That is known as “Pre-Dynamax Ban OU”.
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Project Metagame Workshop (OM Submissions CLOSED)
- Thread starter drampa's grandpa
- Start date
- Status
Re-Evolution
Metagame premise:
Evolved Pokémon gain base stats equal to the difference with their previous stage.
Stats gained by evolution isnt something consistent, you may find middle stage mons that end stronger than their final forms, low tier mons getting absurd boosts, walls gaining offensive power or sweepers with new defensive capabilities. Some may lose defense or speed for whatever reason.
For example:
Original stats (hp/attack/deffense/special attack/special deffense/speed)
Original stats
Boosted stats
Original stats
Boosted stats
Potential bans and threats:
Gyarados, Milotic, Gallade and Golisopod get some massive stat boost on top of their already high stats. Hitmonlee is now Hawlucha+ with 205 Atk, 139 Speed and unburden.
Questions for the community:
Would Eviolite be a problem? Or should we ban the abusersGolbat first?
How should I address Pokemon that change form in the middle of a battle?(very original question)
Metagame premise:
Evolved Pokémon gain base stats equal to the difference with their previous stage.
Stats gained by evolution isnt something consistent, you may find middle stage mons that end stronger than their final forms, low tier mons getting absurd boosts, walls gaining offensive power or sweepers with new defensive capabilities. Some may lose defense or speed for whatever reason.
For example:
Original stats (hp/attack/deffense/special attack/special deffense/speed)
40 | 45 | 35 | 30 | 40 | 55 |
Original stats
75 | 80 | 70 | 65 | 75 | 90 |
110(+35) | 115(+35) | 105(+35) | 100(+35) | 110(+35) | 125(+35) |
Original stats
85 | 90 | 80 | 70 | 80 | 130 |
95(+10) | 100(+10) | 90(+10) | 75(+5) | 85(+5) | 170(+40) |
Potential bans and threats:
Gyarados, Milotic, Gallade and Golisopod get some massive stat boost on top of their already high stats. Hitmonlee is now Hawlucha+ with 205 Atk, 139 Speed and unburden.
Questions for the community:
Would Eviolite be a problem? Or should we ban the abusers
How should I address Pokemon that change form in the middle of a battle?
115/35/75/220/155/140
Holy shit.
110/100/-5/160/55/265
What's happens to extreme values? Do they just get capped?
110/105/85/205/150/110
252 SpA Blacephalon Overheat vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ice Scales Frosmoth: 332-392 (91.9 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Frosmoth good now?
Assuming that Melmetal will get the boost in this meta, as it is Meltan’s evolution, here are its stats.
224/221/221/105/95/34
Last edited:
This concept intrigues and terrifies me. Here’s what the pseudo legends look like.
Old: 91 / 134 / 95 / 100 / 100 / 80
New: 121 / 184 / 125 / 130 / 130 / 90
Old: 100 / 134 / 110 / 95 / 100 / 61
New: 130 / 184 / 150 / 125 / 130 / 71
Old: 95 / 135 / 80 / 110 / 80 / 100
New: 125 / 175 / 60 / 160 / 130 / 150
Old: 80 / 135 / 130 / 95 / 90 / 70
New: 90 / 195 / 160 / 135 / 100 / 90
Old: 108 / 130 / 95 / 80 / 85 / 102
New: 148 / 170 / 125 / 110 / 115 / 128
Old: 92 / 105 / 90 / 125 / 90 / 98
New: 112 / 125 / 110 / 185 / 110 / 138
Old: 90 / 100 / 70 / 110 / 150 / 80
New: 112 / 125 / 83 / 137 / 187 / 100
Old: 75 / 110 / 125 / 100 / 105 / 85
New: 95 / 145 / 160 / 135 / 140 / 105
Old: 88 / 120 / 75 / 100 / 75 / 142
New: 108 / 160 / 100 / 140 / 100 / 182
Old: 91 / 134 / 95 / 100 / 100 / 80
New: 121 / 184 / 125 / 130 / 130 / 90
Old: 100 / 134 / 110 / 95 / 100 / 61
New: 130 / 184 / 150 / 125 / 130 / 71
Old: 95 / 135 / 80 / 110 / 80 / 100
New: 125 / 175 / 60 / 160 / 130 / 150
Old: 80 / 135 / 130 / 95 / 90 / 70
New: 90 / 195 / 160 / 135 / 100 / 90
Old: 108 / 130 / 95 / 80 / 85 / 102
New: 148 / 170 / 125 / 110 / 115 / 128
Old: 92 / 105 / 90 / 125 / 90 / 98
New: 112 / 125 / 110 / 185 / 110 / 138
Old: 90 / 100 / 70 / 110 / 150 / 80
New: 112 / 125 / 83 / 137 / 187 / 100
Old: 75 / 110 / 125 / 100 / 105 / 85
New: 95 / 145 / 160 / 135 / 140 / 105
Old: 88 / 120 / 75 / 100 / 75 / 142
New: 108 / 160 / 100 / 140 / 100 / 182
Last edited:
Dusk Mage Necrozma
formerly XenonHero126
This would probably be an Ubers power level meta. Even so, I wouldn’t allow Ubers mons, because they would be pretty distracting. If you do allow Ubers, ban Solgaleo and Lunala. Somewhat surprisingly, Urshifu is probably fine- Kubfu is already pretty strong.
Biblically accurate Solgaleo
231(+94)/245(+108)/83(-24)/197(+84)/49(-42)/157(+60)
Biblically accurate Lunala
231(+94)/197(+84)/49(-42)/245(+108)/83(-24)/157(+60)
140(+40)/170(+40)/140(+40)/73(+10)/70(+10)/122(+25)
I adore this concept and really hope it gets in, although some bans will probably have to be made (looking at you, Melmetal and moths, and probably some more we haven’t discovered) also I’d think banning Eviolite entirely would be the best choice.
Biblically accurate Solgaleo
231(+94)/245(+108)/83(-24)/197(+84)/49(-42)/157(+60)
Biblically accurate Lunala
231(+94)/197(+84)/49(-42)/245(+108)/83(-24)/157(+60)
140(+40)/170(+40)/140(+40)/73(+10)/70(+10)/122(+25)
I adore this concept and really hope it gets in, although some bans will probably have to be made (looking at you, Melmetal and moths, and probably some more we haven’t discovered) also I’d think banning Eviolite entirely would be the best choice.
I’d assume it would cap at 255 for highest and 1 for lowest like in official Pokémon games. Other OMs either ban those extremes or use this base stat cap system.
115/35/75/220/155/140
Holy shit.
110/100/-5/160/55/265
What's happens to extreme values? Do they just get capped?
That’s an OM I agree to be intriguing. I wonder what other potential top threats could be in this Uber-leveled metagame.
Lets do what Samtendo said, better to not break the game too hard.
Meltan and Melmetal are a special case as you can only evolve Meltan in Go, they arent related in the SwSh code, same reason why Meltan isnt allowed in LC, therefore Melmetal stay the same unless SV change how this works.
They do seem impressive at first, but a lot of stuff go over 200 stats in the meta.This concept intrigues and terrifies me. Here’s what the pseudo legends look like.
Old: 91 / 134 / 95 / 100 / 100 / 80
New: 121 / 184 / 125 / 130 / 130 / 90
Old: 100 / 134 / 110 / 95 / 100 / 61
New: 130 / 184 / 150 / 125 / 130 / 71
Old: 95 / 135 / 80 / 110 / 80 / 100
New: 125 / 175 / 60 / 160 / 130 / 150
Old: 80 / 135 / 130 / 95 / 90 / 70
New: 90 / 195 / 160 / 135 / 100 / 90
Old: 108 / 130 / 95 / 80 / 85 / 102
New: 148 / 170 / 125 / 110 / 115 / 128
Old: 92 / 105 / 90 / 125 / 90 / 98
New: 112 / 125 / 110 / 185 / 110 / 138
Old: 90 / 100 / 70 / 110 / 150 / 80
New: 112 / 125 / 83 / 137 / 187 / 100
Old: 75 / 110 / 125 / 100 / 105 / 85
New: 95 / 145 / 160 / 135 / 140 / 105
Old: 88 / 120 / 75 / 100 / 75 / 142
New: 108 / 160 / 100 / 140 / 100 / 182
I think the best is to allow ubers, a lot of mons get pass 700 BST and pretty much all the pseudos seems to be at the level of Rayquaza if not higher now. I would ban Lunala and Solgaleo, yeah.This would probably be an Ubers power level meta. Even so, I wouldn’t allow Ubers mons, because they would be pretty distracting. If you do allow Ubers, ban Solgaleo and Lunala. Somewhat surprisingly, Urshifu is probably fine- Kubfu is already pretty strong.
Biblically accurate Solgaleo
231(+94)/245(+108)/83(-24)/197(+84)/49(-42)/157(+60)
Biblically accurate Lunala
231(+94)/197(+84)/49(-42)/245(+108)/83(-24)/157(+60)
140(+40)/170(+40)/140(+40)/73(+10)/70(+10)/122(+25)
I adore this concept and really hope it gets in, although some bans will probably have to be made (looking at you, Melmetal and moths, and probably some more we haven’t discovered) also I’d think banning Eviolite entirely would be the best choice.
And i want to allow Eviolite at least for the early stage, im unsure if it would be all that impactful outside of Pory-2 and Golbat.
If anyone wants an idea on what could become crazy, check the Gen 8 Cross Evolution Spreadsheet pretty much everything at 150+ stats boost seem interesting, and thats a lot of mons.
First off, the Cross Evo classics:
170/240/103/105/180/82
170/105/138/190/195/82
Then some more stuff:
73/140/200/55/61/42(With Eviolite)
104/138/171/84/146/30
75/75/70/175/125/205
50/73/242/63/232/25
98/215/95/65/175/110
110/158/105/174/105/110
170/240/103/105/180/82170/105/138/190/195/82Then some more stuff:
73/140/200/55/61/42(With Eviolite)104/138/171/84/146/3075/75/70/175/125/20550/73/242/63/232/2598/215/95/65/175/110110/158/105/174/105/110
Dusk Mage Necrozma
formerly XenonHero126
My god that ToxapexFirst off, the Cross Evo classics:
Then some more stuff:
This meta honestly would have a power level comparable to BH, with lots of hyper-specialization, like Frosmoth’s ~base 400 SpDef if little to no investment after factoring in Ice Scales, but only base 85 Def in a metagame where Garchomp has base 170 Atk.
Frosmoth+Eviolite Doublade cover both sides
There are only three such Pokemon that this meta would affect, and I think the best option would be to just calculate their stats separately.
61/1/130/55/231/85
61/170/1/235/51/85
140/190/65/45/65/140
140/1/165/255/165/60
140/190/65/45/65/140
140/230/65/45/65/220
Gyarados and Frosmoth have a good chance to end in the initial ban list, but i dont want to ban much before we ever have a chance to try them out. Eviolite is staying for now mostly to make sure we have a decent defesive answer to some of those monsters.
Some fun stuff: (early route mons change a lot upon evolving)
Now has a massive bulk (132/116/118) and can hit 552 Atk with Adamant nature, for reference Kartana can only go as far as 507 Atk
Similar to the other rabbit, but this one hits 568 Atk, less bulky but Water/Fairy is a better typing.
This thing has 100/180/80/150/80/120 stats, hustle and reduce your defense with each hit.
70/70/45/155/135/110 May not be as impressive as Volcarona, but base 110 speed with Sleep powder let it remove checks while setting up, and stab Hurricane with Tinted Lens is dumb
With 79/135/70/140/70/216 stats, is similar to Jolteon but can go physical and has access to Nuzzle.
Im going with this, Aegislash is going to be weird no matter what.There are only three such Pokemon that this meta would affect, and I think the best option would be to just calculate their stats separately.
Some fun stuff: (early route mons change a lot upon evolving)
Now has a massive bulk (132/116/118) and can hit 552 Atk with Adamant nature, for reference Kartana can only go as far as 507 Atk Similar to the other rabbit, but this one hits 568 Atk, less bulky but Water/Fairy is a better typing. This thing has 100/180/80/150/80/120 stats, hustle and reduce your defense with each hit. 70/70/45/155/135/110 May not be as impressive as Volcarona, but base 110 speed with Sleep powder let it remove checks while setting up, and stab Hurricane with Tinted Lens is dumb With 79/135/70/140/70/216 stats, is similar to Jolteon but can go physical and has access to Nuzzle.
Another slop job team for Stat Shift. I built a Nidoqueen team and was a little disgruntled at having to practically spend two Pokemon just dealing with her lesser stat spread, and I was going to post it, but then I lost the paste. Built a Darmanitan team instead and Darm is definitely starting to smell like a problem. I also briefly entertained building a team with Arctozolt but decided trying to handle its stat spread also wasn't worth slotting it in halfway through the team; I think if you do build around these Pokemon you could make something strong but for now I think I'll stick to just higher BST Pokemon. All the same, I'll be keeping an eye on Bolt Beak.
@ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Explosion
- Knock Off
Azelf gains a small speed boost and loses a lot of power, which is mostly okay because it's more of a suicide lead.
@ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Flamethrower
- Psychic
- Superpower
- U-turn
This guy's going to become a problem.
(F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Psycho Cut
- Power Whip
Just enough moves and SD make Hatterene a pretty great breaker against bulkier teams.
@ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Tri Attack
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
Now with less speed and sliiightly more bulk to abuse Trick Room.
@ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon
- Focus Blast
Not a terrible special movepool, it also gets Steel Beam and Sludge Bomb.
@ Choice Scarf
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Brave Bird
- Endeavor
- U-turn
Loses a little speed and gains a lot of Attack (and HP to absorb BB recoil) to become a fairly threatening scarfer with U-turn and Endeavor to keep momentum. I could probably slot in some priority elsewhere in the team.
@ Focus Sash Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Explosion
- Knock Off
Azelf gains a small speed boost and loses a lot of power, which is mostly okay because it's more of a suicide lead.
@ Life Orb Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Flamethrower
- Psychic
- Superpower
- U-turn
This guy's going to become a problem.
(F) @ Life OrbAbility: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Psycho Cut
- Power Whip
Just enough moves and SD make Hatterene a pretty great breaker against bulkier teams.
@ Life OrbAbility: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Tri Attack
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
Now with less speed and sliiightly more bulk to abuse Trick Room.
@ Heavy-Duty Boots Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon
- Focus Blast
Not a terrible special movepool, it also gets Steel Beam and Sludge Bomb.
@ Choice ScarfAbility: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Brave Bird
- Endeavor
- U-turn
Loses a little speed and gains a lot of Attack (and HP to absorb BB recoil) to become a fairly threatening scarfer with U-turn and Endeavor to keep momentum. I could probably slot in some priority elsewhere in the team.
Quick Eeveelution round-up
75/205/70/145/155/75
Decent special bulk and Guts to nuke things
205/75/70/175/125/75
Great damage on Scalds and great special bulk
75/75/70/175/125/205
NYOOOOOOM
75/75/70/215/125/165
Fast and hits hard
135/75/170/75/195/75
Absolute chonker
75/165/210/75/65/135
You still have no coverage so you get mostly outclassed by Doublade, who has Eviolite and a better typing
75/65/170/215/125/75
May I direct you to Espeon, who has Magic Bounce, is faster, and Psyshock to hit special walls, at the cost of physical bulk.
135/75/80/175/195/65
Frosmoth has better special bulk but this thing isn't allergic to Knock and has a bit better physical bulk, complimented by a Fighting resist
75/205/70/145/155/75Decent special bulk and Guts to nuke things
205/75/70/175/125/75Great damage on Scalds and great special bulk
75/75/70/175/125/205NYOOOOOOM
75/75/70/215/125/165Fast and hits hard
135/75/170/75/195/75Absolute chonker
75/165/210/75/65/135You still have no coverage so you get mostly outclassed by Doublade, who has Eviolite and a better typing
75/65/170/215/125/75May I direct you to Espeon, who has Magic Bounce, is faster, and Psyshock to hit special walls, at the cost of physical bulk.
135/75/80/175/195/65Frosmoth has better special bulk but this thing isn't allergic to Knock and has a bit better physical bulk, complimented by a Fighting resist
some Re-Evolution mons that I haven't seen mentioned yet, this is part 1 because it took a long time.
Kanto
Old: 80 / 82 / 83 / 100 / 100 / 80
New: 100 / 102 / 103 / 120 / 120 / 100
A solid threat if sun teams become viable.
Old: 78 / 84 / 78 / 109 / 85 / 100
New: 98 / 104 / 98 / 138 / 105 / 120
See Venusaur.
Old: 79 / 83 / 100 / 85 / 105 / 78
New: 99 / 103 / 120 / 105 / 130 / 98
Potentially usable with shell smash?
Old: 35 / 55 / 40 / 50 / 50 / 90
New: 50 / 70 / 65 / 65 / 65 / 120
Still dies to a stiff breeze, especially in this meta, but could be scary with a Light Ball.
Old: 95 / 70 / 73 / 95 / 90 / 60
New: 120 / 95 / 98 / 130 / 115 / 85
As usual, Clefable's stats aren't too impressive. But it always finds a way.
Old: 73 / 67 / 75 / 81 / 100 / 109
New: 108 / 93 / 110 / 112 / 135 / 143
The best Aurora Veil user just got better.
Old: 90 / 110 / 80 / 100 / 80 / 95
New: 125 / 150 / 115 / 130 / 110 / 130
Very solid stats all around with access to Intimidate.
Old: 95 / 75 / 110 / 100 / 80 / 30
New: 100 / 85 / 135 / 160 / 120 / 45
Very fat, very strong.
Old: 50 / 95 / 180 / 85 / 45 / 70
New: 70 / 125 / 260 / 125 / 65 / 100
Decent power increases, a significant speed buff, and unkillable on the physical side. Could honestly work with HDB and Rapid Spin, Spikes, Life Dew, Ice Beam.
Old: 60 / 80 / 110 / 50 / 80 / 45
New: 70 / 110 / 125 / 60 / 110 / 55
Ban Thick Club.
Old: 50 / 105 / 79 / 35 / 110 / 76
New: 65 / 175 / 123 / 35 / 175 / 117
Its solid power and decent bulk help a lot, especially with Iron Fist-boosted Drain Punch. Outclassed by Hitmonlee unless that gets banned.
Old: 105 / 130 / 120 / 45 / 45 / 40
New: 130 / 175 / 145 / 60 / 60 / 55
Very powerful while also incredibly bulky. And that's assuming Eviolite gets banned.
Old: 70 / 60 / 125 / 115 / 70 / 55
New: 105 / 80 / 150 / 140 / 85 / 75
A bulkier, stronger, slower Cloyster.
Old: 160 / 110 / 65 / 65 / 110 / 30
New: 185 / 135 / 90 / 90 / 135 / 55
Is it good? I don't know. Is it fat? Absolutely.
Johto
Old: 255 / 10 / 10 / 75 / 135 / 55
New: 260 / 15 / 15 / 115 / 165 / 60
Now it's even more bulky, although relative to other mons' power spikes its buffs are underwhelming.
Old: 65 / 75 / 70 / 95 / 70 / 75
New: 90 / 100 / 95 / 120 / 95 / 120
It gets +25 to each stat. Maybe it could be a viable bulky Magic Bounce user.
Old: 95 / 85 / 85 / 65 / 65 / 35
New: 135 / 125 / 125 / 105 / 105 / 55
It gets + 40 to everything but speed. Best Unaware mon in the hypothetical tier.
Old: 90 / 130 / 75 / 75 / 75 / 55
New: 120 / 180 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 70
Ursaluna who? Yeah, good luck walling this demon. Solid bulk as well.
Old: 85 / 40 / 70 / 80 / 140 / 70
New: 125 / 60 / 90 / 100 / 160 / 90
That HP buff is a big game changer. Special attackers will struggle to dent it.
Hoenn
Old: 80 / 120 / 70 / 110 / 70 / 80
New: 100 / 155 / 80 / 135 / 80 / 105
A budget Mega Blaziken that can hold an item.
Old: 78 / 70 / 61 / 50 / 61 / 100
New: 118 / 110 / 81 / 70 / 81 / 140
Belly Drum Extreme Speed is entertaining I guess.
Old: 98 / 90 / 101 / 60 / 101 / 95
New: 118 / 110 / 141 / 70 / 141 / 90
Extra power and absurd bulk at the cost of a little speed. A weaker but faster and bulkier Ursaring with STAB Knock Off.
Old: 60 / 85 / 60 / 75 / 50 / 125
New: 80 / 115 / 90 / 120 / 70 / 165
Specs Boomburst go brrrr. Also a fast Guts user.
Old: 60 / 50 / 100 / 95 / 70 / 65
New: 80 / 70 / 170 / 135 / 110 / 45
The premier Drizzle user is now way bulkier and stronger and its U-Turn is slower.
Old: 68 / 65 / 65 / 125 / 115 / 80
New: 98 / 95 / 95 / 185 / 175 / 110
Mega Gardevoir but objectively better in every way. Probably busted.
Old: 144 / 120 / 60 / 40 / 60 / 50
New: 216 / 180 / 90 / 60 / 90 / 75
Hariyama has one of the biggest differences between evolutions' BST in the game and it shows. Guts is icing on the cake. If only it got Drain Punch.
Old: 70 / 120 / 40 / 95 / 40 / 95
New: 95 / 150 / 60 / 125 / 60 / 125
Might find some success with a LO Speed Boost set.
Old: 63 / 120 / 85 / 90 / 55 / 55
New: 83 / 160 / 105 / 130 / 75 / 75
As always, it hits like a truck. The extra speed and bulk is nice.
Old: 110 / 78 / 73 / 76 / 71 / 60
New: 170 / 108 / 103 / 106 / 101 / 60
Similar case as Hariyama with its stat growth. It's still shit (no recovery, way too slow) but I added it as a proof of concept that this meta wouldn't solely be broken mons getting more broken; even the trash can have some interesting stuff.
Sinnoh
Old: 111 / 83 / 68 / 92 / 82 / 39
New: 146 / 118 / 88 / 127 / 102 / 44
It does the same thing it always does but it's even more fat.
Old: 70 / 110 / 70 / 115 / 70 / 90
New: 100 / 150 / 100 / 195 / 100 / 120
This thing is really strong. Mixed LO seems very solid.
Old: 108 / 112 / 118 / 68 / 72 / 47
New: 148 / 152 / 158 / 98 / 102 / 62
See Gastrodon.
Old: 100 / 100 / 125 / 110 / 50 / 50
New: 135 / 145 / 135 / 120 / 60 / 40
I guess Knock Off and Earthquake are a lot stronger now? The HP buff helps a lot.
Old: 86 / 76 / 86 / 116 / 56 / 95
New: 107 / 87 / 107 / 157 / 67 / 95
More of a proof of concept than anything seriously viable, much like Whiscash. But Tinted Lens + 157 Special Attack will hurt a lot.
Old: 85 / 80 / 70 / 135 / 75 / 90
New: 85 / 80 / 50 / 165 / 55 / 120
Very frail but very powerful.
Old: 70 / 80 / 70 / 80 / 70 / 110
New: 90 / 110 / 90 / 110 / 90 / 170
It's fast and it gets Spikes but it's probably too weak to abuse Triple Axel and Poltergeist.
Kanto
Old: 80 / 82 / 83 / 100 / 100 / 80
New: 100 / 102 / 103 / 120 / 120 / 100
A solid threat if sun teams become viable.
Old: 78 / 84 / 78 / 109 / 85 / 100
New: 98 / 104 / 98 / 138 / 105 / 120
See Venusaur.
Old: 79 / 83 / 100 / 85 / 105 / 78
New: 99 / 103 / 120 / 105 / 130 / 98
Potentially usable with shell smash?
Old: 35 / 55 / 40 / 50 / 50 / 90
New: 50 / 70 / 65 / 65 / 65 / 120
Still dies to a stiff breeze, especially in this meta, but could be scary with a Light Ball.
Old: 95 / 70 / 73 / 95 / 90 / 60
New: 120 / 95 / 98 / 130 / 115 / 85
As usual, Clefable's stats aren't too impressive. But it always finds a way.
Old: 73 / 67 / 75 / 81 / 100 / 109
New: 108 / 93 / 110 / 112 / 135 / 143
The best Aurora Veil user just got better.
Old: 90 / 110 / 80 / 100 / 80 / 95
New: 125 / 150 / 115 / 130 / 110 / 130
Very solid stats all around with access to Intimidate.
Old: 95 / 75 / 110 / 100 / 80 / 30
New: 100 / 85 / 135 / 160 / 120 / 45
Very fat, very strong.
Old: 50 / 95 / 180 / 85 / 45 / 70
New: 70 / 125 / 260 / 125 / 65 / 100
Decent power increases, a significant speed buff, and unkillable on the physical side. Could honestly work with HDB and Rapid Spin, Spikes, Life Dew, Ice Beam.
Old: 60 / 80 / 110 / 50 / 80 / 45
New: 70 / 110 / 125 / 60 / 110 / 55
Ban Thick Club.
Old: 50 / 105 / 79 / 35 / 110 / 76
New: 65 / 175 / 123 / 35 / 175 / 117
Its solid power and decent bulk help a lot, especially with Iron Fist-boosted Drain Punch. Outclassed by Hitmonlee unless that gets banned.
Old: 105 / 130 / 120 / 45 / 45 / 40
New: 130 / 175 / 145 / 60 / 60 / 55
Very powerful while also incredibly bulky. And that's assuming Eviolite gets banned.
Old: 70 / 60 / 125 / 115 / 70 / 55
New: 105 / 80 / 150 / 140 / 85 / 75
A bulkier, stronger, slower Cloyster.
Old: 160 / 110 / 65 / 65 / 110 / 30
New: 185 / 135 / 90 / 90 / 135 / 55
Is it good? I don't know. Is it fat? Absolutely.
Johto
Old: 255 / 10 / 10 / 75 / 135 / 55
New: 260 / 15 / 15 / 115 / 165 / 60
Now it's even more bulky, although relative to other mons' power spikes its buffs are underwhelming.
Old: 65 / 75 / 70 / 95 / 70 / 75
New: 90 / 100 / 95 / 120 / 95 / 120
It gets +25 to each stat. Maybe it could be a viable bulky Magic Bounce user.
Old: 95 / 85 / 85 / 65 / 65 / 35
New: 135 / 125 / 125 / 105 / 105 / 55
It gets + 40 to everything but speed. Best Unaware mon in the hypothetical tier.
Old: 90 / 130 / 75 / 75 / 75 / 55
New: 120 / 180 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 70
Ursaluna who? Yeah, good luck walling this demon. Solid bulk as well.
Old: 85 / 40 / 70 / 80 / 140 / 70
New: 125 / 60 / 90 / 100 / 160 / 90
That HP buff is a big game changer. Special attackers will struggle to dent it.
Hoenn
Old: 80 / 120 / 70 / 110 / 70 / 80
New: 100 / 155 / 80 / 135 / 80 / 105
A budget Mega Blaziken that can hold an item.
Old: 78 / 70 / 61 / 50 / 61 / 100
New: 118 / 110 / 81 / 70 / 81 / 140
Belly Drum Extreme Speed is entertaining I guess.
Old: 98 / 90 / 101 / 60 / 101 / 95
New: 118 / 110 / 141 / 70 / 141 / 90
Extra power and absurd bulk at the cost of a little speed. A weaker but faster and bulkier Ursaring with STAB Knock Off.
Old: 60 / 85 / 60 / 75 / 50 / 125
New: 80 / 115 / 90 / 120 / 70 / 165
Specs Boomburst go brrrr. Also a fast Guts user.
Old: 60 / 50 / 100 / 95 / 70 / 65
New: 80 / 70 / 170 / 135 / 110 / 45
The premier Drizzle user is now way bulkier and stronger and its U-Turn is slower.
Old: 68 / 65 / 65 / 125 / 115 / 80
New: 98 / 95 / 95 / 185 / 175 / 110
Mega Gardevoir but objectively better in every way. Probably busted.
Old: 144 / 120 / 60 / 40 / 60 / 50
New: 216 / 180 / 90 / 60 / 90 / 75
Hariyama has one of the biggest differences between evolutions' BST in the game and it shows. Guts is icing on the cake. If only it got Drain Punch.
Old: 70 / 120 / 40 / 95 / 40 / 95
New: 95 / 150 / 60 / 125 / 60 / 125
Might find some success with a LO Speed Boost set.
Old: 63 / 120 / 85 / 90 / 55 / 55
New: 83 / 160 / 105 / 130 / 75 / 75
As always, it hits like a truck. The extra speed and bulk is nice.
Old: 110 / 78 / 73 / 76 / 71 / 60
New: 170 / 108 / 103 / 106 / 101 / 60
Similar case as Hariyama with its stat growth. It's still shit (no recovery, way too slow) but I added it as a proof of concept that this meta wouldn't solely be broken mons getting more broken; even the trash can have some interesting stuff.
Sinnoh
Old: 111 / 83 / 68 / 92 / 82 / 39
New: 146 / 118 / 88 / 127 / 102 / 44
It does the same thing it always does but it's even more fat.
Old: 70 / 110 / 70 / 115 / 70 / 90
New: 100 / 150 / 100 / 195 / 100 / 120
This thing is really strong. Mixed LO seems very solid.
Old: 108 / 112 / 118 / 68 / 72 / 47
New: 148 / 152 / 158 / 98 / 102 / 62
See Gastrodon.
Old: 100 / 100 / 125 / 110 / 50 / 50
New: 135 / 145 / 135 / 120 / 60 / 40
I guess Knock Off and Earthquake are a lot stronger now? The HP buff helps a lot.
Old: 86 / 76 / 86 / 116 / 56 / 95
New: 107 / 87 / 107 / 157 / 67 / 95
More of a proof of concept than anything seriously viable, much like Whiscash. But Tinted Lens + 157 Special Attack will hurt a lot.
Old: 85 / 80 / 70 / 135 / 75 / 90
New: 85 / 80 / 50 / 165 / 55 / 120
Very frail but very powerful.
Old: 70 / 80 / 70 / 80 / 70 / 110
New: 90 / 110 / 90 / 110 / 90 / 170
It's fast and it gets Spikes but it's probably too weak to abuse Triple Axel and Poltergeist.
If stats weren't capped, Chansey would have been even more insane.
Old: 255 / 10 / 10 / 75 / 135 / 55
New: 260 / 15 / 15 / 115 / 165 / 60
Now it's even more bulky, although relative to other mons' power spikes its buffs are underwhelming.
400/5/5/55/145/70
In other news, Togekiss looks good.
115/60/105/160/125/120Though granted, so many things have bonkers stats that it's hard to tell what the new baseline is for "good" is.
Yes, I know EVs are capped at 255. I bolded it as indication. Anyway, time for part 2.
Unova:
Old: 110 / 135 / 60 / 50 / 65 / 88
New: 160 / 185 / 80 / 70 / 85 / 108
Yeah this is terrifying.
Old: 105 / 95 / 75 / 85 / 75 / 74
New: 135 / 125 / 95 / 105 / 85 / 79
A fat rocker or a decent rain abuser.
Old: 60 / 100 / 89 / 55 / 69 / 112
New: 80 / 145 / 79 / 70 / 59 / 177
The HP buff is offset by losing 10 points in both defenses but it's strong and incredibly fast.
Old: 95 / 117 / 80 / 65 / 70 / 92
New: 130 / 152 / 115 / 85 / 105 / 110
A little slow to be a scarfer but its bulk is excellent with Intimidate.
Old: 65 / 90 / 115 / 45 / 115 / 58
New: 80 / 105 / 160 / 55 / 160 / 68
It's slow as hell and not that strong but its bulk is insane. Maybe there's potential for Rest + Shed Skin?
Old: 58 / 50 / 145 / 95 / 105 / 30
New: 78 / 70 / 205 / 135 / 145 / 30
Stupidly bulky with a solid special attack stat. Pain Split could work well since many mons will have huge HP stats.
Old: 60 / 105 / 60 / 120 / 60 / 105
New: 80 / 145 / 80 / 160 / 80 / 145
Very nice offensive stats.
Old: 75 / 95 / 60 / 65 / 60 / 115
New: 95 / 140 / 80 / 90 / 80 / 145
Less of a meme now that it has a good attack stat but it's probably outclassed by stronger attackers.
Old: 70 / 135 / 105 / 60 / 105 / 20
New: 90 / 195 / 165 / 80 / 165 / -40
Excellent power and bulk but with base 1 speed and no recovery. I think it's cool.
Old: 114 / 85 / 70 / 85 / 80 / 30
New: 159 / 115 / 95 / 115 / 105 / 45
As if its HP wasn't high enough already. The Regenerator mons look very obnoxious in this meta.
Old: 100 / 60 / 70 / 85 / 105 / 60
New: 145 / 80 / 90 / 105 / 125 / 80
Strength Sap looks broken when every mon has a huge attack stat. Jellicent will help the meta survive rain teams.
Old: 74 / 94 / 131 / 54 / 116 / 20
New: 104 / 138 / 171 / 84 / 146 / 30
Absolutely cursed get this thing out of my sight.
Old: 60 / 55 / 90 / 145 / 90 / 80
New: 60 / 70 / 120 / 195 / 120 / 105
Specs has like 3 switchins in the whole game while SubSplit beats everything that's slow.
Old: 76 / 147 / 90 / 60 / 70 / 97
New: 86 / 177 / 110 / 80 / 90 / 127
A viable DDer I guess, although mono-dragon STAB sucks.
Old: 95 / 130 / 80 / 70 / 80 / 50
New: 135 / 190 / 120 / 80 / 120 / 60
The premier Slush Rush abuser. Its speed isn't that impressive (outruns up to like base 140/150 under hail if Adamant iirc) but it's strong as hell and very bulky.
Old: 65 / 125 / 60 / 95 / 60 / 105
New: 85 / 165 / 70 / 135 / 70 / 145
A decently fast pivot. I'd probably use Scarf Regenerator.
Old: 89 / 124 / 80 / 55 / 80 / 55
New: 119 / 174 / 110 / 75 / 110 / 75
The standard Choice Band set should be solid.
Old: 65 / 125 / 100 / 60 / 70 / 70
New: 85 / 165 / 130 / 80 / 100 / 80
Slow by this meta's standards but Sucker Punch will put in work.
Old: 110 / 65 / 105 / 55 / 95 / 80
New: 150 / 75 / 135 / 65 / 135 / 100
Disgustingly bulky. It will be a premier Defog user.
Kalos:
Old: 78 / 81 / 71 / 74 / 69 / 126
New: 94 / 89 / 87 / 92 / 86 / 168
At least it gets priority Hurricane? Poor Talonflame, this thing is dogshit. I'd delete this entry because it's clearly unviable but I'll leave it here to mourn the fall of my beloved SmogonBird.
Old: 82 / 80 / 86 / 85 / 75 / 72
New: 102 / 112 / 106 / 111 / 93 / 95
Maybe Belly Drum Slurpuff will be usable?
Old: 72 / 105 / 115 / 54 / 86 / 68
New: 102 / 158 / 159 / 69 / 116 / 86
Possibly the best shell smasher of the group. With Tough Claws-boosted attacks it's definitely the strongest.
Old: 65 / 75 / 90 / 97 / 123 / 44
New: 80 / 90 / 120 / 134 / 186 / 58
It hits fairly hard and that special defense is insane.
Old: 71 / 73 / 88 / 120 / 89 / 59
New: 92 / 93 / 124 / 182 / 125 / 74
I don't think it's that great but I can't ignore Mega Launcher-boosted moves off 182 special attack.
Old: 62 / 55 / 52 / 109 / 94 / 109
New: 80 / 72 / 71 / 157 / 145 / 148
It should be fine under sun or rain. Somehow its special bulk is decent.
Old: 95 / 117 / 184 / 44 / 46 / 28
New: 135 / 165 / 283 / 56 / 57 / 28
The physical equivalent of Blissey but with decent special bulk and a great attack stat.
Old: 85 / 70 / 80 / 97 / 80 / 123
New: 130 / 110 / 125 / 149 / 120 / 189
I think this may have been discussed before but whatever. Noibat's BST is atrocious which makes Noivern very bulky, fairly strong, and impressively fast.
Alola:
Old: 95 / 115 / 90 / 80 / 90 / 60
New: 125 / 145 / 130 / 80 / 130 / 30
It loses speed but its bulk is excellent. Intimidate makes it outright disgusting. With a slow Parting Shot it will be a top tier pivot.
Old: 80 / 74 / 74 / 126 / 116 / 60
New: 100 / 79 / 79 / 151 / 141 / 70
Its stat increases are underwhelming but it still hits very hard.
Old: 77 / 70 / 90 / 145 / 75 / 43
New: 97 / 58 / 85 / 235 / 75 / 50
It has 235 base special attack. I will not elaborate.
Old: 75 / 117 / 65 / 55 / 65 / 110
New: 105 / 169 / 90 / 80 / 90 / 160
Very fast and strong. It will be difficult to switch into.
Old: 68 / 70 / 92 / 50 / 132 / 42
New: 98 / 100 / 132 / 60 / 192 / 57
Excellent power and colossal special bulk. This is the best Sticky Web user by far.
Old: 70 / 105 / 90 / 80 / 90 / 45
New: 100 / 155 / 145 / 110 / 145 / 55
Lurantis is trash but Fomantis is even more trash so this works somehow. Now it has the bulk to spam Superpower and Leaf Storm and heal with Synthesis.
Old: 60 / 45 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 30
New: 80 / 65 / 105 / 115 / 125 / 45
Still not great but Strength Sap + Spore is dumb so I can't ignore it.
Old: 120 / 125 / 80 / 55 / 60 / 60
New: 170 / 175 / 110 / 65 / 70 / 70
Amazing power and bulk, especially since it has Fluffy.
Old: 72 / 120 / 98 / 50 / 98 / 72
New: 92 / 180 / 148 / 60 / 148 / 82
I'm not going to overlook 180 attack nor will I overlook a spinner with so much bulk.
(if it were legal)
Old: 73 / 73 / 73 / 127 / 73 / 121
New: 79 / 73 / 79 / 181 / 79 / 169
Lmao
Galar:
Old: 100 / 125 / 90 / 60 / 70 / 85
New: 130 / 165 / 110 / 65 / 80 / 90
It's kinda slow now but it's really strong and has good bulk.
Old: 98 / 87 / 105 / 53 / 85 / 67
New: 128 / 107 / 155 / 63 / 115 / 57
Like Mandibuzz, it's insanely fat and can Defog on everything.
Old: 72 / 80 / 100 / 60 / 90 / 88
New: 102 / 120 / 145 / 80 / 135 / 128
With Fluffy its bulk is incredible. Bewear is probably better but this is faster and has Cotton Guard + Body Press.
Old: 90 / 115 / 90 / 48 / 68 / 74
New: 130 / 166 / 130 / 58 / 98 / 104
Chewtle has garbage stats so Drednaw now has great bulk, a good attack stat, and a good speed tier for a rain abuser.
Old: 61 / 123 / 60 / 60 / 50 / 136
New: 81 / 183 / 80 / 80 / 70 / 206
And this is what a real rain abuser looks like. This is a big part of what makes me question whether Drizzle should be legal.
Old: 100 / 115 / 65 / 90 / 90 / 65
New: 150 / 165 / 85 / 130 / 130 / 85
Its typing still sucks but that bulk is just too good to ignore.
Old: 60 / 65 / 65 / 134 / 114 / 70
New: 80 / 85 / 85 / 194 / 174 / 90
The best Shell Smasher in the game. If there's not enough priority to stop this thing then it's getting banned for sure.
Old: 57 / 90 / 95 / 136 / 103 / 29
New: 57 / 140 / 125 / 186 / 133 / 09
Why didn't they give it more HP than Hattrem? At least Draining Kiss will recover disproportionately more HP. Anyway this might be decent.
Old: 95 / 120 / 65 / 95 / 75 / 60
New: 125 / 180 / 85 / 115 / 95 / 50
It's crazy strong and has a great offensive typing along with Bulk Up and Sucker Punch. It will be very good.
Old: 93 / 90 / 101 / 60 / 81 / 95
New: 108 / 110 / 141 / 70 / 101 / 90
It gets a little stronger and bulkier. There are probably better Guts users to be found but it's still scary.
Old: 122 / 130 / 69 / 80 / 69 / 30
New: 172 / 180 / 89 / 120 / 89 / 20
Agent Raj gains much-needed bulk and a huge attack buff. Sheer Force LO hits will be even harder to switch into.
I've also decided to list all of OU and UUBL's non-evolving mons (read: every legendary except Melmetal) since it's obvious an OU-based meta will be composed solely of mons that benefit from the Re-Evolution mechanic. That reminds me, will this be a OU-based meta? I think the stats of the Ubers mons would be on par with the stats of the Re-Evolved mons but I don't mind either way.
Blacephalon, Buzzwole, Heatran, Landorus-Therian, Mew, Regieleki, Tapu Fini, Tapu Koko, Tornadus-Therian, Victini, Volcanion, Zapdos, Zapdos-Galar, Zeraora, Latias, Latios, Moltres-Galar, Terrakion, Thundurus.
The meta will look very different without them and I'm interested to see it. Especially since I spent so much damn time on this post lol; I'll submit it myself if no one else does.
Unova:
Old: 110 / 135 / 60 / 50 / 65 / 88
New: 160 / 185 / 80 / 70 / 85 / 108
Yeah this is terrifying.
Old: 105 / 95 / 75 / 85 / 75 / 74
New: 135 / 125 / 95 / 105 / 85 / 79
A fat rocker or a decent rain abuser.
Old: 60 / 100 / 89 / 55 / 69 / 112
New: 80 / 145 / 79 / 70 / 59 / 177
The HP buff is offset by losing 10 points in both defenses but it's strong and incredibly fast.
Old: 95 / 117 / 80 / 65 / 70 / 92
New: 130 / 152 / 115 / 85 / 105 / 110
A little slow to be a scarfer but its bulk is excellent with Intimidate.
Old: 65 / 90 / 115 / 45 / 115 / 58
New: 80 / 105 / 160 / 55 / 160 / 68
It's slow as hell and not that strong but its bulk is insane. Maybe there's potential for Rest + Shed Skin?
Old: 58 / 50 / 145 / 95 / 105 / 30
New: 78 / 70 / 205 / 135 / 145 / 30
Stupidly bulky with a solid special attack stat. Pain Split could work well since many mons will have huge HP stats.
Old: 60 / 105 / 60 / 120 / 60 / 105
New: 80 / 145 / 80 / 160 / 80 / 145
Very nice offensive stats.
Old: 75 / 95 / 60 / 65 / 60 / 115
New: 95 / 140 / 80 / 90 / 80 / 145
Less of a meme now that it has a good attack stat but it's probably outclassed by stronger attackers.
Old: 70 / 135 / 105 / 60 / 105 / 20
New: 90 / 195 / 165 / 80 / 165 / -40
Excellent power and bulk but with base 1 speed and no recovery. I think it's cool.
Old: 114 / 85 / 70 / 85 / 80 / 30
New: 159 / 115 / 95 / 115 / 105 / 45
As if its HP wasn't high enough already. The Regenerator mons look very obnoxious in this meta.
Old: 100 / 60 / 70 / 85 / 105 / 60
New: 145 / 80 / 90 / 105 / 125 / 80
Strength Sap looks broken when every mon has a huge attack stat. Jellicent will help the meta survive rain teams.
Old: 74 / 94 / 131 / 54 / 116 / 20
New: 104 / 138 / 171 / 84 / 146 / 30
Absolutely cursed get this thing out of my sight.
Old: 60 / 55 / 90 / 145 / 90 / 80
New: 60 / 70 / 120 / 195 / 120 / 105
Specs has like 3 switchins in the whole game while SubSplit beats everything that's slow.
Old: 76 / 147 / 90 / 60 / 70 / 97
New: 86 / 177 / 110 / 80 / 90 / 127
A viable DDer I guess, although mono-dragon STAB sucks.
Old: 95 / 130 / 80 / 70 / 80 / 50
New: 135 / 190 / 120 / 80 / 120 / 60
The premier Slush Rush abuser. Its speed isn't that impressive (outruns up to like base 140/150 under hail if Adamant iirc) but it's strong as hell and very bulky.
Old: 65 / 125 / 60 / 95 / 60 / 105
New: 85 / 165 / 70 / 135 / 70 / 145
A decently fast pivot. I'd probably use Scarf Regenerator.
Old: 89 / 124 / 80 / 55 / 80 / 55
New: 119 / 174 / 110 / 75 / 110 / 75
The standard Choice Band set should be solid.
Old: 65 / 125 / 100 / 60 / 70 / 70
New: 85 / 165 / 130 / 80 / 100 / 80
Slow by this meta's standards but Sucker Punch will put in work.
Old: 110 / 65 / 105 / 55 / 95 / 80
New: 150 / 75 / 135 / 65 / 135 / 100
Disgustingly bulky. It will be a premier Defog user.
Kalos:
Old: 78 / 81 / 71 / 74 / 69 / 126
New: 94 / 89 / 87 / 92 / 86 / 168
At least it gets priority Hurricane? Poor Talonflame, this thing is dogshit. I'd delete this entry because it's clearly unviable but I'll leave it here to mourn the fall of my beloved SmogonBird.
Old: 82 / 80 / 86 / 85 / 75 / 72
New: 102 / 112 / 106 / 111 / 93 / 95
Maybe Belly Drum Slurpuff will be usable?
Old: 72 / 105 / 115 / 54 / 86 / 68
New: 102 / 158 / 159 / 69 / 116 / 86
Possibly the best shell smasher of the group. With Tough Claws-boosted attacks it's definitely the strongest.
Old: 65 / 75 / 90 / 97 / 123 / 44
New: 80 / 90 / 120 / 134 / 186 / 58
It hits fairly hard and that special defense is insane.
Old: 71 / 73 / 88 / 120 / 89 / 59
New: 92 / 93 / 124 / 182 / 125 / 74
I don't think it's that great but I can't ignore Mega Launcher-boosted moves off 182 special attack.
Old: 62 / 55 / 52 / 109 / 94 / 109
New: 80 / 72 / 71 / 157 / 145 / 148
It should be fine under sun or rain. Somehow its special bulk is decent.
Old: 95 / 117 / 184 / 44 / 46 / 28
New: 135 / 165 / 283 / 56 / 57 / 28
The physical equivalent of Blissey but with decent special bulk and a great attack stat.
Old: 85 / 70 / 80 / 97 / 80 / 123
New: 130 / 110 / 125 / 149 / 120 / 189
I think this may have been discussed before but whatever. Noibat's BST is atrocious which makes Noivern very bulky, fairly strong, and impressively fast.
Alola:
Old: 95 / 115 / 90 / 80 / 90 / 60
New: 125 / 145 / 130 / 80 / 130 / 30
It loses speed but its bulk is excellent. Intimidate makes it outright disgusting. With a slow Parting Shot it will be a top tier pivot.
Old: 80 / 74 / 74 / 126 / 116 / 60
New: 100 / 79 / 79 / 151 / 141 / 70
Its stat increases are underwhelming but it still hits very hard.
Old: 77 / 70 / 90 / 145 / 75 / 43
New: 97 / 58 / 85 / 235 / 75 / 50
It has 235 base special attack. I will not elaborate.
Old: 75 / 117 / 65 / 55 / 65 / 110
New: 105 / 169 / 90 / 80 / 90 / 160
Very fast and strong. It will be difficult to switch into.
Old: 68 / 70 / 92 / 50 / 132 / 42
New: 98 / 100 / 132 / 60 / 192 / 57
Excellent power and colossal special bulk. This is the best Sticky Web user by far.
Old: 70 / 105 / 90 / 80 / 90 / 45
New: 100 / 155 / 145 / 110 / 145 / 55
Lurantis is trash but Fomantis is even more trash so this works somehow. Now it has the bulk to spam Superpower and Leaf Storm and heal with Synthesis.
Old: 60 / 45 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 30
New: 80 / 65 / 105 / 115 / 125 / 45
Still not great but Strength Sap + Spore is dumb so I can't ignore it.
Old: 120 / 125 / 80 / 55 / 60 / 60
New: 170 / 175 / 110 / 65 / 70 / 70
Amazing power and bulk, especially since it has Fluffy.
Old: 72 / 120 / 98 / 50 / 98 / 72
New: 92 / 180 / 148 / 60 / 148 / 82
I'm not going to overlook 180 attack nor will I overlook a spinner with so much bulk.
(if it were legal)Old: 73 / 73 / 73 / 127 / 73 / 121
New: 79 / 73 / 79 / 181 / 79 / 169
Lmao
Galar:
Old: 100 / 125 / 90 / 60 / 70 / 85
New: 130 / 165 / 110 / 65 / 80 / 90
It's kinda slow now but it's really strong and has good bulk.
Old: 98 / 87 / 105 / 53 / 85 / 67
New: 128 / 107 / 155 / 63 / 115 / 57
Like Mandibuzz, it's insanely fat and can Defog on everything.
Old: 72 / 80 / 100 / 60 / 90 / 88
New: 102 / 120 / 145 / 80 / 135 / 128
With Fluffy its bulk is incredible. Bewear is probably better but this is faster and has Cotton Guard + Body Press.
Old: 90 / 115 / 90 / 48 / 68 / 74
New: 130 / 166 / 130 / 58 / 98 / 104
Chewtle has garbage stats so Drednaw now has great bulk, a good attack stat, and a good speed tier for a rain abuser.
Old: 61 / 123 / 60 / 60 / 50 / 136
New: 81 / 183 / 80 / 80 / 70 / 206
And this is what a real rain abuser looks like. This is a big part of what makes me question whether Drizzle should be legal.
Old: 100 / 115 / 65 / 90 / 90 / 65
New: 150 / 165 / 85 / 130 / 130 / 85
Its typing still sucks but that bulk is just too good to ignore.
Old: 60 / 65 / 65 / 134 / 114 / 70
New: 80 / 85 / 85 / 194 / 174 / 90
The best Shell Smasher in the game. If there's not enough priority to stop this thing then it's getting banned for sure.
Old: 57 / 90 / 95 / 136 / 103 / 29
New: 57 / 140 / 125 / 186 / 133 / 09
Why didn't they give it more HP than Hattrem? At least Draining Kiss will recover disproportionately more HP. Anyway this might be decent.
Old: 95 / 120 / 65 / 95 / 75 / 60
New: 125 / 180 / 85 / 115 / 95 / 50
It's crazy strong and has a great offensive typing along with Bulk Up and Sucker Punch. It will be very good.
Old: 93 / 90 / 101 / 60 / 81 / 95
New: 108 / 110 / 141 / 70 / 101 / 90
It gets a little stronger and bulkier. There are probably better Guts users to be found but it's still scary.
Old: 122 / 130 / 69 / 80 / 69 / 30
New: 172 / 180 / 89 / 120 / 89 / 20
Agent Raj gains much-needed bulk and a huge attack buff. Sheer Force LO hits will be even harder to switch into.
As I've gone through and added up the new stats I've noticed that +25/30 per stat is a fairly common increase. Offensive mons need more to not fall behind in power creep because defensive mons gain both HP and the relevant defensive stat.
I've also decided to list all of OU and UUBL's non-evolving mons (read: every legendary except Melmetal) since it's obvious an OU-based meta will be composed solely of mons that benefit from the Re-Evolution mechanic. That reminds me, will this be a OU-based meta? I think the stats of the Ubers mons would be on par with the stats of the Re-Evolved mons but I don't mind either way.
Blacephalon, Buzzwole, Heatran, Landorus-Therian, Mew, Regieleki, Tapu Fini, Tapu Koko, Tornadus-Therian, Victini, Volcanion, Zapdos, Zapdos-Galar, Zeraora, Latias, Latios, Moltres-Galar, Terrakion, Thundurus.
The meta will look very different without them and I'm interested to see it. Especially since I spent so much damn time on this post lol; I'll submit it myself if no one else does.
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That meta with the stat sharing evolutions doesn’t sound good to me to be brutally honest. Either some things would get ridiculously powerful, or everything gets stronger and thus nothing changes that much. IMO it doesn’t offer anything that metas like Nature Swap, Tier Shift and Mix and Mega don’t.
Considering most Ubers and a lot of OU mons don't evolve, this definitely isn't happening.
Fully evolved mons still get the boosts
I'm aware. Most Ubers and a lot of OU mons don't have prevos, is that better?
Is going to be Ubers based, is not rare to see +150 stats boosts, or even stuff over the 200 (there is also stuff like Scizor that doesnt really change much, but anything under 100 is actually rare). Re-evolving put most stuff in the 650-720 BST range, is a bigger boost than mega evolving for those mons and they can hold items, they are more than comparable to cover legendaries.
This also means stuff like Naganadel and Cinderace are legal, and Solgaleo and Lunala may or not be banned for being at the level of Mega-Rayquaza, if not stronger.
I can understand that feeling, but is different enough from every other "stats change" meta, NS and M&M are more about using your creativity on how you use the gimmick, TS gives everyone a similar boost giving priority to lower tiered mons.
Re-Evo is more like Mega-Evolution with less restrictions, the gimmick doesnt try to be fair to every mon, only certain mons get access to it and some get better changes than others, this gives the tier an unique identity, is like a new generation full of new evolutions, were the mons just happen to have the same name as their previous form.
Pocket Moves
The idea behind this new Metagame is very simple:
Each Pokemon have access to normal 4 moves with their normal pp amounts... no tweaks to abilities, just standard OU format for the most part...
And then there is a twist: Each Pokemon have also have access to fifth (5th) move with just a single pp use.
The so called Pocket Move, stored in there just in case for that one special occasion which otherwise would not be used in any normal circumstance.
It would still have to come from Pokemon normal movepool - we are not introducing new moves into Pokemons movepool like in STABmons.
I heard that Pokemon as a game was balanced and designed with each pokemon having only 4 moves in mind and that giving them more would lead to less interesting metagames... And if we were to just allow having five moves with no restrictions attached to it? That might have been the case...
What this metagame is trying to achieve is to answer the question:
Could fifth move with even just a single use break the game?
Every Pokemon have access to their Pocket move of choice (from their movepool) in fifth slot. You have to insert it manually in Import/Export section and at the moment there is no other elegant way of doing that...
I'm not aware of any other similar suggestion from this Thread... But also I was not looking through (at the time of writing) 57 pages filled to the brim with post of other users mixed with feedback.
If there were any ideas like this - I will link those in this post, just please let me know.
Here are few examples of movesets utilizing those new Pocket slots:
I hope you like the idea for Metagame! I'm curious what other cool sets people will bring there! :D
The idea behind this new Metagame is very simple:
Each Pokemon have access to normal 4 moves with their normal pp amounts... no tweaks to abilities, just standard OU format for the most part...
And then there is a twist: Each Pokemon have also have access to fifth (5th) move with just a single pp use.
The so called Pocket Move, stored in there just in case for that one special occasion which otherwise would not be used in any normal circumstance.
It would still have to come from Pokemon normal movepool - we are not introducing new moves into Pokemons movepool like in STABmons.
I heard that Pokemon as a game was balanced and designed with each pokemon having only 4 moves in mind and that giving them more would lead to less interesting metagames... And if we were to just allow having five moves with no restrictions attached to it? That might have been the case...
What this metagame is trying to achieve is to answer the question:
Could fifth move with even just a single use break the game?
Every Pokemon have access to their Pocket move of choice (from their movepool) in fifth slot. You have to insert it manually in Import/Export section and at the moment there is no other elegant way of doing that...
I'm not aware of any other similar suggestion from this Thread... But also I was not looking through (at the time of writing) 57 pages filled to the brim with post of other users mixed with feedback.
If there were any ideas like this - I will link those in this post, just please let me know.
Here are few examples of movesets utilizing those new Pocket slots:
Hawlucha @ King's Rock / Power Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Close Combat
- Fire Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Fling / Sky Attack
Normally when running Unburden set, Hawlucha have to sacrifice one of it's limited 4 slots for Fling, which limits it's moveset greatly...
With Pocket Moves however, Fling could be put in that Pocket Slot instead, giving it only one use... but you also have only one item anyway so you don't lose much by it being only one use.
Alternatively, you can swap Pocket Fling and King's Rock for Pocket Sky Attack and Power Herb - replace guaranteed Flinch on a weak attack with Powerful Flying Attack without any special effects.
Now I don't know if this specific set would be good in that Metagame - I just made it as an example. Maybe Iron Head would be better at countering Fairies. Maybe Drain Punch could be better for longer survivability? Perhaps Substitute could provide great utility in preventing most status effects from affecting your Hawlucha? Sword Dance for setting up with already boosted speed? There are few options and Hawlucha is not the only Pokemon with those options either!
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Close Combat
- Fire Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Fling / Sky Attack
Normally when running Unburden set, Hawlucha have to sacrifice one of it's limited 4 slots for Fling, which limits it's moveset greatly...
With Pocket Moves however, Fling could be put in that Pocket Slot instead, giving it only one use... but you also have only one item anyway so you don't lose much by it being only one use.
Alternatively, you can swap Pocket Fling and King's Rock for Pocket Sky Attack and Power Herb - replace guaranteed Flinch on a weak attack with Powerful Flying Attack without any special effects.
Now I don't know if this specific set would be good in that Metagame - I just made it as an example. Maybe Iron Head would be better at countering Fairies. Maybe Drain Punch could be better for longer survivability? Perhaps Substitute could provide great utility in preventing most status effects from affecting your Hawlucha? Sword Dance for setting up with already boosted speed? There are few options and Hawlucha is not the only Pokemon with those options either!
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs / Anticipation
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Knock Off
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Explosion
What you can see here is an example of Ferrothon Utility moveset.
The only difference is that now... this guy also have Pocket Explosion.
Normally Explosion have 8 uses, but... it's not like you are going to survive after using it once, can you?
In this case Explosion adds a very destructive option on possibly eliminating opposing Pokemon who you can't eliminate in any other way.
Opponent switches in his sweeper, you didn't predicted that would happen here and there or maybe there was a key U-Turn switch... Just swapping Pokemon might be already too late, so... knowing all this you decide that what have to be done MUST be done.
Also as a bonus:
You could consider running Anticipation in order to scout out those super effective moves from opponents. Maybe wouldn't be too good in this example since for the most part you are switching into foes with the Ferrothorn which you are confident don't have said moves, though sometimes scouting that Pocket Flamethrower or other coverage move you didn't accounted for might be a life savior.
A very similar idea would be sets with Memento or other moves which turns your own Pokemon into Fainted one. Sacrifices must me made sometimes.
Ability: Iron Barbs / Anticipation
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Knock Off
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Explosion
What you can see here is an example of Ferrothon Utility moveset.
The only difference is that now... this guy also have Pocket Explosion.
Normally Explosion have 8 uses, but... it's not like you are going to survive after using it once, can you?
In this case Explosion adds a very destructive option on possibly eliminating opposing Pokemon who you can't eliminate in any other way.
Opponent switches in his sweeper, you didn't predicted that would happen here and there or maybe there was a key U-Turn switch... Just swapping Pokemon might be already too late, so... knowing all this you decide that what have to be done MUST be done.
Also as a bonus:
You could consider running Anticipation in order to scout out those super effective moves from opponents. Maybe wouldn't be too good in this example since for the most part you are switching into foes with the Ferrothorn which you are confident don't have said moves, though sometimes scouting that Pocket Flamethrower or other coverage move you didn't accounted for might be a life savior.
A very similar idea would be sets with Memento or other moves which turns your own Pokemon into Fainted one. Sacrifices must me made sometimes.
Kartana @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike
- Defog / X-Scissor
You could also just include one additional coverage move for very specific pokemon OR a utility move.
This specific set is basically Paper Plane with both Smart Strike (STAB move) and Defog (Pocket Move) for those emergency hazard removals.
Alternatively you can include a move which would counter a very specific group of Pokemon with niche weakness. Not a move which you would normally run, but rather something which would only win you one specific KO if you had the move.
Mind you, in this example after using that one move YOU WILL be locked into Struggle since you will be locked into a move without any uses left.
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike
- Defog / X-Scissor
You could also just include one additional coverage move for very specific pokemon OR a utility move.
This specific set is basically Paper Plane with both Smart Strike (STAB move) and Defog (Pocket Move) for those emergency hazard removals.
Alternatively you can include a move which would counter a very specific group of Pokemon with niche weakness. Not a move which you would normally run, but rather something which would only win you one specific KO if you had the move.
Mind you, in this example after using that one move YOU WILL be locked into Struggle since you will be locked into a move without any uses left.
Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Transform
I thought I would mention Ditto and Transform move for a moment since it get's buffed in this Metagame.
By transforming into other Pokemon you gain access to all their moves - usually 4 different moves - with 5 uses on each one of them.
In this meta however... we also have Pocket Moves which for everyone else only have one use. For Ditto and Mew (I will get to Mew in a moment) which would transform into other Pokemon however... that Pocket move would also have 5 uses.
Already by simply transforming you obtain key information on enemy set including that one Pocket move they are holding... but you also can use those moves without same restriction!
Mew @ Item of your choice
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: EVs of your choice, preferably with max Health
Nature of your choice
- Imprison
- Transform
- Move of your choice
- Move of your choice
- Move of your choice / Imprison / Transform
Mew is soo flexible because of insane movepool it have access to, but one tactic that might stand out especially is Imprison + Transform tactic.
... or even just Transform on it's own.
You could just run any Mew set you want and slap Transform into their Pocket Move Slot OR you could run Transform in one of the main 4 slots and fit Imprison in Pocket Slot... Or you might decide to run both Transform and Imprison in main slots and take another move in that slot.
I feel like a variant with Transform in Pocket Move might be one of better ones for the simple reason that you can become enemy Pokemon quicker all while keeping other usual movesets this Pokemon might have run.
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Transform
I thought I would mention Ditto and Transform move for a moment since it get's buffed in this Metagame.
By transforming into other Pokemon you gain access to all their moves - usually 4 different moves - with 5 uses on each one of them.
In this meta however... we also have Pocket Moves which for everyone else only have one use. For Ditto and Mew (I will get to Mew in a moment) which would transform into other Pokemon however... that Pocket move would also have 5 uses.
Already by simply transforming you obtain key information on enemy set including that one Pocket move they are holding... but you also can use those moves without same restriction!
Mew @ Item of your choice
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: EVs of your choice, preferably with max Health
Nature of your choice
- Imprison
- Transform
- Move of your choice
- Move of your choice
- Move of your choice / Imprison / Transform
Mew is soo flexible because of insane movepool it have access to, but one tactic that might stand out especially is Imprison + Transform tactic.
... or even just Transform on it's own.
You could just run any Mew set you want and slap Transform into their Pocket Move Slot OR you could run Transform in one of the main 4 slots and fit Imprison in Pocket Slot... Or you might decide to run both Transform and Imprison in main slots and take another move in that slot.
I feel like a variant with Transform in Pocket Move might be one of better ones for the simple reason that you can become enemy Pokemon quicker all while keeping other usual movesets this Pokemon might have run.
Blissey @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunder Wave / Toxic
- Teleport
- Rest
Here is an example of Defensive Moveset with addition to Pocket Rest - just to allow emergency recovery.
Normally running two healing moves might be considered not the best if you are limited by amount of moves you can carry...
But if you gain access to one move with single use? There are only few actions which might be worth the slot.
I have chosen Rest as it allows for immediate refilling of your Health Bar, while for more standard slot I left Soft-Boiled in order to stay engaged with the opponent. In case of Rest, Blissey does have access to ability Natural Cure which let's her cure status effects when switching out. That of course would include Sleeping Status caused by Rest.
That being said - you could probably fit in many other move for different effects.
- Counter is a very specific move which might allow you to take out one Physical Attacker not strong enough to OHKO you.
- Any move which applies status on enemy Pokemon while keeping other one in main movepool.
- You could consider Wish as one-time healing move for another Pokemon OR to allow this one to survive next turn easier.
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunder Wave / Toxic
- Teleport
- Rest
Here is an example of Defensive Moveset with addition to Pocket Rest - just to allow emergency recovery.
Normally running two healing moves might be considered not the best if you are limited by amount of moves you can carry...
But if you gain access to one move with single use? There are only few actions which might be worth the slot.
I have chosen Rest as it allows for immediate refilling of your Health Bar, while for more standard slot I left Soft-Boiled in order to stay engaged with the opponent. In case of Rest, Blissey does have access to ability Natural Cure which let's her cure status effects when switching out. That of course would include Sleeping Status caused by Rest.
That being said - you could probably fit in many other move for different effects.
- Counter is a very specific move which might allow you to take out one Physical Attacker not strong enough to OHKO you.
- Any move which applies status on enemy Pokemon while keeping other one in main movepool.
- You could consider Wish as one-time healing move for another Pokemon OR to allow this one to survive next turn easier.
I hope you like the idea for Metagame! I'm curious what other cool sets people will bring there! :D
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