Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

[Dreadfury]

...on second thought, let's forget I ever mentioned Mienshao in my original post.

 

[Smashburn]

Aside from the Mienshao brain drain please don't speak its name again, what are some resources you use when learning about the meta and trends? is there something you feel a lot of other people don't know that you would like to share?

Running out of subjects to discuss, maybe spice things up and ban Weavile?

 

[Finchinator]

Running out of subjects to discuss, maybe spice things up and ban Weavile?

Nah

 

[Finchinator]

But we will likely have a survey later next month

 

[Your Pretty Sus]

Been experimenting with a Defensive Tapu-Bulu set for a while.

Bulu's shear bulk and threat from STAB boosted Horn leech can often create an opening to place a sub during a switch. This can lead to some leech seed shenanigans which is very difficult to answer.
With grassy terrain and leftovers generating a base 12.5% HP recovery, and a possible addition of leech seed/ Hornleech recovery makes Bulu very difficult to phase out. Thus usually requiring Poison attacks, or super effective/choice specs SpA's to do enough damage to threaten Bulu, making switch in predictions very easy to account for. In my experience, few sets carry the poison attacks needed to stop Bulu, making Bulu a very safe switch in for most matches. For the Poison/ Kartana threats, Magnezone clears these checks with ease, leading to a very effective Def core.

Further research of EV's may improve SpD capabilities but I haven't done any.

TLDR
A defensive Tapu-Bulu makes for a good check to prominent physical attackers and can out heal damage from a majority of SpA Mons. Very difficult to safely check once a sub is up.

Fails to check Kartana, and anything carrying Poison Attacks, IE (Magnezone Time)

Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Toxic
- Horn Leech
- Substitute

First post so apologies anything I do wrong.

 

[Endrism]

Been experimenting with a Defensive Tapu-Bulu set for a while.

Bulu's shear bulk and threat from STAB boosted Horn leech can often create an opening to place a sub during a switch. This can lead to some leech seed shenanigans which is very difficult to answer.
With grassy terrain and leftovers generating a base 12.5% HP recovery, and a possible addition of leech seed/ Hornleech recovery makes Bulu very difficult to phase out. Thus usually requiring Poison attacks, or super effective/choice specs SpA's to do enough damage to threaten Bulu, making switch in predictions very easy to account for. In my experience, few sets carry the poison attacks needed to stop Bulu, making Bulu a very safe switch in for most matches. For the Poison/ Kartana threats, Magnezone clears these checks with ease, leading to a very effective Def core.

Further research of EV's may improve SpD capabilities but I haven't done any.

TLDR
A defensive Tapu-Bulu makes for a good check to prominent physical attackers and can out heal damage from a majority of SpA Mons. Very difficult to safely check once a sub is up.

Fails to check Kartana, and anything carrying Poison Attacks, IE (Magnezone Time)

Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Toxic
- Horn Leech
- Substitute

First post so apologies anything I do wrong.

For a first post its great! Its a pretty funny coincidence because I've been experimenting with Bulky Bulu myself, and was starting to prep a VR nom. SubSeedToxic is great, but Ferro becomes a HUGE issue imo. You literally do absolutely nothing to the man. Heatran can also be a small problem in the long run with it being immune to toxic, and it just recovers off leech seed damage with Lefties + Terrain.

A much more interesting, and absolutely HILARIOUS option is this:


Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Atk / 132 SpD or 132 Def
Careful or Impish Nature
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Focus Punch
- Horn Leech

THATS RIGHT BAYBEE. SUB-SEED-PUNCH. Have you ever wanted to catch a Heatran off guard and absolutely obliterate its very soul, well boy do I have the set for you. With just 124 attack investment you can absolutely decimate Offensive Tran, and unlike Toxic sets, you can also smack a Ferrothorn off the face of Galar.

Now I know what you are saying, "Isn't Close Combat just better in this scenario?" and Funny story. Nope. In this very specific scenario, I believe Focus Punch is justified over CC because you have to invest a lot more into attack to kill Tran, and even the 2HKO is missed by 124 ATK Bulu on Ferro. With Focus Punch all you need is rocks chip and Heatran falls in 1 hit, and Ferro will fall in 2, but Ferro never gets 2HKOd by CC, and Heatran avoids the OHKO. Crazy stuff. Using Focus Punch also allows you to run more defensive investment, letting you live more hits.

With that 132 Defense, you can actually live a Weavile's non-banded Triple Axel, and fire off an up to 87% Horn Leech in return, healing 1/3rd of your health back, then recovering with lefties and grassy terrain before swapping. That interaction could nullify Weavile as a Pult swap in setting up a clean for later. Alternatively, 132 Special Defense lets you feel a lot safer around Pult shadow balls, actually being a roll to 3HKO with the SpDef investment, which is otherwise a roll to 2HKO. Although both of those are still not full checks since you don't want to have to check Weavile or Pult with Bulu, it becomes a backup option in a scary scenario.

Despite seeming like a meme on the surface this set has brought me some great moments, as it just jukes its "checks". Zapdos' will come in, and while it can break your sub and quickly kill you, just click leech seed, recover to full, and swap out like nothing happened. Sub is amazing for scouting choice users while still allowing bulu to heal back the damage it took from Sub with the Lefties + Grassy + Leech. Once Bulu is behind a sub it really doesn't have to worry unless its Weavile's triple axel, Pults infiltrator, or Cloysters Icicle spears. Otherwise just come in on something that can't break your sub, sub up on the swap, leech seed as they break the sub, then just swap like nothing happened with leech seed healing comin to whoever is comin in.

TL:DR: Despite seeming fringe, Focus Punch helps Bulu break through Tran and Ferro while keeping decent offensive pressure without sacrificing too much defensive investment. SubSeed Bulu in general is really strong, and great at stallbreaking, or just making your opponent hate your entire existence.

 

[Attack on Samurott]

Got back to playing OU again after like six to seven months. During that time, I was mainly playing old gen OUs and lower tier Gen 8 stuff. To me, the meta doesn't really feel like it changed too much in that time span. Just became a lot more physically-oriented. I did like seeing some new stuff pop off like Volcanion and Air Balloon Heatran, just to name a few of these. Overall with the pacing of the meta, it feels almost like the early Crown Tundra stages except there's still a lot of repetitive cores (e. Weavile BO, rain, balance, HO etc) Don't see as much stall these days but yeah the meta feels kind of fun. But the Pokemon that has surprised me the most recently has been Regieleki. That thing is a monster once the ground type has been removed. This meta has so many different ways to dismantle ground types that Regieleki sweeps are practically guaranteed in most cases. Not even just that but the fact it outspeeds all the common choice scarfers making this one of the most dangerous sweepers in the game. Of course, since Regieleki is incredibly frail, it is easy to revenge kill it so its sweeps can be stopped if played well or you just don't let your ground type die lol. Been enjoying the boots set so far and definitely want to try some other sets with this.

Another Pokemon, more typing that I think was underrated throughout this whole generation, was Normal types. I was thinking back on how the very start of SWSH, there was very little thought about Normal types being used which makes sense since the early stages of SWSH had threats on threats on threats (Dracovish, G-Darm, Dmax all that bs). Stuff like Conkeldurr was extremely popular too at that time. At that time though, Ghost were very popular as well. The main counter measure to them was mainly Dark types like Mandibuzz for example. I just think looking at it now, wouldn't it have been interesting to experiment more with immunities at that time? There were fairly strong Normal types at that point like Diggersby and Obstagoon for example, even Bewear was around during that time too. I get why Normals never really had a place in the meta anyways cause they're neutral to everything and are hit super effectively by one of the most common typings right now, but that Ghost immunity just seemed too good to miss out on. I definitely regret not using the Normal types more in this metagame as a whole.

That's why I've been experimenting with Bewear recently. Same typing as Mega Lop minus all the good stuff it has like priority, speed etc. That fact that its ability Fluffy allows it to cut damage from contact moves just feels great in this meta. The mon can take on a large majority of the physical attackers like Kart/Weavile/Melm etc and just smack 'em hard with CC. Another cool thing about Bewear is that its STAB hits everything and its coverage options hit its checks (Ghost/Rock/Steel). I've tried two sets so far with it from Life Orb SD to Choice Band and they've all worked fairly well. Life Orb SD has been fairly easy to set up with. Had the most success setting up early game or in a mid-game position, but a lot of the time, I just hit whatever comes in lmfaooo! Really this mon just hits hard af! Choice Band is just a nuke! I run Darkest Lariat to cover for the Pult/Blace switch on all of my Bewear sets. Ice Punch is good as well for covering Lando/Chomp but Double Edge is just enough overall in those cases.

Gonna share replays of Bewear. I'll probably update this with more Bewear stuff, but yeah definitely I encourage more people to try out Normal types before the metagame ends.

Choice Band
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1574316120-v3renza4ykht8nm7nsb4qw1xgx8amvtpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1574311903-v9psnsog2s8dfo8ux3alseio6uv18wspw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1577795472-jupmwoqbitqfch116jw9gtbtm8p847wpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1574311903-v9psnsog2s8dfo8ux3alseio6uv18wspw

Life Orb
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1428575915-okczwoi99kufrzqnrt3nvbuq4hxpnippw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1428543347-5ezsm6o3ctuamjsrn56yl12woegzoumpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1577804175-ebhie98tiz3jbwcz10m3ca3t0cwfbkdpw

 

[blooclipse]

Got back to playing OU again after like six to seven months. During that time, I was mainly playing old gen OUs and lower tier Gen 8 stuff. To me, the meta doesn't really feel like it changed too much in that time span. Just became a lot more physically-oriented. I did like seeing some new stuff pop off like Volcanion and Air Balloon Heatran, just to name a few of these. Overall with the pacing of the meta, it feels almost like the early Crown Tundra stages except there's still a lot of repetitive cores (e. Weavile BO, rain, balance, HO etc) Don't see as much stall these days but yeah the meta feels kind of fun. But the Pokemon that has surprised me the most recently has been Regieleki. That thing is a monster once the ground type has been removed. This meta has so many different ways to dismantle ground types that Regieleki sweeps are practically guaranteed in most cases. Not even just that but the fact it outspeeds all the common choice scarfers making this one of the most dangerous sweepers in the game. Of course, since Regieleki is incredibly frail, it is easy to revenge kill it so its sweeps can be stopped if played well or you just don't let your ground type die lol. Been enjoying the boots set so far and definitely want to try some other sets with this.

Another Pokemon, more typing that I think was underrated throughout this whole generation, was Normal types. I was thinking back on how the very start of SWSH, there was very little thought about Normal types being used which makes sense since the early stages of SWSH had threats on threats on threats (Dracovish, G-Darm, Dmax all that bs). Stuff like Conkeldurr was extremely popular too at that time. At that time though, Ghost were very popular as well. The main counter measure to them was mainly Dark types like Mandibuzz for example. I just think looking at it now, wouldn't it have been interesting to experiment more with immunities at that time? There were fairly strong Normal types at that point like Diggersby and Obstagoon for example, even Bewear was around during that time too. I get why Normals never really had a place in the meta anyways cause they're neutral to everything and are hit super effectively by one of the most common typings right now, but that Ghost immunity just seemed too good to miss out on. I definitely regret not using the Normal types more in this metagame as a whole.

That's why I've been experimenting with Bewear recently. Same typing as Mega Lop minus all the good stuff it has like priority, speed etc. That fact that its ability Fluffy allows it to cut damage from contact moves just feels great in this meta. The mon can take on a large majority of the physical attackers like Kart/Weavile/Melm etc and just smack 'em hard with CC. Another cool thing about Bewear is that its STAB hits everything and its coverage options hit its checks (Ghost/Rock/Steel). I've tried two sets so far with it from Life Orb SD to Choice Band and they've all worked fairly well. Life Orb SD has been fairly easy to set up with. Had the most success setting up early game or in a mid-game position, but a lot of the time, I just hit whatever comes in lmfaooo! Really this mon just hits hard af! Choice Band is just a nuke! I run Darkest Lariat to cover for the Pult/Blace switch on all of my Bewear sets. Ice Punch is good as well for covering Lando/Chomp but Double Edge is just enough overall in those cases.

Gonna share replays of Bewear. I'll probably update this with more Bewear stuff, but yeah definitely I encourage more people to try out Normal types before the metagame ends.

Choice Band
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1574316120-v3renza4ykht8nm7nsb4qw1xgx8amvtpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1574311903-v9psnsog2s8dfo8ux3alseio6uv18wspw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1577795472-jupmwoqbitqfch116jw9gtbtm8p847wpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1574311903-v9psnsog2s8dfo8ux3alseio6uv18wspw

Life Orb
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1428575915-okczwoi99kufrzqnrt3nvbuq4hxpnippw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1428543347-5ezsm6o3ctuamjsrn56yl12woegzoumpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1577804175-ebhie98tiz3jbwcz10m3ca3t0cwfbkdpw

That team looks really fun! If you don't mind, could you drop the paste?

Anyway, Bewear. A base 125 attack stat doesn't seem like anything special, but when banded and with its strong base power moves, it hits deceptively hard. I went to the calc and played around with it, and honestly I'm surprised.

bewear of this big wall of bewear calcs

252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 153-181 (50.3 - 59.5%)
252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 199-235 (49.7 - 58.7%)
252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 193-228 (48.9 - 57.8%)
252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 56 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 140-165 (36.3 - 42.8%)
252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Buzzwole: 175-207 (41.8 - 49.5%)
252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Darkest Lariat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragapult: 340-402 (107.2 - 126.8%)
252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ferrothorn: 452-534 (128.4 - 151.7%)
252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowking: 342-403 (86.8 - 102.2%)
252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 1034-1220 (144.8 - 170.8%)
252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Clefable: 291-343 (73.8 - 87%)
252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 229-270 (58.1 - 68.5%)
252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 327-385 (116.3 - 137%)
252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 542-642 (140.4 - 166.3%)
252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 136 Def Garchomp: 259-306 (61.6 - 72.8%)
252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Landorus-Therian: 400-472 (104.7 - 123.5%)
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Landorus-Therian: 268-316 (70.1 - 82.7%)
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 348-412 (91 - 107.8%)
252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 452-534 (174.5 - 206.1%)
252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Close Combat vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 420-494 (100.2 - 117.8%)
252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 205-243 (63.4 - 75.2%)
252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Tapu Fini: 195-231 (56.6 - 67.1%)
252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tornadus-Therian: 342-403 (94.4 - 111.3%)
252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 246-289 (67.7 - 79.6%)
252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 220 Def Zapdos: 258-304 (67.3 - 79.3%)
252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zeraora: 363-427 (114.5 - 134.7%)
252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 156 Def Volcarona: 330-388 (88.4 - 104%)
252 Atk Choice Band Bewear Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 286-337 (83.8 - 98.8%)

Obviously, this is Jolly. Adamant does even more.

 

[Morkal]

Been experimenting with a Defensive Tapu-Bulu set for a while.

Bulu's shear bulk and threat from STAB boosted Horn leech can often create an opening to place a sub during a switch. This can lead to some leech seed shenanigans which is very difficult to answer.
With grassy terrain and leftovers generating a base 12.5% HP recovery, and a possible addition of leech seed/ Hornleech recovery makes Bulu very difficult to phase out. Thus usually requiring Poison attacks, or super effective/choice specs SpA's to do enough damage to threaten Bulu, making switch in predictions very easy to account for. In my experience, few sets carry the poison attacks needed to stop Bulu, making Bulu a very safe switch in for most matches. For the Poison/ Kartana threats, Magnezone clears these checks with ease, leading to a very effective Def core.

Further research of EV's may improve SpD capabilities but I haven't done any.

TLDR
A defensive Tapu-Bulu makes for a good check to prominent physical attackers and can out heal damage from a majority of SpA Mons. Very difficult to safely check once a sub is up.

Fails to check Kartana, and anything carrying Poison Attacks, IE (Magnezone Time)

Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Toxic
- Horn Leech
- Substitute

First post so apologies anything I do wrong.

Hey there! This was a fantastic first post, keep up the good work! Tapu Bulu is an underrated mon; the problem why people keep saying Rillaboom outclasses it is because people keep trying to use it like Rillaboom. Subseed sets like yours are the way to go, and the Dragon immunity / Fighting resistance is especially notable. Taking advantage of its bulk and defensive profile is something that Rillaboom can't do properly.

For a first post its great! Its a pretty funny coincidence because I've been experimenting with Bulky Bulu myself, and was starting to prep a VR nom. SubSeedToxic is great, but Ferro becomes a HUGE issue imo. You literally do absolutely nothing to the man. Heatran can also be a small problem in the long run with it being immune to toxic, and it just recovers off leech seed damage with Lefties + Terrain.

A much more interesting, and absolutely HILARIOUS option is this:


Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Atk / 132 SpD or 132 Def
Careful or Impish Nature
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Focus Punch
- Horn Leech

THATS RIGHT BAYBEE. SUB-SEED-PUNCH. Have you ever wanted to catch a Heatran off guard and absolutely obliterate its very soul, well boy do I have the set for you. With just 124 attack investment you can absolutely decimate Offensive Tran, and unlike Toxic sets, you can also smack a Ferrothorn off the face of Galar.

Now I know what you are saying, "Isn't Close Combat just better in this scenario?" and Funny story. Nope. In this very specific scenario, I believe Focus Punch is justified over CC because you have to invest a lot more into attack to kill Tran, and even the 2HKO is missed by 124 ATK Bulu on Ferro. With Focus Punch all you need is rocks chip and Heatran falls in 1 hit, and Ferro will fall in 2, but Ferro never gets 2HKOd by CC, and Heatran avoids the OHKO. Crazy stuff. Using Focus Punch also allows you to run more defensive investment, letting you live more hits.

With that 132 Defense, you can actually live a Weavile's non-banded Triple Axel, and fire off an up to 87% Horn Leech in return, healing 1/3rd of your health back, then recovering with lefties and grassy terrain before swapping. That interaction could nullify Weavile as a Pult swap in setting up a clean for later. Alternatively, 132 Special Defense lets you feel a lot safer around Pult shadow balls, actually being a roll to 3HKO with the SpDef investment, which is otherwise a roll to 2HKO. Although both of those are still not full checks since you don't want to have to check Weavile or Pult with Bulu, it becomes a backup option in a scary scenario.

Despite seeming like a meme on the surface this set has brought me some great moments, as it just jukes its "checks". Zapdos' will come in, and while it can break your sub and quickly kill you, just click leech seed, recover to full, and swap out like nothing happened. Sub is amazing for scouting choice users while still allowing bulu to heal back the damage it took from Sub with the Lefties + Grassy + Leech. Once Bulu is behind a sub it really doesn't have to worry unless its Weavile's triple axel, Pults infiltrator, or Cloysters Icicle spears. Otherwise just come in on something that can't break your sub, sub up on the swap, leech seed as they break the sub, then just swap like nothing happened with leech seed healing comin to whoever is comin in.

TL:DR: Despite seeming fringe, Focus Punch helps Bulu break through Tran and Ferro while keeping decent offensive pressure without sacrificing too much defensive investment. SubSeed Bulu in general is really strong, and great at stallbreaking, or just making your opponent hate your entire existence.

Focus Punch is a really underrated tech, I'm going to give this a try myself. I had honestly completely forgotten that Bulu got access to Focus Punch.

 

[Moyashi]

Been experimenting with a Defensive Tapu-Bulu set for a while.

Bulu's shear bulk and threat from STAB boosted Horn leech can often create an opening to place a sub during a switch. This can lead to some leech seed shenanigans which is very difficult to answer.
With grassy terrain and leftovers generating a base 12.5% HP recovery, and a possible addition of leech seed/ Hornleech recovery makes Bulu very difficult to phase out. Thus usually requiring Poison attacks, or super effective/choice specs SpA's to do enough damage to threaten Bulu, making switch in predictions very easy to account for. In my experience, few sets carry the poison attacks needed to stop Bulu, making Bulu a very safe switch in for most matches. For the Poison/ Kartana threats, Magnezone clears these checks with ease, leading to a very effective Def core.

Further research of EV's may improve SpD capabilities but I haven't done any.

TLDR
A defensive Tapu-Bulu makes for a good check to prominent physical attackers and can out heal damage from a majority of SpA Mons. Very difficult to safely check once a sub is up.

Fails to check Kartana, and anything carrying Poison Attacks, IE (Magnezone Time)

Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Toxic
- Horn Leech
- Substitute

First post so apologies anything I do wrong.

In general I find Bulu underrated and it has more positive qualities, but with the rapidly increasingly aggressive and offensive nature of the meta right now I wonder how well it could fit onto structures atm. I dunno. I've tried AV sets and it kinda works sometimes (and it's funny when opponents expect a free kill with their Volcarona or Blacephalon and get stone edged). But... I dunno. Maybe I'm missing something and if so please do share. I'd love to work more with it. On the subject of the more offensive metagame...

There's been a noticeable uptick in various types of HO teams lately on ladder, particularly screens offense teams which are most commonly spearheaded by Alolan Ninetales. Depending on the kind of team you run, it can be pretty challenging to actually stop it from getting up aurora veil and getting its teammates in position. Its utility toolkit and great typing serve it well, from encore and hypnosis to using its dual stabs to deter certain defoggers. And it supports a lot of amazing wincons/sweepers in general. So with that in mind I pose the question:

Are these types of screens teams common in your experience?
What teams do you usually run, and do they have any struggles vs these teams?
And lastly what do you think about the increase in such teams?

 

[clementinabroccolina]

In general I find Bulu underrated and it has more positive qualities, but with the rapidly increasingly aggressive and offensive nature of the meta right now I wonder how well it could fit onto structures atm. I dunno. I've tried AV sets and it kinda works sometimes (and it's funny when opponents expect a free kill with their Volcarona or Blacephalon and get stone edged). But... I dunno. Maybe I'm missing something and if so please do share. I'd love to work more with it. On the subject of the more offensive metagame...

View attachment 426603​

There's been a noticeable uptick in various types of HO teams lately on ladder, particularly screens offense teams which are most commonly spearheaded by Alolan Ninetales. Depending on the kind of team you run, it can be pretty challenging to actually stop it from getting up aurora veil and getting its teammates in position. Its utility toolkit and great typing serve it well, from encore and hypnosis to using its dual stabs to deter certain defoggers. And it supports a lot of amazing wincons/sweepers in general. So with that in mind I pose the question:

Are these types of screens teams common in your experience?
What teams do you usually run, and do they have any struggles vs these teams?
And lastly what do you think about the increase in such teams?

I've touched on it a bit before but it's not something that I'm particularly fond of

In my experience, these teams have been fairly common for a while but I think I'm seeing more of them than I used to or maybe I'm just remembering them more with the recent viability rankings.

I usually run BO/ Hard offense and am not really someone that plays much hyper offense, and so my own lack of playing experience with veil offense could be why I find these teams so hard to deal with. I feel like I'm constantly having to risk 50/50s and veil offense is just making this already aggressively oriented tier feel very matchup fishy (which I've also talked about). Stopping Alolatales from getting up a veil is easier said than done, and while stuff like Ttar and Heatran can really scare it, there's also a 60% chance that you'll just lose a mon while trying to deal with it and scarf fini also will just force a switch since Fini is kind of an exploitable scarfer if you try and get away with taunting it (and if it gets tricked on a veil it already did its job so oof lol). Volcarona under veil is also one of the most scary and frustrating things to fight, especially 2attacks+roost

I don't really think these sorts of teams are very good for the meta. OU is in a bit of a weird place right now with the "my offense is less matchup fishy than your offense" teambuilding wars and I've just never found Alolatales to be a very healthy pokemon, even if it's probably never going to be suspected because of the inherent limitations of relying on veil. I don't think it makes ladder feel very fun though, and when ladder in lower tiers is so bad it's just like... wow nothing is sacred rip.

I don't even think I have very many good arguments about Alolatales that aren't just "I hate fighting this thing and the teams it's in" so this is basically all bias

 

[ausma]

Hello everyone, a very interesting discussion prompt came up in the SS OU Viability Rankings thread; I mentioned that it was a discussion not meant for there, but it is one we 100% would love to see more of, so here's me bumping it here instead!

The question in particular was: what, in your eyes, are the tier's current top 10 Pokemon?

We encourage that you explain your thought process with your decision making! So, when explaining your placements, consider questions such as:

1: Why do you feel this Pokemon belongs in the top 10?
2: Why does this Pokemon deserve its particular placement? How about compared to its competition?
3: How does this Pokemon operate in the SS OU metagame, and what attributes does it have that make so particularly effective?

 

[Yuri_z9]

Does it have to be in order?

I only ordered top 3:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10. Probably or

 

[Endrism]

The question in particular was: what, in your eyes, are the tier's current top 10 Pokemon?

We encourage that you explain your thought process with your decision making! So, when explaining your placements, consider questions such as:

1: Why do you feel this Pokemon belongs in the top 10?
2: Why does this Pokemon deserve its particular placement? How about compared to its competition?
3: How does this Pokemon operate in the SS OU metagame, and what attributes does it have that make so particularly effective?

Aight I'll take a crack at this:

1. Weavile

I know Lando-T is super splashable, but Weavile is just stupid potent. Every team you have to have 2 Weavile checks or you will get abused and cleaned by the little ice gremlin. Runs SD with Priority, Low Kick, Banded with Low Kick, Banded Beat Up, and all of them are stupid potent and disgustingly dangerous.

2. Heatran

OK OK, I know, however Heatran has really spiked in popularity lately. This thing has become EXTREMELY splashable. Air Balloon Tran's usually end up playing mirror matches of "Who can break the balloon first", and once the balloon is broke the other Tran gains a huge advantage. Checks so many things have solid 91/106/106 defensive spread, access to taunt and Magma Storm to trap and kill things like Pex, or can run stealth rocks being one of the top 3 at setting them.

3. Landorus-Therian

Yeah.

4. Ferrothorn

Annoying spikey boy. Sets all kinds of hazards, messes with people using leech seed, solid coverage in Gyro Ball, Power Whip, and Knock Off adding some utility. Grass/Steel is a fantastic typing, Iron Barbs is infuriating. Beautiful mon.

T5. Dragapult

Tough decision here so I tied for 5th. Specs Pult is scary, but definitely isnt a top 3 threat anymore. Still always nice to have a solid check for Pult.

T5. Tornadus-Therian

Very splashable, great defogger, AV has spiked in usage, and I tend to just slap this on teams when I need some extra bulk. Hurricanes hit hard, Knock Off utility, and Regenerator is busted as always.

7. Buzzwole

My first underrated pick here. Buzz is a blanket check to almost every physical attacker in the meta. Can be offensive based with really strong CCs and Ice Punches or run defensive rocky helmet and laugh at Weavile. Roost is incredible utility for a mon this bulky. Deserves better than it gets.

8. Slowbro

Has really become the king of the bulky waters. Pex is definitely still great, but Bro is a bulky psychic that still checks Weavile. That takes a lot of bulk to pull that off. FuturePort support is always nice. Incredible pivot with Teleport. Ice Beam, Body Press, and Scald all extremely useful, Slack Off for easy recovery, and on top of that Regenerator.. busted as always.

9. Melmetal

Big bulky steel blob that ABSOLUTELY ANNIHILATES things. DIB is so dangerous it's ridiculous, especially when banded. AV makes it stupid bulky, can run Thunder Wave to get some walls below its speed tier so it begins to threaten that solid 50% flinch of DIB. This thing isn't too easy to fit on a team, but when it fits it HURTS, and I'm always nervous around a Melmetal.

10. Clefable

Magic Guard, can be a rock setter, Calm Mind sweeper, wishport cleric, Knock user, bulky fairy type. All extremely good things. Just pivots around, dealing good damage, bulking hits, and is just generally a great mon to have on your team.

 

[Red Raven]

Hello everyone, a very interesting discussion prompt came up in the SS OU Viability Rankings thread; I mentioned that it was a discussion not meant for there, but it is one we 100% would love to see more of, so here's me bumping it here instead!

The question in particular was: what, in your eyes, are the tier's current top 10 Pokemon?

We encourage that you explain your thought process with your decision making! So, when explaining your placements, consider questions such as:

1: Why do you feel this Pokemon belongs in the top 10?
2: Why does this Pokemon deserve its particular placement? How about compared to its competition?
3: How does this Pokemon operate in the SS OU metagame, and what attributes does it have that make so particularly effective?

I changed mine from the last time I posted something like this since I've played quite a bit. From one to ten, mine are



When it comes to personal teambuilding, this mon is like the ninth one that I would ever consider. It just doesn't fit my current playstyle at all because it just does so many things at once it can sometimes get overwhelmed rather easily. But, I also understand where others are coming from and that's why I rank this one this high



Yeah, lava frog is second for me. Offensive balloon completely shuts down its standard magma trapper set and its standard set is very obnoxious. That 4x ground weakness is pretty much forgiveable because it also has a ton of 4x resist. As many have said in the vr, this thing just forces a ton of progress in most games



Ice ninja comes in third. It compresses a lot of roles in speed control, knock off and cleaner in just one set. I don't really use choice band because I hate it but the standard set really fits my own playstyle



Land shark is fourth for me and if it wasn't for the top two, this one would be second or third. What's there to say. This mon is probably the scariest sweeper in the tier, it can wallbreak really hard by stacking on coverage and dropping scale shot, and I've been using a four attacks life orb set which threatens to two shot nearly every defensive core with the appropriate move.



Everybody knows about this mon and I want it banned almost as much as I want boots and magnet pull banned. It's not broken or uncompetitive but jesus christ is this thing so obnoxious. I hate this mon so much and it makes me enjoy mix Chomp more because I know I just burn this thing. Ranting aside, insane defensive typing, obnoxious tools, hazards, an even more obnoxious ability. This mon is easily among the best



Ahh, once the subject of much controversy. The days when every other post in this thread was filled with ban Dragapult feels like only yesterday when it was nearly a year ago. Fast, decently strong and incredible stab combination. The only reason this isn't the best mon for me is that the tier has just adapted to its presence fairly well and it really needs some spdef drops before it can beat the mons that have adapted to its presence



This pokemon is almost as obnoxious as that annoying durian. Speed is really good, utility in knock off and u turn, and even regenerator. This mon is also why I hate boots. Its speed and regenerator becomes really obnoxious for just scouting everything whereas last gen, it couldn't mindlessly scout if rocks were on because most strong attacks + rocks straight up kills it. I don't think Tornadus needs any more explanation because its Tornadus



When you've got an attack stat that's higher than Mega Rayquaza, you know its a legit threat. The only major downside of this is of all the typings it could get, it just had to be the two that are the worst offensively. Other than that, I think this mon is the best scarfer because of speed and ability, it's probably tied with Garchomp as the best swords danceer and it is very strong with a choice band. Nothing much else to say. If you don't quad resist its stab, its probably gonna deal thirty percent damage which is just ridiculous



The og birb claims this spot. While defensive sets are still rather good, offensive ones are really strong. The only reason I don't rank it higher is compared to Tornadus, it just can't scout at all. On the flip side, this is probably the single best counter to Tornadus in the tier. It's very satisfying to watch a Tornadus try to be annoying only to get paralyzed and even Kartana has a miserable time against Zapdos. Like with Tornadus however, Zapdos does have to rely on a very accurate hurricane and that also contributes to why it's only here



Last but not least is everyone's most hated bulky water that has ever graced or cursed ou. It's quite a shame really because it's almost as obnoxious as Ferrothorn. But, I think that its general lack of offensive capabilities makes it rather easy to deal with. I mean, at least even something like Slowbro has about a hundred spa to put to use. Most of all, its weak to Garchomp and I don't really like those kind of mons because of how easily that damned shark can rip teams it you are careless. Despite all that, this mon is still really good since it can annoy a lot of mons in the tier and has some options for itself like light screen or something

 

[viivian]

repost from the SS OU ranking thread, here’s my top 10 list, ordered from top to bottom:


landorus-t is extremely splashable on nearly every team and is incredibly versatile in what he can do. physically defensive sr setter, choice scarf revenge killer, swords dance wallbreaker, lando can do it all. really, it just depends on what his team needs him to be. you can never really go wrong with lando, hence why he’s indisputably the best mon in the tier.


ever needed a pokemon that exerts tons of offensive pressure while still maintaining a defensive profile? enter heatran, whose magma storm + taunt + toxic combo is so dangerous that not a single pokemon (aside from the opponent’s very own heatran) can safely switch in without being crippled. tran has an excellent defensive typing littered with 4x resists, and a handy ability that turns a would-be neutrality into an immunity. definitely among the best in the metagame, would probably be the best if it had reliable recovery


boasting two incredibly spammable STABs in dark and ice, as well as high attack and speed, and you have a potent wallbreaker/revenge killer with tons of potent options. anything that would come in on triple axel would not want to take a knock off, and vice versa. only mon that can deal with weavile is tapu fini, and even then weavile can slot in poison jab on choice band sets to swiftly dispatch it (albeit not reliably so, as that would be far too prediction reliant). weavile exists to come in, fuck shit up, switch out and come back in later for round two. it’s especially dangerous when paired with future sight from the slow twins, allowing it to break past its defensive checks. honestly weavile is downright terrifying to face off against, and a top tier offensive threat in the metagame.


great defensive typing, access to all sorts of utility moves and the ability to wall most of the tier make ferrothorn a worthy top 5 contender. it’s a defensive mon that isn’t too passive when you combine its high BP moves in power whip, gyro ball and/or body press, and can support its team with entry hazards and leech seed. a severe weakness to fire definitely holds it back, but it still manages to find success in the tier.


phenomenal defensive typing in pure fairy as well as two great abilities and a wide movepool allow clefable to fill lots of roles for her team. she can set entry hazards, remove items with knock off, cripple opposing pokemon with status, heal her own team’s status, wall set-up sweepers with unaware, set-up with calm mind, and many more. she is extremely splashable on many teams and can do anything her team wants her to do, much like lando. although unfortunately, clef’s inability to dent the bulky steels that litter the tier holds her back from being a true top tier threat, but she definitely is a consideration for most teams.


to put it bluntly, dragapult is a real bitch and a half to deal with. having access to STAB draco meteor and shadow ball is simply ridiculous. both moves are incredibly spammable on their own, but when combined, it becomes nearly impossible to safely switch into pult without eating a ton of damage. not to mention a speed tier of 142 makes it the second fastest non-scarf pokemon in the tier, second only to the uncommon regieleki. its other sets, such as sub-dd, t-wave + hex, aren‘t nearly as potent as the standard fast specs set, but they‘re still deadly in their own right and fit on quite a lot of teams. its access to u-turn makes it harder to deal with, as it can pivot out of danger and bring in a teammate who’s better equipped at handling its checks and counters. not to mention that its wide movepool allows it to pick from an array of coverage moves it can spam alongside its STABs.


yet another fast, offensive mon with spammable STABs, tapu koko isn’t as strong as weavile or as versatile as dragapult, but it’s still pretty damn effective as an offensive mon. thunderbolt and dazzling gleam are incredibly easy to spam, especially since pokemon in the tier who resist both are hard to come across. if you switch lando-t or garchomp in expecting thunderbolt, you will be hit hard with a dazzling gleam on the switch, and if you switch corviknight or melmetal to take a dazzling gleam, you will be slammed by thunderbolt. and the only ones that do resist koko‘s STABs are either uncommon or aren’t very good defensively, leaving blissey and ferrothorn as the only pokemon who can reliably sponge hits from it, and, like pult, tapu koko can simply pivot out into a teammate who can reliably handle them, like hawlucha. now sure, its specs set isn’t as immediately powerful as lele’s, but with its lower power, it more than makes up for it with better secondary STAB in electric and better speed tier.


tornadus-t is the best defogger in the tier imo, and, like a lot of the pokemon we discussed so far, is very versatile in how he can succeed. of course, you have the standard fast bulky pivot set, but you also can utilize tornadus as a mixed attacker, assault vest user, rain sweeper, nasty plot wallbreaker, and many more. torn’s speed tier and access to regenerator only serve to make him even more effective as a pivot, as he can u-turn out into a teammate and regain lost health in the process. while corviknight gives him some competition as a defogger, it‘s slower and much more passive, making it more of a liability on faster-paced teams, unlike tornadus.


garchomp has always been a fierce wallbreaker, given its great offensive stats, solid speed tier and great STAB combo. however, gen 8 had given garchomp a phenomenal STAB move in scale shot, giving it not only a decent multi-hit move, but one that boosts its speed every time it hits. with this, garchomp can outspeed nearly the entire unboosted metagame (again, except for regieleki) and it becomes even harder to keep up with. while priority can definitely ruin chomp’s fun, by the time it’s finally taken down, the opposing team has most likely been worn down a lot, allowing its powerful teammates to clean up after it has broken down the opponent’s team for them. now, again, it usually requires a speed boost from scale shot to get going, and it gets worn down quickly with life orb recoil, but despite these flaws, garchomp is a threat that can demolish entire teams if given an opportunity to set up


remember what I said about heatran providing defensive utility while still exerting offensive pressure? yeah, the same thing can also be said for slowbro. future sight + teleport is fucking nuts, man, it allows its teammates to come in for absolutely free and dish out tons of damage, and when combined with future sight, allows them to overwhelm would-be checks such as toxapex. slowbro‘s (and to a lesser extent, slowking) ability to help its teammates break past their counters and proceed to punch some serious holes through the opponent’s team is simply ludicrous. this would definitely be higher if it wasn’t for slowbro being weak to TONS of common moves in the tier, such as u-turn, knock off, thunderbolt, and more. regardless, slowbro is a threat to be reckoned with and teams should always be wary of its offensive presence.

as always, let me know your thoughts and anything you’d change about this list!

 

[Tysonslayer]

s

Hello everyone, a very interesting discussion prompt came up in the SS OU Viability Rankings thread; I mentioned that it was a discussion not meant for there, but it is one we 100% would love to see more of, so here's me bumping it here instead!

The question in particular was: what, in your eyes, are the tier's current top 10 Pokemon?

We encourage that you explain your thought process with your decision making! So, when explaining your placements, consider questions such as:

1: Why do you feel this Pokemon belongs in the top 10?
2: Why does this Pokemon deserve its particular placement? How about compared to its competition?
3: How does this Pokemon operate in the SS OU metagame, and what attributes does it have that make so particularly effective?

These top 10 are some of if not the best mons in the tier, you can even consider them titans of how good and meta-defining they are as of right now.

1.
King of OU, splashable on almost every team archetype. Landorus-T provides a lot on one slot along with its range of versatile moveset and utility, honestly, he can do anything you want it to do and most of the time it will work for good it is.
2.
Heatran is probably the closest thing to being on the same level as Landorus-T with its great defensive typing letting it check Clefable, Volcarona, and Dragapult, as well as also being an offensive threat with Air Ballon and Eruption to check opposing Heatran while retaining some of its natural bulk still.
3.
Weavile has been talked to death here already so no need to add into it, though from a Viability Ranking standpoint it's honestly the best among A+ or just S tier.
4.
Ferrothorn is doing the same thing since forever lay hazards, make it hard to kill thanks to Leech Seed, remove items with Knock Off, and an amazing defensive typing.
5.
While Dragapult is not as dominant it once was it is still an incredible mon thanks to its high-speed tier and lack of Ghost-resist causing a lot of mons in the tier to invest a lot into Special Defense not to drop easily from Shadow Ball making it mandatory having a solid answer to this all the time.
6.
Melmetal is what I like to call this gens Zygarde no matter how much the metagame changes it always finds a way to adapt to it and still be an incredible pick. Melmetal deals a pretty good amount of damage, is decently bulky, can fit on a lot of teams depending on the set, and the Toxic + Protect set literally beats the majority of its answers.
7.
Tornadus-T is the primary defogger of the tier outside of Landorus-T, blessed with a broken Regenerator with a variety of moves that can be used depending don't team. Tornadus-T can also run Assault Vest letting it check Volcanion, Dragapult, and Blacephalon, while Nasty Plot variants can be for a deadly wallbreaker.
8.
Tapu Koko fast offensive pivot with both a great defensive and offensive typing, while Zeraora has been out for a while you could say Tapu Koko is a reason why Ground-types are mandatory, despite that Tapu Koko has lately adapted to taking on Ground-types with Nature's Madness to weaken them to half and slowly wear them out, or Toxic in putting them on a timer.

9.
Clefable is that one mon that even if it has died off for a bit it will just make a glorious return no matter what, and that can be seen with SPL, Calm Mind Clefable is not only fairly bulky it can straight up win against teams without a proper response, and taking advantage of a lot of mons like Ferrothorn or Toxapex. Though while Utility Clefable is not as good as Calm Mind it is still effective thanks to the utility Clefable provides for teams with Knock Off, Aromatherapy, Wish, or Thunder Wave.
10.
While normally Toxapex would be in this position, Slowbro isn't as passive and can also keep up momentum thanks to Teleport. Future Sight can support its allies making it difficult to switch in safely, while being able to check very important threats in the tier like Urshifu-R, Melmetal, and Weavile.
honorable mentions ( )

 

[ITryFunThings]

In my opinion, Garchomp isn't good enough to be on top ten lists for SS OU. It doesn't feel as good as other options in most scenarios.

I would replace it on the list with Kartana, due to it being so strong and being able to use several different sets (my favorite is choice band, especially paired with Slowbro).

You could also replace Garchomp with Melmetal, who is absurdly bulky and hits so hard. It has excellent coverage to compliment its power and it is great at spreading paralysis, although in my opinion its best set is the Assault Vest one so that it can tank Flamethrowers and other powerful special moves. These two steel types are extremely good Pokémon in OU and I think are much more worthy of a top 10 placement than Garchomp.

 

[r1dude]

The question in particular was: what, in your eyes, are the tier's current top 10 Pokemon?

We encourage that you explain your thought process with your decision making! So, when explaining your placements, consider questions such as:

1: Why do you feel this Pokemon belongs in the top 10?
2: Why does this Pokemon deserve its particular placement? How about compared to its competition?
3: How does this Pokemon operate in the SS OU metagame, and what attributes does it have that make so particularly effective?

I think I should give it a shot...

1. Weavile
This mon just smash through things, adamant banded sets beat everything up in a 2HKO, Swords dance sets are hard to play around. Its speed tier is exceptionally amazing, being the 5th fastest mon in the meta. It's pretty easy to build a team around weavile because it can fulfill many roles such as priority, wallbreaker, set up sweeper, cleaner.

2. Zapdos
Cool electric bird that has both offensive and defensive traits in just one set. Zapdos deserves to be one of the best middle ground ever in ss ou, as it able to switch into many threats, can neutralize them with the para from static, it can run volt switch for momentum, can bring heatwave to check many steel types.

3. Dragapult
Good speed control with quite a lot of power, choice specs set are really annoying to deal as the dragon can u-turn out while dragon dance sets can use blissey switching in as a set up fodder, in most time you just have to guess which sets are. It's typing is also worth mentioning because it can hard switch into close combat and hard tank barraskewda.

4. Tornadus
Outstanding support mon with knock off and defog utility that also brings momentum.

5. Tapu Lele
This one could be a bias but I really think Lele is a super viable mon in SS OU metagame because its versatility and power. Its existence forces steel type mons like ferrothorn and corviknight have to run a specially defensive set yet still pretty vulnerable to Lele's coverage. Most of Lele safest defensive check don't get access to reliable recovery(notably melm, heatran and victini), so they can be worn down over time and finally Lele can break through. Scarf Lele is also very good as it can mess up fast wallbreaker.

6. Heatran
Loving how heatran makes progress for the game, standard trapper set gets rid of many walls, while air balloon set counter tran and deals a lot of damage.

7. Melmetal
This mon is... unreal. With a choice band it deals nuclear damage. Its bulk is stupidly high, with assault vest it can tank many strong attacks, its typing makes it hard to deal neutral or super effective damage on. The most annoying part is its t-wave set, hax out slow walls to dead.

8 .Slowbro
Bro being one of the best tank ever in the metagame, able to switch into fighting spammers, a good rain answer, provides useful future sight support while bringing momentum in teleport. My favorite set is probably colbur body press, capable of checking weavile while scares out heatran.

9. Toxapex
Pex is the definition of bulky water, when I first started playing ou, it was the bane of my existence. Knock off and status utility is still cool, can stop sweeping attempts with haze.

10. Landorus-Therian
Lando generates a lot of value for your team due to its expanding movepool, knock off, defog, stealth rock, toxic, u-turn, you name it. Electric and Ground immunity packed in one mon is neat but it can get worn down over time because its lack of reliable recovery.

 

[658Greninja]

Hello everyone, a very interesting discussion prompt came up in the SS OU Viability Rankings thread; I mentioned that it was a discussion not meant for there, but it is one we 100% would love to see more of, so here's me bumping it here instead!

The question in particular was: what, in your eyes, are the tier's current top 10 Pokemon?

We encourage that you explain your thought process with your decision making! So, when explaining your placements, consider questions such as:

1: Why do you feel this Pokemon belongs in the top 10?
2: Why does this Pokemon deserve its particular placement? How about compared to its competition?
3: How does this Pokemon operate in the SS OU metagame, and what attributes does it have that make so particularly effective?

I started this discussion in the VR thread and now I’m in it again.

#1
Weavile has become the face of SS OU. It covers so many holes for a team (Ghost check/Speed Control/Knock/FS immune/Knock Off). While there mons like Koko, Zera, or Pult who provide speed control, they don’t make progress as good as Weavile and its Knock/SD/T-Axel antics. Plus unlike them, Weav packs 120 base atk with the option to run Ada for even more dmg. The fact that teams can pack multiple Weav checks and still crumple to it. This is because they can either be put in OHKO range after a SD and chip, or hit ridiculously hard by Band variantsz With Buzzwole rising as a check to multiple physical threats, Weav isn’t obligated to run Ice Shard all the time. It can run Low Kick to OHKO the Tran and Ferro looking to cripple/kill it. This also has the side effect of opening up teammates like the Tapus, Volcarona, and NP Rotom. Boots/Band are both good, and LO is great on HO.

#2
As stated before, Tran is both easily splashable and the best mon in forcing progress. Even resists don’t like switching into repeated Magma Storms. Balloon Tran is the best rocker in the tier by being able to threaten all common defogger while still having defensive utility of its own. It is so customizable due to pairing with other great rockers like Lando/Clef/Chomp. Taunt/Toxic/Heavy Slam/BP/Wisp, the Tran Man is your oyster. All of that while checking multiple meta threats.

#3
What else hasn’t been said about it? Still one of the best glue mons in the tier. What separates it from other grounds is it provides multiple things on a team, can be your defogger/rocker/breaker. It is your pivot, your ground immune, electric immune all at once. It has been doing what it does best for four generations and has always been helpful in freeing up team slots.

#4
Said this before but Clef is top 5. It is just as versatile and customizable as Tran/Lando while having recovery, T-Wave, immunity to Toxic, hazards, and the broken fairy typing all at once. It makes teams rather anonymous and even when they know what is coming, Clef performs its role well anyways. The combination of Knock/T-Wave or just Trick is nigh impossible to switch into safely without it successfully forcing progress. From WCOP usage, it is clear that it fits on every non-HO/weather style due to how much it provides. CM is a menace to society that can still 6-0 you even if you have the tools to handle it. The strongest aspect about it is that you might not know it has CM. Clef could have T-Wave and then all of a sudden it reveals CM. Its both an aid and a beast on its own.

#5
Wait its not Ferro? No, its the best defogger and disrupter in the tier, Torn. What puts it up here (especially over other defoggers) is that the combination of its speed, regen, and Knock lets it deny progress while forcing it at the same time. Outside of Defog, there is Taunt Torn which is busted and destroys bulkier builds just by its wing. Then you got the potential of Toxic which cripples things Hurricane/Heat Wave doesn’t including the pesky Zapdos and Koko. Speaking of which…

#6
Koko is number 6 simply due to enabling so many offensive threats with U-Turn/Volt Switch and its own terrain while being threatening on its own. It also has other toys to play with then the usual Tbolt/Gleam/U-Turn/Roost. Taunt NM disrupts its usual checks and cripples them hard. Toxic puts grounds on a timer. CM is a great lategame cleaner, Specs hits like a fright train. Zera does have higher speed and Knock to more immediately put grounds on a timer while also being a wincon with BU, Koko offers longevity to stave off Torn, Zap, and others over a course of a game.

#7
Why is Ferro number 7, asks an anonymous user. Well players have gotten better at limiting the amount of hazards it could lay and play around Leech Seed. It has to choose between Gyro, Power Whip, or BP which leaves it open to one thing or another. That being said, it is no secret on how Ferro has defined the meta. Same old story, lay hazards, Knock shit off, pester the opposing team. Considering no defogger or check to it wants to take a Knock, it ends up being able to constantly force some kind of progress, even with people being better at fighting it. RH + Barbs punishes braindead U-Turn spam and can let you go for interesting plays.

#8
Out of the two other great bulky waters, Bro stands on top of them for combining progress making, slow pivoting, and a defensive backbone in one slot. FS + Port forces awkward plays that the user can take advantage of by porting or clicking Scald/BP/Ice Beam. Checks Chomp, Urshifu, Buzz, Volcanion, and rain. With some spd investment it can even pivot into Lele once or twice, making it easier to play around it in-game.

#9
In terms of defensive utility most people look to Lando, but for offense, no one does it like Chomp. SD forces progress easily. Even if it fails to sweep, it softens up the opposition for either a teammate to pick off of, or for Chomp to finish the job. On top of being threatening at +2, it also has the defensive typing and natural bulk to find several setup opportunities. Don’t forget Tankchomp either. EQ/Toxic/Flame is very awkward for most teams to switch into, and has better mus vs Ferro/Tran/Urshifu/Nidoking. Rough Skin also comes clutch in certain scenarios like getting Scarf Kart into range of Weav Ice Shard.

#10
If you really think about it, Kart is very meta defining. There is a reason why there is almost always a Flame Body Tran, Corv, Torn, Zapdos, or Buzzwole on every team, its because this mon would wipe the floor out of any team without one. Even vs teams with these threats it can still force progress with a heavy Knock. SD/Band are great midgame breakers while Scarf is a nice lategame cleaner (albeit a slightly overrated one). Aerial Ace has also popped up to snipe Buzzwole which opens the door for Weav, Chomp, and Zera lategame. SD Kart 6-0s non-Torn stall with ease. Scarf variants are threatening to HO styles. Its just a scary mon with whatever role it is playing.

 

[Eeveeto]

1. Lando.
2. Tran.
3. Torn.
4. Pex.
5. Koko
6. Weavile
7. Pult
8. Lele
9. Clef
10. Melmetal

Won't elaborate.

 

[Magcargo]

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10. /? Honestly IDK lol

TBH this list is based more on what I like using + stuff I find to be kinda brainless or "failsafe" when using / going against it on ladder. Mons like Lando-T, Fini, and Heatran are pretty easy to use and usually extremely easy to fit onto a team to plug holes. Garchomp is similarly pretty easy to fit onto a team and has a nice blend of offensive and defensive utility which very few Pokemon can match. Zeraora doesn't have quite the defensive utility of my top 4 but more than makes up for it with its speed. Toxic + Knock off also put most of its switch-ins on a timer. I normally don't use Weavile or Ferrothorn on most of my teams so I cannot comment on them too much. My first impressions of them are positive, but I need to use them a bit longer before ranking them higher.

Didn't include Torn or Melm since I find them kinda difficult to include them on a team. When teambuilding, It always feels like another Flying- or Steel-type is a better fit than Torn or Melm. Volcarona, Toxapex, and Kartana are all really strong Pokemon that I have a good amount of experience using and could probably be on this list as well.

 

[Ruparajan]

Hello everyone, a very interesting discussion prompt came up in the SS OU Viability Rankings thread; I mentioned that it was a discussion not meant for there, but it is one we 100% would love to see more of, so here's me bumping it here instead!

The question in particular was: what, in your eyes, are the tier's current top 10 Pokemon?

We encourage that you explain your thought process with your decision making! So, when explaining your placements, consider questions such as:

1: Why do you feel this Pokemon belongs in the top 10?
2: Why does this Pokemon deserve its particular placement? How about compared to its competition?
3: How does this Pokemon operate in the SS OU metagame, and what attributes does it have that make so particularly effective?

1- Heatran
2- Weavile
3- Landorus-therian
4- Ferrothorn
5- Clefable
6- Dragapult
7- Zapdos
8- Tornadus- therian
9- Melmetal
10- Slowbro

Top 4 in list is pretty obvious I believe. I like using clefable because it is a good sweeper with cm while still providing great defensive utility for the entire team. Dragapult is definitely not the pokemon who can make progress all the time like 2 months ago. Now it is a high risk- high reward ho pokemon. Zapdos is just op. It is my favorite bird which provides good offensive coverage while countering several pokemon in the metagame. Torn-t is splashable and regen makes it a good bird although I have seen more success with zapdos. Melmetal deserves a spot on number 9 for sure. It has good bulk paired with a sky-high attack. Slowbro is the best bulky water in this offensive metagame.

Special mentions (Really good but not top 10 )- Tapu koko, Garchomp, Pex, Kartana

(I am not a pro player or anything. I will gladly change my opinion if I receive suggestions with reasoning.)
(And how to add the pictures of pokemon in here without downloading? )

 

[That_Dwayneee]

ima actually go all in on a top 10 rather than a top 5 this time

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[clementinabroccolina]

ima actually go all in on a top 10 rather than a top 5 this time

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Fellow Blacephalon and Lele enjoyers unite

Blaceph is funny because it's always been understood as a potent threat in the metagame that does have quite a few issues (not as fast as Kart and even more frail, weak non-stab coverage, rocks weakness) but I still think it's somehow kind of underrated