Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]

[Athyestic]

We should make a Tornadus-T set tier list
I'll just post a wrong/random one and then you can fix it little by little

S
Boots NP+3 Attacks
Specs
AV

A
Bulky Double Dance (Agility + Nasty Plot)
Bulk Up Tera flying Sitrus Berry Acrobatics
Standard Boots Pivot (can have taunt)

Nominating Physical Double Dance to A alongside the current physical set, it’s effectively the same thing just with more lategame potential
Nominating Choice Band to B
Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tera Blast
- U-turn
- Crunch
- Hammer Arm
It’s bad but it’s funny, plus those U-Turns sting a lot more now.

 

[DaemonChop]

Nominating Physical Double Dance to A alongside the current physical set, it’s effectively the same thing just with more lategame potential
Nominating Choice Band to B
Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tera Blast
- U-turn
- Crunch
- Hammer Arm
It’s bad but it’s funny, plus those U-Turns sting a lot more now.

I didn't even know this shit learns Hammer Arm until now.

On Good non physical sets, is Bleakwind Storm or Hurricane preferred? They seem kinda like sidegrades to me

Edit: Thought about it more and I'm mad now, tornadus doesn't even HAVE arms!

 

[singaporygon]

Exploring the Terastillization Argument: Examining Both Sides

The concept of Terastillization has sparked a heated debate among Pokémon enthusiasts. While there are valid arguments on both sides, it is essential to critically evaluate the evidence and reasoning presented. This essay aims to provide an objective analysis of the Terastillization argument, acknowledging the points made by proponents while highlighting the need for further clarification and substantiation of their claims.

I. Pro-Terastillization Arguments:

1. Expanded Versatility: Supporters argue that Terastillization enhances the versatility of Pokémon by allowing them to change their typing. This flexibility potentially opens up new strategies and counterplay options within battles.
2. Increased Viability: Proponents contend that Terastillization can potentially improve the viability of certain Pokémon by granting them access to different types, expanding their move pool, and enabling them to handle specific threats more effectively.
3. Creative Team Building: The introduction of Terastillization could encourage more diverse team compositions and creative approaches to battles. This can lead to greater innovation and strategical depth within the Pokémon metagame.
4. Fostering Adaptability: Advocates suggest that Terastillization promotes adaptability and encourages players to think on their feet. It introduces an additional layer of unpredictability and decision-making during battles, making the gameplay experience more dynamic and exciting.

II. Counterarguments and Points of Concern:

1. Impact on Balance: Detractors argue that Terastillization could potentially disrupt the delicate balance within the metagame. The ability to switch typings may result in certain Pokémon becoming overly dominant or create unforeseen power imbalances that negatively impact the competitive environment.
2. Strategic Depth vs. Randomness: Some opponents question whether Terastillization truly adds strategic depth or merely introduces an element of randomness to battles. The ability to unpredictably change typings might diminish the importance of careful planning and prediction, potentially reducing the skill-based aspect of competitive play.
3. Competitive Integrity: Critics express concerns about the potential impact of Terastillization on the integrity of competitive Pokémon battles. Without well-defined rules and limitations, it becomes challenging to maintain a fair and balanced competitive environment where skill and strategy prevail over arbitrary factors.

Conclusion: The Terastillization argument presents compelling points from both sides. Proponents emphasize the expanded versatility, increased viability, and creative potential it offers to the metagame. However, critics raise valid concerns regarding the lack of clear mechanics, potential impact on balance, and the fine line between strategic depth and randomness.

To reach a consensus on Terastillization, further research, deliberation, and testing are necessary. The development of well-defined mechanics, implementation guidelines, and thorough analysis of its impact on the metagame's integrity are crucial steps forward.

Ultimately, a comprehensive understanding of Terastillization and its implications will require a collaborative effort from the Pokémon community, game developers, and competitive players to ensure that any potential changes enhance the strategic depth, balance, and competitive integrity of the Pokémon experience.

P.S we need to have a seperate discussion board I wanna disucss Garticuno in peace here lmfao

this is from chatgpt ain't it

 

[Avira]

this is from chatgpt ain't it

It does sound very much like a ChatGPT post. I'd say it was almost certainly generated from ChatGPT.

To be on topic, I believe Tera to be harmful to the competitiveness of the meta. I voted ban during the first suspect test and will vote to ban it again for the second test if I manage to get reqs, which I have struggled with doing in the past.

 

[Narmy]

Gamefreak really said "Fuck you, reverse USUM" and then took a bunch of fucking moves away from pokemon that liked them it's so sad

For something like knock off i get, its too strong (the base damage buff was unnecessary imo)
But i'll never understand the logic behind removing pursuit and hidden power

 

[Tio Chico]

First, I'd like to say that the council is not exaggerating the QB numbers. All QB's so far (and probably one more on Sunday) are Pokemon that shouldn't even have returned to OU, but we had our old toys on a new board and a stagnant metagame a few months ago, so why not?
I still expect a few more QB rounds and maybe another survey at the end of the month, but that's just my opinion.

Now considering a Terastal suspect/discussion is out of the question for the next 2 months, but will happen after this inevitably. It's not the best place to say this but I want to use this post to express my feelings;
I understand and agree on the supermajority for the council to act, this ensures efficiency and reduces misunderstandings that would need to be reviewed and time consuming. But for public polls the 60% requirement is very frustrating. Let's look at Terastal own vote, where a 59% majority was defeated. It is impossible not to have a feeling of lack of democracy here. Whether it's a Tera Preview or a ban, some action should be taken, so if someone more capable, with more voice and time has a similar feeling, I would call for some political review like we had a few days ago which was quick and well organised on the supermajority for the council. This could be discussed during World Cup, OLT or whatever. A simple majority of 50% + 1 vote for PUBLIC suspects is enough.
I still advocate a full ban, but starting with a Tera Preview is pretty acceptable, although partially de-featuring a mechanic to preserve part of it doesn't have good precedent (yes I'm looking at you Baton Pass).
We lost Regieleki and Volcarona doesn't look sustainable with Terastal. But this is not the time to go into details, I trust the council's agenda and especially Finchinator's work. It's also nice to see some other voices from the council slowly making their appearance, we appreciate your time and transparency, it's a metagame with unprecedented characteristics and hard work.

 

[MattC (Banned)]

Another day, another batch of matches where Bulky Tera Fairy Roaring Moon absolutely tears ish up:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1880399782 (sweeps Sun)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1880235016 (forces Zama C in, letting me force its tera and remove Dauntless shield with Iron Hands, bulk lets it use Glowking as recovery/setup fodder once Zama is gone)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1880527665-fh5j9216wg727z8ghtf6czb3mao5boypw (uses Volc as an entry point and sweeps)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1880546991-ap6n49wxctatv0t7qcs8s5l5k1vbrdppw (again, Volc is just an open invitation)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1880536817-oa9odjplgoydqap2mb56jk3vhgfd0hrpw (this game was over as soon as I knew Gholdengo was scarf)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1880540378 (I screwed up and forgot this was offensive Tusk, otherwise Moon probably sweeps, even while managing Salt Cure damage)

Let this be a mea culpa from me: I was pretty confident during the original suspect that Tera Blast was hardly blip on the radar of what makes Tera broken, but it's just getting dumber over time. This set shouldn't be possible, and I'm both happy that I've got a while longer to enjoy this demon and v excited for when the calendar opens up enough for us to suspect this mechanic again and get it out of here.

Sorry, but I just have to say these replays don't prove that Tera is broken. Alot of your opponents teams weren't that well prepared for common cores in the general meta, they didn't use one of the (small) handful of fat mons nor priority users that tend to check most moons decently, and some of the opps seemed to waste their tera instead of taking tera moon into account.

On the other hand, you played well for sure, and thanks for sharing this good Moon set.

How do you tell a bot you got the wrong notification? IM NOT CARBONLIFEFORM BRUH

 

[lolgod3]

For something like knock off i get, its too strong (the base damage buff was unnecessary imo)
But i'll never understand the logic behind removing pursuit and hidden power

giving everything any coverage is clearly imbalanced, and pursuit is too restricting for psychic types or smt idk

 

[Ctann]

When the meta was new:

“This Tera mechanic is kinda awesome, but it’s probably gonna break stuff like Kartana and other things that are less obvious, we saw it happen with Z crystals too, but this can also be used defensively”

no one knew exactly to what degree obviously, but this was obvious from the start.

—
but it feels like decisions go from liberal to conservative on the fly.

some decisions seem so liberal,

“let’s try magearna and Chien-pao , even tho we have little reason to think they’d be any more balanced outside of a cool new resist profile magearna brings to the meta, and Chien Pappy can’t even 2HKO magearna with its STABs, forcing mag usage even higher on every team is a small price to pay for making it possible to deal with Chien-Pao. It’s all good they can be banned quickly anyway”

Side note about eleki

eleki isn’t included in this, even tho it was clearly worse than both of the above. This is because to be fair, there was no precedent outside of Natdex that demonstrated eleki was broken. And Natdex is allegedly invalid precedent.

“Tera water Volcarona nukes skeledirge, heatran and more, and all it takes is a small price of blowing your Tera slot and using an otherwise useless Terablast! This is grounds for a quick ban and skipping all precedent because Volcarona has been discussed for many gens as being borderline broken”

Some decisions seem so conservative

“we cannot discuss suspecting terastalization for at least some months, even tho the vote on restricting it was so close, in fact the closest ever. This is not even on the cards. More important fish to fry here”

—

Just some comments, not an attack on anything or anyone. Very grateful for a good conversation and a very fun game with fun metas since forever. It’s just fun to pick at things, especially because there’s this idea that things “must be a certain way”, and then you still get “on the fly” things happening like the kings rock treatment.

conservative: there is a high burden of proof on items to demonstrate that they break too many pokemon

liberal: let’s ban kings rock, it turned cloyster into cheese, and nothing else misses it anyway

like , I get why the decision was made, and am completely OK with it. But this shows that everything is possible. It doesn’t need to be so fixed.

 

[TheStashmaster]

I thought Chien-Pao got banned? I just played (and got swept at the end of the game) by one

Edit: AND NOW ANOTHER

 

[singaporygon]

I thought Chien-Pao got banned? I just played (and got swept at the end of the game) by one

Edit: AND NOW ANOTHER

Takes a long time to get implemented by the two or three people who have earned the authority to update Showdown.

 

[MattC (Banned)]

Takes a long time to get implemented by the two or three people who have earned the authority to update Showdown.

Feel bad for Kris and Marty
Is it worth it guys?

Also idk if I'm even allowed to do that but sorry for the tag

 

[Alternator]

Yeah, I think at that point it's a bit telling but a choice will have to be made after WCOP. The community has tried at the very least to conserve that mechanic but it's at the expense of so many mons getting banned because of it. Outside of Volc there a few mons that could be deemed problematic due to that mechanic

There really aren't "so many mons getting banned because of it."

It was a factor in Annihilape's ban, but he probably would have been banned anyway for being too oppressive versus defensive teams.

It was the major factor in banning Espathra, who would have been an obnoxious matchup fish without it, but not broken.

It was the sole factor in banning Regieleki.

And...that's it. Other banned mons used the mechanic, of course, but it wasn't what pushed them into ban territory. Chi-Yu one shotting Blissey with Tera-Fire in the sun is a cool calc and all, but Chi-Yu in the sun without tera one shots things, too.

Future action candidates that could be banned with tera in the metagame, but fine without, is:

Volcarona. Matchup moth doing matchup moth things, now with a tool to be even less predictable and have even more choices. Might get banned anyway, but clearly less likely.

That's it, that's the list. The collateral damage from the mechanic, in terms of bans, is 2-4 mons.

 

[TheStashmaster]

Hear me out

A Zamazenta Rillaboom Team

Where its an Iron defense Zamazenta running grassy seed

 

[I8NY]

It would just be for testing/suspect purposes.

It makes no logical sense to have a tera vote without putting up a suspect ladder.

This isn't a mon suspect where you can kinda visualize what a meta would look like.

Tera is a weird problem that requires a novel approach.

I get what ur saying, but things like this were tried before with a gen 6 uu no scald ladder, and usually don't work because with two ladders, people tend to prefer the official one.

 

[coral fan]

tbh after playing a lot of post-home OU, I'm starting to realise Volcarona is broken with Tera.
here are its best checks and counters, mostly assuming Tera Ground (by far its best set right now imo)

for reference, here's the set:

Revenge killers
loses to Tera Grass/Water
// loses to Tera Grass, requires rain
(band darts kills) - but ohkoed by +2 tera blast ground
(stone edge, 2hkoed by +1 volc & is spikes-weak)
risky (+2 252 SpA Tera Ground Volcarona Tera Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Walking Wake: 313-370 (92.3 - 109.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO)
(can get haxed, usually loses to bulky Volc)
can whirlwind, in an emergency

Counters
can lose to fierydance spam if multiscale is broken, espeed doesn't ohko
requires Tera to Grass/Flying/Bug
loses to Bulky Volc w/Morning Sun
(ohkoed by +3 tera blast)

this isn't really okay for a mon to be this restrictive in the builder, and have so much set variety that even the "counters" have ways they can lose to it.
this mon is lowkey broken, and to me is the 2nd priority broken mon after Zama-Hero

 

[RoyalDispenser]

There really aren't "so many mons getting banned because of it."

At this point idk how anyone could say that.

Is tera *exclusively* the reason a mon was strong? Perhaps not, but they would be significantly more checkable without it.

Iron bundle I don't think would've been as QB worthy if it weren't for the fact you have to take in consideration tera water would nuke everything and defensive teras would let it live past revenge killers.

Chien-pao before was slimly banned for tera coverage and strong dark stab tera, now it was definitely banned because tera dark crunch nuked every thing, it was way too strong by default to give a mon like that fucking adaptability in a time when dark checks aren't as common.

Espathra was banned cause of tera coverage, if it was not able to make its dazzling gleam STAB or have a fighting coverage in tera blast, it 100% would be stone walled by dark types, it would need a lot of calm minds to break through some of them with just gleam.

Annihilape was banned cause tera water let it break any checks it had.

The only reason anyone is even saying 'volc' at all is because its a prime example of what tera does to a pokemon even though volc itself is overrated, it removes the concept of 'matchups' for 'well i'll do this if the match up aint good' even though the concept of volc stays the same in losing the matchup it didn't prepare for. Volc could literally lose viability in things it checks like zama and magearna and still get bitched about. (EDIT: lol ^)

Regi don't need to say

The only bans that stick out as not really being because of tera are Zama (never should've dropped here regardless, last gen proved that), flutter mane (ghost horse 2.0), and palafin (cause 160 base attack with a decent speed tier and unlike kartana, good bulk is kinda ridiculous.). It has always been part of the discussion with bans on how tera lets any of the above break past its usual checks. Even chi-yu just nuked anything after tera lowering the check pool even if chi-yu itself was still overtuned.

 

[KrazyKoopa95]

tbh after playing a lot of post-home OU, I'm starting to realise Volcarona is broken with Tera.
here are its best checks and counters, mostly assuming Tera Ground (by far its best set right now imo)

for reference, here's the set:
View attachment 524101

Revenge killers
loses to Tera Grass/Water
// loses to Tera Grass, requires rain
(band darts kills) - but ohkoed by +2 tera blast ground
(stone edge, 2hkoed by +1 volc & is spikes-weak)
risky (+2 252 SpA Tera Ground Volcarona Tera Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Walking Wake: 313-370 (92.3 - 109.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO)
(can get haxed, usually loses to bulky Volc)

Counters
can lose to fierydance spam if multiscale is broken, espeed doesn't ohko
requires Tera to Grass/Flying/Bug
loses to Bulky Volc w/Morning Sun
(ohkoed by +3 tera blast)

this isn't really okay for a mon to be this restrictive in the builder, and have so much set variety that even the "counters" have ways they can lose to it.
this mon is lowkey broken, and to me is the 2nd priority broken mon after Zama-Hero

You havent mentioned Volcarona that run Tera Fiary with Terablast or Tera Ghost to avoid ESpeed…

 

[ausma]

To continue discussing council discussion of Volcarona and why it will be included in the next radar, I wanted to briefly give my 2 cents on the matter.

Volcarona, to me, is a Pokemon whose versatility is mostly dictated by the current state of Tera in SV OU. Most of Volcarona's strength centers quite heavily around Volcarona's versatile applications of Tera, Tera Blast being able to augment its coverage seamlessly, and Volcarona being able to take advantage of nothing turns better than other Pokemon, which type shifting can create more of. I do believe that their degree of strength and Volcarona's set options are primarily enabled by unpredictability, and while this is because of Tera, I believe that Volcarona is moreso optimized at exploiting it compared to other Pokemon in the tier to where it stands out as a special case to me.

I personally have not had as damning experiences as others with Volcarona, primarily due to my building habits, though adapting to a Pokemon that is so heavily leveraged by unpredictability is a very unreasonable ask in a metagame so driven by a need for role compression. If Tera is restricted or removed from the tier it should be freed imo, since it does have a genuinely awesome and useful resistance profile into Iron Valiant and Enamorus that pairs well with Flame Body to enable progress into contact-based attackers like Great Tusk or Kingambit at the same time. These have some healthy merits in the metagame imo that wouldn't be usurped by the degree of unpredictability that unrestricted Tera currently enables for it.

 

[coral fan]

You havent mentioned Volcarona that run Tera Fiary with Terablast or Tera Ghost to avoid ESpeed…

I don't feel like those are really viable with Heatran now in the tier. Ground and Water are the best sets by far.

Volcarona, to me, is a Pokemon whose versatility is mostly dictated by the current state of Tera in SV OU. Most of Volcarona's strength centers quite heavily around Volcarona's versatile applications of Tera, Tera Blast being able to augment its coverage seamlessly, and Volcarona being able to take advantage of nothing turns better than other Pokemon, which type shifting can create more of. I do believe that their degree of strength and Volcarona's set options are primarily enabled by unpredictability, and while this is because of Tera, I believe that Volcarona is moreso optimized at exploiting it compared to other Pokemon in the tier to where it stands out as a special case to me.

I personally have not had as damning experiences as others with Volcarona, primarily due to my building habits, though adapting to a Pokemon that is so heavily leveraged by unpredictability is a very unreasonable ask in a metagame so driven by a need for role compression. If Tera is restricted or removed from the tier it should be freed imo, since it does have a genuinely awesome and useful resistance profile into Iron Valiant and Enamorus that pairs well with Flame Body to enable progress into contact-based attackers like Great Tusk or Kingambit at the same time. These have some healthy merits in the metagame imo that wouldn't be usurped by the degree of unpredictability that unrestricted Tera currently enables for it.

Yup I completely agree, it's heavily Tera-reliant and does benefit immensely from unpredictability/set variety, and is pretty far ahead of other mons that also share those traits (eg Dragonite and Iron Valiant).
All my post was arguing was that "If Tera remains as-is, Volcarona should be suspect tested".
It is a valuable and fun addition to the tier, but it's just too much right now, so I hope people consider either restricting/banning Tera, or, if that's not realistic, banning Volcarona.

 

[Pabloaram]

On the Volcarona problem: i think the versatility problem was always there with the existence of Hidden Power back in the day but Volc can also change his typing making her harder to revenge kill. HDB was a godsend to Volc last gen also

For something like knock off i get, its too strong (the base damage buff was unnecessary imo)
But i'll never understand the logic behind removing pursuit and hidden power

Same as lolgod3 on the reason of hidden power being strong as universal coverage (not like now exist a stronger version that can be also physical and you gain STAB on it) but pursuit was for progaming problems - i hear back in gen 8 that Pursuit give bugs when interacting with Dynamax so they nuked that -

 

[Crimson Chris]

As much as I would rather a thread for Tera discussions to be made. To give my overall thoughs.

I feel like the deal with Tera and whether it should be banned or not should be taken in steps. Overall, the fact that this whole debate is split and so contentious with multiple people on multiple sides show this isn't exactly as simple and black and white scenario. This is a complex matter by what Smogon players see as a healthy meta (which to be blunt is far from my personal ideals of what a Pokemon meta should be, however when talking here I adapt to the rules here as I kinda come here to learn and less get into arguments). But overall, this isn't cut and dry and it will be really interesting once everyone from both sides takes the time to respectfully have a discussion about this (as to be blunt once again, neither side has been pleasant in any shape or form this thread and has constantly devolved into screaming) and come to a consensus.

Personally, I would say that dealing with Tera should be handled in steps, a middle ground if you will. First give people the preview. Try that out for a month or two and see how the meta develops. If Tera is still seen as problematic, then move on to a full on ban. In this manner, we can have actual data to say if team preview helped or not. This way we can without a doubt say that Tera, even when restricted is still utterly uncompetitive. This is once again, my PoV.

My overall stance is Pro-Tera. But unlike others here, I am not someone who is super knowledgeable on the ends and out of this side of Pokemon. My opinions are purely based on my personal enjoyment of said mechanic and how much I genuinely love it due to what potential it can bring out of mons who otherwise wouldn't have been given the time of day. It makes me happy seeing mons like G-Articuno and such be able to overcome their weaknesses and stand with some of the big boys. However, I also understand that just as weaker mons got buffed, stronger mons have also gotten the same buff and some have proven to be quite much. Hence why I truly understand where the Pro-Ban side is coming from. Basically, I understand both sides and while my allegiance is skewed towards one side due to my bias. I do believe the opposing side has many strong points as well. Sorry for rambling. But this has been on my mind to say for a bit. Due to my lack of...meta knowledge and experience, this likely means much of nothing lol

PS: Unban Koraidon for a month you cowards. Simply for the lolz

 

[Ctann]

It’s interesting that Volcarona is deemed broken by some due to unpredictability; which is augmented by Tera.

* Note, whilst I would rate Volcarona - had it been on the survey - a 2 or 3/5 at most, there is big merit in that argument.

there isn’t a discussion about the opportunity cost of using Tera on a partnered Pokémon, and how Volcarona performs against high pressure play, example: sacked on a 30% hail mary switch in to try and come back against a physical sweeper, lol.

It doesn’t perform so well against HO or stall, it does decently well vs balance, on 50/50s. Example: skeledirge switches in to quiver dance, and immediately uses slack off next turn to scout for Tera water Terablast. If the Volcarona uses Tera that turn, it safely Tera’s to fairy/water type and Volcarona has essentially been blocked. The only option for the volc player is to predict that and blow another turn QDing/flame throwing , creating a pseudo sucker punch situation.

in short, a game ending sweep or a sitting duck based on how the game turns out and how one player reads the others plays.

please tell me, how is this better than kingambit just before home dropped. At least kingambit retained massive utility by foregoing terastalization. Games were literally being decided by coin flips, and sucker punch just made it even more 50/50 than it already was.

theres also parallels to other setup sweepers. Volcarona is the contemporary face of coinflip matchups. Kingambit was the pre-home face of it, and arguably did it even more 50/50.

the common denominator?

we don’t know what type it can be, and also;

whether it will actually Tera to that type.

 

[fish anemometer]

We should make a Tornadus-T set tier list

S
Specs

I wanted to talk about as I weirdly like him and I try to have some teams with it at all times. With and the present, it was a bit disappointingly slow and weak. I only found 1 set I liked and was able to keep me in the 1900-2000elo range (tbf a lot of this elo was and hard carrying... AAAAnyways....


Tornadus-Therian @ Choice Specs
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Heat Wave
- Icy Wind

Definitely my favorite torn set, inspired by an old SS OU ben gay team. I found other sets to be outcompeted by or way too mu fishing for my liking. This set fixed a lot of its issues imo and while not a super S-tier it's quite threatening. Looking at its moves, you will lose some games missing any one of the moves, but you will also win some by surprising your opponent with the big hits! When it works it's addicting! Regenerator mitigates the need for boots enough to make the set viable. This guy has a little trouble vs screens HO and TR but there are some phenomenal mus into balance/bulky offense, against stall it's not the best progress maker, however because the double switch on is super free the longevity it has is kinda insane. Rain is also a great mu as hurricane gains 100% accuracy and ohkoes standard defensive and tera water can troll it further. Though tera is really flexible on this mon and is mostly just to patch up weaknesses in your team. Cheers y'all thanks for reading if you have!

BAN VOLCARONA - I think what makes tera lame (I dont think it's entirely lame, im ok with just banning however many abusers is needed) is set up sweepers and quiver dance is one of the worst offenders of them all because it makes revenging a lot more troublesome. I play a lot of lower tiers and have seen the damage the oricorios and have done to their respective tiers. just has the stats to do it up here in OU. I bring up the lower tier examples because matchup moth has always been inherently toxic and I think we've seen how tera pushes it over the edge with another tool to bust through checks and avoid being revenge killed. I'm glad to see it being discussed to the length it is now!

 

[June Heat]

I wanted to talk about as I weirdly like him and I try to have some teams with it at all times. With and the present, it was a bit disappointingly slow and weak. I only found 1 set I liked and was able to keep me in the 1900-2000elo range (tbf a lot of this elo was and hard carrying... AAAAnyways....


Tornadus-Therian @ Choice Specs
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Heat Wave
- Icy Wind

Definitely my favorite torn set, inspired by an old SS OU ben gay team. I found other sets to be outcompeted by or way too mu fishing for my liking. This set fixed a lot of its issues imo and while not a super S-tier it's quite threatening. Looking at its moves, you will lose some games missing any one of the moves, but you will also win some by surprising your opponent with the big hits! When it works it's addicting! Regenerator mitigates the need for boots enough to make the set viable. This guy has a little trouble vs screens HO and TR but there are some phenomenal mus into balance/bulky offense, against stall it's not the best progress maker, however because the double switch on is super free the longevity it has is kinda insane. Rain is also a great mu as hurricane gains 100% accuracy and ohkoes standard defensive and tera water can troll it further. Though tera is really flexible on this mon and is mostly just to patch up weaknesses in your team. Cheers y'all thanks for reading if you have!

BAN VOLCARONA - I think what makes tera lame (I dont think it's entirely lame, im ok with just banning however many abusers is needed) is set up sweepers and quiver dance is one of the worst offenders of them all because it makes revenging a lot more troublesome. I play a lot of lower tiers and have seen the damage the oricorios and have done to their respective tiers. just has the stats to do it up here in OU. I bring up the lower tier examples because matchup moth has always been inherently toxic and I think we've seen how tera pushes it over the edge with another tool to bust through checks and avoid being revenge killed. I'm glad to see it being discussed to the length it is now!

Love the set, but why Hurricane over Bleakwind Storm? Is the 10 bp really better then 10% accuracy?