Speaking of Zapdos (or at least related birds), I feel like I have not seen Zapdos at ALL on ladder. Is it washed or just underrated? It got nerfed, right?
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]
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Zapdos did get nerfed by losing defog, but other than that it still has a good presence in OU. It can fill both offensive and defensive roles depending on what you want it to do. It also has a positive matchup into the #1 mon in the tier. Im sure you'll see it more because its currently in the top 10 at 16.24% OU usage .
It also lost weather ball, which was a pretty big blow to it on weather teams
zapdos is in its own category. Nothing else really compares to it as a bulky, strong, pivot. Landorus is possibly the closest comparison, ironically, despite it being a ground type. this is because they both soft check a lot of the fighting/ground types in OU, have a pivot move, strong 100+ STAB, and MU well against neutral threats.
landorus performs slightly better when bulk invested due to its matchup against Valiant, zapdos and enamorous. zapdos performs slightly better at max speed timid, due to its ability to OHKO tusk and volt switch on bax.
It’s truly an example of A+ right now, mostly on the back of how reliable it is at shuffling offense and balance teams.
static is a bonus.
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I unironically use it as a Dragon Slayer. You outpace all forms of Pult with it before +1. I think you outpace Jolly Dnite at +1, and you can catch a lot of Pokemon off guard with it.
The funny thing? I don't even use Trick.
You tie with Dragonite, but not using Trick is cursed, what the hell.
What can I say? I'm a fan of Choice 4 Attacks on Pokemon where it's possible.
What four attacks are you using? I've been running with Moonblast, Aura Sphere, and Mystical Fire, and I don't really feel the need for a fourth. Sometimes I want Psychic or Psyshock for Poisons, but that's about it.
My set runs Psychic/Moonblast/Mystical Fire/TBolt on Tera Steel. Tbolt gives good neutral coverage, and allows me to smack Waters/Tera Waters/Flyings with big damage.
I've been playing Pokemon for at least 25+ years and I just learned that Metal Burst, unlike other counter moves, doesn't have negative priority because someone in the 1400 ladder tried to use a Focus Sash Metal Burst Kingambit as a hard counter for my Garganacl for some reason???? (the strategy failed because I was slower than it due to Curse and he went first, meaning Metal Burst did nothing and he got 2HKO with Body Press after breaking his sash).
Low ladder is a terrifying place.
Low ladder is a terrifying place.
Love Gardevoir in theory, and glad it's worked for you, but it's not really a reliable switch-in to any of the dragons except maaaaybe Dragonite unless they're somehow not boosted or don't boost on the switch.
You lose to +1 Dragonite if it's at >55% health and in position to click Tera Normal. Even if you play the prediction game perfectly (stay fairy type turn one, click Tera Steel turn 2), EQ -> Espeed KOs even through a traced multiscale. If you've already spent your tera and have any chip to break multiscale, +1 Tera Normal ESpeed is just a OHKO.
If Dragonite doesn't/can't click Tera Normal, then it's all a big guessing game depending on other game states. If Dragonite has multiscale, then you need to click Tera Steel or else get 2HKOed by Espeed even through your traced multiscale. If Dragonite has multiscale and you don't, then they just DD again and KO with EQ whether or not you click Tera (this is where Trick is useful). If Dragonite *doesn't* have multiscale, then things are obviously simpler: If Garde has multiscale, you click Moonblast. If it doesn't, you click Tera Steel, too.
Obviously, this all gets upended if Dragonite is Tera Fire.
Bax outspeeds at +1 and can KO with EQ whether or not you click tera if hazards are up. Against SD variants, you need to hope they're not running (and/or don't click) Tera Ice, otherwise they'll 2HKO even Tera Steel Garde 94% of the time with Ice Shard, even without hazards (100% if Adamant).
Roaring Moon KO's with +1 Crunch even without Booster Energy, so you're banking on them assuming Tera Fairy and clicking Acro into your Tera Steel, but they still win that exchange if they also click the funny button to turn into a Flying type.
You do revenge/force out non-DD versions of Pult, which isn't nothing.
As the guy who still runs Iron Hands on 80% of his teams, I definitely get the desire to use lesser-used or more fun `mons (Trace shenanigans are undeniably fun), but Enamorus is just such a better Fairy-type Scarfer in most cases, even if all of the dragons also have ways around it.
Also, not running Healing Wish is the bigger travesty than not running Trick, IMO. So many big hitters running around that appreciate a second lease on life.
Scarf Gardevoir on ladder do be hitting different though. Can 1v1 some big threats like Tusk, Iron Valiant, etc. The extra spdef + Trace do make a difference in some mus compared to Valiant. However, I suspect it's worse now than pre-home since the sets it preyed on like Specs Valiant are less common + Enamorous is stronger and faster (tho no Sr weakness is nice).
Yeah it losing defog DID hurt him but imo its still a menace.
I have never used one before this generation but the amount of pressure it applies to enemy teams is palpable whenever I slot him in. A Paralysis spreading machine that is bulky and hits hard (it also checks non-Ice Spinner Tusk very well if Hurricane doesn't miss.) Very solid mon.
I think I played someone without focus sash on kingambit so i just set up and 6-0'd their entire team.
Hopping threads as it's straying off topic in the tera thread.
Which is the ban, then: Jirachi, Iron Head/(other 30% flinch moves), or Serene Grace?
If it's the flinch moves, we've got a problem - there's a lot of good physical steel moves, but only Iron Head has good distribution. Corviknight would be left with Metal Claw (50 BP), Iron Treads would have Smart Strike (70 BP), and Kingambit has Metal Claw (50 BP). Now, admittedly Corv running steel STAB would be a specific anti-fairy tech, but Treads being able to smack fairies is one if its big advantages over Tusk, and Iron Head's flinch chance makes it a much better move than Smart Strike.
If it's Jirachi, what is the 'competitive value' reason to ban the mon and not the ability enabling it?
If it's Serene Grace, what about other RNG-reliant abilities? Sure, stuff like Static and Flame Body have counterplay in not using contact moves, but flinch has counterplay in Inner Focus and Covert Cloak, and we're not making a judgement based on what's good, just what's "competitive."
Also, Stench exists. It's not good and it's not on any good mons, but it exists, so we'd need to ban that, too.
Or...we can just relax and accept that there's a lot of RNG, the management of RNG Is a key skill in Pokemon, and only take action when it's powerful enough to be a problem - like King's Rock was w/r/t Cloyster (though I maintain it should have been a Cloyster ban).
the difference is that serene grace robs the opponent of agency with enough consistency to be very strong but not enough consistency to confidently base plays around it, whereas every other rng element you mentioned doesn't do that.
beyond its strength and uncompetitiveness, serene grace is also annoying as fuck, which generally shouldn't factor into tiering action but absolutely should be taken into consideration in rng-related matters.
jirachi is also one of the biggest targets of tiering action in formats where it finds itself relevant—it's had suspect or quickban votes against it (sometimes successful, sometimes not) in gen 6 and 7 dou, gen 7 and 8 1v1, gen 8 uu and natdex uu, and probably more that i'm not thinking of, and had a significant hand in the expansion of freeze clause into gens 3 and 4. something about it is inherently problematic, and we both know what that is—it's the same element that caused the only unanimous ban vote in suspect-test history, against skymin in gen 4
This is all well and dandy, but we're still just being hypothetical here. Currently, jirachi is NOT avaliable in SV, so this whole argument is nothing but spectulation about something that has never actually been a problem in current gen OU. if it were a legitimate problem in OU, that would be different. But I feel we've used this topic up now
So
What is the scariest mon to face at team preview at the moment for yall? like, apart from gambit
Personally, at the moment, I hate dealing with dnite cause espeed goes hard
So
What is the scariest mon to face at team preview at the moment for yall? like, apart from gambit
Personally, at the moment, I hate dealing with dnite cause espeed goes hard
Aside from Kingambit, I'd say easily Valiant.
The fact that this androgynous murder android can run a wild variety of sets with an incredible offensive profile always makes me sweat. If one of my teams doesn't have a check for the correct Valiant set in front of me its almost always GG.
The fact that this androgynous murder android can run a wild variety of sets with an incredible offensive profile always makes me sweat. If one of my teams doesn't have a check for the correct Valiant set in front of me its almost always GG.
Yup, this is all true. But it all depends upon how it's played and what the field is like. Not every Dnite I run into is boots, so a handful end up coming in chipped from SR. However, +1 ESpeed TN Dnite vs Tera Steel Multiscale 0 HP/4 Def Garde is a 3HKO most times.
+1 252+ Atk Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Tera Steel Gardevoir: 78-91 (28.1 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 252+ Atk Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tera Steel Gardevoir: 156-183 (56.3 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Adamant Calcs, does less if Jolly.)
Bax is an annoyance for sure, but that MU is usually left to Dirge unless they already burned Tera on something other than the Bax. Then Tera Steel Garde sort of dookies on most Baxes. Roaring Moon without Scarf/Proto: Speed or +1 from DD dies to Garde if it doesn't Tera. Tera Flying tends to take big hits from Tbolt.
Also a lot of the time I tend to VoltTurn into Garde rather than hard switch where I can. No Healing Wish doesn't bother me at all, as I'd rather push for extra damage over passing a heal. I play the game weirdly, don't mind me.
I've seen the opposite, actually. My Garde's stonks have gone up due to being able to delete some of the import mons just from Scarf going brr. But obviously I don't always rely on good ol' GardeMommy full time. She needs help putting the toddlers to bed, lmao.
Dragonite or Bulky Tera Water set up mons (Garg, Tusk, Hatt, etc.) for sure. Dragonite is annoying af and a case study as to why Tera is so cot damn annoying. The versatility is annoying too; we can expect ESpeed then it Encores you. Also, your opponent gets to choose when to dispense with its 4Xs Ice weakness, further limiting counterplay. I’ve softened on Tera a bit, but it just makes countering some of these mons a total pain in the ass. What am I supposed to do when Hatt CMs, then becomes a Water type when I try to whack it with Iron Head?
In the immortal words of Worf.
"Die."
"Die."
Valiant for sure. There are 500 viable sets that it can run and it’s somehow always running the one that 6-0s my team
scariest? probably valiant, you can never properly prepare for that thing even if you properly prepare for it. hoopa-u is also pretty unnerving because it's not always obvious whether it's physical, special, or mixed, and by the time you find out, whoops, half your team is gone, but it's at least slow enough to be dealt with. h-zoro is another honorable mention because when i see it, it means there are three types of moves i can't click confidently until the illusion is broken. also, generally, seeing a lower-tier mon outside of low/low-mid ladder is scary because it means the person using it probably knows how to pilot it and it'll probably work some fucked-up anti-meta magic. it's even scarier during a suspect test because i can't get a general idea of how good the person is based on ladder positioning anymore, it might be someone in top 20 grinding for reqs for all i know.
the mon i dislike seeing on preview the most, on the other hand, is a tie between pawmot and rabsca. any time i see one of those two, i'm not scared of them, but i know my opponent's gonna try some cheese revival blessing bullshit that i'll have to dance around the whole time they're out and probably involves leppa berry somehow. it's not stressful, but it's exhausting
Hello, first time poster here. Been playing 'mons for like the last 3 or so years but found Smogon around the start of SV
Anyway, I've been using this rain team for the last few days and I thought I would share it (The team is here). Its found lots of success on ladder and I thought I might want to make an RMT around it, so any feedback or replays with the team would be cool.
Some initial replays of the team in action (YeatAficionado is my alt):
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1910128436
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1910133810
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1910139392
Anyway, I've been using this rain team for the last few days and I thought I would share it (The team is here). Its found lots of success on ladder and I thought I might want to make an RMT around it, so any feedback or replays with the team would be cool.
Some initial replays of the team in action (YeatAficionado is my alt):
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1910128436
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1910133810
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1910139392
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