So if someone loses to another trainer one time, they should forever be weaker than the person that beat them no matter what? That doesn't make any logical sense at all. Especially since that fight was three years ago.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon
- Thread starter BriarRose
- Start date
So if someone loses to another trainer one time, they should forever be weaker than the person that beat them no matter what? That doesn't make any logical sense at all. Especially since that fight was three years ago.
Something I find kind of annoying is how Hitmontop feels a bit all over the place with its theming.
The Japanese name suggests its basis is Capoeira, the way Hitmonlee's is Kick-Boxing and Hitmonchan is "regular" Boxing. A lot of the flavor suggests Hitmontop's spinning isn't just a secret art or technique it reserves for combat, but it can actively move faster while spinning than by conventional walking. Even if this doesn't necessarily mean it travels well, this all gives me the sense that Hitmontop's emphasis should have been on Speed (as the stat is often correlated to reflexes/reaction in battle if not to literal movement across distance), yet Hitmontop's Base Speed is the lowest of the three Evolutions.
Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan make more sense with even just for flavor since Kicking is a very aggressive form of attack that can leave one vulnerable if done wrong due to commitment, while Boxing is often depicted as a sport where fighters must be able to take a punch or three and still hit back harder. Frankly Hitmontop having the highest DEF and the lowest Speed feels backwards along that theming, but even if the stats were never known, its evolution method feels out of line with the Martial Art they based it on.
That said I did find a lot of nice details while looking into these that will probably be in the "thing your like" thread shortly, though it does make the above mentioned oddity vs alternative stick out a bit more to me in noticing.
The Japanese name suggests its basis is Capoeira, the way Hitmonlee's is Kick-Boxing and Hitmonchan is "regular" Boxing. A lot of the flavor suggests Hitmontop's spinning isn't just a secret art or technique it reserves for combat, but it can actively move faster while spinning than by conventional walking. Even if this doesn't necessarily mean it travels well, this all gives me the sense that Hitmontop's emphasis should have been on Speed (as the stat is often correlated to reflexes/reaction in battle if not to literal movement across distance), yet Hitmontop's Base Speed is the lowest of the three Evolutions.
Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan make more sense with even just for flavor since Kicking is a very aggressive form of attack that can leave one vulnerable if done wrong due to commitment, while Boxing is often depicted as a sport where fighters must be able to take a punch or three and still hit back harder. Frankly Hitmontop having the highest DEF and the lowest Speed feels backwards along that theming, but even if the stats were never known, its evolution method feels out of line with the Martial Art they based it on.
That said I did find a lot of nice details while looking into these that will probably be in the "thing your like" thread shortly, though it does make the above mentioned oddity vs alternative stick out a bit more to me in noticing.
That's not the point. The fact is Lance surpassing Blue is not an idea that is supported in really any way by in-game events. It just comes completely out of left field and directly contradicts what occurred three years ago. It wasn't even a thing back in the original GSC.
The hierarchy of Red > Blue > Lance as the strongest Kanto/Johto trainers is something that is pretty well established in my view. You would think Lance surpassing Blue would be significant enough to at least allude to it some way through a quote or something in the games. But no, nothing.
If they literally just swapped their levels in their rematches it would logically flow perfectly. But as it stands, it does not I'm sorry.
I think it's an issue of Gameplay and Story segregation. Logically Lance should be stronger than Blue by now if Blue has simply become a Gym Leader and remained at that level (Red goes off to train independently which may suggest responsibilities of these positions could interfere with it), and Lance himself has progressed from E4 master to the Actual Champion, but this doesn't reflect well in the Level Curve of GSC, and HGSS just treats everyone as basically the same strength level for rematches that are purely a gameplay feature rather than a representation of their story strength anyway. Trainers who were previously formidable going out out practice isn't a concept alien to Pokemon since they use the same explanation for Alder losing to N despite his battle showing a team that far surpasses N's on the level curve alone if nothing else when battled later (whether the rematch or B2W2, wherein that team is weaker than his BW team perhaps since he has left the Champion role formally).
The Blackthorn Gym is lava-themed even though every Pokémon used by the trainers there is aquatic.
Yeah but at least with Alder it's established that he's kind of lukewarm about the idea of being a Champion, which is enough for me to get behind him falling in and out of practice.
With Blue, he's always been portrayed as a pretty competitive dude. There isn't much if anything in HGSS that to me suggests he would let himself lose to Lance at some point in that three year span. It feels like too big of an event to just completely ignore.
As I said, had they literally just swapped their levels, it would make complete sense in my view.
His comments on Cinnabar Island suggest that he's a little more circumspect about being a trainer now and not quite so competitive. I can buy that he's stalled a little bit as a trainer, especially since he doesn't seem to get many challengers as Gym Leader.
Speaking of Blue, one little thing that annoys me is how at the Indigo Plateau in RBY/FRLG Oak says to him: "...do you understand why you lost? You have forgotten to treat your Pokémon with love and trust. Without them, you will never become a Champ again!"
Like, what's the message here? Apparently it's "you can become Champion once while treating your Pokemon poorly but twice? Absolutely not!"
(EDIT: actually Oak says this every time you become Champion so I guess the message is "you can become Champion x times while treating your Pokemon poorly but x+1 times? Absolutely not!" where x is however many times you've already become Champion.)
Also Blue does become Champion again. I can buy that it's gameplay/story segregation in Gen 1 where everyone acts like it's the first time every time you challenge the League, but in Gen 3 he quite explicitly reclaims the title against the buffed Elite Four.
Last edited:
I went to check this because I was pretty sure they didn't start changing text on E4 rematches until Gen V and...well, whaddya know, Blue has one line changed to hint that this isn't their first go-round. A grand total of two text changes between the five, BTW (the other from Lorelei, who declares her grand return from the Seviis. Not a peep from the others.)
I'm also annoyed that they are so tied to this weird Evo method that they haven't added anything else to the family. I get that most mons don't gain additional evolutions, but this family is already a 3-way split that involved multiple generations, and it's not like there's a dearth of martial arts to choose from. But nope, they picked an evo method that precludes any new members, so there won't be any. It's just an obvious miss.
When evolving Tyrogue, you'll get a Hitmonlee if its Attack is greater than its Defense, and a Hitmonchan if its Defense is greater than its Attack. Hitmontop is framed as the midpoint, with it being the result of equal Attack and Defense.
However, when you look at their base stats, Hitmonchan is the midpoint, with its Attack, Defense, and Speed being roughly the average between Hitmonlee's and Hitmontop's.
This family is so weird. Basing Tyrogue's evolution on how it's trained is a cool idea (especially if the lore in the Hoenn Pokedex entry about training regimens was planned from the start, which is probably was) but EVs / stat experience is an extremely obscure mechanic even with a strategy guide, and the end result doesn't even reflect the training.
Teheee joke is on you, if they really wanted they can also add another stat to the mix, and have it "if max HP / Attack / Defense / Speed" or even special defense.
Imagine in few generations to need hitmontop you'd need to have all 6 stats equal
Tiny, deeply annoying nitpick: Lance notes that you've returned, it's just Bruno and Agatha that don't.
And then in Alola he's... kind of the same as ever.
Well yeah, it fits GSC perfectly. GF thinks of something cool. Inserts in the game. Doesn't actually consider it would work.
It is all smoke and mirrors.
Thanks, Bulbapedia.
Tail high for three whole generations following its debut.
XY onwards fixed it, though.
I can see it maybe making a little sense storywise. Like say Blue also goes to Mt. Silver where he picks up his Tyranitar and then gets throttled by Red so decides to come back to Viridian instead of going back to be the “champion” (hard to feel that way after Red destroys him I guess) and relaxes a bit more. Lance meanwhile has clearly done some travelling (and you’d assume, training) given he’s replaced half his team with Hoenn and Sinnoh mons.
Tail high for three whole generations following its debut.
XY onwards fixed it, though.
Is it? Gen 3s seems fine. XY if anything is too low, but it's still fine
I think the joke is that "tail low" holds its tail high.
Why is Zygarde-Complete so small when dynamaxed compared to other legendaries? My best guess is that any size larger would cause clipping issue in certain stadiums, but the end result is Zygarde looking like a manlet.
Last edited:
My guess is the model scaler is unversal and something about Zygarde's model, judging by the weird perspective here, scales from the feet to the upper ...uhhh...snake...elbow...spike thing. while zekrom goes from its feet to the "top" of its head (discounting the spike). Probably something about the animation bones involved and the width of the Pokemon in general, too.
Quriks of the models involved, basically.
Quriks of the models involved, basically.
Not really an annoyance, just something that's very cursed.
"After two Binacle find a suitably sized rock, they adhere themselves to it and live together. They cooperate to gather food during high tide."
"Seven Binacle come together to form one Barbaracle. The Binacle that serves as the head gives orders to those serving as the limbs."
Each individual hand of a Binacle or Barbaracle is its own separate entity. That's not the cursed part. The cursed part is that Barbaracle's legs are sentient beings. These poor bastards have to carry around five other Binacle and two rocks for the rest of their lives. They don't seem to have eyes, but I think that works in their favor because otherwise their faces would be directly on the ground most of the time.
"After two Binacle find a suitably sized rock, they adhere themselves to it and live together. They cooperate to gather food during high tide."
"Seven Binacle come together to form one Barbaracle. The Binacle that serves as the head gives orders to those serving as the limbs."
Each individual hand of a Binacle or Barbaracle is its own separate entity. That's not the cursed part. The cursed part is that Barbaracle's legs are sentient beings. These poor bastards have to carry around five other Binacle and two rocks for the rest of their lives. They don't seem to have eyes, but I think that works in their favor because otherwise their faces would be directly on the ground most of the time.
No, they're explicitly sentient.
"Barbaracle's legs and hands have minds of their own, and they will move independently. But they usually follow the head's orders."