Oh God, not another Wobbuffet discussion!

CardsOfTheHeart

Yes, yes, it's yet ANOTHER Wobbuffet discussion to determine once and for all if it is Uber, but starting tomorrow Colin is going to unban Wobbuffet on Shoddy, thus giving us an opportunity to test it for the first time in a while. (I'm pretty sure it was tested before, if I'm not mistaken.) I'm making this thread to compile the opinions and Shoddy experiences of the Smogon community about using Wobbuffet and facing him.

I'm sure everyone here has heard of Wobbuffet, so I'm not going into any details about how godly of an ability Shadow Tag is or how Encore and CounterCoat can help take out just about any sweeper. Here is my bottom line on Wobbuffet: his Trapping and killing ability rivals that of Dugtrio, but Duggy actually tends to get more kills than Wobbuffet from what I've been hearing, and Wobby (how original) is rendered useless by more Pokemon than Duggy. That is, Wobby can revenge-kill fewer Pokemon than Duggy. Here's a partial list of what Wobby CAN'T kill:

Spiritomb (immune to Counter and Mirror Coat)
Tyranitar that's not CB or DD (immune to Mirror Coat)
physical Dusknoir (immune to Counter)
special Houndoom (immune to Mirror Coat)
Gyarados or, quite frankly, ANYTHING faster than it with Taunt (not difficult to accomplish)
just about ANYTHING with U-turn
any PHazer... I think

...and I'm sure I'm leaving some things out.

In fact, the Wobbuffet analysis says it best about my feelings for this thing:

... Wobbuffet is not one of those Pokémon every team should be prepared for. Most respectable trainers will avoid using this Pokémon, even in ubers.

Thoughts, anyone?

(Note to mods: if the unbanning of Wobby on Shoddy isn't enough to warrant this discussion yet AGAIN, please lock and delete this thread so Stark Mountain isn't plagued by it.)


EDIT: Okay, some of my thoughts on Wobbuffet have turned out to be slightly unfounded, but my opinion still stands.
 
shoddy are just way too ahead of themselves, it may be not as powerful as it was, but it is still fucking broken. I don't think I'll even play shoddy at all if they unban wob.
 
I think he's perfectly fine for OU, and I'm gonna make a team with him right away. The best thing I think about is a trapping ability and encore, so I'll probably pair it with a Charizard (belly drum), Lucario (SD can easily sweep) or Dragonite (Out speeds a lot after a dd, meaning a clean worry free sweep). All three have some good resist.
 
I believe that quote has to do more with honor than anything.

I don't see the point in unbanning it, it's broken, it's hard to kill, and to be honest, who actually wants it unbanned?
 
Brawlex said:
I think he's perfectly fine for OU, and I'm gonna make a team with him right away. The best thing I think about is a trapping ability and encore, so I'll probably pair it with a Charizard (belly drum), Lucario (SD can easily sweep) or Dragonite (Out speeds a lot after a dd, meaning a clean worry free sweep). All three have some good resist.
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Too bad that's why it is broken. You need the "oh, so specific counters" for it.

I don't see the point in unbanning it, it's broken, it's hard to kill, and to be honest, who actually wants it unbanned?
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Idiots running shoddy, that's who.
 
No. I think he would be too broken. I know some pokemon resist counter and mirror coat, but His ability shadow tag makes it so you can't switch out.
 
As soon as I saw this I was like 'fuck not again' because I've been spending the last few days theorymoning DT off and on and I can't take any more.

Unbanned Wobb sounds cool, wish I could participate. All I can tell you now is that when I did battle with my Wobby team, complete with Wish support and many setups, he didn't fare so well. Then again that team was testing a lot of things (burn orb hera) all at once and I never got to use it much.
 
Clear said:
shoddy are just way too ahead of themselves, it may be not as powerful as it was, but it is still fucking broken. I don't think I'll even play shoddy at all if they unban wob.
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Why are you complaining? It's a test period. If Wobbuffet is found to be broken, it will be banned again. Tell me what you lose by a testing period.
 
his Trapping and killing ability rivals that of Dugtrio, but Duggy actually tends to get more kills than Wobbuffet from what I've been hearing
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Dugtrio revenge kills, wobbuffet can set up sweeps for tons of things through encore and a trapping ability which is a completely different function that dugtrio. He can revenge kill too with mirror coat and counter, but that isn't necessarily what he is best at. Im only new to this generation and smogon pretty recently, but from what I remember searching old posts the first tournament run in D/P here on smogon pretty much showed why wobbuffet should remain banned with its capabilities of setting up sweeps
 
CardsOfTheHeart said:
Spiritomb (immune to Counter and Mirror Coat)
Tyranitar that's not CB or DD (immune to Mirror Coat)
physical Dusknoir (immune to Counter)
special Houndoom (immune to Mirror Coat)
Gyarados or, quite frankly, ANYTHING faster than it with Taunt (not difficult to accomplish)
just about ANYTHING with U-turn
any PHazer... I think

...and I'm sure I'm leaving some things out.
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If you're right about this it would be an amazing progress in shoddy battle; I'll wait till I see it with my own eyes though.

And Yes, you are. leaving out a few things. First of all, Wobbuffet cannot switch in to CBTar, so take that off your list: a single Crunch will do 93.47% - 109.98% to max def / max sp.def wobby. Same goes for DDTar of course if Wobba happens to switch in on a DD or a Crunch.

Secondly, moves like Worry Seed or Toxic will deal with it fairly well- in fact, Dugtrio with Stone Edge, EQ, Protect and Toxic completely destroys wobba.

Obviously, Wobbufet can also not switch into choiced pokemon like Heracross, Garchomp, Rhyperior or Metagross, which have the ability to 2KO it (or even OHKO in Hera's and Rhyps's cases).

Let's see how this pans out.
 
evolutia said:
Why are you complaining? It's a test period. If Wobbuffet is found to be broken, it will be banned again. Tell me what you lose by a testing period.
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fuck'em, they already ruined Choice Scarf Pokemon already by putting Deoxys-E in OU, I need no more of their bullshit.
 
Dugtrio with Stone Edge, EQ, Protect and Toxic completely destroys wobba.
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Seriously? Pull your head out of your ass, no one would run a dugtrio with a set like that JUST to beat a wobuffett. Resulting to gimmicks isn't worth posting
 
Wobbuffet is far too deadly. Encore is reason enough to ban it, once it comes in and encores you it's done it's job, basically free set-up for the team with wobby on it.
 
Colins just a little bit trigger happy when it comes to unbanning things IMO.
 
CardsOfTheHeart said:
Colin is going to unban Wobbuffet on Shoddy.
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This made my day, thank you. I'm going to finally return to Shoddy after that (not that I was absent for that much time, but still).

Here in Brazil we have some non-endorsed-by-Nintendo Pokémon championships, where things like Legendary Clause exist, lv90 680 Ubers are considered "Legends" and Wobbuffet, Latios and Latias are allowed. Kyogre is simply ridiculous, Mewtwo is used by a few people, no one even uses the other Ubers and Latias, while Latios and Wobbuffet see a lot of use. And they don't see THAT much overpowered (okay, Wobbuffet was, kinda).

But that was ADV, so I'm going to test Wobbuffet on Shoddy because I'm really interested to see how well does he fare with the new Specs, Garchomp, huge passive damage and etcetera.
 
This is not good. Wob is broken... he says "encore and I kill you with Counter/Mirror Coat, or if you stat up I'll bring in Smeargle to BellyPass to something unscathed." I remember a tournament warstory a while back, where someone made it to the championship using Wobb to set up Smeargle BellyPass to Lucario and he 6-0ed everyone. Needless to say a lot of that will be used.
 
CardsOfTheHeart said:
Spiritomb (immune to Counter and Mirror Coat)
Tyranitar that's not CB or DD (immune to Mirror Coat)
physical Dusknoir (immune to Counter)
special Houndoom (immune to Mirror Coat)
Gyarados or, quite frankly, ANYTHING faster than it with Taunt (not difficult to accomplish)
just about ANYTHING with U-turn
any PHazer... I think
Click to expand...
Wobbofet can't hurt any of these guys but revenge killing is not the only reason wobbufet is banned. Can you switch any of thes guys into wobbufet? No because his trait and thus wobbufet has no real counter since you can't switch anything into him which is one reason why he is uber.
 
Clear said:
fuck'em, they already ruined Choice Scarf Pokemon already by putting Deoxys-E in OU, I need no more of their bullshit.
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I thought Deoxys-E was still being tested? Or is it already confirmed to be OU?

Regardless I don't see why people are getting so bent out of shape over a "test" It's not like Colin said: Wobbuffet is now OU no matter what. If Wobbuffet is proven to be broken, it will stay in OU indefinitely.
 
Grr, I really do agree evolutia. You people who are complaining really need to stop. We can only go so far with theorymon, and we eventually need to test these things.

You all knew we were going to have to do this sooner or later. Deoxys-S didn't do a damn thing, and I almost never see it. Gosh, if Wobbuffet's not all that fun, people just won't friggin use it for goodness sakes.

The mods and the shoddy staff and such have been talking about this for a long time, and they're obviously people who do what they say they're going to do, so just bare with it. If the guy's too powerful he'll be banned again, if he's not, he'll stay.

I swear, I'm seeing some really poor excuses of arguments in this thread. Oh wow, "it's hard to kill", so friggin what? Blissey is hard to kill too. Cresselia's hard to kill too. Who cares if Wobbuffet can trap things? It's going to still need a lot of support if it wants to not be dead weight after its first kill like Trapinch.

Oh wow it "reduces the ability of choice band/scarf/specs" wow, I was getting tired of those anyway. It kills choice users in the same way that other revenge killers do, taking a humongous hit in the process, in other words, not as good as Dugtrio in that department.

Also, I don't see why you people are badmouthing the shoddy staff. They friggin made the program that you all use to do your battles, and now you're calling them idiots? (Clear, I'm looking at you)

Honest to god, if anyone doesn't want to play the ladder because Wobbuffet's allowed, then for god's sakes, just don't play it. It simply just means that you can't handle change, and therefore, aren't as good of a player as you may make yourself out to be.

Sorry if any of that sounded rude, but whatever, some people are just not giving anything a chance and are too used to the tiers. People bitched about Deoxys-S, and it's been just fine. People are bitching about Wobbuffet, but who knows, maybe it'll be just fine too. That's kind the whole point of a test...
 
CardsOfTheHeart said:
That is, Wobby can revenge-kill fewer Pokemon than Duggy. Here's a partial list of what Wobby CAN'T kill:

Spiritomb (immune to Counter and Mirror Coat)
Tyranitar that's not CB or DD (immune to Mirror Coat)
physical Dusknoir (immune to Counter)
special Houndoom (immune to Mirror Coat)
Gyarados or, quite frankly, ANYTHING faster than it with Taunt (not difficult to accomplish)
just about ANYTHING with U-turn
any PHazer... I think
Click to expand...

All a smart Wobbuffet user has to do is NOT bring Wobbuffet into any of those things, that's the problem. I'll promptly test Wobbuffet, just like I did with Deoxys-E (actually, I'll probably make a team with both of them, just for annoyance). I personally think it will be banned again, but nobody can say for sure.
 
WobZard!

Wob @ Who cares
*Encore
*Counter
*Mirror Coat
*Safeguard

Charizard @ Salac
Adamant
252 Attack / 4 Defense / 252 Speed
*Fire Punch
*Earthquake
*Belly Drum
*Substitute

Yeah... this will be 1/3 of everyone's team. Thank you, Colin.
 
RaikouLover said:
WobZard!

Wob @ Who cares
*Encore
*Counter
*Mirror Coat
*Destiny Bond

Charizard @ Salac
Adamant
252 Attack / 4 Defense / 252 Speed
*Fire Punch
*Earthquake
*Belly Drum
*Substitute

Yeah... this will be 1/3 of everyone's team. Thank you, Colin.
Click to expand...

Ummmm, No. Stealth rock makes it so charizard cant belly drum/belly drum safely...
 
I have to disagree, Bologo. Taking away your opponents ability to switch is the single most game-changing event that has ever happened to this game. While dugtrio has a similar ability, his attack and defenses are pretty bad, so he is only useful for revenge killing. Wobuffet, on the other hand, has defenses to use encore, which is the problem. Essentially, you are either forced to kill yourself through counter/mirror coat, or be locked into a support move allowing your opponent to set up at his leisure.

By definition, Wobuffet has no counters, and so he does not belong in the standard metagame.
 
RaikouLover said:
WobZard!

Wob @ Who cares
*Encore
*Counter
*Mirror Coat
*Destiny Bond

Charizard @ Salac
Adamant
252 Attack / 4 Defense / 252 Speed
*Fire Punch
*Earthquake
*Belly Drum
*Substitute

Yeah... this will be 1/3 of everyone's team. Thank you, Colin.
Click to expand...

Stealth...

Rock?

And you talk as BellyZard was uncounterable once it has used Belly Drum.
 
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