Unpopular opinions

[QuentinQuonce]

I think before gen 7 they weren't really considering actually changing abilities.

Gen 7 is when they started seriously looking into competitive balance, most of the moveset, stat and ability changes have been done with competitive in mind rather than just "in game fun" perspective.

I think it's not so much a case of them "not being willing to retcon" but rather them only recently realizing that they need to do more than "just add new pokemon and gimmicks" to spice up competitive metagame to get it become a real e-sport.

Gen 9 has also been the first time they've shown they are willing to tamper with movesets as well. While yes, outside of smogon, transfer moves have never been allowed, outside of moves strictly not appearing as tutors/TMs at all in a given generation, they used to be more or less consistent with returning ones: if you could learn move X in the previous generation, and it returns as TM (or equivalent), you were still able to learn it the next generation. Gen 9 has shifted, where even moves that were in gen 8 (like Scald) or were actually introduced in gen 8 (like Grassy Glide) have seen a shift in distribution / power in order to spice up or alter the competitive scenario.
Considering this has mostly been received positively by the VGC players, I'd expect the trend to continue.

Yeah fair. I'm not a particularly competitive player so I'm more just thinking actual game mechanics. Pre-Gen 9 they basically just added abilities to Pokemon as a way of "filling in" species who only had one regular ability, but there were occasional balance changes like Scolipede getting Speed Boost or Gengar getting Cursed Body. I was purely thinking in terms of "what changes would make certain Pokemon more fun/interesting to use than they currently are" and "who could use a shakeup". But as you say, they're seemingly taking more notice of the competitive metagame now.

 

[Worldie]

But as you say, they're seemingly taking more notice of the competitive metagame now.

Realistically, Nintendo and/or TPCI realized how much money you can make off the e-sports scene and are investing development time into it.
(For both Pokemon mainline, TCG, Unite and Go, bare in mind)
Remember when it was a miracle if we got worlds finals streamed? Now we get regionals and even with localized streams...

 

[Bakugames]

calling greedent ugly is so funny to me. this is just generic mammal design, the same as eevee, snorlax etc. theyre like brothers.

As for an unpopular opinion, i guess I talked about it here but legendaries should be uncatchable. idc abt competitive arguments because half of them are straight up ass and cheeks, but lore and writing wise I find it much more interesting to interact with legendaries by treating them as legendaries, one off mons with their own plot points, personalities and stories to tell.

you can still keep some of the legends that are better off by being catchable like ogerpon by downgrading them from legendary into just special goobers anyway, like bloodmoon ursaluna.

also because i think itd make ppl mad and thats funny

 

[AztecCroc]

calling greedent ugly is so funny to me. this is just generic mammal design, the same as eevee, snorlax etc. theyre like brothers.

As for an unpopular opinion, i guess I talked about it here but legendaries should be uncatchable. idc abt competitive arguments because half of them are straight up ass and cheeks, but lore and writing wise I find it much more interesting to interact with legendaries by treating them as legendaries, one off mons with their own plot points, personalities and stories to tell.

you can still keep some of the legends that are better off by being catchable like ogerpon by downgrading them from legendary into just special goobers anyway, like bloodmoon ursaluna.

also because i think itd make ppl mad and thats funny

Once again, that goes completely against the spirit of the franchise.

 

[Bakugames]

Once again, that goes completely against the spirit of the franchise.

Ever since 5 years ago the "spirit of the franchise" has been completely ignored in a duo combo of "pokemon wont be guaranteed to be present in the game and some of their formes will be completely unobtainable" and "the main game boss is an uncatchable form you can only see in a cutscene"

Also i don't really care. catching legendaries sucks and is lame anyway

 

[pika pal]

calling greedent ugly is so funny to me. this is just generic mammal design, the same as eevee, snorlax etc. theyre like brothers.

It's the fucking face. The stupid cheek shape, beady eyes, and "bearded" color arrangement, and flat humanoid face that evoke more of a cartoon fat guy look than even a superficial Squirrel (Pachirisu preceding it by 4 Gens was much more convincing).

Not hating the design is an opinion, but you cannot objectively tell me that's the same "generic mammal" design as Snorlax (the fat vaguely Bear-based Mattress). It's a Mammal alright, but that Mammal is Peter Griffin's fursona, not a regular Squirrel.

 

[Bakugames]

It's the fucking face. The stupid cheek shape, beady eyes, and "bearded" color arrangement, and flat humanoid face that evoke more of a cartoon fat guy look than even a superficial Squirrel (Pachirisu preceding it by 4 Gens was much more convincing).

I'm sorry I genuinely am but reading this and then looking at this mon is just really funny to me

Thats just a squirrel to me. It's a funny kinda fat squirrel but it truly is the most Just A Mammal off all mammals.

 

[pika pal]

I'm sorry I genuinely am but reading this and then looking at this mon is just really funny to me

View attachment 569740

Thats just a squirrel to me. It's a funny kinda fat squirrel but it truly is the most Just A Mammal off all mammals.

Bringing up a reference it's the stupidly big muzzle, lack of a snout, and massive proportion of its head to its body that makes it hard for me to see a Squirrel. Pachirisu has a more simplified head shape and face, while exaggerating the tail proportion more.

Greedent also has the issue where I think the face is too detailed, with the extra muzzle, dimples/freckles, and longer-proportioned arms invoking too much of an uncanny valley feeling vs Pachirisu as a cartoon squirrel. Eevee gets away with its design for the same reason, mostly being a bunch of simple round shapes.

 

[Bakugames]

Bringing up a reference it's the stupidly big muzzle, lack of a snout, and massive proportion of its head to its body that makes it hard for me to see a Squirrel. Pachirisu has a more simplified head shape and face, while exaggerating the tail proportion more.

Greedent also has the issue where I think the face is too detailed, with the extra muzzle, dimples/freckles, and longer-proportioned arms invoking too much of an uncanny valley feeling vs Pachirisu as a cartoon squirrel. Eevee gets away with its design for the same reason, mostly being a bunch of simple round shapes.

I think it's weird you mention the tail when greedent def has a larger tail to body proportion. The rest are opinions of course, but jumping from "it's design is a bit of a mess" to "this peter griffin idiot is the ugliest thing in the franchise" is making me giggle.

I'm not interested in defending greedents honor, this guy gives me 0 feelings and I only know it exists because I have pokémon autism and I love knowing all pokémon, but to me this is some of pokemons most inoffensive, safe, generic designs theyve made since like gen 1 seel and raticate. Ultimately its all opinions but the vitriol is what makes me laugh. I'd rather greedent get hate than my homie bruxish tho

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

I think it's weird you mention the tail when greedent def has a larger tail to body proportion. The rest are opinions of course, but jumping from "it's design is a bit of a mess" to "this peter griffin idiot is the ugliest thing in the franchise" is making me giggle.
View attachment 569744
I'm not interested in defending greedents honor, this guy gives me 0 feelings and I only know it exists because I have pokémon autism and I love knowing all pokémon, but to me this is some of pokemons most inoffensive, safe, generic designs theyve made since like gen 1 seel and raticate. Ultimately its all opinions but the vitriol is what makes me laugh. I'd rather greedent get hate than my homie bruxish tho

The ugliest pokemon is by far dustox. Not only it is ugly, it has nO use neitger in game nor in strategy. Firstly the inspiration is a moth, my most hated animal, I almost broke my back because of one, And it commited the war crime of having the worst ever shiny!

That is An outrage! I bet 50%of you just tought it was just a regular one at night. I will never regret trading mine for another shiny. Here is regular one:

this one is Even better. Shiny is unacceptable And should be changed the sooner the better

 

[Bakugames]

The ugliest pokemon is by far dustox.

Dustox is goated. I love drawing this goober

 

[KalosianPorygon]

The ugliest pokemon is by far dustox. Not only it is ugly, it has nO use neitger in game nor in strategy. Firstly the inspiration is a moth, my most hated animal, I almost broke my back because of one, And it commited the war crime of having the worst ever shiny!

Dustox is goated. I love drawing this goober

I don't love Dustox, but I don't mind using one. It's useful in-game against Brawly and its eyes look like cheese. (I love cheese.)

As for an unpopular opinion, i guess I talked about it here but legendaries should be uncatchable. idc abt competitive arguments because half of them are straight up ass and cheeks, but lore and writing wise I find it much more interesting to interact with legendaries by treating them as legendaries, one off mons with their own plot points, personalities and stories to tell.

you can still keep some of the legends that are better off by being catchable like ogerpon by downgrading them from legendary into just special goobers anyway, like bloodmoon ursaluna.

also because i think itd make ppl mad and thats funny

Ever since 5 years ago the "spirit of the franchise" has been completely ignored in a duo combo of "pokemon wont be guaranteed to be present in the game and some of their formes will be completely unobtainable" and "the main game boss is an uncatchable form you can only see in a cutscene"

Also i don't really care. catching legendaries sucks and is lame anyway

Personally I would like to experience the opposite, i.e., being able to play with formerly boss-only Pokémon like Eternamax Eternatus or the Starmobiles. I don't care if it's unbalanced, I want to use Master Hand and the Torque moves, darn it!

 

[bdt2002]

The ugliest pokemon is by far dustox. Not only it is ugly, it has nO use neitger in game nor in strategy. Firstly the inspiration is a moth, my most hated animal, I almost broke my back because of one, And it commited the war crime of having the worst ever shiny!
View attachment 569748
That is An outrage! I bet 50%of you just tought it was just a regular one at night. I will never regret trading mine for another shiny. Here is regular one:
View attachment 569750
this one is Even better. Shiny is unacceptable And should be changed the sooner the better

I read on Bulbapedia that it's a possibility Dustox's Shiny coloration is based on the Japanese silk moth, but it's unknown if that is an intentional reference or not much like with most other Shiny Pokémon. I'm not going to go on record and say this Pokémon is OP by any means, but I personally think it's at least better than Beautifly in most areas. Gen 3 is really when defensive Poison-Types started to become relevant in my opinion, with the buff to Toxic and the expanded distribution of Sludge Bomb, among other things. It's a perfectly fine earlygame support Pokémon that doesn't overstay its welcome.

 

[BP]

Not only it is ugly, it has nO use neitger in game nor in strategy.

Just because it's an unpopular opinion doesn't mean it has to be incorrect

https://www.smogon.com/dex/rs/pokemon/dustox/

 

[Hugin]

Personally I would like to experience the opposite, i.e., being able to play with formerly boss-only Pokémon like Eternamax Eternatus or the Starmobiles. I don't care if it's unbalanced, I want to use Master Hand and the Torque moves, darn it!

The Starmobiles specifically seem designed to be available as alternate forms at some point, albeit in a form that abides by the normal rules of the game. I don't know if GF will actually follow through on that(Z version), but they're very clearly easy to port into a player-accessible build.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

The Starmobiles specifically seem designed to be available as alternate forms at some point, albeit in a form that abides by the normal rules of the game. I don't know if GF will actually follow through on that(Z version), but they're very clearly easy to port into a player-accessible build.

Are they? I feel like they wouldn't have gone to such bizarre lengths to make them if they were ever planned to be accessable. Especially considering they're even less playable than the previous non-accessable boss Eternamax.

 

[Hugin]

Are they? I feel like they wouldn't have gone to such bizarre lengths to make them if they were ever planned to be accessable. Especially considering they're even less playable than the previous non-accessable boss Eternamax.

The "a form that abides by the normal rules of the game" is doing a lot of work in my post.
This borders on wishlisting, but:
Take a Revaroom, either recolor it themed on the 5 Star teams or give it a new mini-Starmobile model, depending on how many spare modelers you have sitting around the office. New type, new move, new ability(which are already decided on). Give them all a Rotom-style new better stat spread. Release them as the Starmobile Revaroom, accessible with the new DLC for $$$. Never acknowledge in any way that that isn't the Starmobile the player faced.

 

[Esserise]

While the Starmobiles are nominally considered a form* of Revavroom, it’s probably worth noting that in the story, they’re actually a complex hybrid of Revavroom, two Varoom, and Armarouge / Ceruledge. They’re not just a Revavroom with a big, gaudy, swappable exterior on them — which disinclines me to think that Game Freak would re-add them as more conventional forms.

* Though even in this regard, they’re different from usual. The Starmobile “forms” aren’t grouped with all the other alternate forms in the data, they don’t have names or even so much as empty spaces reserved for them in the common text files, which is something that even Koraidon and Miraidon’s various non-battle forms have, for some reason. Instead, the game basically just modifies the data of whichever Pokémon was sent out before the Starmobile.

 

[AztecCroc]

While the Starmobiles are nominally considered a form* of Revavroom, it’s probably worth noting that in the story, they’re actually a complex hybrid of Revavroom, two Varoom, and Armarouge / Ceruledge. They’re not just a Revavroom with a big, gaudy, swappable exterior on them — which disinclines me to think that Game Freak would re-add them as more conventional forms.

* Though even in this regard, they’re different from usual. The Starmobile “forms” aren’t grouped with all the other alternate forms in the data, they don’t have names or even so much as empty spaces reserved for them in the common text files, which is something that even Koraidon and Miraidon’s various non-battle forms have, for some reason. Instead, the game basically just modifies the data of whichever Pokémon was sent out before the Starmobile.

Koraidon and Miraidon's bike forms likely have form data because it made it easier to code the ui. If the bike mode is an actual form then they can use the same code for displaying the sprite for that slot as they do the rest of the party.

 

[Ironmage]

While the Starmobiles are nominally considered a form* of Revavroom, it’s probably worth noting that in the story, they’re actually a complex hybrid of Revavroom, two Varoom, and Armarouge / Ceruledge. They’re not just a Revavroom with a big, gaudy, swappable exterior on them — which disinclines me to think that Game Freak would re-add them as more conventional forms.

While I would personally expect GF to give out the Torques as special tutor moves rather than provide access to the full type/ability swaps of the Starmobiles (if they do anything at all), there's precedent for hybrids being represented as single in-battle entities that are evolutions or super forms of their components. In particular, I'm reminded of Sun's dex entry for Metagross-Mega:

This form results from one Metagross, one Metang, and two Beldum linking up.

 

[Ransei]

When a Pokémon story is so human-centric that it completely disregards the lore and capabilities of Pokémon heavily involved in the story, just to push further development for the human characters, it's a bad Pokémon story.

At first glance this might not be a hot take.

In practice this means DPPt and BW's stories, and even the climax of SM's story. Just the climax of that one.

 

[Sonikku A]

See: Pokemon Adventures

 

[Bakugames]

BW's stories

I feel that while pokémon themselves weren't the protagonists of BWs story, that they had an important function in the plot because of team plasma/N. It's a more human centric story because it's about humans ideals and their place in the world alongside pokémon, so they need to be more featured. You're right about dppt though lol

I agree this is a big flaw abt more recent pokespe arcs. The older ones weren't that great, it's a simple shounen manga etc etc but the pokemon of the protags were as much of characters are the protags themselves. Red's entire team, Greens charizard, blue's jiggly & ditty, yellows entire team again, Gold's aibo/exbo/sunbo, silvers sneasel & murkrow, crys mega and archy. They all had at least one pokémon that was involved in their character development and story.

Things start falling a bit with rse imo. While ruby and emerald were given teams that have a lot of thought put into them, sapphire got the short end of the stick just like her. Her pokemon were less developed and often only had one or two showcases in battles, but not much else. They still get decent stuff, but her starter Toro for example falls really flat compared to Ruby's zuzu and emerald's sceptile.

By dppt, the pokémon slowly became more of backgrounds/tools. Each dexholder was assigned one partner pokémon that would be more present in the arc (Pearl with Chatler, dia with Lax, Platinum with Piplup). But the rest of their teams feel more like random catches that they get for battling (Pearl literally grabs 3 random mons to fill his team in the middle of the battle and they're Never addressed or developed).

BW is. weird. Black harks back to the older arcs better development of his pokemon, but in compensation white sets the standard of the ENTIRE team being nothing more than means to an end. As soon as she loses her tepig, not a single mon in her team has any kind of charm, development or spotlight. And when she gets gigi back, we don't even get to see any character growth from her.

BW2 is weird because both dexholders basicially only have One mon and everything else is more so just legendaries/random borrows, so like, I guess their entire team is developed? Considering whi-two has One mon in foongy, and Lack-two has just dewott and then 3 legendaries for the plot.

After XY it's over. While the mons will sometimes be important in a backstory, sometimes a plot point, 99% of the time they will lose all relevance and the arcs become just about the dexholder themselves. All they're there for is the pokemon battles, or to fit a certain theming (Y has a fletchinder because shes a sky battle person. X has a bunch of mega mons because hes the mega evolution guy. Sun has a litten and a meowth because hes got a cat face, Moon has a bunch of poison mons because shes a chemist etc). It is such a pokemon-less pokemon product that it's kinda astounding

 

[QuentinQuonce]

I feel that while pokémon themselves weren't the protagonists of BWs story, that they had an important function in the plot because of team plasma/N. It's a more human centric story because it's about humans ideals and their place in the world alongside pokémon, so they need to be more featured. You're right about dppt though lol

I agree this is a big flaw abt more recent pokespe arcs. The older ones weren't that great, it's a simple shounen manga etc etc but the pokemon of the protags were as much of characters are the protags themselves. Red's entire team, Greens charizard, blue's jiggly & ditty, yellows entire team again, Gold's aibo/exbo/sunbo, silvers sneasel & murkrow, crys mega and archy. They all had at least one pokémon that was involved in their character development and story.

Things start falling a bit with rse imo. While ruby and emerald were given teams that have a lot of thought put into them, sapphire got the short end of the stick just like her. Her pokemon were less developed and often only had one or two showcases in battles, but not much else. They still get decent stuff, but her starter Toro for example falls really flat compared to Ruby's zuzu and emerald's sceptile.

By dppt, the pokémon slowly became more of backgrounds/tools. Each dexholder was assigned one partner pokémon that would be more present in the arc (Pearl with Chatler, dia with Lax, Platinum with Piplup). But the rest of their teams feel more like random catches that they get for battling (Pearl literally grabs 3 random mons to fill his team in the middle of the battle and they're Never addressed or developed).

BW is. weird. Black harks back to the older arcs better development of his pokemon, but in compensation white sets the standard of the ENTIRE team being nothing more than means to an end. As soon as she loses her tepig, not a single mon in her team has any kind of charm, development or spotlight. And when she gets gigi back, we don't even get to see any character growth from her.

BW2 is weird because both dexholders basicially only have One mon and everything else is more so just legendaries/random borrows, so like, I guess their entire team is developed? Considering whi-two has One mon in foongy, and Lack-two has just dewott and then 3 legendaries for the plot.

After XY it's over. While the mons will sometimes be important in a backstory, sometimes a plot point, 99% of the time they will lose all relevance and the arcs become just about the dexholder themselves. All they're there for is the pokemon battles, or to fit a certain theming (Y has a fletchinder because shes a sky battle person. X has a bunch of mega mons because hes the mega evolution guy. Sun has a litten and a meowth because hes got a cat face, Moon has a bunch of poison mons because shes a chemist etc). It is such a pokemon-less pokemon product that it's kinda astounding

In large part I think this is also down to how BW onwards the arcs have stuck so much more rigidly to the game story. There simply hasn't been the room for stuff to develop in the way the older chapters did. The RBGY and GSC arcs in particular meandered a lot, with loads of little side-stories and semi-standalone chapters akin to filler episodes in anime - you'd get an issue that was devoted to capturing a particular Pokemon, or the training/evolution of an existing team member. This happens much less in the later arcs. I'm reading XY atm and it's so tightly constrained; nearly every single thing that happens serves the central arc, and there's barely any time to breathe. BW is a bit better for this but it's where this trend started.

Not to mention that in the older chapters captures tended to take more time and effort, but there's an unfortunate tendency in the later arcs for characters to obtain Pokemon very quickly and effortlessly. Y decides she needs a Pokemon capable of Mega Evolving: boom, she finds and captures an Absol. Pearl gets told "fill up your team" by Wake, and quickly captures three Pokemon. The Plusle and Minun Ruby and Sapphire partner with are recurring characters; contrast that to how, in the ORAS chapter, Sapphire has already caught a Kirlia and it evolves into Gallade basically straight away. And then is barely used. This did happen in the older chapters too, but as noted they generally took a lot more time to flesh out at least some team members. Emerald very awkwardly gets three new team members at once, but we'd spent a lot of time with his original three before that (and let's be real his new three were only ever there to be paired with other dex holders' team members and make Gen IV babies).

Lack-Two has a blade-themed team btw (he has Kabutops, Gliscor, and Escavalier in addition to his others, and they all have a Serious nature). But yeah, they're barely fleshed out and are only relevant inasmuch as they contribute to a theme.

 

[Sonikku A]

The sadder thing, Norman in Adventures notes how Ruby wasn't paying attention to his mons during their big fight
It was a warning