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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
Corollary take: All remake OSTs are worse than the original. To varying degrees, granted, but none of them can recapture the essence of the original soundfonts for me.
I think Game Freak flat out isn't interested in doing by-the-numbers remakes anymore anyway.
The first three generations' games had enough of a justification to be remade (and in Kanto's case, remade twice) because the design principles and gameplay of original old school Pokemon (in other words, Gens 1, 2, and 3) compared to Pokemon as we know it now (ie Gen 4 onwards) were different enough, and there were enough modernizations between the original and the generation each remake took place in to justify them having such remakes. In that sense, FRLG, HGSS, and ORAS were justified as remakes.
But the thing with the likes of FRLG, HGSS, and ORAS is that largely speaking, on the surface level they were by-the-numbers remakes of Red and Green, Gold and Silver, and Ruby and Sapphire respectively, but in reality they (especially HGSS and ORAS) were much closer to modernized reimaginings of the original than just simple remakes. Now arguably FRLG was the least different from its original of the three, but it still brought a lot of quality of life gameplay improvements and had an entirely new set of areas for both a side campaign designed to be slotted into the main experience and a proper post-game quest, paving the way for future "modern" Pokemon like the soon to happen Diamond and Pearl (and Gen 4 as a whole). HGSS and ORAS took after the base games of the generations they took after and actually changed the experience of Johto and Hoenn in a way that suited what Pokemon was at the time apiece, with HGSS fleshing out the post game and all sorts of gameplay things to do while ORAS fleshed out Hoenn's story and characters and had a post-game story quest as well as some other stuff that Gen 6 introduced (like Mega Evolution).
Nowadays the Pokemon games from Gen 4 onwards have aged pretty remarkably well, even Gen 4 itself (aka Platinum and even DP itself) is very comfortable to play and very much playable and not too different from Pokemon games nowadays, as opposed to the first three generations which are extremely archaic (albeit still stand out from their remakes because they are that archaic). There's not enough of a difference gameplay wise to justify remakes of generations after 3, and I think Game Freak knows it.
The graphics and map design of modern console scale Pokemon games and old 2D Pokemon games is also too drastic and would require a larger scope of work than remakes of old like FRLG, HGSS, and ORAS while at the same time being forced to reconcile that with the faithfulness of a remake, and I don't think Game Freak considers it a worthwhile compromise to have to put in so much work to reimagine an old game to the absolute T at the expense of creative limitation due to having to abide by the original region design. Older remakes were relatively simple to reimagine the original map and region in the current engine, because Game Boy to DS for instance is not a drastic jump and DS engine graphics are still 2D, so taking a Game Boy based map and reimagining it in the DS engine is simple and still gives a lot of room for creative expansion of the original, hence why we got HGSS which looks quite good for a DS game. GBA to 3DS is a bit more of a jump because it's 2D (32-bit) to 3D, but while XY and its engine made for a 3D world and aesthetic the map design back then still confirmed to 2D map design principles so Hoenn was still a feasible region to recreate in that engine and build.
Taking something like Sinnoh or Unova though and reimagining it in a full on 3D console scale map on the scale of say, Paldea, for instance, is a significantly larger effort than before. It would require a grand overhaul of the original design and basically not look like the original game at all, and would require an extreme reconsidering and redesign of the original map. And hypothetically yes, they could do that level of work if need be, but at that point you're putting in so much work that you might as well make a totally new game altogether: the modernized Sinnoh in SwSh graphics, artstyle, and engine would be completely unrecognizable and different from the original DPP anyway, so might as well go all the way with it. In other words, the gap between modernity and faithfulness when it comes to remakes at this point is simply too wide and expensive to bridge and is not a compromise they would be willing to make at this point. There's too much of a compromise there now.
I bring up Sinnoh because the situation with BDSP and PLA and how they turned out (and were marketed) was already a clear sign of Game Freak wanting to move on from by-the-number remakes and moving to a new direction with old region revisits by doing totally new games set in old regions that provide a completely new experience set in that region. From FRLG to HGSS to ORAS they progressively tried to make the experience more and more different from the original and the latter two in particular focused more on story beats, especially ORAS with the Delta Episode paving way for PLA basically being a full-on new story for Sinnoh taking place in Sinnoh of old. Legends: Arceus was really functionally the next evolution after what they did with ORAS by being as the marketing team called it, a "Sinnoh Pre-Make", and it was clearly the FRLG, HGSS, and ORAS of Sinnoh, being in the Gen 8 engine, using Sword and Shield's graphical engine+artstyle, and PLA Hisui basically being Sinnoh redesigned in the SwSh engine and using the assets they developed during SwSh.
I think PLA in and of itself is more or less indicative of the direction old generation revisits will take moving forward. I'm not saying *every* old gen revisit will be a Legends game strictly, but I think by-the-number remakes like FRLG, HGSS, and ORAS are basically a thing of the past now and they want to move towards doing more original projects set in old regions when the time comes to visit those old regions again, like Unova, Kalos, and potentially another Johto revisit all being potential next ones down the line based on past precedent (yes, Johto, because we did revisit Kanto a second time a few years ago, so I wouldn't rule this one out). BDSP was basically faithful to an extreme and ended up as it did because it was an emergency crutch measure to "sponge" the social need for a remake that had existed at that point and to be a fallback in case their risk with PLA didn't turn out well (fortunately, it turned out to be very successful), but PLA was the real project of interest and I imagine it is more indicative of the kind of things they seem to want to do with old region revisits moving forward.
The first three generations' games had enough of a justification to be remade (and in Kanto's case, remade twice) because the design principles and gameplay of original old school Pokemon (in other words, Gens 1, 2, and 3) compared to Pokemon as we know it now (ie Gen 4 onwards) were different enough, and there were enough modernizations between the original and the generation each remake took place in to justify them having such remakes. In that sense, FRLG, HGSS, and ORAS were justified as remakes.
But the thing with the likes of FRLG, HGSS, and ORAS is that largely speaking, on the surface level they were by-the-numbers remakes of Red and Green, Gold and Silver, and Ruby and Sapphire respectively, but in reality they (especially HGSS and ORAS) were much closer to modernized reimaginings of the original than just simple remakes. Now arguably FRLG was the least different from its original of the three, but it still brought a lot of quality of life gameplay improvements and had an entirely new set of areas for both a side campaign designed to be slotted into the main experience and a proper post-game quest, paving the way for future "modern" Pokemon like the soon to happen Diamond and Pearl (and Gen 4 as a whole). HGSS and ORAS took after the base games of the generations they took after and actually changed the experience of Johto and Hoenn in a way that suited what Pokemon was at the time apiece, with HGSS fleshing out the post game and all sorts of gameplay things to do while ORAS fleshed out Hoenn's story and characters and had a post-game story quest as well as some other stuff that Gen 6 introduced (like Mega Evolution).
Nowadays the Pokemon games from Gen 4 onwards have aged pretty remarkably well, even Gen 4 itself (aka Platinum and even DP itself) is very comfortable to play and very much playable and not too different from Pokemon games nowadays, as opposed to the first three generations which are extremely archaic (albeit still stand out from their remakes because they are that archaic). There's not enough of a difference gameplay wise to justify remakes of generations after 3, and I think Game Freak knows it.
The graphics and map design of modern console scale Pokemon games and old 2D Pokemon games is also too drastic and would require a larger scope of work than remakes of old like FRLG, HGSS, and ORAS while at the same time being forced to reconcile that with the faithfulness of a remake, and I don't think Game Freak considers it a worthwhile compromise to have to put in so much work to reimagine an old game to the absolute T at the expense of creative limitation due to having to abide by the original region design. Older remakes were relatively simple to reimagine the original map and region in the current engine, because Game Boy to DS for instance is not a drastic jump and DS engine graphics are still 2D, so taking a Game Boy based map and reimagining it in the DS engine is simple and still gives a lot of room for creative expansion of the original, hence why we got HGSS which looks quite good for a DS game. GBA to 3DS is a bit more of a jump because it's 2D (32-bit) to 3D, but while XY and its engine made for a 3D world and aesthetic the map design back then still confirmed to 2D map design principles so Hoenn was still a feasible region to recreate in that engine and build.
Taking something like Sinnoh or Unova though and reimagining it in a full on 3D console scale map on the scale of say, Paldea, for instance, is a significantly larger effort than before. It would require a grand overhaul of the original design and basically not look like the original game at all, and would require an extreme reconsidering and redesign of the original map. And hypothetically yes, they could do that level of work if need be, but at that point you're putting in so much work that you might as well make a totally new game altogether: the modernized Sinnoh in SwSh graphics, artstyle, and engine would be completely unrecognizable and different from the original DPP anyway, so might as well go all the way with it. In other words, the gap between modernity and faithfulness when it comes to remakes at this point is simply too wide and expensive to bridge and is not a compromise they would be willing to make at this point. There's too much of a compromise there now.
I bring up Sinnoh because the situation with BDSP and PLA and how they turned out (and were marketed) was already a clear sign of Game Freak wanting to move on from by-the-number remakes and moving to a new direction with old region revisits by doing totally new games set in old regions that provide a completely new experience set in that region. From FRLG to HGSS to ORAS they progressively tried to make the experience more and more different from the original and the latter two in particular focused more on story beats, especially ORAS with the Delta Episode paving way for PLA basically being a full-on new story for Sinnoh taking place in Sinnoh of old. Legends: Arceus was really functionally the next evolution after what they did with ORAS by being as the marketing team called it, a "Sinnoh Pre-Make", and it was clearly the FRLG, HGSS, and ORAS of Sinnoh, being in the Gen 8 engine, using Sword and Shield's graphical engine+artstyle, and PLA Hisui basically being Sinnoh redesigned in the SwSh engine and using the assets they developed during SwSh.
I think PLA in and of itself is more or less indicative of the direction old generation revisits will take moving forward. I'm not saying *every* old gen revisit will be a Legends game strictly, but I think by-the-number remakes like FRLG, HGSS, and ORAS are basically a thing of the past now and they want to move towards doing more original projects set in old regions when the time comes to visit those old regions again, like Unova, Kalos, and potentially another Johto revisit all being potential next ones down the line based on past precedent (yes, Johto, because we did revisit Kanto a second time a few years ago, so I wouldn't rule this one out). BDSP was basically faithful to an extreme and ended up as it did because it was an emergency crutch measure to "sponge" the social need for a remake that had existed at that point and to be a fallback in case their risk with PLA didn't turn out well (fortunately, it turned out to be very successful), but PLA was the real project of interest and I imagine it is more indicative of the kind of things they seem to want to do with old region revisits moving forward.
Reminds me when most people were trying to figure out the Types of the Galar Starter's Final Stage. Most if not all the suggestions were dual-types. Meanwhile, as you said, I looked at their designs and could only see them being mono-types, which is something they've done in the past like with the Johto Starters (and almost the Unova Starters, heck Emboar may have been better received if it was just pure Fire).
G-Ponyta: I feel the issue with G-Ponyta is that it was caught between mechanics and story. Had G-Ponyta started as a Fairy and than gained the Psychic-type upon evolving into G-Rapidash I feel that would have worked fine. However, there was two things they wanted to do which made making G-Ponyta start pure Psychic make more sense... even though its clearly designed to be a Fairy-type from the start. They (1) wanted to reference unicorns horns are a mythical healer of poison (which wouldn't work so well if it started as pure Fairy as it's weak to Poison) and (2) goes along with Bede's story where he transitions from a Psychic-type trainer to Fairy-type.
Gyarados: I wonder if part of the reason people want it to be Dragon isn't just from the Carp jumping the Dragon Gate Legend but also so it wouldn't be part Flying-type. I forget whether it was confirmed or a rumor it was originally meant to be Water/Dragon but GF decided it would be too powerful so made it Water/Flying instead (though if true maybe would be why M-Gyarados is Water/Dark). Gyarados really doesn't get much from its Flying-type and would be better off without the double Electric weakness and Rock weakness. If they still don't want to make it Water/Dragon or a pure Water-type, I don't think Water/Dark was a bad choice.
M-Glalie: Honestly I think there was really nothing else they could do with Glalie that they hadn't done. Making it Dark (or Steel I see sometimes suggested) would just make it double weak to Fighting. MAYBE making it Ice/Fairy could have worked but would require a redesign, like bring back some of its Snorunt aesthetics and become a sort of snow spirit guide.
You're right, that settles it, when it comes to revisiting the Unova region the games will be Black 3 & White 3!
I mean, I'd argue that Mega Glalie stood out sufficiently... simply because there were so few Physical Ice-types at that point. Refrigerate Return/Double-Edge was about as strong or even stronger than Mamoswine/Weavile's Choice Banded Icicle Crashes without getting locked in. Despite sharing the physical Ice/Ground combo with Mamoswine, it can differentiate itself due to getting Spikes and Refrigerate Explosion. Is that enough to stand out from Weavile, Mamoswine, Alolan Sandslash, and Cloyster (Kyurem-B and Mega Abomasnow don't really count as physical Ice competition)? I'd say yes.
A secondary type wouldn't really change its game plan given that it wants to use Ice/Ground coverage anyways, so it basically only adds a little bit of defensive utility (unless that secondary type is Ground). Not unless that second type is something really off the wall and corresponding coverage moves are given, which is a bit difficult to justify thematically.
A secondary type wouldn't really change its game plan given that it wants to use Ice/Ground coverage anyways, so it basically only adds a little bit of defensive utility (unless that secondary type is Ground). Not unless that second type is something really off the wall and corresponding coverage moves are given, which is a bit difficult to justify thematically.
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I meant largely in the context of other Megas. I think you have to argue quite hard to justify why you'd give your Mega slot to Glalie specifically over other - better - Megas on a diverse team (in-game or competitively). On a Hail team I could see why it might be the best option.
But generally speaking, is it worth using instead of Mega Kangaskhan, or Mega Metagross, or Mega Mawile, or Mega Lopunny? I'd say probably not.
Not saying an additional type would necessarily change that (it's kind of getting into a different discussion) but the original point I was making was that when I saw that Mega Glalie stayed pure Ice, my initial reaction was "...oh." Yeah it's good the way it is, I'm not disputing that, but I'm making the case for why people might want or expect it not to remain a dual-type.
I personally don't want more Legends-type games at all. I think Legends was boring, a one and done game for me. Legends gutted so many hallmarks of the series it is practically unrecognizable (downplayed Trainer battles / no rival battles, no linear routes, little to no emphasis on making a balanced team outside the true final boss, obsessively focusing on catching em all when even from RBY on that was always a optional goal (outside of that weird Koga requirement in LGPE)), The counterparts really aren't that interesting - I'll take Scarlet and Violet's simple, but new storytelling over this any day of the week. I think Alola is like 50x better at what Legends was trying to do.
Alola has an actual narrative not shoved in at the very end
Alola has actual characters that don't feel needlessly edgy and cold, yeah most Pokemon games are smile town but it does a lot in making the world more friendly and enjoyable and reinforces escapism
Alola may force you to listen to its story, but it's an actual story, not vague platitudes that repeatedly say "you could get mauled and destroy our community!!!" and literally nothing else that isn't diet PMD (as ambivalent as I am to those games, they gave you time to bond with the minor NPCs, simple though they may be, so you're more impacted when the plot turned against you).
Pretty much the only thing I think Legends did okay to good with were the Noble battles
Alola has an actual narrative not shoved in at the very end
Alola has actual characters that don't feel needlessly edgy and cold, yeah most Pokemon games are smile town but it does a lot in making the world more friendly and enjoyable and reinforces escapism
Alola may force you to listen to its story, but it's an actual story, not vague platitudes that repeatedly say "you could get mauled and destroy our community!!!" and literally nothing else that isn't diet PMD (as ambivalent as I am to those games, they gave you time to bond with the minor NPCs, simple though they may be, so you're more impacted when the plot turned against you).
Pretty much the only thing I think Legends did okay to good with were the Noble battles
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I strongly agree up to this point - although at least LGPE Koga has an excuse in that catching is the main leveling up method. There, you catch because it's useful, not because the story suddenly wants to make Pokédex completion mandatory.
I personally don't really care about the plot, and I think the plot and the setting are never important in a game, but from the way the story is handled gameplay-wise... I could potentially take it as well, if it were not from the fact that, despite splitting the story into three paths, they are all still mandatory to reach the post-game.
If you could choose to do only one and unlock everything while completely ignoring the ones that you can't be bothered to care about (like the story in the Alola games, if I could have ignored Lillie altogether and just go Trial after Trial and Kahuna after Kahuna it would have been fine) then great, I'll happily take that approach. I just want to become the Champion, after all.
But by splitting but still making them all mandatory... it's like they are taking the worst of both worlds. IMO, doing the three stories should just be a requirement to reach the Epilogue instead of the post-game, and give a different kind of reward (a Shiny Charm, maybe?) because you cared.
tl;dr Make the story optional and make exploration optional. If the player never wants to go off-road, they cannot be punished from it.
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Sneaking in the most unpopular opinion of all right at the end haha. I enjoyed PLA but the Noble battles were mechanically awkward and extremely boring.
Blue loses his title in FRLG and comes back having replaced his Rhydon with a Tyranitar. Few things in the series are more badass.
I was in early adolescence at this point and can confirm all this 1000%. The first game I had ever personally owned was Sapphire though I had played multiple titles from Gens 1 and 2 through friends and also grew up with mons as a core part of my early childhood from merch to the anime to the TCG back when it wasn't just an asset class. Diamond and Pearl as much as I see them being written off today (and perhaps rightfully so, in some respects) are responsible for the popularity of the games and competitive scene as you know them today, full stop. Everyone had a copy of one or the other. Nintendo did not sell 18 million copies by accident.
Late to the party on this one but just started playing Sword and found this:
The level scaling in The Crown Tundra is completely wrong. I don’t have an issue with the Peony battle since the game similarly opens with an unwinnable/scripted battle with the box dog and it does play into his character of being a boisterous but powerful trainer, but IMO the Max Lair should have either given Pokémon at levels scaled to your badge count or just been locked behind the postgame. (I know it’s the speedrun strat, but Scarlet and Violet properly did this by locking the higher-star raids behind the postgame).
I have a Level 70 Suicune that I caught on my first trip just sitting in the box. I have two badges. In terms of story there is no way that I should ever be able to own this thing and have it obey me, but I could use it and just win no problem.
The level scaling in The Crown Tundra is completely wrong. I don’t have an issue with the Peony battle since the game similarly opens with an unwinnable/scripted battle with the box dog and it does play into his character of being a boisterous but powerful trainer, but IMO the Max Lair should have either given Pokémon at levels scaled to your badge count or just been locked behind the postgame. (I know it’s the speedrun strat, but Scarlet and Violet properly did this by locking the higher-star raids behind the postgame).
I have a Level 70 Suicune that I caught on my first trip just sitting in the box. I have two badges. In terms of story there is no way that I should ever be able to own this thing and have it obey me, but I could use it and just win no problem.
SV also ties obedience to Badges + Capture level even on your own Pokemon, presumably to avoid someone being able to Steamroll the game by being carried through a high level raid with a local friend or simply wandering out and capturing overpowered Pokemon in the Open World Structure.
This could also go in the "Small things you like" thread for me because besides being a more elegant solution than "the Pokemon's too strong to throw a Ball at while battling" or the above mentioned Dynamax Adventure Legendaries, it's also a nice story-wise solution to the disobedient Pokemon scenario. I always wondered why they didn't take that approach since even the anime handled it that way with things like Ash's Charizard or Dawn's Mamoswine.
I actually think this is the closest they can ever go to have a "level cap" without forcing an actual level cap.
I don't think a forced level cap would ever be good for the games either ways. I think the option to purposely overlevel if you are willing to extra grind is fine in general in RPGs (assuming you don't overlevel without even trying...), but having ways that prevent "cheating the system" like this one is quite fair.
Also I'm a big fan of the speedrun of SV anyway, eventually I need to get around to do a flamigo domination run myself...
For sure.
I had a Pokémon that I wanted but couldn’t catch because it was one level above what I had the badge for and it’s just clunky.
The game that always comes to mind for me (because this is one I've actually played) is The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim's DLC. You can go to the new areas at just Level 10 (Dawnguard) or straight out of the gate (Dragonborn, though the quest only starts after about a third of the main story) and there are some great rare spells/shouts/items to be had this way, but if you beeline right to it at the level you unlock it you're likely to get obliterated by high-level monsters unless you use exploits requiring knowledge of the game.
Heck, even Isle of Armor got the scaling pretty accurate. While you can just go straight to the island out of Wedgehurst (and in fact it's meant as an early-game area given the wild Pokemon levels there), Klara/Avery's team is roughly on par with Nessa in terms of levels (same goes for the tower trainers) and your Kubfu does need to like you before you can progress, so it feels a lot more natural without feeling like it's too easy or too impossible.
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Not to invalidate your opinion - I certainly have my criticisms towards Legends, and it's not hard to see why someone may dislike it - but I don't see the problems with these things in and of themselves. Legends isn't a standard main-series game (in the same way that a game that SWSH or SV is), and I think it makes sense that it doesn't play like one. The de-emphasis on battling is supported by the setting, and I think catching taking its place makes much more sense when you consider the focus on exploration and the atmosphere of mystery that the game is aiming to establish. In particular, the mention of 'linear routes' strikes me as odd when the series is moving away from this pretty much entirely given the shift to an open-world structure.
...Not that these things don't need work, of course. I think the new battle system they implemented is really bad and weirdly unintuitive - changes to the damage formula, the Strong/Agile system, and the complete absence of spread moves just feels bad and turns Trainer battles into a series of revenge kills, which isn't very engaging, even in the context of a strictly single-player experience. I think the complete casualness with which you catch Pokemon also ends up devaluing individual catches a lot - neither PLA or SV strike a good balance here in my eyes, as the latter feels too slow for an open-world structure, too. I don't know how you'd go about fixing this. I also think the noble battles are dogshit, despite liking the idea of boss battles outside the context of standard battles. But personally, I'd rather see GF try to build on these things and improve them rather than abandon them entirely, especially after the glowing reception these games got. I think Legends makes for a very good structure to explore a region with a fresh coat of paint, and can add a lot to the original games in hindsight.
Again, my assertion here isn't "You're wrong to dislike these changes", because that's very subjective. What works for one person won't work for another, and that's totally fine. It's that changing up and experimenting with series tradition strikes me as a good thing, especially outside of the more 'standard' games in the series. With the previous flaws I mentioned ironed out, I'd be really excited to see a future Legends game for Unova or other regions.
...Actually, there is one thing I think mainline should take away from Legends - the usage of zones instead of an entire open world. I think this leads to much tighter and more involved level design overall, and keeps things from blending together too much like I find Paldea tends to do in my eyes. idk if this is unpopular or not, just felt like putting it out there while we're on the topic.
Great points! This post was a pleasure to read. The open world structure does work with the air of mystery, I'll definitely give you that.
I don't think I thought Legends was an outright bad game. I just think I'm more of a Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness kind of person when it comes to spinoffs - the battle system stays the same with a linear progression. Probably just a preference thing!
If anyone reading this likes Legends, I hope you continue to enjoy it! Maybe I'll go back to that game someday. It's just very rare for me to beat a Pokemon game and not have a desire to keep playing. And I'm definitely a completionist too - I fully completed Crash Bandicoot 4: It's About Time, also known as "the game you fully complete just to say you did it, even if full completion is remarkably unfulfilling."
I think there's an inherent value to the core series of Pokemon branching out and doing more than just the classic mainline formula though: by doing more kinds of games than just the classic RBY styled traditional mainline game, they can more easily take advantage of Pokemon's inherently rapidfire mainline release schedule to have a wider variety of genres of games in the future, and as such it feels like not only is there something genuinely different the Pokemon mainline series can offer each year, making it feel less super repetitive, but that there can be different types of games that each appeal more to different target audiences and as such now there truly is something for everyone to enjoy each generation if they keep this up.
The cool thing about the previous generation with PLA in the picture is that not one of the mainline games were alike to each other in any way. You had Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee, a POGO-style game, then you had SwSh, a traditional classic mainline game (even if it was on the eh side overall as a game), its "enhanced edition" instead being DLC for the game itself, adding the bells and whistles you would usually get from a third version to the original game itself thus keeping SwSh relevant on the market, and then you had Legends: Arceus, a game set in ancient Sinnoh that is more Action RPG and aggressively single player and focuses more on ancient Sinnoh lore.
And all three co-existed with each other for the past year or so and each remained relevant in its own right as a unique experience that Pokemon could offer. PLA was popular amongst a lot of people because there are many people who liked the ARPG aspect of it and whatnot, but for those who didn't, SwSh was always there to exist as a mainline game, and now we have Scarlet and Violet which is more of a classic Pokemon mainline that is now the current "flagship" game of the current generation and the main competitive/PvP hub. I would like to note that over the last year despite PLA being the center of attention in marketing, SwSh continued to remain relevant because it was still the current competitive hub.
Because PLA was so different, despite SV releasing this year PLA still had a substantial number of sales this previous holiday season because it still stood out for its unique genre compared to classic mainlines like SwSh and SV, and remained relevant in the stores alongside SV despite SV being the big mainline release of this year. Classic games and Legends games in that regard don't fully invalidate the other's existence and can co-exist and appeal to different groups. People who have become tired of the classic genre can find value in Legends games, and whatnot, while Legends games can appeal to more hardcore gameplay people who want that.
So in that regard I wouldn't mind future Legends games continuing to exist, and in fact I would love for them to exist and to have them be made alongside traditional mainline titles. Don't fully get rid of the classic mainline games, they're a seller and still a tried-and-true success formula, but more deviant mainline titles that co-exist alongside them can be a great thing. I personally loved PLA, and would love to see another Legends game made this generation that can co-exist with Scarlet and Violet as a game for Gen 9. And in doing so improve upon things from Legends: Arceus.
I would even love for them to return to 2D Pokemon RPGs that go all in on being 2D Pokemon to bring back the classic 2D Pokemon charm, as an additional offshoot genre of mainline games in addition to Legends games and classic mainline games like SV. Have Scarlet and Violet serve as our flagship classic mainline Pokemon game for all of Gen 9, and then do some offshoot games. Legends games, 2D-Octopath-like games even, or Let's Go if they really want to. Pokemon can absolutely benefit from branching like this and making a variety of genres of games within a single generation. They can each appeal to a different group of people and all of them can co-exist alongside one another and stay relevant in the market for the whole generation until the next one comes.
But yeah just a bit of a rant: but I think I would actually love for more Legends games to be made so long as classic mainline ones continue to be made alongside them. Legends can exist as its own sub-series within the core series while traditional mainline games continue to exist, and I would also like to see them make even more sub-genres and experiment with genres of RPGs for mainline Pokemon than just the classic mainline.
Really I think the last generation was the beginning of Pokemon becoming a more varied series from here on out, and I think that's a nice approach to take instead of an infinite repetitive loop of the exact same thing over and over again every year.
The cool thing about the previous generation with PLA in the picture is that not one of the mainline games were alike to each other in any way. You had Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee, a POGO-style game, then you had SwSh, a traditional classic mainline game (even if it was on the eh side overall as a game), its "enhanced edition" instead being DLC for the game itself, adding the bells and whistles you would usually get from a third version to the original game itself thus keeping SwSh relevant on the market, and then you had Legends: Arceus, a game set in ancient Sinnoh that is more Action RPG and aggressively single player and focuses more on ancient Sinnoh lore.
And all three co-existed with each other for the past year or so and each remained relevant in its own right as a unique experience that Pokemon could offer. PLA was popular amongst a lot of people because there are many people who liked the ARPG aspect of it and whatnot, but for those who didn't, SwSh was always there to exist as a mainline game, and now we have Scarlet and Violet which is more of a classic Pokemon mainline that is now the current "flagship" game of the current generation and the main competitive/PvP hub. I would like to note that over the last year despite PLA being the center of attention in marketing, SwSh continued to remain relevant because it was still the current competitive hub.
Because PLA was so different, despite SV releasing this year PLA still had a substantial number of sales this previous holiday season because it still stood out for its unique genre compared to classic mainlines like SwSh and SV, and remained relevant in the stores alongside SV despite SV being the big mainline release of this year. Classic games and Legends games in that regard don't fully invalidate the other's existence and can co-exist and appeal to different groups. People who have become tired of the classic genre can find value in Legends games, and whatnot, while Legends games can appeal to more hardcore gameplay people who want that.
So in that regard I wouldn't mind future Legends games continuing to exist, and in fact I would love for them to exist and to have them be made alongside traditional mainline titles. Don't fully get rid of the classic mainline games, they're a seller and still a tried-and-true success formula, but more deviant mainline titles that co-exist alongside them can be a great thing. I personally loved PLA, and would love to see another Legends game made this generation that can co-exist with Scarlet and Violet as a game for Gen 9. And in doing so improve upon things from Legends: Arceus.
I would even love for them to return to 2D Pokemon RPGs that go all in on being 2D Pokemon to bring back the classic 2D Pokemon charm, as an additional offshoot genre of mainline games in addition to Legends games and classic mainline games like SV. Have Scarlet and Violet serve as our flagship classic mainline Pokemon game for all of Gen 9, and then do some offshoot games. Legends games, 2D-Octopath-like games even, or Let's Go if they really want to. Pokemon can absolutely benefit from branching like this and making a variety of genres of games within a single generation. They can each appeal to a different group of people and all of them can co-exist alongside one another and stay relevant in the market for the whole generation until the next one comes.
But yeah just a bit of a rant: but I think I would actually love for more Legends games to be made so long as classic mainline ones continue to be made alongside them. Legends can exist as its own sub-series within the core series while traditional mainline games continue to exist, and I would also like to see them make even more sub-genres and experiment with genres of RPGs for mainline Pokemon than just the classic mainline.
Really I think the last generation was the beginning of Pokemon becoming a more varied series from here on out, and I think that's a nice approach to take instead of an infinite repetitive loop of the exact same thing over and over again every year.
I'll agree once I can recognize that it has indeed branched instead of just taking a turn. If and when there's a recent ambitious game that focuses on the parts of the series I want to get out of a cartridge (as distinct from BDSP not changing any major aspects and thus accidentally keeping what brought me into the series), I'll cut Let's Go, Legends, and the open-world parts of SwSh and SV some slack. Unfortunately, I can't bring myself to do that right now.
The last non-remake "traditional" mainline games were XY, a decade ago. Sun/Moon and sequels completely changed the gym challenge, eliminated HMs, and went with a very different map style. Let's Go was a remake and also was Let's Go. Sword/Shield then even got rid of the Ride replacements to HMs and went with an open world section and pokes visible in the overworld, as well as completely changing the E4. And then SV did...all of that. I don't know what the next games will bring, but "Linear 8 gyms into the E4 with the standard battle system" doesn't seem in the cards.
Open world, exclusively overworld-visible pokemon, 3 storylines, E4 not being the start of the postgame...I really enjoyed it, but it was definitely about as far from a mainline game as it's possible to be without major mechanic changes.
AKA the general problems with Mega Pokemon, especially those of "weaker" or "niche" Pokemon who weren't given OP stat increase, Type change or new Ability. Not to mention all Mega Pokemon (except Rayquaza) need to give up their Item slot further holding back the lower tier Mega Pokemon.
Saying all this, I wonder if Mega Pokemon ever came back it should be redone. It was their first attempt at a Super Mechanic, I don't think anyone would blame them for a redo. Obviously don't toss out the designs, but I would take to heart what worked with Super Mechanics after Mega. Like one thing I would suggest without getting into hypotheticals: Allowing any Pokemon on your team capable of Mega Evolving to do so without giving up the Item slot. Give that flexibility which Dynamax and now Terastal have.
Well, how much is that the concept's fault and how much is it GF's? The failings of Legends story I don't think is because the concept was bad but more on GF's shoulder of just not knowing what story to tell. You would think with two former warring clans (a peace which is only a recent thing so tensions should still high between the two; and I mean that in a "your clan has killed members of my family" way and not the schoolyard squabbling the two leaders have with each other) who still have clashing beliefs would be enough to make a conflict out of. But no, for some reason at the end of the main game your boss goes crazy, blames you for all that's happening, most everyone turn on you for no reason, and you now have to figure out how to fix everything before they get themselves all killed (and possibly destroy the world). Like, if you didn't want to present the Galaxy Expedition Team as all good guys that's fine, there are ways to do that like misunderstanding the clans which only worsen their rivalry.
Also how much is that Legends just being the first game in its subseries so for fans expecting a typical Pokemon adventure would be taken aback to how it was setup? The game seemed to wanted to lean more on the catching side of the franchise than the battling, thus simplified the battling mechanics (which included no Abilities) while expanding on your catching capabilities. This is present in the Noble Battles where it's as much as you dodging around the Pokemon and finding moments to throw balms at it (and while you can battle the Noble, you can beat them without battling). And of course they could always improve the battling mechanics, add back in most Abilities, and have more Trainers to battle. They just wanted to do something very different, and now having done so, can take what they learn and improve the experience all around.
Now, I will agree not every gen needs a Legends game, BUT there are some which I wouldn't mind be interested in seeing. We can skip Gen I & II. I guess ORAS did add an interesting history with the Draconid people in III but I feel that just works as simple backstory so skip. Gen V I think could have an interesting Legends game as much about the old Unova kingdom and the two prince brothers is left up in the air; and I see plenty of room where they could potentially do some plot twists. Gen VI has the Kalos war but considering how that ends probably not something GF wants to follow-up on. Gen VII is an interesting case as they could expand the definition of what the "Legend" series is and have it focus on dimension jumping. Gen VIII is sort of like Gen III where there is past story but it's better as backstory, though it would clear up exactly WHAT happened in with the original Darkest Day. And finally Gen IX had a whole history class worth of potential Legends story.
Wish they got someone to make another Colosseum, or at least Colosseum-like. Sadly part of the charm of Colosseum was that you could do Pokemon battling in 3D (as in using 3d models not 3d effectt)!... which meant when Pokemon switched to 3d in Gen VI killed the appeal of those games. Well, in theory, there was much more to games like Colosseum and even Battle Revolution than just having 3d battles, but question is does GF and the Pokemon Company see that.
If only.
Would like to see that too, but there may be one thing holding that back: GameFreak. GF seem determined to make it so only THEY can make mainline Pokemon games, but they're not big enough to make more than one at a time.
I say it all depends on the story they want to tell. Granted, a lot of these stories do feel they're partially made seeing ways they can re-structure a Pokemon League, but that doesn't mean we won't ever see the traditional formula of Gen I-VI ever again (though I think things like challenging the E4 in any order and maybe now challenging the Gyms in any order may be standard unless the story decides it wants to be linear like back in the old days). Let's see:
Alola: Island Challenge instead of Pokemon League. Reason for this is because the game IS the telling of the creation of Alola's Pokemon League. Thus young trainers went on a rite of passage stemmed from ancient traditions for their journey.
Galar: A Professional Pokemon League. This is very much them playing with the Pokemon League concept, treating it as if it was a major sport like Soccer. Each Type had a Gym with them all battling each year to determine which 8 is placed in the Major League for participating trainers (all who need to get a sponsor) to travel around too. And with the idea the Major League are the "best of the best", also makes sense that instead of an Elite Four to just have a part of the Champion tournament be where those Gym Leaders (and the participant trainer who defeated all the other trainers that got all the Badges) battle one another in a knock-out tournament where one of them could be the one to challenge and defeat the Champion.
Paldea: An academic venture. This one is partially story as I don't think you need to be part of the Academy to challenge the Paldea League. But, since the player is, the story treats it as something connected to the major class assignment "Treasure Hunt". It's the closest to go back to the 8 Gyms, 4 Elite Four, but with the twist the Gyms can TECHNICALLY be battled in any order (they they still have set levels so there is an order you can generally follow) and there's TWO Champions. I feel that latter point is more emphasized and what makes the Paldea League different; Champion in Paldea is just a title with the one who acts as the final boss of the League being called the "Top Champion", a position that's more a job and they seem to have it until they quit. Development wise I also feel this is GF trying to think where they can go with the Pokemon League concept after Galar (kind of hard to make a follow-up Champion after Leon, the Champion of Champions).
So, what story would Gen X think of (keeping in mind that it's Gen X, or rather Gen 10, the main series games finally hitting two digits in the number of core series titles).
Sorry, meant 2026, which now I guess is perfectly reasonable if they for ONCE took some years off to polish the game.
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Why 2028 specifically?
Maybe he means 30 years since R/B release in English? Wouldn’t really make sense tbh surely they’d go with 2026 and the original Jap games, like how the 25th anniversary was 2021.
That's what I was thinking, but wasn't sure if I'd missed something.
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