• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

Project Old Gen Hackmons Megathread

I think Manu11 is council x)
Anyways, the first thing to address is No Guard DeoS is absolutely broken. Hypnosis has more PPs then MCoat, so running Sub with it or simply just predicting the Opp will get you away.

Deoxys-Speed @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sheer Cold
- Hypnosis
- Gastro Acid
- Substitute

This set needs either Mold Rocks / Another NO GUARD DEOS for Rocks + Gastro + Sing + Sheer Cold.

Secondly, Prankster mons that run this set is incredibly decent:
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Nature Power
- Sleep Talk
- Heal Bell

As seen in Turn 24 of this game. The reason this set works well, is basically it's the equivalent of ORAS Tina but without the Normal immunity, and sleep is ridiculous this gen. NP gives Earthquake more PPs, while this set aims to counter sleep with Sleep Talk + Heal Bell and Encore if they set up. Great set. Tho it is recommended it should be paired up with another Mon with Priority.


Slaking @ Lum Berry
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn / Baton Pass
- Magic Coat
- Pursuit
- Extreme Speed

Yeah. Probably the best answer to No Guard DeoS anyways. Pursuit traps DeoS into a 50/50 while Magic Coat forces DeoS to 99% of the time switch. ORAS PH interaction.


Meloetta-Pirouette @ Lum Berry
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Extreme Speed
- Drain Punch
- Leaf Blade / Ice Shard / Protect / Any Filler

There's so many different sets for this Mon. Underrated because people keep using PSpirit. The 4th set is basically fishing their other WG or Protect when you think they run 1 WG. It's that simple.

Finally, WGs with Flame Orb is okay. Those are strictly for 1 WG teams and must run U-Turn. These mons might want Trick paired up with the Lando set above. This meta is really fast paced, so you better get momentum or the opponent might throw you off.

I'm also submitting this for samples: Dual NG Offense

Okay. I'm gonna post a more thorough analysis after exams. Bye.
Yeah Like Lycan said Melo is such a MU fish to be honest but this is a honest analysis and oh I wasn't aware that there were still BW Council members! are they still active in the community? and yeah like lycan said a Prankster Sleeptalk Mon is def good I also have a sample submission https://pokepast.es/c2e16f9b2ac34b45 this is a stall sample I also have a general offense sample https://pokepast.es/d7de6542cc6654c3 It has a similar set as Lycan's Lando-T but on don it's a dual Deo-s offense but it has Kyogre as the WG with Rapid spin and Hydro Pump the reason I chose Kyogre as it can tank 3 Dpulses from a +2 Ray which means is MEGA tanky this team has Moldy Ray with Draco Plate with Spacial rend and Flame Thrower there's also a Bdrum Fakespeed Prio Slaking with Moldy because well is broken op
 
Last edited:
Manu hasnt been online for quite some time, I think due to personal matters.
Teams look okay. There are a few issues imo.

Team 1: Good players should be able to exploit the Slaking having No Spore nor Taunt. Belly Drum is way too costly for any consistent team (might be usable in tours) and the first team is not Improofed. Soft Proof is fine, like Sub, but when opp copies MRay and win the Speed Tie, it is costly for you. Rayquaza is generally better with VCreate here, because there's a mon that's been generally underused, WG Blissey. Covering for that is pretty great. Dropping Spikes for Rocks is recommended for DeoS because if you can only fit one hazard, put Rocks. This applies to every meta except SVPH. Lando really diffs Groudon as a Prankster user because of Grounded Hazards and the occasional Fissure. Would recommend dropping Mold Slaking for a WG like Blissey/Slak or PSpirit. Team is weak to NG so you need another WG. Sleep is ridiculous. Just run dual Sheer Cold, there is no good weak-to-ground WG.

Team 2: I've personally tested Impostor, yeah, it WANTS LUM. It helps a LOT in those interactions. Ho-Oh is 4* weak to Rocks anyways, you could test out something like Toxic Orb Magic Guard. Bro can Trick WGs or Psycho Shift different mons. Normally this wouldn't be ideal because you would rather put stuff to sleep, but this team has no sleep due to the interest in making a Stall team. Alternatively, you could tryout Rapid Spin Mold Regigigas with Heal. Normally, you can't afford these but getting rid of hazards is great for these teams and you can pair it up with something like Spore + Rocks/Spikes. It's still a theory-mon but sounds decent in practice. We've done similar stuff in ORAS PH due to Glory inventing an annoying Spore+Spikes+Chatter+ObiWing set anyways. With that added, Pokestar can safely run Sheer Cold over Spin to actually KILL the No Guard Mon instead of playing mind games with it. Idk why Flash Fire Skarm, just run WG in that slot. For that Tina Slot, Tina is only for Balance teams due to it's only justified role being SubPass. I recommend a Trick Choice mon with Heal to actually pressure your opponent's threats.

OK back to exams, hf building, hopes this help
lemme make this quick Flash Fire Skarm baits sacred fire from an the impostor if they imp ho-oh plus it's a surprise Mon also Ig it does want lum either way both items can work in either scenario secondly I'm planning on posting a Imprison deo-s set to imprison a deo-s with sheer cold it's still a work in progress but still BWPH is still being rediscovered overall with new sets springing up and new mons seeing more use imo
 
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-2497793437 Okay Ima make another quick post this battle shows what happens when a team can't put enough pressure onto a team that has well built walls like Kyogre who is a MAJOR Special wall as it walls a +2 Dpulse from Rayquaza but also if the team can't find a meaningful way to put up rocks it kinda just folds when Kyogre is on preview tbf https://pokepast.es/a88afb774c7142b2 the team used in the Replay is not very different from the Pokepast one I'm posting here it's just that I made one Deo-s lefties and gave the other one rocks
 
Last edited:
Im also planning to build a stall team for a sample submission, however i believe lunala will make a better one than me due to having more overall experience of the gen. Toxic seems kinda wanted on a bwph stall coz of limited ways to do damage EDIT maybe on skarm coz it doesn’t get cooked by mbounce or mcoat
 
Last edited:
Im also planning to build a stall team for a sample submission, however i believe lunala will make a better one than me due to having more overall experience of the gen. Toxic seems kinda wanted on a bwph stall coz of limited ways to do damage
One simple thing Magic coat it literally cooks you or Mbounce or hell even Gengar make that less viable also Prankster with Heal bell that exists so like that makes it effectively pointless Hazard/Curse stack is the best way to do chip damage whille trying to to keep from deo-s setting up on you
 
Last edited:
https://pokepast.es/ef122bbc9813dcd2 Not gonna say much it's just a diff version of the stall team I alrdy posted
Im also planning to build a stall team for a sample submission, however i believe lunala will make a better one than me due to having more overall experience of the gen. Toxic seems kinda wanted on a bwph stall coz of limited ways to do damage EDIT maybe on skarm coz it doesn’t get cooked by mbounce or mcoat
I changed Tina for Dusknoir as it provides excellent bulk with a decent typing of pure ghost and since with a +SPD nature it can achieve 405 SPD and a nice near 400 DEF its certainly a powerful wall and since it's trick scarf it can greatly cripple opposing mons also made Ho-oh Mguard with Torb and Trick this is just a test but it might allow for an interesting and better way to cripple a Mon
 
In light of the OP and following post containing resources/directories being heavily outdated, I have now updated them to be accurate. Generation 5 Pure Hackmons has been getting some traction as of late but doesn't have an active leader or council looking over it right now. As a result I'll be looking over Generation 5 Pure Hackmons and running its resources for the time being until a dedicated council is established.
 
Hi, I am taking over GSC PH.

:ho-oh: GSC PH Resources Hub:lugia:
:suicune:
this meta is still pretty preliminary, so resources may change or become outdated unexpectedly

Viability Rankings
Pokémon are ordered by strength throughout all ranks. The links contain sample sets and short descriptions, though there's lots of set diversity in GSC. Some samples even use sets not shown in these links.


S Rank
S

:mewtwo: Mewtwo
:lugia: Lugia
:aerodactyl: Aerodactyl


A Rank
A+

:electrode: Electrode
:snorlax: Snorlax

A
:ho-oh: Ho-Oh
:tyranitar: Tyranitar
:steelix: Steelix

B Rank
B+

:skarmory: Skarmory
:raikou: Raikou
:suicune: Suicune
:gengar: Gengar
:jolteon: Jolteon

B
:magneton: Magneton
:scizor: Scizor
:celebi: Celebi
:rhydon: Rhydon

C Rank
:misdreavus:
Misdreavus

:blissey: Blissey
:marowak: Marowak
:quagsire: Quagsire

Sample Teams
I’m very open to sample submissions, anything that can hold vs common threats will do.

Icy Wind Ho-Oh Offense by adriancosmoem
:electrode::mewtwo::mewtwo::aerodactyl::snorlax::ho-oh:

Updated Triple Boom Offense by adriancosmoem
:electrode::mewtwo::mewtwo::mewtwo::aerodactyl::raikou:

Updated Bdrum Aero Balance by adriancosmoem and GhastlyPixie
:mewtwo::aerodactyl::mewtwo::suicune::lugia::snorlax:

Perish trap Celebi Balance by GhastlyPixie
:electrode::celebi::mewtwo::aerodactyl::ho-oh::lugia:
 
Last edited:
Gen 5 PH Personal VR (s/o Bytes for helping)

S:
:Deoxys-speed: ...............................No Guard (S), Shadow Tag (S-), Wonder Guard (S-), Mold Breaker (A)

S-:
:Landorus-Therian: ...............................Prankster (S-)
36931183-a1859bca-1e65-11e8-980f-08536bcf4caa.png
...............................Wonder Guard (S-)

A+:
:Gengar: ..............................Mold Breaker (A+)
:Regigigas: ..............................Huge Power (A+), Wonder Guard (A-)
:Slaking: ..............................Wonder Guard (A+), Huge Power (A+), Mold Breaker (B-)
:Giratina: ..............................Magic Bounce (A+), Prankster (B-)

A:
:Latios: .............................Mold Breaker (A)
:Blissey: .............................Lum/Scarf Impostor (A)


B+:
:Rayquaza: ............................Mold Breaker (B+)
:Chansey: ............................Impostor (B+)
:Electrode: ............................Wonder Guard (B+), Shadow Tag (B+)
:Groudon: ............................Prankster (B+), Mold Breaker (B-)

B:
:Arceus:..............................Wonder Guard (B), Shadow Tag (B), Mold Breaker (B-)
:Meloetta-Pirouette: .............................Scrappy (B)
:Kyogre:..............................Wonder Guard (B), Magic Bounce (B), Mold Breaker (B)
:Swampert:..............................Wonder Guard (B)
:Dialga:..............................Mold Breaker (B), Magic Bounce (B), Wonder Guard (B-)
:Registeel:..............................Magic Bounce (B)

B-:
:Froslass:..............................Shadow Tag (B-)
:Aerodactyl:..............................Shadow Tag (B-), Huge Power (C), Mold Breaker (C)
:Giratina-Origin:..............................Magic Bounce (B-)
:Skarmory:..............................Magic Bounce (B-), Wonder Guard (B-)
:Escavalier:..............................Wonder Guard (B-)

C:
:Latias:..............................Magic Bounce (C), Weather Setter (C)
:Weavile:..............................Magic Bounce (C)
:Ninjask:..............................Shadow Tag (C)
:Drifblim:..............................Mold Breaker (C), Magic Bounce (C)
:Ho-Oh:..............................Magic Guard (C), Magic Bounce (C)
:Thundurus-Therian:..............................Mold Breaker (C)
 
I have liked gen 5 PH for a while but haven't really had the chance to play due to it being pretty unpopular. Thankfully, it has gotten more attention recently and I have made some teams after winning like 5 tours in a row.

:Deoxys-Speed: :Slaking:
36931183-a1859bca-1e65-11e8-980f-08536bcf4caa.png
:Giratina: :Regigigas: :Deoxys-Speed:
1. https://pokepast.es/46bdb7e151a03b94 All In Slaking just as the name says, goes all in on getting slaking that really crucial sub so it can safely belly drum and sweep basically everything after that. There's not a lot of things being run currently that can easily stop this beast after setting up. HP Regi is there to save you if you can't get the sub to slaking quickly but it probably won't last long. VERY MU fishy team. You basically either win or lose on preview.

:Deoxys-Speed: :giratina: :Excadrill: :Chansey:
36931183-a1859bca-1e65-11e8-980f-08536bcf4caa.png
:latios:
2. https://pokepast.es/d55f643d44f16090 Hazard stack with prankster Exca that can kill a Slaking after it bdrums (if its at full HP) with some other support moves. Imposter Chansey is there for other sweepers that are immune to ground. Goal of the team is to get hazards up and abuse them with latios and Deoxys, while preventing them from being cleared with Giratina and Pokestar.

:Deoxys-Speed: :Aerodactyl: :Steelix: :Regigigas:
36931183-a1859bca-1e65-11e8-980f-08536bcf4caa.png
:Slaking:
3. https://pokepast.es/f228cbe1d7cb9877 Another sort of hazard stack that focuses on removing or just killing popular bounce mons with trick stag ensuring they cant use basically any move safely, and HP gigas with toxics spikes and icicle crash so bounce giratina cant really come in on it. Ssneak on MB slaking is for the Mold sweeper gengar I have been seeing a lot of lately. It still kinda loses to it if it gets a sub up but oh well.

Replays for the teams:

1. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-2498540079-xql4niasaavctvmdsd4bsf6v4jmfv5mpw (will replace this later)

2. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-2498317913?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-2498295668?p2

3. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-2498535275-kn0u97whghnb9lfy54rnun9u6vn4bmmpw
 
Last edited:
https://pokepast.es/69668256587d31a5 BWPH Rain Team + Hazard Stack as the name suggest it's a Rain Team with Hazards to stack it works like most formats rain teams in the idea that you wan't your weather to be the one that's active now in gen five like earlier gens before it weather remains active unless a different weather is activated or something like Base Ray comes into play but since this IS Ph that's highly unlikely more or less so your generally fine with keeping the rain up since it lasts forever this team is pretty dependent on keeping either Palkia or Kyogre alive but if you play it right then you should be fine while obvious threats include Grass Types/Electric types Mbreaker Slaking and obviously the menace of BWPH Deo-s mainly NG/Mbreaker with Sheer cold https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-2498985919 as seen in this battle you can make mistakes and as long as you play the switch ins right or set ups right you can still win now I obviously made a few mistakes in this battle but I still managed to win in the end now obviously the Deo-s was Mbreaker and NOT Ng so that also helped Aswell but like through and through Weather teams can hold some merit in BWPH ~ Viola ~ Lunala (Note Post Subject to changes)
 
Sample Submission time (as currently for as far as I'm aware the current samples are still outdated and the council for BWPH is still not set up yet I have two teams I will be posting) Team 1 RegiSlak Offense https://pokepast.es/10384461c401f942 the name suggests the teams whole idea get slaking into the position where it can sweep while having huge power regi to deal some real pesky pests LIIKE Deoxys-speed! cause deo-s rarely uses sash in gen five! Team 2 https://pokepast.es/92e5e1863ef2859f WG Conk + Ray As the name suggests it is a Wonder Guard Conkeldur and a Rayquaza! the conk makes for a good WG because it can well take Huge Power/Stag Regi's/Slak's by surprise while dishing out damage that can well OHKO to I believe 2HKO them while Ray is there as a heavy hitter this team is a bit harder to pilot then the first one but both have done pretty well in friendlies! ~ Viola ~ Lunala
 
:ss/eternatus-eternamax:
Heyo it's your friendly SwSh Pure Hackmons leader Ransei here bringing you a new announcement regarding the policies of this metagame. Earlier this year it was reminded to us that in the cartridge version of Pokemon Sword and Shield, Eternatus-Eternamax cannot be behind a Substitute without the game crashing. As a result, beginning in PHPL, a ruleset was added to form the complex ban of Eternatus-Eternamax + Substitute in order to make the metagame playable.

I didn't think much of this at first and it made sense but although I do not have Pokemon Sword or Shield, I've come to realize that this complex ban cannot work.

A case example is this PHPL battle against lag= bad: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8anythinggoes-2320881018

Preventing Eternamax from using Substitute does not prevent allies from using Substitute on their own and combining it with Baton Pass in order to pass Substitute to Eternatus-Eternamax, making this complex ban effectively redundant to its purpose of avoiding the crash scenario. From here, we are stuck with a few alternative options:

1) Ban Substitute
2) Ban Eternatus-Eternamax
3) Free Substitute on Eternamax and return the metagame back to its previous state.

Banning Substitute would prevent the crash scenario from being simulated on Pokemon Showdown, but it comes with the issue of preventing all Pokemon in the metagame from using Substitute just for what's at the fault of one Pokemon. This would also defy the concept of Pure Hackmons, as you can still give hack any Pokemon to be given Substitute and use Substitute normally in the game without any form of repercussion. Additionally, Smogon tiering frequently promotes the idea that if the problem is strictly one Pokemon as opposed to the move, the Pokemon itself is to get banned. It would make more sense to ban Eternatus-Eternamax than to ban Substitute from all Pokemon due to Eternatus-Eternamax as the sole problem.

Edit: Banning Substitute + Baton Pass as a whole would prevent other Pokemon from subpassing into non-Eternamax, filtering out more than what's necessary to avoid the crash. Similar problem to banning Substitute.

Banning Eternatus-Eternamax would be banning a full on Pokemon, and the issue with this in a Pure Hackmons metagame is much more obvious...

Therefore we are left with the third option, being to free Substitute and return the metagame back to its previous state. This option still technically falls within the concept of Pure Hackmons, anything directly hackable onto a set and is usable in local battles is allowed. One can still technically hack Substitute on Eternamax and use it in local battle. The core issue lies in an unintentional effect coming from the interaction of Eternatus-Eternamax and Substitute. Assuming the game runs as normal, Eternatus-Eternamax would be able to run Substitute and use it normally without the game breaking and the battle carries on from there.

This third option is left more plausible because no matter how hard Pokémon Showdown tries to replicate the cartridge as much as possible, it is still fundamentally its own game with its own differences that aren't replicated on the cart. Pokémon Showdown does not replicate perfectly, 1:1. Features such as Endless Battle Clause and HP % Modifiers are primary examples of this, but there's also other visual differences such as Gen 7's CFZs being shown in name and animation despite this not being the case on cart, and Pokémon Showdown's tooltips. We also have the lack of implementation of pre-status in Generation 1 formats, the lack of implementation of glitches such as Acid Rain in Gen 4 formats, and even in some cases, decisions made entirely to run the PvP battle scene in a way that's objectively more playable. Earlier this year, Pokémon Showdown moved from utilizing the RNG of main series games to running on its own RNG due to exploits found that could seriously impact all competitive play for the worse. See: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/on-rng.3758023/

With all that being said, the only way to make Generation 8 Pure Hackmons still playable while being kept as Pure Hackmons is to unban Substitute and to embrace one of Pokémon Showdown's core purposes. Pokémon Showdown is designed to replicate main series battles and then enhance on them for an even better battling experience! This is the reason all of these aforementioned differences between Showdown and the cart exist! We can simulate Gen 8 Pure Hackmons battles and play them in a way where Substitute is used as intended and does not cause the game to crash.


tl;dr and overall announcement: Because the Eternatus + Substitute ban is redundant to its purpose of preventing Eternatus-Eternamax from being behind Substitute, no alternative ban can be made without ruining the concept of Pure Hackmons, the Substitute crash is of an unintended consequence, and Pokémon Showdown has proven to support some diversions in cart accuracy either to make Pokémon more playable for everyone or to enhance the experience of Pokémon battling, as a nice and lovely Christmas present, I am giving an honorable plushie to our great purple dragon Eternatus-Eternamax. Merry Christmas to Eternamax and to all of you reading this post.


Substitute + Eternatus-Eternamax is now unbanned from Gen 8 Pure Hackmons.


How does this affect the metagame? Well uh, everyone can use this 112-0 team from aerobee again! https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/are-you-feeling-lucky-pure-hackmons-112-0.3720560/
 
Last edited:
Back
Top