From a game design perspective the Gen 2 starters make more sense for Gen 1 and vice versa.
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
How so? Could you elaborate at all?
Because gen 2 starters are monotyped and gen 1's have two with dual types?
I guess
I mean I met pokemon fans that to this day still tend to think that Rock is immune to Electric, so yeah more single typed pokemon would have helped with that
While I don't have much to say for Charizard, I feel that the Bulbasaur line's second type fits into what I think of for gen 1. The Poison type is massive in RGBY. There's a significant part of me that feels the combat system rode the momentum of gen 1 Poison for a long time and the games are worse for having it finally slow down. Having pokedex number 001 be a Poison type just makes sense to me. Chikorita and its apparent focus on screens might still have led to a great series, but it's not the one that was made.
Series starts off keeping things simple with the starters being single typed, sequel adds some variety and a hint of complexity by having one of of them gain a type and another having a second right from the start.
I get you love Poison and residual damage, but saying that the combat system "rode the momentum of gen 1 Poison" seems nonsensical. Poison may have dominated the Kanto dex numerically, but the vast majority of Poison types were quite weak, with the best ones being good in spite of being Poison (I mean, what did Poison offer defensively in Gen 1? A resistance to Razor Leaf/Mega Drain/Submission?
). The part-Grass ones would have enjoyed an EQ resistance and Tentacruel/Gengar would have much preferred to not be weak to Psychic/EQ.Offensively it was terrible, with only two types it hit super effectively (and it even lost one of these after Gen 1, but we're back up to two again with Fairy) and its best move had 65 BP (this might have been a deliberate choice to highlight the status effect, but...). It kinda had special focus as a status effect, with a normal/strong distinction and the strong version being given to the whole dex, but normal Poison only dealt 1/16 of total health in Gen 1, and Toxic's increasing damage getting removed entirely if the inflected Pokémon was switched out. It stacked with Leech Seed, but that's two turns of doing chip damage that can just be countered by switching. I would argue that the status is possibly the weakest it ever was in Gen 1.
IMO, the huge number of Poison types in Kanto's dex also influenced how many Poison Pokémon we got per generation since. It took until Gen 7 to exceed the total number of Poison types added in Gen 1. That's absurd.
With all that said, Bulbasaur being part Poison is kind of a nice benefit at the start of the game as it's immune to Poison from Poison Sting and thus can avoid the overworld chip damage. I'm not sure if it was a deliberate choice, but it works out pretty well (even if said Poison typing wasn't reflected in its moveset at all).
Hmm... gonna whip out a several opinions at once.
Delta Episode
Devon Corporation building has two monuments in front of it. One resembles a Sun Stone, the other resembles a Moon Stone.
Zinnia had to stop scientists from creating a wormhole that'd transport a meteor to an alternate universe.
You had to tackle the meteor yourself, only to discover an alien creature was inside it.
You are sent to a tropical resort area afterwards, where you find a man with amnesia as result of having fallen from the sky.
Opinion 1: At this point I'm convinced Gamefreak put up a statue of the Battle Tower in ORAS not as a way to mock players, but as a means to foreshadow Anabel's appearance in Sun and Moon. Gen 7 references are shoved all over the Delta Episode and in more places throughout Gen 6. I know generations tend to foreshadow the following generation a bit but ORAS did it far more than usual, as if they knew they planned to release Sun and Moon next. The entire Resort Area in general is one great big foreshadowing of Gen 7.
Opinion 2: Two Kalos follow-up games were discovered as placeholders in Sun and Moon's source code. I don't think this meant they were planning to work on them. There has been no evidence of any work being done for these two games and from Sun and Moon's source code, even all of Zygarde's data was found to be written from scratch, meaning they weren't copy/pasted from a planned game or something in the likes of this. These games could've just been placeholders, just in case they decided they were going to make a full plan on making the games.
Opinion 3: The DidYouKnowGaming? video on Pokemon Z mentioned Gamefreak said they didn't work on Pokemon Z, in order to release ORAS instead, then Sun and Moon next. After looking into ORAS a ton I'm convinced they were the de-facto upper version games of Gen 6. Not Kalos but a different region with Kalos shoved all over it and more. For a remake, ORAS seems to greatly expand on the lore of its generation's debut region, unlike the other remakes. FRLG mildly expanded on Hoenn by adding... some BS postgame quest you had to complete in order for you to even trade with RSE. HGSS mildly expanded on Sinnoh by adding in a Sinjoh ruins event. LGPE brought in Alola formes, Mina, and some weird diagram that implies Necrozma created its universe. BDSP added just about nothing from Galar. ORAS on the other hand? ORAS added just about as many new mega evolutions as XY did, completed the lore on Mega Evolution XY tried to explain, sharply referenced AZ multiple times throughout the postgame episode, and used the letters "A" and "Z" as sharp references to mean beginning and end. They brought a character named Zinnia, with her partner named Aster, A, Z. They had Archie, Matt, Maxie, and Courtney greatly involved in trying to fulfill what was known as Project AZOTH. According to a grunt, the A stood for the beginning, the Z stood for the end. Even the names Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire are an AZ reference, for Alpha is the first letter of the Greek alphabet and Omega is the last letter of the Greek alphabet. I think Gamefreak knew what they were doing here. Zygarde was left to be fleshed out more in the anime, after Gamefreak wrote a dex entry detailing how Zygarde "monitors ecosystems in a cave and reveals its secret power upon disruption". It's sorta exactly what Zygarde ended up doing by the end of the generation, then everything else relevant to the lore really got done. ORAS didn't have a Battle Frontier, but they made Super Secret Bases and legendary encounters absolutely insane, as well as implementing valuable features like DexNav and Soaring Through The Sky.
Opinion 4: If I were to be honest, even with just a Battle Maison, which has 5 different battle modes as is, the rest of the content ORAS has to offer gives it one of the biggest postgames in the series, even with tiny stuff like Super Training, Poke Amie features, Pokemon Contests, on top of Mirage Island exploration, Super Secret Base exploration, the best online interface (and most rewarding player interaction system) in the series, the Vs. Recorder mock battles allowing you to rematch any sort of team possible in the game, and ORAS having some of the best shiny hunting methods in the series, there are very few Pokemon games if any at all that are so versatile with what options you have for the postgame. Black 2 for example, may have raw content, but it's not nearly as versatile, as much of its postgame features are either battle facilities or something reminiscent of a battle facility.
Opinion 5: If Pokemon XY follow-ups were planned to be made, they had to be scrapped well before ORAS. As with the aforementioned statements follow, ORAS does so much to expand its former game for what was supposed to be a remake. Not only that, ORAS shoved literally every single legendary alongside every other Pokémon unable to be found in XY into their game, allowing you to complete the National Pokédex with just X, Y, Omega Ruby, and Alpha Sapphire. I very heavily doubt this would have been the case if they actually planned on releasing Pokemon Z after the release of ORAS, as Gamefreak loves to stretch out all the possible Pokemon you can get in a generation to ALL of their games. They would have left out Pokemon specifically for Pokemon Z, that you would not have been able to get in ORAS otherwise. It's how they work every other upper version game in the series. Maybe it would've been all those Hoopa ring legendaries they would have held back.
Opinion 6: Much of the aforementioned above boils down to this post: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/unpopular-opinions.3530232/page-448#post-9295893. I also forgot to bring up the https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Strange_Souvenir, an item specifically made in Gen 6 to foreshadow Gen 7.
Delta Episode
Devon Corporation building has two monuments in front of it. One resembles a Sun Stone, the other resembles a Moon Stone.
Zinnia had to stop scientists from creating a wormhole that'd transport a meteor to an alternate universe.
You had to tackle the meteor yourself, only to discover an alien creature was inside it.
You are sent to a tropical resort area afterwards, where you find a man with amnesia as result of having fallen from the sky.
Opinion 1: At this point I'm convinced Gamefreak put up a statue of the Battle Tower in ORAS not as a way to mock players, but as a means to foreshadow Anabel's appearance in Sun and Moon. Gen 7 references are shoved all over the Delta Episode and in more places throughout Gen 6. I know generations tend to foreshadow the following generation a bit but ORAS did it far more than usual, as if they knew they planned to release Sun and Moon next. The entire Resort Area in general is one great big foreshadowing of Gen 7.
Opinion 2: Two Kalos follow-up games were discovered as placeholders in Sun and Moon's source code. I don't think this meant they were planning to work on them. There has been no evidence of any work being done for these two games and from Sun and Moon's source code, even all of Zygarde's data was found to be written from scratch, meaning they weren't copy/pasted from a planned game or something in the likes of this. These games could've just been placeholders, just in case they decided they were going to make a full plan on making the games.
Opinion 3: The DidYouKnowGaming? video on Pokemon Z mentioned Gamefreak said they didn't work on Pokemon Z, in order to release ORAS instead, then Sun and Moon next. After looking into ORAS a ton I'm convinced they were the de-facto upper version games of Gen 6. Not Kalos but a different region with Kalos shoved all over it and more. For a remake, ORAS seems to greatly expand on the lore of its generation's debut region, unlike the other remakes. FRLG mildly expanded on Hoenn by adding... some BS postgame quest you had to complete in order for you to even trade with RSE. HGSS mildly expanded on Sinnoh by adding in a Sinjoh ruins event. LGPE brought in Alola formes, Mina, and some weird diagram that implies Necrozma created its universe. BDSP added just about nothing from Galar. ORAS on the other hand? ORAS added just about as many new mega evolutions as XY did, completed the lore on Mega Evolution XY tried to explain, sharply referenced AZ multiple times throughout the postgame episode, and used the letters "A" and "Z" as sharp references to mean beginning and end. They brought a character named Zinnia, with her partner named Aster, A, Z. They had Archie, Matt, Maxie, and Courtney greatly involved in trying to fulfill what was known as Project AZOTH. According to a grunt, the A stood for the beginning, the Z stood for the end. Even the names Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire are an AZ reference, for Alpha is the first letter of the Greek alphabet and Omega is the last letter of the Greek alphabet. I think Gamefreak knew what they were doing here. Zygarde was left to be fleshed out more in the anime, after Gamefreak wrote a dex entry detailing how Zygarde "monitors ecosystems in a cave and reveals its secret power upon disruption". It's sorta exactly what Zygarde ended up doing by the end of the generation, then everything else relevant to the lore really got done. ORAS didn't have a Battle Frontier, but they made Super Secret Bases and legendary encounters absolutely insane, as well as implementing valuable features like DexNav and Soaring Through The Sky.
Opinion 4: If I were to be honest, even with just a Battle Maison, which has 5 different battle modes as is, the rest of the content ORAS has to offer gives it one of the biggest postgames in the series, even with tiny stuff like Super Training, Poke Amie features, Pokemon Contests, on top of Mirage Island exploration, Super Secret Base exploration, the best online interface (and most rewarding player interaction system) in the series, the Vs. Recorder mock battles allowing you to rematch any sort of team possible in the game, and ORAS having some of the best shiny hunting methods in the series, there are very few Pokemon games if any at all that are so versatile with what options you have for the postgame. Black 2 for example, may have raw content, but it's not nearly as versatile, as much of its postgame features are either battle facilities or something reminiscent of a battle facility.
Opinion 5: If Pokemon XY follow-ups were planned to be made, they had to be scrapped well before ORAS. As with the aforementioned statements follow, ORAS does so much to expand its former game for what was supposed to be a remake. Not only that, ORAS shoved literally every single legendary alongside every other Pokémon unable to be found in XY into their game, allowing you to complete the National Pokédex with just X, Y, Omega Ruby, and Alpha Sapphire. I very heavily doubt this would have been the case if they actually planned on releasing Pokemon Z after the release of ORAS, as Gamefreak loves to stretch out all the possible Pokemon you can get in a generation to ALL of their games. They would have left out Pokemon specifically for Pokemon Z, that you would not have been able to get in ORAS otherwise. It's how they work every other upper version game in the series. Maybe it would've been all those Hoopa ring legendaries they would have held back.
Opinion 6: Much of the aforementioned above boils down to this post: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/unpopular-opinions.3530232/page-448#post-9295893. I also forgot to bring up the https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Strange_Souvenir, an item specifically made in Gen 6 to foreshadow Gen 7.
Last edited:
Here's two of mine, not expecting any of them to really be that incredible or weird to anybody.
I absolutely adore the Red and Green Mew sprite.
I get that it's not everybody's cup of tea, but I love how it plays more off of the design inspiration of Mew than later sprites and official artwork. I don't think it's pretty, but I don't think something that's supposed to be the common ancestor of all / most Pokemon will necessarily look pretty. Not saying the newer Mew sprites aren't good, I think they're just as good with some being better, but I just love how much of a little goblin it looks.
Despite Gen 8's many problems, I loved a vast majority of its mons
The Gen 8 games sucked (minus PLA, loved it to death), but SWSH introduced mons that I enjoy. Perrserker, for example, is a mon that I really like. From its Viking inspiration to its unique ability Steely Spirit to its toothy little grin, the chaotic berserker cat's awesome. PLA has a lot of new mons I enjoy too. Sneasler, Ursaluna, Basculegion, Hisui Zorua + Zoroark, and Kleavor to name a few. Not taking any competitive into account, though if I did I would like to mention how much I despised Zacian-C and Shadow Rider in Gen 8. Overall, though, Gen 8's not all bad, even if it's still pretty bad.
There's more I could add but I've turned off my brain and don't feel like typing anything else out.
I absolutely adore the Red and Green Mew sprite.
I get that it's not everybody's cup of tea, but I love how it plays more off of the design inspiration of Mew than later sprites and official artwork. I don't think it's pretty, but I don't think something that's supposed to be the common ancestor of all / most Pokemon will necessarily look pretty. Not saying the newer Mew sprites aren't good, I think they're just as good with some being better, but I just love how much of a little goblin it looks.
Despite Gen 8's many problems, I loved a vast majority of its mons
The Gen 8 games sucked (minus PLA, loved it to death), but SWSH introduced mons that I enjoy. Perrserker, for example, is a mon that I really like. From its Viking inspiration to its unique ability Steely Spirit to its toothy little grin, the chaotic berserker cat's awesome. PLA has a lot of new mons I enjoy too. Sneasler, Ursaluna, Basculegion, Hisui Zorua + Zoroark, and Kleavor to name a few. Not taking any competitive into account, though if I did I would like to mention how much I despised Zacian-C and Shadow Rider in Gen 8. Overall, though, Gen 8's not all bad, even if it's still pretty bad.
There's more I could add but I've turned off my brain and don't feel like typing anything else out.
This came to mind as I was writing about the Kanto starters in another thread and studying up elemental powers/magic, but as time has gone on and we're further removed from SwSh and Gen 8 as a whole, I think I finally realize why I don't like the Galar starters very much. They are relatively boring.
Design wise, they are extremely in-your-face and blatant with how anthropomorphic they are, to the point where it's uncanny. Rillaboom is perhaps the most naturalistic looking of the three, and it's the one I like the most, but the drum is a rather weakly implemented aspect of its design. I actually like anthropomorphic starters and don't mind them: I like them in their own unique way compared to the more animalistic starters from earlier generations, but the Galar trio takes it too far. Cinderace and Inteleon lean a bit too far into the humanoid design to the point where they almost feel like men wearing fursuits. I sort of like their designs individually admittedly, but they are not great together overall.
Gameplay and flavor-wise, they are rather weakly designed in quite a few ways despite being the strongest overall starters in competitive. All three of them are single-typed, with absolutely no second type to add to them. But more importantly, they are functionally extremely homogenous to the point where there is absolutely no distinction between them beyond their actual type and movepools. All three of them are functionally minmaxed with a high offensive stat and good Speed, and a relatively good movepool. Rillaboom is sort of different from the other two in that it's slower and has more bulk and HP, but it's still more or less the same in that it's basically a hard hitting attacker and nothing else, while Cinderace and Inteleon are comparatively both fast and frail hard hitting attackers. Flavor wise their designs don't invite much distinctiveness: they are all entertainment performers that don't really invite distinctive gameplay traits: Rillaboom is a drummer, Cinderace is a football (soccer) player, and Inteleon is a spy/sniper. The style is there, but the substance really isn't, which leads to them being practical, but extremely boring. You are not getting a different experience in SwSh by using any one of them: each one is functionally "hit hard and fast with STAB and coverage".
With other starter trios, you can get a distinct experience using each and every one of them because they were all designed distinctly gameplay-wise in line with their flavor, and thus your experience with the game would differ accordingly.
Kanto: Venusaur is a bulkier, relatively hard hitting Pokemon with limited coverage, but support moves like the powders, Leech Seed, Toxic, and whatnot. Charizard is a glass cannon who is all about hitting hard with attacks and relatively fast. Blastoise is bulkier, and has a mix of defense and offense at its disposal.
Johto: Meganium and Typhlosion are similar to Venusaur and Charizard but Meganium is a tad more defensive than Venusaur and has screens instead of powder moves, offering its own form of support. Typhlosion has distinct movepool differences from Charizard that make it unique in both GSC and HGSS. Feraligatr is the most distinct from Blastoise, being more of a physical attacker in HGSS while GSC Feraligatr is more of an attacker anyway.
Hoenn: Sceptile is fast, and Leaf Blade has a high critical hit ratio. It may not have raw power, but it strikes first and can knock something out quickly. Blaziken is a hard hitting mixed attacker with powerful STABs on both sides, with modest Speed. Swampert is slow and tanky, but can take hits and dish out a lot in return, and boasts an incredible defensive and offensive type combo in Water/Ground.
Sinnoh: Torterra is a slow physical tank, with a good second STAB in Earthquake that hits things Grass cannot quite hard, and has a lot of raw power moves and a few other tricks up its sleeve like Curse and Synthesis. Infernape is a fast mixed attacker, slightly weaker than its predecessor Blaziken but also much faster, and has a wide and varied movepool to go with it, much moreso than Blaziken. Empoleon is also slow, but is specially oriented and boasts a variety of resistances thanks to being part Steel, and has priority in Aqua Jet and decent support tricks up its sleeve combined with a good special movepool.
Unova: Serperior is offensively weak, but fast with good defensive stats. It can boost its power with Coil and heal with Leech Seed, and go for a sweep with boosted Leaf Blade and Return despite abysmal coverage. Emboar is much different from its predecessors, having more HP and being slower but having a lot more raw power, with Flare Blitz/Heat Crash and Hammer Arm for the purpose of hitting like a truck. Samurott has less raw power, but good mixed offensive stats and a colorful movepool on both sides, and has priority or boosting in Swords Dance.
Kalos: Chesnaught is a paladin, and fights like one too: it has great physical endurance, hits hard physically, and can run some defensive tactics like Spiky Shield while having a good offensive movepool filled with strong physical attacks. Delphox is strong on the special side with decent Special Defense, and can hit hard and relatively fast on that end. Greninja is much faster, and has a varied and colorful movepool as a mixed attacker that allows it to hit things relatively quickly, even if it's frail. The DnD class theme really shines through with these three.
Alola: They're relatively similar here but the second typings definitely save them. Decidueye is a bit faster than both but has Swords Dance and also good Special Attack as a mixed attacker, Incineroar has more oomph on the physical side and is quite bulky unlike Decidueye, while Primarina has a fantastic typing, great Special Attack, and good STABs to be a slow, but powerful special Attacker.
Paldea: The one trio after Gen 8 thus far, and they're already miles ahead of Galar in my book. Meowscarada, true to being an illusionist and trickster, is a fast attacker with a signature move that always scores a critical hit, with other critical hit moves in its arsenal. Skeledirge is a heavyweight bulky special Attacker that takes hits well and hits hard back, and Torch Song can boost its power more. Quaquaval is slower, but hard hitting on the physical side, and can use powerful STABs and good coverage to hit harder.
---
I ranted quite extensively but you get the point. Galar just had no semblance of gameplay flavor with its starter trio to make them particularly distinctive with how to use them in gameplay: while they clearly were designed with human like personalities, the style so vastly outweighs the actual substance that it ultimately does not create for an interesting trio for an in-game playthrough for the starters in this trio. Their G-Max forms aren't really much better, seeing as how their G-Max moves are all the same "160 BP move that bypasses abilities". It just feels like there wasn't a lot of thought put into them and they end up being an extremely bad case of style over substance, where while they're good, the substance is utterly boring.
Design wise, they are extremely in-your-face and blatant with how anthropomorphic they are, to the point where it's uncanny. Rillaboom is perhaps the most naturalistic looking of the three, and it's the one I like the most, but the drum is a rather weakly implemented aspect of its design. I actually like anthropomorphic starters and don't mind them: I like them in their own unique way compared to the more animalistic starters from earlier generations, but the Galar trio takes it too far. Cinderace and Inteleon lean a bit too far into the humanoid design to the point where they almost feel like men wearing fursuits. I sort of like their designs individually admittedly, but they are not great together overall.
Gameplay and flavor-wise, they are rather weakly designed in quite a few ways despite being the strongest overall starters in competitive. All three of them are single-typed, with absolutely no second type to add to them. But more importantly, they are functionally extremely homogenous to the point where there is absolutely no distinction between them beyond their actual type and movepools. All three of them are functionally minmaxed with a high offensive stat and good Speed, and a relatively good movepool. Rillaboom is sort of different from the other two in that it's slower and has more bulk and HP, but it's still more or less the same in that it's basically a hard hitting attacker and nothing else, while Cinderace and Inteleon are comparatively both fast and frail hard hitting attackers. Flavor wise their designs don't invite much distinctiveness: they are all entertainment performers that don't really invite distinctive gameplay traits: Rillaboom is a drummer, Cinderace is a football (soccer) player, and Inteleon is a spy/sniper. The style is there, but the substance really isn't, which leads to them being practical, but extremely boring. You are not getting a different experience in SwSh by using any one of them: each one is functionally "hit hard and fast with STAB and coverage".
With other starter trios, you can get a distinct experience using each and every one of them because they were all designed distinctly gameplay-wise in line with their flavor, and thus your experience with the game would differ accordingly.
Kanto: Venusaur is a bulkier, relatively hard hitting Pokemon with limited coverage, but support moves like the powders, Leech Seed, Toxic, and whatnot. Charizard is a glass cannon who is all about hitting hard with attacks and relatively fast. Blastoise is bulkier, and has a mix of defense and offense at its disposal.
Johto: Meganium and Typhlosion are similar to Venusaur and Charizard but Meganium is a tad more defensive than Venusaur and has screens instead of powder moves, offering its own form of support. Typhlosion has distinct movepool differences from Charizard that make it unique in both GSC and HGSS. Feraligatr is the most distinct from Blastoise, being more of a physical attacker in HGSS while GSC Feraligatr is more of an attacker anyway.
Hoenn: Sceptile is fast, and Leaf Blade has a high critical hit ratio. It may not have raw power, but it strikes first and can knock something out quickly. Blaziken is a hard hitting mixed attacker with powerful STABs on both sides, with modest Speed. Swampert is slow and tanky, but can take hits and dish out a lot in return, and boasts an incredible defensive and offensive type combo in Water/Ground.
Sinnoh: Torterra is a slow physical tank, with a good second STAB in Earthquake that hits things Grass cannot quite hard, and has a lot of raw power moves and a few other tricks up its sleeve like Curse and Synthesis. Infernape is a fast mixed attacker, slightly weaker than its predecessor Blaziken but also much faster, and has a wide and varied movepool to go with it, much moreso than Blaziken. Empoleon is also slow, but is specially oriented and boasts a variety of resistances thanks to being part Steel, and has priority in Aqua Jet and decent support tricks up its sleeve combined with a good special movepool.
Unova: Serperior is offensively weak, but fast with good defensive stats. It can boost its power with Coil and heal with Leech Seed, and go for a sweep with boosted Leaf Blade and Return despite abysmal coverage. Emboar is much different from its predecessors, having more HP and being slower but having a lot more raw power, with Flare Blitz/Heat Crash and Hammer Arm for the purpose of hitting like a truck. Samurott has less raw power, but good mixed offensive stats and a colorful movepool on both sides, and has priority or boosting in Swords Dance.
Kalos: Chesnaught is a paladin, and fights like one too: it has great physical endurance, hits hard physically, and can run some defensive tactics like Spiky Shield while having a good offensive movepool filled with strong physical attacks. Delphox is strong on the special side with decent Special Defense, and can hit hard and relatively fast on that end. Greninja is much faster, and has a varied and colorful movepool as a mixed attacker that allows it to hit things relatively quickly, even if it's frail. The DnD class theme really shines through with these three.
Alola: They're relatively similar here but the second typings definitely save them. Decidueye is a bit faster than both but has Swords Dance and also good Special Attack as a mixed attacker, Incineroar has more oomph on the physical side and is quite bulky unlike Decidueye, while Primarina has a fantastic typing, great Special Attack, and good STABs to be a slow, but powerful special Attacker.
Paldea: The one trio after Gen 8 thus far, and they're already miles ahead of Galar in my book. Meowscarada, true to being an illusionist and trickster, is a fast attacker with a signature move that always scores a critical hit, with other critical hit moves in its arsenal. Skeledirge is a heavyweight bulky special Attacker that takes hits well and hits hard back, and Torch Song can boost its power more. Quaquaval is slower, but hard hitting on the physical side, and can use powerful STABs and good coverage to hit harder.
---
I ranted quite extensively but you get the point. Galar just had no semblance of gameplay flavor with its starter trio to make them particularly distinctive with how to use them in gameplay: while they clearly were designed with human like personalities, the style so vastly outweighs the actual substance that it ultimately does not create for an interesting trio for an in-game playthrough for the starters in this trio. Their G-Max forms aren't really much better, seeing as how their G-Max moves are all the same "160 BP move that bypasses abilities". It just feels like there wasn't a lot of thought put into them and they end up being an extremely bad case of style over substance, where while they're good, the substance is utterly boring.
One other thing you’ve brought up that also doesn’t help is how the three of them are just Animal + theme. Rillaboom is just a gorilla who’s a drummer, Cinderace is just a rabbit that plays soccer, Intellion is just a lizard with spy gadgets.
But they aren’t even done well, Rillaboom carries around a drum for some reason instead of using its chest as a drum like how Gorillas do. Cinderace is not even subtle, it’s just a soccer player in every way possible, only thing missing is an animation where it’s holding its knee in pain after being hit. And Intellion just tries to just be James Bond but a scalie without even trying anything with the gadgets outside of the gun and glider.
Compare this to the Gen 9 starters, Skeledirge is a crocodile+a singer sure, but they lean into several different ideas like the day of the dead candy skulls, and have its Microphone be a reference to the Egyptian plover which have a symbiotic relationship with crocodiles. There’s even a possible Persona 3 references with the shiny and the Sun arcana’s story involving a story about a pink alligator and a bird who passed on.
Meowscarada is a stage magician with Jester elements, and it uses that theme pretty well, what with the mask, its outfit, and how it fights using flowers it turns invisible to put in both a show and a way of attacking.
Quaquaval is just everything to do with several different dances from both Spain and Brazil, that being ballet and samba respectively combined with different fighting technique that work like dances all while referencing bird mating rituals that involve a lot of birdy dancing.
They all have an animal+theme thing going on sure, but it’s not just that theme, it’s multiple different themes and ideas going on all at once unlike the Galar starters who just have the one major theme thrown onto an animal without doing anything to make it more interesting. It’s straight up just ctrl+c, ctrl+v and that’s it.
Something I want to add to the Gen 8 starter-set criticism, it feels like there was supposed to be a theme to them as we saw with some trios like Gen 6 (DnD/Fantasy RPG classes) and now Gen 9 (Performers one would see at a Carnival or other celebration), but they got cold feet with it and now it's neither 3 distinct members nor 3 members with one idea.
Where I see the oddball is Sniper Intelleon. Cinderace is obviously a Football player to match Galar's Sports League references, and Rillaboom my thought would be Audience Goers with big show and instruments for their team in the stands (Team Yell filling a similar niche for Marnie) with the Drum or something akin to Megaphones, Banners, and Vuvuzelas. Then Intelleon is... a secret agent with a Sniper Rifle. Maybe this emerges from me reading too much into Rillaboom, but I can't help but see the Drum as part of its concept when they give it an object instead of going with chest beating as most picture with a large primate like that, and then pattern recognition follows. Maybe Intelleon would have been better as a bird or something talkative to stand-in for the Sports Commentators, or something defensive and with lockdown potential for a Referee?
If they had all just been unrelated on this front I wouldn't bat an eye, like if Intelleon was a detective and Rillaboom was, I don't know, a royal guard or something? But it's so close to having a theme between them that it bothers me how out of place Intelleon is next to the other two fitting one sort of naturally.
Where I see the oddball is Sniper Intelleon. Cinderace is obviously a Football player to match Galar's Sports League references, and Rillaboom my thought would be Audience Goers with big show and instruments for their team in the stands (Team Yell filling a similar niche for Marnie) with the Drum or something akin to Megaphones, Banners, and Vuvuzelas. Then Intelleon is... a secret agent with a Sniper Rifle. Maybe this emerges from me reading too much into Rillaboom, but I can't help but see the Drum as part of its concept when they give it an object instead of going with chest beating as most picture with a large primate like that, and then pattern recognition follows. Maybe Intelleon would have been better as a bird or something talkative to stand-in for the Sports Commentators, or something defensive and with lockdown potential for a Referee?
If they had all just been unrelated on this front I wouldn't bat an eye, like if Intelleon was a detective and Rillaboom was, I don't know, a royal guard or something? But it's so close to having a theme between them that it bothers me how out of place Intelleon is next to the other two fitting one sort of naturally.
I think dual-typed starters are usually better than single-typed starters, but I do wanna give props to Galar for going back to single-typed starters, which hasn't been a thing since gen 2. IMO then min-maxed stats were necessary to let these Pokemon stand out from other starters, which innately have an advantage due to being dual-typed.
Delphox giving the fake-est thumbs up with Psychic typing in a Gen that unleashed Knock Off/Ghost Spam
Pretty much agreed, but in my opinion the oddball is Rillaboom and the theme is UK references. Inteleon is a James Bond expy, modern football was first codified in Cambridge so Cinderace fits too but a gorilla drummer isn't connected in any way to the UK. Maybe they couldn't choose between them then they decided to go with both themes. In the end they couldn't make it work.
Last edited:
UK bands are quite prominent in rock and metal’s history (The Beatles, The Who, Iron Maiden just to name some of the more standout examples). Rillaboom is a general homage to the whole Brit Rock Star trope; it absolutely has a mane that wouldn’t be out of place in a Brit rock band.
You know… the more I think about the “style over substance” regarding the Gen 8 starters, the more it reminds me of a similar problem with how Mega Evolution is executed, both in official games and fandom. I will say DMax and GMax are ten times worse about it but that’s not the subject I wanna focus on.
On one hand, Mega Evolution is a super form that can bypass what a natural evolution can do in term of power level, but limited to one per team, is a really nice concept that can shake up a Pokémon‘s role or improve upon it. While the designs are a mixed bag, they do put emphasis on enhancing or intensifying a Pokémon’s important trait, making it more distinct than a natural evolution.
But there is a reason not everyone love Mega Evolution; some even goes as far as hating them as a whole. So where did GF go wrong with Mega Evolution?
Too many to count, and since they were discontinued from mainline games, their flaws become more and more apparant. I will point out some obvious ones:
Not sticking to three-staged Pokémon. Mega Evolution pretty much single-handedly killed what rest of hope regarding traditional cross-gen evolutions, especially since you can still use one Mega Evolution at a time. Gen 4 overdid the cross-evos, but several Pokémon still benefitted it even today, while Mega Evolution implies that cross-gen evos shouldn’t even be a thing anymore as second-stage Pokémon and even single-stage Pokémon receive one regardless of BST.
While it’s obvious that a Pokémon getting both a Mega and a regular evo in the same generation would be ridiculous, it does mean that getting a Mega Evolution have left the low BST two-stage and single-stage Pokémon poorly futureproofed. If Mega Evolution were exclusive to three-stage Pokémon and those two-stage or one-stage with pretty high BST (~490 BST is a reasonable threshold), then Mega Evolution will be more consistent regarding which Pokémon could reasonably receive one without going into a complete gamble.
Treated as a “fix-all” even if it really isn’t. Not all cross-generational evolutions and regional forms improves upon the original. While Mega Evolution was intended to give a boost of popularity to Pokémon thay receive one, only very few managed to stay strong popularity-wise, as there are not a lot of fans who like the Mega Evolution and also liked the original. Execution matters more than you think, so this means that while losing an unappealing Mega Evolutuon is a blessing in disguise compared to being stuck with an unappealing cross-gen or regional form, it is also a complete waste of Mega Stone. Speaking of which..
Mega Stones and the “Item Bloat”. Item bloat is quite inevitable, especially today due to “filler evolution items”, but the Mega Stone also run similar issue since they have to be held by the Pokémon just to make them work. At least Z-Crystals are compatible to any Pokémon thay have a compatible move of matching type (exclusives are mixed bags), while Mega Stones have only one purpose which, while there are good reasons, also means you’ll end up having to collect 20, or even 40 of those stones, even the Mega Evolutions that you hate if you are a completionist. Doesn’t help that most of them are “find them in a shop / hidden in the ground”.
The only way I can think of a “fix” to combat further Item bloat is a G-Max Factor inspiration that make it so Pokémon with “Mega DNA” from their ancestors can Mega Evolve with a Key Stone; not all Pokémon have this potential. The Mega DNA can be removed or given through a Mega Stone, which is now “unspecific”. I won’t tell more to avoid wishlisting.
I don’t really hate the concept of Mega Evolution, in fact I do like it. I just wish that GF try to fixes their issues before they could decide to give Megas another chance, as even putting aside balance issues, there’s these small but important details they need to reconsider. Especially now that cross-gen evos as a concept is back in form, even if limited in case of Hisui’s Ursaluna, Kleavor and Wyrdeer.
On one hand, Mega Evolution is a super form that can bypass what a natural evolution can do in term of power level, but limited to one per team, is a really nice concept that can shake up a Pokémon‘s role or improve upon it. While the designs are a mixed bag, they do put emphasis on enhancing or intensifying a Pokémon’s important trait, making it more distinct than a natural evolution.
But there is a reason not everyone love Mega Evolution; some even goes as far as hating them as a whole. So where did GF go wrong with Mega Evolution?
Too many to count, and since they were discontinued from mainline games, their flaws become more and more apparant. I will point out some obvious ones:
- Given to Pokémon that are already powerful. It were fine if it is done in a way to give them a different role while being somewhat more powerful, as is the case with Mega Gyarados and Mega Garchomp, but then we have Mega Metagross and Mega Salamence who were immense upgrades to the point of unfairness. It even undermine the goal of helping lesser used Pokémon that received Mega Evolution.
- Given to popular Pokémon. No big deal if given to a few if it means for marketing, but they overdid it (less so in ORAS) and it resulted Mega Evolution coming off as more of a marketing stunt than something that can help expend the Pokémon world more than once. Mewtwo and especially Charizard getting two instead of just one were especially blatant example of marketing stunts.
- Undermined back in XY. There’s really no excuse of not allowing the player to collect more than 4 kind of Mega Stone throughout the main game journey, and feels even more shoehorned than it were the case in Hoenn as a result; at least Hoenn and even the anime and mangs did the part to expand on the Mega Evolution part.
Not sticking to three-staged Pokémon. Mega Evolution pretty much single-handedly killed what rest of hope regarding traditional cross-gen evolutions, especially since you can still use one Mega Evolution at a time. Gen 4 overdid the cross-evos, but several Pokémon still benefitted it even today, while Mega Evolution implies that cross-gen evos shouldn’t even be a thing anymore as second-stage Pokémon and even single-stage Pokémon receive one regardless of BST.
While it’s obvious that a Pokémon getting both a Mega and a regular evo in the same generation would be ridiculous, it does mean that getting a Mega Evolution have left the low BST two-stage and single-stage Pokémon poorly futureproofed. If Mega Evolution were exclusive to three-stage Pokémon and those two-stage or one-stage with pretty high BST (~490 BST is a reasonable threshold), then Mega Evolution will be more consistent regarding which Pokémon could reasonably receive one without going into a complete gamble.
Treated as a “fix-all” even if it really isn’t. Not all cross-generational evolutions and regional forms improves upon the original. While Mega Evolution was intended to give a boost of popularity to Pokémon thay receive one, only very few managed to stay strong popularity-wise, as there are not a lot of fans who like the Mega Evolution and also liked the original. Execution matters more than you think, so this means that while losing an unappealing Mega Evolutuon is a blessing in disguise compared to being stuck with an unappealing cross-gen or regional form, it is also a complete waste of Mega Stone. Speaking of which..
Mega Stones and the “Item Bloat”. Item bloat is quite inevitable, especially today due to “filler evolution items”, but the Mega Stone also run similar issue since they have to be held by the Pokémon just to make them work. At least Z-Crystals are compatible to any Pokémon thay have a compatible move of matching type (exclusives are mixed bags), while Mega Stones have only one purpose which, while there are good reasons, also means you’ll end up having to collect 20, or even 40 of those stones, even the Mega Evolutions that you hate if you are a completionist. Doesn’t help that most of them are “find them in a shop / hidden in the ground”.
The only way I can think of a “fix” to combat further Item bloat is a G-Max Factor inspiration that make it so Pokémon with “Mega DNA” from their ancestors can Mega Evolve with a Key Stone; not all Pokémon have this potential. The Mega DNA can be removed or given through a Mega Stone, which is now “unspecific”. I won’t tell more to avoid wishlisting.
I don’t really hate the concept of Mega Evolution, in fact I do like it. I just wish that GF try to fixes their issues before they could decide to give Megas another chance, as even putting aside balance issues, there’s these small but important details they need to reconsider. Especially now that cross-gen evos as a concept is back in form, even if limited in case of Hisui’s Ursaluna, Kleavor and Wyrdeer.
I don't think Megas inherently had those issues by nature so much as active choice. Whereas the future super mechanics are inherently such by nature and tend to skew towards a "rich-get-richer" problem by inherent design, Megas are fine overall, and I don't even dislike them in terms of execution because they did a good job at buffing many Pokemon overall. Even several popular ones who got them still needed them because power creep was getting to them by that point (*ahem* Charizard). I didn't mind Salamence and Metagross getting Megas because the latter was rapidly losing viability starting in Gen 5 and nowadays has fallen off dramatically in competitive anyway, and pseudos getting Megas isn't inherently a bad thing because competitive proves stats aren't everything as not all of them are actually prominent in competitive or remain as such, seeing as how Tyranitar and now Garchomp have started falling off, while the only ones who are doing well at present are Baxcalibur, Dragapult, and Dragonite.
In that sense I would disagree that Megas inherently were style-over-substance, because they have more depth to them and actually put effort into improving the Pokemon who got them individually, even if some could be argued as not necessarily needing them per se.
A real example of style-over-substance in terms of super mechanics is signature Z-Moves and Gigantamax forms, which inherently compete with a more generic version of the mechanic and are in 99% of cases entirely flavor driven with no substance to differentiate them from the generic version of it battle wise: G-Max Forms are entirely differentiated by a different G-Max Move that is literally "same as the generic Max Move but we swapped out the original base effect for a new side effect". Signature Z-Moves were in most cases entirely flavor as well with a few exceptions, those being Kommo-o's Z-Move (omniboost effect that ultimately translated to a new generic signature move for Kommo-o in later games), Mew (can summon Psychic Terrain so that's something of value), and Eevee (stat omniboost even if it doesn't help much).
With that said I do have a few things to address regarding your other points
I think this really depends on your personal preference and perception, but I genuinely doubt Game Freak actually cares about the fact that Megas would hypothetically kill the idea of the mons who received them getting a traditional evolution, because I think they probably wouldn't give those Pokemon traditional evolutions anyway, as much as some fans may not like the idea. Game Freak likes to incorporate personality and their own creative visions into changing Pokemon they've created beforehand, and for every Pokemon that did get a Mega, they felt that a Mega was the ideal step forward to furthering their design in those cases, and that was that.
I don't think it's a matter of "cross-gen evos shouldn't be a thing anymore" considering they went back to them several generations later as we now have things like Annihilape and Kingambit, and the latter incidentally would fall into the category of "didn't really need an evolution per se, but Game Freak had a cool idea of how to further Bisharp's evolutionary line and felt that an evolution in Kingambit was the way to do so creatively speaking", which proves Game Freak
Mega Evolution was simply the approach they wanted to do back when they started doing it, and a "super-transformation that is lore-wise a temporary evolution" that they assigned the mons that did was in their eyes the way they wanted to add onto the lines they did give it to.
Two-stage and single stage Pokemon getting them may seem like a loss to us fans, but to Game Freak that mattered little to them because they felt that a super form was the ideal way to add to them instead of a traditional evolution for their own creative and personal reasons most likely. Sableye and Mawile will probably never get traditional evolutions yes, but I don't think Game Freak would have any intention of giving them one anyway: to them the two likely felt complete as is and a super form was the ideal "upgrade" for them combat wise.
I think while Game Freak does sort of try to keep a sense of competitive balance (mind you, they care about VGC more), they also like the sense of not every Pokémon being created equal. While Megas are absent from the games, I've said it before but I also sorta consider it an extension of Dexit which we all know at this point is clearly a final decision for the games.
We're a battle oriented forum with people who play Pokemon mainly for the battling aspect so obviously opinions on different battle mechanics will differ because to us, a Pokemon's battling capability in competitive is what we care about most, but Game Freak generally likes the concept of flavor. They like worldbuilding in terms of creating Pokemon, and Pokemon is still fundamentally at its core an RPG, with an RPG design in terms of its monsters and the world they live in.
"We always have this base criteria at Game Freak of being able to explain why a certain Pokemon is in the world or why it exists in that world, trying to make it feel believable within the fantasy." - Junichi Masuda
And in general, not everybody is necessarily into Pokemon for competitive/hardcore battling, so while a vocal minority has varying opinions on super mechanics, ultimately lore and what Game Freak feels is most appropriate for a Pokemon's in-universe lore and flavor is what matters to them most when they do things like regional forms, new evolutions, or Megas.
Which is to say, Pokemon who got Megas would never have gotten a traditional evolution to begin with, because Game Freak likely never felt a traditional evolution was the logical way to add something to those Pokemon from a worldbuilding point of view.
---
Pokemon is a *big* franchise with a big fanbase, so naturally there are so many different opinions on things. I've said it before in another thread but whenever you add to something that already exists, not everyone who liked the original is going to like the new addition. It's not exclusive to Megas itself. It's happened with traditional new evolutions and regional forms alike.
Item bloat is probably something that's a pain in terms of coding as time goes on but it's most certainly not an issue in individual games especially since most mainline games from Gen 4 onwards offer unlimited bag space. Game Freak generally likes flavor and specific items to them gives a nice sense of worldbuilding.
Mega Stones have always been part of Mega Evolution's flavor and they probably wouldn't change that. The G-Max Factor parallel idea is also not exactly great especially since Dynamax was specific to Galar and we now know that having G-Max Factor on an individual specimen creates transfer lockout in HOME because those individuals cannot leave SwSh without having it removed (which you need the DLC to do so, another mess). Tera Types were easier to deal with on the other hand, which may create implications for Terastal in the future (namely being just as generic).
---
I rambled quite a lot but had a handful to say. Ultimately I think it's also important to remember that while this is Smogon and thus our opinions are leaned into competitive battle performance, Mega Evolution was in many ways a mix of flavor and substance that worked.
They simply didn't bother to do it afterwards because they had other ideas they wanted to try in later generations, and like with cross-gen evolutions, which stopped for a long time after Gen 4 before being done again with PLA and SV, they can always return to them if they feel they have new ideas for it from a worldbuilding standpoint (which mind you, is one of the more important priorities to them). Megas are something with their own individual traits that incorporate worldbuilding and gameplay.
We're seeing Game Freak's constant shift in creative philosophy even right now: Regional forms were common in Alola, Galar, and Hisui, but SV has dialed back on them a lot, giving them to only two Pokemon, while they tried out convergent species (unrelated new Pokemon who are incredibly similar to their derivative counterparts) and the Paradox Pokemon, which probably aren't going to be expanded on past Gen 9.
In that sense I would disagree that Megas inherently were style-over-substance, because they have more depth to them and actually put effort into improving the Pokemon who got them individually, even if some could be argued as not necessarily needing them per se.
A real example of style-over-substance in terms of super mechanics is signature Z-Moves and Gigantamax forms, which inherently compete with a more generic version of the mechanic and are in 99% of cases entirely flavor driven with no substance to differentiate them from the generic version of it battle wise: G-Max Forms are entirely differentiated by a different G-Max Move that is literally "same as the generic Max Move but we swapped out the original base effect for a new side effect". Signature Z-Moves were in most cases entirely flavor as well with a few exceptions, those being Kommo-o's Z-Move (omniboost effect that ultimately translated to a new generic signature move for Kommo-o in later games), Mew (can summon Psychic Terrain so that's something of value), and Eevee (stat omniboost even if it doesn't help much).
With that said I do have a few things to address regarding your other points
I think this really depends on your personal preference and perception, but I genuinely doubt Game Freak actually cares about the fact that Megas would hypothetically kill the idea of the mons who received them getting a traditional evolution, because I think they probably wouldn't give those Pokemon traditional evolutions anyway, as much as some fans may not like the idea. Game Freak likes to incorporate personality and their own creative visions into changing Pokemon they've created beforehand, and for every Pokemon that did get a Mega, they felt that a Mega was the ideal step forward to furthering their design in those cases, and that was that.
I don't think it's a matter of "cross-gen evos shouldn't be a thing anymore" considering they went back to them several generations later as we now have things like Annihilape and Kingambit, and the latter incidentally would fall into the category of "didn't really need an evolution per se, but Game Freak had a cool idea of how to further Bisharp's evolutionary line and felt that an evolution in Kingambit was the way to do so creatively speaking", which proves Game Freak
Mega Evolution was simply the approach they wanted to do back when they started doing it, and a "super-transformation that is lore-wise a temporary evolution" that they assigned the mons that did was in their eyes the way they wanted to add onto the lines they did give it to.
Two-stage and single stage Pokemon getting them may seem like a loss to us fans, but to Game Freak that mattered little to them because they felt that a super form was the ideal way to add to them instead of a traditional evolution for their own creative and personal reasons most likely. Sableye and Mawile will probably never get traditional evolutions yes, but I don't think Game Freak would have any intention of giving them one anyway: to them the two likely felt complete as is and a super form was the ideal "upgrade" for them combat wise.
I think while Game Freak does sort of try to keep a sense of competitive balance (mind you, they care about VGC more), they also like the sense of not every Pokémon being created equal. While Megas are absent from the games, I've said it before but I also sorta consider it an extension of Dexit which we all know at this point is clearly a final decision for the games.
We're a battle oriented forum with people who play Pokemon mainly for the battling aspect so obviously opinions on different battle mechanics will differ because to us, a Pokemon's battling capability in competitive is what we care about most, but Game Freak generally likes the concept of flavor. They like worldbuilding in terms of creating Pokemon, and Pokemon is still fundamentally at its core an RPG, with an RPG design in terms of its monsters and the world they live in.
"We always have this base criteria at Game Freak of being able to explain why a certain Pokemon is in the world or why it exists in that world, trying to make it feel believable within the fantasy." - Junichi Masuda
And in general, not everybody is necessarily into Pokemon for competitive/hardcore battling, so while a vocal minority has varying opinions on super mechanics, ultimately lore and what Game Freak feels is most appropriate for a Pokemon's in-universe lore and flavor is what matters to them most when they do things like regional forms, new evolutions, or Megas.
Which is to say, Pokemon who got Megas would never have gotten a traditional evolution to begin with, because Game Freak likely never felt a traditional evolution was the logical way to add something to those Pokemon from a worldbuilding point of view.
---
Pokemon is a *big* franchise with a big fanbase, so naturally there are so many different opinions on things. I've said it before in another thread but whenever you add to something that already exists, not everyone who liked the original is going to like the new addition. It's not exclusive to Megas itself. It's happened with traditional new evolutions and regional forms alike.
Item bloat is probably something that's a pain in terms of coding as time goes on but it's most certainly not an issue in individual games especially since most mainline games from Gen 4 onwards offer unlimited bag space. Game Freak generally likes flavor and specific items to them gives a nice sense of worldbuilding.
Mega Stones have always been part of Mega Evolution's flavor and they probably wouldn't change that. The G-Max Factor parallel idea is also not exactly great especially since Dynamax was specific to Galar and we now know that having G-Max Factor on an individual specimen creates transfer lockout in HOME because those individuals cannot leave SwSh without having it removed (which you need the DLC to do so, another mess). Tera Types were easier to deal with on the other hand, which may create implications for Terastal in the future (namely being just as generic).
---
I rambled quite a lot but had a handful to say. Ultimately I think it's also important to remember that while this is Smogon and thus our opinions are leaned into competitive battle performance, Mega Evolution was in many ways a mix of flavor and substance that worked.
They simply didn't bother to do it afterwards because they had other ideas they wanted to try in later generations, and like with cross-gen evolutions, which stopped for a long time after Gen 4 before being done again with PLA and SV, they can always return to them if they feel they have new ideas for it from a worldbuilding standpoint (which mind you, is one of the more important priorities to them). Megas are something with their own individual traits that incorporate worldbuilding and gameplay.
We're seeing Game Freak's constant shift in creative philosophy even right now: Regional forms were common in Alola, Galar, and Hisui, but SV has dialed back on them a lot, giving them to only two Pokemon, while they tried out convergent species (unrelated new Pokemon who are incredibly similar to their derivative counterparts) and the Paradox Pokemon, which probably aren't going to be expanded on past Gen 9.
I also think that Megas don't necessarily lock off an extra evolution stage of a regional form (like several Galarian and Hisuian forms have). Said evolution doesn't need to resemble the mega either if the concepts are already divergent (example: if sableye-# no longer consumes gemstones, Sableye-#2 has no reason to have a giant reflective shield).
I think existance of megas preventing existance of a potential evolved form is just fan theory anyway.
People thought the same about regional forms, but Slowbro did get one.
Plus even were there to be "problematic" cases, since Dexit is a thing, they can just... exclude them.
See Shedinja likely purposedly being excluded from SV due to its potentially gamebreaking interaction with Terastal.
We even have a "precedent" for a situation where a Pokemon gets a supermechanic but its evolution doesn't!
In gen 8, if Pikachu has Gigantamax Factor, it cannot evolve until the Gigantamax factor is removed. Same applies iirc to Eevee.
Thus if some day they wanted to, say, give Mawile a evolution, it doesn't really interfer with Mawile's potential to mega evolve. Mawile2 will simply not be able to mega evolve.
People thought the same about regional forms, but Slowbro did get one.
Plus even were there to be "problematic" cases, since Dexit is a thing, they can just... exclude them.
See Shedinja likely purposedly being excluded from SV due to its potentially gamebreaking interaction with Terastal.
We even have a "precedent" for a situation where a Pokemon gets a supermechanic but its evolution doesn't!
In gen 8, if Pikachu has Gigantamax Factor, it cannot evolve until the Gigantamax factor is removed. Same applies iirc to Eevee.
Thus if some day they wanted to, say, give Mawile a evolution, it doesn't really interfer with Mawile's potential to mega evolve. Mawile2 will simply not be able to mega evolve.
It’s also the case for Meowth regarding G-Max Factor.
Yeah, Slowbro managing to get a Galarian counterpart despite being able to Mega Evolve is a precedence not easy to notice at first.
As long as the evolution do not refer to the Mega Evolution but rather be able to stand on it’s own, by taking to a different niche, and go for more natural progression for worldbuilding, rather than completely replacing it. It’s seems that it’s not something GF is willing to do unless they see an exceptional opportunity for worldbuilding though.
This is from the XY website, and is parroted in various ways here and there. it definitely seems by design that Megas are meant to be something you only get as an end cap.
And it was a thing they stuck to through Gen 6; in contrast GMaxes were never stated to be like this to begin with and that's reflected from GMax Pikachu, Eevee & Meowth being there from the jump.
Contrast with all the little fan theories people had about regional variants. They never said anything like that, it just happened to line up for a small time based on our small sample size.
Now of course, this is all the way back in gen 6. That's 10 years ago! Even within that generation they retconned stuff about megas(definitely did not originate or exclusive to Kalos!), so if they every just really really really wanted to do a Mawile evolution (not even a regional one, just a normal one) they probably could do it just fine and not even acknowledge it. Or have a character go "wow! pokemon are so mysterious!" and be done with it.
But it's not necessarily a thing to lay at the "dumb fan theory" altar is what i mean.
I can see where are you coming from, but a recton (or something close to one) already happened within Gen 6, where it were supposed to happen only in Kalos, but then Hoenn become one home for Mega Evolution too. No changes mechanic-wise, obviously, but it does have clashing lores going on, such as XY claiming that Lucario is the first, only for Rayquaza being the absolute first in ORAS. Granted, it can be dismissed as “cultural / belief differences”.
But if Mega Evolution is suppsoed to be an almighty cap, nothing about that stopped Dynamax from being way more powerful even for three turns and available for LC and NFE Pokémon, and note that in the anime, the Dynamax / Gigantamax Pokémon still have the upper hand against a Mega Evolved Pokémon during the World Tournament. It can be argued as writing faults, but nonetheless it’s something important to point out. At least the following super mechanic in the form of Terastalization isn’t stupidly powerful, just a bit too much of a “surprise” factor.
At the end of the day, that’s up to GF to stick to an unwritten rules or go for the usual “Pokémon are still full of wonders!” route.
I mean....yeah. I acknowledged that at the end of the post. They've retconned before, they can retcon again if it suits their fancy. It's their "rules", they can break them at their leisure.
It was mostly just me wanting to say that it wasnt really a "fan theory" in the same way other "rules" are/were
