Metagame 1v1 Metagame Discussion

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lost heros

Meme Master
is a Pre-Contributor
Hey everyone, I want to start a conversation on Status Z-moves and if offensive Z-moves are banned will Status Z-Moves go with them.

When the ladder first went up, literally no one was using Status Z-moves, because let'a face it: they look like shit. The only one that was ever really considered was Z-conversion. However, as of recent they've become slightly more notable, although not by much. Strangely, Z-Celebrate, conversion, Forest's Curse, Geomancy, Happy Hour, Hold Hands, Purify, Sketch and Trick-or-treat are the least used Z-status moves. As the only notable pokemon that runs one of those is Porygon-Z which usually runs specs or scarf anyways.

The best Z-status moves are Charm and Reflect which work incredibly simply. Is there a physical attack? If so cut its power by 3, which is by god insane. XSTATIC COLD came up with Z-Reflect/psychic Tapu Lele, while I originally used Z-Charm Alolan-Persian. I've since moved on to Z-Charm Umbreon because of the increased special bulk and recovery option. (I'll make a post about that beast later). And those aren't the only potential Reflect/Charm users. Reflect, Charm, and Feather Dance which all do the same thing have a fairly nice distribution and there is a lot of potential for these physically bulky sets.

Unfortunately there's no really good special counterpart. Z-Eerie Impulse, which has the same affect specially, has no good users really. I have however used Z-Cosmic Power Deoxys-D which raises Sp. Def by one in addition to the one from regular Cosmic Power. Originally everyone I went up against said it was complete trash, but then I would usually beat them with it and trigger them.

Now outside the additional +1s (and the occasional +2s), what makes Status Z-moves so great (because let's face it they still don't seem that great)? They bypass typical Stall answers. Z-crystals can't be tricked. I've won tons of battles turn 1 when Porygon-Z, Jirachi, Victini, and Latios have all tried to trick my Deoxys-D. They bypass taunt. Even when taunted by Mega-Gyarados, Umbreon still neuters it. They also bypass encore/disable, which just ruins Mega-Alakazam's day. All of this means that what were once impossible match-ups for stall Pokemon like Deoxys-D become easy wins, which is insane. Gone are the days of simply putting Trick on your Choice threats to shut down stall pokemon. Gone are the days where simply Taunting Taunt-bait that just wants to use toxic (I lost earlier to a Z-Toxic Toxapex).

So, now the question is: are they as good as Z-Attacks and would they get banned together? My answer is that they're different than Z-Attacks, but probably worse. Z-Status moves, in my experience, make a Stall mon's match-up more favorable by adding a slight benefit or bypassing typical answers. Z-Attacks overwhelm the opposing pokemon with raw power, which in an offensive metagame like 1v1 is probably better. Since they are reasonably different, I'd argue they shouldn't be banned together, however, because they operate on the same mechanic, and I absolutely despise complex/in-game bans, I'll say they be treated as one.

So, what does anyone else have to say? Good Z-Status Users? Are Z-Status Moves broken? Should they be banned alongside Z-Attacks, if those get banned?
 
So, what does anyone else have to say? Good Z-Status Users? Are Z-Status Moves broken? Should they be banned alongside Z-Attacks, if those get banned?
The only ones NEAR broken are Electrium Z or Rockium Z, neither of which have amazing status uses. As you proved in your post, status Z-moves are probably the most balanced of any of them.

Anyways, the majority of us have two thoughts about the meta.

Should we ban Electrium Z (Tapu Koko) or Rockium Z (Crustle/Donphan)?
Now, from what I've seen and heard, most people don't want to ban (m)any Z-stones, and really the only GOOD ones are the two I just mentioned.

What about Gyarados-Mega? That mon has come up in more of my conversations recently than Charizard, Tapu Koko, Crustle, Mimikyu, and Dragonite combined. I also feel less people will bother using One Hit Koko (Ay I made a funny nickname!) if Gyarados-Mega leaves (especially since ground type usage would begin to arise significantly). It's skewed the meta more than One Hit Koko every could.

If we can decide on Z-moves, I'd like to point out that the five people who I know have gotten rank 1 in gen 7 (ever since you've had to get over 1700 elo to get rank 1) all have had one thing in common: Mega-Gyarados.

Are Z-moves going to be suspected? Or banned? Or anything?
I'd like to highlight these points, as they're quite important right now.

My opinion? Gyarados-Mega is far more centralizing than any Z-move right now, and Z-moves aren't broken... as long as Gyarados-Mega is on your team.

The Immortal, what are we going to do? Should we vote on Z-Moves, move on to Gyarados-Mega discussion, or something else?
 

Rosa

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Mega Gyarados is not getting suspected or banned. Usage alone should never have any influence over whether or not something gets banned unless it's an extreme situation, which only ever happens in more desolate tiers/metas, like Mega Pinsir in Return'd. And while Gyarados may be good, it's not that good.

And I don't really think Z-Stones are the problem, if there even is a problem, currently. The main problem is that two of the meta-defining pokemon that also acted as two of the biggest threats to Crustle, and even Donphan to an extent, are gone (Mega Mawile and Aggron). Since these two were so common and more or less destroyed Crustle and Donphan, they didn't really get the chance to be as viable as they could have been, since Rockium on Donphan and Crustle is barely different from Choice Band sets back in gen 6.
So for the meantime Metagross and Heatran will have to be our go-to Steel type counters, but unfortunately I've hardly seen either of them going around.
 
Mega Gyarados is not getting suspected or banned. Usage alone should never have any influence over whether or not something gets banned unless it's an extreme situation
Why not? We can suspect and ban Mega-Gyarados if we decide to, can't we? It's the most OP pokemon in 1v1 by a fair margin, so wouldn't it be the pokemon most likely to be suspected or banned?

I was just trying to make the point that Mega-Gyarados is more OP than Z-moves, anyway. It's not like I'm exaggerating. No one has gotten rank 1 without Mega-Gyarados this gen. I think that says something about how good Mega-Gyarados is.

Since these two were so common and more or less destroyed Crustle and Donphan, they didn't really get the chance to be as viable as they could have been, since Rockium on Donphan and Crustle is barely different from Choice Band sets back in gen 6.
I'd argue they're quite a bit better and that that is the reason you're seeing them more. Donphan and Crustle didn't have anything of these things last gen: Head Smash not breaking Sturdy, Head Smash not missing, being able to use Rock Wrecker twice, and being able to able to switch moves without giving up Choice Band's power.

Good Z-Status Users? Are Z-Status Moves broken? Should they be banned alongside Z-Attacks, if those get banned?
I think it's infeasible to ban attacking Z-Moves and leave Z-status moves alone. It would be needlessly complicated.

Good Z-Status Users?
Z-Charm Umbreon is good. It's hard to fit on a team, though, since it loses so hard to Fairy, Fighting, Genesect and other stall pokemon. Substitute also gives it lots of problems. Anything that can beat both Charizards and Mega-Gyarados can't be that bad, though.

I think Z-Cosmic Power Deoxys-Defense is about as good as regular Deoxys-Defense. Giving up Leftovers or Sitrus Berry is a real trade-off. They both remain kind of weak to Taunt, even with a Z-Move. Additionally, they still have stall pokemons' biggest weakness: hax.

Z-Sleep Powder isn't awful. It's not as good as Wide Lens on Jumpluff, though. Hoopa-Unbound can use the Z-Reflect/Psychic combo almost as well as Tapu Lele can. Tapu Fini can use Z-Withdraw.

Z-Eerie Impulse, which has the same affect specially, has no good users really.
My 100% win-rate (1-0) Z-Eerie Impulse Lanturn begs to differ.


Tapu Fini @ Choice Specs
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Shadow Ball

Another pokemon that's good by virtue of its Water-Fairy typing. Basically the same thing as Primarina, but weaker and tankier. Base 85 speed can be useful, also. You can outspeed Magnezone if you choose to, for example. It manages to live a Scarf Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt 100% of the time, which Primarina can't do.
Neither you nor your opponent can be statused. for the first 5 turns of the battle due to its ability. This is overall a detriment because it means you can't hax Sturdy or physical pokemon with Scald, but it does make it harder to stall you.
You can use Hydro Pump if you feel like missing. Shadow Ball is to hit Metagross. Ice Beam is used because Tapu Fini's movepool isn't that good and I couldn't think of a better move.
 

lost heros

Meme Master
is a Pre-Contributor
Mega Gyarados is not getting suspected or banned. Usage alone should never have any influence over whether or not something gets banned unless it's an extreme situation, which only ever happens in more desolate tiers/metas, like Mega Pinsir in Return'd. And while Gyarados may be good, it's not that good.
I have to agree with Glyx here. Gyarados-Mega isn't centralizing. It's popular because it has the exact same qualities as last gen (Dragon Dance, Intimidate + Mold Breaker, Amazing Coverage, Taunt, Great Stats), but it also has the added bonus of beating Sturdy (and Multiscale) Z-Users. It also lost it's most prominent check (Mawile-Mega) and it's most reliable (imo) and not too prominent counters (Gardevoir-Mega), but that just means it's no longer and absolute necessity to pair Gyarados-Mega with a steel/fire type. Gyarados-Mega is a top tier S+ Pokemon. I also want to point out it's not the most versatile pokemon there is. It has at most three sets Dragon Dance + 3 attacks, Dragon Dance, Taunt + 2 attacks, and the less popular Dragon Dance, Sub + 2 attacks. The only variable then is which of the four attacks you'd use Crunch, Waterfall, Outrage, Earthquake. The real most versatile pokemon there is in 1v1 is Kyurem-B who ran last gen Choice Scarf, Choice Band, Choice Specs, Haban Berry, Weakness Policy, and now also can run Icium-Z all of which are A, if not S sets.
And I don't really think Z-Stones are the problem, if there even is a problem, currently. The main problem is that two of the meta-defining pokemon that also acted as two of the biggest threats to Crustle, and even Donphan to an extent, are gone (Mega Mawile and Aggron). Since these two were so common and more or less destroyed Crustle and Donphan, they didn't really get the chance to be as viable as they could have been, since Rockium on Donphan and Crustle is barely different from Choice Band sets back in gen 6.
So for the meantime Metagross and Heatran will have to be our go-to Steel type counters, but unfortunately I've hardly seen either of them going around.
They're more consistent as now Crustle can set up with Shell Smash first and go for a powerful attack, I don't disagree though that the lack of Mawile-Mega allowed them to rise in usage.

Z-Charm Umbreon is good. It's hard to fit on a team, though, since it loses so hard to Fairy, Fighting, Genesect and other stall pokemon. Substitute also gives it lots of problems. Anything that can beat both Charizards and Mega-Gyarados can't be that bad, though.
Building it on a Stallier team is pretty easy. It's your team's premier Physical Defender with a surprising amount of Special Bulk. It also beats Crustle, Donphan, and numerous other top tier threats.
I think Z-Cosmic Power Deoxys-Defense is about as good as regular Deoxys-Defense. Giving up Leftovers or Sitrus Berry is a real trade-off. They both remain kind of weak to Taunt, even with a Z-Move. Additionally, they still have stall pokemons' biggest weakness: hax.
I agree. It's still nice that Deoxys-Defense has a second set now. And fuck hax.
Z-Sleep Powder isn't awful. It's not as good as Wide Lens on Jumpluff, though. Hoopa-Unbound can use the Z-Reflect/Psychic combo almost as well as Tapu Lele can. Tapu Fini can use Z-Withdraw.
Who would use Z-Sleep Powder? Jumpluff is already plenty fast. I'll have to try those at one point.

My 100% win-rate (1-0) Z-Eerie Impulse Lanturn begs to differ.
Wow I feel rekt.
 
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The Immortal

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The Immortal, what are we going to do? Should we vote on Z-Moves, move on to Gyarados-Mega discussion, or something else?
You don't "vote" on what should be suspected. You provide reasoning to justify your potential suspect.

If you feel a Z-Crystal is broken, post it with calcs to back it up. If you feel all Z-Crystals are broken, post them all with calcs to back them up.
This doesn't just apply to Z-Crystals but to anything in 1v1. Once I see convincing arguments for something to be suspected, it will be suspected.
 
Amidst the usual Porygon Z sets I would like to propose one that has not been spoken about yet: Bulky Electrium Z
porygon-z.gif
normal_Z-Crystal_artwork.png

Porygon-Z @ Electrium Z
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 48 HP / 180 Def / 248 SpA / 32 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Beam
- Uproar
- Thunder
- Nasty Plot


This set is meant to deal with would-be counters to a standard scarf P-Z set while also maintaining the stall breaking potential that choice specs sometimes fails to deliver.

The 48 HP/ 180 defense allows you to tank a Char X outrage and relatiate with hyper beam. 32 Speed speed creeps the standard 100 speed of a bulky mega gyarados.

Mega Gyarados cannot reliably take a gigvolt havoc without a very substantial investment in special bulk so it can indeed take a hit, but not without making itself lose a bunch of other matchups due to the sacrifices that must be made. Most Mega Blastoise will fall to this set as well and it's curtains for Celesteela.

On the chance that you survive a physical hit from a genesect, gigavolt havoc has a favourable chance to OHKO. You can invest a little more in physical bulk to ensure that you beat Rockium Donphan, but I am not sure of what matchups may be effected from loss of speed or special attack.

On first impression you might pass this off as an inferior Tapu Koko, but this set can take out many mons that Koko already does while also taking out charizard X and Kyurem B.

This set gets bopped by any special attackers that outspeed it like usual. Kartana bops this thing as well most physical attackers that have fighting coverage or can live a hit and attack twice.

Either way, I am pretty pleased with this set with the small amount of testing I have done and I look forward to it being a potential alternative to scarf or specs.

EDIT: I know that uproar on scarf can already still beat Gyarados so you don't need to mention it.
 
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Amidst the usual Porygon Z sets I would like to propose one that has not been spoken about yet: Bulky Electrium Z
View attachment 76719 View attachment 76725
Porygon-Z @ Electrium Z
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 48 HP / 180 Def / 248 SpA / 32 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Beam
- Uproar
- Thunder
- Nasty Plot


This set is meant to deal with would-be counters to a standard scarf P-Z set while also maintaining the stall breaking potential that choice specs sometimes fails to deliver.

The 48 HP/ 180 defense allows you to tank a Char X outrage and relatiate with hyper beam. 32 Speed speed creeps the standard 100 speed of a bulky mega gyarados.

Mega Gyarados cannot reliably take a gigvolt havoc without a very substantial investment in special bulk so it can indeed take a hit, but not without making itself lose a bunch of other matchups due to the sacrifices that must be made. Most Mega Blastoise will fall to this set as well and it's curtains for Celesteela.

On the chance that you survive a physical hit from a genesect, gigavolt havoc has a favourable chance to OHKO. You can invest a little more in physical bulk to ensure that you beat Rockium Donphan, but I am not sure of what matchups may be effected from loss of speed or special attack.

On first impression you might pass this off as an inferior Tapu Koko, but this set can take out many mons that Koko already does while also taking out charizard X and Kyurem B.

This set gets bopped by any special attackers that outspeed it like usual. Kartana bops this thing as well most physical attackers that have fighting coverage or can live a hit and attack twice.

Either way, I am pretty pleased with this set with the small amount of testing I have done and I look forward to it being a potential alternative to scarf or specs.

EDIT: I know that uproar on scarf can already still beat Gyarados so you don't need to mention it.
Okay, as an avid Porygon-Z user I like the idea, but I think the set can be refined a little bit:

Porygon-Z @ Electrium Z
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 20 HP / 252 Def / 236 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Beam
- Thunder / Zap Cannon
- Uproar / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Nasty Plot

I took the points out of speed because there's no point outspeeding Gyarados, especially if you're running Uproar. You tank any of it's hits comfortably, even at +1. With 20 HP and 252 Defense, you can tank a Donphan CCrush+Ice Shard combo and KO with two non-electric moves. Uproar is only really good for 2hkoing Sturdy mons and dealing with Substitute/Sleep mons (Jumpluff), though you don't outspeed Smeargle so you can't prevent his Spore. HP Fire is another option for this slot since it nails Steel types, but can't 2hko Donphan. The last thing to consider is using Zap Cannon over Thunder. You do a little bit more damage - base 190 instead of 185 - but your accuracy drops to 50 instead of 70 after the first hit. You've got other options for follow-up so it may be worth it for that extra boost in damage.
 
Huh. I wasn't aware that zap cannon got buffed. Thanks for mentioning that lol.

As for HP fire, I was just not aware of any normal 1v1 mon that HP fire would hit effectively and still win. Metagross and magearna still wreck you, kartana is kartana, and scizor is 2HKO'd by fire or gigavolt.
 
Mega Gyarados is not getting suspected or banned. Usage alone should never have any influence over whether or not something gets banned unless it's an extreme situation, which only ever happens in more desolate tiers/metas, like Mega Pinsir in Return'd. And while Gyarados may be good, it's not that good.
It's not just usage. Mimikyu got more overall usage than Gyarados-Mega. It simply is that good, or almost so, and there's no denying it.
*TIBot: Mimikyu - #1 in 1v1 | Usage: 11.57611% | Raw count: 24,274 | Weight: 0.692571900992
*TIBot: Gyarados-Mega - #2 in 1v1 | Usage: 9.63889% | Raw count: 16,359 | Weight: 0.911256582248

However, if you do .usage1760, Mimikyu has less higher ladder usage. This really just means good players use Gyarados-Mega more because it's winning them enough games to stay that high.
*TIBot: Mimikyu - #2 in 1v1 | Usage: 13.28407% | Raw count: 24,274 | Weight: 0.00901344080977
*TIBot: Gyarados-Mega - #1 in 1v1 | Usage: 25.43561% | Raw count: 16,359 | Weight: 0.0214271976892

I have to agree with Glyx here. Gyarados-Mega isn't centralizing. It's popular because it has the exact same qualities as last gen (Dragon Dance, Intimidate + Mold Breaker, Amazing Coverage, Taunt, Great Stats), but it also has the added bonus of beating Sturdy (and Multiscale) Z-Users. It also lost it's most prominent check (Mawile-Mega) and it's most reliable (imo) and not too prominent counters (Gardevoir-Mega), but that just means it's no longer and absolute necessity to pair Gyarados-Mega with a steel/fire type. Gyarados-Mega is a top tier S+ Pokemon. I also want to point out it's not the most versatile pokemon there is. It has at most three sets Dragon Dance + 3 attacks, Dragon Dance, Taunt + 2 attacks, and the less popular Dragon Dance, Sub + 2 attacks. The only variable then is which of the four attacks you'd use Crunch, Waterfall, Outrage, Earthquake. The real most versatile pokemon there is in 1v1 is Kyurem-B who ran last gen Choice Scarf, Choice Band, Choice Specs, Haban Berry, Weakness Policy, and now also can run Icium-Z all of which are A, if not S sets.
I agree and disagree. You made good points, but at the same time, Gyarados-Mega doesn't really NEED any more moves. It's current movesets are just that versatile. Taunt, DDanced Waterfall/Outrage, and its other moves simply beat all they need to already. Its true that the meta has led it to be powerful, but its really close to the border of too powerful for the current meta with all its raw power.

Amidst the usual Porygon Z sets I would like to propose one that has not been spoken about yet: Bulky Electrium Z
View attachment 76719 View attachment 76725
Porygon-Z @ Electrium Z
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 48 HP / 180 Def / 248 SpA / 32 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Beam
- Uproar
- Thunder
- Nasty Plot


This set is meant to deal with would-be counters to a standard scarf P-Z set while also maintaining the stall breaking potential that choice specs sometimes fails to deliver.

The 48 HP/ 180 defense allows you to tank a Char X outrage and relatiate with hyper beam. 32 Speed speed creeps the standard 100 speed of a bulky mega gyarados.

Mega Gyarados cannot reliably take a gigvolt havoc without a very substantial investment in special bulk so it can indeed take a hit, but not without making itself lose a bunch of other matchups due to the sacrifices that must be made. Most Mega Blastoise will fall to this set as well and it's curtains for Celesteela.

On the chance that you survive a physical hit from a genesect, gigavolt havoc has a favourable chance to OHKO. You can invest a little more in physical bulk to ensure that you beat Rockium Donphan, but I am not sure of what matchups may be effected from loss of speed or special attack.

On first impression you might pass this off as an inferior Tapu Koko, but this set can take out many mons that Koko already does while also taking out charizard X and Kyurem B.

This set gets bopped by any special attackers that outspeed it like usual. Kartana bops this thing as well most physical attackers that have fighting coverage or can live a hit and attack twice.

Either way, I am pretty pleased with this set with the small amount of testing I have done and I look forward to it being a potential alternative to scarf or specs.

EDIT: I know that uproar on scarf can already still beat Gyarados so you don't need to mention it.
It can also beat Shadow Sneak Greninja, can't it? Anyways, I like it. Slap Gigavolt Havoc on a good mon with thunder, right?

Either way, I like the sets coming out now, and really want to try them all.
 
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Rosa

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252 Atk Tapu Koko Wild Charge (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 520-613 (73.8 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-2 252 Atk Tapu Koko Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 135-159 (19.1 - 22.5%) -- possible 5HKO

This is physically biased electrium-z vs the average chansey spread
The rolls round out to somewhere between a 50% and 60% chance of 2hko-ing, putting the odds in the favor of Tapu Koko towards 2hko-ing one of the generally bulkiest pokemon in existence >~> Not to mention it packs Taunt, so this threat basically just ruins stall And that's without even mentioning the other viable Choice sets that could exist on this thing. Otherwise it's basically just a 50/50 between whether Chansey uses Charm turn 1 or Counter, or if it gets smacked down completely by Taunt. We may have to look into suspecting Tapu Koko as a whole. Though that seems like it should be OU's problem before it becomes ours

Gyarados vs. Crustle seems to be left completely up to EV battles, with Waterfall being a chanced KO vs no bulk as well as +1 Z-Rock Wrecker being a chanced KO vs 192/76 bulk Gyarados (The most common bulky Gyarados spread according to TIBot). Seeing as how Gyarados is supposed to be the go-to "counter" for Crustle, this seems like a problem. So, other than Gyarados (Which is still questionable at that.), the only generally viable Pokemon as in, NOT niche stuff like Hippowdon or something that can threaten Crustle are Aegislash, Chansey (do people still even use this anymore), Metagross, Slowbro, and Rhyperior (is this still viable? I tried it and it seems kinda eh now) though I'm just judging off of what I can see from skimming over every Pokemon in the teambuilder. I will gladly admit when I'm wrong, and I was definitely wrong to undersell this giant piece of mud lasagna. With Mawile and Aggron gone, there is so little that actually counters it without having to prepare for it in some form, regardless of item.

Since we're discussing bans I'll leave Donphan out of it, since it has only lost threats rather than gained anything from Gen 7, Head Smash just actually hits more often now. Feel free to question or bring up points as you will.
 
252 Atk Tapu Koko Wild Charge (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 520-613 (73.8 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-2 252 Atk Tapu Koko Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 135-159 (19.1 - 22.5%) -- possible 5HKO

This is physically biased electrium-z vs the average chansey spread
The rolls round out to somewhere between a 50% and 60% chance of 2hko-ing, putting the odds in the favor of Tapu Koko towards 2hko-ing one of the generally bulkiest pokemon in existence >~> Not to mention it packs Taunt, so this threat basically just ruins stall And that's without even mentioning the other viable Choice sets that could exist on this thing. Otherwise it's basically just a 50/50 between whether Chansey uses Charm turn 1 or Counter, or if it gets smacked down completely by Taunt. We may have to look into suspecting Tapu Koko as a whole. Though that seems like it should be OU's problem before it becomes ours

Gyarados vs. Crustle seems to be left completely up to EV battles, with Waterfall being a chanced KO vs no bulk as well as +1 Z-Rock Wrecker being a chanced KO vs 192/76 bulk Gyarados (The most common bulky Gyarados spread according to TIBot). Seeing as how Gyarados is supposed to be the go-to "counter" for Crustle, this seems like a problem. So, other than Gyarados (Which is still questionable at that.), the only generally viable Pokemon as in, NOT niche stuff like Hippowdon or something that can threaten Crustle are Aegislash, Chansey (do people still even use this anymore), Metagross, Slowbro, and Rhyperior (is this still viable? I tried it and it seems kinda eh now) though I'm just judging off of what I can see from skimming over every Pokemon in the teambuilder. I will gladly admit when I'm wrong, and I was definitely wrong to undersell this giant piece of mud lasagna. With Mawile and Aggron gone, there is so little that actually counters it without having to prepare for it in some form, regardless of item.

Since we're discussing bans I'll leave Donphan out of it, since it has only lost threats rather than gained anything from Gen 7, Head Smash just actually hits more often now. Feel free to question or bring up points as you will.
Tapu Koko, Gyarados-Mega, and Crustle are meta defining threats this generation, and I think each should/could be suspected, but I'm curious as to others opinions.

/me thumbs up
 
252 Atk Tapu Koko Wild Charge (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 520-613 (73.8 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-2 252 Atk Tapu Koko Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 135-159 (19.1 - 22.5%) -- possible 5HKO

This is physically biased electrium-z vs the average chansey spread
The rolls round out to somewhere between a 50% and 60% chance of 2hko-ing, putting the odds in the favor of Tapu Koko towards 2hko-ing one of the generally bulkiest pokemon in existence >~> Not to mention it packs Taunt, so this threat basically just ruins stall And that's without even mentioning the other viable Choice sets that could exist on this thing. Otherwise it's basically just a 50/50 between whether Chansey uses Charm turn 1 or Counter, or if it gets smacked down completely by Taunt. We may have to look into suspecting Tapu Koko as a whole. Though that seems like it should be OU's problem before it becomes ours

Gyarados vs. Crustle seems to be left completely up to EV battles, with Waterfall being a chanced KO vs no bulk as well as +1 Z-Rock Wrecker being a chanced KO vs 192/76 bulk Gyarados (The most common bulky Gyarados spread according to TIBot). Seeing as how Gyarados is supposed to be the go-to "counter" for Crustle, this seems like a problem. So, other than Gyarados (Which is still questionable at that.), the only generally viable Pokemon as in, NOT niche stuff like Hippowdon or something that can threaten Crustle are Aegislash, Chansey (do people still even use this anymore), Metagross, Slowbro, and Rhyperior (is this still viable? I tried it and it seems kinda eh now) though I'm just judging off of what I can see from skimming over every Pokemon in the teambuilder. I will gladly admit when I'm wrong, and I was definitely wrong to undersell this giant piece of mud lasagna. With Mawile and Aggron gone, there is so little that actually counters it without having to prepare for it in some form, regardless of item.

Since we're discussing bans I'll leave Donphan out of it, since it has only lost threats rather than gained anything from Gen 7, Head Smash just actually hits more often now. Feel free to question or bring up points as you will.
Does Counter/Mirror Coat even work against Z-Moves? I've used a special Psychic Z-Move against an Avalugg that used Mirror Coat and it failed.
 
Gyarados vs. Crustle seems to be left completely up to EV battles
If you want to always beat Crustle, run Taunt.

Does Counter/Mirror Coat even work against Z-Moves? I've used a special Psychic Z-Move against an Avalugg that used Mirror Coat and it failed.
They're bugged. As I understand it, Counter always works against Z-moves, no matter what damage type the move actually is. Mirror Coat will always fail.

the only generally viable Pokemon as in, NOT niche stuff like Hippowdon or something that can threaten Crustle are Aegislash, Chansey (do people still even use this anymore), Metagross, Slowbro, and Rhyperior (is this still viable? I tried it and it seems kinda eh now) though I'm just judging off of what I can see from skimming over every Pokemon in the teambuilder.
Aegislash, Deoxys-Defense, Deoxys-Speed, Celesteela, Magearna, Magnezone, Mega-Metagross, Ferrothorn, Landorus-Therian, Heatran, Jirachi, Manaphy, Mega-Venusaur, Conkeldurr, Dragonite, Rampardos, Salazzle, Sableye, Mega-Scizor, Mega-Slowbro, Smeargle, Togedemaru, Togekiss, Umbreon, Whimsicott, Mega-Blastoise, Hitmonlee, Donphan, Golem, Infernape, Jumpluff, Keldeo, Sawk, Kyurem-Black (Z-Freeze Shock), Chansey, FEAR.

Obviously, they aren't all 100% wins, and depend on the moves Crustle has, and they're not all "generally viable", but I think you can fit at least one of these mons on your team.

252 Atk Tapu Koko Wild Charge (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 520-613 (73.8 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-2 252 Atk Tapu Koko Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 135-159 (19.1 - 22.5%) -- possible 5HKO

This is physically biased electrium-z vs the average chansey spread
You forgot Soft-Boiled, bro. You would lose if you tried to just Z-move Chansey. Tapu Koko beats Chansey by using Charge or Taunt.

I agree and disagree. You made good points, but at the same time, Gyarados-Mega doesn't really NEED any more moves. It's current movesets are just that versatile. Taunt, DDanced Waterfall/Outrage, and its other moves simply beat all they need to already. Its true that the meta has led it to be powerful, but its really close to the border of too powerful for the current meta with all its raw power.
I agree with my boi Iv1. Mega-Gyarados can beat a greater variety of pokemon by changing two moves than Kyurem-Black can beat with 7 different sets.


I'll drop a full team for you guys this time. I got rank 2 with this team.


Once my homie Ravonne told me he used a Metagross that beat Gyarados last gen, I immediately wanted to make a team that looked like it got 3-0ed by Gyarados, then pick Metagross every time to counter. I picked two mons that 100% lose to Gyarados that I thought were good and worked well with Metagross. It worked really well when everyone thought Metagross lost to Gyarados. It's less good now that people know about defensive Metagross.

Aegislash @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Stance Change
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 1 Spe
- King's Shield
- Shadow Ball
- Shadow Sneak
- Flash Cannon

Z-Shadow Ball lets Aegislash beat stuff like Mega-Pinsir, and Mega-Blastoise, which it couldn't beat before. The 1 EV in Special Defense is to make Genesect get +1 Attack. The 1 IV in Speed is to outspeed other Aegislash.


Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Atk / 60 Def / 68 Spe
Impish Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Meteor Mash
- Thunder Punch
- Earthquake

The Gyarados counter. This set is designed to beat Mega-Gyarados. Essentially, you outspeed them if they don't Dragon Dance and 2HKO them and if they do Dragon Dance, you live the +1 Crunch and still KO back. If they're defensive and you don't get the roll, Bullet Punch will finish the job. The speed EVs allow you to outspeed any Adamant Gyarados. If they're Jolly, well, good for them. They'll still DD and fail to KO you the first time you face them on the ladder.


Donphan @ Rockium Z
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 19 Spe
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
- Counter
- Ice Shard

The Charizard counter. Underspeeds Aegislash. Counter lets it beat Kartana, other Donphan, etc. This only has a 37.5% chance of being KO'd by a Scarf Kyurem-Black.

4 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Donphan: 344-408 (89.5 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

Things that give this team trouble:
Mega-Gyarados + 2 pokemon that beat Metagross. Prediction gets very difficult.
Charizard with Substitute. Requires you to hit 3 Head Smashes in a row.
Chansey.
Umbreon.
Mimikyu.
Mudsdale destroys this team.
Primarina also 3-0s.
FEAR pokemon.
This team has basically no room for utility moves like Taunt and Substitute. Or really any different coverage moves.
Pokemon that can boost their defenses and don't lose to Aegislash.
I'm sure other things beat this team that I'm not thinking of right now.
 
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lost heros

Meme Master
is a Pre-Contributor
It's not just usage. Mimikyu got more overall usage than Gyarados-Mega. It simply is that good, or almost so, and there's no denying it.
*TIBot: Mimikyu - #1 in 1v1 | Usage: 11.57611% | Raw count: 24,274 | Weight: 0.692571900992
*TIBot: Gyarados-Mega - #2 in 1v1 | Usage: 9.63889% | Raw count: 16,359 | Weight: 0.911256582248

However, if you do .usage1760, Mimikyu has less higher ladder usage. This really just means good players use Gyarados-Mega more because it's winning them enough games to stay that high.
*TIBot: Mimikyu - #2 in 1v1 | Usage: 13.28407% | Raw count: 24,274 | Weight: 0.00901344080977
*TIBot: Gyarados-Mega - #1 in 1v1 | Usage: 25.43561% | Raw count: 16,359 | Weight: 0.0214271976892


I agree and disagree. You made good points, but at the same time, Gyarados-Mega doesn't really NEED any more moves. It's current movesets are just that versatile. Taunt, DDanced Waterfall/Outrage, and its other moves simply beat all they need to already. Its true that the meta has led it to be powerful, but its really close to the border of too powerful for the current meta with all its raw power.
Referencing usage in a month-old meta is honestly hilarious. Also MGyara's usage at 1760 is barely 25%, which is pretty small for a meta dominant threat.

It's not that MGyara wants other moves, it's that he wants to use the moves he has. I've beat Mega Gyarados's with Deoxys-D cause Gyarados didn't carry Taunt and Crunch. And if it doesn't carry earthquake it has trouble against steel types. Without Outrage CharX becomes more difficult. Mega Gyarados is very good and I don't mean to downplay that, but this isn't a case of versatility. This Mega Gyarados having a bad case of 4MSS. Mega Gyarados excels at flushing out a team and tackling a large amount of threats very effictively.

252 Atk Tapu Koko Wild Charge (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 520-613 (73.8 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-2 252 Atk Tapu Koko Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 135-159 (19.1 - 22.5%) -- possible 5HKO

This is physically biased electrium-z vs the average chansey spread
The rolls round out to somewhere between a 50% and 60% chance of 2hko-ing, putting the odds in the favor of Tapu Koko towards 2hko-ing one of the generally bulkiest pokemon in existence
Lol nah. This is the ideal situation for a physical Tapu Koko. Chansey would prefer using soft boiled on the Z-move and then charm so there's no roll involved in Chansey's deserved victory.
>~> Not to mention it packs Taunt, so this threat basically just ruins stall And that's without even mentioning the other viable Choice sets that could exist on this thing.
I have to agree here. Taunt on Tapu Koko is very underutilized and way better than even Dazzling Gleam in beating other things.
Otherwise it's basically just a 50/50 between whether Chansey uses Charm turn 1 or Counter, or if it gets smacked down completely by Taunt. We may have to look into suspecting Tapu Koko as a whole. Though that seems like it should be OU's problem before it becomes ours

Gyarados vs. Crustle seems to be left completely up to EV battles, with Waterfall being a chanced KO vs no bulk as well as +1 Z-Rock Wrecker being a chanced KO vs 192/76 bulk Gyarados (The most common bulky Gyarados spread according to TIBot). Seeing as how Gyarados is supposed to be the go-to "counter" for Crustle, this seems like a problem. So, other than Gyarados (Which is still questionable at that.), the only generally viable Pokemon as in, NOT niche stuff like Hippowdon or something that can threaten Crustle are Aegislash, Chansey (do people still even use this anymore), Metagross, Slowbro, and Rhyperior (is this still viable? I tried it and it seems kinda eh now) though I'm just judging off of what I can see from skimming over every Pokemon in the teambuilder. I will gladly admit when I'm wrong, and I was definitely wrong to undersell this giant piece of mud lasagna. With Mawile and Aggron gone, there is so little that actually counters it without having to prepare for it in some form, regardless of item.
Resisting urge to say Umbreo and Alolan Persian. Most steel types I'd rely on beating Crustle also faster sturdy users. Mimikyu(? Not sure and don't care enough to do calcs).
 


Gumshoos @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Last Resort
- Yawn
- Protect

This is something I have been experimenting with for a while, actually much better than I expected. Pretty easy, just set up Yawn, protect to kill a turn, then last resort. EV's let it speed creep other things in it's speed tier. Life orb could be replaced by silk scarf or a scope lens if you feel cheeky, or a white herb if you want to counter Intimidate mons.
EDIT: Oh yeah, Normalium Z is a thing... yeah you could use that too

Weaknesses:
Abilities preventing/reducing sleep time (Insomnia, shed skin, early bird) but nothing runs those so it's not a big problem.
Being really freaking slow.
Bulky walls that resist normal (Not extremely common, but having a special-fighting on your team to scare them away is a great help)
Taunters that outspeed
Anything that one shots it (unfortunately Gumshoos is really frail, so you would be lucky to live many hits with more than 20% health for LO)
Ghost types (... yeah...)

Basically, this thing is countered by half the meta, but absolutely shreds the other half. Complimented by Alakazam and a dark type of your choosing (personally I like using Scarfed Intimidate Krookodile or Mega Gyrados)

(So this is kinda my first legitimate post so so feedback on how I could improve my posts would be greatly appreciated :))
 


Gumshoos @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Last Resort
- Yawn
- Protect

This is something I have been experimenting with for a while, actually much better than I expected. Pretty easy, just set up Yawn, protect to kill a turn, then last resort. EV's let it speed creep other things in it's speed tier. Life orb could be replaced by silk scarf or a scope lens if you feel cheeky, or a white herb if you want to counter Intimidate mons.
EDIT: Oh yeah, Normalium Z is a thing... yeah you could use that too

Weaknesses:
Abilities preventing/reducing sleep time (Insomnia, shed skin, early bird) but nothing runs those so it's not a big problem.
Being really freaking slow.
Bulky walls that resist normal (Not extremely common, but having a special-fighting on your team to scare them away is a great help)
Taunters that outspeed
Anything that one shots it (unfortunately Gumshoos is really frail, so you would be lucky to live many hits with more than 20% health for LO)
Ghost types (... yeah...)

Basically, this thing is countered by half the meta, but absolutely shreds the other half. Complimented by Alakazam and a dark type of your choosing (personally I like using Scarfed Intimidate Krookodile or Mega Gyrados)

(So this is kinda my first legitimate post so so feedback on how I could improve my posts would be greatly appreciated :))
Awesome post, and welcome to 1v1! I must just have to try that Gumshoos set. Personally, I'm a big fan of Yawn Protect ;)
 

Nalei

out!
is a Pre-Contributor
Been having fun with Icium Z Kyurem so I thought I'd post my set here:
Kyurem-Black @ Icium Z
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 192 HP / 88 Atk / 20 SpD / 208 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Substitute/Earth Power
- Hone Claws
- Freeze Shock
Substitute+Hone Claws to beat blobs. Subzero Slammer hits about as hard as a banded Outrage.
 
Hi all ,
I am suprised that no one talked about Magnezone here .

Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hyper Beam
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Yes , this set isn't awesome but it does its job pretty well . Thunderbolt and Flash Canon are the strong stabs , Hyper Beam can 0HKO frail mons (like Tapu Koko) and Hidden Power is for Garchomp , Landorus , and all the weak-to-ice mons.
 

Nalei

out!
is a Pre-Contributor


Gumshoos @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Last Resort
- Yawn
- Protect

This is something I have been experimenting with for a while, actually much better than I expected. Pretty easy, just set up Yawn, protect to kill a turn, then last resort. EV's let it speed creep other things in it's speed tier. Life orb could be replaced by silk scarf or a scope lens if you feel cheeky, or a white herb if you want to counter Intimidate mons.
EDIT: Oh yeah, Normalium Z is a thing... yeah you could use that too

Weaknesses:
Abilities preventing/reducing sleep time (Insomnia, shed skin, early bird) but nothing runs those so it's not a big problem.
Being really freaking slow.
Bulky walls that resist normal (Not extremely common, but having a special-fighting on your team to scare them away is a great help)
Taunters that outspeed
Anything that one shots it (unfortunately Gumshoos is really frail, so you would be lucky to live many hits with more than 20% health for LO)
Ghost types (... yeah...)

Basically, this thing is countered by half the meta, but absolutely shreds the other half. Complimented by Alakazam and a dark type of your choosing (personally I like using Scarfed Intimidate Krookodile or Mega Gyrados)

(So this is kinda my first legitimate post so so feedback on how I could improve my posts would be greatly appreciated :))
Gumshoos looks neat, but to be honest, banded Giga Impact seems like the superior set for it as it does significantly more damage and can run other coverage moves like Crunch and Earthquake to hit ghosts, steels and rocks. Gumshoos doesn't learn Giga Impact. WTF, Gamfreak?!
 
Here's a weird one

Kyurem @ Haban Berry
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 SpA / 196 SpD / 60 Spe
Modest Nature
Ivs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Earth Power
Ice Beam OHKOs mons like Donphan and most of the dragons. Draco Meteor OHKOs Charizard X/ Sturdy-Z mons/Dragons including itself. HP Fire OHKOs Genesect and 2HKOs Ferrothorn. Earth Power OHKOs Tapu Koko, Non-Air Balloon Heatran and Magnezone. 196 SpD are to wall Non-Modest Specs Genesect Flash Cannon and Scarf Porygon-Z Hyper Beam. 60 Spe are to outspeed Specs Magnezone. Haban Berry allows Kyurem to wall Dragon moves from Scarfed Dragons that used to outspeed him.
 

Nalei

out!
is a Pre-Contributor
Recently peaked the ladder so I thought I'd share my team:

Barbaracle @ Rockium Z
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 116 HP / 208 Atk / 184 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Superpower
- Stone Edge
- Razor Shell/Dual Chop
I was looking for some dank mons to try out and found this. It beats all variants of Charizard X, Mega Gyarados and Porygon-Z as well as scarf Kyurem and (obviously) others. The speed outspeeds +1 jolly Gyarados after a Shell Smash and OHKOs max HP variants with a +1 Superpower.

Genesect @ Choice Specs
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Bug Buzz
- Flamethrower
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt
Bulky specs Genesect is one of my personal favorites. Its capable of sponging hits surprisingly well and can take on a lot of top tier threats like Mega Metagross and Mimikyu with its coverage moves.

Dragonite @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 236 HP / 116 Atk / 156 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fire Punch
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
This custom Dragonite set wraps up the team nicely, being able to take on pokemon like Greninja, Crustle, Aegislash, Charizard Y and Tapu Koko. 236 HP lives Crustle's Continental Crush and the SpD lives a specs Greninja Ice Beam. The rest of the EVs are poured into attack.

Barbara (Barbaracle) (F) @ Rockium Z
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 116 HP / 208 Atk / 184 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Superpower
- Stone Edge
- Razor Shell

Buge (Genesect) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Bug Buzz
- Flamethrower
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt

Gaynite (Dragonite) @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 236 HP / 116 Atk / 156 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fire Punch
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
 
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DEG

peace
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Hey guys, after checking out battles and hearing opinions and discussions I want to bring the topic up on this thread, what do you all think of Mega Gyarados? Ever since Gen VII 1v1 started Mega Gyarados has been a thriving force in the metagame taking on a plethora of Pokemon and forcing people to have a check otherwise they will just lose. Mega Gyarados is a versatile Pokemon that can run different sets putting him above other Pokemon. Its typing was given to him on a gold platter allowing it to keep in checks the best types in the 1v1 metagame in Fire-, Psychic-, Ground-, and, to an extent Steel-types Pokemon. Please discuss Mega Gyarados and how it performs in today's metagame. Please do not make any "Ban Arguments" without referring to the banning philosophy. Happy discussion!
 

charizard8888

Catch The Wave
is a Pre-Contributor

Mega Gyarados
Abilities analysis: Intimidate lowers the target's attack allowing it to take physical hits and Mold Breaker allows it to get past Sturdy, Multiscale, Unaware, Fluffy.
Mega Evolution: The type changing upon Mega evolution changes its weaknesses which is quite useful. Gyarados loses its Ground immunity, rock weakness and 4x weakness to electric turns 2x upon mega evolving and gains Psychic and Prankster immunity.
Stats: 155 Atk lets it knockout a lot of pokemon effortlessly without any boosts, 109 Def + Intimidate combo and 130 SpD lets it take multiple hits.
Moves: Mega Gyarados has a pretty awesome movepool giving it coverage, stats boost and other status moves.
  • Dragon Dance: Provided with nice bulk it allows it to set up, Raises Attack and Speed by 1 stage.
  • Waterfall: 80 Base Power water type move for STAB output.
  • Outrage: To KO Dragon types and pokemon which resist it's other moves.
  • Earthquake: For coverage, SE against Electric, Poison, Steel (to beat Magnezone)
  • Substitute: Prevents from status moves and helps in scouting.
  • Taunt: Prevents the target to set up/use any status move.
  • Crunch: 80 Base Power dark type STAB.

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Waterfall

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Waterfall

Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake/Crunch
- Outrage
- Waterfall
Other Option: 140 EVs investment in Def lets it survive 2 Fusion Bolt from Kyurem-Black after intimidate

Common Pokemon it defeats most of the time
Mega Charizard X, Mega Charizard Y, Kyurem-Black, Greninja, Mega Metagross, All Sturdy and Lv1 Pokemon (Crustle 50/50), Deoxys-Defense, Dragonite, Mega Garchomp, Mimikyu, Aegislash, Jirachi (if it doesn't flinches 7 times lol), Magnezone, Landorus, Nihilego, Necrozma, Victini, Heatran, Keldeo, Mew, Pheromosa, Mega Sableye, Xurkitree.


Common Pokemon/Pokemon sets it loses to:
Mega Pinsir, Porygon-Z, Tapu Lele, Tapu Koko, Tapu Bulu, Mega Venusaur, Chansey, Primarina, Whimsiscott (despite Prankster immunity gets 3HKOed by uninvested SpA Moonblast)


Kyurem-Black @ Haban Berry
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Outrage
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Fusion Bolt

Kyurem @ Haban Berry
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 SpA / 196 SpD / 60 Spe
Modest Nature
Ivs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Earth Power

Refuerzo 's Haban Berry Kyurem-Black set catches Mega Gyarados by surprise
252 Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Haban Berry Kyurem-Black: 149-176 (38.1 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados-Mega: 177-208 (53.4 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Kyurem-Black @ Choice Band
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Outrage
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Fusion Bolt

This one is not that common



Porygon-Z @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 240 Def / 172 SpA / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Beam
- Uproar
- Shadow Ball
- Trick

Porygon-Z @ Normalium Z
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Conversion
- Hyper Beam
- Ice Beam

Porygon-Z @ Electrium Z
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 48 HP / 180 Def / 248 SpA / 32 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Beam
- Uproar
- Thunder
- Nasty Plot



Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Will-O-Wisp
- Outrage
- Flare Blitz


50/50
Crustle (Gyarados wins the match if running taunt), Max Def and HP Magearna, Meloetta, Mega Blastoise, Bewear, Genesect


With monstrous stats, set of abilities and typing along with the departing of several megas in Gen 7 and its Dark typing being immune to Prankster, Mega Gyarados emerges out as a huge threat in the metagame which has to be considered while teambuilding.

PS: My first post in 1v1! Feel free to tell me how can I improve Thanks!
Edit: Cancelled the Kyub sets that dont beat Gyarados and added Unaware, Mega Pinsir beats Gyarados, EQ for KOing Magnezone, Crustle Taunt info. Sorry for the mistakes, will be using the damage calculator more often from now. Thanks for helping!
 
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