Metagame 1v1 Metagame Discussion

[ryyjyywyy]

You actually don’t need to run ALL counters to all viable mons, because frankly that’s impossible. Role compression works too. And you’re not actually walled by ‘mons you don’t counter, because they may check the mons giving you trouble. Infernape wins most of the time against Magnezone but some exceptional cases means it only checks Magnezone, not counter. Before Koko was banned, Koko countered/checked all of GyaraM, Mimik and Zard X/Y.
Also, please explain the flaw in my argument. I have my own reasoning for what I said.

saying "you need to run an answer to sleep" is a dumb reason to ban something. You have to run a counter to anything anyone uses or you loses to it

 

[TheAuraUser]

saying "you need to run an answer to sleep" is a dumb reason to ban something. You have to run a counter to anything anyone uses or you loses to it

That is not my reason for banning sleep. All I’m saying is you need an answer to sleep. My reason is “Sleep is uncompetitive” but like I stated before, I won’t argue about the uncompetitiveness of Sleep as I’m not qualified to answer it. It is just my opinion.

 

[ryyjyywyy]

That is not my reason for banning sleep. All I’m saying is you need an answer to sleep. My reason is “Sleep is uncompetitive” but like I stated before, I won’t argue about the uncompetitiveness of Sleep as I’m not qualified to answer it. It is just my opinion.

if you wont argue uncompetitiveness cus you dont know enough about it to argue it, why do you think you know enough about it to want it banned?

 

[Tol]

thought I might try to interrupt this sleep talk with a cool team that got me to 1800 on a couple of alts
without further ado, here is UNTITLED 346

Eileen (Meloetta) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Def / 52 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Beam
- Calm Mind
- Uproar
- Psyshock / Knock Off / Shadow Ball / Quick Attack / Return / Dazzling Gleam
Full credit goes to UBERLandon21 for this (genderless)girl, she's my resident sleepbeater and special wall, along with being my secondary physical wall. After kokoban, there isn't much that can break through her defenses without a type advantage. Probably the dark horse of the meta right now.

Asbestos (Swampert-Mega) @ Swampertite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 68 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch / Waterfall / Theoretically Ice Beam (untested)
- Yawn
- Protect
A yawnpert set of my own concoction, the physical defense was originally for KyuB, but it works well for taking anything not a grass move physically. Specially, the only things it dies to are Tapu Lele and grass moves. It tanks such shots as Gardevoir-M hyper beam easily. Basically, if something doesn't have a grass move and you 2HKO it, you win. This is most things in the meta, as it turns out.

I Burn (Charizard-Mega-Y) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 108 Def / 148 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA
- Air Slash
- Blast Burn
- Hidden Power [Electric] / Flame Charge
- Solar Beam
Now we have the original impetus for the team, Charizard Y. After Koko Ban it's become, in my opinion, slightly the better Charizard. This particular set beats Gyarados while still being the nuke we all know and love.

Importable:
​

The Squad

I Burn (Charizard-Mega-Y) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 108 Def / 148 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA
- Air Slash
- Blast Burn
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Solar Beam



Asbestos (Swampert-Mega) @ Swampertite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 68 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Yawn
- Protect



Eileen (Meloetta) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Def / 52 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Beam
- Calm Mind
- Uproar
- Psyshock

Also RIP in peace the 2 mon god squad, first team to ever get me to 1700

The sand shall dance no more

Sand-Dancer (Garchomp-Mega) (M) @ Garchompite
Ability: Rough Skin
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 143
EVs: 228 HP / 28 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Surf
- Swords Dance

Sale (Tapu Koko) @ Electrium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
Happiness: 228
EVs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wild Charge
- Iron Defense
- Charge
- Roost

​

 

[Mageic Master]

thought I might try to interrupt this sleep talk with a cool team that got me to 1800 on a couple of alts
without further ado, here is UNTITLED 346

Eileen (Meloetta) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Def / 52 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Beam
- Calm Mind
- Uproar
- Psyshock / Knock Off / Shadow Ball / Quick Attack / Return
Full credit goes to UBERLandon21 for this (genderless)girl, she's my resident sleepbeater and special wall, along with being my secondary physical wall. After kokoban, there isn't much that can break through her defenses without a type advantage. Probably the dark horse of the meta right now.

Asbestos (Swampert-Mega) @ Swampertite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 68 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch / Waterfall / Theoretically Ice Beam (untested)
- Yawn
- Protect
A yawnpert set of my own concoction, the physical defense was originally for KyuB, but it works well for taking anything not a grass move physically. Specially, the only things it dies to are Tapu Lele and grass moves. It tanks such shots as Gardevoir-M hyper beam easily. Basically, if something doesn't have a grass move and you 2HKO it, you win. This is most things in the meta, as it turns out.

I Burn (Charizard-Mega-Y) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 108 Def / 148 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA
- Air Slash
- Blast Burn
- Hidden Power [Electric] / Flame Charge
- Solar Beam
Now we have the original impetus for the team, Charizard Y. After Koko Ban it's become, in my opinion, slightly the better Charizard. This particular set beats Gyarados while still being the nuke we all know and love.

Importable:
​

The Squad

I Burn (Charizard-Mega-Y) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 108 Def / 148 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA
- Air Slash
- Blast Burn
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Solar Beam



Asbestos (Swampert-Mega) @ Swampertite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 68 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Yawn
- Protect



Eileen (Meloetta) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Def / 52 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Beam
- Calm Mind
- Uproar
- Psyshock

Also RIP in peace the 2 mon god squad

The sand shall dance no more

Sand-Dancer (Garchomp-Mega) (M) @ Garchompite
Ability: Rough Skin
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 143
EVs: 228 HP / 28 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Surf
- Swords Dance

Sale (Tapu Koko) @ Electrium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
Happiness: 228
EVs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wild Charge
- Iron Defense
- Charge
- Roost

​

Pretty good team, maybe weak to Spd kommo-o, but that's all I can find

 

[Felucia]

Pretty good team, maybe weak to Spd kommo-o, but that's all I can find

If that's what you're worried about, why not add Dazzling Gleam to the optional moves on Meloetta :]

 

[Tol]

If that's what you're worried about, why not add Dazzling Gleam to the optional moves on Meloetta :]

I think I will, psyshock has generally been enough tho. CM/psyshock usually wins. Also, for those side moves I just put the things I actually ended up using (Knock Off is a surprisingly good tech). However, I can see the time when I might need dazzling gleam, so I’m adding it.

 

[Nalei]

thought I might try to interrupt this sleep talk with a cool team that got me to 1800 on a couple of alts
without further ado, here is UNTITLED 346

Eileen (Meloetta) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Def / 52 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Beam
- Calm Mind
- Uproar
- Psyshock / Knock Off / Shadow Ball / Quick Attack / Return / Dazzling Gleam
Full credit goes to UBERLandon21 for this (genderless)girl, she's my resident sleepbeater and special wall, along with being my secondary physical wall. After kokoban, there isn't much that can break through her defenses without a type advantage. Probably the dark horse of the meta right now.

Asbestos (Swampert-Mega) @ Swampertite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 68 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch / Waterfall / Theoretically Ice Beam (untested)
- Yawn
- Protect
A yawnpert set of my own concoction, the physical defense was originally for KyuB, but it works well for taking anything not a grass move physically. Specially, the only things it dies to are Tapu Lele and grass moves. It tanks such shots as Gardevoir-M hyper beam easily. Basically, if something doesn't have a grass move and you 2HKO it, you win. This is most things in the meta, as it turns out.

I Burn (Charizard-Mega-Y) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 108 Def / 148 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA
- Air Slash
- Blast Burn
- Hidden Power [Electric] / Flame Charge
- Solar Beam
Now we have the original impetus for the team, Charizard Y. After Koko Ban it's become, in my opinion, slightly the better Charizard. This particular set beats Gyarados while still being the nuke we all know and love.

Importable:
​

The Squad

I Burn (Charizard-Mega-Y) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 108 Def / 148 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA
- Air Slash
- Blast Burn
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Solar Beam



Asbestos (Swampert-Mega) @ Swampertite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 68 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Yawn
- Protect



Eileen (Meloetta) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Def / 52 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Beam
- Calm Mind
- Uproar
- Psyshock

Also RIP in peace the 2 mon god squad, first team to ever get me to 1700

The sand shall dance no more

Sand-Dancer (Garchomp-Mega) (M) @ Garchompite
Ability: Rough Skin
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 143
EVs: 228 HP / 28 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Surf
- Swords Dance

Sale (Tapu Koko) @ Electrium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
Happiness: 228
EVs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wild Charge
- Iron Defense
- Charge
- Roost

​

So you don't necessarily lose to these mons, but you definitely can't beat them reliably - Gyarados and Charizard Y:
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Crunch vs. 0 HP / 108 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 264-312 (88.8 - 105%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
148+ SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Blast Burn vs. 204 HP / 0 SpD Meloetta in Sun: 357-420 (91 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
You also mentioned your Swampert spread being outdated from the KyuB era. Also, Ice Beam is the best slot there, highly recommend. Anyways, I did the liberty of cooking you up some fresh EVs. Enjoy

Team 2.0

Meloetta @ Normalium Z
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Def / 88 SpA / 44 SpD / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Hyper Beam
- Uproar
- Psyshock



Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 168 HP / 176 Atk / 36 SpA / 128 SpD
Brave Nature
- Yawn
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam



Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 152 Def / 148 SpA / 208 Spe
Modest Nature
- Flame Charge
- Blast Burn
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Solar Beam

 

[Ginger Princess]

Just to clarify on a few things, the reason why I temporarily resigned was because I have A) A job that already eats up most of my time during the weekdays (also might get a second job, working on that), and B) I need to help my family move in to a new house, and C) Because of A and B, I haven't been able to go on showdown during the weekdays until 1 or 2 am my time, and then I'm only able to stay on for 15-30 minutes... yeah. It wouldn't feel right if I maintained that level of inactivity and still kept the title of driver.

That being said, a summer job only lasts during the summer, so I fully intend to return when the job ends and I go back to college. Also, I am still participating in OMPL, if its anything like 1v1 PL most of the battles will be on the weekend, which works for me.

 

[sonichero2001]

I have a very tiny problem with 1v1 and its z-moves
z-moves for me are very overpowerd in 1v1 because
z-mover are like OHkO moves they instqtliy kill any pokemon
because of their high base power and strong side effects
like raising stats to deacresing enemys stats and more
so I think z-moves should be banned from 1v1 and thats just my opinion
im not saying that everyone who use z-moves is a cheater who wants free win
im just here to have fun like all of you guys
but I think that z-moves are just overpowerd and I also have 3 1v1 teamsand the only times they lose its because of z moves

 

[DezShizzels]

What even is that Mimi on the front page?... But Lets be real suspect it, curikyu has developed too much and is getting worse right now. If we dont take IT out. What Will happin? Mimi being too good, disguise is Just all ban disguise, we are done!

 

[blondesasukeuchiha]

z-mover are like OHkO moves they instqtliy kill any pokemon
because of their high base power and strong side effects

This is also the case with many choice items, are they broken? Teams that are well made either have a way to tank or somehow counter these moves in some way.

like raising stats to deacresing enemys stats and more

Most Z moves in 1v1 don't boost stats (I said most, I know some do) charm, confide, ext.. would be just as good without Z-Moves, these moves promote diversity in team building

but I think that z-moves are just overpowerd and I also have 3 1v1 teamsand the only times they lose its because of z moves

If your teams are losing to Z-Moves its because they are not built well. Saying I lose to a powerful move is like me saying ban Gyara and both Zards because my teams lose to them and that's not fair. I understand building a good, well rounded team is difficult but that doesn't mean we should ban the moves because you can't find a way to build for them.

What even is that Mimi on the front page?... But Lets be real suspect it, curikyu has developed too much and is getting worse right now. If we dont take IT out. What Will happin? Mimi being too good, disguise is Just all ban disguise, we are done!

Banning disguise would be banning mimi since its the only ability it gets and also the only pokemon with it

 

[lancert]

Hello everyone,

I come to wear an improvement in our favorite metagame.

I would like a mons released : Mega-Salamence.
Don't worry this mons is like some mons that can mega evolve, so very strong, like Mega-Gyara or Zard X.
Why I would like to deliver Salamence because this mons has very good stats, and one of the best mega evolutions, which is very important to be able to be offensive or defensive. It can be played in different ways such as offensive, it will be played special with his new talent aerilate with ultr powerful movements such as hyper beam, fire blast or with dragon dance obviously and with a sequence of attack phisiques that will follow. In defensive mode, it has like Iron Defense, Confide, Roost ... This Pokémon could counter the sleep, which became one of the big problems in this meta. It will then be faster by being mega evolved than Jumpluff which is used most often for sleep. He could then have very good combinations with any top tier mons.
He can learn interesting movements like Laser Focus, Confide, Refresh, Iron Defense ...

So my compatriots 1v1, support me for unban this formidable mons, I will like to have this mons in our beloved meta and it's one of my favorite mons. I'm counting on you my friends ! :)

 

[pazza]

Hello everyone,

View attachment 122660
I come to wear an improvement in our favorite metagame.

I would like a mons released : Mega-Salamence.
Don't worry this mons is like some mons that can mega evolve, so very strong, like Mega-Gyara or Zard X.
Why I would like to deliver Salamence because this mons has very good stats, and one of the best mega evolutions, which is very important to be able to be offensive or defensive. It can be played in different ways such as offensive, it will be played special with his new talent aerilate with ultr powerful movements such as hyper beam, fire blast or with dragon dance obviously and with a sequence of attack phisiques that will follow. In defensive mode, it has like Iron Defense, Confide, Roost ... This Pokémon could counter the sleep, which became one of the big problems in this meta. It will then be faster by being mega evolved than Jumpluff which is used most often for sleep. He could then have very good combinations with any top tier mons.
He can learn interesting movements like Laser Focus, Confide, Refresh, Iron Defense ...

So my compatriots 1v1, support me for unban this formidable mons, I will like to have this mons in our beloved meta and it's one of my favorite mons. I'm counting on you my friends ! :)

so your saying every team should run that mon to counter sleep?

also I don't think we can unban that mon just because it counters sleep , just like we didn't unban zekrom because it counters zyg
Every reason you gave is pretty much to show WHY its banned

 

[lancert]

so your saying every team should run that mon to counter sleep?

also I don't think we can unban that mon just because it counters sleep , just like we didn't unban zekrom because it counters zyg
Every reason you gave is pretty much to show WHY its banned

No, no and no you understand nothing, you are not the only one I reassure you. Megamence is an EXAMPLE* of mons that can counter the sleep, and not that the sleep. Exactly some do not see this potential of this pokemon, put aside the fact that you compare it at kyub

 

[Yung Dramps]

Dude, all we're asking is for you to prove to us that Megamence isn't completely busted, which it seems to be judging by its stats, ability, pre-mega ability, movepool and so much more. Your justification for unbanning seems to come down to "kill sleep" and "i like Megamence", both of which are abhorrent justifications. I mean, I never found an issue with sleep, but god fucking damn, if some guy can just swoop in and say "let's put sleep in check by unbanning this blatantly broken mon which I have not proved sufficient counterplay or justification besides sleep for" and have people ACTUALLY AGREE WITH HIM, maybe we should just ban sleep and get it overwith.

 

[jrm115]

Hello everyone,

View attachment 122660
I come to wear an improvement in our favorite metagame.

I would like a mons released : Mega-Salamence.
Don't worry this mons is like some mons that can mega evolve, so very strong, like Mega-Gyara or Zard X.
Why I would like to deliver Salamence because this mons has very good stats, and one of the best mega evolutions, which is very important to be able to be offensive or defensive. It can be played in different ways such as offensive, it will be played special with his new talent aerilate with ultr powerful movements such as hyper beam, fire blast or with dragon dance obviously and with a sequence of attack phisiques that will follow. In defensive mode, it has like Iron Defense, Confide, Roost ... This Pokémon could counter the sleep, which became one of the big problems in this meta. It will then be faster by being mega evolved than Jumpluff which is used most often for sleep. He could then have very good combinations with any top tier mons.
He can learn interesting movements like Laser Focus, Confide, Refresh, Iron Defense ...

So my compatriots 1v1, support me for unban this formidable mons, I will like to have this mons in our beloved meta and it's one of my favorite mons. I'm counting on you my friends ! :)

alright so it looks like the confusion here is about why mmence isnt already released. all your points about how it counters sleep, and can run multiple sets, "very strong, like Mega-Gyara or Zard X" are correct: mega salamence would be very good in 1v1.
the rub, of course, is that mega salamence would be very good in 1v1.
the reason that mmence is banned in 1v1 is that it is too good for 1v1. like most other ubers, mmence simply has too strong an arsenal to be allowed in 1v1. the mixups it could have in sets make it act like mega altaria or charizard on steroids. it gets all the defensive moves that altaria does, but it backs it up with much stronger stats all around, and the combination of very high raw stats, a functional movepool, and big mixups at team preview simply push megamence over the edge. the meta would shift around what mons specifically beat mmence, what mmence can do to beat those mons, what mons clean up all those mmence checks, etc. instead of the relatively varied meta that we have today.

 

[lancert]

alright so it looks like the confusion here is about why mmence isnt already released. all your points about how it counters sleep, and can run multiple sets, "very strong, like Mega-Gyara or Zard X" are correct: mega salamence would be very good in 1v1.
the rub, of course, is that mega salamence would be very good in 1v1.
the reason that mmence is banned in 1v1 is that it is too good for 1v1. like most other ubers, mmence simply has too strong an arsenal to be allowed in 1v1. the mixups it could have in sets make it act like mega altaria or charizard on steroids. it gets all the defensive moves that altaria does, but it backs it up with much stronger stats all around, and the combination of very high raw stats, a functional movepool, and big mixups at team preview simply push megamence over the edge. the meta would shift around what mons specifically beat mmence, what mmence can do to beat those mons, what mons clean up all those mmence checks, etc. instead of the relatively varied meta that we have today.

Finally I got an answer that suits me, you have very well understood what I wanted to say but a pity that megamence take the characteristics of the same monster as Uber... :(

 

[Feesh Squad]

Hello everyone,

View attachment 122660
I come to wear an improvement in our favorite metagame.

I would like a mons released : Mega-Salamence.
Don't worry this mons is like some mons that can mega evolve, so very strong, like Mega-Gyara or Zard X.
Why I would like to deliver Salamence because this mons has very good stats, and one of the best mega evolutions, which is very important to be able to be offensive or defensive. It can be played in different ways such as offensive, it will be played special with his new talent aerilate with ultr powerful movements such as hyper beam, fire blast or with dragon dance obviously and with a sequence of attack phisiques that will follow. In defensive mode, it has like Iron Defense, Confide, Roost ... This Pokémon could counter the sleep, which became one of the big problems in this meta. It will then be faster by being mega evolved than Jumpluff which is used most often for sleep. He could then have very good combinations with any top tier mons.
He can learn interesting movements like Laser Focus, Confide, Refresh, Iron Defense ...

So my compatriots 1v1, support me for unban this formidable mons, I will like to have this mons in our beloved meta and it's one of my favorite mons. I'm counting on you my friends ! :)

While Mega Mence may have taken a bit of a hit this gen with the nerf to -ate abilities and the increase in powerful Fairy-types, I strongly disagree with unbanning this mon. Mega Mence has everything it needs to thrive in a metagame such as this. It has great bulk bolstered by Intimidate on the physical side, dumb offensive capabilities, a good movepool, and it's really fast to boot. I have plenty of experience of what Mega Mence can do in a non-Ubers setting through Battle Spot Singles. Mega Mence's ev's can easily be changed to adapt to certain mons, such as running a specially bulky set to beat Tapu Lele or even sets to beat stall like SubToxic Mence. This thing is an absolute menace and should not be allowed in this metagame.

 

[Nalei]

I cooked up some Mega Mence sets for the sake of discussion

Hide

Dragon Dance (Salamence-Mega) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 64 HP / 200 Atk / 68 Def / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Giga Impact
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Iron Defense / Substitute

Roost+Draco (Salamence-Mega) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 224 HP / 156 Def / 80 SpA / 48 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Roost
- Hyper Voice
- Draco Meteor

Roost+Bulldoze (Salamence-Mega) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 244 HP / 104 Def / 16 SpA / 96 SpD / 48 Spe
Bold Nature
- Iron Defense
- Roost
- Hyper Voice
- Bulldoze

Hyper Beam (Salamence-Mega) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 56 HP / 24 Def / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Hyper Beam
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower

SpD (Salamence-Mega) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 12 Def / 248 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Iron Defense
- Roost
- Fire Blast
- Giga Impact

I think this thing is pretty broken. Some calcs for consideration:

252+ SpA Porygon-Z Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 248+ SpD Salamence-Mega: 344-408 (87.5 - 103.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Giga Impact vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 358-423 (115.1 - 136%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+6 252+ Atk Snorlax Double-Edge vs. +4 224 HP / 156+ Def Salamence-Mega: 163-193 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

-1 252+ Atk Mimikyu [LSF+Sneak] vs. 64 HP / 68 Def Salamence-Mega: 294-346 (84.7 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
200 Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Giga Impact vs. 240 HP / 96 Def Mimikyu: 331-390 (106.4 - 125.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I feel like the introduction of Mega Salamence would cause the metagame to warp unhealthily around it. Mons in general would start running obscure sets at a worryingly high usage to beat it, similarly to Koko, such as Lele running absurd amounts of bulk. It's counters are very, very limited and it honestly feels like a combination of Kyub and Koko.

 

[Freddy Kyogre]

gonna just say that mmence discussion should not be happening AT ALL for it being unbanned. Theres a reason we never unbanned it, even with kyub around, which could arguably have been its #1 counter. There is no point in discussing bringing back mmence while kyub is gone. no kyub = no mmence, much less any other ubers.

 

[Nalei]

gonna just say that mmence discussion should not be happening AT ALL for it being unbanned. Theres a reason we never unbanned it, even with kyub around, which could arguably have been its #1 counter. There is no point in discussing bringing back mmence while kyub is gone. no kyub = no mmence, much less any other ubers.

I agree that Mence is an absolute untouchable and that discussing it is bound to lead us to the conclusion that it should stay banned, but I think that it's an important discussion to be had, even if only briefly. There's a very surprising number of people who would like it unbanned.

 

[lancert]

I cooked up some Mega Mence sets for the sake of discussion

Hide

Dragon Dance (Salamence-Mega) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 64 HP / 200 Atk / 68 Def / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Giga Impact
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Iron Defense / Substitute

Roost+Draco (Salamence-Mega) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 224 HP / 156 Def / 80 SpA / 48 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Roost
- Hyper Voice
- Draco Meteor

Roost+Bulldoze (Salamence-Mega) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 244 HP / 104 Def / 16 SpA / 96 SpD / 48 Spe
Bold Nature
- Iron Defense
- Roost
- Hyper Voice
- Bulldoze

Hyper Beam (Salamence-Mega) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 56 HP / 24 Def / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Hyper Beam
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower

SpD (Salamence-Mega) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 12 Def / 248 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Iron Defense
- Roost
- Fire Blast
- Giga Impact

I think this thing is pretty broken. Some calcs for consideration:

252+ SpA Porygon-Z Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 248+ SpD Salamence-Mega: 344-408 (87.5 - 103.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Giga Impact vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 358-423 (115.1 - 136%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+6 252+ Atk Snorlax Double-Edge vs. +4 224 HP / 156+ Def Salamence-Mega: 163-193 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

-1 252+ Atk Mimikyu [LSF+Sneak] vs. 64 HP / 68 Def Salamence-Mega: 294-346 (84.7 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
200 Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Giga Impact vs. 240 HP / 96 Def Mimikyu: 331-390 (106.4 - 125.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I feel like the introduction of Mega Salamence would cause the metagame to warp unhealthily around it. Mons in general would start running obscure sets at a worryingly high usage to beat it, similarly to Koko, such as Lele running absurd amounts of bulk. It's counters are very, very limited and it honestly feels like a combination of Kyub and Koko.

On the one hand you are right, but on the other you are totally wrong, but I support more the thesis that you have wrong. Megamence yes it's mons ultra powerful in this meta, yes I agree that it is comparable to the same power as Kyub and Koko. On the other hand, it is not unbeatable. Monsters as powerful as he can defeat him, including Greninja, Nagadanel, Dragonite ... So he is also open to some mons. You see that his dark side, you do not see the potential that this mons can do. Since Koko and Kyub are banned, there is not really a real competition between the mons of this meta. He must nevertheless have a monster with whom we are certain to win. And Megamence is the perfect example. If you still disagree on my subject, it is because you have absolutely understood nothing of what I am getting at.

 

[Joker 1v1]

================================================================================================
Truant's Hidden Use in 1v1

[URL="http://pokemondb.net/pokedex/slaking"][/URL]

(Using Truant will affectingly 2x your PP, (Amnesia for ex. 64 PP instead of 32 PP,) meaning 240 Turns in total before you use Struggle)

Hide

Slaking @ Mental Herb
Ability: Truant
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Amnesia
- Encore
- Taunt
- Rest

This is my set I made a few weeks back one night when I was bored. I run Rest over Slack Off, for the overall 48 turns and full heal. Rather than the 50% and 16 turn use. Rest turns are also skipped with the, Truant, ability. It has access to physically defensive moves such as Bulk Up. As well as other moves like Substitute & Toxic. But I chose Taunt & Encore to help PP stall quicker and stop them from boosting or lowering stats.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-764481759​

 

[Nalei]

On the one hand you are right, but on the other you are totally wrong, but I support more the thesis that you have wrong. Megamence yes it's mons ultra powerful in this meta, yes I agree that it is comparable to the same power as Kyub and Koko. On the other hand, it is not unbeatable. Monsters as powerful as he can defeat him, including Greninja, Nagadanel, Dragonite ... So he is also open to some mons. You see that his dark side, you do not see the potential that this mons can do. Since Koko and Kyub are banned, there is not really a real competition between the mons of this meta. He must nevertheless have a monster with whom we are certain to win. And Megamence is the perfect example. If you still disagree on my subject, it is because you have absolutely understood nothing of what I am getting at.

What I'm failing to see is why it should be unbanned. Things that are banned, regardless of whether they are broken or not, should only be unbanned if they will improve the meta. In your posts, you've reiterated over and over that it's a very powerful Pokemon as though that's a reason that it should be unbanned. It's too powerful. This is a reason to keep it banned, not unban it. The only other reason you gave for unbanning it is because it "counters sleep," but there's some flaws in this logic: A) it assumes that sleep is a problem without explaining why and B) there are sleep users that beat it. I'd like to challenge anyone who wants Mega Salamence unbanned to step forwards and give some ways in which it would improve the meta.