(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

Huh, is that confirmed anywhere? Never read that before.

Anyhow either way it still makes sense that resurrection would change a Pokemon, whether design or power wise, or both.
Despite never being obtainable, Floette-eternal had a full set of stats and movepool for a while. These included a BST of 551 (compared to regular Floette's 371) and a signature move with high power and recoil.
 
Surprised you haven't heard about it till now, but there's strong evidence supporting a theory that the Paradox Pokemon aren't actually Pokemon from the past or future. They're Pokemon the "Disc" Pokemon (not sure if saying anything more than that is a spoiler, at least in this context?) described in the Scarlet/Violet Book created from the imagination of people (for what reason hopefully the DLC will explain).
This is always the defense, and it's missing the point. You're Watsonian, the problem is Doylist. Yes, these aren't the actual creations. No one cares. They gave us better designs in the book. Whatever the in-universe explanation is, doesn't matter. The idea of combining a legendary trio is fundamentally cool to a lot of people, and we were teased with that and had it taken away, to be replaced with the blandest future paradox possible and a Suicune who shares nothing but a color scheme with the original. The problem isn't that the Suicune design doesn't make sense(although it's a stretch to say the least), the problem is people dislike it and GF had access to a better option they ignored.
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

On to new Horizons!
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This is always the defense, and it's missing the point. You're Watsonian, the problem is Doylist. Yes, these aren't the actual creations. No one cares. They gave us better designs in the book. Whatever the in-universe explanation is, doesn't matter. The idea of combining a legendary trio is fundamentally cool to a lot of people, and we were teased with that and had it taken away, to be replaced with the blandest future paradox possible and a Suicune who shares nothing but a color scheme with the original. The problem isn't that the Suicune design doesn't make sense(although it's a stretch to say the least), the problem is people dislike it and GF had access to a better option they ignored.
Bro what are you on about...

Talk about projecting your own feelings on a matter onto everyone else by using "we" instead of "I", no offense buddy but this comes off as fundamentally misreading the conversation that was going on and also projecting how you personally feel about a matter as something people collectively feel about it.

Don't act like your feelings on a matter are everyone else's. For the record, I've seen plenty of people who do like Walking Wake and love its design. Iron Leaves has less fans but there are still some people out there who like it anyway.

You don't have to like the concept of Paradox Pokemon or what they did with them but don't act like how you feel is what the collective consciousness feels about it.

And I don't know what prompted you to say this in this conversation. This whole thing was just a conversation about the concept of Paradoxes and people here have varying opinions on the matter, some people have a lot of questions about it from an in-universe standpoint, we bring up the in-universe talk about Paradox Pokemon and their concept because that's important to understanding what the deal with them is to begin with. One person expressed disappointment with Walking Wake but also expressed a fundamental misunderstanding of what a Paradox Pokemon is, and some people here had to elaborate on that in response because while it's valid to dislike a design or a concept, it is also important to at least try to understand what the deal behind Paradoxes is.

No one was talking about actually wanting a hybrid design or anything and being disappointed that it wasn't the case. All of this stuff you said in this rant is not only insane self-projection but was also totally irrelevant to all of the conversations we had over the last page. I have no idea how you came into this conversation and expressed your dislike of Walking Wake and Iron Leaves in a way that not only is unreasonable projection but also had absolutely nothing to do with the actual topic and center of the previous conversations here.

I don't mean to come off as hostile, I'm trying to express this in the nicest way possible, but I legit have no idea what you are on about here and this entire rant was not in any way relevant to the ongoing discussion topic here.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
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Huh, is that confirmed anywhere? Never read that before.

Anyhow either way it still makes sense that resurrection would change a Pokemon, whether design or power wise, or both.
Well, we know before its resurrection it had the Eternal Flower because it was shown wielding it during the war in AZ's flashback.

It was in a GameInformer interview with Masuda where he revealed that Floette was a gift from his late mother.

Though, reading what it says, I stand corrected on one aspect. According to the interview, AZ's Floette was specifically taken because it was unique powerful. So, in addition to already having the Eternal Flower, it sounded like AZ's Floette also had it's increased stats (and maybe the Light of Ruin move as well, I mean in the flashback we see it launching a powerful ray during the war). So, in the end, it's possible the only additional thing being resurrected by the Ultimate Weapon did was give AZ's Floette eternal life like AZ (you know, on top of also being brought back to life, that's kind of also important).

maybe not in the games, but THERE'S NO OFFICIAL MERCH FOR MOST MONS i mean yeah it'd be annoying to design a shirt/jacket/etc for all 1010 mons but i don't care. do it. I WANT MY FREAKING CHERRIM SHIRT :bat:
Cherrim Shirt: Here ya go. Sadly no jacket option, but thy do have face mask and bandana!

And for general merch, well the plans for Sitting Cuties looks to be having a plush for each Pokemon, eventually. Right now in the US we're only up to Sinnoh with Japan having just released Unova. They have Cherrim, in both its Overcast and Sunshine forms!

This is always the defense, and it's missing the point. You're Watsonian, the problem is Doylist. Yes, these aren't the actual creations. No one cares. They gave us better designs in the book. Whatever the in-universe explanation is, doesn't matter. The idea of combining a legendary trio is fundamentally cool to a lot of people, and we were teased with that and had it taken away, to be replaced with the blandest future paradox possible and a Suicune who shares nothing but a color scheme with the original. The problem isn't that the Suicune design doesn't make sense(although it's a stretch to say the least), the problem is people dislike it and GF had access to a better option they ignored.
BTW, for anyone curious what they're referring to by Watsonian & Doylist.

And I agree. I would have personally have much preferred the fusion designs. Do you really think I wanted ANOTHER boring Robot version of a Pokemon? The most interesting Future Paradox Pokemon was Iron Valiant because it was a combination of (Mega) Gardevoir & (Mega) Gallade. YES! More of that please! I can imagine what a robot version of the Pokemon would look like, GF, give me something to actually look in awe at.

Source


Source


Source
Source

(Personally I think they could be colored better but you get the jist)


But, that's obviously not what GF wanted. There's your Doylist response. They teased us with the idea only so they could then subvert it, and all we can do is speculate why aside from a "surprise" factor. The idea I presented to you was my best in-world explanation, maybe what GF was thinking and hinting at: they have made rules for themselves and Walking Wake and Iron Leaves is the result of following those rules while also giving us the "Imagined Fused Trios".
 
I like the Justice trio hybrid more than Iron Leaves, but I vastly prefer Walking Wake over the Beast trio hybrid (which is funny, because I preferred the Beast hybrid over the Justice hybrid when all we had to go on were the sketches)
 
Yeah I don’t get your reaction to Suicune at all, we know nothing about the beasts prior to their resurrection, in fact it makes quite a lot of sense (to me at least) that Ho-oh was unable to revive them in their original forms but was only able to revive part of their essence into a new form. For example, though obviously on a completely different scale, AZ’s Floette was probably just one of the normal flower patterns, was it not the resurrection via the Ultimate Weapon what caused its unique form?
Did Floette turn into a dinosaur or a dog? I mean past version of Suicune looks nowhere near as elegant as it used to be or resemble the animal it used to be. Not that I think it used to be a dinosaur before Ho-oh revived it.
My examples with Mew and Mewtwo were to showcase the randomness as it seems the paradox designs were made without considering the image of the Pokemon they were before.
 

Coronis

Impressively round
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Did Floette turn into a dinosaur or a dog? I mean past version of Suicune looks nowhere near as elegant as it used to be or resemble the animal it used to be. Not that I think it used to be a dinosaur before Ho-oh revived it.
My examples with Mew and Mewtwo were to showcase the randomness as it seems the paradox designs were made without considering the image of the Pokemon they were before.
No, but obviously Ho-oh and the Ultimate Weapon are completely different kettles of fish. No it doesn’t look as elegant, is that such a surprise? Even irl, more ancient species look to us humans as far less elegant and less refined than their modern counterparts. Obviously these Paradoxes are intended to be older than ~150 years (iirc thats about how long its been since the Burnt Tower) so it wouldn’t necessarily have retained that form up until then (if it had though, its conceivable, at least to me, that Ho-oh would take part of its Water essence and reshape it). Or it could have already naturally evolved from that more dangerous looking form thru to the Suicune we know today by then.

For me, personally, I like how much Walking Wake does diverge, I’d really prefer for them to get more creative with the Paradox designs (particularly the future ones)
 
Did Floette turn into a dinosaur or a dog? I mean past version of Suicune looks nowhere near as elegant as it used to be or resemble the animal it used to be. Not that I think it used to be a dinosaur before Ho-oh revived it.
My examples with Mew and Mewtwo were to showcase the randomness as it seems the paradox designs were made without considering the image of the Pokemon they were before.
I think at the same time this is evaluating Walking Wake under the same lens as the other paradoxes to make the Mew/Mewtwo comparison, leaving out one major factor: WW and Iron Leaves existing at all is dubious canonically, on top of the Paradoxes' ancestry with the "normal" Pokemon already technically being speculative within the universe.

For all we know, Walking Wake is some abomination popping out of the raid dens with no actual connection to Suicune, if it's even a creature that existed in the first place per other theories about Terapagos and Arven himself pointing out holes in the Time Travel theory (i.e. these mons were seen 200 years before the Professor's research and the Time Machine was built). The Mew and Mewtwo in your comparison wouldn't even have to be proven to exist at that point because diegetically, they wouldn't even be confirmed as natural beings that exist (and then gets into the other questions of what makes Mew the "default" look when it has DNA from Hundreds of Pokemon it bears no Physical resemblance or traits of).
 
So Marnie dropping Morpeko as her ace for Grimmsnarl is really dumb, but what makes it even dumber is that it was so easily avoided. They didn't need to make a Gmax Morpeko just for her. They didn't even need to make her one of the only characters to vanilla Dynamax her ace (though that would have also worked). Just have her follow after her brother and not Dynamax anything.
 
So Marnie dropping Morpeko as her ace for Grimmsnarl is really dumb, but what makes it even dumber is that it was so easily avoided. They didn't need to make a Gmax Morpeko just for her. They didn't even need to make her one of the only characters to vanilla Dynamax her ace (though that would have also worked). Just have her follow after her brother and not Dynamax anything.
Or just don't make Morpeko her ace in the first place. Besides hating that thing personally I also knew there was no way to make that thing remotely capable of being a challenging battle at late game (as is the case with every Pika Clone besides the recent Pawmot, who had to have a proper 3 stage evolution to make this work). Have her Morpeko on the team and depicting it as a companion Pokemon sure, but don't pretend this is her main battler in any long term. We have at least minor precedent for characters being accompanied by Pokemon that either do not battle for them or aren't their ace in actual competition, like Zinnia's Whismur Aster or N's Zorua and Darmanitan (which B2W2 confirm are distinct Pokemon from his Zoroark and obviously distinct from the Darumaka he uses in the 3rd battle).
 
Grimmsnarl being Marnie's true ace was foreshadowed in two ways. One is that she's meant to contrast with Bede, who has Hatterene as his ace, which is Grimmsnarl's counterpart, and two is that her hairstyle is based off of Grimmsnarl's ears and bangs.
View attachment 497863View attachment 497864
I'll be honest, the visual similarities between Marnie hair and Grimmsnarl seem tenuous at best. Especially since Grimmsnarl has nothing that resembles Marnie's most distinctive hair feature, that being the half-shaved bangs.
 
Icicle Spear and Pin Missile being removed as a TM / TR this gen. I'm starting to come around on Loaded Dice as an item. Pokemon like Heracross aren't good users of it, but for mons like Ungaboonguss that have to rely on the middling base power of Seed Bomb as their Grass STAB, Loaded Dice can be quite handy since even if only 4 hits connect it will still be functioning as a slightly better Miracle Seed. Breloom espicially is a great user of the item since it turns its Technician Bullet Seeds into guaranteed nukes. However, for the most part, the item is quite niche for most Pokemon since they either have STABs that are 100 BP+ or don't get multi-hit moves. Part of the reason for that is that Pin Missile and Icicle Spear were cut as TMs, which cuts off a lot of potential users of the item. Weavile, for example, could have been an OK user of Loaded Dice + Icicle Spear, but now can't run that combo. Technician Kricketune could have posed a threat in the lower tiers with Loaded Dice Pin Missile (assuming it got the move in the first place) but will instead continue being a joke.

Similarly, I don't like that most of the trapping moves like Sand Tomb were removed from the TM / TR list either. They were fairly niche last gen and would probably still be niche this gen, but they have an interesting interaction with Tera where their Base Power auto increases to 60, which I think is a cool mechanic and could have been explored more if these moves were TMs.
 
Grimmsnarl being Marnie's true ace was foreshadowed in two ways. One is that she's meant to contrast with Bede, who has Hatterene as his ace, which is Grimmsnarl's counterpart, and two is that her hairstyle is based off of Grimmsnarl's ears and bangs.
Speaking of Bede, its annoys me that G-Rapidash and Hatterene as another Fairy/Psychic are just to accommodate Bede's twist from being Psychic trainer into Fairy Trainer. Tell me what Galarian Ponyta typing again without looking up.
 
Egg shiny hunting is a long, miserable experience entirely of my own making and I have no idea how people did this before the shiny charm, much less the masuda method, and even less understanding of the people who insist on doing full odds.
Did people ever shiny hunt without RNG abuse? I don't even see how that's possible.
 
Speaking of Bede, its annoys me that G-Rapidash and Hatterene as another Fairy/Psychic are just to accommodate Bede's twist from being Psychic trainer into Fairy Trainer. Tell me what Galarian Ponyta typing again without looking up.
His team structure is just so annoying. And it wouldn't take that much to change things, just don't make him quite such a mono-type trainer. Toss an Eevee on there early on and have Bede complain about how long it's taking to evolve into an Espeon*, have 1 Psychic/Fairy mon on his team the entire game, maybe include 1 not-actually-psychic mon(not necessary to make this work but it's helpful) and shift the rest of his team when he switches types. There's no reason his final team should have 3 Psychic/Fairy types.

So initial fight: Psychic, Eevee, Psychic/Fairy
Final fight before swap: Psychic, (ghost or whatever), Eevee, Psychic/Fairy
Tournament fight: Mawile, (ghost or whatever), Fairy, Sylveon, Psychic/Fairy

Suddenly there's continuity across the fights since he only swaps 1 mon, he's still clearly a type specialist, but there's no type overlap beyond the minimum. What we got was just sad.

*Because he's a jerk
 
His team structure is just so annoying. And it wouldn't take that much to change things, just don't make him quite such a mono-type trainer. Toss an Eevee on there early on and have Bede complain about how long it's taking to evolve into an Espeon*, have 1 Psychic/Fairy mon on his team the entire game, maybe include 1 not-actually-psychic mon(not necessary to make this work but it's helpful) and shift the rest of his team when he switches types. There's no reason his final team should have 3 Psychic/Fairy types.

So initial fight: Psychic, Eevee, Psychic/Fairy
Final fight before swap: Psychic, (ghost or whatever), Eevee, Psychic/Fairy
Tournament fight: Mawile, (ghost or whatever), Fairy, Sylveon, Psychic/Fairy

Suddenly there's continuity across the fights since he only swaps 1 mon, he's still clearly a type specialist, but there's no type overlap beyond the minimum. What we got was just sad.

*Because he's a jerk
To add insult to injury, I only realized Hatterene only gained Fairy typing on her final stage
1678439617169.png

Its like the dev tampered G-Ponyta and Hattenna typing and thinking "teehee, the player will never see the twist that they're fairy-type" instead of Psychic/Fairy from the very start.

Your hypothetical "He cannot evolve Eevee to Espeon" is pretty cool actually to integrate his personality into gameplay mechanic.
 

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