Metagame 1v1 Metagame Discussion

[Here Comes Team Charm!]

I address that in the post, and while I acknowledge the possibility I dismiss it as very significant because:

1. It needs to have encore in the first place, which is ran on a minority of sets.
2. It merely turns the situation into a 50/50, rock wrecker spam still wins.
3. No primarina will click encore against crustle, unless it knows your set, meaning that this is still incredibly valuable as a lure.

 

[Chrispy Burns]

Long time, no speak.
I went over the sets compendium and did some tweaks.
// indicates what I've changed and I've tried all caps where I could. The ones where I just shifted the speed aren't 100% mandatory but the items/ move changes should be looked into.

https://pokepast.es/88f9a59785ec5b29

That wishiwashi on the vr was gross - more on that later.

 

[DEG]

( I just want to post this magnificent piece of art that I created somewhere)
Nyaaaa~ 1v1 >~<. I'm here today to open up discussion on Nyaaanitan-Nyalar >w<. Now I do not think Darmanitan-Galar is near banworthy at the moment but this post is just so we can have some nice discussion heating up to DLC. With both Mimikyu and Jirachi being banned, Darm-G took the first step into the powerful kids group. What makes Darmanitan-G so good, and what makes it swinging in the non-banworthy imo territory for me-ow.

First of all, Darm-G has access to two sets that check a multitude of Pokemon in the current metagame, these sets are Choice Scarf and Choice Band All-Out Offense, these sets also run from the pool of the following moves; Flare Blitz, Superpower, Earthquake, Giga Impact, Icicle Crash which are enough to power through a majority of the metagame. For example Choices Scarf reliably beat faster threats notably Dragapult, Excadrill, Cinderace, and slower scarf Pokemon notably Dracovish, and Dracozolt. Meanwhile Band gives it an easier time against more stally threats such as Aromatisse, Rotom forms or slow offensive Pokemon. The trick in band is that you don't know what the other Pokemon is running, there's a bunch of sets that can also either run scarf / band / fast / slow that mind games the band darm but generally its better to use band versus bulky threats as it nails the OHKO easier. Generally Darm-G being band/ scarf can be known from team preview which takes out both factors that imo makes it broken: Running many sets with little to no opportunity cost as there's clearly some opportunity cost between both sets.

Secondly, there's an interesting list of counters to Darmanitan-G that can beat both sets, not counting Icicle Crash flinch, such as Steelix, Avalugg, Sawk, Crustle, Conkeldurr and that isn't counting the band/scarf 50/50 which makes Darm-G less broken.

Well, there's time and imo we can wait till DLC to make form a final judgment over Darm-G and the metagame is still swinging around after the bans that occurred and will keep until DLC. I just wanted to put this somewhere on the radar, even if far away just to address a currently strong threat in the metagame.

 

[DMPancake]

View attachment 245251

This is the only reason we should ban Galarian Darmanitan

 

[RADU]

View attachment 245251
( I just want to post this magnificent piece of art that I created somewhere)
Nyaaaa~ 1v1 >~<. I'm here today to open up discussion on Nyaaanitan-Nyalar >w<. Now I do not think Darmanitan-Galar is near banworthy at the moment but this post is just so we can have some nice discussion heating up to DLC. With both Mimikyu and Jirachi being banned, Darm-G took the first step into the powerful kids group. What makes Darmanitan-G so good, and what makes it swinging in the non-banworthy imo territory for me-ow.

First of all, Darm-G has access to two sets that check a multitude of Pokemon in the current metagame, these sets are Choice Scarf and Choice Band All-Out Offense, these sets also run from the pool of the following moves; Flare Blitz, Superpower, Earthquake, Giga Impact, Icicle Crash which are enough to power through a majority of the metagame. For example Choice Band reliably beat faster threats notably Dragapult, Excadrill, Cinderace, and slower scarf Pokemon notably Dracovish, and Dracozolt. Meanwhile Band gives it an easier time against more stally threats such as Aromatisse, Rotom forms or slow offensive Pokemon. The trick in band is that you don't know what the other Pokemon is running, there's a bunch of sets that can also either run scarf / band / fast / slow that mind games the band darm but generally its better to use band versus bulky threats as it nails the OHKO easier. Generally Darm-G being band/ scarf can be known from team preview which takes out both factors that imo makes it broken: Running many sets with little to no opportunity cost as there's clearly some opportunity cost between both sets.

Secondly, there's an interesting list of counters to Darmanitan-G that can beat both sets, not counting Icicle Crash flinch, such as Steelix, Avalugg, Sawk, Crustle, Conkeldurr and that isn't counting the band/scarf 50/50 which makes Darm-G less broken.

Well, there's time and imo we can wait till DLC to make form a final judgment over Darm-G and the metagame is still swinging around after the bans that occurred and will keep until DLC. I just wanted to put this somewhere on the radar, even if far away just to address a currently strong threat in the metagame.

Darmanitan-Galar is far from ban-worthy and is one of the healthiest additions to the metagame. It's a strong Pokemon that can run 2 main sets (no big deal, it's actually rare to find a mon that doesn't run two sets) to beat similar things with various match-up difference. The Pokemon in itself has pretty good coverage but actually lacks in variability as it can't really drift away from the main sets, and so its counters end up being plenty and reliable. Some Pokemon can also run gimmick items (see Chilan Berry Primarina) or spreads to beat it with ease.

With DLC rolling around I doubt we'll see a case made for its ban, especially since it looks like it will serve as a good Breaker for Pokemon like Cresselia/Registeel/Chansey and keep them at bay, while still being checked by other powerful Pokemon such as Magnezone and, like, Volcarona I guess.

Also, atm, the current debate for best Pokemon in the tier is between Darmanitan-Galar (with its sheer strength), Primarina (with its insane usage), Sylveon (with its ability to cheese), Dragapult (with its insane variability and its raise in popularity).
Imho it's DarmG, what are your thoughts?

 

[DMPancake]

Also, atm, the current debate for best Pokemon in the tier is between Darmanitan-Galar (with its sheer strength), Primarina (with its insane usage), Sylveon (with its ability to cheese), Dragapult (with its insane variability and its raise in popularity).
Imho it's DarmG, what are your thoughts?

Dragapult and Primarina are roughly equally as good imo. Sylv and Darm-G are good, but I don't think they're as crazy good as Dragapult and Primarina

 

[edudittA]

Suspect test Darmanitan-G. It's not the versatility of its sets, but the damage output that merits it a suspect test. Something like Kyurem-B in gen71v1.. We all know what it does, and so it's not going to pull out a secret magic trick that we don't know of. What its two sets does is nothing new; its Scarf set beats faster threats like Dragapult, Choice Scarf Dracovish, Choice Scarf Dracozolt, and Choice Scarf Hydreigon which loses to the harder-hitting-yet-slower Choice Band set, while the Choice Band set lets it KO bulkier Pokemon like Corviknight, Primarina, Sylveon, Aromatisse, Aegislash, etc. that its Choice Scarf set cannot KO. The grand total of Pokemon that it can beat is like Conkeldurr + Sturdy Pokemon, meaning that any other team that does not have either a Sturdy Pokemon or Conkeldurr will have to base their active Pokemon on what they think the incoming Darmanitan-G's set is. If we are going to get forced into a meta where incredibly niche sets like the aforementioned Chilan Berry Primarina or Sylveon have to become commonplace for the meta to stabilize around Darm-G, I would argue that this would warrant at least a suspect test, if not an outright QB.

 

[zioziotrip]

Suspect test Darmanitan-U. It's not the versatility of its set, but the damage output that merits it a suspect test. Something like Kyurem-W in gen71v1. We all know what it does, and so it's not going to pull out a secret magic trick that we don't know of. What its one set does is nothing new; it is insanely strong and bulky becoming an incredibly fast tank that is unable to be KO'd.
Examples of it KO'g prominent walls:
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Haxorus: 357-365 (100.2 - 105.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Primarina: 378-444 (103.8 - 121.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Corsola-Galar: 357-421 (110.1 - 129.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Darmanitan Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 44 Def Chandelure: 326-384 (100.9 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It also has the option of Solar Beam for dispatching other threats:
0- SpA Darmanitan Solar Beam vs. 236 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 285-336 (104.6 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0- SpA Darmanitan Solar Beam (60 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Dracovish in Rain: 86-102 (119.4 - 141.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Even if the opponet somehow lives an assualt from Darmanitan-U they will be unable to kill back:
140+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Hydro Cannon vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Darmanitan: 60-72 (16.9 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (85 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darmanitan in Rain: 66-80 (18.8 - 22.7%) -- possible 5HKO
tl;dr ban darm-u zzz

 

[Here Comes Team Charm!]

There's a lot more general darmanitan counters than conkeldurr and sturdies (which is, y'know, still seven to eight counters with a variety of weaknesses you dismiss out of hand!).

An incomplete list of mons who do it with ALL of their sets (or their default one):

Durant
Arcanine
Dubwool (why aren't more people using this, it's amazing)
Incineroar
Milotic
Jellicent
Corsola-Galar
Hawlucha
Keldeo
Hitmonlee
Golisopod
Rhyperior
Pyukumuku
(+the 7/8 pokemon mentioned before)

Furthermore, here are some pokemon who have a viable set that also works as a general counter, even if it's not their main one:
Chilan Primarina
Salac berry Ninetales
Scarf Haxorus
Iron Head Gyarados
Chilan Sylveon
Defensive Body Press Blastoise
Scarf Rotom-Heat
Yache Kommo-o
Bulky Bewear
Chople Counter Snorlax
Weak Armor Polteageist (see VR)

Again, these are the pokemon that beat darmanitan with no knowledge of its set or tactics. If you do know what you're facing (generally pretty obvious at team preview), you can run separate pokemon to counter band and scarf, which massively expands the list of options.

Historically, banworthy pokemon have been characterized by a great flexibility in sets (even kyurem-black, unlike what some claim, had set versatility on par with other top tiers). Darmanitan is perhaps the least flexible pokemon in the meta, with literally two possible sets (and 1-2 alternative moves for each), and while that obviously doesn't mean it's weak, it does mean that it's not hard to build for.

(Also Zio, let's try to stay at least somewhat serious here, the anti-darm people have valid concerns and it's not nice to mock them like this)

 

[maki]

View attachment 245251
( I just want to post this magnificent piece of art that I created somewhere)
Nyaaaa~ 1v1 >~<. I'm here today to open up discussion on Nyaaanitan-Nyalar >w<. Now I do not think Darmanitan-Galar is near banworthy at the moment but this post is just so we can have some nice discussion heating up to DLC. With both Mimikyu and Jirachi being banned, Darm-G took the first step into the powerful kids group. What makes Darmanitan-G so good, and what makes it swinging in the non-banworthy imo territory for me-ow.

First of all, Darm-G has access to two sets that check a multitude of Pokemon in the current metagame, these sets are Choice Scarf and Choice Band All-Out Offense, these sets also run from the pool of the following moves; Flare Blitz, Superpower, Earthquake, Giga Impact, Icicle Crash which are enough to power through a majority of the metagame. For example Choices Scarf reliably beat faster threats notably Dragapult, Excadrill, Cinderace, and slower scarf Pokemon notably Dracovish, and Dracozolt. Meanwhile Band gives it an easier time against more stally threats such as Aromatisse, Rotom forms or slow offensive Pokemon. The trick in band is that you don't know what the other Pokemon is running, there's a bunch of sets that can also either run scarf / band / fast / slow that mind games the band darm but generally its better to use band versus bulky threats as it nails the OHKO easier. Generally Darm-G being band/ scarf can be known from team preview which takes out both factors that imo makes it broken: Running many sets with little to no opportunity cost as there's clearly some opportunity cost between both sets.

Secondly, there's an interesting list of counters to Darmanitan-G that can beat both sets, not counting Icicle Crash flinch, such as Steelix, Avalugg, Sawk, Crustle, Conkeldurr and that isn't counting the band/scarf 50/50 which makes Darm-G less broken.

Well, there's time and imo we can wait till DLC to make form a final judgment over Darm-G and the metagame is still swinging around after the bans that occurred and will keep until DLC. I just wanted to put this somewhere on the radar, even if far away just to address a currently strong threat in the metagame.

Me-ow is definitely grateful for nyaa's information. Like what nyaa has meow'd about above, I think "Nyaaanitan-Nyalar" (Darmanitan-Galar) is nyaht at a state where it can be considered broken.

The first point mentioned is that Darmanitan-Galar is in a position where it's item choice affects which multitude of pokemon it checks. While this is definitely a positive for it, it's not so overwhelming that it can be considered broken. In previous generations, item choices for top tier threats like Dragonite in SM and Kyurem-Black in BW have always allowed them to deal with different pokemon. Like those pokemon which have been allowed to stay in the metagame, Darmanitan-Galar still has threats that completely wall it off, notably the sturdy users. While an argument can be made that Darmanitan-Galar always has the potential to score of a flinch, many other pokemon have similar or different RNG factors like Iron Head's flinch chance and Icicle Spear's number of hits that can affect the outcome of a battle.

 

[edudittA]

Against Dubwool

Dubwool - #117 in 1v1

Dubwool items: Chople Berry 32.249% | Leftovers 25.886% | Lum Berry 15.017% | Maranga Berry 9.793% | Chesto Berry 7.914% | Aguav Berry 2.559% | Pecha Berry 2.508% | Other 4.073%

Dubwool moves: Body Press 99.928% | Cotton Guard 99.123% | Rest 77.482% | Counter 42.779% | Payback 26.973% | Protect 14.672% | Sleep Talk 9.504% | Thunder Wave 9.185% | Zen Headbutt 6.692% | Other 13.661% So, Dubwool loses to Icicle Crash Darmanitan-G about 57.221% percent of the time

252+ Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Dubwool: 261-307 (75.2 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. +3 248 HP / 252+ Def Dubwool: 105-124 (30.2 - 35.7%) -- 36.7% chance to 3HKO

Against Incineroar

Incineroar - #22 in 1v1 | Usage: 4.61448% | Raw count: 7,310 | Weight: 0.131782556023

Incineroar items: Weakness Policy 40.845% | Chople Berry 23.343% | Sitrus Berry 13.876% | Choice Band 7.928% | Charcoal 3.634% | Leftovers 2.908% | Assault Vest 2.281% | Life Orb 1.400% | Other 3.785% So, Incineroar loses to Superpower Darmanitan-G about 76.657% percent of the time

Incineroar moves : Inconsequential, since it always beats every Darm-G which it can live with its Fire-type STAB move.

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Superpower vs. 248 HP / 116+ Def Incineroar: 398-470 (101.2 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

against Milotic

Milotic - #40 in 1v1 | Usage: 2.45909% | Raw count: 4,569 | Weight: 0.135569316135

Milotic items: Flame Orb 83.217% | Choice Specs 7.619% | Leftovers 4.310% | Other 4.854% So, Milotic wins against Darmanitan-G about 83.217% percent of the time

Milotic moves : Inconsequential, since it always beats every Darm-G which it can live by stalling it out eventually.

252+ Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 224+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 163-192 (41.4 - 48.8%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after burn damage

against Jellicent

Jellicent - #75 in 1v1 | Usage: 0.71176% | Raw count: 1,323 | Weight: 0.0959363497441

Jellicent items: Inconsequential to the MU

Jellicent moves :Recover 98.094% | Scald 93.518% | Shadow Ball 84.991% | Strength Sap 66.063% | Acid Armor 29.510% | Will-O-Wisp 6.883% | Taunt 4.682% | Other 16.259% So, Jellicent wins against Darmanitan-G about 98.094%*51% (Percent of Recover usage,multiplied by the chance of EQ getting disabled over 2 turns, since it dies to the 3rd EQ after 2 Recovers) percent of the time, that is 50.02794%, so nearly a 50-50.

252+ Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 256-302 (63.3 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

against Corsola-Galar, Hawlucha, Keldeo, Hitmonlee, Golisopod, Pyukumuku

Corsola-Galar - #43 in 1v1 | Usage: 2.32930% | Raw count: 4,689 | Weight: 0.113749947983
Hawlucha - #80 in 1v1 | Usage: 0.62806% | Raw count: 2,827 | Weight: 0.0438699742977
Keldeo - #59 in 1v1 | Usage: 1.19790% | Raw count: 1,979 | Weight: 0.122679961944
Hitmonlee - #77 in 1v1 | Usage: 0.67954% | Raw count: 2,746 | Weight: 0.054199670755
Golisopod - #62 in 1v1 | Usage: 0.99952% | Raw count: 2,101 | Weight: 0.0938557745965
Pyukumuku - #74 in 1v1 | Usage: 0.74197% | Raw count: 2,814 | Weight: 0.0504562200579

Since I am not considering hax as part of the calculation, these always win regardless

Against Rhyperior

Rhyperior - #42 in 1v1 | Usage: 2.42218% | Raw count: 3,805 | Weight: 0.128139379722

Rhyperior items: Choice Band 70.419% | Assault Vest 14.000% | Weakness Policy 12.599% | Other 2.981%

Rhyperior spreads: Impish:252/0/88/0/168/0 10.846% | Adamant:28/228/248/0/0/4 7.279% | Adamant:84/252/0/0/0/172 7.180% | Adamant:252/252/4/0/0/0 7.113% | Adamant:180/160/0/0/168/0 6.293% | Impish:248/0/116/0/144/0 5.986% | Other 55.302% So,ignoring all Other spreads, I think only 37.657165868% of Rhyperiors beat Choice Band Darmanitan-G.

252+ Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 432-510 (99.5 - 117.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 28 HP / 252 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 357-423 (94.4 - 111.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

Other strats pointed out by HCTC

Chilan Primarina: 14.35256%(Primarina's usage) * 6.485% (Chilan's usage on Primarina) = Roughly 0.930763516 % usage
[ Primarina - #2 in 1v1 | Usage: 14.35256% | Raw count: 14,410 | Weight: 0.195588199201
Chilan Berry - Mystic Water 32.278% | Choice Specs 16.202% | Weakness Policy 12.998% | Petaya Berry 10.985% | Assault Vest 9.023% | Chilan Berry 6.485% | Wacan Berry 2.692% | Life Orb 2.506% | Choice Scarf 2.490% | Other 4.340%]

Salac Berry Ninetales:
Ninetales - #116 in 1v1 | Usage: 0.17782% | Raw count: 467 | Weight: 0.0928422481505
Choice Specs 75.287% | Life Orb 7.739% | Air Balloon 5.764% | Kee Berry 5.598% | Leftovers 1.682% | Other 3.929%
It could be used, but it's not used as yet, though. I am not criticizing the sudden emergence of new sets, but we can't really predict the future, and so, we have to stick with what's happening now.

Haxorus

Haxorus - #11 in 1v1 | Usage: 6.55639% | Raw count: 8,505 | Weight: 0.145786931901

Haban Berry 47.115% | Choice Scarf 18.708% | Choice Band 18.210% | Life Orb 14.870% | Other 1.097%
Scarf Darm-G, which is still 62.5% usage, beats 81.292% of Haxorus

192 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Haxorus: 462-546 (157.6 - 186.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Iron Head Gyarados

Gyarados - #50 in 1v1 | Usage: 1.49339% | Raw count: 3,427 | Weight: 0.0969608080196

Adamant:48/252/144/0/0/64 28.386% | Adamant:0/252/0/0/4/252 9.731% | Adamant:52/228/144/0/0/84 8.359% | Adamant:40/252/0/0/152/64 6.522% | Adamant:0/252/0/0/0/224 5.051% | Adamant:208/252/48/0/0/0 4.774% | Other 37.178%

Life Orb 49.298% | Wacan Berry 10.920% | Choice Band 10.604% | Charti Berry 9.771% | Sitrus Berry 8.449% | Leftovers 5.009% | Choice Scarf 2.511% | Other 3.439%

So, 68.872369552% of Gyarados are beating Darmanitan-G; fair enuf..

Chilan Sylveon

Sylveon - #6 in 1v1 | Usage: 8.39808% | Raw count: 12,470 | Weight: 0.137287530485
Pixie Plate 60.689% | Choice Specs 23.485% | Babiri Berry 6.780% | Leftovers 4.068% | Other 4.978%

Same as for Chilan Primarina

Defensive Blastoise

Blastoise - #51 in 1v1 | Usage: 1.46822% | Raw count: 3,327 | Weight: 0.113052724923
Shell Smash 71.460% | Hydro Cannon 69.014% | Dragon Pulse 49.907% | Counter 48.849% | Mirror Coat 28.351% | Ice Beam 18.919% | Iron Defense 14.962% | Substitute 14.869% | Body Press 13.206% | Scald 12.041% | Aqua Jet 10.263% | Aura Sphere 8.466% | Protect 7.827% | Rapid Spin 6.430%

252+ Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Blastoise: 336-396 (92.8 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

So 48.85% of Blastoise win with Counter, while 13.206% win with Iron Defense into Body Press.

Scarf Rotom-H

Rotom-Heat - #20 in 1v1 | Usage: 5.25150% | Raw count: 6,238 | Weight: 0.174493662836
Choice Specs 35.517% | Choice Scarf 28.061% | Life Orb 17.507% | Sitrus Berry 5.249% | Kee Berry 4.383% | Passho Berry 3.682% | Charcoal 1.942% | Other 3.660%
1.473623415% used and it beats both its main sets to a fair degree

Yache Kommo-o

Haban Berry 65.611% | Yache Berry 15.420% | Aguav Berry 12.691% | Leftovers 2.753% | Other 3.526%
Kommo-o - #23 in 1v1 | Usage: 4.40446% | Raw count: 5,227 | Weight: 0.166478680698

252+ Def Kommo-o Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darmanitan-Galar: 452-534 (128.7 - 152.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Bulky Bewear

Bewear - #44 in 1v1 | Usage: 2.26969% | Raw count: 2,820 | Weight: 0.181555924497 (This surprised me more than anything else I found about during the research; it's actually used more than Gyarados :o )
Adamant:0/248/24/0/0/236 26.560% | Adamant:0/252/140/0/0/116 19.044% | Adamant:240/116/52/0/0/100 10.105% | Adamant:240/100/52/0/0/116 8.079% | Adamant:0/232/56/0/0/220 4.768% | Adamant:8/252/184/0/0/62 4.280% | Other 27.164%
None of those spreads beat Darmanitan-G more than half of the time

Bulky Counter Chople Snorlax

Snorlax - #37 in 1v1 | Usage: 2.72636% | Raw count: 4,833 | Weight: 0.123754812306
Adamant:12/236/252/0/8/0 24.956% | Adamant:32/216/252/0/8/0 19.931% | Adamant:12/232/252/0/8/4 15.649% | Adamant:34/214/252/0/8/0 4.754% | Careful:228/0/252/0/28/0 4.224% | Adamant:8/252/244/0/0/0 2.581% | Other 27.905%

Other than the bolded spread, all other spreads lose to Band Giga Impact, which makes Snorlax losing to Darmanitan-G a grand probability of 94.141063874%.

Polteageist?
252+ Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Polteageist: 340-402 (104.9 - 124%) -- guaranteed OHKO

HCTC's whole argument was that fun unmons can beat Darmanitan-G, but even then, a not-very-insignificant number all those that he listed which do win against Choice Scarf Darmanitan-G lose to Choice Band Darmanitan-G. That's the whole point of it all, and this is what pushes Darm-G over the top for me;the fact that CB Darmanitan-G beats all fatter Pokemon that CB Darm fails to KO, and Scarf Darm-G beats all Pokemon that outspeed and OHKO Band Darmanitan-G. That is why I feel that this is the second most banworthy stuff this gen after Kyurem-B.


Note: Why did I waste half-a-day on this post?

 

[Here Comes Team Charm!]

In-depth responses

Dubwool
Yeah, sorry but Counter is 100% part of the standard dubwool set (if it's the fourth most common move, what else would be the default set), if someone wants to run Payback or Thunder Wave that's great for them, but that doesn't suddenly mean dubwool stops being a hard counter.
If enough people start spamming band zeraora with plasma fists/superpower/fire punch/giga impact, would you really say the sentence 'zeraora is a dragapult counter' becomes false?

Incineroar
Fair point here: I thought chople was more common but apparently I was wrong. In that case, let me put incineroar down as 'only a specific set checks both', which fortunately matters exactly zilch for people who want to darm-proof their teams.

Milotic
Glad we agree it's a counter, going into the specific framing a bit down in the post though.

Jellicent
All the jellicents that don't have acid armor or willo are going to have strength sap, and darmanitan's attack stat is insane enough for jellicent to heal to full. At that point, just spam recover until it runs out of PP.

Corsola-galar and the whole bunch
No objections here, we agree they're counters.

Rhyperior
If half the spreads don't even show up, I'm very hesitant to draw conclusions. Also general annoyance at the fact that we're ignoring 35% common sets when discussing whether it counters a 25% common set.

Scarf haxorus and Chilan primarina
If I say 'this specific set wins, but it is uncommon and is listed separately to make this very clear', it's kind of strange to respond 'yes it does but the set is uncommon'. Like yeah, that's the point I was making. People aren't randomly picking whatever is popular at the moment, they look at what their team needs and see if there's a set for that.

Ninetales
Salac ninetales was mentioned because I saw someone showcase it a few days ago, and it's a new set based on PL developments, so yeah it's not going to show up in last month's usage stats.

Blastoise
Look at those usage stats again: every defensive blastoise is 252/252 Bold, no roll needed, guaranteed win whether you use body press or counter (don't tell me some blastoises have this spread but don't use either).
252+ Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 306-361 (84.5 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Scarf Rotom-H, Chople Snorlax, Kommo-O, seriously cut it out
Why do you keep doing that thing you did with primarina, where I give a specific set that counters and you try to make arguments about overall usage as if they contradict anything I say.

Bewear
40 HP/252 def wins, I'm not saying it's common, I'm saying it's just another option for teambuilders who need a counter.

WEAK ARMOR Polteageist (SEE VR)
Anyway, someone posted a fun set in the VR that I'm not saying is good, or at all used, but was worth mentioning. It wins with endure and weak armor, by the way.

Conkeldurr, Crustle, Avalugg, Gigalith, Togedemaru, Steelix, Sawk, (Sudowoodo)
Y'know, just a general reminder these all still exist too. Sturdies have surprisingly few common weaknesses this generation: that's worth noting too! Even mold breakers or fake out users don't tend to kill more than half (willo users are a different story, but sawk is fast and lum berry crustle is a set).

These pokemon aren't 'fun unmons', except polteageist which I fully admit is a meme. Go into the 1v1 room, ask for a set, chances are it'll be one from the compendium aka what I based these lists on.


Main point: I strongly oppose attitude's reliance on usage stats when arguing that the meta does not have many darmanitan counters.

Firstly, these stats are from April, averaging mid-april (about one month ago). Back in April, mimikyu and jirachi were both still legal, and were the two most-used pokemon in the metagame, meaning that most teams didn't need a dedicated darmanitan counter: they could just slap one or both on their team and be good. That doesn't mean darmanitan will be overpowered without these mons to keep it in check, but it does mean that April Meta minus its central mons is in no way indicative of what the future will be like.

Secondly: every pokemon is going to seem uncommon if you calculate the likelihood of running into specific sets. This doesn't matter: what matters is that a team who needs a darmanitan counter can find one, without this putting huge constraints on teambuilding. My earlier list served to show that yes, these counters exist.

Thirdly: have you been on ladder, lately? Sturdies are more common, yes (low ladder has regrettably taken a liking to togedemaru), but people can build without those with ease! I've seen nearly everything mentioned in my post on the actual ladder. And again, that's ignoring the entirely viable option of bringing a separate band check and scarf check, and just gauging what the darmanitan is gonna be (just like how sylveon checks sometimes lose to babiri or specs, but those sets have other counters).

Finally: Jirachi got banned last Saturday. Give the meta the time to adjust before you judge whether or not darmanitan will drastically constrain teambuilding.

 

[Kaif]

HCTC's whole argument was that fun unmons can beat Darmanitan-G, but even then, a not-very-insignificant number all those that he listed which do win against Choice Scarf Darmanitan-G lose to Choice Band Darmanitan-G. That's the whole point of it all, and this is what pushes Darm-G over the top for me;the fact that CB Darmanitan-G beats all fatter Pokemon that CB Darm fails to KO, and Scarf Darm-G beats all Pokemon that outspeed and OHKO Band Darmanitan-G. That is why I feel that this is the second most banworthy stuff this gen after Kyurem-B.

originally I avoided responding to your last post because it was very obviously stupid but now I feel like it's time to post smth. "Sets such as Chilan Prim / Sylv are niche and commonplace only because of darmg" this is true to an extent however those sets are also ran because of Diggersby / Snorlax / Bewear, those items are run because the other alternative is usually Mystic Water or Pixie Plate respectively and running Chilan is fairly low opportunity cost.

The grand total of Pokemon that it can beat is like Conkeldurr + Sturdy Pokemon, meaning that any other team that does not have either a Sturdy Pokemon or Conkeldurr will have to base their active Pokemon on what they think the incoming Darmanitan-G's set is.

this is just false and not a single above average player will disagree that darmg has tons of counters in the metagame from sets like meowstic and arcanine to mons like gorsola and faster scarfers. You compared it to sm kyuremb (which wasn't even broken) that had vastly different options than choice band and choice scarf, the only similarity is that big stronk ice and big stronk ice. Overall I feel like DarmG limits teambuilding if anything but not to a point that I would want to get rid of it from the meta and I'd like it to stay this way till dlc unless something retardedly broken pops up.

 

[Here Comes Team Charm!]

Also worth noting that the DLC will make darmanitan less attractive, judging from the announced mons:

-Magnezone is a pretty obvious darm counter.
-Slowbro tanks any hit and gets Counter, or it can just do an ID thing.
-Volcarona and Azumarill can do pretty well with a chilan berry.
-Band Talonflame shreds darmanitan.
-LO/Band Accelerock from Lycanroc-Dusk kills.
-New move tutors??? Superpower/Iron Head/Low Kick were all tutor moves in past gens and might be relevant versus darm.

 

[zioziotrip]

If you weren’t able to infer it from my last post, I am firmly against a suspect test of Darm-G. As someone who plays and discusses this tier an unhealthy amount, I find it fair to say Darm-G is not anywhere enough an issue to justify removal from the tier. It’s arguably not even the best mon, Slyveon and Prim edge it out in versatility and overall their typings and special strength are much more useful.

I think the primary issue w/ Darm-G is it’s insane linearity, it has two good sets and Endure Salac. Endure Salac was a Rachi tech but now its only use is beating Haxorous and maybe Encore could have some utility but the opportunity cost is massive as you are way weaker compared to Gorilla Tactics. I know it’s very scary to see the combo of insane attack in addition to very good coverage but you have to keep some things in mind.

• 95 is a speed tier that falls just short of what Darm needs. It’ll get nuked by faster attackers if it opts to run band and if it opts to run scarf it’ll lose a fair amount of power it becomes more susceptible to stall in addition too still being outsped by other scarfers such as Hydregion and Haxorous.
• 105/55/55 bulk is not bad but you’re not going to be living any hits from fairly strong mons. Ice typing is also not going to score Darm any points as the very good Sturdy mons all have s/e coverage against it. You are also weak to fire leaving little room to cheese Air Ballon fire types such as Arcanine and Chandelure. The bulk also means you’ll be unable to tank hits from any mon that lives an attack, notable examples being Band Vish and Chillan Prim. There’s that nasty 30% flinch chance to cheese mons like Sawk or Lix but if getting lucky was enough of a reason to warrant a ban Toge would’ve been banned a long time ago.
• Darm is lure bait. Chople Lax, Chople Ttar, Chilian Stoise/Prim, Shuca Zera, Yache Kommo-w, w/e else wack set maxy can think up. Luring Darm is incredibly easy and it makes it difficult to justify any the aftermentioned mons as checked by Darm. Darm ends up getting messed up by a lot of lures meant for other mons such as Chilian Prim for Diggersby, Shuca Zera for scarf Hax, and Ttar and Lax just for physical attackers in general. Using Darm requires a lot of set guessing which holds it back.

Darm is not anywhere near being the next KyuB. KyuB had insane bulk and an excellent secondary typing that helped round out its insane bulk and provided 120 BP stab. Is Darm strong as all hell? Yes. Does it have enough flaws to justify keeping it the tier? Absolutely yes. Darm is also an incredibly helpful presence to the tier. Band nukes every stall mon not named Corsola which is nice as not much outright beats stall. Darm is not anywhere near broken at the moment, I doubt it ever will be it does not have much potential for growth in terms of versatility unlike a certain stupid ghost puppet. At the moment I sincerely do not see any threat that is banworthy unless some wacky tech is discovered. The kingpins, Prim, Sylv, and Darm-G all provide much needed presences of strength and bulk respectively and they all have flaws holding them back from being broken.

 

[Smajet]

Band nukes every stall mon not named Corsola

Umm, Arcanine.
Speaking of which, not only can stall Arcanine beat Darm-G 100% (or just bulk for Jolly Band because Ada Band isn't super common), but Jolly Band/LO speed ties Jolly Band Darm-G and beats every thing else.
TL;DR: Use Arcanine. It's still pretty cool.

 

[DMPancake]

TL;DR: Use Arcanine. It's still pretty cool.

Arcanine literally cannot lose to gdarm unless you misplay. Sturdy pokemon obliterate most g-darm sets, and any reasonable Endure/Salac (rip in heck custap) set can take advantage of gdarm's pathetically low defenses, its horrible typing defensively, and inadequate hp.

strength is more than just stats, it's how many ways you can use them. Darm's got some fat stats, but it's just like every other huge/pure power user - a one trick pony.

(mawile doesn't even have that anymore )

 

[zioziotrip]

With DLC (more or less) right around the corner, I'm going to go over some stuff coming back in both DLCs as well as speculation of the new stuff. I can speculate on what is coming back but for the sake of this post I will only be going over things that are confirmed or stuff could be reasonably assumed such as starters returning. Obviously spoilers if you wish to avoid the info.

Let us start off w/ basically the only mon that matters, rest are mediocre to awful in comparison

This is my mans 123 attack Reckless STAB Flare Blitz. Emboar has two things that set it apart from its Fire-type competition. One, really good coverage. Wild Charge, Head Smash, Sucker Punch, Flame Charge, and special options that aren't entirely awful considering Emboar has 100 spa in Grass Knot and Scald. Second, STAB Close Combat (or Superpower assuming SS somehow doesn't give Emboar CC) which is nice for Chansey albeit Fire STAB is usually more useful for most MUs. This thing has a lot of potential, don't sleep.

While I'm here might as well talk about all of the notable returning starters, I'll cover it in FWG order and make one section for all the ones w/ likely small niches.

This will be good for sure. 80 initially falls just short of making it busted but Speed Boost is an incredibly good abilty and on a mon w/ incredible bases and a good movepool Blaziken will be good for sure. This is a weird case as you'd usually point to how this mon did in previous gens but Mega existed in SM and ORAS so it'll be interesting to how Blaziken fares w/o 160 attack. It's movepool is clean and it has two high BP STABs so there is no way this thing will be not good but I can't see it being defining.

Blaze go brrrrr. I was hyped about this thing but all it has over Cinderace is boosting, Fighting STAB, and Blast Burn. To be fair, those all are pretty good traits but in a tier that will be saturated w/ excellent Fire-types this thing will struggle to stand out. Not bad by any means it may take over Cinderace's role if being special proves to be more useful than being faster and stronger physically. also keep in mind 100% superior emboar exists

Can't see these two being particularly useful. Movepools are not nearly useful enough compared to their counterparts and overall their abilities and stats aren't conducive to a good niche. Delphox maybe can do smth w/ CM idk I really doubt it. Eruption is also not impressive when all of Typloshion's competition gets Blast Burn.

Gets Yawn so maybe this'll be good? Idk losing out on Mega's bulk and strength is pretty huge and while it frees up the item spot what are you gonna put there considering Custap doesn't exist. It's a bulky water w/ no boosting and no reliable recovery and it's stats are underwhelming. Thought I'd mention it just to reminisce about Mega Pert.

No Custap is a huge L but Empoleon's typing is clean. It's quite situational but sometimes teams are just unable to break Steel/Water w/o dying back. Torrent boosted Hydro Cannon can't be bad.

Wuh oh. While losing out on Hidden Power is pretty big Protean is just a ridiculously good ability backed up by solid stats and an insane movepool. Gunk Shot especially seems useful considering the dominance fairy types have rn. Gren is Gren it'll be really good, not much to say.

They lack a good secondary typing as well as mediocre speed tier for offensive mons w/ no bulk. Dead on arrival.

The return of the king. Contrary+Leaf storm is a match made in heaven in addition to being able to Sub Seed Stall other shit. Until its fren Regi is back tho this thing will struggle to stand out, I mean you could just use another Steel but that's lame. Barring Prim, Serp does not really have useful great matchups versus the best mons and w/ better Fire types returning and Dragons still poised to rule Serp will have its fair share of issue. Not bad by any means but this thing is hard carried by Contrary and when Contrary isn't useful it really shows Serp's weaknesses.

Grass is not a good typing I doubt any of these mons have any reason to use them over Whimsi, Rillaboom, or Serp. Torterra may be cool when Custap returns and Sceptile is fast so maybe those two can find a niche but I really doubt the other two have any chance.

Time to move onto returning mons that are confirmed for the first DLC.

130 special attack is really good, Sturdy is really good, typing is useful in SS. This thing is poised to be one of the better things in the tier and it stands as one of the Sturdy mons that can beat stall. Metal Sound+Electro web looks very clean maybe Specs could work. Rotom-H, Zera, Hax are all posed to be nuisances but Magnezone is for sure an excellent addition to the tier, finally a great offensive Steel.

A Haban Dragon w/ 102 speed seems very clean and Scarf has potential for beating all the Scarfers around 95. You also have options like SD and Fire Blast for dispatching certain stall threats and two high BP stabs are very nice. Garchomp will find quite a nice niche in SS especially before DLC 2.

Fat motherfucker now look who's in trouble. This gen Chansey can finally run both Charm+Stoss which means Charm won't have to rely on random coverage backed up by no special attack. The new face in Darm-G may pose an issue but nonetheless Chansey will be a defining stall pokemon. Blissey may be worthless for running Kee or some shit I really doubt it unless Mail becomes a thing in which case that'll make Blissey a menace.

The typing is great both defensively and offensively and Metagross packs a punch. Also gets solid moves like BP, EQ, T Punch, and Hammer Arm which help give Metagross options although most of the time you will be clicking Meteor Mash. Berries such as Occa and Shuca look clean as hell allowing Metagross to weakness Sturdy mons in range of BP as well as picking up some MUs from the Berry. Also 70 speed is quite salvageable I can see this being quite good before DLC 2, RegiSerp and Zapdos will pose an issue for it and while not a dealbreaker it will def hurt Metagross's viability.

Oblivious is such a great ability for a stall mon albeit the loss of Battle Armor is very sad. This will fulfill the role of a stall mon that can take on Corv and Mandi. The choice between Amnesia and CM will be a rough one considering both have sizeable trade-offs. The loss of essentially 70 defense, being Trickable now, on top of loss of Battle Armor is pretty huge but it can't be awful considering it's a stall mon w/ Oblivious.

Despite having seemingly excellent MUs last-gen this thing never really came to be used. While its movepool, typing, and abilty all seem great on paper the stats really hold it back. Serviceable bulk doesn't really cut it and 85 speed is quite mediocre. This thing always gets a lot of hype for beating the best shit but then you look at its abysmal MUs w/ other mons.

This mons finally gets Charm+Amensia+Sap Sipper. A water that beats grasses is brazy but honestly other than that I would never use it over other bulky waters. Huge Power may alright but I'm not a huge fan of mons that are this slow and 436 attack is not impressive as what it first seems.

This thing has seen quite a fair amount of hype and I think for good reason. 135 spa 100 speed are quite good w/ two offensive STABS but there are few things holding it back from stardom. 85/65/105 bulk while serviceable is not going to be tanking any decently strong hit. Rock and Water are fairly common typings that hurt Volc. Regardless, this thing is fast Centiskorch that can beat a lot of the notable stall mons and beating Sylv is cool. I can see this being quite good but it's going to have 4mss which is always a pain.

Fair warning, this one hasn't been confirmed but I heard it was coming back once forget from where. Adaptability is nutty ability especially when the move you're boosting is Hyper Beam. Anything that is not a resist is dead on the spot and PZ has potential to cheese resists w/ NP. While the loss of Z-Conversion is a bummer PZ will remain an incredible offensive presence in 1v1.

Download is a brazy ability I can see this mon finding a niche BoltBeam good bulk is noteworthy. Best physical boosting option being Reflect stings but I'm sure P2 will find a niche based off its sheer bulk.

Time to talk about legendaries returning in the second DLC.

Observation: This is a great opportunity for slaughter. 80/150/150 bulk is crazy especially considering the excellent defensive typing that is pure Steel. Registeel also has ID, Amnesia, and Counter helping it supplement its already excellent bulk. Regi is most infamous for RegiSerp which is an insanely good stall core. Regi will be one of the most important parts of the metagame and may finally overthrow the reign of Prim and Sylv.

Already a really good Pressure stall mon w/ potential for offensive sets and the addition of Eerie Impulse is really nice. Such a strong mon w/ a lot of versatility Zapdos will be an incredible pick although losing Hidden Power is a pretty huge hit for Specs, Hurricane may patch that up although. Zapdos is set to be one of the most defining mons in the tier.

Gets Stored Power and Cosmic Power now, wuh oh. Cress is already difficult enough to kill and it finally got psychical boosting which is a pain. Dark mons can't even properly hold Cress back because of Moonblast breaking Cress is insanely difficult you're going to have to rely on your Trick mon being able to kill Cress before it kills you, which is easier said than done. Darm-G can't properly dent this thing which is really scary the general de-power creep of SS makes Cress look nutty. Not unbeatable, however it does cover a fair amount of attackers in the tier.

Worse Zapdos unless you're lucky. Fr tho, it does have Taunt over Zapdos so it will be Zapdos that can beat stall mons but not being able to wall things. It has a useful enough movepool it'll get by.

SS may finally get a good ground, although Chomp will fill this role before DLC 2. Intimidate and Lando's excellent stats are also nice albeit Lando will not see as much success in 1v1 as it does in OU. Speed tier and abundance of bulky waters is always an issue but it's bound to be a solid breaker.

While it lost being an insane nuke w/ the loss of Z-Moves Koko is still really strong in addition to an annoying stall set that prone to become even more annoying w/ the introduction of Eerie Impulse. Band can also break dragons now w/ Play Rough. If it was banworthy last gen I can't really see that changing this gen being both a fast nuke and stall mon is incredibly annoying to handle. A suspect is probably inevitable and I think that's reasonable considering the insane potential Koko has.

Lost Z-Reflect but it's still strong as all hell so it'll be fine. Losing the ability to be a physical wall is a bummer but it's still ridiculously strong and it's already been shown that strong fairies are very good. Also w/ option like Taunt and Nature's Madness make Lele look really good going into SS.

Also got Play Rough allowing to break dragons this will be incredibly strong albeit awkward typing and speed tier hold it back. It's strong as all hell and also somewhat bulky so it'll be quite solid but it's hurt by its typing more than it's helped by it.

No Tapium-Z really hurts Fini. Typing is nutty, bulk is good, speed tier is solid, it gets Taunt, and it can't be statused so it's bound to be usable but it's going to struggle to break things. It'll be a stall check taking over Corv's and Mandi's job assuming something else hasn't already stepped in.

Time to speculate about the new mons, seeing as some of them don't really have info to really talk about I'll refrain from those. That means no Galar formes.

Typing seems really bad. Unless it has some insane STAB backed up by excellent offenses it'll fall by the wayside. Maybe some Taunt variant could be cool but a lot of things are going to half to go right for this thing to be good.

Assuming both have Regi-like stats they'll be very good. Both are really nice defensive typings but there is also the possibility these go the offensive route which would be interesting. Electric seems solid albeit Lando-T and Chomp will be scary. My issue w/ Dragon is that it'll most likely end up being a Slow Haban Dragon which is always bad. Doesn't help w/ the abundance of fairies that currently rule the tier. To me it seems these two will be hard to justify over Registeel in most cases, doesn't mean they'll be bad or outclassed just they'll be more nichepicks.

Keldeo and Pangoro typings both seem like Fairy food. I'm unimpressed by Keldeo and unless this one is significantly stronger I really doubt it'll be able to hold water(heh). The Pangoro one especially is just going to be unable to touch fairies and die back. They'll find some niche for sure if they're strong enough but I'm not holding my breath.

In conculsion

While there are still a few things to go over such as new moves for returning mons and how viable old mons will be going into DLC but this post is already taken long enough I may make a follow up to cover those fronts. One thing I would like to note however is that a good portion of the returning mons seem like Darm-G food. DLC seems significantly more interesting than the SS we currently play and I can't wait to see how the new faces fare in the meta.

 

[IBM]

The return of the king. Contrary+Leaf storm is a match made in heaven in addition to being able to Sub Seed Stall other shit. Until its fren Regi is back tho this thing will struggle to stand out, I mean you could just use another Steel but that's lame. Barring Prim, Serp does not really have useful great matchups versus the best mons and w/ better Fire types returning and Dragons still poised to rule Serp will have its fair share of issue. Not bad by any means but this thing is hard carried by Contrary and when Contrary isn't useful it really shows Serp's weaknesses.

Serp is a strong independent grass type that don’t need no Regi

 

[Mubs]

I’m not going to bump General Information / SQSA thread so I’m posting here
Can we please remove Monotype and Ubers 1v1 from the official schedule? Not only have they not had any development to speak of, there are actual 1v1 Snake slot contenders that would love the exposure, such as:

• NatDex 1v1
• UU 1v1
• AAA 1v1
• 2v2 Doubles
• Dynamax 1v1 (totally was not threatened to put this here)

Please replace Wednesday and Saturdays OM officials. Thanks for reading and have a nice day.

Mubs out.

 

[clerica]

• Dynamax 1v1 (totally was not threatened to put this here)

I would never threaten you D: <3

For real though I think it would be nice to have dmax because it provides something unique to this gen in terms of tours and can be really fun to play. I personally don't like the idea of another sm slot natdex because it just feels like the poor person's sm to me but other than that these are all cool options.

 

[nolenot]

free BH 1v1 instead of AAA 1v1

Honestly i feel like BH 1v1 would be awesome because its like AAA 1v1 but its not as restricted and seems like it would be fun in tours. Also people havent really played BH1v1 much so i feel like that would be nice to try something new

 

[IBM]

Free Custom Game 1v1 instead of BH 1v1

Honestly i feel like Custom Game 1v1 would be awesome because its like BH 1v1 but its not as restricted and seems like it would be fun in tours. Also people havent really played Custom Game 1v1 much so i feel like that would be nice to try something new

 

[Ginger Princess]

free BH 1v1 instead of AAA 1v1

Honestly i feel like BH 1v1 would be awesome because its like AAA 1v1 but its not as restricted and seems like it would be fun in tours. Also people havent really played BH1v1 much so i feel like that would be nice to try something new

Free Custom Game 1v1 instead of BH 1v1

Honestly i feel like Custom Game 1v1 would be awesome because its like BH 1v1 but its not as restricted and seems like it would be fun in tours. Also people havent really played Custom Game 1v1 much so i feel like that would be nice to try something new

both of these belong in the 1v1 OMs thread-

regardless, nolenot BH 1v1 is free for anyone to take right now, the only issue is that there are probably an absurd amount of broken tech that exists that would require banning in order to maintain that 'balanced' part of BH. It's a bit of a daunting task that might not really worth it competitively, since its basically impossible to consistently predict tech options, and would be super chaotic.

 

[LRXC]

Me and Potatochan discuss the metagame.... in a way...