That's quite interesting. I kinda just assumed that Neutralizing Gas blocked all abilities.
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Project Metagame Workshop
- Thread starter KaenSoul
- Start date
Metagame name: Reverse Physical/Special Split
Metagame premise: Damage category of all physical and special moves are switched, so Fire Punch is now Special and Flamethrower is now physical. All moves that calculate damage based off attack, defense, special attack or special defense (Body Press, Psyshock, Psystrike and Secret Sword) and all attacking moves that lower the user or target’s stats now lower the opposite stat (to ensure that moves that lower your attacking stats continue to deal less damage, and moves that lower your foe’s defensive stats continue to deal more damage)
Potential bans and threats: None that I can think of
Questions for the community: Should Foul Play and/or confusion damage deal damage based off the target’s special attack?
Metagame premise: Damage category of all physical and special moves are switched, so Fire Punch is now Special and Flamethrower is now physical. All moves that calculate damage based off attack, defense, special attack or special defense (Body Press, Psyshock, Psystrike and Secret Sword) and all attacking moves that lower the user or target’s stats now lower the opposite stat (to ensure that moves that lower your attacking stats continue to deal less damage, and moves that lower your foe’s defensive stats continue to deal more damage)
Potential bans and threats: None that I can think of
Questions for the community: Should Foul Play and/or confusion damage deal damage based off the target’s special attack?
This format already exists https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/category-swap.3711668/
Does a format that swaps base attack with base special attack and base defense with base special defense exist as well?
I do not believe Category Swap swaps base defense and base special defense, but I would not advise submitting the metagame you suggested earlier because even though it is an addition to Category Swap, anything that is similar to another metagame is typically rejected.
Metagame name: Weak Tera
When a Pokemon Teras, they lose STAB on their original types that are not the Tera Type.
They gain STAB on the Tera Type.
If their Tera Type is one of their original types, they gain 2x STAB.
It may not seem like a big change, but it will change the metagame. King Gambit will likely no longer Tera Flying, Regieleki will still Tera Ice if it's unbanned, and defensive ground types may still Tera Water.
When a Pokemon Teras, they lose STAB on their original types that are not the Tera Type.
They gain STAB on the Tera Type.
If their Tera Type is one of their original types, they gain 2x STAB.
It may not seem like a big change, but it will change the metagame. King Gambit will likely no longer Tera Flying, Regieleki will still Tera Ice if it's unbanned, and defensive ground types may still Tera Water.
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I feel like that metagame is way to specific. Category swap basically swaps the attacking stats and Flipped swaps attacking stats with defensive stats (physical attack <-> special defense). Both of those metas are on the downlow (I should know, I'm involved in both and I'm a scavenger), so you're unlikely to see any action there.
Metagame name: Weaknessmons(better name pending)
Metagame premise: Pokemon can only learn moves for the types that they are weak to, without factoring in abilities.
Examples: Gholdengo is weak to Fire, Ghost, Dark, and Ground moves. Therefore, Gholdengo would only learn Fire, Ghost, Dark, and Ground moves. Existing movepool is ignored.
Example 2: Rotom-Wash is immune to Ground via Levitate, but the Electric/Water typing makes it weak to Grass and Ground. Therefore, Rotom-Wash gets Grass and Ground moves.
Potential bans and threats:
:gholdengo: :dragapult: :gengar: Ghost types get a big boost in this format, as they can use their best STAB options, unlike a lot of other mons.
:chi-yu: :palafin: :magearna: Normally broken mons like these may be balanced in this metagame, as they lack reliable STAB options and can end up being weaker than the competition.
As for bans, probably the standard OU banlist with these changes:
- Dragapult
+ Chi-Yu
+ Palafin
+ Magearna
+ Annihilape(?)
Questions for the community: Are there any broken moves that should be banned day 1? Is Gholdengo gonna be overwhelming?
Metagame premise: Pokemon can only learn moves for the types that they are weak to, without factoring in abilities.
Examples: Gholdengo is weak to Fire, Ghost, Dark, and Ground moves. Therefore, Gholdengo would only learn Fire, Ghost, Dark, and Ground moves. Existing movepool is ignored.
Example 2: Rotom-Wash is immune to Ground via Levitate, but the Electric/Water typing makes it weak to Grass and Ground. Therefore, Rotom-Wash gets Grass and Ground moves.
Potential bans and threats:
:gholdengo: :dragapult: :gengar: Ghost types get a big boost in this format, as they can use their best STAB options, unlike a lot of other mons.
:chi-yu: :palafin: :magearna: Normally broken mons like these may be balanced in this metagame, as they lack reliable STAB options and can end up being weaker than the competition.
As for bans, probably the standard OU banlist with these changes:
- Dragapult
+ Chi-Yu
+ Palafin
+ Magearna
+ Annihilape(?)
Questions for the community: Are there any broken moves that should be banned day 1? Is Gholdengo gonna be overwhelming?
Is still not big enough of a change for an OM, we look for stuff that has a massive impact on how you play, even if the change itself is simple.
We have way too many formats that change learnsets by now, what makes this distinct from them?
Your idea is interesting and I see how it could certainly change the metagame. However, you need to consider if others will like this. What I'm saying is that this idea seems too similar to juat a regular metagame such as Gen 9 OU or Gen 9 UU and that there doesn't seem to be much reason to play this over Gen 9 OU. In the end, it is all up to the moderators whether they like it or not. (Edit: Whoops a mod already responded lol)
One of the biggest things that differentiates this from other move changing formats is the general lack of reliable STAB, instead being more heavily focused on coverage. The only exceptions to this rule are Dragons and Ghosts. Take Weavile as an example. In most metas, it would be a relatively normal Weavile with Knock Off, maybe Glacial Lance or Triple Axel or Icicle Spear, etc.. However, in this meta, Weavile is forced to explore options such as Close Combat and U-Turn, changing the way the mon is played overall. You can use examples like this for various other mons in the meta(Magearna, Toxapex, etc)
Seems like a very interesting metagame that could certainly be fun. I personally might accept it, but KaenSoul does have a point that there are so many metagames that change movesets. In the end, its all up to the mods.
It sounds similar but Tera is a huge part of the game. It's probably the difference between mons like King Gambit and and Espathra getting banned or not.
While that may be true, if you compare it to any actual OM, that difference is just too small to compare.
Does it need to be as different as most OMs? What's unique about it is it's similar to OU while arguably making it more balanced.
We don't look for formats that are similar to standard tiers.
Well, you might not like this either, but here's another idea.
90% hax
All moves with 90%+ accuracy have 100% accuracy. (Exceptions include High Jump Kick)
Secondary effects with 10% or less chance no longer occur.
Critical hits with 10% or less chance no longer occur. (Exception may be made when opponent has defense boosts, to nerf that)
90% hax
All moves with 90%+ accuracy have 100% accuracy. (Exceptions include High Jump Kick)
Secondary effects with 10% or less chance no longer occur.
Critical hits with 10% or less chance no longer occur. (Exception may be made when opponent has defense boosts, to nerf that)
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We want formats that have unique niches, so they don't compete with others to have a playerbase, something that is just a small change away from being another format is not going to last, you could come up with endless small variants of OU, those aren't interesting enough.
Also, you can only submit one format idea here per week, you need to give yourself some time to think about them, compare it to existing formats, and make a good post with them that can convince people into thinking they are good ideas.
Another thing which differentiates this from other metas is the complete lack of Normal-type moves: no more Substitute, Protect, Swords Dance, Shell Smash, Explosion, Fake Out, Extreme Speed, Revival Blessing, Transform, Encore, Boomburst, etc.
Grass types have a lot of potential here. Among other things, they have access to Sticky Web, Toxic Spikes, Toxic, Mortal Spin, Defog, Roost, Will-O-Wisp, U-turn, Defend Order, Tail Glow, and Quiver Dance. Also, Ghosts and Dragons have access not only to STAB moves but to good boosting options as well (Nasty Plot and Dragon Dance respectively).
To answer your questions: I would definitely ban Last Respects, and probably also Rage Fist and Astral Barrage, otherwise Ghosts will be way too powerful. I don't think Gholdengo should start on the banlist, but I do think it should be on the watchlist, since it still has most of what makes it good in OU (Good as Gold, Nasty Plot, reliable recovery [Shore Up], and Ghost STAB), plus now it blocks all hazard removal (since Tidy Up and Court Change are Normal moves and thus unusable) and there are few mons apart from ghosts that can hit it with supereffective STAB.
I have a question. Would Water Types get access to Freeze-Dry?
A luck reduction OM like the 90% hax OM I posted would compete with standard metagames for the playerbase as you said, but I disagree that such formats would not last. If it is better than the relevant standard format, it can be success
Hax-removing formats have been soundly rejected for a couple reasons. Outside of the competition / lack of a niche that it has compared to different metagames, metas that aim to remove hax have to have far too many caveats to fit the ideal OM bill of "one uniform change"; there are far too many things to account for to have it be reasonable (things like damage rolls, speed ties & switch order on said ties, full paras & thawing, dire claw / effect spore rolls, sleep talk / metronome calls, 30% secondaries (always activating is broken and never activating is near useless), and multiple others simply can't fit under a single concise definition).
The way I see it, things you can't account for or change the game drastically like (things like damage rolls, speed ties & switch order on said ties, full paras & thawing, dire claw / effect spore rolls, sleep talk / metronome calls) don't change it. You can strategically go for 30% secondaries, but 10% or below is something that is usually more of a nuisance than a strategy.
Although sleep to always be 2 turns is doable.
Removing damage rolls would affect set guessing
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