iirc he drops his trainer card & the pc sees it? & that's the excuse they give for why you can name this juvenile delinquent "MR. PEE" or whatever
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Interesting take, and I could see it being true in some of the more outlandish cases. Lt Surge, for instance, obviously isn't a real name, and sounds just like the sort of title you win in war, like calling someone Gatling Gun Jones or Two-Bullet Peter. We're told by one of his underlings how he used Electric-types in the war so that fits. Chuck, similarly, sounds more like a nickname than anything else (not to mention it'd be hilarious if the brawny and uncouth Chuck was actually born Charles or something similar). Crasher Wake is canonically a title. Skyla definitely sounds like a name someone would choose for themselves, but idk maybe it's more common in the USA - I've never met someone with that name in the UK.
I'd honestly just take the nominative determinism route with some characters. Wattson, for instance, his big thing is laughter and engineering, so electricity fits that, but so could steel - but I could see him deciding electric-types are his bag. Volkner, too, may have had a similar route to Electric-types as Flint. It's sometimes far more overt with generic NPCs like the ones I cited though.
Thinking it over, though, with a lot of characters, though, I think most of their names are just about subtle enough to accept as a coincidence. Winona very, very passingly sounds like "wing", but it's also just a generally spacey and dreamy-sounding type of name, so it fits with her effervescent personality. Blaine is so vaguely related to fire (there's just as much of a link to the cold if you think of the word chilblains, interestingly given Blaine's backstory) that it's not really a strong link. The same goes for Grant, Byron, Roxanne, Sabrina, and a bunch of others I could name. Marshal has a vague link to fighting, but it's also just... a name. Clair, too, isn't a particularly dragonish name (Bulbapedia suggests it's derived from lair, as in "of a dragon", which... sure) nor is Wallace a very watery one. Giovanni has nothing to do with earth. Tate and Liza allegedly derives from levitate, but Tate & Lyle is a big sugar brand in the UK so it's what always comes to mind for me when I hear those names (shouldn't it be Tate and Liv/Livia?)
Obviously I'm going via English names here, but the English names have little to do with the original Japanese names. So many characters are named after flowers and grains and berries and vegetables in the Japanese versions that it's a whole other conversation.
I know so many people (myself included) who didn't get the intent of the original scene in GSC, where he just declares his name to be "???"; I thought his canonical name was literally ??? for a good few years. No wonder HGSS had to make it more obvious what was going on.
I think it's supposed to be a pun on "geo".
Oh, yeah. Duh. Tbf though, it may also have been that the mob boss element came first, and that might have been another happy coincidence. But either's plausible!
Just to add on to my earlier post, it also strikes me that a lot of the names are allusions to real-world media and events too, and this adds another layer. As mentioned, Giovanni is a name that evokes mob imagery in popular culture. Sabrina contains all the letters of brain, but part of me wonders if it's meant to be a reference to Sabrina the Teenage Witch as well. Similarly, I'm replaying Colosseum atm (you should all click that link, sneaky plug plug) and the chief of police there is called Sherles, obviously a reference to Sherlock Holmes. But as far as I'm aware Sherlock Holmes doesn't exist in the Pokemon world* so that's more for the benefit of us the audience - it's not as if his parents named him Sherles and he said "well, I guess being a policeman is the only viable route in life for me". In-universe, it's a seeming pure coincidence.
Maybe that is wildly overthinking it though, idk.
________
*which is not to say it couldn't exist, of course - the games and anime are variously explicit about linking the real world to the Pokemon world (the film Titanic is referenced in the anime, for example)
More like we're not supposed to think about it. Why do their names conveniently match the Type they specialize in? Because it's easy for little kids to remember.
- For the Kanto Gym Leaders, who was the Rock-type one? Brock the rock!
- Water? Misty is gonna make things misty!
- Electric? Lt. Surge... Oh, well, as you said that does sound like a nickname he gave himself.
- Grass? Erika... well that's a normal name which conveniently is part of a plant species name.
- Psychic? Sabrina like the teenage witch, but with psychic powers and brains!
- Poison? Well Koga is another who keeps his Japanese name cause he's a ninja.
- Fire? Blaine is blazing like a flame!
- Ground? Giovanni the mob boss gonna teach you some geology, start digging your grave.
Sure, if you're a Doylist. But Watsonian analysis is more fun.
Okay a little bit of mystery, and going into the old discussion of archetypes, I sort of noticed this soon after Toxtricity was revealed two years ago, but these three seem to fit a common "archetype". Toxtricity seems to share a lot in common with Lucario and Zoroark, the two most marketed mons of Gens 4 and 5, respectively, minus the fact that it's not shoved in everyone's faces to the same extent that Lucario is and didn't get a movie before its generation like Lucario and Zoroark did: however, pictures in USUM depict what seems to be G-Max Toxtricity so it was likely in creation well before Gen 8 began.
But in-game mechanics wise, these three seem to share a large amount in common:
- Two-stage line (all three)
- First stage has a catch rate of 75, second stage has a catch rate of 45. This is unique to the three of them.
- Toxel is a baby Pokemon like Riolu. While Zorua isn't a baby Pokemon, it evolves at Level 30, which is also Toxel's evolution level
- All three are in the Medium-Slow exp group, which is rare for two-stage evolution lines (the vast majority are in the Medium-Fast EXP group)
All in all, these three seem to fit a distinct "archetype" in a sense. Only...the question is what exactly is supposed to stand out about Lucario, Zoroark, and Toxtricity? The other clear-cut archetypes are distinct in their function in the grand scheme of things:
- The early mammals evolve once around Level 20, and are weaker than everything else
- The early-route birds have one of two tendencies aside from being obtained early game: either they are three-stage and evolve around the same levels as a Starter, or some are two-stage and evolve once around Level 20 like the rodents
- The Pikaclones are single stage and Electric-type and cute. Really simple in that regard.
- The early-route bugs are obtained early and in many cases, evolve very early.
- The pseudo-legendary is obtained late usually, is in the Slow EXP group, and evolves late, later than any other Pokemon from that particular generation they debuted in, and has 600 BST in the final stage. Catch rate is consistent 45 across.
- The starters are obvious: three-stage Grass/Fire/Water, first mon you get in a game, consistent catch rate of 45, etc.
- Fossils are, usually, except with Galar, two-stage lines who can only be revived from a fossil. Like starters and pseudos, they always have a catch rate of 45.
When it comes to Lucario, Zoroark, and Toxtricity, there are clear commonalities between them that are distinct, but I'm not really sure how to label these three or what specifically denotes what makes the three of them similar to each other and stand out from the rest. It's interesting that these three are just that similar yet there's no clear way to identify them.
The Marketable Archetype.
And, like the saying says, third time's the charm and they've finally come up with a good design.
Though I've got to admit, I had not noticed they had traits in common.
Okay a little bit of mystery, and going into the old discussion of archetypes, I sort of noticed this soon after Toxtricity was revealed two years ago, but these three seem to fit a common "archetype". Toxtricity seems to share a lot in common with Lucario and Zoroark, the two most marketed mons of Gens 4 and 5, respectively, minus the fact that it's not shoved in everyone's faces to the same extent that Lucario is and didn't get a movie before its generation like Lucario and Zoroark did: however, pictures in USUM depict what seems to be G-Max Toxtricity so it was likely in creation well before Gen 8 began.
But in-game mechanics wise, these three seem to share a large amount in common:
- Two-stage line (all three)
- First stage has a catch rate of 75, second stage has a catch rate of 45. This is unique to the three of them.
- Toxel is a baby Pokemon like Riolu. While Zorua isn't a baby Pokemon, it evolves at Level 30, which is also Toxel's evolution level
- All three are in the Medium-Slow exp group, which is rare for two-stage evolution lines (the vast majority are in the Medium-Fast EXP group)
All in all, these three seem to fit a distinct "archetype" in a sense. Only...the question is what exactly is supposed to stand out about Lucario, Zoroark, and Toxtricity? The other clear-cut archetypes are distinct in their function in the grand scheme of things:
- The early mammals evolve once around Level 20, and are weaker than everything else
- The early-route birds have one of two tendencies aside from being obtained early game: either they are three-stage and evolve around the same levels as a Starter, or some are two-stage and evolve once around Level 20 like the rodents
- The Pikaclones are single stage and Electric-type and cute. Really simple in that regard.
- The early-route bugs are obtained early and in many cases, evolve very early.
- The pseudo-legendary is obtained late usually, is in the Slow EXP group, and evolves late, later than any other Pokemon from that particular generation they debuted in, and has 600 BST in the final stage. Catch rate is consistent 45 across.
- The starters are obvious: three-stage Grass/Fire/Water, first mon you get in a game, consistent catch rate of 45, etc.
- Fossils are, usually, except with Galar, two-stage lines who can only be revived from a fossil. Like starters and pseudos, they always have a catch rate of 45.
When it comes to Lucario, Zoroark, and Toxtricity, there are clear commonalities between them that are distinct, but I'm not really sure how to label these three or what specifically denotes what makes the three of them similar to each other and stand out from the rest. It's interesting that these three are just that similar yet there's no clear way to identify them.
This, basically. Lucario was such a massive hit that they very clearly tried to copy it with Zoroark. If you look at how Zoroark was handled, it basically exaggerates all the factors that played into Lucario's star power:
- Lucario was the first non-legendary Pokemon to headline a movie, and Zoroark was the second
- Lucario was one of a handful of Pokemon revealed prior to Gen IV, while Zoroark was the first Gen V Pokemon to be revealed
- Lucario was a one-time-only Pokemon in DPP, and so is Zoroark, but while Lucario came via an egg, Zoroark and its pre-evo were event-exclusive
- Lucario was frequently given out via events with special moves, as was Zoroark
- Both are used by highly popular and powerful in-game NPCs
I'm pretty sure Toxtricity was designed with that exact same mindset as the other two, although it turns out all three Pokemon were created by different individuals. It's been handled in a broadly similar way - obtainable just once in-game from an egg, unique and interesting typing, partially restricted via events. And it's a great design that's pretty popular with people (though having two forms helps with that). I actually posted a thread a while back about each generation's "breakout Pokemon": all three were designed to be this, but only Lucario and Toxtricity made it. Why exactly this archetype wasn't used in Gen VI and VII isn't clear, though for Gen VII the closest thing is probably Type:Null and Silvally - although with that said, the breakout Pokemon in Gen VII was pretty clearly Mimikyu. Gen VI is less clear-cut, though.
I honestly think the event exclusivity was what prevented Zoroark from reaching Lucario’s heights. While one could expect to be able to use Lucario on an in-game team (albeit after hatching Riolu and training it to match the rest of your team, though this is helped by the next two gyms being weak to it and much of Team Galactic getting stuffed as well), with Zorua and Zoroark one had to not only beat the game, but travel through the other half of Unova to unlock what was needed, *and then* transfer an event-exclusive Pokémon over that is Lv. 25, probably well under the level of the team that by now is likely ready to take on the Elite Four again. Thus, there’s barely any time to bond with Zoroark as there was with Lucario. And the kicker, they aren’t even Mythicals that would be worth being locked behind post-game, just regular Pokémon with a nifty gimmick.
So tl;dr by making Zorua and Zoroark unnecessarily obtuse to get in BW1 GF killed any chances of repeating the success of Lucario. Thank you for coming to my TED talk please sign my guestbook
Gamefreak stop locking cool Pokemon (including mythicals) behind events challenge (IMPOSSIBLE) (GONE WRONG)
Slight correction: you actually can use Zoroark on an in-game playthrough in BW1 well before the post-game through the events necessary. You don't need the Poke Transfer Lab to transfer the event Celebi or the shiny Beasts from Gen 4: in fact, if you transfer them this way, they straight up cannot be used to unlock the Zorua and Zoroark events. Once you reach Castelia City, if you go to one of the buildings in the end street, a person can give you a special feature known as the Relocator, which is what can actually be used to specifically transfer Celebi, the shiny Beasts, and the Lock Capsule (which never released unfortunately). This can be done within three Gyms, and right there you can use the event Celebi to get a Zorua in the Game Freak building which is Level 10: however, this is pretty underleveled even for that point, or on the other hand, the Level 25 Zoroark can be encountered once you reach Nimbasa which is four Gyms in, but while this Zoroark will be properly leveled at the point where your team is needed, it's already immediately evolved which makes it feel a bit less special if you opt to use this already evolved Zoroark.
Really the problem with Zoro is that it is event exclusive as you said, which means if you missed out on the M13 events from the HGSS days or don't own a Gen 4 game at all your chances of getting Zoroark at all to begin with are nonexistent without hacking, so new players who had BW1 as their first game pretty much had zero chance of being able to get the mon at all. That's also part of the problem: the events Zoroark and Zorua are tied to specifically require owning a Gen 4 game and having gotten the event Celebi and/or the Shiny Beasts when they were being distributed, which was a while before BW1 even released. This is rectified in BW2 where it's an in-game gift Pokemon, but not many people bought BW2 to begin with compared to BW1 so that didn't help that much.
Another thing is that Gen 5 ultimately wasn't that popular or iconic when it came down to it, and is generally associated with a decline in Pokemon interest as a whole amongst the masses compared to Gen 4. If Gen 3 is the point where many Gen 1/2 kids dropped playing Pokemon, Gen 5 was that for the Gen 4 wave of kids. Speaking a Gen 4 kid myself, Gen 5 happened when I was in middle school. And it's no secret at that age kids are in a phase where they think they are "too cool" for things like Pokemon, and most people who played Pokemon at that age were looked at as weirdos. Amongst my age group Gen 5 was only played by fairly small, niche groups of peers and there wasn't a new generation of kids for Gen 5 to attract either: that didn't come until Gen 6 when the next generation of kids was established. So ultimately Gen 5 was kind of in that limbo period where not a lot of kids were into Pokemon, and that hurt the popularity of its mons collectively in the grand scheme of things. Coming extremely late in the DS's life cycle, at a point where it was not only being taken over by the 3DS, but also at the point where most people who bought the DS didn't play it anymore, was not a good thing for Gen 5 either. It's no surprise, given these circumstances, that it's fairly rare for Gen 5 Pokemon to make it into popular spin off media: the Pokemon Unite game, which bases most of its roster on popularity, has only one Gen 5 rep (Crustle, who is frankly an odd pick), and the only other Gen 5 mon to make it into a popular spin off title thus far is Chandelure in Pokken.
When it comes to the Gen 5 mons individually, though, while Zoroark didn't reach the levels of Lucario in terms of stardom, it still did end up being quite popular. It was in the Top 30 in the Pokemon of the Year Poll of 2020, at 23rd place, and amongst Unova mons, the second most popular Unova mon, only being beaten by Chandelure (who in the total poll was 18th place). That's still pretty impressive, and Zoroark for the most part did succeed in becoming a popular Pokemon, despite some of the cards being stacked against both it and Gen 5 as a whole at launch.
So yeah, this was a thing which... just never got any followup. Perhaps they were planning further spinoffs of Colosseum? Since Shadow Pokemon were never heard of in the MSG I can only assume it's the regions directly surrounding Orre, which going by its real-world basis would be regions based off of Utah, Nevada, New Mexico, California, and Mexico (all places I'd very much like to see). But this would seem to imply that there are more Shadow Pokemon than those we see in Colosseum. It's especially interesting given that Wes and Michael only ever bother with Shadow Pokemon in their own region. If there are others, then shouldn't there be someone doing something about that?
Actually, perhaps this (whether deliberately or not) can provide a plausible accounting for Wes and Rui's absence from XD - perhaps Wes (much like the player character from BW1) leaves Orre to hunt down the Shadow Pokemon in other regions, and is fighting Cipher on multiple fronts.
Either way, I hope we return to Poke-America next generation, as the pattern so far suggests we might. There's so much to explore (literally a whole continent between Orre and Unova) and some potentially really interesting regions to see. I don't expect the Gamecube games to ever be revisited, but it's really cool to slowly fill in the map of the Pokemon world.
I'm pretty sure that Game Freak doesn't consider Orre canon, they didn't even both defining it in the mainline games, instead listing any Pokemon caught there as being from "A distant land", which I should point out is NOT a unique name, there are numerous locations coded into the mainline games called "A distant land", it is used for whenever the game a Pokemon is from is undefined, like How in Sun and Moon Pokemon from the Gen II VC games and USUM are listed as being from a Distant Land(probably to avoid interface spoilers via hacking, but they are still coded to have the Gameboy and Gen VII markings, respectively)
Additionally, Colosseum and XD share the same Game Identifier, something which no other games do, since even paired versions have their own separate ones. It shows how little GF regard the 2 gamecube games, most likely due to the fact that they didn't make them themselves.
I mean that's kind of standard for all spin-off regions even if they connect to the main series, like Fiore. Poketopia, for instance, is just "a lovely place" on the summary screen of the Pokemon that come from there in Gen IV, then counted as part of Sinnoh in all future generations.
Like I said, I'm not expecting a return to Orre ever. Even if we were to get California, for instance, as a Pokemon region I'm not expecting there to be any connection. Hell, Alola is geographically closer to Orre than Kanto based on their real-world locations and yet no-one in Alola mentions Orre.
It's just enjoyable for me personally to fill in the map. Since I've always bought into the idea that the Pokemon world is just Earth with different borders and place names I probably think about how the regions link up more than most. But I get not everyone does.
Actually, Lovely Place is a singular location in the coding and is used for many different download events over the years, and unlike the Colosseum and XD Pokemon the Battle Revolution events use one of the core DS titles for their game of origin rather than Battle Revolution themselves(which is why when transferred to later gens it says they are from Sinnoh and not Distant Land).
Also what I'm trying to say is that there is always the chance that GF decides to make a region based off of the same locations that regions have used in spin-offs over the years(Parts of Japan not in Gen I-IV for the Ranger games, Southwest US for the Gamecube titles, ect) with no regard to the fact that non-Gamefreak companies made games that used those areas as inspiration previously.
While Evolutions isn't necessarily "canon", this part here feels relevant for confirming what we've only kind of thought before: Ghetsis' right arm (& hand) is scarred black (also he wears a glove, which didnt seem to be present in the BW1 opening but it was also pretty stylized).
I think the general thoughts on this have either been Kyurem specifically (ie: frostbite) or Reshiram/Zekrom summoned and fucked him up
Since it looks like a burn, specifically, I think this is specifically more on the latter end but let me into a specific theory of mine...
We know from dialog from Ghetsis, that's repeated in the Evolutions episode "Since I couldn't become the hero and obtain the legendary Pokémon myself"
We also know that it seems like the Pokemon can only (normally) show themselves to their perceived heroes and are inert in the stones otherwise
Dragonspiral Tower was seemingly locked off (though there's a skylight in Zekrom/Reshiram's chamber...but maybe that happened when zekrom/reshiram woke up), but Relic Castle was fairly well known and in fact Ghetsis head straight there to try & cut you off from the other stone
And so: Ghetsis in years prior had found the stone and knew the legend in full and tried to force the dragon out. Specifically, he found it in the Relic Castle, as it was more open and easier to explore [on his own?].
The dragon, rather than come out of the stone or just remaining innert, instead rejected Ghetsis and electrocuted/immolated his arm as punishment...beause he was holding the orb in his right hand, so it took the brunt of the shock/burn. The thing that made me think of this specifically was honestly seeing hilda hold it so firmly with her right hand in the episode, just a bit clicked as i went "wait those things would remain an orb in almost every other circumstance"
He either left the orb there (then found and donated to the museum later) or took it with him to study then came to return it so he could set up a whole Plot in motion if Dragonspiral was a bust (have the rightful King go back to the castle and find the orb and blah blah blah wow its like a fairy tale).
I say Relic Castle in particular because he had to have suspected the museum had the Light Stone: he specifically had team plasma attack it to get a dragon to revive but they stole a head so he wrote it off. So why head to the Relic Castle post dragonspiral tower? To fuck with Alder & the player and taunt them primarily, while putting on a show for the Plasma grunts/N.
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What's the deal with Toxicroak's anime colors?
It's the only Pokemon that's experienced something like this and it's never been fixed. At this point I'm left to assume it's somehow deliberate but like... why?
It's the only Pokemon that's experienced something like this and it's never been fixed. At this point I'm left to assume it's somehow deliberate but like... why?
I think it's Dream World art is also the same color as it's anime appearanceWhat's the deal with Toxicroak's anime colors?
It's the only Pokemon that's experienced something like this and it's never been fixed. At this point I'm left to assume it's somehow deliberate but like... why?
It's even weirder than Smeargle having it's normal and shiny colors flipped
Gengar has also been consistently colored weirdly in the show. Way darker than it's usually portrayed, with lighter eyes as well. Except Ash's Gengar, for some reason. That one specifically is colored like a normal Gengar.What's the deal with Toxicroak's anime colors?
It's the only Pokemon that's experienced something like this and it's never been fixed. At this point I'm left to assume it's somehow deliberate but like... why?
Funny enough Bulbapedia lists Ash's as an "alternatively colored Gengar"
I mean, it's not exactly colored like the actual Gengar art, but it looks way more accurate than most Gengar in the show which are almost just pitch black
Tbf the Gengar thing has a pretty reasonable explanation in that they were probably being more faithful to its darker appearances in earlier games.
By the time the games began using Sugimori art colors in Gen 3+ the anime Gengar design had become iconic enough to where it just stuck. Even then, Ash's Gengar in Journeys did eventually "fix" it, albeit quite late.
None of these circumstances apply to Toxicroak, its Gen 4 sprites didn't have alternate colors and the anime never showed a fixed version of the palette at any point afaik
By the time the games began using Sugimori art colors in Gen 3+ the anime Gengar design had become iconic enough to where it just stuck. Even then, Ash's Gengar in Journeys did eventually "fix" it, albeit quite late.
None of these circumstances apply to Toxicroak, its Gen 4 sprites didn't have alternate colors and the anime never showed a fixed version of the palette at any point afaik
Hmmm, you're right. Well, technically Toxicroak does have some alternate colors, but it doesn't really provide any clarity.Tbf the Gengar thing has a pretty reasonable explanation in that they were probably being more faithful to its darker appearances in earlier games.
By the time the games began using Sugimori art colors in Gen 3+ the anime Gengar design had become iconic enough to where it just stuck. Even then, Ash's Gengar in Journeys did eventually "fix" it, albeit quite late.
None of these circumstances apply to Toxicroak, its Gen 4 sprites didn't have alternate colors and the anime never showed a fixed version of the palette at any point afaik
Its coloration in the show almost seems like a middle ground between its normal and shiny colorations. I have no guesses as to why.