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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
- Status
https://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/pokemon-scarlet-violet.722/
I'm not tryna be an ass (that's a bonus lol), it's just that I finally got enough experience to at least somewhat hold my end of a convo in this meta, and now the place where I'm supposed to discuss it has been terastallized into something ive seen the mods take action against.
Remember all that speculation about Eiree Spell? Such a badass move if we believed the "educated guesses" only for that move to literally (quite literally) never be used on it. Turns out the actual details weren't what we were suspecting.
Another really epic troll was curious medicine. Only hazing your allies and not the opponent on switch in. Gen 5 defog vibes
And Glowing found that so funny, he tells the joke every time to our face, then braces for the chilly reception it'll inevitably receive
Yeah that's what I expect the stats to look like.
If Iron Crown gets good coverage, we essentially get special mega metagross jr, which would be cool to have a steel that doesn't fear tusk. But I think Iron crown being OU is pretty much coverage dependent
Its a Psychic type, so its almost guaranteed to get Focus Blast and Calm Mind. Booster Energy (Speed) + Calm Mind seems pretty ideal.
I can see Crown's main problems that its either weak to damn near all of the top OU mons or they resist or are outright immune to its STABS; Kingambit, Hisui-Samurott, Dragapult, Cinderace and Ting-Lu and Focus Blast is hella unreliable.
Well its still has Cobalion's Steel typing, and those usually aren't specially defensive, so I figured it'd either have 104 or 108 Def, and since Leaves already has 104 Speed, 108 lets Crown stand out from it.
Yeah, I'm hoping it gets aura sphere (Which seems decently likely), which might make it good enough to hang around in OU..
Aura sphere helps it deal with a lot of the stuff that could give it issues.
To pivot back to the current Metagame, I find it interesting the Valiant has shifted to running this Booster Energy SD set over the specs set that defined it in the past. Compared to Specs, this set requires a bit more brainpower to use since you have to time when to send it to make the best use of its Booster Energy, but it has some really nice tools to compensate. Encore is amazing in a setup heavy metagame and lets it turn the tables Pokemon like Kingambit, Garganacl, etc. that use the wrong move at the wrong time. That being said, in some positions, there is a 50/50 on whether or not the opponent switches out, which makes the choice between using Encore or SD difficult. Overall a pretty good set, esp in the hands of a good player.
SD Tera Dark Samurott-H is a set I've been messing around with and it can be kinda fun. Its really cool that it sets up its own Spikes, which makes answering it progressively harder, since those Spikes it sets up puts the opponent in KO range of its Sucker Punch. Also gets around random Sash users that might stop it. My main issue is that it has a lot of options it wants to run in the last slot, whether it be Aqua Cutter, Sacred Sword, Encore, etc.
SD Tera Dark Samurott-H is a set I've been messing around with and it can be kinda fun. Its really cool that it sets up its own Spikes, which makes answering it progressively harder, since those Spikes it sets up puts the opponent in KO range of its Sucker Punch. Also gets around random Sash users that might stop it. My main issue is that it has a lot of options it wants to run in the last slot, whether it be Aqua Cutter, Sacred Sword, Encore, etc.
I doubt it'll get Aura Sphere even though it would be perfect for it. That move has never had the most widespread distribution; only two Pokemon outside of Legendries and Mythicals learn it by level up, and even as a TM, it still doesn't have much distribution.
Let's talk about some miscellaneous meta things, this forum is in the shit, so of course its my turn to save it by putting random shit together and calling it a day, so yeah, I'm just gonna talk about things I have been using and seeing
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Sun has been one of the most impactful playstyles across the generation, thanks to the Paradox past mons, nowadays, the play style has been on a dire state due to glowking, which is one of the most important mons in the current tier, its pivot move, unleashes snow, which fucks over the weather, and with tera water, shits on Walking Wake, a Pokémon mandatory in these teams. There's also new mons like samu-h, zapdos, etc. So with that in mind, let's see how some of the most prominent players have adapted to it
1) Fuck it, we absolutely ball wake
Walking Wake @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Steam
- Flamethrower
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
While the speed loss is big, the power increase is beyond surreal
252 SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar in Sun: 252-297 (63.9 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and if glowking can't tank this shit, who can? Nobody
2) Hatterene out,
in: , while not a cute mon, and with a good amount of flaws, has an insane amount of upsides to the teams, it has spore, set up moves, sucker punch, and dark stab, allowing it to crunch away stall and samu-h, which is a massive problem for sun due to countering tusk. Since Hat lost its niche to deflect hazards, might as well replace it, It's still a good mon, but it's on the more niche side
Here is Lily fighting in Wcup and showcasing some of these things https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-709636
On a more personal standpoint, I have been using Sun
Heatran @ Leftovers / Air Ballon / Wide Lens
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Solar Beam
This mon in sun is a fucking nuke, let me show you something
252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu in Sun: 153-181 (29.7 - 35.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery and trapping damage
Literally 3HKOS Ting Lu, and wait, that's not all
252 SpA Tera Grass Heatran Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 246-290 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- 32.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Magma Storm + Solar Beam leaves Ting Lu literally in red numbers, of course this goes to shit if Magma Storm misses, but that's why I have been using Wide Lens, you now have an 80% acc instead of a 75%, which, while not guaranteed, it feels so much better
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On another topic completely, I have been using a combo of
and 
Noivern (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Boomburst
- Hurricane
- U-turn
Dragapult (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Darts
- Phantom Force
- Sucker Punch
- U-turn
While Noivern as an offensive mon is 100% outclassed by dragapult in every regard, using them together has been real fun, Noivern allows you to run physical Dragapult, which can be game winning against the right team, both have U-turn and Dragon Stab, but I have decided to complement each other with unique tools both have, Dragapult has Sucker Punch and Ghost stab, both very important in this meta, and Noivern has Hurricane and Boomburts, the former ensures fighting types gets fucked, while the ladder is a fun tool to spam when unsuspecting, also just look at this
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Noivern Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 189-223 (47.9 - 56.5%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
It forces tera normal but fuck it this is so fucking fun lmao
With Infiltrator and attacking from both sides, both shit on sub happy mons like lando and bax while keeping momentum and damage, not the best thing, but it's fun
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A final thing I want to talk about, is some of the
sightings we have been seeing in the world cup, while a straight-up dog shit mon in almost every regard, it has one thing going for it, Aurora Veil, which combined with Snow, allows baxcalibur to do this
252 Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Baxcalibur in Snow with an ally's Aurora Veil: 211-249 (56.8 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Baxcalibur in Snow with an ally's Aurora Veil: 315-372 (84.9 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Baxcalibur in Snow on a critical hit: 298-352 (80.3 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Mystic Water Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Baxcalibur in Snow on a critical hit: 207-243 (55.7 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
While I don't think Baxcalibur is broken per se, I would love to see a suspect about it just so we can use Blue Sky Rhapsody, come on people, it's literally Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid
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Sun has been one of the most impactful playstyles across the generation, thanks to the Paradox past mons, nowadays, the play style has been on a dire state due to glowking, which is one of the most important mons in the current tier, its pivot move, unleashes snow, which fucks over the weather, and with tera water, shits on Walking Wake, a Pokémon mandatory in these teams. There's also new mons like samu-h, zapdos, etc. So with that in mind, let's see how some of the most prominent players have adapted to it
1) Fuck it, we absolutely ball wake
Walking Wake @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Steam
- Flamethrower
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
While the speed loss is big, the power increase is beyond surreal
252 SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar in Sun: 252-297 (63.9 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and if glowking can't tank this shit, who can? Nobody
2) Hatterene out,
in: , while not a cute mon, and with a good amount of flaws, has an insane amount of upsides to the teams, it has spore, set up moves, sucker punch, and dark stab, allowing it to crunch away stall and samu-h, which is a massive problem for sun due to countering tusk. Since Hat lost its niche to deflect hazards, might as well replace it, It's still a good mon, but it's on the more niche sideHere is Lily fighting in Wcup and showcasing some of these things https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-709636
On a more personal standpoint, I have been using Sun
Heatran @ Leftovers / Air Ballon / Wide Lens
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Solar Beam
This mon in sun is a fucking nuke, let me show you something
252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu in Sun: 153-181 (29.7 - 35.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery and trapping damage
Literally 3HKOS Ting Lu, and wait, that's not all
252 SpA Tera Grass Heatran Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 246-290 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- 32.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Magma Storm + Solar Beam leaves Ting Lu literally in red numbers, of course this goes to shit if Magma Storm misses, but that's why I have been using Wide Lens, you now have an 80% acc instead of a 75%, which, while not guaranteed, it feels so much better
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On another topic completely, I have been using a combo of
and Noivern (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Boomburst
- Hurricane
- U-turn
Dragapult (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Darts
- Phantom Force
- Sucker Punch
- U-turn
While Noivern as an offensive mon is 100% outclassed by dragapult in every regard, using them together has been real fun, Noivern allows you to run physical Dragapult, which can be game winning against the right team, both have U-turn and Dragon Stab, but I have decided to complement each other with unique tools both have, Dragapult has Sucker Punch and Ghost stab, both very important in this meta, and Noivern has Hurricane and Boomburts, the former ensures fighting types gets fucked, while the ladder is a fun tool to spam when unsuspecting, also just look at this
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Noivern Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 189-223 (47.9 - 56.5%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
It forces tera normal but fuck it this is so fucking fun lmao
With Infiltrator and attacking from both sides, both shit on sub happy mons like lando and bax while keeping momentum and damage, not the best thing, but it's fun
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A final thing I want to talk about, is some of the
sightings we have been seeing in the world cup, while a straight-up dog shit mon in almost every regard, it has one thing going for it, Aurora Veil, which combined with Snow, allows baxcalibur to do this252 Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Baxcalibur in Snow with an ally's Aurora Veil: 211-249 (56.8 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Baxcalibur in Snow with an ally's Aurora Veil: 315-372 (84.9 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Baxcalibur in Snow on a critical hit: 298-352 (80.3 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Mystic Water Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Baxcalibur in Snow on a critical hit: 207-243 (55.7 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
While I don't think Baxcalibur is broken per se, I would love to see a suspect about it just so we can use Blue Sky Rhapsody, come on people, it's literally Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid
Marry me.
On a less creepy note, on the lower end of the elo spectrum, I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of Valiant. It's terrifying sonce I have no idea what's gonna happen - do I burn it, or switch to my Assault Vest?
Valiant is my test as a player. I could slap a Toxapex or Donzo, but they're starting to feel like a crutch for me rather than actual tools.
I suspect a major part of the reason Iron Valiant have shifted away from Specs, is that it's outcompeted by Enamorus... is what I would have said, before I double checked and saw that Enamorus is actually 10 base Speed slower. Still, Enamorus has 15 more base SpA, so maybe that's what really matters.
On another topic completely, I have been using a combo of
Noivern (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Boomburst
- Hurricane
- U-turn
Dragapult (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Darts
- Phantom Force
- Sucker Punch
- U-turn
While Noivern as an offensive mon is 100% outclassed by dragapult in every regard, using them together has been real fun, Noivern allows you to run physical Dragapult, which can be game winning against the right team, both have U-turn and Dragon Stab, but I have decided to complement each other with unique tools both have, Dragapult has Sucker Punch and Ghost stab, both very important in this meta, and Noivern has Hurricane and Boomburts, the former ensures fighting types gets fucked, while the ladder is a fun tool to spam when unsuspecting, also just look at this
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Noivern Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 189-223 (47.9 - 56.5%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
It forces tera normal but fuck it this is so fucking fun lmao
With Infiltrator and attacking from both sides, both shit on sub happy mons like lando and bax while keeping momentum and damage, not the best thing, but it's fun
You know, while I was experimenting with Noivern, it never really occurred to me to use it with Dragapult. I know going from Hurricane to Air Slash represents a big drop in power, but are there any key OHKOs or 2HKOs you lose from it?
I really like the mixed variant of that Valiant set that uses CC Moonblast Encore and Destiny Bond, it's in the sample team that also has Booster 3 Attacks Tusk and it's such a good mid game Mon. Has the tools to take out literally anything (at the expense of its life usually) to set up whatever wincon you want
game freak, unoriginal? perish the thought! they would never do something like that! they'll stick to perfectly original ideas, like "existing pokemon but robot" and "existing pokemon but dinosaur"
I don't know if I'd say Valiant used to be 'defined' by its specs set, because while it was amazing pre-HOME, I feel like I used to see Booster CM, Booster mixed 4 attacks a lot more with the occasional SD and scarf thrown in. I feel like Valiant used to run way more varied sets back then, but it could just be me.
But yeah SD tera Dark is really good in the current meta, I've also used Mixed Scarf and Calm Mind encore to some good success but SD is by far its best set.
Ok this is something very important to discuss I think.
Right now the state of the metagame is crazy many ou staples like ttar, garchomp, lando-t, heatran, and others have fallen a lot during this generation the reason I think is the combination of Tera and power creep.
Some Pokémon who have been good the last 8 generations and this one sadly only includes zapdos to my knowledge there might be others but zapdos is the oldest, but right now with the new announcements for the new scarlet and violet dlc and the leaked Pokémon scare me especially with the new Tera type this might be crazier then the gen 5 metagame.
So I want to see all of your guys opinions on the new dlc and Pokémon and the state of the metagame and how this could be fixed
Right now the state of the metagame is crazy many ou staples like ttar, garchomp, lando-t, heatran, and others have fallen a lot during this generation the reason I think is the combination of Tera and power creep.
Some Pokémon who have been good the last 8 generations and this one sadly only includes zapdos to my knowledge there might be others but zapdos is the oldest, but right now with the new announcements for the new scarlet and violet dlc and the leaked Pokémon scare me especially with the new Tera type this might be crazier then the gen 5 metagame.
So I want to see all of your guys opinions on the new dlc and Pokémon and the state of the metagame and how this could be fixed
I feel like this meta is kinda ok? I've been hovering around 1600 playing with a variety of balance and gimmick teams and it's been pretty fun. There's good variety in the meta without being a clusterfuck, and some really great role compression mons in e.g. tusk/treads. Someone who really despises this meta, can you explain what it is about it that you hate? I would expect people to like it, in my experience some of my favorite defensive metagames like gen6 and gen8 are widely disliked.
Tera Dark being increasingly used instead of fighting/fairy on valliant is a change I really didn't expect, but it works pretty well to give knock that extra oomph I guess.
I feel like Dozo is slept on as a setup sweeper. Get rid of the special breakers and very few things can stop rest+curse+liquidation+coverage once it gets going. Takes a bit of positioning awareness and gamesense to use well, but it really puts in the work.
Tera grass heatran is a huge sleeper pick and I always try to make sure I have strong fighting type coverage for it, because otherwise it can be quite hard to break depending on matchup.
Tera Dark being increasingly used instead of fighting/fairy on valliant is a change I really didn't expect, but it works pretty well to give knock that extra oomph I guess.
I feel like Dozo is slept on as a setup sweeper. Get rid of the special breakers and very few things can stop rest+curse+liquidation+coverage once it gets going. Takes a bit of positioning awareness and gamesense to use well, but it really puts in the work.
Tera grass heatran is a huge sleeper pick and I always try to make sure I have strong fighting type coverage for it, because otherwise it can be quite hard to break depending on matchup.
I think the bigger issue is that most Pokemon were significantly nerfed in the transition to Scarlet and Violet due to losing their transfer moves.
If Landorus-T could use Knock Off, Defog, and Toxic, then it would be unquestionably better than Tusk because of its Spikes Immunity and being able to make similar progress vs its common switch-ins with Knock Off / Toxic. However, because it lost all these options, Tusks largely outshines it, as its able to compress way more utility in a single slot. Lando-T still has a niche thanks to its pivoting capabilities and Spikes immunity, but its match-up spread and reward are both significantly worse as a result of losing key options it had before. It also runs into a lot of MUs where it will just never make any progress in without burning Tera.
Most returning Pokemon suffer similar issues to Landorus-T. Losing moves like Toxic, Knock Off, and Defog leads to many of the old Pokemon having less utility and running into far more roadblocks than they did last generation. Heatran losing Toxic gives it a far more difficult time 1v1ing bulky waters that it use to destroy last gen w/ its passive damage. Tornadus-T has to rely on innaccurate moves compared to the standard Knock Off it use to run, which was guarenteed to make Progress on anything that switched in. Blissey has less Softboiled PP and is forced to rely on Seismic Toss to make any progress, which is far more exploitable than Toxic stalling.
Unless the DLC increases distribution of moves like Defog, I don't see these issues being fixed, since most of the returning Pokemon will suffer from the exact same problems.
tbh i like seeing new faces in ou, so i dont mind ttar, chomp and co dropping tiers and in viability
Are you sure because many of these "blatantly broken offensive Pokémon" have been banned and this toxic archetype still exists, and its benefactors include otherwise-unviable Pokémon like Ursaluna and Iron Hands, as well as the more typically run Cresselia, Sneasler, Booster Tusk, literally any setup sweeper will do great on screens... "every single setup sweeper is broken and should be banned" is really an absurd claim to make. Tera and Light Clay both are what enables this cheese style.
The light Clay problem and the Tera problem both have the same "it's totally balanced just ban the broken abusers" fallacy with new "broken abusers" constantly rising to replace the old. If this weren't the case the play style would have died out when Volcarona, Urshifu, and Magearna were banned, instead we see Azumarill teams, Cresselia teams, should we really ban 2 dozen setup sweepers to balance light Clay or just get rid of light clay?
Light Clay isn’t a problem and hasn’t been a problem since its introduction in Gen 4.
We rarely ever saw screens being used until Gen 6, and that was because that generation and beyond gained better screen setters and better setup sweepers. Its safe to assume that its the abusers, but even then, you never hear ppl complain about Ursa, Tusks, or FUCKING IRON HANDS in this metagame. Screens isn’t pushing them to broken levels. The reason Light Clay was banned in the lower tiers is cause the lower power level makes screens stronger. Gen 9 has heavy power creep and Pult who ignores screens (and also ironically can set them up). Mag, Volc, and Urshifu were broken without screens.
the closer and more ominously the specter of alolan ninetales looms over the meta, the more i agree with the "ban light clay" crowd, but let's not pretend this will be the silver bullet that solves the ho problem. screens seem like they'd be a problematic archetype in the current environment even without the extra 12 million turns that light clay adds. the recent success of a fucking meme team with a screen setter slapped on makes me think that screens themselves are the problem
variety in this metagame is the last aspect i see, a metagame like adv ou has so much viable playstyles and deepness https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...-a-data-driven-approach.3654874/#post-8242663
without the upcoming dlc this meta was going to being close to the level of rby ou, i can't say gsc since i never learned it
the only new things are moltres and zapdos being back from the dead thanks to the typing, the fact they can spam status and so much pokemons losing knock off and frosmoth being cheap version of volc
imagine a guide like the one for adv made for sv ou:
1 play offense or hyper offense
2 screens? why not we have a 142 base speed as setter
3 play hazards, your opponent can't remove them + play dengo just to be sure, he can be a breaker or speed + trick + status absorber
4 put gambit in ANY team in case you fuck up for trying to reverse sweep
5 since your opponent will also have gambit, put 2 hard checks at least + one pokemon with encore/wow
6 remember to play bax or anything viable at the moment that gets free setup thanks to tera that also resist to spunch by gambit
7 feel evil? why don't u try defensive setupper like zama or garg
8 u don't want to play offense? play dondo/mola + clod + blissey stall cores, u both autowin or autolose at team preview most of games
tell me another OU metagame where 70% of matches are the same
without the upcoming dlc this meta was going to being close to the level of rby ou, i can't say gsc since i never learned it
the only new things are moltres and zapdos being back from the dead thanks to the typing, the fact they can spam status and so much pokemons losing knock off and frosmoth being cheap version of volc
imagine a guide like the one for adv made for sv ou:
1 play offense or hyper offense
2 screens? why not we have a 142 base speed as setter
3 play hazards, your opponent can't remove them + play dengo just to be sure, he can be a breaker or speed + trick + status absorber
4 put gambit in ANY team in case you fuck up for trying to reverse sweep
5 since your opponent will also have gambit, put 2 hard checks at least + one pokemon with encore/wow
6 remember to play bax or anything viable at the moment that gets free setup thanks to tera that also resist to spunch by gambit
7 feel evil? why don't u try defensive setupper like zama or garg
8 u don't want to play offense? play dondo/mola + clod + blissey stall cores, u both autowin or autolose at team preview most of games
tell me another OU metagame where 70% of matches are the same
I do feel like it’s easy to doompost about how hard gamefreak has tried to kill defensive playstyles and 6v6 singles in general. I think if we keep tiering at the same rate as other generations nothing will really change, and if suspect tests are held then newer players will stop changes from happening because they’re more inclined to accept the metagame as it is. I think what should happen is a lot more quickbans, and some experimental quickbans to try and make the metagame more balanced like previous generations, not necessarily if the mons banned are literally unstoppable. Some unhealthy mons I can see going in order to make the metagame healthier are (in order from least to most healthy) Baxcalibur, Samurott-H, Kingambit, Sneasler, Roaring moon, and Cresselia. It could be seen as a little stupid to try and resist power creep, but we’ve just never had power creep at such a large scale before, with tpc literally trying to reshape the game towards 10 turn slugfests. To compare it to last gen, it’s like if we had 15 Dracovish forms with Gorilla Tactics and then the council finally had enough and said “Alright, let’s ban three of them.”
Look, I want to disagree. You aren't wrong on any aspect whatsoever, but I really want you to be wrong. But you're not. Especially in regards to poor stall. I'm tired of fighting stall, not because it's tedious (people taking 4 minutes to make a move in Hyper Offense is tedium) but because it's almost always the exact same mons with slight variations that crumble to Covert Cloak
- Status