BH Balanced Hackmons

[cityscapes]

rest + sleep talk is generally very outclassed by recover/sap w/ optional take heart if you really don't like status. it just takes up way too many moveslots, being asleep also just totally sucks and sleep talk will never call the things you want reliably enough to be worth it. there's a very vague idea of forcing imposter to fall asleep if they want to heal, but sleep is mutually exclusive with other statuses you'd want to inflict on imposter.

so "normal" mons will probably not get much use out of this. what about gimmicks? there have been some over the years:
- sleep talk + psycho shift is no longer in the game
- z-sleep talk is no longer in the game (free this in gen7 btw its awesome)

so what we're left with is rest + sleep talk + circle throw + whirlwind/dragon tail on something fast like zamazenta. what this does is it rests, gets 2 opportunities to maybe force the opponent to take hazards, then after that it has to rest again. suffice it to say that if you manage to get into a position where this actually does something, it follows that the opposing team is so incredibly disadvantaged that pretty much anything threatening would get the job done.

i don't even think rest is necessarily that bad if you run it with natural cure or even on its own as e.g. a jungle healing alternative on vdance sweepers, but sleep talk is truly almost never worth it.

of course i'll truly never be happy until council complex bans comatose + sleep talk + phazing and lets us use choiced comatose breakers with sleep talk 4th move. the people have spoken and they want GAMBLING

 

[RaptorTheRadiant]

Second of all, almost none of these sets are good

Yeah I can definitely see this, even though I don't love the idea of needing to proof your team over one pokemon. My question is with these pokemon what would be good sets? I'd appreciate the help from you or anyone else to give me new sets (or maybe new pokemon suggestions to synergise better)

btw arceus-fairy and dialga-origin don't need their items you can run whatever

I def agree with your comments and appreciate the help. Especially thanks for that last bit, when I was building the Arceus I was playing around with pixilate and forgot to change the item. Dialga Origin I intentionally run orb for knock off proof and to have a safe switch for knock off users. But what item would you suggest?

 

[BjordTPE]

Shuckle @ Rocky Helmet Ability: Fur Coat - Body Press - Cotton Guard - Recover - Speed Swap

252 - 31 0 - 0 +252 - 31 0 - 0 252 - 31 -0 - 0

I use this shuckle on some teams to stop physical attackers from going haywire but it can't do anything to a ghost type and it gets hard stopped if I cant set up (which take 2 turns, maybe 3 for speed swap) and a mon uses a steel move on me. I come to you all wondering if you know either a good mon that I can switch into or some other way to stop the weaknesses. Also this is a valid way to stop normalize because they want to be fast so they can use entrainment before you attack and people don't know what is up with shuckle.

 

[Minecraft]

Shuckle @ Rocky Helmet Ability: Fur Coat - Body Press - Cotton Guard - Recover - Speed Swap

252 - 31 0 - 0 +252 - 31 0 - 0 252 - 31 -0 - 0

I use this shuckle on some teams to stop physical attackers from going haywire but it can't do anything to a ghost type and it gets hard stopped if I cant set up (which take 2 turns, maybe 3 for speed swap) and a mon uses a steel move on me. I come to you all wondering if you know either a good mon that I can switch into or some other way to stop the weaknesses. Also this is a valid way to stop normalize because they want to be fast so they can use entrainment before you attack and people don't know what is up with shuckle.

Ok, so the reason this isn't working is twofold. One, Body Press is a shit move. Two, Shuckle is not good. I would recommend using a different FC that has actual bulk, and swapping from Body Press+Cotton Guard to a better moveset.

 

[Onyx Onix 7]

Shuckle @ Rocky Helmet Ability: Fur Coat - Body Press - Cotton Guard - Recover - Speed Swap

252 - 31 0 - 0 +252 - 31 0 - 0 252 - 31 -0 - 0

I use this shuckle on some teams to stop physical attackers from going haywire but it can't do anything to a ghost type and it gets hard stopped if I cant set up (which take 2 turns, maybe 3 for speed swap) and a mon uses a steel move on me. I come to you all wondering if you know either a good mon that I can switch into or some other way to stop the weaknesses. Also this is a valid way to stop normalize because they want to be fast so they can use entrainment before you attack and people don't know what is up with shuckle.

From my expeirments on the ladder, Shuckle surprisingly was pretty solid because it shut down Strength Sap and Pain Split as recovery options and undersped regen-vest users. The later of which meant the opponents breakers had to take the status move Shuckle was inflicting if they wanted to enter the field . However, I don't think Cotton Press sets are optimal. For one Fur Coat doesn't actually boost Body Press damage and secondly Ghost types blank your main damaging option. Also your set has a pretty severe vunerability to status as an opponent can just Mortal Spin you and pp stall your recovery. Shuckle also isn't a reliable Fur Coat user to begin with as it has weaknesses to Surging Strikes, Gigaton Hammer, and Sunsteel Strike, all of which you will find on physical threats on the ladder. However, once you replace Shuckle with something more reliable as your physical wall, I do recommend you try this set:

Squish (Shuckle) @ Leftovers / Covert Cloak
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Pain Split
- Burning Bulwark
- Leech Seed / Toxic / Mortal Spin
- Salt Cure

This set has a lot of chip damage, recovery denial, and momentum denial. Choiced Breakers, especially, aren't having a good time due to Burning Bulwark and Shuckles' low speed. This set is genuinely so annoying for a lot of builds. Also, Ghost types and status won't save your opponents like with the Body Press. S/O to Halward for making this set by the way. Quite a fun set to use and surprisingly effective.


Also, since I'm on the topic of Shuckle and mons, I'll be submitting this team as a sample: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...types-only-no-imposter.3772142/#post-10729971. Too long have the samples been disrespectful towards the skill of the users, I say we add at least one that is a true test of skill to use. We need to build some character within our playerbase and not foster a playerbase that thinks all bh boils down to is clicking V-Create 6 times on the most generic balance imaginable.

I'll also submitt this team as well to offer a solid HO team to the mix of teams: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ons-gen-9-bh-rank-1-ghost-types-only.3762697/. I don't know why this wasn't added earlier it got rank 1 on ladder (Not easy by the way for something as volatile as H.O. I've seen a total of two other H.O. teams do this across the entire gen) and defeated teams even with mutiple dark types, normal types, and fast ghost types like here: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...49854880-v2osmwkd061vuisuuns3wxalw4llt6spw?p2. Also, Cirno H.O. also got accepted despite having a dodgy track record and rarely breaching 1400 on the ladder. Why Cirno was actually accepted despite having objectively worse performance than this beyond me? Had I been around to seriously use this in tours I think it unirionically would've just steamrolled a lot of the teams used there. Very few teams were actually prepared for the offensive onslaught, especially since counters like Ice Scales Ho-Oh and Dark Types are declining in usage. Also, this team obliterates Bomb Squad, and drops many Storm Eagle, Akira, and City teams on the spot. Essentially, only QT teams reliably beat this, but that is a small price to pay for the good match-ups it gets into most other approaches to teambuilding. Also, another bonus replay shattering an Eagle Sun team: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-2348366016-c005mt6qdsb0rosc8yjdcs3cw388s18pw.

 

[The Guy Who Has Many Alts]

I would also like to submit a sample team.

NEVER BEFORE SEEN BH TEAM

https://pokepast.es/571ba5d94451b890

How to play: click NP and sweep gg ez go next.
Effectiveness: Yes
Weaknesses: No


Also here's a challenge code for new megas of anyone's interested.

code

/challenge gen9balancedhackmons @@@ +barbaracle-mega, +chandelure-mega, +chesnaught-mega, +clefable-mega, +delphox-mega, +dragalge-mega, +dragonite-mega, +drampa-mega, +eelektross-mega, +emboar-mega, +excadrill-mega, +falinks-mega, +feraligatr-mega, +floette-mega, +froslass-mega, +greninja-mega, +hawlucha-mega, +malamar-mega, +meganium-mega, +pyroar-mega, +scolipede-mega, +scrafty-mega, +skarmory-mega, +starmie-mega, +victreebel-mega

 

[Codename C.A.T]

not a sample submission, just a team i like



- cool as fuck mon that clicks boomburst into everything and either kills them instantly or simply dies and does nothing. you can prob remove sap for like vc or smth but i wouldnt, you just wanna click boomburst and espeed anyways. this team really likes leaving like zama at 40 and random bulky guys at 35 ish so ray can clean up pretty well if you sack or pivot with regi. just dont switch this guy in with rocks up he instantly explodes

- god i fucking love this guy. i was playing a ladder game today switched in and took 30 from a +2 mhera drain punch. like its not a strong move but holy hell man he is so god damn bulky, and at the end of the day its still a really strong chomp. moveset is bog standard sg stuff, not much to write home about, altho you do need to be careful w this guy on etern. could go scales if you wanna troll chans who think theyre safe to reverse sweep you after an sg but this guy prefers switching into random phys hits and just eating them imo

- wish bulwark lets you heal all your guys while also making sure chans cant very freely wishpass since tcage traps and denergy threatens big chunks. bulwark is a bullshit broken aids cancer move as detailed in this thread already but its good to abuse it while you can. idk i dont have much to say its kinda just a levi etern with a pinch of chili powder

- you dont care about this guy

- bounce steely is awesome. he does like 50 to neutral arcs at +2 and denies sap while being hella bulky himself, as well as obviously selfproofing. i think we should legalize liquid ooze but only for me and not for my opponents

- this team has 3 life orbs lmao

my team has no weaknesses, except for the part where it has no cloak, loses to a half decent chomp, and has like 2 outs on steela. other than that it is completely flawless

 

[tzaur]

- god i fucking love this guy. i was playing a ladder game today switched in and took 30 from a +2 mhera drain punch. like its not a strong move but holy hell man he is so god damn bulky, and at the end of the day its still a really strong chomp. moveset is bog standard sg stuff, not much to write home about, altho you do need to be careful w this guy on etern. could go scales if you wanna troll chans who think theyre safe to reverse sweep you after an sg but this guy prefers switching into random phys hits and just eating them imo

Love this team and set, but for this guy, what's the plan against Imposter? If it comes in at +1, does it not win on the spot if Glaive Rush snipes both of your other dragons while Headlong Rush snipes both your steels along with Flutter Mane? Or is the idea to send in Etern and hope for a burn? Asking because I want to take the team for a spin.

 

[Codename C.A.T]

Love this team and set, but for this guy, what's the plan against Imposter? If it comes in at +1, does it not win on the spot if Glaive Rush snipes both of your other dragons while Headlong Rush snipes both your steels along with Flutter Mane? Or is the idea to send in Etern and hope for a burn? Asking because I want to take the team for a spin.

basically you fraud. for the actual answer you have a decent shot at pivoting around it with etern + flutter, and if youre careful about when it sets up, you can sometimes revenge with ray. honestly its pretty shaky since this team is mostly just for fun but you can def outplay imp here, esp with bulwark

 

[Onyx Onix 7]

While I have already submitted the mono ghost team in earnest (genuinely one of the most consistent H.O.'s in gen 9 and easily got to rank one with few to no losses and very fun to use) and the mono-rock as a meme submission, there's one more submission I'd like to add: Assault Vest Dialga Offense. Here is the pokepaste if you want to import and use for yourself: https://pokepast.es/3d32c9dd01ef0584. I'm not going to waste my time with a full RMT as this took 10 minutes to build and wasn't anything particularly challenging, enlightening, or surprising. And what I mean by that is offense has been a viable strategy for a long time, even as certain people in the community choose to deny its existence and viability. Who knew that the strategy Cityscapes has been successfully using in tours and consistently topping the ladder with is actually viable, crazy indeed. And, no, it also isn't something crazy or esoteric that only Cityscapes or Akira can use consistently. It took me a whole 10 minutes to make a viable offense team and top the ladder with it, and I haven't even built a team that wasn't for some cruel and unusual laddering challenge in ages.

Team Synopsis:​

Basically, a hybrid between a tank and a mixed attacker. Its bulk means it can come in on a lot of Pokémon, especially special attackers and just start clicking buttons. The great thing about this is that in most cases, your opponent's attempts at a switch in straight up will lose to Dialga. Registeel and Celesteela are straight-up KOed by Gigaton Hammer into V-Create, Ting-Lu takes 85% upon switching in and taking a Gigaton into a Clanging Scales, Kyogre doesn't fare much better, and Chansey just gets paralyzed by Nuzzle. Sure, an opponent can try bringing in their Fur Coat / Take Heart Arceus, but they can easily have half their health removed by Clanging Scales.



Basically just stops Take Heart abusers from running rampant with a strong Thunder-Cage and leftover recovery. It also occasionally functions as a late-game wincon once physical attackers and set-up control on the opponent's end is removed, and Imposter-Proofs Dialga if it gets too weakened by stray hits.



A temporary physical tank to check physical attackers. It uses no recovery, so an Imposter's best case interaction with it is that it gets paralyzed and loses HP from Steam Eruption. Also sets Sticky Web for the team's physical breakers, so the rest of the team is much harder to offensively check.



The team's main Strength Sap blocker and hazard control. Also puts on a lot of offensive pressure and is difficult to interact with defensively, thanks to a high attack stat and Good as Gold / Covert Cloak.



Just the standard Tough Claws Shift Gear set. Consistently does massive damage to Fur Coat walls even without setup due to high attack and massive BP on its moves.



Since the team only has Glare / Nuzzle for set-up control, Blaziken serves as a contingency plan with Destiny Bond and Copy-Cat. Other then that, it can put massive offensive pressure with Swords Dance and V-Create. Imposter-Proofed by trading itself with Imposter and by Arceus Water.

How to play the team:​

Before you lead, look carefully at an opponent's team. If you expect an Imposter or physical breaker lead, then Arcueus Water is the correct option. If you expect a regen-vest lead bring in Chomp. Lastly, if you expect a special attacker to lead, go into Dialga. With this team, you don't want to switch around and play passively. Be sure every play keeps the opponent on the back foot and low on HP. Once you've weakened and sap-blocked physical walls, go for the win with one of the team's physical sweepers as soon as possible.

Proof of Peak:​

My alt is Mr. Natas 666, and as can be observed, I got to rank 2 with ease. I could've easily gone for 1700 or even 1800 with this team, as it was overall incredibly consistent; however, because of my elo, I was spending more time in the queue than actually playing, so I think I'll stop here for now.

Note: While this was the alt I used for the mono-rock challenge, I didn't start at 1582 elo, but below 1400 for this team at a terrible gxe. This was because I was testing ideas for the challenge of reaching rank 34 on the ladder with an r34 theme team. As one can imagine, it did not go well.

Another Miscellaneous note and hot take on sample selection: Easy to use should not be used as a criterion for sample selection, it is basically just codeword for familiar/ in the style of the council members, and so even teams with good performance get discarded in favor of teams that are more familiar to the council but overall worse in quality and performance. Also, enjoyable to use should also be a criterion. Just look at the blunder video, nobody wants to play those awful regen-cycles (especially newer players).

Replays:
​

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...79648194-bjvkduv58djtjd2upcod5xbs5eo4e73pw?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...80202563-vo5p3jpvdmqmio4a017o92g43g1uvympw?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...80180795-yc7qfi3ymlbd4icgegtrboy6njrjw3vpw?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-2480054271-6u658dn7g1n61qqd3y9867xp7r0itk7pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...79488863-camy8y969lit43ly6x4jp3l5cw5wv1tpw?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...79524115-hmvqwf6j7oqq9fnxrsc5k9e6co4paw3pw?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...80218713-ghces53vvh6xaopxlw2adn23l89ilwxpw?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...80193493-9qy5c3qvwyg0dw78j25x4hfu0vb5u48pw?p2

 

[cityscapes]

Tomes of All Generations: Vol. I

(Note: I've replaced the players' names with colors in order to present the study more impersonally. This will be a practice in my studies going forward.)

Source: Taka vs. Wheaty (HPL II, week 2), end of turn 44

Short summary: After Turquoise Team snagged an early kill with Ultra Necrozma + Doom Desire, Scarlet Team baited in and removed Imposter with a surprising Spirit Shackle Mega Steelix. Since then, Turquoise Team has tried to find inroads with Ultra, but thus far the lack of slow pivots and sapblockers have made progress difficult. Will Scarlet Team be able to keep the game closed enough for Blaziken + Stealth Rock to rack up kills, or does Turquoise Team have a way through?​

Elements written in italics have been confirmed in a practical sense by deduction from calcs, but haven't been explicitly confirmed by the game. If there are multiple possible explanations, they go in the Additional Information tab.
Turquoise Team

		(in, -1 atk)			(Fire)
100%	68%	99%	91%	KO'd	100%
		Leftovers	Air Balloon (gone)	Eviolite
Regenerator		Fur Coat		Imposter
Doom Desire (6) U-turn (30) Stone Axe (23)	V-create (7) Draco Meteor (7)	Strength Sap (14) Parting Shot (30) Magical Torque (15)

Additional information:
- Necrozma-Ultra has no physical-boosting item, ability, or nature, judging by its V-create doing 91% to an opposing Flutter Mane (the roll from itemless Naive is 85-100). Draco Meteor doing 53% to Steelix rules out possibilities such as Choice Band Tough Claws Ultra vs. Fur Coat Flutter and points to abilities such as Dragon's Maw and Tinted Lens.
- Dialga-O is almost absolutely confirmed Assault Vest, and completely is if we assume the Sceptile is Life Orb Magic Guard. It's also max attack investment.
- Zacian is Jolly. Blaziken V-create couldn't have done 92% otherwise.

Scarlet Team (Stealth Rock)

(in)
82%	100%	KO'd	100%	100%	100%
			Choice Band	Leftovers
Regenerator			Desolate Land	Levitate	Fur Coat
Salt Cure (23) Stone Axe (23) Flip Turn (31)	Gigaton Hammer (7) Volt Switch (31)		V-create (7) Close Combat Glacial Lance Bolt Strike	Spirit Shackle (4) Gigaton Hammer Strength Sap (7) Precipice Blades (9)	Volt Switch (31) Strength Sap (15)

Additional information:
- Blaziken is Adamant.
- Clodsire and Swampert have no Heavy-Duty Boots or Leftovers.
- Assuming Dialga-O is Assault Vest, Sceptile is almost definitely Life Orb.

Questions​

Sit with the position for a while! Answer these! Post them in the thread before even seeing the rest of the post!

1. First, fill out all unknown information as best you can. Use your metagame knowledge, not just in the sense of "what's standard" (like, say, LO MG Sceptile being its most common set) but also "what makes sense here" (how the team is imposter-proofed, how it deals with threats like Take Heart Arceus, etc). Be honest about your confidence levels! If you aren't sure about a set, at least be sure of your lack of confidence.
2. Given this information, what should the plans for both players be? How should Turquoise Team try to break out of the slow-pivot vortex, and how should Scarlet Team act to prevent this? Which team has the better position, and by how much?
3. Let's look at a more forcing variation. Suppose on the next turn, Ultra Necrozma switches in on a successful Stone Axe from Clodsire. Exactly how bad is this for Scarlet Team? Which defensive resources do they have, and how badly do they need to save these resources for later? Suppose Scarlet Team is able to perfectly predict Ultra's moves until it next switches out. How should Turquoise Team proceed with Ultra, and how much progress will they be able to make?

My answers

Starting with Turquoise Team, the first thing I notice is the hazard matchup. There's only one rock resist and no revealed boots, so Stone Axe can be a huge pain for very low cost. On top of that, is there any hazard-removal option in case you match into something like Spikes? Rapid Spin Dialga-O looks somewhat stable on paper until you realize just how badly it gets owned by Imposter. The potential to exploit Imposter with something like Whirlwind Flutter as a spinblocker is limited, because even in the best case they're trading rocks and clicking Doom Desire to waste your time, though Spikes Flutter could maybe be justified here.

So my verdict is that the Fireceus is definitely hazard-immune, either Boots Desolate Land (probably Growth) with Well-Baked Flutter imposter-proof, or MG Plate self-proof, highly likely with that same WBB Flutter. There's a wealth of evidence to support both possibilities: Desolate Land would be elegantly imposter-proofed (assuming Flutter to be WBB makes sense because Balloon is hard to understand otherwise) and gives the team immediate power against threats like Steelceus, who are immensely threatening otherwise. MG would have a better time against Imposter, who can seemingly readily regenerate against Dialga and Zacian. It's difficult to say which, but I'm leaning towards Desolate Land.

Assuming Flutter is WBB, I think it has to be Spikes. Zacian is probably Encore last, I'd be very scared of something like NP Ghostceus with this structure otherwise, though something like Rapid Spin is very possible on a team that commits more to matchup fishing. If Arceus is Desolate Land, I think Dialga can't have Nuzzle, because Arceus would be the primary imposter-proofer with the idea to click Growth, probably try and status Imposter, and so on. Last moves that I'm looking for on Dialga are Knock, Salt Cure, maybe Revdance. I'm still kind of attached to the idea of Rapid Spin Dialga and Whirlwind Flutter with the three purposes of disallowing Doom Desire from connecting, forcing out opposing TH Arc, and shuffling with your own Doom Desire, but unfortunately I think Flutter really values getting to act first against opposing Steelceus and Ghostceus as they're among the biggest problems for the team so I'll discard the possibility.

Ultra is clearly imposter-proofed by Zacian and/or Flutter. The lack of boosting item is kind of throwing me off here, Boots feels like a solid option if we're really committing to no removal, the only other possibility I really see is Scarf. I think Scarf Ultra is fucking horrible in general but also Boots without Dragon Energy is really weird so I'm for sure suspicious here. I definitely think it's Maw with no item rather than Specs with no ability, the fairy imposter-proofs really support the idea that you want to be clicking Glaive Rush as third move.

Moving on to Scarlet Team, we can immediately rule out Mortal Spin, Knock, and probably Nuzzle on Clodsire because the Blaziken is the imposter-proofer and you want to bring it in on Flip Turn. Clod is almost definitely Assault Vest because otherwise the team is simply too special-weak for how slow it is. The Sceptile imposter-proofing is super dubious so I really want to put Nuzzle on the Clod (the team hugely benefits from paralysis in general), but if that's out of the question then something like Ruination is maybe also fine. Scept looks like MG LO no setup, you really want the initial power against Miraidon and Etern.

Flutter Mane is definitely the biggest question mark here; it's clearly a very important mon even if only for its sapblocking and speed control, and the team frankly looks a bit silly with it dead. The set that springs to mind first for me is MG LO 2 atks + Topsy/Encore/Swap/etc + Split. I think you really want ghost move Flutter to pressure Ghostceus, Garde, and Steelceus on this team. Of course a more toothless utility Flutter could have been complacently added here as it so often is, but I just don't think you can afford to be any more passive with a team like this. The opponent will just start clicking Knock Off and you'll have nothing.

If I'm being honest, I want HJK no grass move Sceptile here. That's easy to imposter-proof and it eases the matchup against Registeel. Not like you're ever disadvantaged into Waterceus structures when you have that Flutter.

Swampert is probably Covert Cloak cause I don't know what else it's carrying. I'm almost certain this is Mortal alongside something like Salt Cure or ground move (imposter-proofed by Steelix). The only other possibility I see is like, Shackle + Knock where Clod is Mortal after all and you simply call out the Flip Turn, but this feels way too dubious on multiple levels. No removal is interesting if it is 2 MG, but without boots on Pert I don't think it makes any sense at all.

Anyway, let's go to the details of the position itself. My honest opinion is that Turquoise Team likely has a significantly better position, based purely on the fact that sooner or later, a likely hazard-immune Fireceus will arrive with devastating consequences. If it's the Desolate Land Growth set, Swampert will have to trade itself off to land Mortal Spin or a Ground move, after which the position is near-untenable against both Fireceus and Ultra while Scarlet Team's own Blaziken and Sceptile don't leave as much of an impact. If the Fireceus is instead Magic Guard Torch Song, then things are even worse and there's essentially no counterplay at all.

This doesn't at all mean that Scarlet Team has nothing to play for. Fireceus, the defining mon of the position, hasn't even entered play once, so it's far too early to write off the game just yet. The rest of Turquoise Team has proven itself to be unwieldy at getting through, with even Ultra getting stonewalled by the three Ground-types thus far.

Turquoise Team should simply sit back and relax, knowing the win will come sooner or later, if they have standard MG Fireceus. There are few unknowns left on Scarlet Team, so the chances of real counterplay are low. However, Turquoise Team shouldn't get into the habit of scouting extremely carefully for whatever unfriendly moves might be left in the position, as momentum is a scarce resource for them and if they allow too much opposing progress then something like a Dragon Energy crit from Sceptile might completely turn the tables.

If Ultra is Scarf, it should be coming in on Clod, hoping to bait Sceptile or trick away the scarf (if it's scarf no trick then what the fuck are you even doing lol). Assuming Fireceus can get through eventually, Ultra is a very expendable mon and you can clarify the advantage state by trading it off for momentum and the few bits of uncertainty left in the position such as Clod's last. Stone Axe isn't something you want to allow for free, as Blaziken will start getting kills and force in Fireceus to potentially crit-fish it, which definitely isn't something you want to deal with.

With Desolate Land Fireceus, I'd play a little more cautiously and try to get as much out of Flutter as I could. One spike will cause massive problems and force Scarlet Team to show their hand regarding hazard removal without any major concessions on the part of Turquoise Team. (Flutter's HP and status aren't important--having WBB alive for Blaziken is good, but regardless of health it probably dies if it gets hit and lives otherwise. It's also irrelevant against Sceptile.) If Clod is Mortal, you shrug, spam Split, and harass it with Dialga. If Swampert is Mortal, you happily spam Moonblast into it, after which Fireceus is straightforwardly uncontested.

The advantages for Scarlet Team lie in the shadows--a weird Fireceus set, a touch too much complacency in the face of Blaziken, a bit too much impatience in the conversion process, all can turn the game on its head. The position is worse, but right now it's defensible. Ultra hasn't clicked Trick--does it not have it? Fireceus hasn't come in--is it bad? The best thing to do is to keep the position in stasis for as long as possible, resisting every temptation to simplify. Don't trade Stone Axe for another Ultra entry. Maybe don't even bring in Blaziken at the earliest opportunity. Don't reveal any remaining moves without a very good reason. Just keep clicking Flip Turn and Volt Switch, and eventually, Stone Axe will be allowed at no cost at all.

Playing so solidly with a balance team in a position where there might be no window at all is tough, and many players aren't up to it. That is the reason why I'm writing this. The game is terrible sometimes, and you must hang on despite that. Your perseverance will be rewarded in more than a handful of cases.

Moving on. If Ultra were to enter on Stone Axe right now, Glaive is a roll from this range on Relaxed Clodsire, and a guaranteed kill on Sassy. If Clodsire dies, then there's clearly nothing left to play for, while if Steelix gets V-created, then Swampert or Clodsire will switch in and the momentum might pass back into Scarlet Team's hands (very likely if Ultra is in fact Scarf). What about Trick? Taking Steelix's Leftovers would be very beneficial for Ultra, but taking Clodsire's Assault Vest would be not so good. Since rocks are already up on Turquoise Team's side, Clodsire can continue to Flip Turn on absolutely everything except for a potential Desolate Land Fireceus, but Ultra is stuck not beating Sceptile anymore.

Against perfect predictions, I think the best Ultra can do here is just Glaive, forcing minor damage on an immobile switchin. However, Trick specifically alongside either a hazard remover or Desolate Land Fireceus should be very strong.

Perfect Information​

I reached out to the creators of both teams and got their permission to post them here.

Turquoise Team

		(in, -1 atk)			(Fire)
100%	68%	99%	91%	KO'd	100%
Assault Vest	Draco Plate	Leftovers	Air Balloon (gone)	Eviolite	Shuca Berry
Regenerator	Dragon's Maw	Fur Coat	Well-Baked Body	Imposter	Magic Guard
Brave	Hasty	Jolly	Timid	Sassy	Timid (full atk)
Doom Desire (6) U-turn (30) Stone Axe (23) Dragon Tail	V-create (7) Draco Meteor (7) Gigaton Hammer Glaive Rush	Strength Sap (14) Parting Shot (30) Magical Torque (15) Rapid Spin	Moonblast Toxic Spikes Pain Split Topsy-Turvy	Topsy-Turvy Heal Bell Block Shore Up	Torch Song Knock Off Mortal Spin Soft-Boiled

Scarlet Team (Stealth Rock)

(in)
82%	100%	KO'd	100%	100%	100%
Assault Vest	Life Orb	Heavy-Duty Boots	Choice Band	Leftovers	Covert Cloak
Regenerator	Magic Guard	Ice Scales	Desolate Land	Levitate	Fur Coat
Sassy	Naive	Timid	Adamant	Careful	Impish
Salt Cure (23) Stone Axe (23) Flip Turn (31) Clear Smog	Gigaton Hammer (7) Volt Switch (31) Chloroblast Dragon Energy	Moonblast Revelation Dance Pain Split Encore	V-create (7) Close Combat Glacial Lance Bolt Strike	Spirit Shackle (4) Gigaton Hammer Strength Sap (7) Precipice Blades (9)	Volt Switch (31) Strength Sap (15) Precipice Blades Mortal Spin

Questions​

1. With this information revealed, who has the better position and why?
2. If this position was played with open team sheets, how should each player proceed?
3. Notably, Scarlet Team has no Arceus. Let's take the same position, except with Steelix replaced by Fist Plate Levitate NP/Tachyon/Judgment/Recover Timid Arceus-Steel. Would this make things better or worse for Scarlet Team, and by how much?
4. From this position, if Turquoise Team was given the option to substitute Parting Shot on Zacian out for any other (legal) move, what should they choose? How much would it help, and why?

My answers

Of course, the biggest revelation here is the extremely unorthodox Shuca Fireceus from Turquoise Team, which is still a very strong threat but is nowhere near as dominating as a Strength Sap variant would've been. Clodsire + Swampert will be able to keep it in check for some time, though if both get knocked then things are up in the air once again. Blaziken from Scarlet Team has a much greater chance of getting through. There are three situational switchins in the forms of Flutter, Zacian, and Arceus-Fire. Of these three, Flutter blanks V-Create but drops to the unresisted and potentially paralytic Bolt Strike and more importantly poses no threat whatsoever to Clodsire + Sceptile, Zacian drops with Rocks up, and Fireceus gets 2HKO'd by both stabs but can threaten Knock Off, after which Zacian functions as a reasonable answer. Overall, I would say that Blaziken has an extremely realistic path forward. Sceptile, on the other hand, is probably never getting through that Dialga; despite the silly Brave nature, Dragon Energy does 47.2% max and nobody can threaten Knock Off.

Let's look at Ultra. Dragon Fang here is pretty interesting and something I should have considered more (I assumed Steelix was +Def, in which case itemless Draco could have feasibly gotten that roll on it). Without a doubt, Ultra will be hugely threatening whenever it gets in, but Scarlet Team will be able to stave off its impact with the power of prediction. Clodsire, Ultra's only real entry point, is vulnerable only to a Glaive kill at high HP. Meanwhile, Swampert and in particular Steelix can sponge Glaive with no effort. Draco Meteor and V-create are strong, but require prediction to use and come with annoying stat drops. The Draco Special Attack drop is particularly annoying, seeing that there are multiple answers so Scarlet Team will have one healthy physdef even if the other gets wounded. This isn't to say that Ultra is never breaking through; any crits, prediction sequences, or external chip on the critical walls will spell disaster for Scarlet Team.

If I were to objectively evaluate this position, I would say that it's pretty balanced, but I would give a bit of an edge to Scarlet Team. The reason for this, I think, boils down to Swampert winning against Fireceus and having Clodsire around to readily get it in. Swampert and Fireceus are definitely the two most important pieces of the position, each serving crucial offensive and defensive roles and chipping things down for the breakers bit by bit. The fact of the matter is that Swampert will be the one easily getting in, likely landing an early Mortal on Zacian and keeping hazards off in general. If Dialga takes a Blades then Sceptile starts being threatening, but this might be a worthy tradeoff in order to land a Doom Desire, an important way to force Scarlet Team back to a wall and in the process allow Ultra entry.

That said, the position is still balanced in some ways, and Turquoise Team has some things to play for still. Ultra + Flutter is the most straightforward way to break up the triple-ground blob; if Swampert takes a Draco then the position immediately takes a huge swing, so you might consider V-creating at the Clodsire to try and catch Steelix. Finding this opportunity might be difficult, but once you grab it then things start going your way.

It's also possible for Turquoise Team to play to land a Mortal on Swampert early after removing the Covert Cloak. This is very risky as Fireceus's HP is very important, but if done correctly it could also have a huge payoff. This line might just be outclassed by ideas of aggressively getting Ultra in, though.

Critical calcs:
252 Atk Swampert-Mega Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus-Fire: 306-360 (68.9 - 81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Clodsire Flip Turn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus-Fire: 66-78 (14.8 - 17.5%) -- possible 6HKO
252 SpA Arceus-Fire Torch Song vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Swampert-Mega: 46-54 (11.3 - 13.3%) -- possible 8HKO
252 SpA Dragon Fang Dragon's Maw Necrozma-Ultra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Swampert-Mega: 340-402 (84.1 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

With Scarlet Team, the gameplan is a lot easier: spam Flip Turn with Clodsire and make waves with Swampert and Blaziken. Even Zacian is an entry point for Swampert, who can happily threaten -1 Precipice Blades on Dialga or just click Volt Switch. The only thinking you really have to do is in limiting Ultra's entries.

So something I want to mention here, it's very easy to look at the situation and think that things are much worse for Turquoise Team than they actually are. It's true that the tide is flowing against them, meaning that if both sides pursue exclusively "autopilot" moves then Scarlet Team will win. However, the price for swimming against that tide isn't as high as it sounds, and Turquoise Team's many resources mean that they'll get several windows to throw everything they have at Swampert, knowing that as soon as it dies, nothing is standing in the way of Fireceus.

Note also that in the actual game (without full info), Turquoise Team's position is somewhat better than it is in our exercise, because Scarlet Team might commit to terrible mistakes on the assumption that Fireceus beats Swampert. I might have been way off on the imperfect information bit, but at least I recommended not hard-committing to anything.

Anyway, Steelceus>Steelix. Honestly, I think this would make things a little worse for Scarlet Team. Steelix's main role in this position is serving as a stopgap to Ultra, and Steelceus takes more from V-create. Steelceus also gets countered by Fireceus, with Torch Song 2HKOing and +2 Judgment not doing the same. It certainly isn't the worst thing in the world though, because if Fireceus was to meet with some unfortunate fate at the hands of Blaziken, Steelceus would be the first to hear about it. The rest of Turquoise Team just can't do much to it. Topsy Flutter looks annoying on paper but is completely insubstantial in practice.

The first alternate move on Zacian that came to mind for me was just Teleport, which completely negates the advantage conferred by slow pivoting with Clodsire. Aside from that, there's Knock Off, which could punish Scarlet Team for getting greedy with Swampert, though Clodsire and Steelix can just pivot back and forth on it. An option that might sound surprising is Glare, with the idea that since Ultra takes very little from Flip Turn and Sceptile isn't too bad to let in (Volt Switch is mildly scary, but you can midground Zacian in order to not let in Blaziken), you can try just going hard Ultra in front of paralyzed Clod. One last idea is Spikes, trying to force chip on Swampert one way or another.

None of these alternate moves are perfect, but each has a pretty sizable impact on the position, and I would argue that Scarlet Team's advantage becomes very tenuous with them in the picture.

Closing Thoughts​

The game from which this position was taken had a pretty silly ending. Taka, controlling Turquoise Team, successfully found opportunities for Ultra and completely turned around the position, but the fun was cut short by a Bolt Strike paralysis on Fireceus and a Draco Meteor miss on Steelix. Wheaty, playing as Scarlet Team, ultimately held on long enough with his bizarre triple-ground core to take home the victory.

Of course, I didn't know any of this while doing the first part of the study, so it was all quite a shock to discover after writing several paragraphs about how bad the position was for Scarlet Team. Sometimes conventional knowledge can get in the way more than it helps! I swear I didn't cherry-pick this specific moment for this purpose, it just spontaneously formed before me.

Hopefully, you sat with the position for some time too and came up with your own independent thoughts. Truth be told, I didn't choose this position because there was anything special about it, I did it completely arbitrarily. You could do something similar for any tournament or even ladder game and get something interesting out of it, assuming there isn't an overwhelming advantage to either side.

A position is nothing on its own. We, in surrounding it with our interpretations, are the only thing that give it meaning. Even competitiveness (in the sense of trying to kill all opposing mons) itself is just another lens. There are countless numbers of games to be played: how many times can Turquoise Team switch in Fireceus if that's all they're trying to do, but Scarlet Team is trying to prevent them from doing so? If both players are cooperating, how many times can a hit deal exactly 200 damage? How many ways are there to convert this position down to a prediction-based 50/50 endgame? We could go for hours and hours and hours.

My purpose in making this post wasn't just to create the study, but to establish the practice of studies in general. I'd really like to see others work on similar things and add their own spin on it. The reason I added hypotheticals, like the question about Zacian having a different move, was to establish the position as a very malleable, dynamic environment and less of a hard, unchanging object. Obviously movesets typically can't change in-battle, but I think questions like these are important for the teambuilding process.

A pretty major shortcoming of this study is the fact that it doesn't touch on intentionality very much. We can learn a lot about sets by simply observing how our opponent is playing, even if they're a cold machine that always makes the objectively best move. I tried to touch on this a bit by pointing out things like how strange it was that Fireceus had never once come in, or the (incorrect) read that Ultra was Scarf because it kept clicking one move and then switching out. However, there's only so much you can say about intentionality when your focus is on a fixed position rather than on the context that got you there. Unfortunately, I think I still have a ways to go before I can examine a full game with comparable depth to this study, but if anyone else would like to try then I wholeheartedly welcome that.

I certainly might do more studies in the future, depending on my level of commitment. If you want to see them, use cool teams and play high-level games where both sides think for 10 minutes per turn. I demand sacrifice in the form of weird games.

 

[chroma_2903]

gen 9 bh if it was good

Kyogre-Primal @ Metal Coat
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Steam Eruption
- Tachyon Cutter
- Knock Off
- Toxic Spikes

 

[Mewtwo's Greatest Soldier]

I wrote like an entire essay but the tab reloaded and it didn't save so I'm going to make this a lot faster than the last time.

https://pokepast.es/06525100f4fed7b5 this team got rank five which is my second highest rank ever, it's cool. Idk where the fez set came from (probably the goat Onyx Onix 7 ) but it can be like mbro ting mlix mvenu etern mage etc. Fun team that does fun things. I swear I wrote like four paragraphs on this but I can't be bothered to rewrite it.

https://pokepast.es/75f6249e4842e57e this one is worse. Rank 19 and it's obviously weak to a lot of things (find the garchomp check) but koraidon is really cool and is basically knockspikes ghostceus + zamazenta. helmet is funny because rocks + spikes + gren click sometimes puts imp into helmet range which is hilarious if they sack it for like 30% on korai. Etern is cool for goobing zama on ladder because it basically can't threaten you and gren easily forces damage on it, it's a solid roll to 2hko zama if it comes in on rocks twice and gets sapblocked. Ladder also usually lets you poison the fc with korai which makes gren basically unbeatable (252 Atk Choice Band Sniper Greninja-Ash Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Dondozo on a critical hit: 148-175 (29.3 - 34.7%) -- 70.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and poison damage).

Quick edit- Rank 8? Seriously? Now I either have to make a DUAL rmt or beg for likes twice as hard across 2.

Quick post-edit edit: Rank 6???? Holy hell, this was a joke team without sap (the good healing) or setup, wtf is ladder doing?

Apologies for this lower effort post, usually I try to dump more than two teams or put a lot of work into descriptions and whatever but I didn't have any others and really don't want to write out my six paragraph essay again because it rambled forever and took ages to write. I'm working on more quality pokebh content soon, got at least one new vr nom coming up soon.

To make up for the lack of word count, have a schizodump! lots of regen and life orb because they're really good.

https://pokepast.es/28ca7448004ba537

 

[The Guy Who Has Many Alts]

Hello everyone. Today I will reveal some of the strongest and most powerful sets available that nobody is using. Normally I wouldn't actually post sets until a tour is over (OMCL) in this case but I realised that these sets are so good that it doesn't really matter if your opponent knows them, because they will be paralysed by the sheer power behind some of the machinations operating behind these mons. The way I make sets is through The Vision™. Basically, I think of what role(s) I want the mon to do and make the set around that. Obviously outside The Vision™, the sets will look underwhelming because that's outside the scope of engineering, but if you stick with the designated roles, I think these sets will perform exceptionally (terms and conditions apply).

1. Big Offense from #1 least offensive player in BH
1.1 Weakness Policy Abomasnow

Abomasnow-Mega @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Simple
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Shift Gear
- Raging Fury
- Headlong Rush / Precipice Blades / Bolt Strike
- Grass Knot / Any Grass Move

This first set is all about abusing Simple and Weakness Policy. Abomasnow is a Pokemon of many weaknesses, Bug, Rock and Poison being three of them. The idea is you want to lead/go to this against a RegenVest. Your unsuspecting opponent is hopefully going to click U-turn, Stone Axe or Mortal Spin as you click Shift Gear. This will instantly make give +6 attack, +4 sp.attack and +4 speed.

That's just the beginning. This is also anti-Imposter. Basically, as long as you are healthy enough (can be achieved by running Horn Leech of Matcha Gotcha if you want), you basically force Imposter to click Raging Fury to kill you. Raging Fury is a 2-3 turn move which means that if you are knocked out by Imposter, you have 1 free turn. So how do you abuse this? Well, we simply run a Heart Swap mon with either Prankster or Fire-immunity. The easiest example is WBB/Prankster with Heart Swap, Judgment, Secret Sword/Collision Course and Sludge Bomb. You are guaranteed to get the Heart Swap and continue your sweep with your now +6/+4/+4 Arceus.

+4 252 SpA Abomasnow-Mega Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus-Water: 828-974 (186.4 - 219.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+4 252 SpA vAbomasnow-Mega Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Zamazenta: 426-502 (109.7 - 129.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Abomasnow-Mega Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Koraidon: 416-490 (102.9 - 121.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Abomasnow-Mega Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Garchomp-Mega: 416-490 (99 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Sweep Demo: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-2501795983-9d3gcqu98m7m5uhrmodnu018k8oy8rrpw
Improof Demo: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-2501797283-oiyqorkk0cimrd14v7f4hf9gpiby6ndpw

1.2 Auramaxxing No Guard Kyurem + Tailwind Zekrom

Kyurem-White @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Expert Belt
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Sandsear Storm / Precipice Blades
- Magma Storm / V-create / Focus Blast / Dynamic Punch
- Zap Cannon


Zekrom @ Eject Button / Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Wind Rider
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Tailwind
- Glaive Rush / Glacial Lance
- Volt Switch / Bolt Strike
- Bolt Strike / Recovery

I think Tailwind is an interesting setup move that could be used in offense. It has some pros and cons to Sticky Web. Firstly, it's equivalent to +2 speed compared to +1 which means you can run slower mons. For example, neutral base 70s have 239 speed which is way too slow at +1 but actually is fast enough at +2 (360 vs 480). Another big difference is that Tailwind actually works against Imposter unlike Sticky Web and can't be ignored via Flying-types and Boots. Imposters will copy your mon so the speed drop does nothing. However, Tailwind affects your field so when Imposter comes in, it doesn't copy it. Finally, you get the Tailwind immediately on your next turn whereas you have to wait until your opponent switches out to get your "speed boost". The obvious big downside is that Tailwind really only lasts 3 turns whereas you can set webs and forget about it until they remove it.

This No Guard Kyurem set is pretty standard, I think Ice + Electric + Ground + Fire is the best combination you can get right now. There are a couple of other moves you could consider like Precipice Blades for ground or V-create for fire. There's also Fighting which could replace fire if you need easier improof, but it's the worst typing option. It just so happens that Sandsear Storm and Blizzard are Wind-moves which synergises with Wind Rider. Precipice Blades is better vs Scales Groundceus and V-create (or Population Bomb) is better vs Ice Scales in general but you can't go wrong with Magma Storm. I also think if you wanna run this as breaker you need a damage item but I guess Boots could work if you hazard stack or if you get lucky with paralysis.


252+ SpA Expert Belt Kyurem-White Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Eternatus: 475-562 (98.1 - 116.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Expert Belt Kyurem-White Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Ting-Lu: 324-382 (63 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Expert Belt Kyurem-White Sandsear Storm vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Ice Scales Arceus-Electric: 122-145 (27.4 - 32.6%) -- 76.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Expert Belt Kyurem-White Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus-Electric: 206-245 (46.3 - 55.1%) -- 10.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Expert Belt Kyurem-White Magma Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Registeel: 127-151 (34.8 - 41.4%) -- 64.8% chance to 2HKO after trapping damage
252 Atk Expert Belt Kyurem-White V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Registeel: 264-312 (72.5 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Expert Belt Kyurem-White Zap Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus-Water: 295-348 (66.4 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

For the Zekrom, there are a couple of options too. On offense I think you just run no recovery, Tailwind + 3 attacks. Best case scenario is switching into a Wind move and clicking Tailwind to be at +2 attack and speed. Glaive Rush is the standard Dragon STAB but you can actually run Glacial Lance to hit Ting-Lu and Dragons. Ice + Electric is basically optimal outside of a few cases. You'll always outspeed Imposters too so they can't just go into that without taking a lot of damage. If you want to run this in balance then you can slot in a recovery. There is also a bit of fun stuff you can try with Eject Button. You can click Tailwind and Eject Button out immediately to your nuke, bringing it safely and gaining an extra Tailwind turn.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Zekrom Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Arceus-Water: 471-556 (106 - 125.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Zekrom Glacial Lance vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Ting-Lu: 562-663 (109.3 - 128.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Zekrom Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Registeel: 398-469 (109.3 - 128.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

1.3 "The Invincible" SD Prank Fly Ho-oh

Ho-Oh @ Lagging Tail
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Swords Dance / Destiny Bond / Recovery
- Copycat
- Fly
- V-create

Ok so I haven't actually tested this but the idea is simple. Lagging Tail makes your Pokemon go last on their priority bracket. What you want to do is to click Fly (or any 2-turn invulnerability move like Dive or Shadow Force) and then Copycat that Fly. What should happen is that the 2nd (damaging part) of Fly will occur LAST on the +0 priority bracket which means your Ho-oh will go last and avoid your opponent's attack. On the next turn, your Copycat will select Fly and your Ho-oh will perform the first (become untargettable) phase of Fly LAST on the +1 priority bracket which means you're still gonna go first unless y our opponent clicked a priority move. I also think you're self-proof in some cases. This set also has V-create if you just wanna spam Copycat V-creates instead. Now there are some things that will ruin this setup like non-zero priority moves (Dragon Tail/Circle Throw being the most common and Prankster). There is also Knock Off and your opponent can easily recover between turns.

Demonstration: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-2501790246-5qbuhftcu8j0ahrvbijwaj6tsrxph79pw

Alternative mons:
- Fly + Gigaton
- Dive
- Dive + V-create
- Fly + can Copycat Dragon Energy better
- Shadow Force

1.4 Simple Plot Belch Eternatus

Eternatus @ Jaboca Berry
Ability: Simple
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Belch
- Secret Sword
- Strength Sap

Won't go into too much detail here, It's basically self proof Simple NP sweeper that doesn't care about Knock Off which is nice. You do have to Knock Off/status the Imposter before hand though.


2. "Help I need to switch into Regens and stop them from U-turning into their nuke for free"
2.1 Guts Fake Out/Espeed Ursaluna

Ursaluna @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Precipice Blades
- Fake Out / Extreme Speed
- Strength Sap

Basically Guts Ursaluna come in for free on most Regen moves except Salt Cure since you don't care about item or status. if you run Fake Out or Extreme Speed, you can now threaten fast nukes who usually don't have healing. Fake Out basically stops every single choiced mon from coming in whereas Espeed is double damage but isn't as free to click. I'm not sure if you want speed or not to be honest. Being faster than regens mean they can't click U-turn since they'll take a lot of damage but being slower also means they can't U-turn because the incoming mon will take the hit instead. Might be team dependent but I'd say you should have speed to attack Regens twice.

252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Celesteela: 153-181 (38.4 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Ting-Lu: 270-318 (52.5 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Zamazenta: 144-169 (37.1 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


2.1 MISTY SURGE Belch Eternatus

Eternatus @ Jaboca Berry
Ability: Misty Surge
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Belch
- Nasty Plot
- Secret Sword
- Strength Sap

Return of Belch Etern now with extra Misty Terrain Support for the rest of your team.


2.2 Toxic Debris Steelix

Steelix-Mega @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Toxic Debris
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Precipice Blades
- Salt Cure
- Pain Split
- Court Change

Steelix is the perfect bait for Garchomp and Blaziken... except the moment your opponent tries to U-turn into it, they can't bring them in because of Toxic Spikes. By making your Toxic Debris mon anti-regen, you can put your opponent into awkward positions because their spinner and pivot gives you free hazards. This Steelix also beats some Eternatus sets which is nice.


2.3 Electromorphosis Zekrom

Zekrom @ Choice Scarf/ Choice Band
Ability: Electromorphosis
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naughty / Naive Nature
- Volt Switch
- Bolt Strike
- Glaive Rush / Glacial Lance
- Trick

This one only walls non-Mortal Spin and Salt Cure regens (Exactly Rapid Spin/Revdance/Nuzzle/U-turn) but it's kinda cool because Electromorphosis doubles your next electric move which is a lot of damage. With just Scarf it's a +2 but if you run Choice Band, it's actually equivalent to +4 which is a 3x multiplier. The bad part about Band is that you don't actually threaten a lot of offensive mons since you are slow but with +speed, you can outspeed 100s which is kind of ok.

+2 252+ Atk Zekrom Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Blaziken-Mega: 472-556 (129.6 - 152.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Zekrom Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Zamazenta: 186-220 (47.9 - 56.7%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Zekrom Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Zamazenta: 156-184 (40.2 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

[Mewtwo's Greatest Soldier]

nice improof via forcing opponent to use raging fury, unfortunately


plus debris steelix is depressing, do we forget LETHAL INJECTION so soon?

Anyways I don't have much else to do so I'm posting a bunch of teams, most of these work around 1500 pretty well so they absolutely can be that bad.

https://pokepast.es/5356614dd9f42b42

this team was the origin of what became spikes knock mortal arrows regen korai and the fireceus hstack that turned into fezstall. The fireceus is hardwalled by primsea steela and mg hooh and most cloak scales but goobs damn near everything else, you can even beat scales if you spike up. Other guys are just standard except the spikes -> mortal zama because I reasoned teams with primsea steela can probably block zama spin too so spikes are free if you just spin with fireceus. This had absolutely no bad effects ever, especially not when I queued into the guy spam loading welcome ❤︎ hell. It's furscalesregen with nuke breaker and sapblock (who loses to mortal longterm but shh) super standard stuff. If the welcome ❤︎ hell loader seems to be on ladder extreme speed can be bolt strike.

https://pokepast.es/94381aec7ecd3835

I experimented with knock + mortal fireceus because it's really annoying to check and city made a cool post about it. Easy improof is just a wbb steel that doesn't care about spikes and everything else was kinda filled on autopilot, unfortunately I used ferrothorn because the water resist here doesn't exist so you basically lose on the spot to etern if steela takes any damage at all and ladder adores spamming mg etern even though that set is definitely not as good as usage would have you think.

https://pokepast.es/8cbb34dcae01f2c7

Progression into zama + selfproof fireceus, I actually lost to triple arrows on ladder despite using dust steela because serene grace pheremosa pressed swords dance then scored a critical hit. God I love not banning moves because they aren't blatantly overpowered because of a set of rules made up for OU over a decade ago. Still super simple stuff so I'm not going to focus on it very much, especially because it inspired nothing really.

https://pokepast.es/a3d6e2fb70049270

zekrom is immune to para and a decent clicker. knock ceus + garde means evio chansey doesn't stay a check for long (2hkod) and you can straight up power through even registeel with hazards. Don't ask how it's getting lured by fireceus though. It also keeps gardevoir more cleanly improofed by steelix because you don't have to worry about knocking your own regenvest. Steelix also just isn't improofed whatsoever which is funny.

https://pokepast.es/666fd8784ccaf1a5

idk what I did here but you have fire move garde and it's spinner zama again so you actually lose to mg blob. Pert also gets fucked by imp because you block your own sap, it should probably be shore but then you can't beat more stuff than I care to admit. Sassy is also weird. Bulwark would be really heat on it though I'm not sure if you can fit it.

https://pokepast.es/68e25ce9210b8dcd

I really wanted to make bounce work (it wasn't working) so I threw it on flutter. Zacc was for speed and I didn't want to use deo or mosa but either of those guys are better here probably. You also lose to lucario pretty hard in theory but it's usually wasted pressing a move that does 60 to ho-oh and dying. Still not a good team and you do just forfeit into etern if it scores a poison on ho-oh or you can't chip it down for zacc.

https://pokepast.es/9b288e34bb8d51c4

The first precursor to EARTHSHAKERS, it's even weaker to eternatus somehow despite not being triple fairy. Bounce mirai comes back and so does np judge mortal ghostceus to help gardevoir versus scales except it should be knock off absolutely. I tried to be honest and not use tarrows but it's probably the better ability

https://pokepast.es/a958712507438cb6

The second precursor to EARTHSHAKERS, I haven't changed it to beat etern yet so you lose to etern still. Garchomp comes back to stay and I finally decide that Zama + Mirai + Chomp + Lix is good, just struggling with hazard removal and mg spa guys that status/get past kyogre.

https://pokepast.es/96f0484c009b45d1

The first version of my stall, emp is kinda heat and fireceus is cancer if you don't have a fire immune steel or mg ho-oh, a pokemon who emp puts on fraudwatch unless it's volt tackle because the sample sets are still age-old. Greninja is HASTY despite not having frost breath recommended anymore, the imposter matchup cannot be this dire. First appearance of bounce etern!

https://pokepast.es/a062e96d567adc09

It's ghostceus + steela now (don't use this)

https://pokepast.es/17e282746fb6f3f8

It's glance ho-oh fc now (don't use this)

https://pokepast.es/76459944a572f652

This one is actually interesting because it's my first actual superman where you don't have a regen registeel dying to spikes and dragging you down. As a downside the matchup into volt gardevoir is really tough. MG enam was something interesting to me, double primsea sounded fake but it can't improof fireceus unless you go tsong clang epow or something bad so I used magic guard for generic purposes and slotted bulwark to dunk on chomp trying to press sunsteel or something. More importantly is the MASSIVE jet punch empoleon, this guy is actually so cool because chicken will sometimes minimize defense for nuking imposter reasons and get boomed or they'll go -1 with v-create while being lorb, you go emp and they assume you didn't see/you're praying for vc glaive drift or something, press cc, and instantly die or they'll even just be in on blaziken after throwing off a few lorb attacks, taking a bit of spikes or rocks chip, maybe they used staxe as entry, and BOOM free kill. Also does minor damage to for example chomper who takes around 20, which gets much larger after glaive/headlong/orb/status/hazards.

https://pokepast.es/2f9a6eaf41820f69

The first fc pert, also mass sap improof at the major downside of your entire team basically losing to ray (ladder loves ray). Also you get poisoned on melo and lose. I wouldn't advise using it but you can certainly try editing it a bit, could be a really heat team if you run surf -> steam for improofing and maybe change a few of the sets. Interesting base, I've never built anything that really resembles this 6 which makes me naturally want to tweak a bit. I might do that right after this post even.


Anyways, that's all the most recent teams in my builder on top of a very silly oversight in the obamasnow set. Thanks for reading, let's make sure this thread never becomes as... interesting... as the 7ph thread. Finally, I'd like to tell every new player not to use guts ursaluna with fakespeed, it will not stop your opponent's nukes as it threatens garchomp for example with a terrifying 20% fake out and struggles to actually make progress as you do nothing to basically any fc that's not ground weak (anyone loading mono-fc that's ground weak probably has steela anyways, that will also goob you) and having a mon with the express goal of swapping into u-turn while being statused is a really good way to include a nice sack. Surely something like mg mirai that's faster and ignores most everything from regenvest would be a better option.

 

[pannu]

as an apology to my friend Tbp24 for making fun of his wordy winpost to explain his prep / team, i am doing the same.

https://pokepast.es/f0f2c0742ff3746f

Ivar is ok at BH, but thats mainly bc hes a good clicker who understands the tiers intricacies. One of the biggest things i notice about him going into prep is that he overtly relies on the same mons / cores ALOT, always plays imp and loves to play shore up > sap. BH is also unfortunately quite a stale meta ATM and there is no reason to deviate from standard teamcomps unless youre fishing, which i didnt have to here.

Usually ivars wincons are outplaying opp with imp, TH arceus or some sorta breaker usually blaziken or some offensive flutter, he really loves fc korai, etern, ho-oh, ghostceus and magic bounce, so i knew a Hstack approach or sapblock + breaker were out of the question. The team i ended up with was this kinda weird Zac-C Balance W/ Chomp as a breaker to facilitate Zacian-C / Eleceus cleaning. I have scales eleceus as that is the most consistent you can be into TH arc without making a bad team (i TRIED to get unaware fairyceus to work, it simply did not lol result in comfy structures for me to play) Ting-lu regenvest gives me good removal and playing knock + eq lets me threaten ho-oh, etern and imp. My FC here is korai because i cant play waterceus and etern is too weak into chomp, so if i want to not lose on preview to chicken i needed korai, it also is a nice soft check to opposing scales arc with triple arrows flinching + mortal spin. Zacian is mon i love alot, here im playing it for its speed tier, notably above etern, korai and flutter + general annoying ness into alot of the FC's that ivar loves, especially korai, Stone Axe is played as i think zac is a very good mon at keeping hazards up (threatens basically every comon form of removal bar ctorque fighters and regensteels) and it also hits Ho-Oh quite hard. Steela is just a nice improof mon + secondary FC here to alliviate some pressure on korai and give myself a more reliable chomp/zacian check.

Overall, i think this team is quite bad, its designed to cteam ivar and as such many things here dont make alot of sense, most notably on that list would be this teams lack of sapblockers-- but ivar never plays sap so its fine, and imp has a high enough HP that either elecceus or steela should be able to keep it low-ish, thought i always go light on my improofing these days so take that with a grain of salt. For a more generalist version of this team, because i do think it has some solid ideas, consider dropping korai + steela for another 2 FC mons, you need to cover removal, sap block, and improofing zac/chomp with 2 mons, which i think is very doable. Just on the top of my head i think either etern + yveltal or slowbro + zama work sorta well in that regard