a 50-50, but if you want to always have “correct” or “perfect” answer to everything your opponent does, you’re playing the wrong game.

Edit: I feel like we are both talking past each other now and that continuing to go back and forth is no longer productive. I think that we have some fundamental disagreements on tiering, and that's not something that is going to be solved going back-and-forth on forum posts. I respect your views on these mons and ability being broken, but disagree, and do not believe either of us are going to change each other's mind.
 
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it’s usually obvious on team preview if you’re dealing with Band or MGLO due to the constraints Technician Beat Up Weavile puts on your team building using it
It's just not true, Weavile Band just need a good Defogger & a koff user for opponent's rocky which are very not hard to put in a team.
This is the definition of high risk/high reward, and I’m okay with there being a high payoff to using Weavile perfectly since a mispredict ends in a dead Weavile.
Weavile can take a hit from a lot of defensive pokemons anyway so if you mispredict one time that's okay
Scrolling through the VR, what mons can Weavile safely Swords Dance against? Every mon through at least B+ can OHKO, status, or pivot to a faster mon as you Swords Dance, and suddenly the Weavile user is disadvantaged.
You can come on Swampert no yawn one time, Zapdos need a para thunder, blissey no twave does nothing, mandibuzz too but anyway Weavile come on the field with your voltturn easily on Heatran, Blace, Chomp, Lando, Zapdos, Zam, Latios, Zarude who absolutely don't want to be OHKO by Weavile's STABs, it's just a 50/50 like every other mons who can NPlot/SDance, the difference with Weavile is : your Switch-In can loses against so you have to do some risky plays and stay on Weavile except if you have corvi/Skarm BPress in every team.

If your whole team is 2HKOed by Expanding Force, you build a bad (or HO) team. It’s not hard to build a team where you have answers to Psyshock and E-Force, and since you 99% of the time are going against choice lock, you can switch between them, with Regenerator and recovery moves taking advantage of them being forced out.
I'm talking about Specs, not Scarf, and if you're talking about Specs too, so who are you using, Reuniclus AV ?
Every Pokemon except SpD Corvi FF & Mandibuzz, are OHKO or 2HKO by EForce.

Yeah Corv can’t do anything to Gene, but as it’s switching in it’s either defogging hazards, recovering HP, or clicking U-turn to bring in something else. And if you’re making double switches, there should be a reward for correctly double switching cause there is absolutely a penalty for incorrectly double switching.
If corvi don't defog then you have rocks on the field and that's a good a thing, if it U-turn you take 8% on your Genesect, idk when it's not the good play, you're pressuring Corviknight to heal & defog because if it does that, Genesect breaks something

and you have to hope your opponent never correctly switches to a resist that forces you out while you’re in. Again Genesect rewards perfect prediction, kinda like every other mon in Pokémon, and is punished for mis-prediction.
Your opponent have to put something on the field and hope you don't have the move that 2HKO or OHKO his answer, yes
It’s frustrating when you lose a 50-50, but if you want to always have “correct” or “perfect” answer to everything your opponent does, you’re playing the wrong game.
I'm playing a healthy tier, when you build your team you just can't says "no problem, this pokemon just breaks my team but i will be better than my opponent" or "i will never face it", you can't win every 50-50 or you're a god, and i repeat but, we're talking about one set of genesect, if you put your AV to scout a first move safely and if the opponent's Genesect is band, you take a big 70%, paired with a special attaker like PsySurge Users, Tran, Blace, Rona, Triage users, anything, that sounds not good for you, same if you want to be safe with putting your fire type, if it's tinted you lost a mon, you absolutely can't know the genesect's set and moves except for Scarf who can be obvious sometimes, and there is no safe plays, you're just hoping the opponent click the wrong move or it's the wrong set, Genesect can also clicks U-turn and keep the enormous pression about the 3 moves it can have while keeping momentum too.
For a lot of people the main argument for Genesect is not broken/strong is "you can't have every sets on one genesect" and i obviously agree cause it's impossible, but you can easily abuse of the fact that people are switching their fire-types/AV first on Gene to scout safely a move and have something who beat it easily like FF Gene, or Band, tinted, what you want. You just can't rely on the fact that you're opponent will win no 50-50 or your opponent will never have a set that your team struggle
 
In this post, I would like to talk about two Pokémon & one ability that I find unhealthy for this tier.
Weavile


This Pokémon is incredibly strong in the tier at this moment and this is felt a lot when building a team, I feel obliged to put a specific Pokémon to be able to come on Weavile which does only that or almost only that whereas I would have liked to have other Pokémon much better in my team.

Switch-Ins to Weavile are very limited and can still lose against it for the most part.
I would like to start with the most common ones and tell how they can lose against.

Cobalion

Cobalion's popularity has increased since the beginning of OMPL because Weavile often used Poison Jab as coverage to hit Tapu Fini, yet this Pokémon automatically loses to Weavile Low Kick.

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cobalion: 387-458 (100.2 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

You are forced to use the Chople Berry to be able to come on Weavile, but even then you just get Knocked Off and you have lost your answer to Weavile.


Tapu Fini

This one is rather funny because everyone considers it one of the best Switch In Weavile and yet it has to rely on luck to pass it, even without Poison Jab.
Poison Jab breaks it very easily, you just have to chip it a bit and then you're pretty sure of the OHKO.

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 281-333 (81.6 - 96.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Without Poison Jab it is more complicated to breaks but still very possible.

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 159-186 (46.2 - 54%) -- approx. 2HKO after Stealth Rock

If you fully succeed with your 2 Triple Axels and it doesn't burn you with Scald / doesn't crit you with Moonblast, then you break it.
You also need to keep Rocks on the field to avoid getting a roll (which is about 55% chance of 2HKO), but it's pretty easy because Tapu Fini loses to a lot of rock setters and won't be able to Defog easily.

Mew

Mew Colbur Berry is certainly the worst Switch-In Weavile, not having the boots handicaps Mew enormously in a game for come only on Weavile no Band, I'm quite surprised that absolutely no one is still saying that having Mew Colbur Berry is not ok at all because of its disastrous overall reliability because of Hazards, and it's also a perfect example of how much Weavile restricts the builder.

Corviknight


Corviknight without Body Press has a lot of difficulties to assume the blows of Weavile, indeed it comes on without problem but is obliged to U-turn to be able to put a Revenge Killer.

But :
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 258-303 (64.5 - 75.7%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Corviknight U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 128-152 (45.5 - 54%) -- 43.4% chance to 2HKO

By doing this you have a Corviknight with ~30% that doesn't come up with anything at all especially if rocks are up, and even if by chance you manage to heal your Corviknight, Weavile will be able to restart the process because it has 60% chance to take 2 U-turns.

Toxapex

Toxapex is a bit more peculiar than the others, on paper it's a very good Switch In Weavile that can come many times during the match, even on the Band if the Rocky Helmet is worn, the problem is that it's quite easy to PP Stall its Recovers, it suffers a lot from Hazards and it's difficult to place in a team with VoltTurn because it totally removes your momentum when you put it on the field, and more defensive teams will often let Weavile come on the field.

Conclusion :
Either you have to play a hardcounter like Corviknight or Skarmory Body Press, or you have to play one of these defensive cores to be sure to pass it safely :
Cobalion Chople Berry + Mew Colbur Berry (Cobalion is the one you put first, if it Koff you then you know if it's band or SD, if it's band then Cobalion will wall it easily, if it's SD then Mew will be your Switch-In)
Tapu Fini Haze + Mew Colbur Berry (You scout by putting Tapu Fini first, if it's SD you make Haze then you put Mew, if it's Band you stay with Fini)
Mew Colbur Berry + a Rocky Helmet + Dark-resist who can revenge kill it (Mew is the pokémon you put first for the scout, if it's band mew tank and you can put your Rocky Helmet which is usually Regenerator to be able to heal easily then in last you put your Dark Resist for the revenge kill)

Weavile restricts the builder a lot while being one of the fastest Pokémon in the tier that is easy to put on the field for rk or via slowturn, it's definitely not a Pokémon that should be kept in this tier where there are many threats to deal with.
Psychic Surge


Just see these calcs :
Expanding Force | Psyshock | Focus Blast

252 SpA Choice Specs Alakazam Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Scizor in Psychic Terrain: 163-192 (47.5 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Alakazam Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD
Mew in Psychic Terrain: 196-231 (48.5 - 57.1%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Alakazam Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest
Silvally-Dragon in Psychic Terrain: 195-231 (49.4 - 58.6%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Psychic Terrain: 348-409 (49.4 - 58%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Alakazam Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Swampert in Psychic Terrain: 202-238 (50 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey in Psychic Terrain: 475-559 (66.5 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 262-310 (74.4 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The only real Switch-Ins are Mandibuzz who really doesn't appreciate receiving the Scarf or Specs or Corviknight max SpD Flash Fire (for Azelf).

To be able to manage them you have to play a RegenVest / Blob + Dark-type, it wouldn't be a problem if there weren't only 2 strong Dark-types in the tier (Weavile & Zarude), all the others are niche or even bad and difficult to justify in a team.
Genesect


Many people think that this Pokémon is not broken or bad, I will show one set that 2HKOs the entire tier.

Genesect @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 32 Atk / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Iron Head / Leech Life / Shift Gear / Energy Ball / U-turn
- Ice Beam / Thunderbolt
- Thunderbolt / Energy Ball / Flamethrower
- Flamethrower / Shift Gear / U-turn

Already, you can see that there's a problem, there are so many strong moves on one Genesect set.
What Pokémon are you going to put against that?

Silvally ?
32 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Genesect Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Silvally-Dragon: 183-216 (46.4 - 54.8%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO
32 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Genesect Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Silvally-Rock: 367-432 (93.1 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

Swampert ?
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Genesect Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Swampert: 322-385 (79.7 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Heatran ?
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Genesect Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Heatran in Harsh Sunshine: 222-263 (57.5 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Zapdos ?
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Genesect Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Zapdos: 242-286 (63.1 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Blissey ?
32 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Genesect Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 317-374 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO
(You need very little chip damage to be able to 2HKO it)

I'm not saying that Genesect needs to click the right move every time to be able to do something, I'm saying that it's not possible to manage it without losing a Pokémon, it's just luck at this level.

And this is only one set, what if it was Scarf for Revenge Kill easily? Band? Specs? in addition to being AoA or Sweeper with Shift Gear.
It's impossible to predict which Genesect you're dealing with, and which move it's going to click, it's also impossible to pressure it constantly in a match and make it come on any Pokémon on your team because it can come via voltturn, hard on a Pokémon it can tank, or revenge kill.

If you have a way to handle it easily, please tell me because I don't understand why most of the AAA community doesn't find it strong.
First of all, thanks for bringing up these issues Panda and thanks to everyone who engaged in the discussion. The council felt it was important to adress these concerns so I'd like to share my (and the council's) view on the elements that were brought up.

1) Weavile

Your general summary on Weavile is correct. It's a pokemon with limited switchins due to a strong STAB combo and it does warp the meta to an extent, however I would argue not to an unhealthy extent. The only mon that I'd foresee falling in usage due to a Weavile ban is Cobalion. Corv/Skarm would still be strong physical blankets, Regen Fini would remain as splashable as it is now, Mew would perhaps run Colbur less often since it would have to worry about less Dark type attacks and Pex would still see use on the teams that want a prankster haze. This is one part of why we don't find it banworthy atm. The other is that while Weavile has 2 distinct viable sets (SD MGLO and CB Tech/Adapt), both of these sacrifice one thing for another. MGLO sacrifices initial power for longevity and the ability to act as a wincon or lure, whereas CB sacrifices longevity and luring ability to hard-punish teams without strong counters.

What makes Weavile hard to play against in some scenarios though, is the fact that it could be running either one of these sets, but its not always obvious which one. That said, experienced AAA players can learn to read team preview very well, and IME you can guess the Weavile set by teamcomp more times than not. CB Weavile is often accompanied by choice band or choice specs Fire type breakers (Ace, Entei) and strong hazard control in the form of Magic Bounce + a Defogger, while MG Weavile is usually seen on MG stacking teams that dont really care as much about hazards.

A third aspect of Weavile counterplay is offensive in nature. At base 125 speed it gets outsped by Koko/Talon/Barra and its typing unfortunately leaves it weak to every form of priority, which means that getting breaking opportunities is not always as easy as it may seem. While CB Weavile does threaten a KO on anything slower that doesnt either resist both STABS or is HP and Def invested, MGLO Weavile doesn't share that trait, so it can be held in check by playing in a way that minimizes free turns for it. Of course double switches and U-turn predicts are a thing, but that's good play being rewarded. At the same time the opposing player can answer aggressive maneuvers with their own - such as switching Koko on Weavile SD etc. This is why MGLO realistically only comes online in the later stages of the game, when teams are softened up enough that it can try to sweep, but like I said as long as an offensive check is kept healthy you can stop it from sweeping. And I don't think we should be concerned about fast breakers thriving in late/mid game scenarios where the opposing team has been adequately weakened. As for CB Weavile, the opposite is true. It's best used as an early game breaker since its lack of chip immunity makes it much easier to wear down and Beat Up mechanics mean it's most powerful when its teammates are still alive. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while Weavile does have two distinct sets, guessing them is not as hard as it may seem and they both have very clear and adequately exploitable weaknesses.

2) Psysurge

While the calcs you've shown are definitely impressive, I think focusing on the damage these mons do to neutral hits/non invested resists misrepresents the mechanics of this metagame. I view Psysurge the same way as I do Esurge and Psea/Deso/(Dmaw?). Type-amp nukes that are gonna 2hko everything that isn't immune/or appropriately invested and resistant. In the same way that we don't expect AV pert to tank a Specs Psea weatherball, we also cant expect it to tank Specs Eforce. And similarly, we also can't expect spd invested AV pert to tank CB Adapt stone edges from Terrak. That's just how this meta works, the damage amplification abilities force specialized defensive mons cause otherwise they just don't have the bulk to withstand even resisted hits.

And while the Psychic type abusers have a better speed tier than most other Specs nukes, and a priority immunity that makes offensive counterplay harder to find; they suffer from the same "terrain reset" weakness as Deso/Psea breakers do while also having a natural immunity in dark types - the existence of which on the opposing team makes clicking moves much harder with psysurge. I agree, its hard to find "hard counters", mons that can get in and eat any 2 hits from a psysurge mon - really the only ones that qualify are Mandibuzz, AV Incin and AV Jirachi; but most teams with an AV/Blissey to scout the initial hit and a Dark type or scarf Genesect in the back (assuming psychic move was clicked) can handle psysurge well enough, at least in the short term.

3) Genesect

Genesect's main draw and biggest issue when facing it down in-game is the extreme set versatility. Like you showed in your post, Genesect can run a variety of moves on mixed SFLO, MGLO and No Guard sets, but it can also run pure physical sets like SG tinted, SG TC, CB tinted, CB -ate etc. This makes it pretty hard to figure out the proper response once it gets a turn to do its thing. If I'm understanding your point right, it's that before Gene reveals its set it could be running anything, so all the possibilities should be taken into account (Schrodinger's Genesect?).

This is exacerbated by the fact that counterplay differs between the mixed and physical sets (well, specifically the tinted lens set). The best way to deal with the mixed SG sets is Fire types with some form of longevity (Volcarona, Arcanine, Heatran), just bulky mons with fire coverage (Flamethrower Silvally) or pivoting with something that can take a hit (Blissey, Pert, Cobalion) and revenging with Blace, Terrak or Entei. The tinted lens set however unfortunately OHKOs most fire types that aren't Heatran at +1, but on the bright side, it gets answered by blanket physical checks like Skarm, Corv, Pex, Fini and Wisp Mew. I should also mention the No Guard Zap Cannon set, which is honestly the closest to being uncompetitive (in my opinion, not necessarily the council's) since it does standard SFLO things while also setting up wins for teammates through fishing for full paras on Heatran and other switchins.

All that said however, I do think there's ways to build teams that leave you pretty well set up against Genesect. Running Heatran means you are never in danger of just losing to setup variants, AV Silvally with Flamethrower + a physical blanket leaves you pretty safe vs most Genesects, a pivot like Pert, Bliss and Blace in the back is also very solid counterplay. Volcarona and Arcanine check special/mixed genesects on their own and coupled with a physical blanket should leave you pretty well set up to not lose to Genesect. Then there's also some more niche options like Delta Zapdos or Delta Moltres, which should also answer any Genesect set on their own. So counterplay to Genesect isn't as scarce as its made out to be. Especially given the fact that Genesect can't run all of its sets at the same time. Nor can it run every coverage move at once. So while in theory Genesect can hit everything, in practice it doesn't have enough moveslots for it. This leaves us with the question of how hard it is to correctly guess the Genesect set from preview, which is up to debate and I think seeing some discussion on this topic would be beneficial.

In summary, i kinda get where you're coming from on all of these 3 elements, but I think you give too much thought to ideal scenarios for the person using these elements while ignoring the things the opposing player can do in order to prevent these ideal scenarios from happening. I can't fault you for any of this though, since (speaking not as a council member now, but just as a fellow player) I was also of the opinion that both Weavile and Genesect are broken before OMPL started. But I found that it only really takes slight building adjustments (in the case of Genesect) and being mindful of the game state (in the case of Weavile) to limit their ability to take over the game. Again, thanks for making this post, I'm personally always happy to see "higher level" metagame discussion on the forums.
 
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When will the submission time for the sample teams end?
I agree on the Weavile/PSurge/Genesect topic. Really strong but not broken.
Eh, are you sure that Archen is going to be a half-decent substitute to Archeops?
 

UT

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I have a few more teams that have been putting in work for me that I think could make good samples.

CorvBlissPert+SFLO Gene: This is a more updated version of The Killer T's team from earlier; I think it has a higher ceiling but is a little less intuitive to use well. Corv, Bliss, and Pert are still your bulky pivots and very similar to the original with some minor tweaks, and Terrakion is exactly the same (still a beast). Scarf Azelf is amazing speed control, faster than the entire unboosted meta, most other Scarfers, and even a lot of attackers at +2 speed. Psychic Terrain stops Triage and other priority cold, and enables Expanding Force to do good damage. U-Turn is useful on any Scarfer, especially to escape Dark-type switch-ins, Knock Off provides good coverage, and Trick allows you to not auto-lose to What It Is Mew.

Sheer Force Life Orb Genesect massively pressures slower teams, and with Shift Gear can be a great win con against faster teams. Another fun thing to do with Genesect is bluff Choice-Lock early, and then nab a suprise KO on a mon that thinks it's safe.

This team has a lot of the same weaknesses as the original, but better answers to speed boosters and priority. Be aggressive with your attackers, mostly Terrakion and Genesect early, and it can usually make opposing teams fold faster than yours does.

Triage Kommo-o+Scarf Gene: This is a more defensive team that looks to wear down the opponent and try to open up a sweep for Triage Kommo-o. Heatran and Garchomp have great typing's and special bulk, and Heatran can keep rocks up against most of the meta. Corv and Mew are the main physical switchins, which leaves you a little Weavile-weak, so Colbur berry is nice on Mew to nab a surprise kill.

Scarf Gene dishes out good damage with U-Turn and can grab KOs with it's coverage, but the star of the team is Kommo-o. Since Belly Drum Kommo is such a huge threat, opponents will often change how they play to try and deny Kommo free turns and make aggressive switches you can punish. Triage Kommo can also be used early game, unlike Belly Drum, since it can set up multiple times throughout a match.

This team is a bit Weavile weak, but Mew can often kill it and both Kommo and Gene revenge it safely. Physical Fire types can also be hard to deal with as Corv is not a good answer and Mew can't burn them. But it's still a solid team.

Skarm+Dhelm Spike Stack: this is probably the least easy-to-use team, but it's very different so I'm submitting it to show other team styles. It may seem weird to spike stack in a meta where Magic Guard and Magic Bounce are common, but this team does a good job of wearing down Regenerators for either Scarf Azelf or Specs Inteleon to break through. Both of them having U-Turn also makes them very usable early in the battle as well, which is always welcome. Dhelm is probably the best spinner right now since you don't want to defog your own hazards, and it packs a surprising punch while also giving you priority and recovery to your teammates.

You need to be able to scout for Magic Bounce with this team, and be aggressive on punishing Corv for trying to Defog your hazards. Otherwise this team has a fun fix of offensive and defensive attributes that let you play whichever style annoys your opponent more.

Those are all my half-decent teams, so if anyone has any suggestions to improve them, let me know!
 
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Isaiah

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When will the submission time for the sample teams end?
I agree on the Weavile/PSurge/Genesect topic. Really strong but not broken.
Eh, are you sure that Archen is going to be a half-decent substitute to Archeops?
We'll probably leave submissions open for another week or so.
 
i feel like this is a genuine problem, because every time i make a team without corv, weavile just absolutely CLEAVES me open. its what makes me want to run ff corv on every team, because without it it feels like literally EVERYTHING loses to desoland heatran + weavile. obv desoland heatran isnt an issue, but the synergy with weavile is. im just talking out my ass here, but i really think we need a weavile suspect after the aaa seasonal finishes. i decided to make a team showing how good desoland heatran and weavile can be paired together

:heatran: :weavile: :corviknight: :zapdos: :cobalion: :volcarona:
https://pokepast.es/7419e197afe4aa2c

its a bit of a weird team, with scarf cobalion and all that, but i think it shows what i mean well enough. without ff corv, this team is basically impossible to handle, and even that requires very intelligent play around primsea zapdos. i dont think i need to say more than weavile is ridiculous and should be banned, but i did anyways so :blobpex:
figured i should submit this team as a sample since imo fires and weavile are a big part of the meta rn. i COULD copy paste and write an analysis, or i could just quote the post and use it as my sample submission :^)
 
Here are my fav ompl teams

:cinderace: :cobalion: :mew: :swampert: :weavile: :zapdos:
p strong team abusing band weavile & the obnoxious bounce mew

:corviknight: :ferrothorn: :garchomp: :genesect: :tapu fini: :terrakion:
double adapt double regen double scarf, very reliable team

:azelf: :cinderace: :cobalion: :corviknight: :landorus-therian: :tapu koko:
koko + choice breakers

:alakazam: :heatran: :hydreigon: :landorus-therian: :tapu fini: :volcanion:
fun offense w double scarf pivot

:barraskewda: :ferrothorn: :genesect: :mew: :silvally-dragon: :zarude:
fish + mglo gene


About the metagame, it's is a good state imo. I think weavile should be banned cause it forces coba/fini/corv on every team. Band tech is the problematic one. You can't go for outplay against a 383 speed breaker, if you have to go for miss there's a problem. I've been leaning towards bulky offense a lot cause it leaves more room for innovation and it's less matchup reliant. Immunity spam is the thing to go for, especially primal weathers. You want both of them if possible. Specs primsea weather ball claims. I really like scarfers, most of my teams feature 2 of them ; especially regen fini/chomp/lando/gene/gapdos offer plenty of flexibility. Blobs don't really work in practice I think. Looking forward to seasonal replays.
 

Hera

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PUPL Champion
Sample teams submissions:

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https://pokepast.es/9aff258db540a354

This was one of the first successful teams I ever built, and has withstood the multiple shifts within the metagame, such as the Gengar and Archeops bans. It's a SFLO Genesect BO. What separates this team from the Gene BO above is not only the greater offensive nature of the team (3 offensive and 3 defensive mons vs 4 offensive mons and 2 defensive mons), but an added bit of DarkSpam to wear down Weavile checks such as Swampert and Tapu Fini. Without using something unviable like, say, Galvanize, Weavile struggles to break through its counters, so SD Bisharp baits them in to weaken them. The rest is pretty standard: Heatran forces progress against most teams while being the weather check, CorvBliss is a solid BO core that can work around its few weaknesses, Weavile breaks, and everything is set up for an easy Genesect sweep.

Weaknesses: FF Ferrothorn (if DesoLand), Weather abusers (if Mold Breaker), Mixed Cobalion, Scarf Fini

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https://pokepast.es/c6436174156ad79d

Built this team after getting upset that half of my teams lost to FF ID Ferrothorn, so I decided to see how it fairs. Unsurprisingly enough, a good portion of ladder just lost at team preview to it, and the rest of this team attempts to mitigate the few weaknesses it does have. Corviknight is a solid partner that can usually get Ferrothorn or a breaker in, and thanks to the fact that none of these are setup sweepers, it appreciates the defense boost from DShield more than the Attack drop from Intimidate. Tapu Koko and Terrakion have good syngery with eachother, as Tapu Koko baits in premier Terrakion bait such as opposing Ferrothorn, which gives Terrakion more opportunities to nuke stuff. Swampert is obligatory Rocks + pivot + whatever check, and Scarf Blacephalon is the speed control.

Weaknesses: ZyDog, Tinted Lens Genesect, Unburden Belly Drum Kommo-o



I would love to see a suspect on either Genesect or Weavile right after the ladder tour (during the ladder tour would be awful for obvious reasons), as I still find both of them to be problematic. I understand the defenses for Genesect, as it cannot run everything it wants to at once, but personally, I hate seeing a Genesect on TP and saying, "Oh boy, I sure do hope it's not the one out of the 7 (equally viable!) sets that 6-0s my team". The fact that Genesect has so many equally viable sets that can (semi-easily) sweep teams really puts a constraint on teambuilding in my eyes. While yes, Genesect ultimately has the same restrictions as every Pokemon, with only 4 moveslots and one ability, the opportunity cost of all these sets over the other is so low that it barely matters. For example, I can run FF Blaze Kick with Genesect to completely screw over Heatran, an otherwise solid check, and I still have 3 moveslots to work with. It requires very little tweaking to beat what it wants, and I think that pushes it too far. As for Weavile, mega braindead mon that forces half your team to have some way of dealing with it, or else you just lose long term, Band kills everything, SD kills everything weakened, you need a faster mon than it at near full health or else you will lose, it's just super constraining on the teambuilder and good enough in practice to leave me concerned.
 

Don Vascus

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I decided to pick up this team for learning the meta because it seemed like the one that fitted me the best, with heavy use of pivoting and big dumb breakers, but with one slight difference:

Silvally-Dragon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Draco Meteor
- Rock Slide
- Poison Fang

Dragon Vally! The original team had rock vally because Noivern was a big bully, and because of that it had a few other problem matchups such as solar beam heatran and barraskewda. With a dragon typing, it can reliably stop all fire types, electric types, Barra, and even most Koko vairants. It still needs rock slide to actually threaten Volcarona and it is nevertheless a somewhat flimsy Barra check, especially when it takes 60 from CC and tends to have to check a lot of things, but its still better than nothing and keeps barra from just 6-0ing you for free. It is notable though that the Fairy weakness of this mon is a huge disadvantage as breaker sets of Lele (Sheer Force, Tinted Lens) can just go through the team like butter. Dragon mons can also be a headache but at least Koko can help in that regard.

Pokepast for the modified version: https://pokepast.es/2327f3213f5525b2
While tecnically not mine, id like to submit my modified version of the ccat team made a while ago. Its still pretty decent and very simple, with an almost chans corv pert core, two good breakers and one of the best speed control mons in the meta. Terrak rising to the spot light makes the team crumble, as your 50/50 to take cc/stone actually doesnt exist, and other things that it doesnt apreciate include lele and tspikes to some extent due to the nature of beat up. Its just pivot around and break holes with blace and weave and of theres like a talon revenge it with koko
 
Crossposting the AAA section of my post-OMPL writeup here to up my ratio for some more metagame discussion:

Some metagame observations:

:talonflame: :heatran:
Talon is complimented really well by Desoland, until people start running Flash Fire Corv/Skarm. But when people are checking Talon with bulky waters and PSea it gives alot of openings to your desolander to come in and fire off strong fire moves.

:swampert: :skarmory: :tapu koko:
I ended up liking AV pert + Daunt Skarm a lot over the course of the tour cause it felt like a very solid bulky offense core. They form a solid "skarmbliss" blanket check core, with Skarm being preferred over corv due to access to hazards and Counter/Toxic/Whirlwind letting it actually serve as anticheese (beats Kommo, for example). Psea Koko (alternatively Zapdos) compliments the core very well, since it patches up the biggest holes in DesoTran and physical Fire types (ace, talon etc). This gives you a good amount of freedom when filling out the rest of your team, as seen in my w5 and 6 teams.

:primarina: :genesect:
Specs Psea Weather Ball was a very nice response to people running DesoLand as their water resist. I often found myself kinda forced into running Pert with Zarude since grassy terrain makes most other grounds unviable and you cant really run Dragonvally with Zarude cause then both your electric resists lose to Koko. These teams can't really afford to run Water Absorb over Deso without some concessions, since you lose out on the very important Fire move damage boost that way. After seeing the success of Specs Psea I decided to build with it myself and came to the conclusion that NG Genesect and Primarina complement each other very well. If the opposing team's water resist is DesoTran (as it often is), then Prima will weaken it for Gene. If their water resist is Blissey, Gene beats that while crippling its checks with Zap. If they have an actual water resist (Fini/Dragonvally) it doesn't matter since both actually lose to Gene/Prima longterm. Blastoise is probs one of the few things that fares "well" vs this core.

:latios:
CM Latios is "lowkey broken" in the sense that only Weavile and Scarfers with a strong Uturn cleanly revenge it at +1. Everything else fails to ohko which can be devastating. It obv doesn't like slow uturns but you can work around that somewhat.

:zarude: :dhelmise: + :latias: :tapu lele: :chandelure: :necrozma:
It took me a while to hop on the unburden seed wincon train, but its the real deal. Unburden basically mimics Triage wincons in the way that it only takes one turn of setup to potentially take over the game, but it bypasses alot of usual countermeasures such as Dazzling/Psysurge or trying to outspeed with sth that resists the Triage move. And the seed boost is significant too. I personally feel like Lele and Latias are the best unburdeners, but I also tried Chandelure and I know Necrozma and Mowtom were used by other players as well.

:swampert: :blissey: :corviknight:
Sometime over the course of the tour i ended up really disliking the standard bulky offense defensive core of Pert + Blob + Corv which basically aims to pivotspam the opponent to death. This is cause it feels very weak to attempts at bypassing pivotspam (Triage, speed boosting setup and uninteractive cheese such as demon mew) as the mons in question dont have any offensive presence themselves - so you have to include countermeasures to these within your breakers. This also ends up being an issue when you find yourself in a MU where your breakers are all checked in some way and you would need your defensive core to help overwhelm your opponent's walls. Swampert is pretty much the only one that can contribute to that with Toxic or Whirlpool shenanigans, which means that you need to pair this core with something that plays off that. I don't think this core is unviable per se, but it's not as splashable as I used to think and needs some (a bunch) teambuilding concessions to make work. The week 1 teams used by the Spindas (corv pert blob arche zarude zam) and mlove (corv pert blob zarude kiss archeops) are good examples of how to make this core work. Also more recently, the Terrak + Scarf Azelf team by Unnerftalonflame.

Teams:

W1 vs jrdn (L): triage prima + specs latios https://pokepast.es/87cc9c9dfec31d40
:primarina: :latios: :genesect: :blissey: :swampert: :mandibuzz:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8almostanyability-1353714971

I initially wanted to use FF SD Scizor vs jrdn, cause i felt that it would do well vs his style of teams, but ended up realising Scizor is kinda bad cause it doesn't have the BST to 1v1 anything it doesn't explicitly counter. So i switched to Triage Prima + synergystic breaker. I felt that Specs Latios would pressure DesoTran pretty well, since that's the hardest prim counter so I paired her w that. If I were to build this team again I'd probs do CM Lati and Corv over Mandibuzz. I'm not happy with the way I played this game, especially the lategame choke that cost me the game, but props to jrdn, he outplayed me for most of the game.

W2 vs mlove (W): talon + desotran https://pokepast.es/f17e883c809aadda
:zarude: :heatran: :talonflame: :zapdos: :swampert: :cobalion:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8almostanyability-1357502102-pfmj11trboaowfokfsxnbvr36tzz8l0pw

I wanted to use Talonflame this week cause it's really good. It's hard to properly account for it without going out of your way since most bulky waters run low BP moves (scald, flip) and thus fail to ohko, letting you score 2hkos at +2. Rock types kinda don't exist, so the best way to prep for it s Psea elecs (koko zap) and FF steel birds (Corv skarm). The latter were nonexsitent at the time so I paired it w tox/tect desotran which felt like a good way to pressure most things that can prevent talon from making progress. I filled out the team with Zarude for terrain support and cob + pert + zap which is a nice defensive core. I was really happy with the team and it performed quite well too.

W3 vs booty (W): koko + weav MGspam https://pokepast.es/ea33ed9cbba18eec
:tapu koko: :weavile: :heatran: :blissey: :skarmory: :swampert:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8almostanyability-1362109721

I went for double MG Koko + Weav cause they have p good offensive synergy. Paired them w baloon desotran to take advantage of swampert, since neither of the two actually pressures it that well, while giving myself a check for triage dkiss. Weavile is low kick to get past cobalion, so I paired it w whirlpool Pert to trap Fini on defog and clear the way for Knockspam to win the game. Bounce bliss as my tran check, Skarm as my spiker and anticheese. Pretty happy with both this team and the way I played this game. I got a crucial bounce off which let me force a whirlpool on cob as my opp went for rocks again which let me clear the way for weavile to start picking up kills.

W4 vs atha (L): Togekiss balance https://pokepast.es/f6a291326bf3eb0e
:togekiss: :golisopod: :latias: :chansey: :corviknight: :swampert:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8almostanyability-1366172315

My least fav team. It's kinda shit tbh. If i were to prep again I'd build very different, while keeping Togekiss. The idea was that Tinted pod would lure Kiss checks such as Pex and offensive Fire and Steel types, but i neglected to consider that Atha runs intim corv A LOT, which handles pod pretty well, thus preventing it from actually making progress vs togekiss checks. I don't love the way I played the game either, I lost the ferro vs bounce mindgames early and misplayed around the geneset + terrak. In my defense, playing around an unknown gene when there's a supporting breaker with an amazing MU vs your team is very hard.

W5 vs bush (W): double band + demon mew https://pokepast.es/2950c55f570a8ecf
:tapu koko: :weavile: :cinderace: :skarmory: :swampert: :mew:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8almostanyability-1370489327

I took inspiration from Atha's W1 team. CB Weav + CB Ace has pretty nice offensive synergy since they share a subset of checks (bulky waters), while beating the other subset of each other's checks (bulky steels, bulky grounds and dragons). I knew I wanted to pair them w bounce mew to cover the hazard weakness, but i opted for demon mew instead of spikes cause I felt that the teams that can adequately check both my breakers (Psea Zap + Regen Cob) fold to demon mew pretty hard. The actual game was a pretty quick sac war of Weav vs Prima that I would eventually lose, but fortunately Mew was able to sweep a weakened team.

W6 vs MZ (L): unburden latias BO https://pokepast.es/026cc5f52e722339
:zarude: :heatran: :latias: :tapu koko: :swampert: :skarmory:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8almostanyability-1374782430

After getting owned by motherlove's unburden teams in tests i decided to build my own. Specifically i wanted to do zarude+tran+unburden cause i didn't wanna lean too heavily offensive. I ended up slapping together this core and SkarmPertKoko (my favorite at the time). I built a version with Lele over Latias first https://pokepast.es/38dea34f723e37bb, but I didnt love my FF Ferro MU so I went with Lati in the end. This is the loss I am most dissapointed in, because it was the most preventable. Basically, with proper play I should have never lost the game. If i went Zarude on the latios' memento (which I knew the Latios had) I could then bring in Lati on anything that tried to set up and win the 1v1. Failing that, if I just scouted for Solarbeam instead of playing like the game was already won i could have avoided the scenario in which i had to hit 2 magma storms to win (basically 50/50 odds). Sadly I didn't hit the magma storms so i lost.

W7 vs geerat (L) NG genesect + specs prima https://pokepast.es/47b9bb50126be8ac
:primarina: :genesect: :landorus-therian: :blissey: :cobalion: :mew:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8almostanyability-1379231621-weh9ligiv85ibpi0t87zv7348oobg1xpw

I took inspiration from the frequent usage of Psea specs breakers and decided to build my own take on it. I paired my primarina with Genesect cause i felt like the offensive synergy was close to perfect as I've already mentioned. The rest of the team was just filling out the roles that were missing, while straying a bit from my usual approach since I had a feeling it would get cteamed. I ended up doing Regen Bliss cause I had Prima to take advantage of DesoTran coming in, a physically defensive core of Cob + Intim Flip Turn Mew and Scarf Wandering Spirit Lando. These last 2 mons are a bit nonstandard, but I have p good justification for both. I ran flip turn on mew because the talonflame MU was pretty bad otherwise, with the only answer to +2 talon being my scarf lando. So i wanted my mew to be able to pivot in on it and pivot out while doing a decent chunk to basically make setting up much harder in the future. As for WS lando, it was initially dazzling, but the team was insanely weak to unburden kommo. I went for WS since it checks almost all triage variants about as well as dazzling while also covering unburden sweepers and punishing certain regens. Sadly I ended up facing Triage Celebi lmao, the one Triage it actually doesnt check, but that would not have been a problem if I hadn't thrown away HP on genesect vs gapdos, thinking it was slow because my scarf lando (that specifically crept 409) outsped it. Another loss I'm pretty disappointed in, since it felt like a game I should have won but didn't because I chose the wrong openings for my breakers.

Overall I think my teams were pretty good, apart from the one I brought W4 vs Atha, so I really don't think my 3/4 record does them any justice. All of my losses were preventable with even slightly better play, but that's obviously hindsight speaking. Despite my disappointing performance I had a lot of fun building, testing and playing AAA this time around. I think the meta is in a pretty good spot, probably the best it's been since I joined the council and I'm excited to play more of it in the seasonal, ladder tour, hopefully world cup and of course the much anticipated AAAPL if that ends up being approved.
 
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Isaiah

Here today, gone tomorrow
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UM/OM Leader
Thanks to everyone that submitted a sample team! We had a lot of high-quality submissions, so this batch has more teams than usual:

Choice Scarf PsySurge Azelf + Choice Band Adapt Terrakion Bulky Offense by UnnerfTalonflame
https://pokepast.es/c849ec74b7a33001

Regenvest Garchomp + Mold Breaker Heatran Balance by Think
https://pokepast.es/1eb550c46ed5748e

Choice Scarf Magic Guard Blacephalon + Magic Bounce Taunt Zarude by Think
https://pokepast.es/0f1fdaa441241cf1

Choice Band Technician Beat Up Weavile + Choice Band Desoland Cinderace Balance by Atha
https://pokepast.es/44d04e45ddf73b83

Swords Dance Triage Pangoro + Choice Band Adapt Zygarde Balance by aesf
https://pokepast.es/77c8270486ad7b9d

Swords Dance Regen Garchomp + Heal Bell Unaware Mew Balance by aesf
https://pokepast.es/3a280176b0cfdd13

Magic Guard Life Orb Talonflame + DesoLand Heatran Balance by The Number Man
https://pokepast.es/f17e883c809aadda

Flash Fire Iron Defense Ferrothorn + Choice Band Adapt Terrakion Balance by Heracross2.0
https://pokepast.es/c6436174156ad79d

Belly Drum Unburden Kommo-o + Quiver Dance Desoland Volcarona Screens Offense by MZ
https://pokepast.es/3eea0e92b10e741e

Choice Specs PrimSea Primarina + Magic Guard Life Orb Entei Bulky Offense by xavgb
https://pokepast.es/e5b9a4f9009fc6ad


On a different note, there's been discussion both in this thread and in the PS room/discord about a potential suspect for Weavile and/or Genesect, so I figure I should clarify the council's position. As of right now, we are not considering a suspect of any Pokemon in particular, and before any such action is taken in the future expect another post elucidating council insights/discussion.

PS: The VR might see a mini-update in the forseeable future.
 
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Isaiah

Here today, gone tomorrow
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
UM/OM Leader
and before any such action is taken in the future expect another post elucidating council insights/discussion.
This happened a lot sooner than I anticipated...

Currently, the council is considering/discussing action on two fronts:

1. Sleep Clause Mod vs. Sleep Moves Clause

Before anything, I should show the differences between what each of these clauses do.

Sleep Clause Mod:
1628880852549.png


Sleep Moves Clause:

1628882485713.png


As you can see, the former allows sleep moves (except when used by Mega Gengar in the tiers where it's allowed) as long as only one opposing Pokemon is put to sleep at a time, whereas the latter just outright bans all the sleep moves upfront. Currently, AAA uses the Sleep Clause Mod in its ruleset, but recent discussion has brought attention to the fact that the Sleep Clause Mod is more of a modification to game mechanics than an actual ban, and as such might be worth reconsidering. In practice, it restricts the use of certain moves rather than cleanly allowing/disallowing them, which can be argued as complex. As a user in the OM discord put it, " Sleep moves w/o gengar are still so much of an issue that we mod the game to nerf them". With other OMs such as STABmons which recently covered how uncompetitive sleep moves can be and actually implemented the Sleep Moves Clause already, we feel it's worth at least opening discussion and gathering the community's opinions on this topic before moving forward.

2. King's Rock (and potentially other luck-based elements)
1628881556881.png
This one probably doesn't require much explanation since it's so straightforward, but in essence it's no secret to anyone that there's been a recent wave of banning luck-based items in Standard tiers (see: SS OU and Natdex) and even as far back as the Kyurem suspect test here in AAA, there have been calls for a King's Rock ban. For anyone unfamiliar, what makes King's Rock potentially more of a nuisance than in other metas is that in AAA, Pokemon can give themselves the ability Skill Link, which in conjunction with a King's Rock brings their flinch chance up to ~41%. While this is no guarantee by any means, it can definitely introduce an element of RNG to would-be competitive battles that doesn't exactly have counterplay. Inner Focus is the only ability that prevents flinching, and realistically it's not worth running in pretty much every case. King's Rock aside, it's also worth considering:

1628882862295.png

All of these have luck-based elements with the potential to be uncompetitive as well. In the event of a King's Rock ban, would you all consider a ban of these item/abilities necessary as well?

Feel free to post any thoughts/opinions on this below :]
While the final decision will naturally remain the council's right to make, seeing what arguments people have for/against will help us make the overall best decision for the meta in the end.
 

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UT

Roaring 20s, tossing pennies in the pool
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Team Rateris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Appeals + C&C Lead
I would support the Sleep Moves Clause. I really dislike Sleep Mod Clause because it's pretty much the only time we actually change the mechanics of the battle, and I really don't like that precedent. If something is broken as it exists in the game, we ban it outright, not change how it works to be more balanced. If Sleep Mod Clause did not exist, and someone suggested it today, it would be dismissed out of hand, like suggesting we change Triage's priority to be +1 instead of +3.

I also feel like we don't lose anything by switching to a total ban of sleep. Very few mons use it, and it doesn't add much to the complexity of the game. Simpler bans are generally better, and banning sleep moves is a much simpler ban without any meaningful collateral.

While I don't like the luck based items and abilities, I feel less strongly about banning them. They're generally not as good, and certainly not as reliable, as non-luck-based sets, and there is a limited pool of abusers who can use them well (and most of them have better things to do with their time). There's also a little bit of a slippery slope; Focus Band is a luck-based item, but not up for discussion here. Scald is a luck-based move, but almost no one would call for a ban of that. Luck to some degree is always an element of Pokemon, so unless the luck-based sets become better than conventional sets, I am not sure I think they need to be banned.

Personally, I dislike these items/abilities and hate losing to them, and in that sense much like Pex I want them banned. But, personal wants are not the greatest way to make tiering decisions; I'm almost in a place where I would be happy if they were banned, but if asked to vote, I would vote no ban.
 
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iapt

the unsuspecting victim of darkness in the valley
is a Tiering Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Hi, just gonna give my two cents on Think's post above. I am fairly indifferent about forgoing the sleep clause mod for the sleep moves clause, because, outside of gengar, I cannot think of any big abusers of sleep. Another point I was thinking about, and mentioned in the OM discord was, if the sleep moves clause is implemented, would gengar be unbanned? Obviously, sets like sflo, adaptability and other more niche sets like normalize were certainly not insignificant, however, from my understanding, the uncompetitiveness of sleep was what pushed gengar over the edge into banned-land. Not saying it should or shouldn't be unbanned, just putting that thought out there. Another possibility could even be testing gengar down with all sleep moves banned. However, as UnnerfTalonflame said, "I also feel like we don't lose anything by switching to a total ban of sleep. Very few mons use it, and it doesn't add much to the complexity of the game." While I still have no strong feelings about the change, I say why not?

Onto luck items. Now, while OMs typically don't always follow suit when something is banned in a standard tier, in this situation I believe we should. Because of the ability (no pun intended) to give many different mons access to King's Link, it can become even more overbearing, especially if there are 2 users on the team, opposed to standard only having to worry about one (Cloyster). In terms of quick draw and quick claw, I saw a tour game get decided by having a slow mon go first 2 or 3 times in a row, and ultimately winning the game, and later the tour because of that, when otherwise the player in question almost certainly would have lost. I can't say I have ever seen anyone using stench or serene grace, so I have limited opinions on them.

Overall, I believe that changing from sleep clause mod to sleep moves clause makes little difference, and that king's rock, and one or both of quick claw and quick draw should be banned. While luck is unavoidable in pokemon, there probably shouldn't be ways to take advantage of luck and twist it to your favor. Thanks for reading and have a good day
 
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briefly adding to the discussion, I feel both matters are really worth discussing

- sleep: I actually never realized the difference between the two clauses and not even what tiers implement which clause, I think 99% of tiers have one of the two though, and tiering-wise Sleep Moves Clause should definitely be used. In an AAA perspective, I haven't seen much Sleep usage at all (correct me if this is wrong) so I don't think banning them is really needed, but leaving Sleep unrestricted seems too much, as per usual in every tier. I think the entire Sleep Clause Mod is in an awkward position in a tiering perspective, so I'd definitely support the tier to adapt to Sleep Moves Clause.

- kings rock: I'm honestly surprised these weren't banned when I saw them in samples and other high-tier teams, maybe they haven't influenced a major tour result yet (correct me if I'm wrong) but idk. As Think mentioned, mons can freely slap on skill link + kings rock with any multi-hit moves and cheese games, thus it's not easy to even anticipate/ prepare for luck. Obviously arguing over luck-based matters can go a long way but I think it's not really needed to go in-depth of that again in this thread, given that there is clearly more abusers in AAA than other metas, which have banned kings rock in the end after pages of argument.

- other luck items: stench should be fine since you give up another ability (notably skill link); serene grace might be suspect worthy but everyone's used to rachi and kiss hax everywhere and you give up another ability (boosting and utility), so yeah I'm kinda indifferent on that; quick claw and/or quick draw is probably the most suspect worthy but there aren't too many abusers, + you give up boosting item AND abil so setting up goes a long way
 
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Aight so OMPL finally ended a week ago, I'm here to share my teams and also use this opportunity to mention some cores I've been enjoying lately.
This post ended up long so brace thyself.

Pretty much every team was build around a tech that either would catch my opponent by surprise or just be really good against them generally. Not that the teams rely entirely on that and they're all good teams in other aspects, but I do value surprise factor in tour.


Team built around Heat Wave mglo Arch. I knew Osake preferred safe teams/pivot balance. Arch was also broken at that point in time and Heat Wave crushed every reliable long term answer (no swampert and chomp were not long term answers) and would probably catch Osake off-guard. It also paired really well with Band Zarude offensively as almost everyone's answer to it at this point was Cobal or Corv.
I struggled to build for the first week so ended up ditching all my drafts and building a CorvBlissPert after seeing UnnerfTalon's post with the exception of running Bounce Chans to not get owned by broketran.

Shaky start but I knew the tech was gonna work so I played safe until Cobal was removed and the game was pretty much won from here. I also baited an early wisp on my roost Kiss in the beginning which was super valuable for the end game: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8almostanyability-1354226846-92p1tmd3l8x7qvqsbef6n2mbtz1ti6upw


The Number Man is another pivot balance + breakers builder and his teams typically had excellent matchups against my HOs because he ran a lot of Pex, Unaware Chansey and scarf Fini. Taunt Gapdos is guaranteed progress vs fat in theory and you weaken everything with tkick + uturn. There's a couple of good offensive synergies I had toyed around with here such as Heatran + Kiss, Heatran + Barra and Barra + Whirlpool Pert which is extremely heat since ppl always stay in with Cobal to taunt or get rocks up. In theory trapping Cobal or Fini makes Barra a nightmare to deal with. Despite having good tools to make progress this is easily my least favourite team of the tour, I couldn't figure out how to satisfyingly round it off and Kiss really shouldn't be on this team imo.

This game was my most unfortunate game of the tour, the very hype moment where the whirlpool tech works and I get an early lead from the get go while the chat goes crazy unfortunately did not happen as wp missed turn 1 and Cobal got the freest of rocks up. It was an uphill battle from here, tnm probably had his best build of the tour and I hadn't considered Talon in prep at all. My lackluster meta knowledge is obvious in this game as I had a couple shaky plays and there were also a couple paths to victory that I had failed to consider. But I did get to talk with tnm a lot after this and we continued playing together and discussing ideas for the rest of the tour so perhaps it was actually a dub in the long run? https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8almostanyability-1357502102-pfmj11trboaowfokfsxnbvr36tzz8l0pw


Now I know what you're thinking. You're thinking "wow motherlove, this team is mad heat I'm impressed!" and I'm glad we agree on this. I spend a lot of time crafting a quality team around mixed Kommo-o before ditching it because it was garbage, building a webs team in 5 minutes and beating Osake about 12 times in a row in tests. For context, Atha almost got smashed by Osake's HO the week prior and Noivern was a recent ban in AAA since the last time I had built webs (old sample) which made it a ton easier. I'm not entirely sure what the main even is here but the two main offensive cores are Lucario + Mence and Azelf + Blace. Blace and Azelf can both boom on eachother's checks to allow the other to sweep while also providing defensive utility against various stuff. Boom webs also lets you keep offensive momentum and prevent defog. Eforce Blace is a very potent Toxapex bait as if you can double around (Azelf -> Lucario -> Blace) to have Blace vs full Pex, most sane people would stay in and knock, not expecting to get OHKOd by eforce. Adapt Lucario pretends to not be mixed by taking life orb damage, before destroying intim corv or dshield mew with its special coverage move (steel beam also acts as pseudo boom on defoggers such as zapdos). God Mence is a grass spam check, zapdos bait (for Lucario) and all-around excellent mon. This set doesn't have roost because I wanted eq to get rid of Heatran faster and Lucario should take care of Corv and mew in theory. Bullet punch Lucario and Primsea Koko are the main ways I prepped vs flying types and weavile. I was honestly very confident in winning this week as this team smashed everyone in tests, had a lot of surprise factor and gave me a lot of room to outplay.

The matchup was actually quite rough, but Lucario came through big time and carved big wholes in atha's team which ultimately fell apart. It was a hype game: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8almostanyability-1361695165


Geerat and I were coming up with goofy HO and were trying to find a good Corv bait. Settled on building with Galv Boomburst Rillaboom in a grasspam team. Team was build fairly fast and I challenged Osake to test, I sent Rilla on a swampert Uturn and Osake brough in his Intim Corv. Words cannot describe how excited I was at this moment, I invited Geerat to the game, OHKO Corv with Boomburst and slipped off my chair from all the moisture. I had build a bunch of "proper" teams that didn't seem to work outin tests and in my mind I had already pictured Rilla boombursting a corv in OMPL so decided to go for this team after some testing and polishing. The Metagross set is actually really good and won me a lot of end games, I'm still very pleased with that set. On paper I thought my main weakness was mew.

Anyway the tech did not work out and Rilla is actually super ass outside surprise factor. Fc had a much faster team than I anticipated and I hadn't faced offensive Cobalion in tests so didn't realise how weak I was to it. Annoyingly I also couldn't kill Genesect from full with any of my mons. There was a major miss in this game as Cobalion dodged a Power Whip that would've OHKOd it and opened the door for Bulu (or Metagross if Prim gets any chip whatsoever). The end game would've been super hard for both of us so I cannot say who would've come out on top for sure but I think they were favoured either way. Shoutouts to them they had a very cool team. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8almostanyability-1365802242
I actually improved on this team later on by removing Rilla and it's pretty decent, it's posted below.


Team built around demon mew which was yet unseen in AAA. I opted for life orb mew to beat pex and unaware Blob. At the time I couldn't figure out the best way to support demon mew (I know now, it's screens HO) and figured you would like a longer game with hazards up. Zarude and Blace were the mons I needed a hard counter to, I came up with ff Zarude as the most reliable way to beat Toxic Heatran and Koff Blace. It also pairs really well defensively with Physdef regen scarf Gapdos whom acts as my Zarude answer. Defensive scarf Gapdos was a set PandaDoux used to run and it's a pretty consistent check to Zarude. While this defensive core is good in and off itself it's actually kinda hard to fit on slower teams that want harder check to stuff like koko and Garchomp, so the rest of the team was pretty awkward. I came up with Magma + idef press Heatran to get rocks on teams with bounce blobs. Nihi is kinda off shoot but it checks triage fairies (in theory), gets me tspikes up, can surprise cripple psychics, walls talon and covers Bug Buzz Volcarona. Koko offsets the ground weakness of the team. I built a gazzilion versions of this team before having something I was half satisfied with and it all looks fairly solid on paper, but the team is massively weak to psyshock fairies which is why I'm not a huge fan of it, kind of a shame because it's a pretty cool team otherwise.

As far as the game goes I ran into a 100-0 matchup and won without much trouble. Coincidentally MZ also had a pretty cool steam engine mew set but that unfortunately didn't really work out this game https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8almostanyability-1369976441


I started prepping for Jrdn immidiately when the tournament started so this team was in the works for 6 weeks so I'm not gonna go through the entire building process but basically I knew I wanted to run Unburden because Jrdn had a habit of running garbage speed control. My defensive core is composed of mons that heavily pressure other defensive mons which helps pave the way for Necrozma. I opted for wisp Talon to cripple lando, chomp and pert because it kinda fit better than blitz on this team. Honestly this is the best team I've built this tour, I'm proud of it and I'm delighted to see how well it worked.

Really enjoyed this game, every member put in the work and Necro closed it off nicely: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8almostanyability-1374365596


So here's the thing, at the beginning of the week I inexplicably started beating everyone with Charge beam Heliolisk? I was winning too much and too consistently for it to just be a stroke of luck, so I then spent the entire week building the best Heliolisk team I could muster. I then replaced Heliolisk because it's not that good and went with TC Zarude to abuse this insanely good Dhelmise set that may or may not come from unfortunate living conditions.

I kept a really tight control on the game and the double grass core showed its worth: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8almostanyability-1379638662
I've been working everyone's name in the post for now but didn't say much here so... shoutouts queso :3


Second game vs Osake, I figured after spending weeks testing vs him that he'd be scared of Latios or Psyspam and run a rachi or smt. I started building around Specs Blace + Wandering spirit corv which would always make progress vs Osake's builds, but it made for teams that were too slow and I noticed Think had been running Inteleon (which is a mon I had dismissed prior) who also does well vs psyspam prep in general. I quite like the defensive core on this one and corv gave me a pretty good answer to Latios which Osake kinda likes. This team is kinda standard but it's honestly very good, everyone makes progress but mostly azelf breaks apart defensive answers to Inteleon. It's a very fast team with a lot of pivoting so it allows you to keep control on the game quite well.

Call it good prep or smt but Osake did end up pulling up with Incineroar and regen genesect as psyspam prep. I could tell from preview that lando was water absorb and I don't think Osake expected that, his team started falling apart afterwards https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8almostanyability-1382762488


Revenge vs FC, this team kinda just covers a lot of the stuff FC has been running this OMPL. Water absorb Talon is an aesf tech, it traps fini so that Barra can win. Bounce meant I could also afford Incineroar which rounds off the defensive core quite nicely. I then needed hazard control and settled with Excadrill I don't remember why. The matchup vs moldy heatran is quite rough unless I can trick it, but overall the team had a good blend of solid gameplan and surprise factor that I've had success with. Since I built it about an hour before the actual game I didn't have too much time to play around. I was only hoping not to face a Zarude (which I ended up facing anyway) but we pulled through.

Very pleased about how I played this one, all the key turns I needed to get right to win I managed to get right. So even thought it didn't at all go according to plan and I had a big scare when mew got crit, I managed to walk away with my revenge: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8almostanyability-1392802724

That about concludes the teams I've run in OMPL but I'll share a few other that I couldn't showcase any other way if it can help anyone get inspiration or just steal it for ladder.

Other teams I put the ones I prefer first
Screens HO I used for OML, it's honestly mad good, I used it on both my AAALT ladder runs, do steal.
OML Bounce Celebi + Blace team I mentionned prior, fun team, pretty good vs fatter builds
Very fun E-terrain team, albeit not super consistent
The good version of Grass spam
That specs Blace + WS corv team I mentionned
Pre-OMPL team that somehow still wins all the time
Last OML team, built around aesf's idea of regen breaker + heal bell
This is just the Helio team when it still had Helio
Psyspam team
Think mentionned a Zarude + Zygarde team so I made this
Rain as best as I can make it
Magnemite stall
band Terrak + Future sight rachi
Boom Licky goated
3 musketeers 3 genies
I figured everyone needs a standard TR in their builder
Cinderace 3 hazard stall
The only time I've built with Weavile
I've called this team "All tapus" until I remembered Bulu existed :/

Think I'd like to see the grass spam one and the J-Rock webs one in samples pls pretty pls kthanku :3

At this point I had planned to share some of the cores I think are underrated and more ppl should try, but sharing shitloads of teams kinda does that already so I'll just tell everyone to use Fini + DShield Kommo-o + Gterrain support (optional) or just Coba + Dhelmise and call it a Terrak counter.

Don't ban psy terrain it's not broke and it would make me very sad. Kbye.
 
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Eggs

some days, you just can't get rid of an egg
This happened a lot sooner than I anticipated...

Currently, the council is considering/discussing action on two fronts:

1. Sleep Clause Mod vs. Sleep Moves Clause

Before anything, I should show the differences between what each of these clauses do.

Sleep Clause Mod:
View attachment 364917

Sleep Moves Clause:

View attachment 364926

As you can see, the former allows sleep moves (except when used by Mega Gengar in the tiers where it's allowed) as long as only one opposing Pokemon is put to sleep at a time, whereas the latter just outright bans all the sleep moves upfront. Currently, AAA uses the Sleep Clause Mod in its ruleset, but recent discussion has brought attention to the fact that the Sleep Clause Mod is more of a modification to game mechanics than an actual ban, and as such might be worth reconsidering. In practice, it restricts the use of certain moves rather than cleanly allowing/disallowing them, which can be argued as complex. As a user in the OM discord put it, " Sleep moves w/o gengar are still so much of an issue that we mod the game to nerf them". With other OMs such as STABmons which recently covered how uncompetitive sleep moves can be and actually implemented the Sleep Moves Clause already, we feel it's worth at least opening discussion and gathering the community's opinions on this topic before moving forward.

2. King's Rock (and potentially other luck-based elements)
View attachment 364920This one probably doesn't require much explanation since it's so straightforward, but in essence it's no secret to anyone that there's been a recent wave of banning luck-based items in Standard tiers (see: SS OU and Natdex) and even as far back as the Kyurem suspect test here in AAA, there have been calls for a King's Rock ban. For anyone unfamiliar, what makes King's Rock potentially more of a nuisance than in other metas is that in AAA, Pokemon can give themselves the ability Skill Link, which in conjunction with a King's Rock brings their flinch chance up to ~41%. While this is no guarantee by any means, it can definitely introduce an element of RNG to would-be competitive battles that doesn't exactly have counterplay. Inner Focus is the only ability that prevents flinching, and realistically it's not worth running in pretty much every case. King's Rock aside, it's also worth considering:

View attachment 364928
All of these have luck-based elements with the potential to be uncompetitive as well. In the event of a King's Rock ban, would you all consider a ban of these item/abilities necessary as well?

Feel free to post any thoughts/opinions on this below :]
While the final decision will naturally remain the council's right to make, seeing what arguments people have for/against will help us make the overall best decision for the meta in the end.
A quote I've been slinging around for a while is "if there is discussion about King's Rock, just ban it". Essentially, if King's Rock/other RNG effects have become discussion-worthy, the uncompetitive nature of these effects probably isn't having a good influence on the metagame. I'm of the opinion that we should get rid of King's Rock, Quick Claw, and Quick Draw. Ironically, I find Serene Grace to be acceptable, as it makes other RNG effects more reliable and consistent, and I have not seen a good serene grace user a reason to ban Serene Grace, unlike the other RNG effects mentioned.

As for sleep, I've had a bone to pick with Sleep for a while. The mechanic itself is unhealthy and introduces excessive, game-determining RNG to a match. The difference between 1, 2, and 3 turn sleep is immense, and often not worth risking. A frequent result of this is that Pokemon put to sleep are effectively removed from the match, simply because an opponent managed to hit a sleep move or used No Guard + Sleep. In a format like AAA, with both an overall higher power level, more sleep users, and a pivot-heavy metagame, asleep Pokemon are even more of a dead slot, and it's much harder to find the turns to wake them up. Sleep is simply not fun, not competitive, and not an aspect of the game worth preserving.
 

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