Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]

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imo scream tail is way too passive in general, and in the niche of a screen setter, its outclassed by pult which is faster and has access to uturn, curse, will o, and massively better attacking stats if u want to run an attack on ur screen setter (usually ddarts or flamethrower). the only reason to run scream tail is for wish support, but even then alomomola is probably better because of its better typing + regenerator.
 
Delibird Heart said:
imo scream tail is way too passive in general, and in the niche of a screen setter, its outclassed by pult which is faster and has access to uturn, curse, will o, and massively better attacking stats if u want to run an attack on ur screen setter (usually ddarts or flamethrower). the only reason to run scream tail is for wish support, but even then alomomola is probably better because of its better typing + regenerator.
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Can Alomomola run screens as well?
 
yomaalt said:
Well now we gotta find enough eviolite bisharp uses to make it not a "Oh no it keeps pult in check" Mon and instead a OU Mon in itself
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I already went ahead and did that, actually. I made a set that worked pretty damn well.

Froctopus said:
Screw all this King Gambit talk, it seems beaten to death that by removing the ghost resist, the ghosts get better. Now onto the real question, have people looked at using Scream Tail for a screen setter? I don't see a problem with it because of its sheer bulk and speed, as well as access to encore and possibly wish support. The only problem is that you can't really run any attacks because it has the attack stat that is similar to being hit by a ballon sword. But it looks like a good screener/supporter. Am I wrong to think this?
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I've seen it around quite a bit. Even with it's decently high HP, respectable bulk, and decent speed it still lacks. It's just as easy to punish as Grimmsnarl.

Floatstonemafia said:
the only other role bisharp can fill is it's niche against ghost type attackers like dragapult and gholdengo. It's atrociously bad at kingambit's other niche of nigh-unstoppable late game sweeper. Not only does it not get 50% inc damage from supreme overlord, it doesn't even get kowtow claw and has to use night slash (another 12% reduced damage if you can't click sucker punch). Coming off of worse attack (another 8% less damage, man this is adding up), irrelevant speed tier, and worse defensive stats (if you don't use eviolite, which using further reduces it's damage).

So basically it's not worth using except if you really, really need a hard counter to pult and gholdengo.

It's really kind of amazing how carried bisharp was by knock off in hindsight.
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I wholly disagree. While yes, it has less raw threatening power than Gambit, saying that "giving up a damage dealing item for Eviolite is bad" is bad in and of itself. As someone who SWEARS by AV Gambit, the Eviolite build I tried on Bisharp did a lot of work by itself.
 
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Floatstonemafia said:
It's really kind of amazing how carried bisharp was by knock off in hindsight.
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Bisharp also heavily benefited from how Defog used to be utilized specifically by more passive Pokémon due to a combination of distribution and lack of Boots before Gen VIII, the nonexistence of Body Press, and Lando being the godking of OU. There's a lot going against it right now.
 
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Guyoftheego said:
How have y'all been doing with Rotom-W post-HOME? I feel like since HOME dropped and we got Zapdos, Moltres, and Glowking added as effective pivots, Rotom-W has felt way less splashable and way less useful, and typically if I'm building a new team I'll default to Zap where in the past I'd default to Rotom-W.
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I actually like Zapdos and Washtom together! Beyond being pivots, their secondary utility differs quite a bit, with Zapdos providing longevity and punishing contact moves while Washtom offers some combo of protect scouting (a little less useful now than in the early Home meta), Wisp support, and Scarf/Trick shenanigans. They also do a good job of covering each other's weaknesses, and they both have options to get around ground types that want to block Volt Switch.

This is the probably over-tuned Washtom set I've been running:
Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 248 HP / 64 SpA / 80 SpD / 116 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Trick
- Will-O-Wisp

64 SpA guarantees the KO on 252 HP/4SpD Tusk, 116 +Spe outruns Adamant Dragonite so you can Wisp it or trick the scarf even at +1. With scarf, it also has the benefit of out-speeding the common 168 Spe Zama (which creeps +1 Adamant Dragonite) by one because Maths.

Obviously, trying to run a "defensive core" in this meta is a fool's errand, but by letting Washtom take some defensive burden off Zapdos, you're also free to switch some defensive investment into offense. Especially if you opt for Wisp support on Washtom, you can run something like 104 HP / 252 SpA / 152 Spe on Zapdos, making Volt Switch hurt noticeably more.
 
I know I’m late to the argument but all I’m saying is if tera got banned then kingambit could actually stay because it would have counters so then we could keep our dragapult answer. Most of these domino effect arguments are only a thing because of tera. I get tera is fun but I kind of miss being able to use a 4x effective move on something.
 
Delibird Heart said:
nah I meant as a cleric. running screens + wish seems kinda weird on the same set.
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I started looking into Glowking instead cause he's the goat, but I'm stuck between an AV Sludge, Flame, Ice Beam and Future Sight set or a boots set with Chilly Reception

Kinda stuck between the two. Both are viable but I'm looking for suggestions.
 
Wapf said:
I know I’m late to the argument but all I’m saying is if tera got banned then kingambit could actually stay because it would have counters so then we could keep our dragapult answer. Most of these domino effect arguments are only a thing because of tera. I get tera is fun but I kind of miss being able to use a 4x effective move on something.
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Just smack lead Glimmoras with EQ, lmao. It's so free.
Froctopus said:
I started looking into Glowking instead cause he's the goat, but I'm stuck between an AV Sludge, Flame, Ice Beam and Future Sight set or a boots set with Chilly Reception

Kinda stuck between the two. Both are viable but I'm looking for suggestions.
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Use Boots set. Boots Regen gives you the most out of Glowking.
 
ianlazerbeem said:
Literally zero people oppose tera preview. There are zero people who would be upset about it becoming the norm. The only argument that exists against it is "it won't solve all the problems of Tera" which is likely true but is not an obstacle with the alternative being no action. "Blind Tera" is a concept that ONLY exists on Smogon at this point. A suspect is not a necessary prerequisite to adding tera preview, and spending 2 weeks in a suspect where the 2 options are tera preview and no action would be a waste of time and a waste of a suspect, akin to suspecting Flutter Mane or Palafin. We all know unrestricted tera is an issue and we should make the council feel comfortable "quick restricting" this mechanic since this action would be one that no one opposes.

we need tera preview passed as quickly as possible. We can assess from there if more action is necessary, but there is zero reason to not implement tera preview right now.
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I don’t want preview
 
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I’ve started to cool on Tera since I realize that being a broken mechanic you may as well just do it better than your opponent.

Only mon that grinds my gears right now is Garganacl. Gah, that thing.

As for unexplainable good mons- my goodness Volcanion is such a Chad right now. And Big Bird (Zapdos) is still holding it down since Gen 1. Bulky and strong mons rule the tier right now.
 
Froctopus said:
I started looking into Glowking instead cause he's the goat, but I'm stuck between an AV Sludge, Flame, Ice Beam and Future Sight set or a boots set with Chilly Reception

Kinda stuck between the two. Both are viable but I'm looking for suggestions.
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I love the AV set as it makes Glowking less passive but it puts more pressure on removing hazards
 
RaikouLover said:
As for unexplainable good mons- my goodness Volcanion is such a Chad right now. And Big Bird (Zapdos) is still holding it down since Gen 1. Bulky and strong mons rule the tier right now.
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This seems to be Volcanion's pattern. He comes out, barely gets used, then turns into a very strong Mon yet barely makes OU Usage or enough impact to be Meta rather than Anti-Meta.
 
Goodstyle said:
Am I the only one that hates Future Sight Glowking? Way to many instances where I want the damage ASAP, and not having it sucks.
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I mean I guess you can always use Psychic, but I like it because then you can do other things like chilly reception or trick room while you wait. Then regenerator is a kicker to allow you to take the two hits. So it makes the set up turn less passive, in a sense.
 
U-turn, and other free switching moves, suck balls. Volt Switch has a solid counter in ground types, and we all have one, don't lie, but the other moves are free damage as well as switching after the opponent does. I can get Chilly Reception and Teleport since they require you to take a solid hit first, but other than that its a free switch, completely upending the order of the game.
God if only U-Turn was normal or psychic type.
 
DynamaxBestMeta said:
U-turn, and other free switching moves, suck balls. Volt Switch has a solid counter in ground types, and we all have one, don't lie, but the other moves are free damage as well as switching after the opponent does. I can get Chilly Reception and Teleport since they require you to take a solid hit first, but other than that its a free switch, completely upending the order of the game.
God if only U-Turn was normal or psychic type.
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U turn is also punishable due to being a contact move which lets rocky helmet, rough skin, static and flame body mess with it, and given how many hazards are in the meta, getting knocked can make clicking u-turn a death sentence
 
DynamaxBestMeta said:
U-turn, and other free switching moves, suck balls. Volt Switch has a solid counter in ground types, and we all have one, don't lie, but the other moves are free damage as well as switching after the opponent does. I can get Chilly Reception and Teleport since they require you to take a solid hit first, but other than that its a free switch, completely upending the order of the game.
God if only U-Turn was normal or psychic type.
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Fun fact: There are two mons in S/V with Flip Turn.

They're both banned to Ubers. For some reason, Iron Bundle has a physical switch-out move. You know, for all those times where something else outspeeds the bastard.
 
Rootb said:
Fun fact: There are two mons in S/V with Flip Turn.

They're both banned to Ubers. For some reason, Iron Bundle has a physical switch-out move. You know, for all those times where something else outspeeds the bastard.
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it also gets u-turn....................
 
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