yes because dynamax changed the typing of pokemon that had great potential with their movepools and defensive stats, but bad defensive typing. It is totally the same thing, totally XDAh the defensive dynamax argument.
yes because dynamax changed the typing of pokemon that had great potential with their movepools and defensive stats, but bad defensive typing. It is totally the same thing, totally XDAh the defensive dynamax argument.
It has decent enough bulk to stomach it's stab's and can burn it to reduce it's threat level further then Iron Hands may as well be set up fodderSince when skeledirge taking electric attacks? It's fire/ghost with unware. I don't see how it resists electric unless I am missing something here.
I suspect a lot of teams will default to leading with choice scarf palafin to get the ability off immediately, that sounds kinda bad to me though. Such an obvious lead means it’s also a very exploitable lead. I think palafin play like you’re describing will be rewarded (though definitely difficult).What's your take on Palafin?
I was really scared of the guy until I heard how it changes into its hero form, essentially making it so you have to bring a bad Mon with you and being forced to position it so you can safely switch to get the Hero form. Whilst that is hard enough, you also have to switch in at least twice for the hero form, which in a meta where hazard stacking will be probably big can be really sucky
So in item choices, you either have to
1) Take Boots, which leaves you with a good but still exploitable speed tier and a great but I unboosted attack stat
2) choice lock, which leads you to take hazard damage and forces you to switch even more in case a resist comes up
3) LO, which further chips down on Palafin and still leaves it exploitable to faster mons
4) take lefties or berries, which can give you needed longevity but still leaves your speed and attack unboosted
I think positioning will be extremely important with Palafin and that could make it strategically interesting. I do believe that it could be very likely overwhelming and get banned eventually, especially considering that it gets priority moves which somewhat debunk my above made points about item choice. I can still see a situation where it's somewhat inconsistent due to the form change condition
Honestly please forgive me if I'm being stupid but I'd honestly send it out Turn 1 and pivot it out into a much tankier mon so it can make strong hits later. 100 speed is especially important for these kinds of pivoting sets and I expect a lot of teams to run Palafin simply for it, so it'd be very exploitable, however avoiding these risks can get you some great rewards. Could be a pretty big high risk high reward mon.What's your take on Palafin?
I was really scared of the guy until I heard how it changes into its hero form, essentially making it so you have to bring a bad Mon with you and being forced to position it so you can safely switch to get the Hero form. Whilst that is hard enough, you also have to switch in at least twice for the hero form, which in a meta where hazard stacking will be probably big can be really sucky
So in item choices, you either have to
1) Take Boots, which leaves you with a good but still exploitable speed tier and a great but I unboosted attack stat
2) choice lock, which leads you to take hazard damage and forces you to switch even more in case a resist comes up
3) LO, which further chips down on Palafin and still leaves it exploitable to faster mons
4) take lefties or berries, which can give you needed longevity but still leaves your speed and attack unboosted
I think positioning will be extremely important with Palafin and that could make it strategically interesting. I do believe that it could be very likely overwhelming and get banned eventually, especially considering that it gets priority moves which somewhat debunk my above made points about item choice. I can still see a situation where it's somewhat inconsistent due to the form change condition
Yeah. At the very least, Palafin sits at a good Speed tier and can at least get in a Flip Turn hit before changing into its Hero form.Honestly please forgive me if I'm being stupid but I'd honestly send it out Turn 1 and pivot it out into a much tankier mon so it can make strong hits later. 100 speed is especially important for these kinds of pivoting sets and I expect a lot of teams to run Palafin simply for it, so it'd be very exploitable, however avoiding these risks can get you some great rewards. Could be a pretty big high risk high reward mon.
I think that if they get enough usage in let's say UU or RU that they'll be officially in these tiers by usage. If they don't get usage like this, they'll proly be just NFE. And even if they have usage to be considered in a proper tier, I think they can still be used in NFE asking as they aren't banned from thereNot sure if this was already asked, but since Stantler and Ursaring technically have an evolution method programmed in (even if it's a placeholder), should they be considered NFE for the purpose of tiering?
What's your take on Palafin?
I was really scared of the guy until I heard how it changes into its hero form, essentially making it so you have to bring a bad Mon with you and being forced to position it so you can safely switch to get the Hero form. Whilst that is hard enough, you also have to switch in at least twice for the hero form, which in a meta where hazard stacking will be probably big can be really sucky
So in item choices, you either have to
1) Take Boots, which leaves you with a good but still exploitable speed tier and a great but I unboosted attack stat
2) choice lock, which leads you to take hazard damage and forces you to switch even more in case a resist comes up
3) LO, which further chips down on Palafin and still leaves it exploitable to faster mons
4) take lefties or berries, which can give you needed longevity but still leaves your speed and attack unboosted
I think positioning will be extremely important with Palafin and that could make it strategically interesting. I do believe that it could be very likely overwhelming and get banned eventually, especially considering that it gets priority moves which somewhat debunk my above made points about item choice. I can still see a situation where it's somewhat inconsistent due to the form change condition
Chien-pao’s icicle crash is now clearly weaker than gen 8 Weavile’s triple axel hitting 3 times (effectively around 106 bp vs 120 bp) coming off the same attack stat. Of course it can not use knock off either. Now if Chien-pao had gen 8 Weavile’s moveset, it would be insane, but it doesn’t. As is, this shouldn’t be significantly more difficult to check than gen 8 Weavile in my opinion.
I think chien-pao will still be broken, even if it doesn't hit as hard, it's still a weavile thats faster, bulkier, and has recover, it sets up easier, it deals damage easier (comparable damage to weav's taxel with higher accuracy) has access to sacred sword for phenomenal coverage, it's the whole package, it might not be too much for a later meta, but for a limited meta I don't see this thing stayingSo it seems likely from what I’ve seen and others that the ruin abilities are a 3/4x multiplier to apply the debuff on the opponent’s respective stats (or something close to that). How broken do y’all think they are with these numbers in mind?
Chien-pao’s icicle crash is now clearly weaker than gen 8 Weavile’s triple axel hitting 3 times (effectively around 106 bp vs 120 bp) coming off the same attack stat. Of course it can not use knock off either. Now if Chien-pao had gen 8 Weavile’s moveset, it would be insane, but it doesn’t. As is, this shouldn’t be significantly more difficult to check than gen 8 Weavile in my opinion.
Chi-yu might still be broken though. It’s better than something like blacephalon in nearly every way and should still be able to muscle past most checks (not named ttar) with a nasty plot.
the ruin abilities being only a 25% debuff would certainly make their calcs a bit worse. i'm not sure if it makes chien-pao okay, like critaquil said it still has an incredible combo of bulk speed and power on top of good coverage with weavile's insane stab combo. chi-yu looks a lot fairer though, still strong but easier to check defensively, and ting-lu doesn't look totally unbreakable like it used to. still too soon to tell but i'm relieved that the debuff isn't by 1.5x or more lolSo it seems likely from what I’ve seen and others that the ruin abilities are a 3/4x multiplier to apply the debuff on the opponent’s respective stats (or something close to that). How broken do y’all think they are with these numbers in mind?
Chien-pao’s icicle crash is now clearly weaker than gen 8 Weavile’s triple axel hitting 3 times (effectively around 106 bp vs 120 bp) coming off the same attack stat. Of course it can not use knock off either. Now if Chien-pao had gen 8 Weavile’s moveset, it would be insane, but it doesn’t. As is, this shouldn’t be significantly more difficult to check than gen 8 Weavile in my opinion.
Chi-yu might still be broken though. It’s better than something like blacephalon in nearly every way and should still be able to muscle past most checks (not named ttar) with a nasty plot.
Pao will still hold the advantages as Weav's Knock was only at its strongest when the opposing Mon's item was still held while crunch retains its power as well as spamability vs passives due to its Def drop chances; it can do this with much less risk now as well with the absence of Scald and the cut in Toxic's distribution too.Some Chien-pao calcs compared to gen 8 Weavile. I calculated Chien-pao’s ability by reducing toxapex’s defense stat from 443 to 332. All of these are against max HP and max defense bold toxapex.
252+ Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 132-156 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Chien-pao Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 144-171 (47.3 - 56.2%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 81-99 (26.6 - 32.5%) -- approx. 4HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Chien-pao Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 77-91 (25.3 - 29.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
That increase in damage on the dark STAB side is definitely hard to wall, especially if crunch drops defense. Doesn’t have the utility of knock off though. Also have to take into account recover pp nerfs and stuff.
Ultimately I’m not sure whether something like this would qualify as broken, but it certainly sounds like an S tier mon in the metagame.
Worth noting that a few of those knock-off users (like Muk-A or Samurott-H) likely won’t be here day one.I haven't seen much talk about it, but I think boots will be the undisputed best item in the game, and even better than in gen 8.
With the nerf to recovery moves, regenerator will be even more valued than it already was. At the same time, every mon and its mom gets hazards now (e.g. garchomp, glowking, sneasler etc.). Removal is also scarce: many mons have lost defog, and rapid spin still has all the downsides it had in the previous gen (especially with how strong ghost is looking to be). Spin does have some good distribution, so I can see more teams looking for spinners to replace defoggers.
Knock off? No. Here's a list of (potentially) relevant mons that get knock off:
Pelipper
Salazzle
Alolan Muk
Great Tusk
Iron Treads
Iron Jugulis
Iron Valiant
Wo chien
H-Samurott
Cyclizar
Edit: oops Meowscarada
Yes. That's it (and I was generous with appointing relevance). Keeping hold of your item is looking to be significantly easier this time around, which is a big deal considering that regenerator pivoting will be crucial in trying to deal with all these ridiculous month 1 threats. Yes, the four paradox mons look like especially strong knock users, but the distribution is really important in this case with all the bulky support mons having lost it. I honestly think that Alolan Muk might be suprisingly strong this time around, I'll probably fool around with some AV sets.
Please let me know if you disagree. This was my first post ever, and I don't have much experience, but I'm hyped for gen 9.
Would heatran find any place in the meta once everything drops?
Also, do you think it can pair well with the roaring moon?