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Unpopular opinions

Ok so this may sound like partial backpedaling but I did play up how much I dislike Megas for comedy purposes. I don't outright despise the mechanic or any of the designs tied to it, I just think its in-game usage did literally everything wrong and that several Pokemon that could use new evos are now held hostage because of it. Still glad they're gone, but I'm not mad at them, just disappointed.
 
I guess there's still hope for regional evolutions for some of the Pokemon that Mega Evolution shafted out of a proper evolution.

On a conceptual level, though, I still think Mega Evolution was far more interesting than Z-Moves or Dynamax, and probably Terastal at least by the sounds of it. Mega Evolution at least lifted some Pokemon out of obscurity, like Kangaskhan, Beedrill, Sableye, Mawile, etc., even if there were also some Pokemon who didn't really need a new form, like Garchomp, Tyranitar, and Gengar. Z-Moves and Dynamax mostly just made Pokemon who were already really good even better, they didn't really give any low tier Pokemon a new lease on competitive viability.

That being said, all of that could be accomplished by simply giving those Pokemon standard evolutions.
 
I can absolutely get on board with '[Pokemon] should've gotten a regular evolution instead of a Mega-evolution and it sucks that the gimmick might've locked out that possibility forever' but when the sentiment becomes '[Pokemon]'s Mega should've just been its regular evolution' I get a little confused. Imo virtually none of the Megas work as regular evolutions without a pretty thorough redesign, both in terms of appearance and battle capability.
 
If you asked me back in the day I wouldn't have told you that Regional forms would be more stable on a form by form basis than mega evolutions. It's very surprising to me.

Like we're now at the point where multiple games jump through hoops to include regional forms of a pokemon from OTHER regions through trades or whatnot, and they're annoying to breed properly because of the way they're implemented. It's like Magnezone and Moss Rocks all over again, games are burdened in some tangible way to make access to these forms possible. This is one reason why I hate regional forms, I don't particularly have an attachment to the "worldbuilding" aspect of them, they're very inconvenient from a mechanical standpoint, they take up slots for wholly new and original pokemon, and they often undermine a pokemon's place in their debut generation.

Megas were a mistake too, but megas were items, and implementing items was not difficult to do when you can just shove them into a battle facility. Hell, if they really ran with it I'll bet they would have just made a universal "mega stone" (or Mega Stone X and Mega Stone Y to account for Zard and Mewtwo) that just mega evolves whatever species legally can. But there wasn't really a reason back then to believe it was a gimmick. Up until now everything they added to the battle system was robust and interesting enough to stick around, and we'd have been better off if they continued to design with that philosophy instead of churning out one shot mechanics imo.
 
I can absolutely get on board with '[Pokemon] should've gotten a regular evolution instead of a Mega-evolution and it sucks that the gimmick might've locked out that possibility forever' but when the sentiment becomes '[Pokemon]'s Mega should've just been its regular evolution' I get a little confused. Imo virtually none of the Megas work as regular evolutions without a pretty thorough redesign, both in terms of appearance and battle capability.
Once again at risk of looking like I'm partially back-pedalling on my original stance, but I totally agree with you! All the stuff I put in the "should've been a cross-gen evo" tier would ideally use the base concepts of the Mega and modify/expand upon them to make them more of a proper evolution. More cross-gen-y and less mega-y, if you get what I'm saying. For instance, my ideal Lopunny evolution would still be a Normal/Fighting Scrappy abuser but with a less minmaxy but overall bulkier statline that makes it dive into the previous form's utility options more. Again though, didn't wanna bog down the somewhat comedic flow of my original post with this disclaimer, so you can have it now.
 
Dear lords, that’s the most negative rant about Mega Evolution I’ve ever seen in Smogon Forums!

That said, I agree how much of net loss Mega Evolution caused in the long run; it doesn’t help that GF intended it to be one-timer either, making the concept feels more and more insincere, and I’ve seen too little fangames implementing them without significantly rebalancing them, either.
I know Samtendo09 is famously more critical about fangames than the average Internet person, but man, I agree with this individual. "Everyone is Here" is a bit less meaningful if the lesser critters of the kitchen sink are as unviable as ever.
When the official Megas are implemented, you can bet your butt they won't receive any change except one or two Abilities and typings. M-Beedrill is still as frail as ever, for example.
Basically, if the base form doesn't get a stat buff, neither does the Mega, which makes sense I guess, but this causes some Megas to be favored over others.
audino-mega.gif
Case in point, Mega Audino, one of the more controversial Megas thanks to a combination of "overshadowed by other Megas" and "why didn't it get a proper evolution?" It is notoriously weak-hitting without Calm Mind (especially by Mega standards) with an Ability that's useless in Singles, where walls are more performant than in Doubles. It's little surprise it's one of the worst competitive Megas, hanging in NU with two Ice-type wallbreakers as the only competition for the Mega slot. It could have been better. Healer is a fitting Ability flavor-wise, but most can agree it's just not good.

In Radical Red, it got one buff, namely the Mega getting the Regenerator Ability. While it's a great buff for a defensive Pokémon, it still suffers from mediocre offenses: still slow, still can't hit that hard.

Then there's Inclement Emerald, which changes Audino's and Mega Audino's stats. I didn't play this game so I can't tell you how good it is, but the Mega gained 40 points in Special Attack as well as Fairy Aura, so it's more offensively potent, but the game also has competition for offensive Fairy-type Megas such as Altaria Gardevoir, Mawile, and even Milotic. Audino has its uniques strengths, but I'm not sure if that's enough.

And this is the issue with balancing Mega Evolution: Are the stats good enough? Is the transformation worth giving up an item slot? Should I pick someone else with this option? You might think more choices is better, but in practice, less performant options are less likely to be picked, so diversity isn't that much of an upside.

Which is why XY NU and SM NU are great metagames: in the former, Audino is the only Mega option; in the latter, Audino only competes with two others, and it plays very differently from either.
 
In-game meta is different from Competitive meta. In-game Mega Audino with Regenerator is certainly better, especially in Nuzlockes, but most people (not me) value offensive power more in-game.
This changes in Competitive. Stall teams are way more popular than in-game and a wall with Regenerator, Wish, Knock Off, Heal Bell, high bulk and amazing typing would be very used if existing, since options for teammates are literally endless, allowing some very good synergies.

Won't enter into the rest of Mega topics, but Regenerator Mega Audino would have been one of the best Megas in existance.
 
I can absolutely get on board with '[Pokemon] should've gotten a regular evolution instead of a Mega-evolution and it sucks that the gimmick might've locked out that possibility forever' but when the sentiment becomes '[Pokemon]'s Mega should've just been its regular evolution' I get a little confused. Imo virtually none of the Megas work as regular evolutions without a pretty thorough redesign, both in terms of appearance and battle capability.
This tbh. But even though crossgen evos are superior, Megas would have worked perfectly fine if they hadn’t dumped them after 2 gens. But what’s strange is they continue to heavily display megas in spinoffs, anime, merch… are they keeping them in the series in general for them to make a triumphant return in gen 10? I hope so, because retconning, say, Sableye-Mega to a normal evo is an extremely huge canon change that feels very unadvised.
 
I don't think megas necessarily prohibit Pokemon like Banette and Audino from getting regular evolutions in the future. If Game Freak ever wants to do that, they can just... do that. And if they ever decide to bring megas back, Mega Banette and Mega Audino will just retroactively be in the same boat as Gmax Pikachu and Gmax Meowth. Or Catastropika and Extreme Evoboost. Or Light Ball and Lucky Punch. Pokemon getting special stuff that their evolutions can't access is nothing new. It'd be weird and pattern-breaking, but if it gets in the way, fuck it.
 
Won't enter into the rest of Mega topics, but Regenerator Mega Audino would have been one of the best Megas in existance.
Eh, in lower tiers, maybe. But if just comparing to other megas... You're still giving up the item slot AND mega slot for it. No item slot means no Leftovers which is still a somewhat decent deal, and you're also using your mega slot on a defensive mega instead of a offensive powerhouse.
Not that defensive megas weren't a thing in OU, but Mega Venusaur, Sableye, Scizor, Slowbro etc also offered "something else" than just "i sit and take hits". And ofc, there's still the issue that Normal/Fairy isn't exactly as great as it sounds on paper as type, other than for switching into dragon types.

I doubt having Regenerator as mega would have changed much as viability for Mega Audino, other than making it stronger in lower tiers or at least an alternative worth considering to other megas. But at the top levels... there's still the same issue as always of using your mega slot on a passive wall instead of a high utility or high power one.
 
Anyone else still think its insane that Mega Garchomp had reduced speed of all things? Or is it just me?
From a gameplay perspective, I think everyone agree it's bizarre since Garchomp's speed was one of its most famous attributes. In terms of the design, the change of its appendages from Fins to more blades/scythes does make sense that it would be slower, as on top of being bulkier, it's less aerodynamic.
 
But at the top levels... there's still the same issue as always of using your mega slot on a passive wall instead of a high utility or high power one.

I don't think this is inherently an issue honestly, I think the problem is more that there are no defensive Megas except for Sableye and Audino. Mega Sableye saw some pretty significant success (although I guess you could argue it falls into the category of "high utility" with Magic Bounce, Wisp, Knock, etc.), and Mega Audino's shortcomings go beyond just it taking up your Mega slot.

I think if there were more actually viable defensive Megas, there's not really any inherent reason why they wouldn't see some usage on stall and other more defensive team archetypes, but for whatever reason GameFreak decided to give almost every Mega a heavily offensive bias. Even some that, on paper, might seem defensive, such as Slowbro, are usually used offensively, with Mega Slowbro seeming almost designed to be the ideal Calm Mind sweeper.
 
but for whatever reason GameFreak decided to give almost every Mega a heavily offensive bias
Tbh it's not exactly hard to guess why.

Remember that the main competitive modes, BSS and VGC, are high tempo metas which (for separate reasons) heavily punish stall oriented team compositions.
If you want your "super mechanic" to be used, it's way WAY more likely to be used if it's offensive oriented than if it's defensive. Similarly in gen 7 and 8, Z-moves and Dynamax were hardly ever used for defensive purposes, their main usage was always to either get a kills with higher power attacks, or in best case to help a potential sweeper maintain its status by being tankier and live hits it had no business living otherwise.
 
I don't think megas necessarily prohibit Pokemon like Banette and Audino from getting regular evolutions in the future. If Game Freak ever wants to do that, they can just... do that. And if they ever decide to bring megas back, Mega Banette and Mega Audino will just retroactively be in the same boat as Gmax Pikachu and Gmax Meowth. Or Catastropika and Extreme Evoboost. Or Light Ball and Lucky Punch. Pokemon getting special stuff that their evolutions can't access is nothing new. It'd be weird and pattern-breaking, but if it gets in the way, fuck it.
The catch is that Mega Evolution is meant to surpass standard evolution in terms of power boost… so there is key of not making a new evolution of a Pokémon too much resemblance of their Mega Evolution playstyle-wise and go for a more distinct direction from the Mega form design-wise.

I admit I do have the idea of giving new evolution for some Pokémon that got a Mega Evolution (so long they aren’t already stage 3 of course) to compensate not having access to it until postgame or not at all, but I do have to be careful not making the new evos just “their Mega Evolution but more natural / as normal evo”, I have to think Mega Evolution as special alternative forms akin to GMax as you pointed out, with a side flavor of ”special, stronger but limiting” breaching evolution line.
 
Another wrinkle in the Mega Evolution discussion I sort of alluded to yesterday but didn't go in-depth on is how little they contribute from a worldbuilding/"immediacy" (don't know a better word) standpoint. This is honestly a big reason why I have soured on the mechanic so hard. Mega Evolutions are in a very unique position in that they are among the only designs in the series that explicitly cannot exist in the wild. For all of Gen 6, they didn't even have their own Pokedex entries. This presents a major problem for their memorability, more than I think a lot of people realize. In their current state, Megas never get a chance to feel like a true part of the Pokemon world and its ecosystems. You'd have never see them occupying buildings and running around the world in newer titles, even if they hadn't been outright removed. An individual Mega Evolution has no special cultural or gameplay significance like Wyrdeer for instance. You can't tell a story about an obnoxious quest to find one in the wild, nor about shiny-hunting one. You pick up its base form, you find a rock somewhere and that's that.

It didn't have to be this way, of course. Perhaps in another reality we had Mega Raid Battles in XY that generated tons of fun anecdotes about people getting wrecked by 5 Star Mega Mawile or whatever. Or maybe Game Freak showed stronger commitment to the idea, steadily ironing out its flaws and further enhancing its strong points over the course of multiple titles. Once again, however, these are nothing but hypotheticals. They could theoretically still happen, but the prospects right now seem murky at best.
 
Mega Evolutions are in a very unique position in that they are among the only designs in the series that explicitly cannot exist in the wild. For all of Gen 6, they didn't even have their own Pokedex entries. This presents a major problem for their memorability, more than I think a lot of people realize. In their current state, Megas never get a chance to feel like a true part of the Pokemon world and its ecosystems. You'd have never see them occupying buildings and running around the world in newer titles, even if they hadn't been outright removed. An individual Mega Evolution has no special cultural or gameplay significance like Wyrdeer for instance. You can't tell a story about an obnoxious quest to find one in the wild, nor about shiny-hunting one. You pick up its base form, you find a rock somewhere and that's that.
You know, between the artificial conditions and Generation VII's dark Pokédex entries, Mega Evolution has a bit of a "Dark Evolution from Digimon" vibe.
So it's strange that in-universe, a strong bond between the Pokémon and its Trainer is required. :smogduck:
Maybe in another timeline, XY would be about Team Flare toying with nature to create Mega Evolution and you stopping them with Xerneas or Yveltal (or even Zygarde, it's the Order Pokémon after all).
 
You know, between the artificial conditions and Generation VII's dark Pokédex entries, Mega Evolution has a bit of a "Dark Evolution from Digimon" vibe.
So it's strange that in-universe, a strong bond between the Pokémon and its Trainer is required. :smogduck:
Maybe in another timeline, XY would be about Team Flare toying with nature to create Mega Evolution and you stopping them with Xerneas or Yveltal (or even Zygarde, it's the Order Pokémon after all).
This is the part where I reference that one "aliens were behind the plot of beta X/Y" rumor and reference that mega stones where pieces of AZ's ship, with some mega evolutions resembling Deoxys, with ORAS picking up the pieces by having Rayquaza mega evolve from eating meteors.
 
I mean Mega Evolution is the result of manmade wars in Kalos more than a thousand year ago, or at the very least a result of manmade stones by collecting powerful energy from landed meteors, in addition of the manmade Ultimate Weapon, fueled by Eternal Floette, that wiped out many population.

Nature have nothing to do with which Pokémon can Mega Evolve; chances that, the various Mega Stone just happened to be compatible with compatible species, even manmade Pokémon like we’ve seen with Mega Mewtwo X and Mega Mewtwo Y. Or it could be that Mega Stones are also manmade by ancient civilizations some hundred years after the events of the Ultimate Weapon Armageddon… and the Mega Stones for Mewtwo are made by modern day Kanto scientists in hope to make it even stronger.

Whatever it is, the phenomenon isn’t natural, and even gives unpredictable side-effects that, sadly, isn’t into play in-game. It also explains why Sun and Moon’s Pokédex have horror tales about several Mega Evolution. That, or Rotom is jealous of not having one and is demonizing them whenever possible.
 
Wasn't it explicitly stated somewhere in X/Y that Mega Stones were the result of stones being irradiated with fallout from the Ultimate Weapon? Maybe I missed something but I don't recall anything about landed meteors, I assume the bit about them falling to earth was simply because the explosion from the Weapon being fired launched them into the atmosphere the way a real-world high-yield explosion or impact event will launch ejecta into the atmosphere.

We already know radiation in the Pokemon universe is basically just a magic force that causes evolution (and probably not cancer, otherwise my OR/AS character running around with dozens of Mega Stones in his backpack at any given time is dead as fuck), so it seems like as good a nebulous, hand-wavey explanation as any other.
 
Wasn't it explicitly stated somewhere in X/Y that Mega Stones were the result of stones being irradiated with fallout from the Ultimate Weapon? Maybe I missed something but I don't recall anything about landed meteors, I assume the bit about them falling to earth was simply because the explosion from the Weapon being fired launched them into the atmosphere the way a real-world high-yield explosion or impact event will launch ejecta into the atmosphere.

We already know radiation in the Pokemon universe is basically just a magic force that causes evolution (and probably not cancer, otherwise my OR/AS character running around with dozens of Mega Stones in his backpack at any given time is dead as fuck), so it seems like as good a nebulous, hand-wavey explanation as any other.
The bit about meteors was added in ORAS.
 
I would be down for a Legends: Zygarde someday that takes place in ancient Kalos that expands on the lore of Mega Evolution even more than Gen 6 did.

There's definitely a lot of potential to expand on Mega Evolution's lore in Kalos in particular in the future, and with the Legends sub series being a thing now within the mainline games, especially with the premise of said style of games being that they take place in the regions we know except in the past, there's tons of potential for Mega Evolution lore to be expanded on in an ancient Kalos-situated game, especially in terms of its relation to the legendary trio of Kalos, aka Xerneas, Yveltal, and Zygarde. From a gameplay standpoint a Legends: Zygarde also opens up new potential to expand on the use of Mega Evolution as a mechanic in a new and different way from how it was implemented in the 3DS games themselves, while also perhaps adding more Mega Evolutions in the future, perhaps to more mons that actually would benefit from them too.

Mega Evolution is still my favorite of the super mechanics thus far, and while I can understand why some people here have grievances with how the concept was executed, I still personally love Mega Evolution because of how it made so many different mons more fun and interesting to use in its own way, and I honestly miss them a lot even now. Not a single super mechanic since has ever been as cool or fun to me as Mega Evolution (Z-Moves are a close second but not *as* fun to me as Megas, but Dynamax on the other hand is lame and boring while also being stupidly overpowered and mindless to use. I'm not sure how I will feel about Terastal but it's looking a bit shaky there).

From a lore standpoint there's definitely a chance to expand on Mega Evolution more, and with how successful PLA was, it's clear that they will want to make more Legends styled games in the future. A Legends game situated in ancient Kalos, such as a hypothetical Legends: Zygarde, would be a perfect opportunity to bring back Mega Evolution and to expand on its lore even further than what we saw in XY and ORAS. Especially since Kalos from a worldbuilding standpoint has a lot of untapped potential for more lore expansion (partially because it didn't get a Pokemon Z), and a Legends: Zygarde would be a magnificent opportunity to expand on Kalos lore and the Mega Evolution phenomenon. It's also a great opportunity to re-examine them from a gameplay standpoint in terms of how they are used, and perhaps they could re-work the mechanic to make it even better than it was in Gen 6 and 7.

Anyway that's my input on Mega Evolution from a lore standpoint and a little from a gameplay standpoint. There's still untapped potential on that front there, and imo I would love a Legends game in ancient Kalos to expand on that lore aspect more. Perhaps also reinvent Mega Evolution as a mechanic while also bringing in new ones in a different way for a PL Zygarde, Mega Evolution feels like the best mechanic that is worth revisiting in that regard and there's a lot they could do with it in the future.
 
The catch is that Mega Evolution is meant to surpass standard evolution in terms of power boost… so there is key of not making a new evolution of a Pokémon too much resemblance of their Mega Evolution playstyle-wise and go for a more distinct direction from the Mega form design-wise.

I admit I do have the idea of giving new evolution for some Pokémon that got a Mega Evolution (so long they aren’t already stage 3 of course) to compensate not having access to it until postgame or not at all, but I do have to be careful not making the new evos just “their Mega Evolution but more natural / as normal evo”, I have to think Mega Evolution as special alternative forms akin to GMax as you pointed out, with a side flavor of ”special, stronger but limiting” breaching evolution line.
Megas in gameplay are already designed to either change the Pokemon's gameplay completely or to buff their current one's function (this assuming the Pokemon even had a playstyle instead of a meandering gimmick build), so theoretically an evolution can simply take the opposite route akin to Branched Evolutions.

Meanwhile, I feel like the point of Megas existence in design on Pokemon that can evolve is as easy to handwave away as any other in Anime or typical fantasy settings as far as worldbuilding goes. To step away from Digimon, another Transformation heavy series is Dragon Ball Z, in which oftentimes the characters have variants on their different forms that differ in efficiency, whether due to how easy they are to use, their stamina burn, or the power they can allow. Most applicable there is the Cell Saga, where characters kept finding variations on the Super Saiyan form (Vegeta and Trunks basically overclock it to bulk up, while Goku tries to acclimate to the form and reduce the power drop) before actually unlocking the next stage from it. Megas are already a phenomenon that doesn't occur the same way as natural evolution, so nothing says they strictly have to be stronger OR weaker than the other. There aren't many other issues with adding evolutions that specifically stem from the Megas specifically.
 
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