We have the solution to the first by removing Mr "nice Defog you have there" Gholdengo
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
- Thread starter TPP
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yes, as we all know, offensive teams in gen 9 need all the help they can get
Salt posts like this give me life.
Zama isn’t even in the top ten most problematic mons in the tier. As many have said, its 4MSS is brutal. IDBP has crushing 4MSS issues and has issues vs anything that isn’t offense. Banded is super prediction reliant. If offensive teams weren’t as common as they were, it would probably struggle to be an A rank Mon.
Heck, I can name ten things I would look at for tiering action before Zama right now. I’m not ordering them but here.
Manaphy
Waterpon
Alolatales
Kingambit
Retesting Volc
Gliscor
Gholdengo
Roaring Moon
Iron Valiant
Sneasler
To be brutally honest, I think only a few of those have the legs being a priority for us to test. We only have what, six to eight weeks with this meta. We can get one suspect done, maybe two. Zama is far from a priority rn, especially with all the benefits it’s bringing the tier right now.
That’s cool, I disagree with all of those except for Manaphy, Ogerpon, and Kingambit. And I have zero interest in retesting anything already banned as long as Tera exists. Zama is cheap sauce but it is “good for the tier” because other broken shit cough Tera cough Gambit cough Ogerpon cough needs to be dealt with.
zama is underrated but not the best imo, and will prob get worse as time passes. i find its coverage kinda mid, stone edge is fine if open to hax and heavy slam is also fine but psychic fangs/crunch feel kinda bad.
fangs helps w the val matchup if it doesnt tera and sometimes the zama ditto if the other zama isnt id, but thats abt it. crunch only 2hkoing offensive ghold that will outspeed and often oneshot you, and it cant even 3hko defensive ghold half of the time so its not even the best for catching a switch in, scared of pult sets with wow since it cant ohko any pult set and doesnt outspeed either and burn makes it useless. even in non wow sets crunch feels underwhelming, doesnt stop pult from setting screens up and gets 2hkod by specs. its better than nothing ofc and can still be played to get good results but without recovery other than lefties (which just means ur gonna get bodied by hazards) and the amount of spatkers it gets worn down so quick and can sap ur momentum
its also super easy to force out and make it lose its def bonus, which is kinda a death sentence for non id sets.
doesnt mean the mon is ass, but it doesnt feel overwhelming at all and without smart play it really underperforms
fangs helps w the val matchup if it doesnt tera and sometimes the zama ditto if the other zama isnt id, but thats abt it. crunch only 2hkoing offensive ghold that will outspeed and often oneshot you, and it cant even 3hko defensive ghold half of the time so its not even the best for catching a switch in, scared of pult sets with wow since it cant ohko any pult set and doesnt outspeed either and burn makes it useless. even in non wow sets crunch feels underwhelming, doesnt stop pult from setting screens up and gets 2hkod by specs. its better than nothing ofc and can still be played to get good results but without recovery other than lefties (which just means ur gonna get bodied by hazards) and the amount of spatkers it gets worn down so quick and can sap ur momentum
its also super easy to force out and make it lose its def bonus, which is kinda a death sentence for non id sets.
doesnt mean the mon is ass, but it doesnt feel overwhelming at all and without smart play it really underperforms
why are people so mindbroken by the concept of pokemon wearing silly hats? tera isn't going anywhere until dlc2 and probably won't get the support to be banned after that anyway. stop letting it live rent free in your head and focus on the things that it is possible to take action on
i hope they make holowear canon in gen 10, i wanna run jotaro trenchcoat buzzwole and hawaiian shirt snorlax in competitive
Please don’t tell me what to think. Tera has been cancerous to this generation and we should continue to discuss how it affects interactions with different mons that are on the radar. For every suspect, there is a Tera interaction contributing to its oppressiveness.
Manaphy setting up on your Rillaboom?
Ogerpon setting up on your Zapdos?
Gholdengo stone walling your Tusk?
Gambit laughing its way back 1-5 to victory?
Gf isn’t gonna add holowear without it breaking singles, it’ll double the mon’s BST
i genuinely think that no useful discussion can take place on tera anymore. every single aspect of it, positive and negative, has been discussed ad nauseam. there is literally nothing left to add, just treading over well-trodden ground. virtually every possible sentence on the topic has been typed out. why waste our time saying what a hundred people have already said?
Literally half this meta’s problems would be solved by either removing Ghold or reverting back to Gen 7’s Defog distribution. Any S to A Tier mon with Defog that can threaten Ghold would be a win, cause otherwise, Ghold is just a very strong breaker.
BUT…We don’t have any good Defoggers besides Corv and Mandi, but guess who beats those two.
Just saying, suspect Ghold. (Suspect Gambit again). Then we should be in a pretty solid spot balance wise.
BUT…We don’t have any good Defoggers besides Corv and Mandi, but guess who beats those two.
Just saying, suspect Ghold. (Suspect Gambit again). Then we should be in a pretty solid spot balance wise.
Sir, may I remind you that status, special attackers, the fairy type, etc and so forth exist.
A found an error in this statement, Ogerpon can only Tera to its secondary type, or primary type if it’s Teal Mask form, that’s how it works
I think people need to look more at scizor and company. The important thing is ghold is still ghold, so using a defogger with a pivot move is very viable rn, just pivot on the ghold into a bulky ground or unaware mon and turn the ghold into setup fodder…ghold may have a variety of sets but it can’t immediately pose a threat unless its offensive, and its quite simple to discern which set you are up against as well based on uturn damage & item
If only bug was 2x effective on ghost instead of resisted…
DLC brought new Pokémon into the fray that abuse the shit out of Tera. DLC 2 will bring even more Pokémon into it. Players that return to mons and try to get into Gen 9 are met with a nice “wtf” when Manaphy sets up right in front of their Rillaboom’s face.
Tera Fire and Heavy Slam are not uncommon for Zama. Bye bye Fairy.
Ogerpon-W does not give two fcks about Zapdos’ Hurricane (or even Thunderbolt) once it presses its cheat button.
This salty tirade gives me strength. Like seriously, this isn’t the worst generation of OU, look at gen 1 for a moment, and realize how broken that game was, where even 100% accurate moves had a chance to miss, you couldn’t build a team without Tauros, and where have 3 normal types that are kinda mid now was an amazing strategy, where Psychic type was so broken they had to add 2 new types just to balance it.
*sips coffee* then why are you keeping it in against it, you can call it out, swap to a different Pokémon, predicting Tera, and, say, using rillaboom, take a possible Ivy Cudgel or while its swords dancing, and hit it with a choice band grassy glide, and that is just 1 option. There is a reason predictions and switching are in Competetive Pokémon. Just some advice. Also, your Zapdos statement was fair.
But also:
252 SpA Choice Specs Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Water Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera: 296-350 (98.3 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera in Grassy Terrain: 438-516 (145.5 - 171.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
U-turn or Legit any fast/scarf strong Physical nuetral attack (referring to water-pon)
Why would I keep or send in the strongest Grass type in the game, which also has a Grass type priority move.. in against a water type? You are right, I don’t know why I would do that.
Choice Specs Zapdos? Okay.
From a competitive standpoint, it looks like this tier is lost. I don’t know what else to say.
but in doing so, you A: have to predict accurately whether to defog or u-turn, B: even if you predict correctly and u-turn on the ghold, THE HAZARDS STAY UP, and C: Corv has this same option and is very clearly weak to gholdengo. What makes scizor different?
Even your (singular, 1380) replay shows Scizor not as a defogger, but as a swords dance sweeper, which really shouldn't have done anything if your opponent had went into toxapex or at least not just sacked their Pdef lando or Kingambit. It's also worth noting that the team didn't have gholdengo, which completely and utterly walls it AND prevents defog.
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Once the Aura/Rainbow Tera comes or whatever its called, then we’ll probably have something new (and even more broken) to discuss with Tera again.
are we seriously comparing a meta built on the modern day equivalent of a fucking calculator to a game that released in 2022
first time i got out trolled on here. you win
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