Unpopular opinions

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I hate what they did to contests in BDSP and in fact wish for a whole spin off where to only way to progress is to win ribbons in the old fashion contest style

As someone who adores Contests and really enjoyed them in Gen 3/4 and ORAS (ORAS Contest Spectaculars are great!), I have to agree.

In general two of the best side features of DPP, including Contests themselves, just felt so watered down in BDSP which was immensely disappointing for me. The other thing that I'm talking about is Secret Bases, which were such a cool feature in Gen 3/4 and ORAS as well, but BDSP just changed Secret Bases to being statue holders to put up statues to manipulate spawns in the Hideaways. Old style Secret Bases actually felt like a cool hideout you had somewhere in the region and you could be really creative with what you put in them and it was awesome. BDSP? Boring as heck.

Seeing both of them watered down to a mere shell of what they were in BDSP was very saddening for me since those were among my favorite things in DPP and if there was one thing that absolutely disappointed me with BDSP (aside from the lack of Platinum features) it was Contests and Bases being much shallower renditions of themselves without any of what made them charming to begin with.

I would absolutely be down for a spin off focused on Contests though. I miss Contests very much and would love a whole game where I can do them as a main thing.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Actually what I think Eriorguez meant was, stat-wise, Kleavor should have been inbetween Scyther & Scizor:

Scyther:
70/110/80/55/80/105//500
Kleavor's Actual Stats:
70/135/95/45/70/85//500
"Inbetweener" Kleavor:
70/120/90/55/80/85//500
Scizor:
70/130/100/55/80/65//500

But as for the concept you mentioned, it would have to be done with a Pokemon whose stats have a radical change either in numbers or distribution (also maybe a Type difference).

Why exactly? If anything Scyther & Scizor's stat equivalence makes them perfect for a change of this nature, because the effect of skipping or becoming Kleavor would be more apparent than otherwise. An Onix that becomes a Steelix is always better, period - it's a straightforward upgrade. A Scizor that knows different moves because it had become a Kleavor is a more subtle, less straightforward upgrade.

& I know what the original poster was going for, but surely for a new Pokemon to become the 2nd stage of an already-existing line you'd have to make it optional by design? Because there'd be Scizor from earlier generations that would have skipped the Kleavor stage anyway.

 

[Worldie]

Let's be honest, the main reason they kept Kleavor as its own separate thing is cause giving Scizor Stone Axe would have been a very stupid idea

 

[Pikachu315111]

Why exactly? If anything Scyther & Scizor's stat equivalence makes them perfect for a change of this nature, because the effect of skipping or becoming Kleavor would be more apparent than otherwise. An Onix that becomes a Steelix is always better, period - it's a straightforward upgrade. A Scizor that knows different moves because it had become a Kleavor is a more subtle, less straightforward upgrade.

& I know what the original poster was going for, but surely for a new Pokemon to become the 2nd stage of an already-existing line you'd have to make it optional by design? Because there'd be Scizor from earlier generations that would have skipped the Kleavor stage anyway.

What Moves does Kleavor learn that they just can't have Scizor learn? While I know Scizor can't learn Smack Down or Rock Slide, at the same time there's no reason they couldn't add the TM for Rock Slide to its TM list (I'm actually surprised it doesn't have it). Also, if Kleavor was an inserted mid evo, they couldn't give it Stone Axe as that Move wouldn't make sense for Scizor to have.

And yes, the new Mid Stage would have to be optional. But that just means there would have to be a point in doing it which they couldn't accomplished by either making the base stage stronger if they felt it was too weak or making it an alternate evolution if they wanted to go a different direction.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

What Moves does Kleavor learn that they just can't have Scizor learn? While I know Scizor can't learn Smack Down or Rock Slide, at the same time there's no reason they couldn't add the TM for Rock Slide to its TM list (I'm actually surprised it doesn't have it). Also, if Kleavor was an inserted mid evo, they couldn't give it Stone Axe as that Move wouldn't make sense for Scizor to have.

In this alternate reality I'm postulating we can presume that Stone Axe would be slightly different. Or... it wouldn't be and it'd just be a Rock coverage move that Kleavor-adjacent Scizor would simply have access to.

And yes, the new Mid Stage would have to be optional. But that just means there would have to be a point in doing it which they couldn't accomplished by either making the base stage stronger if they felt it was too weak or making it an alternate evolution if they wanted to go a different direction.

I also mentioned abilities as a potential difference too. The way ability slots works now doesn't quite mesh with this, but a flag could potentially be added that allows Scizor that evolve from Kleavor to retain Sharpness instead of changing to Light Metal (and/or potentially Sheer Force too).

Idk. I don't feel particularly motivated to defend this concept to the bitter end, I just think it's a possibility that could work well. It's not a million miles away from the sort of thing they've already done.

 

[Worldie]

Idk. I don't feel particularly motivated to defend this concept to the bitter end, I just think it's a possibility that could work well. It's not a million miles away from the sort of thing they've already done.

While interesting in theory, I feel that "adding mid-evolutions" would just end up being both unintuitive and a competitive logistical nightmare on practical standpoint.

Basically risking to go back to scenarios like Breelom losing access to Spore permanently upon evolving, or the extremely convoluted breeding chains that needed to be done in some gens to access certain egg moves.

Fancy and flavourful, sure, but I think we're well past the age where "complex, convoluted and obscure" was a good thing for non-niche videogames.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

While interesting in theory, I feel that "adding mid-evolutions" would just end up being both unintuitive and a competitive logistical nightmare on practical standpoint.

Basically risking to go back to scenarios like Breelom losing access to Spore permanently upon evolving, or the extremely convoluted breeding chains that needed to be done in some gens to access certain egg moves.

Fancy and flavourful, sure, but I think we're well past the age where "complex, convoluted and obscure" was a good thing for non-niche videogames.

Reasonable take, though I don't think that Pokemon will ever leave behind "complex, convoluted and obscure" as a design choice completely (Galarian Yamask says hi). Am I right in thinking Hisuians can't evolve in ScVi?

Unintuitive - well, it depends how well they explain it in-game (so probably not very well, then). Logistical nightmare... eh, I wouldn't really call it that but maybe.

 

[Worldie]

Am I right in thinking Hisuians can't evolve in ScVi?

As of now the only ones that cannot evolve are either the ones with regional evolutions (es, Goomy into H-Sliggoo) or require "use move in style X" (es, H-Qwilfish). The others can evolve regularly.
I wouldn't be surprised if the DLCs add a way for the former to evolve though, since the trailers seemed to imply the possibility of these "regional areas" in the second DLC which hosted species from other regions.

I don't think that Pokemon will ever leave behind "complex, convoluted and obscure" as a design choice completely (Galarian Yamask says hi)

I think we'll still keep seeing the odd obscure-y thing, but even the few we had left are slowly being rendered easier to access, or are just generational one-of that become much easier the next gen or with the coming of DLCs.

 

[Castersvarog]

I think the problem with Hoenn's water route isn't that there's a lot of them, but rather they're all the same. The ocean has many different kind of biomes, both above and under water, they could have made the routes different from one another which would help break up the monotony of surfing on yet another water route. From one of my old posts on this very thread:

Plus with Hoenn specifically a lot of the encounters when surfing will just be tentacool and the Wingull line, Mons you’ve absolutely encountered multiple times by this point already. If there were more surfing Mons to encounter like the Horsea, Remoraid, Mantine or Wailmer lines it would have helped alleviate the repetition I feel

 

[Madam Monette]

They've actually gotten better with that over the years. Just look through the Water Egg Groups (One (Terrestrial), Two (Fish), & Three (Invertebrates)).

I know and I'm glad they're diversifying. I'm hoping it gets to a point where the aquatic Pokemon selection in a newer game becomes so diverse, that little to none of them would be water type.

 

[Pikachu315111]

I know and I'm glad they're diversifying. I'm hoping it gets to a point where the aquatic Pokemon selection in a newer game becomes so diverse, that little to none of them would be water type.

While I doubt we'll ever have no aquatic Water-types (it makes sense that a Pokemon which lives in the water would develop Water-type skills if not be a Water-type itself), I would hope now that we've gotten over 1k Pokemon and next gen would be the big 10, GF would be more experimental with their idea of what creature would have what Type. Hisuian Qwilfish went from Water/Poison to Dark/Poison, so it seems like they are beginning to span out.

 

[MoonlightRose]

From a game design perspective the Gen 2 starters make more sense for Gen 1 and vice versa.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

From a game design perspective the Gen 2 starters make more sense for Gen 1 and vice versa.

How so? Could you elaborate at all?

 

[Rapti]

From a game design perspective the Gen 2 starters make more sense for Gen 1 and vice versa.

Because gen 2 starters are monotyped and gen 1's have two with dual types?

I guess

I mean I met pokemon fans that to this day still tend to think that Rock is immune to Electric, so yeah more single typed pokemon would have helped with that

 

[Ironmage]

Because gen 2 starters are monotyped and gen 1's have two with dual types?

I guess

I mean I met pokemon fans that to this day still tend to think that Rock is immune to Electric, so yeah more single typed pokemon would have helped with that

While I don't have much to say for Charizard, I feel that the Bulbasaur line's second type fits into what I think of for gen 1. The Poison type is massive in RGBY. There's a significant part of me that feels the combat system rode the momentum of gen 1 Poison for a long time and the games are worse for having it finally slow down. Having pokedex number 001 be a Poison type just makes sense to me. Chikorita and its apparent focus on screens might still have led to a great series, but it's not the one that was made.

 

[MoonlightRose]

How so? Could you elaborate at all?

Series starts off keeping things simple with the starters being single typed, sequel adds some variety and a hint of complexity by having one of of them gain a type and another having a second right from the start.

 

[CPU]

While I don't have much to say for Charizard, I feel that the Bulbasaur line's second type fits into what I think of for gen 1. The Poison type is massive in RGBY. There's a significant part of me that feels the combat system rode the momentum of gen 1 Poison for a long time and the games are worse for having it finally slow down. Having pokedex number 001 be a Poison type just makes sense to me. Chikorita and its apparent focus on screens might still have led to a great series, but it's not the one that was made.

I get you love Poison and residual damage, but saying that the combat system "rode the momentum of gen 1 Poison" seems nonsensical. Poison may have dominated the Kanto dex numerically, but the vast majority of Poison types were quite weak, with the best ones being good in spite of being Poison (I mean, what did Poison offer defensively in Gen 1? A resistance to Razor Leaf/Mega Drain/Submission? ). The part-Grass ones would have enjoyed an EQ resistance and Tentacruel/Gengar would have much preferred to not be weak to Psychic/EQ.

Offensively it was terrible, with only two types it hit super effectively (and it even lost one of these after Gen 1, but we're back up to two again with Fairy) and its best move had 65 BP (this might have been a deliberate choice to highlight the status effect, but...). It kinda had special focus as a status effect, with a normal/strong distinction and the strong version being given to the whole dex, but normal Poison only dealt 1/16 of total health in Gen 1, and Toxic's increasing damage getting removed entirely if the inflected Pokémon was switched out. It stacked with Leech Seed, but that's two turns of doing chip damage that can just be countered by switching. I would argue that the status is possibly the weakest it ever was in Gen 1.

IMO, the huge number of Poison types in Kanto's dex also influenced how many Poison Pokémon we got per generation since. It took until Gen 7 to exceed the total number of Poison types added in Gen 1. That's absurd.

With all that said, Bulbasaur being part Poison is kind of a nice benefit at the start of the game as it's immune to Poison from Poison Sting and thus can avoid the overworld chip damage. I'm not sure if it was a deliberate choice, but it works out pretty well (even if said Poison typing wasn't reflected in its moveset at all).

 

[Ransei]

Hmm... gonna whip out a several opinions at once.

Delta Episode

Devon Corporation building has two monuments in front of it. One resembles a Sun Stone, the other resembles a Moon Stone.
Zinnia had to stop scientists from creating a wormhole that'd transport a meteor to an alternate universe.
You had to tackle the meteor yourself, only to discover an alien creature was inside it.
You are sent to a tropical resort area afterwards, where you find a man with amnesia as result of having fallen from the sky.

Opinion 1: At this point I'm convinced Gamefreak put up a statue of the Battle Tower in ORAS not as a way to mock players, but as a means to foreshadow Anabel's appearance in Sun and Moon. Gen 7 references are shoved all over the Delta Episode and in more places throughout Gen 6. I know generations tend to foreshadow the following generation a bit but ORAS did it far more than usual, as if they knew they planned to release Sun and Moon next. The entire Resort Area in general is one great big foreshadowing of Gen 7.

Opinion 2: Two Kalos follow-up games were discovered as placeholders in Sun and Moon's source code. I don't think this meant they were planning to work on them. There has been no evidence of any work being done for these two games and from Sun and Moon's source code, even all of Zygarde's data was found to be written from scratch, meaning they weren't copy/pasted from a planned game or something in the likes of this. These games could've just been placeholders, just in case they decided they were going to make a full plan on making the games.

Opinion 3: The DidYouKnowGaming? video on Pokemon Z mentioned Gamefreak said they didn't work on Pokemon Z, in order to release ORAS instead, then Sun and Moon next. After looking into ORAS a ton I'm convinced they were the de-facto upper version games of Gen 6. Not Kalos but a different region with Kalos shoved all over it and more. For a remake, ORAS seems to greatly expand on the lore of its generation's debut region, unlike the other remakes. FRLG mildly expanded on Hoenn by adding... some BS postgame quest you had to complete in order for you to even trade with RSE. HGSS mildly expanded on Sinnoh by adding in a Sinjoh ruins event. LGPE brought in Alola formes, Mina, and some weird diagram that implies Necrozma created its universe. BDSP added just about nothing from Galar. ORAS on the other hand? ORAS added just about as many new mega evolutions as XY did, completed the lore on Mega Evolution XY tried to explain, sharply referenced AZ multiple times throughout the postgame episode, and used the letters "A" and "Z" as sharp references to mean beginning and end. They brought a character named Zinnia, with her partner named Aster, A, Z. They had Archie, Matt, Maxie, and Courtney greatly involved in trying to fulfill what was known as Project AZOTH. According to a grunt, the A stood for the beginning, the Z stood for the end. Even the names Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire are an AZ reference, for Alpha is the first letter of the Greek alphabet and Omega is the last letter of the Greek alphabet. I think Gamefreak knew what they were doing here. Zygarde was left to be fleshed out more in the anime, after Gamefreak wrote a dex entry detailing how Zygarde "monitors ecosystems in a cave and reveals its secret power upon disruption". It's sorta exactly what Zygarde ended up doing by the end of the generation, then everything else relevant to the lore really got done. ORAS didn't have a Battle Frontier, but they made Super Secret Bases and legendary encounters absolutely insane, as well as implementing valuable features like DexNav and Soaring Through The Sky.

Opinion 4: If I were to be honest, even with just a Battle Maison, which has 5 different battle modes as is, the rest of the content ORAS has to offer gives it one of the biggest postgames in the series, even with tiny stuff like Super Training, Poke Amie features, Pokemon Contests, on top of Mirage Island exploration, Super Secret Base exploration, the best online interface (and most rewarding player interaction system) in the series, the Vs. Recorder mock battles allowing you to rematch any sort of team possible in the game, and ORAS having some of the best shiny hunting methods in the series, there are very few Pokemon games if any at all that are so versatile with what options you have for the postgame. Black 2 for example, may have raw content, but it's not nearly as versatile, as much of its postgame features are either battle facilities or something reminiscent of a battle facility.

Opinion 5: If Pokemon XY follow-ups were planned to be made, they had to be scrapped well before ORAS. As with the aforementioned statements follow, ORAS does so much to expand its former game for what was supposed to be a remake. Not only that, ORAS shoved literally every single legendary alongside every other Pokémon unable to be found in XY into their game, allowing you to complete the National Pokédex with just X, Y, Omega Ruby, and Alpha Sapphire. I very heavily doubt this would have been the case if they actually planned on releasing Pokemon Z after the release of ORAS, as Gamefreak loves to stretch out all the possible Pokemon you can get in a generation to ALL of their games. They would have left out Pokemon specifically for Pokemon Z, that you would not have been able to get in ORAS otherwise. It's how they work every other upper version game in the series. Maybe it would've been all those Hoopa ring legendaries they would have held back.

Opinion 6: Much of the aforementioned above boils down to this post: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/unpopular-opinions.3530232/page-448#post-9295893. I also forgot to bring up the https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Strange_Souvenir, an item specifically made in Gen 6 to foreshadow Gen 7.

 

[isthisajojoref5]

Here's two of mine, not expecting any of them to really be that incredible or weird to anybody.

I absolutely adore the Red and Green Mew sprite.
I get that it's not everybody's cup of tea, but I love how it plays more off of the design inspiration of Mew than later sprites and official artwork. I don't think it's pretty, but I don't think something that's supposed to be the common ancestor of all / most Pokemon will necessarily look pretty. Not saying the newer Mew sprites aren't good, I think they're just as good with some being better, but I just love how much of a little goblin it looks.

Despite Gen 8's many problems, I loved a vast majority of its mons
The Gen 8 games sucked (minus PLA, loved it to death), but SWSH introduced mons that I enjoy. Perrserker, for example, is a mon that I really like. From its Viking inspiration to its unique ability Steely Spirit to its toothy little grin, the chaotic berserker cat's awesome. PLA has a lot of new mons I enjoy too. Sneasler, Ursaluna, Basculegion, Hisui Zorua + Zoroark, and Kleavor to name a few. Not taking any competitive into account, though if I did I would like to mention how much I despised Zacian-C and Shadow Rider in Gen 8. Overall, though, Gen 8's not all bad, even if it's still pretty bad.

There's more I could add but I've turned off my brain and don't feel like typing anything else out.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

This came to mind as I was writing about the Kanto starters in another thread and studying up elemental powers/magic, but as time has gone on and we're further removed from SwSh and Gen 8 as a whole, I think I finally realize why I don't like the Galar starters very much. They are relatively boring.

Design wise, they are extremely in-your-face and blatant with how anthropomorphic they are, to the point where it's uncanny. Rillaboom is perhaps the most naturalistic looking of the three, and it's the one I like the most, but the drum is a rather weakly implemented aspect of its design. I actually like anthropomorphic starters and don't mind them: I like them in their own unique way compared to the more animalistic starters from earlier generations, but the Galar trio takes it too far. Cinderace and Inteleon lean a bit too far into the humanoid design to the point where they almost feel like men wearing fursuits. I sort of like their designs individually admittedly, but they are not great together overall.

Gameplay and flavor-wise, they are rather weakly designed in quite a few ways despite being the strongest overall starters in competitive. All three of them are single-typed, with absolutely no second type to add to them. But more importantly, they are functionally extremely homogenous to the point where there is absolutely no distinction between them beyond their actual type and movepools. All three of them are functionally minmaxed with a high offensive stat and good Speed, and a relatively good movepool. Rillaboom is sort of different from the other two in that it's slower and has more bulk and HP, but it's still more or less the same in that it's basically a hard hitting attacker and nothing else, while Cinderace and Inteleon are comparatively both fast and frail hard hitting attackers. Flavor wise their designs don't invite much distinctiveness: they are all entertainment performers that don't really invite distinctive gameplay traits: Rillaboom is a drummer, Cinderace is a football (soccer) player, and Inteleon is a spy/sniper. The style is there, but the substance really isn't, which leads to them being practical, but extremely boring. You are not getting a different experience in SwSh by using any one of them: each one is functionally "hit hard and fast with STAB and coverage".

With other starter trios, you can get a distinct experience using each and every one of them because they were all designed distinctly gameplay-wise in line with their flavor, and thus your experience with the game would differ accordingly.
Kanto: Venusaur is a bulkier, relatively hard hitting Pokemon with limited coverage, but support moves like the powders, Leech Seed, Toxic, and whatnot. Charizard is a glass cannon who is all about hitting hard with attacks and relatively fast. Blastoise is bulkier, and has a mix of defense and offense at its disposal.
Johto: Meganium and Typhlosion are similar to Venusaur and Charizard but Meganium is a tad more defensive than Venusaur and has screens instead of powder moves, offering its own form of support. Typhlosion has distinct movepool differences from Charizard that make it unique in both GSC and HGSS. Feraligatr is the most distinct from Blastoise, being more of a physical attacker in HGSS while GSC Feraligatr is more of an attacker anyway.
Hoenn: Sceptile is fast, and Leaf Blade has a high critical hit ratio. It may not have raw power, but it strikes first and can knock something out quickly. Blaziken is a hard hitting mixed attacker with powerful STABs on both sides, with modest Speed. Swampert is slow and tanky, but can take hits and dish out a lot in return, and boasts an incredible defensive and offensive type combo in Water/Ground.
Sinnoh: Torterra is a slow physical tank, with a good second STAB in Earthquake that hits things Grass cannot quite hard, and has a lot of raw power moves and a few other tricks up its sleeve like Curse and Synthesis. Infernape is a fast mixed attacker, slightly weaker than its predecessor Blaziken but also much faster, and has a wide and varied movepool to go with it, much moreso than Blaziken. Empoleon is also slow, but is specially oriented and boasts a variety of resistances thanks to being part Steel, and has priority in Aqua Jet and decent support tricks up its sleeve combined with a good special movepool.
Unova: Serperior is offensively weak, but fast with good defensive stats. It can boost its power with Coil and heal with Leech Seed, and go for a sweep with boosted Leaf Blade and Return despite abysmal coverage. Emboar is much different from its predecessors, having more HP and being slower but having a lot more raw power, with Flare Blitz/Heat Crash and Hammer Arm for the purpose of hitting like a truck. Samurott has less raw power, but good mixed offensive stats and a colorful movepool on both sides, and has priority or boosting in Swords Dance.
Kalos: Chesnaught is a paladin, and fights like one too: it has great physical endurance, hits hard physically, and can run some defensive tactics like Spiky Shield while having a good offensive movepool filled with strong physical attacks. Delphox is strong on the special side with decent Special Defense, and can hit hard and relatively fast on that end. Greninja is much faster, and has a varied and colorful movepool as a mixed attacker that allows it to hit things relatively quickly, even if it's frail. The DnD class theme really shines through with these three.
Alola: They're relatively similar here but the second typings definitely save them. Decidueye is a bit faster than both but has Swords Dance and also good Special Attack as a mixed attacker, Incineroar has more oomph on the physical side and is quite bulky unlike Decidueye, while Primarina has a fantastic typing, great Special Attack, and good STABs to be a slow, but powerful special Attacker.
Paldea: The one trio after Gen 8 thus far, and they're already miles ahead of Galar in my book. Meowscarada, true to being an illusionist and trickster, is a fast attacker with a signature move that always scores a critical hit, with other critical hit moves in its arsenal. Skeledirge is a heavyweight bulky special Attacker that takes hits well and hits hard back, and Torch Song can boost its power more. Quaquaval is slower, but hard hitting on the physical side, and can use powerful STABs and good coverage to hit harder.

---

I ranted quite extensively but you get the point. Galar just had no semblance of gameplay flavor with its starter trio to make them particularly distinctive with how to use them in gameplay: while they clearly were designed with human like personalities, the style so vastly outweighs the actual substance that it ultimately does not create for an interesting trio for an in-game playthrough for the starters in this trio. Their G-Max forms aren't really much better, seeing as how their G-Max moves are all the same "160 BP move that bypasses abilities". It just feels like there wasn't a lot of thought put into them and they end up being an extremely bad case of style over substance, where while they're good, the substance is utterly boring.

 

[Castersvarog]

Spoiler

This came to mind as I was writing about the Kanto starters in another thread and studying up elemental powers/magic, but as time has gone on and we're further removed from SwSh and Gen 8 as a whole, I think I finally realize why I don't like the Galar starters very much. They are relatively boring.

Design wise, they are extremely in-your-face and blatant with how anthropomorphic they are, to the point where it's uncanny. Rillaboom is perhaps the most naturalistic looking of the three, and it's the one I like the most, but the drum is a rather weakly implemented aspect of its design. I actually like anthropomorphic starters and don't mind them: I like them in their own unique way compared to the more animalistic starters from earlier generations, but the Galar trio takes it too far. Cinderace and Inteleon lean a bit too far into the humanoid design to the point where they almost feel like men wearing fursuits. I sort of like their designs individually admittedly, but they are not great together overall.

Gameplay and flavor-wise, they are rather weakly designed in quite a few ways despite being the strongest overall starters in competitive. All three of them are single-typed, with absolutely no second type to add to them. But more importantly, they are functionally extremely homogenous to the point where there is absolutely no distinction between them beyond their actual type and movepools. All three of them are functionally minmaxed with a high offensive stat and good Speed, and a relatively good movepool. Rillaboom is sort of different from the other two in that it's slower and has more bulk and HP, but it's still more or less the same in that it's basically a hard hitting attacker and nothing else, while Cinderace and Inteleon are comparatively both fast and frail hard hitting attackers. Flavor wise their designs don't invite much distinctiveness: they are all entertainment performers that don't really invite distinctive gameplay traits: Rillaboom is a drummer, Cinderace is a football (soccer) player, and Inteleon is a spy/sniper. The style is there, but the substance really isn't, which leads to them being practical, but extremely boring. You are not getting a different experience in SwSh by using any one of them: each one is functionally "hit hard and fast with STAB and coverage".

One other thing you’ve brought up that also doesn’t help is how the three of them are just Animal + theme. Rillaboom is just a gorilla who’s a drummer, Cinderace is just a rabbit that plays soccer, Intellion is just a lizard with spy gadgets.
But they aren’t even done well, Rillaboom carries around a drum for some reason instead of using its chest as a drum like how Gorillas do. Cinderace is not even subtle, it’s just a soccer player in every way possible, only thing missing is an animation where it’s holding its knee in pain after being hit. And Intellion just tries to just be James Bond but a scalie without even trying anything with the gadgets outside of the gun and glider.

Compare this to the Gen 9 starters, Skeledirge is a crocodile+a singer sure, but they lean into several different ideas like the day of the dead candy skulls, and have its Microphone be a reference to the Egyptian plover which have a symbiotic relationship with crocodiles. There’s even a possible Persona 3 references with the shiny and the Sun arcana’s story involving a story about a pink alligator and a bird who passed on.
Meowscarada is a stage magician with Jester elements, and it uses that theme pretty well, what with the mask, its outfit, and how it fights using flowers it turns invisible to put in both a show and a way of attacking.
Quaquaval is just everything to do with several different dances from both Spain and Brazil, that being ballet and samba respectively combined with different fighting technique that work like dances all while referencing bird mating rituals that involve a lot of birdy dancing.

They all have an animal+theme thing going on sure, but it’s not just that theme, it’s multiple different themes and ideas going on all at once unlike the Galar starters who just have the one major theme thrown onto an animal without doing anything to make it more interesting. It’s straight up just ctrl+c, ctrl+v and that’s it.

 

[pika pal]

Something I want to add to the Gen 8 starter-set criticism, it feels like there was supposed to be a theme to them as we saw with some trios like Gen 6 (DnD/Fantasy RPG classes) and now Gen 9 (Performers one would see at a Carnival or other celebration), but they got cold feet with it and now it's neither 3 distinct members nor 3 members with one idea.

Where I see the oddball is Sniper Intelleon. Cinderace is obviously a Football player to match Galar's Sports League references, and Rillaboom my thought would be Audience Goers with big show and instruments for their team in the stands (Team Yell filling a similar niche for Marnie) with the Drum or something akin to Megaphones, Banners, and Vuvuzelas. Then Intelleon is... a secret agent with a Sniper Rifle. Maybe this emerges from me reading too much into Rillaboom, but I can't help but see the Drum as part of its concept when they give it an object instead of going with chest beating as most picture with a large primate like that, and then pattern recognition follows. Maybe Intelleon would have been better as a bird or something talkative to stand-in for the Sports Commentators, or something defensive and with lockdown potential for a Referee?

If they had all just been unrelated on this front I wouldn't bat an eye, like if Intelleon was a detective and Rillaboom was, I don't know, a royal guard or something? But it's so close to having a theme between them that it bothers me how out of place Intelleon is next to the other two fitting one sort of naturally.

 

[Magcargo]

This came to mind as I was writing about the Kanto starters in another thread and studying up elemental powers/magic, but as time has gone on and we're further removed from SwSh and Gen 8 as a whole, I think I finally realize why I don't like the Galar starters very much. They are relatively boring.

Design wise, they are extremely in-your-face and blatant with how anthropomorphic they are, to the point where it's uncanny. Rillaboom is perhaps the most naturalistic looking of the three, and it's the one I like the most, but the drum is a rather weakly implemented aspect of its design. I actually like anthropomorphic starters and don't mind them: I like them in their own unique way compared to the more animalistic starters from earlier generations, but the Galar trio takes it too far. Cinderace and Inteleon lean a bit too far into the humanoid design to the point where they almost feel like men wearing fursuits. I sort of like their designs individually admittedly, but they are not great together overall.

Gameplay and flavor-wise, they are rather weakly designed in quite a few ways despite being the strongest overall starters in competitive. All three of them are single-typed, with absolutely no second type to add to them. But more importantly, they are functionally extremely homogenous to the point where there is absolutely no distinction between them beyond their actual type and movepools. All three of them are functionally minmaxed with a high offensive stat and good Speed, and a relatively good movepool. Rillaboom is sort of different from the other two in that it's slower and has more bulk and HP, but it's still more or less the same in that it's basically a hard hitting attacker and nothing else, while Cinderace and Inteleon are comparatively both fast and frail hard hitting attackers. Flavor wise their designs don't invite much distinctiveness: they are all entertainment performers that don't really invite distinctive gameplay traits: Rillaboom is a drummer, Cinderace is a football (soccer) player, and Inteleon is a spy/sniper. The style is there, but the substance really isn't, which leads to them being practical, but extremely boring. You are not getting a different experience in SwSh by using any one of them: each one is functionally "hit hard and fast with STAB and coverage".

With other starter trios, you can get a distinct experience using each and every one of them because they were all designed distinctly gameplay-wise in line with their flavor, and thus your experience with the game would differ accordingly.
Kanto: Venusaur is a bulkier, relatively hard hitting Pokemon with limited coverage, but support moves like the powders, Leech Seed, Toxic, and whatnot. Charizard is a glass cannon who is all about hitting hard with attacks and relatively fast. Blastoise is bulkier, and has a mix of defense and offense at its disposal.
Johto: Meganium and Typhlosion are similar to Venusaur and Charizard but Meganium is a tad more defensive than Venusaur and has screens instead of powder moves, offering its own form of support. Typhlosion has distinct movepool differences from Charizard that make it unique in both GSC and HGSS. Feraligatr is the most distinct from Blastoise, being more of a physical attacker in HGSS while GSC Feraligatr is more of an attacker anyway.
Hoenn: Sceptile is fast, and Leaf Blade has a high critical hit ratio. It may not have raw power, but it strikes first and can knock something out quickly. Blaziken is a hard hitting mixed attacker with powerful STABs on both sides, with modest Speed. Swampert is slow and tanky, but can take hits and dish out a lot in return, and boasts an incredible defensive and offensive type combo in Water/Ground.
Sinnoh: Torterra is a slow physical tank, with a good second STAB in Earthquake that hits things Grass cannot quite hard, and has a lot of raw power moves and a few other tricks up its sleeve like Curse and Synthesis. Infernape is a fast mixed attacker, slightly weaker than its predecessor Blaziken but also much faster, and has a wide and varied movepool to go with it, much moreso than Blaziken. Empoleon is also slow, but is specially oriented and boasts a variety of resistances thanks to being part Steel, and has priority in Aqua Jet and decent support tricks up its sleeve combined with a good special movepool.
Unova: Serperior is offensively weak, but fast with good defensive stats. It can boost its power with Coil and heal with Leech Seed, and go for a sweep with boosted Leaf Blade and Return despite abysmal coverage. Emboar is much different from its predecessors, having more HP and being slower but having a lot more raw power, with Flare Blitz/Heat Crash and Hammer Arm for the purpose of hitting like a truck. Samurott has less raw power, but good mixed offensive stats and a colorful movepool on both sides, and has priority or boosting in Swords Dance.
Kalos: Chesnaught is a paladin, and fights like one too: it has great physical endurance, hits hard physically, and can run some defensive tactics like Spiky Shield while having a good offensive movepool filled with strong physical attacks. Delphox is strong on the special side with decent Special Defense, and can hit hard and relatively fast on that end. Greninja is much faster, and has a varied and colorful movepool as a mixed attacker that allows it to hit things relatively quickly, even if it's frail. The DnD class theme really shines through with these three.
Alola: They're relatively similar here but the second typings definitely save them. Decidueye is a bit faster than both but has Swords Dance and also good Special Attack as a mixed attacker, Incineroar has more oomph on the physical side and is quite bulky unlike Decidueye, while Primarina has a fantastic typing, great Special Attack, and good STABs to be a slow, but powerful special Attacker.
Paldea: The one trio after Gen 8 thus far, and they're already miles ahead of Galar in my book. Meowscarada, true to being an illusionist and trickster, is a fast attacker with a signature move that always scores a critical hit, with other critical hit moves in its arsenal. Skeledirge is a heavyweight bulky special Attacker that takes hits well and hits hard back, and Torch Song can boost its power more. Quaquaval is slower, but hard hitting on the physical side, and can use powerful STABs and good coverage to hit harder.

---

I ranted quite extensively but you get the point. Galar just had no semblance of gameplay flavor with its starter trio to make them particularly distinctive with how to use them in gameplay: while they clearly were designed with human like personalities, the style so vastly outweighs the actual substance that it ultimately does not create for an interesting trio for an in-game playthrough for the starters in this trio. Their G-Max forms aren't really much better, seeing as how their G-Max moves are all the same "160 BP move that bypasses abilities". It just feels like there wasn't a lot of thought put into them and they end up being an extremely bad case of style over substance, where while they're good, the substance is utterly boring.

I think dual-typed starters are usually better than single-typed starters, but I do wanna give props to Galar for going back to single-typed starters, which hasn't been a thing since gen 2. IMO then min-maxed stats were necessary to let these Pokemon stand out from other starters, which innately have an advantage due to being dual-typed.

 

[pika pal]

I think dual-typed starters are usually better than single-typed starters, but I do wanna give props to Galar for going back to single-typed starters, which hasn't been a thing since gen 2. IMO then min-maxed stats were necessary to let these Pokemon stand out from other starters, which innately have an advantage due to being dual-typed.

Delphox giving the fake-est thumbs up with Psychic typing in a Gen that unleashed Knock Off/Ghost Spam

 

[Blue glass]

Spoiler

Something I want to add to the Gen 8 starter-set criticism, it feels like there was supposed to be a theme to them as we saw with some trios like Gen 6 (DnD/Fantasy RPG classes) and now Gen 9 (Performers one would see at a Carnival or other celebration), but they got cold feet with it and now it's neither 3 distinct members nor 3 members with one idea.

Where I see the oddball is Sniper Intelleon. Cinderace is obviously a Football player to match Galar's Sports League references, and Rillaboom my thought would be Audience Goers with big show and instruments for their team in the stands (Team Yell filling a similar niche for Marnie) with the Drum or something akin to Megaphones, Banners, and Vuvuzelas. Then Intelleon is... a secret agent with a Sniper Rifle. Maybe this emerges from me reading too much into Rillaboom, but I can't help but see the Drum as part of its concept when they give it an object instead of going with chest beating as most picture with a large primate like that, and then pattern recognition follows. Maybe Intelleon would have been better as a bird or something talkative to stand-in for the Sports Commentators, or something defensive and with lockdown potential for a Referee?

If they had all just been unrelated on this front I wouldn't bat an eye, like if Intelleon was a detective and Rillaboom was, I don't know, a royal guard or something? But it's so close to having a theme between them that it bothers me how out of place Intelleon is next to the other two fitting one sort of naturally.

Pretty much agreed, but in my opinion the oddball is Rillaboom and the theme is UK references. Inteleon is a James Bond expy, modern football was first codified in Cambridge so Cinderace fits too but a gorilla drummer isn't connected in any way to the UK. Maybe they couldn't choose between them then they decided to go with both themes. In the end they couldn't make it work.