Metagame [SPOILERS] Scarlet & Violet OU Discussion [BAN LIST POST 626]

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Since everything gets hazards now and it seems the meta is going towards a hazardous meltdown, what are some of the best options for hazards removal?
- Corviknight is still one of the few Defoger left.
- Great Tusk and Iron Treads have Rapid spin.
- Avallug is still there.
- Glimmora's Mortal spin has been confirmed to remove hazards (mechanics research thread) and it set a bunch of hazards itself.
EDIT^2: Cyclizar has Rapid Spin, but I wouldn't call them the best option. Rapid spin is a good move for Toedscruel, but I have a hard time seeing the mon in OU.
 
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Since everything gets hazards now and it seems the meta is going towards a hazardous meltdown, what are some of the best options for hazards removal?
probably corviknight and the paradox donphans. i think ancient donphan would be a good option cause it seems like it could 1v1 most hazard setters on top of not removing the hazards you set on your opponent's field. cyclizar gets spin too but i'm not sure if it'd be easy to fit cause it gets a lot of utility moves, good option at least. corviknight should be as good of a defogger as always but seems a bit passive plus it could mess with your own hazard stacking lol. it seems like the spinners this gen are gonna be way, way better than the defoggers which are basically just corviknight and maybe giratina if that manages to come to ou.
 

Ema Skye

Work!
Since everything gets hazards now and it seems the meta is going towards a hazardous meltdown, what are some of the best options for hazards removal?
Corviknight is probably the best defogger. I would expect that it's probably the only one relevant to OU too. However, it is completely walled by Gholdengo, which blocks Defog due to its ability. Gholdengo is likely a staple on hazard stack because it invalidates all forms of removal.

I think instead we'll be relying on Rapid Spin for removal, and spinners able to deal with Gholdengo are preferred. Neither Paradox Donphan can switch into Gholdengo (specs Shadow Ball is nearly an OHKO), but they can at least prevent Gholdengo from switching in to spinblock. Toedscruel also can't switch into it, but can scare it with Earth Power, Knock Off or Spore.
 
Since everything gets hazards now and it seems the meta is going towards a hazardous meltdown, what are some of the best options for hazards removal?
Here’s your answer: :heavy-duty-boots:

More seriously, we should see HDB become incredibly useful, moreso than even Gen 8. Because hazard removal is harder now, pokemon that cannot afford to take hazard damage are all the more incentivized to carry boots. It becomes helpful on even more pokemon now, which is a good or a bad thing depending on how you interpret the meta. Obviously SR weak pokemon such as Zapdos, Torn-T, etc will carry boots, but we can realistically see Toxapex, Slowbro, etc HDB being the premier item option just because of metagame trends. Could he cool! Glimmora is also huge when it comes to hazard removal. The mon does not have great stats/typing but the utility is out of this world!
 
Since everything gets hazards now and it seems the meta is going towards a hazardous meltdown, what are some of the best options for hazards removal?
a defogger that I think's gone a bit under the radar is noivern, this mon has a great speed stat, decent offensive stats, and was one of few mons to keep defog, it also notably keeps roost, meaning it can be a psudo-koko that pivots and roosts off damage, here's a basic set

Noivern @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Flamethrower/Draco Meteor/Boomburst
- U-turn

this set's main job is to relive hazzard pressure while also maintaining offensive tempo with u-turn and strong attacking moves, you'd likely wan't to run flamethrower or fire blast to hit gholdengo, although you could also run a different move for more general damage, of course I think the main way people are gonna deal with hazzards is just to run boots on 4+ mons and just deal with knock as necessary, but I think teams dedicated to getting through hazzards will find a way, even with gholdengo.
 
Corviknight is probably the best defogger. I would expect that it's probably the only one relevant to OU too. However, it is completely walled by Gholdengo, which blocks Defog due to its ability. Gholdengo is likely a staple on hazard stack because it invalidates all forms of removal.

I think instead we'll be relying on Rapid Spin for removal, and spinners able to deal with Gholdengo are preferred. Neither Paradox Donphan can switch into Gholdengo (specs Shadow Ball is nearly an OHKO), but they can at least prevent Gholdengo from switching in to spinblock. Toedscruel also can't switch into it, but can scare it with Earth Power, Knock Off or Spore.

i would actually see better as a NP user
 
Here’s your answer: :heavy-duty-boots:

More seriously, we should see HDB become incredibly useful, moreso than even Gen 8. Because hazard removal is harder now, pokemon that cannot afford to take hazard damage are all the more incentivized to carry boots. It becomes helpful on even more pokemon now, which is a good or a bad thing depending on how you interpret the meta. Obviously SR weak pokemon such as Zapdos, Torn-T, etc will carry boots, but we can realistically see Toxapex, Slowbro, etc HDB being the premier item option just because of metagame trends. Could he cool! Glimmora is also huge when it comes to hazard removal. The mon does not have great stats/typing but the utility is out of this world!
What utility is glimmora offering? You said it removes hazards, how so? Kindly fill me in
 
What utility is glimmora offering? You said it removes hazards, how so? Kindly fill me in
Its signature move, Mortal spin, is a poison-type Rapid spin with guaranteed poisoning.
From the mechanic research thread:
Mortal Spin also spins away hazards beside the binding moves outlined in its description and targets both opponents in a double battle.
Edit: It also has SR and Toxic spikes. You can run Corrosion to spam Toxic or run its other ability Toxic debris for free toxic spikes.
 

Ema Skye

Work!
What utility is glimmora offering? You said it removes hazards, how so? Kindly fill me in
It has a Poison-type Rapid Spin that guarantees poison instead of boosting its speed. It also has Corrosion.

Mon is kinda cool in that it brings in Steels like no one's business, which it can Toxic (except Gholdengo). Unfortunately, Steels block its spin and it can't touch Corviknight.
 
Hey all I am trying to build a team around The roaring moon so I need a couple of suggestions of really good wallbreakers paired alongside with it. Here's the set I am planning on running- dd, outrage, crunch, iron head.
 
It has a Poison-type Rapid Spin that guarantees poison instead of boosting its speed. It also has Corrosion.

Mon is kinda cool in that it brings in Steels like no one's business, which it can Toxic (except Gholdengo). Unfortunately, Steels block its spin and it can't touch Corviknight.
I dunno about you, but "brings in steels like no one's business" sounds to me like a mon that pairs beautifully with magnezone, I think this will see some use, even if not enough to stay ou.
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One For All
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It has a Poison-type Rapid Spin that guarantees poison instead of boosting its speed. It also has Corrosion.

Mon is kinda cool in that it brings in Steels like no one's business, which it can Toxic (except Gholdengo). Unfortunately, Steels block its spin and it can't touch Corviknight.
Corrosion (which is imo the superior ability) makes it 1v1 Corviknight pretty well, and turns it into a solid Spikes setter for this reason, imo.

Something along the lines of

Glimmora @ Black Sludge / Air Balloon
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Ability: Corrosion
Timid Nature
- Spikes / Mortal Spin
- Toxic / Mortal Spin
- Sludge Bomb / Power Gem
- Earth Power

If not for presense of Gholdego, I'd argue Spikes + Toxic handles almost any Steel you could face, but such a Pokémon will surely be OU, so I suggest that Earth Power be mandatory to catch it on the switch. Outside of that it plays pretty simple,spam Toxic and Spikes early game, click it's Attacking moves where applicable. It is unknown currently how Corrosion interacts with Mortal Spin, but if it works with Corrosion it's a pretty powerful attack, but bear in mind it will still most likely fail to hit Steels, your main target of this status. I personally think Spikes stacking is better than hazard control here, as while no removal can really switch in thanks to Toxic beating all defoggers and non ground weak Spinblocking being very solid rn, u can't really force out any hazard setters and a few outright stop your removal while hitting you SE.
 
- Corviknight is still one of the few Defoger left.
- Great Tusk and Iron Treads have Rapid spin.
- Avallug is still there.
- Glimmora's Mortal spin has been confirmed to remove hazards (mechanics research thread) and it set a bunch of hazards itself.
EDIT^2: Cyclizar has Rapid Spin, but I wouldn't call them the best option. Rapid spin is a good move for Toedscruel, but I have a hard time seeing the mon in OU.
Court change too
I expect to see a lot of spinblockers in the meta
 

1LDK

Vengeance
is a Top Team Rater
Not really OU but how you guys theorycraft and build these teams before the game is out? is there a part in showdown without the resprites? by manually viewing stats and movepool and doing calcs manually?
 
yknow, pre home meta will be interesting in which removing hazards seems to be very hard, but so does removing hdb. Hazard stacking will probably be strong, but I wonder how the meta will adapt to lack of knock off for hbd users
 

1LDK

Vengeance
is a Top Team Rater
I think bulky and stall teams are gonna start using things likes Sticky Hold A-Muk and Gastrodown, HO will use things like explosion/steel beam + revival blessing, dark + ghost + electric/fire cores to block spins, spam knock off and kill birds
 
I'm guessing that both Paradox Donphan forms will see heavy use as roll compression with Spin + Knock that can easily dispatch Gholdengo:

252+ Atk Iron Treads Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 242-288 (64 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 324-384 (85.7 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

I'm still crying over the loss of Flygon. How good would a levitating, rocks-resisting defogger be in a hazard-heavy meta?

Edit:
Not really OU but how you guys theorycraft and build these teams before the game is out? is there a part in showdown without the resprites? by manually viewing stats and movepool and doing calcs manually?
I don't know about other folks, but I'm spending way too much time manually changing numbers in calc
 
I don't know about other folks, but I'm spending way too much time manually changing numbers in calc
v
Someone's got a calculator up fir Gen 9, supposedly: https://pokesports.org/pages/damage-calculator
Beware, it default to Lvl50 for cartridge online play so you may have to change the level each time (if that somehow matters). Still way less work.
Edit: doesn't seem to have the moves tho. Some new abilities are also missing too,, other are in but are non-fonctional (the ruins are among them), and some are wrong (it gives Sharpness a x1.2 multiplier, but it's actually x1.5).
 
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If he was in, he would probably lose Defog anyway, since it learned it by TM. Same goes for Roost, so Chomp fully outclasses it... except for DD, but 100 Attack is too low.
Sad but true. They probably also would have refused to give it Spikes or Stealth Rock via TM after giving them out like candy this gen, just to add to the injury :psycry:
 
Is there an automatic team builder for Gen 9 without using Pokemon Showdown? I really wanna mess around and make my own team so I can import it to PokePaste. :)
 
What's everyone's thoughts on Iron Moth?

140 Sp.A, 110 Spe, and an ability that can give it a free specs makes it hit pretty fucking hard without the setup required by regular volcarona or the 4x weakness making boots a necessity. It keeps all of Volcarona's coverage except for giga drain (now energy ball) and loses quiver dance. It gains discharge, dazzling gleam (dragons), and flash cannon.

and because why the fuck not it gets toxic spikes too, but no toxic. :zonger:

+1 is assuming always boosted by quark drive
+1 252 SpA Iron Moth Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 174-206 (57.2 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Iron Moth Discharge vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 156-184 (51.3 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Iron Moth Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 316-372 (75.2 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

and if you go for the electric terrain route deciding to run a different item from energy booster;

+1 252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Moth Discharge vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex in Electric Terrain: 302-356 (99.3 - 117.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Even against chansey the chansey eventually loses with fiery dance boost:

+6 252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Moth Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 622-733 (88.4 - 104.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
(I calc'd it with choice specs to simulate a +7 calc.. quark drive + 6 fiery dance boost but you likely will get into 2hko range before chansey has enough softboils to out heal sludge wave spam. Especially with the PP nerf.)

1668551440765.png


Iron Moth @ Boost Energy / Life Orb / Heavy-duty Boots
Ability: Quark Drive
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave / Energy Ball
- Fiery Dance / Overheat
- Discharge / Psychic
- Morning Sun

Perhaps other uses develop after the hype of the "probs quick ban shit" concludes, but Iron Moth seems to be overlooked. With its speed tier, it can function as a specs Latios replacement with essentially a soul dew attached due to quark drive spamming Overheat instead of draco meteor.
 
What's everyone's thoughts on Iron Moth?

140 Sp.A, 110 Spe, and an ability that can give it a free specs makes it hit pretty fucking hard without the setup required by regular volcarona or the 4x weakness making boots a necessity. It keeps all of Volcarona's coverage except for giga drain (now energy ball) and loses quiver dance. It gains discharge, dazzling gleam (dragons), and flash cannon.

and because why the fuck not it gets toxic spikes too, but no toxic. :zonger:

+1 is assuming always boosted by quark drive
+1 252 SpA Iron Moth Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 174-206 (57.2 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Iron Moth Discharge vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 156-184 (51.3 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Iron Moth Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 316-372 (75.2 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

and if you go for the electric terrain route deciding to run a different item from energy booster;

+1 252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Moth Discharge vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex in Electric Terrain: 302-356 (99.3 - 117.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Even against chansey the chansey eventually loses with fiery dance boost:

+6 252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Moth Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 622-733 (88.4 - 104.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
(I calc'd it with choice specs to simulate a +7 calc.. quark drive + 6 fiery dance boost but you likely will get into 2hko range before chansey has enough softboils to out heal sludge wave spam. Especially with the PP nerf.)

View attachment 465851

Iron Moth @ Boost Energy / Life Orb / Heavy-duty Boots
Ability: Quark Drive
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave / Energy Ball
- Fiery Dance / Overheat
- Discharge / Psychic
- Morning Sun

Perhaps other uses develop after the hype of the "probs quick ban shit" concludes, but Iron Moth seems to be overlooked. With its speed tier, it can function as a specs Latios replacement with essentially a soul dew attached due to quark drive spamming Overheat instead of draco meteor.
Calling booster energy a “free specs” is a stretch. It’s a free specs until you switch out again, so you better be winning the game right then and there if you are using it.
 
This is my attempt to create a team around paradox salamence, (note: I added heatran because once it is released I will be using it surely).
The Roaring Moon @ Boosting Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage - Crunch - Iron Head - Dragon Dance

Flatter Mane @ Life Orb
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk -
Moonblast - Shadow Ball - Calm Mind - Substitute

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 124 SpD / 132 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk -
Magma Storm - Earth Power - Stealth Rock - Taunt

The Great Tusk @ Assault Vest
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature -
Close Combat - Earthquake - Knock Off - Rapid Spin

Corviknight @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature -
Iron Head - Roost - Defog - U-turn

Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
-Transform

Any suggestions would be appreciated!
 
Having fun trying to optimize Cyclizar. Not 100% sure whether Choice Scarf is the optimal item, but here we go:

Cyclizar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 236 HP / 20 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty / Timid / Naive Nature
Tera: Dark
- Shed Tail
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin / U-turn
- Draco Meteor

Scared witless of Dragapult deciding to try to snipe the poor Sub recipient? Suspect Pult will think it outspeeds Cyclizar and stay in? Absolutely smash that Pult apart (preferably on Turn 1) and never worry about that Dragon Darts-using Infiltrator ruining your plans again:

20 SpA Cyclizar Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 318-374 (100.3 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Bonus points for also OHKOing opposing Cyclizar with that attack!

You can try investing Attack EVs to hit certain 2HKO thresholds on Ghosts with Knock Off, but max. Attack Jolly Cyclizar fails to OHKO Zoroark-Hisui, for crying out loud.
 
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