Metagame 1v1 Old Gens

Tol · Sep 12, 2022

SwordIsBored said:
Okay. But ORAS should unban Chansey with Seismic Toss + Charm.

not how that works, that’s from chansey literally not being able to get it on cart

DEG · Sep 12, 2022

crucify said:
anyway back to zard. fact is, in practice, picking zardy is incredibly rewarding and getting zardy picked vs you is incredibly frustrating. in experiencing this, i started to think why do i even use zardx over zardy. im not matchup charting this obviously bc matchup charts are fucking shit. completely ignore team structures and how the mons counters factor into a metagame as a whole. obvious example with this in oras is manaphy, grass and electric types Suck but yeah they beat that guy.

I don't really see / understand the point of the "getting zardy picked vs you is incredibly frustrating.". It's not really a Charizard Y effect. This can be translated easily to "getting zard picked vs you is incredibly frustrating", "getting zard x picked vs you is incredibly frustrating". There's really nothing rewarding/frustrating about picking mega charizard y. Clicking a rock mon and getting countered on after Zard X living is frustrating, but there's nothing scary about Charizard Y that puts it above Charizard X. I fail to get that point.

crucify said:
anyway back to mega charizard again. something that got said so fucking in my time is what does x do that y doesnt. most cited example is belly drum x beating slowbro and venusaur mega, two mons that most x sets lose to but y just beats bc its zardy. im sorry but belly drum x is just a shit lure set. and i think most zardx sets rn in 2022 are shit lure sets, which is take that people obviously hate but idc. i think the only really good x sets, like S tier sets for it, are fast sub and impish (aka max defense wisp/counter). sd flame charge is like o k but bleh. brick break is dick balls, rock tomb eq beats tran and literally no one else unless u do funky evs, steel wing is a lure for one mon, etc. special mention on endure x, running endure on x isnt actually that good in practice but its usable, i think the main issue with it is it makes you as the zard user have to guess more than you should want to in order to beat somthing like gren, and also my next main point which is not running fast sub or impish or sd is actually really bad opportunity cost right now because of how the meta is structured, especially with how good mew/togekiss/manaphy are right now. you can just get in bad situations so easily vs those mons, and you are so limited in what you can do with your team because of those broken guys.

Nitpicking the post, "bro and venu are mons that zard y beats", cool? And Zard X can beat some rock-types and dragon-types that Y doesn't. What's the point here? You also cannot afford to run much bulk if you want to beat Mega Slowbro and Manaphy w/ Solar beam so it has as much opportunity cost as X sets.

crucify said:
dude derek asked me what reliably beats zardy with one streamlined line of play and doesnt lose to air slash flinch and the first two mons i named were fuckin band gren and garchomp, two actual chodes mons though gren is good actually just not band.

This is actually the biggest larp in history. To name a few, "gren, heatran, dia, chomp, lando, ttar, dnite, arch, zone, sawk, terrak, kyurem-b, haxorus" These mons are scared of X lmao not Y + this is literally ignoring some as you say "shaky" counters like Malt, Chansey, and Mega Gyarados.

If you wish to quote a banned user, I can also quote my own which says the following;

crucify said:
anyway ENOUGH ok its obligatory i talk about zardy sets, modest is obviously insanely strong, timid is good bc timid ancient power is good, we're not at the stage yet where x mega's t1 vs opposing zard and its a game of whether we hard outrage or dd, endure is good but expected now, sub can be huge especially with toxic, toxic can also be huge with counter, smoking on every victini/dd malt spamming cuck teams pack, counter itself is just so huge bc it basically forces an opposing physical attacker that tries to beat zardy to hit it with a rock move or lose 252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 240 HP / 224 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 280-330 (78.4 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (random example calc). counters also actually just so good for everyones favorite set, that can be teched by gyara in a fuckin second if people were about it, weakness policy victini, and also the scarf dragons bc clicking scarf rock move is tough with impish zard being prominent. also somehow focus blast/secondary fire move (flamethrower/inferno) are usable in some cases now

It's funny that u called zard x lure sets bad while you're trying to argue about maxmax impish zard y. X just runs this set but better while being able to beat some rocks, and you can't say buuut it beats water types. You actually beat zero water stall or stall mons with 0 spa and 0 speed. bro-mega, manaphy, and msab just wins if you're running 0 spa. You also say counter is good for wp victini hat larps about beating mega gyarados, sooo if its really not that good then people will change the set and no longer lose to counter Y? Also 2022 community finally caught up on ancient power zard y the 2016 tech.

crucify said:
man, if Y didn't exist there could be so much stupid shit that could be used to beat x like oml. x literally loses to the item rocky helmet and fairy typing + disable by force most of the time bro oh My God dude victini mew togekiss manaphy are all for sure more broken than x without Y and sableye is so fucking bad oh my god romanian sableye really ruined sableye's legacy forever dude holy shit. enough about that meta though actually one more thing zardx is some excadrill lookin ass motherfucker in that meta bc it beats a lot of the brokens kek

And Charizard Y literally loses to every rock move in the game if there's x?? This point makes 0 sense. Victini, Mew, Manaphy will be as broken without X than it will be without Y, there's nothing tangible that proves your point, nor mine. Actual future talks are bullshit since I'm as adamant as you that banning Y would break the metagame as much as banning X. Also Zard Y becomes a walking A- mon w/out x.

crucify said:
so yeah anyway why am i really using zardx over zardy? beat victini? yeah ok. be better vs other zard..? i guess if ur not about the ancient power grind. beating band gren or scarf aegi?? yeah i mean ok... i guess... beating some fuckin unviably typed pokemon (electrics and rock types/coverage moves)?

And? Is there anything wrong with that? No. And what is that newly discovered ancient power love that basically lose to x mega evolving, it's hilarious that you're calling rock types unviable btw.

It's not about tiering policy. Your points just screams "I'm scared about a Victini, Mana, Mew" meta when banning Y will also bring you to the same meta. It's about focusing on the present which is the tangible metagame. Zard Y isn't broken nor unhealthy.

RADU · Sep 13, 2022

no matter how much tiering action you take all 1v1 metagames will forever remain dogshit

i rest my case

Eeveeto · Sep 13, 2022

STABLE said:
no matter how much tiering action you take all 1v1 metagames will forever remain dogshit

i rest my case

All except GSC. Imagine breaking the brain by thinking the optimal EV Spreads instead of maxing all the Stats. Couldn't be me.

The Official Glyx · Sep 13, 2022

With the conclusion of the live tour phase for the SM 1v1 Mew suspect, the SM Council decided to set a qualifying threshold of 7, qualifying smely socks, doc1203, torterraxx, and Trashuny to vote in the suspect!

>>Standings<<

With this being the first instance in 1v1 of live tours being used for suspect reqs, there were naturally some hiccups along the way between making sure we were following proper hosting procedure, alongside finding more adequate scheduling in order to accommodate a broader variety of timezones. Despite these challenges, I would say the tours went quite well! With the tours being mostly full of seasoned 1v1 players, the fears of users like pokemonfan1657 being able to influence old gen tiering were quickly washed away. Additionally, I would say we got a solid variety of people from varying regions to keep from being dominated by solely US East or Europe. With that said, however, there are definitely some potential routes for improvement towards streamlining these tours that were brought up, which I think are worth considering:

- Going by best runs: Similar to what smogtour does, we could take only the scores from someone's best run/s from a week and negate any tours from that week where they didn't do as good. This is namely useful for making sure that there isn't as big of an innate advantage towards players who can be there for almost every tour
- Having more tours: This gives more opportunities to ensure that everyone who wants to play gets to play, and when combined with the above suggestion, ensures that there also won't be as big of an advantage from having a timezone/sleep schedule that allows you to be able to play in every single tour.
- Having more than 2 weeks for tours: While this would be an awkward shift in timeframe from the typical 2 weeks for basically every suspect and potentially runs the risk of feeling like it's dragging on for players, it adds even more tours, such that we can make sure that the best possible players are making it in.

We will definitely be considering these changes for potential future suspects down the line, and in that same regard, we welcome having a discussion with everyone to see what people think about these possible changes, as well as your thoughts and experiences regarding the live tours in general!

Now, moving on to the main announcement, the votes for the SM 1v1 Mew Suspect Test have been cast!

Eligible Voters: 23
Votes: 20

Mew
Ban: 15
Do Not Ban: 5
Did not vote: 3
Ban % = 65.2

Name	Vote
Rosa	Ban
Elo Bandit	Ban
Bopher	Ban
Tol	Ban
Boat	Ban
zioziotrip	Ban
rumia	Ban
Mubs	Ban
Baleblaze	Ban
lancert	Ban
Trashuny	Ban
doc1203	Ban
smely socks	Ban
bea	Ban
LBDC	Ban
XSTATIC COLD	Do Not Ban
STABLE	Do Not Ban
TheShadowClaw	Do Not Ban
gorilaa	Do Not Ban
torterraxx	Do Not Ban
Landon	Did not vote
Satanic Beast	Did not vote
Squirtell 1v1	Did not vote

A 60% pro-ban majority is required for a ban, and the outcome will not be changed by more votes. As a result, Mew has been banned from SM 1v1! Tagging Kris to implement whenever you get the chance.

Tremendous thank you to everyone who participated in the suspect, alongside contributing to the general SM 1v1 metagame by playing it in whichever tours it's available in! And a massive shoutout to Elo Bandit for volunteering to host every single live tour!

dusk raimon · Sep 13, 2022

ive changed my mind dont ban charizard y.

if u cant play around it get better
cope

XSTATIC COLD · Sep 15, 2022

quick post for banning char Y + manaphy:

Why Char Y is broken:
- drought enables it to ohko mons like kyurem, gardevoir, sylveon, togekiss with blast burn.
- stabbed air slash, which can 30% flinch , in addition to deal a lot of damage. Then, if you flinch + blast burn, you win matchup against sturdys(mgnezone aggron crustle) , sableye, altaria, gardevoir, meloetta, and can even beats victini.
- solar beam, free 120 bp with 100% accuracy, which beats all waters like gyarados mega, slowbro, and no ancient power specs manaphy.
- substitute: can increase your chance to avoid a head smash aggron or status move ( sleep powder, thunder wave)
- flame charge enables it to free win vs serperior, and jumpluff with combination of air slash or fire move. You just need 239 speed to outspeed 357 speed serperior with +1.
- char x has a better usage. Thus, players generally think it's char X and not Y. Then, you often have a good mu cause people will be afraid to pick mons like magnezone, victini. Thinking it's X, they pref to pick slowbro, , greninja, manaphy, and SURPRISE MOTHERFUCKER it's Y and you win.

Almost none free counters =>
Terrakion and scarf kyurem black have only 80% winrate cause stone edge miss, same for archeops with head smash.
Crustle has to avoid air slash flinch + not miss rock blast/ wrecker.
Scarf sawk 80% cause stone edge miss. Band sawk has less then 60% win rate cause air slash flinch + stone edge miss. Same for band donphan,
Magnezone 70% winrate cause air slash flinch.

Only four pure counters to char y which are chansey, band garchomp, char x and scarf dragonite (care though to counter zard y into outrage)

That's why i think char y (when you don't know if it's x or y before the battle) is literally busted and should be banned

Of course, if char y is banned we can't let manaphy in the game, because char Y almost is the only counter to manaphy, with specs magnezone and venusaur (which are little played)
It means that manaphy would be more broken than char x, so just imagine a team with char x + manaphy, which beats all the metagame. Just add a steel mon to counter scarf togekiss and gg.
The meta would be insane, with an incredible usage of char x and manaphy in tours, and then losing all interest to play oras.
The goal here is to have a funnier meta, with a greater choice of competitive mons, like sealeo or probopass. Because let's say it, oras is one the best meta and we don't want the meta be like dpp, so let's save oras and ban Char Y + manaphy. And I personally don't want to face only manaphy and zards in every game. I'm the one who struggle for more creativity in games, then show me that you are not a robot who spam only the s+ mons.

For the ones who wanted char x ban, it makes sense but don't forget that if it's banned, victini would be out of control.

Last thing, add me to oras council, unban dom and kick partys over. The game is over for him from ages now.

Itchy · Sep 16, 2022

New BW Samples!
After some behind-the-scenes voting in preparation for BW cup, I am pleased to formally announce we have 5!! new samples

- by DEG

- by Potatochan, DEG, and Itchy

- by Gym socks!

- by Lumii

- by Potatochan, submitted by Itchy

Whaleeeee · Sep 17, 2022

Ban Zard Y so the Meta is actually playable. Back in my day, zards were a 50/50 chance of winning. Nowadays, zard just counters 90% of the meta with cheese and bs. People just build to cuck whatever they most recently played against and its way too simple with zard. it breaks competitive team-building and ruins actual skill in the meta. Because of it, the meta is just boring and uncreative.

Elo Bandit · Sep 17, 2022

I support a Charizard Y suspect in ORAS 1v1.

fast sub (Charizard-Mega-Y) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 16 HP / 240 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blast Burn
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash
- Substitute
Seismic Toss vs. 16 HP Charizard-Mega-Y: 100-100 (33.2 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

:sm/charizard-mega-y:

def sub (Charizard-Mega-Y) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 16 HP / 120 Def / 180 SpA / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blast Burn
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash
- Substitute
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 16 HP / 120 Def Charizard-Mega-Y in Sun: 258-306 (85.7 - 101.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

:sm/charizard-mega-y:

spdef sub (Charizard-Mega-Y) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 240 HP / 4 SpA / 80 SpD / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blast Burn
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash
- Substitute
252+ SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. 240 HP / 80 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 306-360 (85.7 - 100.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Cannon vs. 240 HP / 80 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y in Sun: 282-332 (78.9 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The combination of Substitute and Air Slash allow Charizard Y to bypass its most direct counters a majority of the time. Stone Edge and Head Smash have 80% accuracy. Slow choice band rock types need to land five attacks (one for each sub, plus one for the last 1 hp) and avoid the Air Slash flinch on turn 5.
.8 ^ 5 * .7 = 0.22937 = 22.94%
Sub Air Slash Charizard Y beats slow choiced Stone Edge users 77.06% of the time. If the opponent isn't choiced and doesn't need to land the fifth rock attack, their odds increase to .8 ^ 4 * .7 = 0.28672 = 28.67%.
Let's look at some higher accuracy rock attacks. Rock Slide is a viable option to hit Sub Charizard more reliably, in theory.
.9 ^ 5 * .7 = 0.41334 = 41.33%
Charizard Y is still winning an uncomfortable 58.67% of the time. Let's check again without a choice item (4 attacks vs subs): .9 ^ 4 * .7 = 0.45927 = 45.93%. Still losing for the rock type.
Let's go out of our way and run Rock Tomb with 95% accuracy.
.95 ^ 5 * .7 = 0.54165
The Rock Tomb user is finally winning a slim majority of the time. Let's add a perfect accuracy move to turn 5: .95 ^ 4 * .7 = 0.57015 = 57.02%
Even with every stop pulled out, slow rocks struggle to get barely better than coinflip odds vs Charizard Y. I will point out that fast rock attackers (Terrakion, Archeops, Mega Diancie, Mega Aerodactyl, Scarf Stone Edge Kyurem-B, DD Stone Edge Mega Gyarados) do beat Charizard Y 80% of the time, which is what most players are used to.
I'm kind of ignoring a lot of other things Charizard Y does (ambiguity with X on preview / enabling X, moves like Counter, Wisp, Toxic, Focus Blast, Flame Charge, Endure, Hidden Powers, rock coverage, etc.) and focusing on the fact that with minimal opportunity cost, Charizard Y is beating its most direct counters a majority of the time. Charizard X may be more powerful (winning more matchups, Flare Blitz can't miss), but Charizard Y is the unhealthy and uncomfortably RNG-based element in the metagame.

Whaleeeee · Sep 17, 2022

TFW you convince ELO bandit to shitpost against zard y

DEG · Sep 17, 2022

Elo Bandit said:
I support a Charizard Y suspect in ORAS 1v1.

fast sub (Charizard-Mega-Y) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 16 HP / 240 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blast Burn
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash
- Substitute
Seismic Toss vs. 16 HP Charizard-Mega-Y: 100-100 (33.2 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

def sub (Charizard-Mega-Y) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 16 HP / 120 Def / 180 SpA / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blast Burn
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash
- Substitute
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 16 HP / 120 Def Charizard-Mega-Y in Sun: 258-306 (85.7 - 101.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

spdef sub (Charizard-Mega-Y) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 240 HP / 4 SpA / 80 SpD / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blast Burn
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash
- Substitute
252+ SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. 240 HP / 80 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 306-360 (85.7 - 100.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Cannon vs. 240 HP / 80 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y in Sun: 282-332 (78.9 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The combination of Substitute and Air Slash allow Charizard Y to bypass its most direct counters a majority of the time. Stone Edge and Head Smash have 80% accuracy. Slow choice band rock types need to land five attacks (one for each sub, plus one for the last 1 hp) and avoid the Air Slash flinch on turn 5.
.8 ^ 5 * .7 = 0.22937 = 22.94%
Sub Air Slash Charizard Y beats slow choiced Stone Edge users 77.06% of the time. If the opponent isn't choiced and doesn't need to land the fifth rock attack, their odds increase to .8 ^ 4 * .7 = 0.28672 = 28.67%.
Let's look at some higher accuracy rock attacks. Rock Slide is a viable option to hit Sub Charizard more reliably, in theory.
.9 ^ 5 * .7 = 0.41334 = 41.33%
Charizard Y is still winning an uncomfortable 58.67% of the time. Let's check again without a choice item (4 attacks vs subs): .9 ^ 4 * .7 = 0.45927 = 45.93%. Still losing for the rock type.
Let's go out of our way and run Rock Tomb with 95% accuracy.
.95 ^ 5 * .7 = 0.54165
The Rock Tomb user is finally winning a slim majority of the time. Let's add a perfect accuracy move to turn 5: .95 ^ 4 * .7 = 0.57015 = 57.02%
Even with every stop pulled out, slow rocks struggle to get barely better than coinflip odds vs Charizard Y. I will point out that fast rock attackers (Terrakion, Archeops, Mega Diancie, Mega Aerodactyl, Scarf Stone Edge Kyurem-B, DD Stone Edge Mega Gyarados) do beat Charizard Y 80% of the time, which is what most players are used to.
I'm kind of ignoring a lot of other things Charizard Y does (ambiguity with X on preview / enabling X, moves like Counter, Wisp, Toxic, Focus Blast, Flame Charge, Endure, Hidden Powers, rock coverage, etc.) and focusing on the fact that with minimal opportunity cost, Charizard Y is beating its most direct counters a majority of the time. Charizard X may be more powerful (winning more matchups, Flare Blitz can't miss), but Charizard Y is the unhealthy and uncomfortably RNG-based element in the metagame.

Calculations and numbers are pretty cool and add substances to the arguments/posts but unfortunately not in your case. You have named zero examples when it comes to the cool calculations of sub. I took a minute and went through the VR and like this whole slow banded calculations apply to no mons except Diancie which uses rock tomb. Taking a look at the VR mons (Until B) that use Rock Tomb/Slide to check Zard Y are: Gren, Gyarados, Heatran, Dia, Chomp, Lando-T, TTar, Dragonite, Crustle, Haxorus, Terrakion, and Sawk.

And surprisingly the only mons that care here are Diancie, and Crustle. Greninja, Chomp don't care about sub. Heatran only cares if Focus Blast ( forgotten move, but Heatran may also be Ancient Power so doesn't matter) Lando-T/Haxorus/Dragonite/Sawk usually runs Choice Scarf so they also don't care about sub. TTar runs Dragon Dance. Terrakion is faster, Gyarados runs Dragon Dance. The whole number thing is just decoration and doesn't prove anything. Please, attach examples, I might be missing some mons.

I do agree with the part about stone edge/rock slide/rock tomb miss but Zard X also abuses that (lol) which makes Zard X as unhealthy as Zard Y. Oh yea, your "calculations" can also apply to Zard X instead of Zard Y so I don't really get the point at all here. All this talk about rock moves miss only mattering vs Y when X also abuses the miss just as good as Y is nonsense. + Zard Y misses Blast Burn/Air Slash/Fblast, Zard X don't, if you really wanna dig down that rabbit hole.

I'm still dnb anything but if y'all really wanna do something, I welcome you to a Zard X suspect and not Y.

XSTATIC COLD · Sep 17, 2022

Deg loves Mia khalifa and want ban X.

Unreal.

Elo Bandit · Sep 17, 2022

DEG said:
Calculations and numbers are pretty cool and add substances to the arguments/posts but unfortunately not in your case. You have named zero examples when it comes to the cool calculations of sub. I took a minute and went through the VR and like this whole slow banded calculations apply to no mons except Diancie which uses rock tomb. Taking a look at the VR mons (Until B) that use Rock Tomb/Slide to check Zard Y are: Gren, Gyarados, Heatran, Dia, Chomp, Lando-T, TTar, Dragonite, Crustle, Haxorus, Terrakion, and Sawk.

And surprisingly the only mons that care here are Diancie, and Crustle. Greninja, Chomp don't care about sub. Heatran only cares if Focus Blast ( forgotten move, but Heatran may also be Ancient Power so doesn't matter) Lando-T/Haxorus/Dragonite/Sawk usually runs Choice Scarf so they also don't care about sub. TTar runs Dragon Dance. Terrakion is faster, Gyarados runs Dragon Dance. The whole number thing is just decoration and doesn't prove anything. Please, attach examples, I might be missing some mons.

I do agree with the part about stone edge/rock slide/rock tomb miss but Zard X also abuses that (lol) which makes Zard X as unhealthy as Zard Y. Oh yea, your "calculations" can also apply to Zard X instead of Zard Y so I don't really get the point at all here. All this talk about rock moves miss only mattering vs Y when X also abuses the miss just as good as Y is nonsense. + Zard Y misses Blast Burn/Air Slash/Fblast, Zard X don't, if you really wanna dig down that rabbit hole.

I'm still dnb anything but if y'all really wanna do something, I welcome you to a Zard X suspect and not Y.

You're right that many Stone Edge & Rock Slide users outspeed Charizard (some with scarf). The calculations don't tell the whole story, but they are a step less abstract than a rock png. I was mostly hoping to demonstrate the zard y problem being deeper than "run a rock type lol."

Charizard X does not have the same problem with RNG as Charizard Y. Without Air Slash to flinch them, Rock Sliders are still beating Substitute Charizard X a majority of the time: .9^5 = 0.59 = 59.05%
Charizard Y flinches through its checks, meaning the worse player can get bailed and win.
Charizard Y also misses its imperfect accuracy STABs, meaning that once again the worse player can get bailed and win.
The goal is 'to create a metagame that is conducive to the more "skilled" player winning over the less "skilled" player a majority of the time.' Charizard X fits with this philosophy and Charizard Y does not. Personally I would suspect test both Charizardites, but my focus is clearly on Y for being unhealthy rather than X for being broken.

LRXC · Sep 21, 2022

pqs removed from ADV Council genuinely appreciate your service, new council members soon and other stuff promise (i have been busy guy aaaaaaaaa)

ALSO SOUNDPROOF UNBANNED EXPLOUD HAS BEEN FREED tagging Kris to impliment

titan up

bern · Sep 21, 2022

adv is dying and logan's like "EXPLOUD IS FREE WOOO ISN'T ANYONE EXCITED!?!?" like it shouldn't've taken you this long to unban soundproof lmao.

Marshme1to · Sep 21, 2022

Bernian said:
adv is dying and logan's like "EXPLOUD IS FREE WOOO ISN'T ANYONE EXCITED!?!?"

i am excited

Elo Bandit · Sep 23, 2022

Taking a moment to remember Mew in SM 1v1

Mew @ Normalium Z
Ability: Synchronize
Hidden Power: Bug
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 140 SpD / 104 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunder Wave
- Seismic Toss
- Transform

68 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa-Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 240 HP / 148+ SpD Mew: 338-398 (84.2 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is Mew's best set that pushed the Pokemon over the edge for me. In early August, I said

Elo Bandit said:
Mew does not have any single incredible set that warps the meta or forces extreme levels of counterplay. Mew has sufficient checks and counters, and every alternate Mew set comes with heavy opportunity cost. A team built to tackle Mew's main sets will naturally cover its unsets as well. Having three A+ movesets and a plethora of successively worse B-ish sets does not make this Pokemon broken.

Mew has good set diversity leading to some ambiguity on team preview, but this alone is not enough to justify a ban.

This is the S- rank set I was looking for. It enables Mew to defeat its best checks and counters without significant opportunity cost. Bulky Z-Transform forces too many matchups into RNG-based scenarios with speed ties and full paralysis. I maintain that ambiguity alone is not sufficient reason to ban something, but in Mew's case its 3-4 best sets with minor alterations cover the vast majority of the metagame. Building and clicking against bulky Z-Transform Mew can be a nightmare, especially for newer players.

Mew @ Normalium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 240 HP / 16 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunder Wave / Substitute / Taunt
- Transform
- Seismic Toss / Foul Play / Super Fang

Timid Z-Transform saw an increase in tour usage after I brought it against Kentari in PLIV.
2020 https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1165181865-k0l73cl7ok56n0fiy11n0iiaksgp1papw
2022 https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen71v1-637094
Timid Z-Transform Mew forces an uncomfortable level of RNG with speed ties and Thunder Wave full paralysis.

Mew @ Kee Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Soft-Boiled
- Taunt
- Seismic Toss / Amnesia

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1529990242
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1602231892-chx8nfuzf0jqpm6kwasc8ieu37wnqnepw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1609577257-cuqwg0rzcnx8wrn6n3xxyv3qq4kst9mpw

Mew @ Kee Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 200 HP / 48 SpA / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Soft-Boiled
- Taunt
- Fire Blast

Used to lure Genesect.

Mew @ Kee Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 36 HP / 160 Atk / 92 SpD / 220 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Soft-Boiled
- Taunt
- Low Kick

Used to lure Magnezone.

Spite Kew (Mew) @ Kee Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 240 HP / 48 Def / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Spite
- Roost
- Amnesia

Used to avoid crits after boosting SpDef with Amnesia.

Mew @ Mewnium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 120 HP / 24 Def / 168 SpA / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Skill Swap
- Soft-Boiled
- Icy Wind
- Psychic

Used to beat Dragonite and Primarina.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1654423830-xosjqu1nd42yed5augy9gaus7ezspmrpw

Mew @ Mewnium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 240 HP / 116 Def / 112 SpA / 40 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fake Out / Skill Swap
- Psychic
- Overheat
- Nasty Plot

Used to beat Charizard X and Mega Mawile.
https://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/mew/1v1/

Mew @ Mewnium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 120 HP / 24 Def / 168 SpA / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Icy Wind
- Skill Swap
- Nasty Plot

One of Mew's most popular and important sets, Icy WInd deals with many Dragon- and Ground-types in SM 1v1.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1604163038
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1534955386
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1509664037
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1622984411
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1622984411
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen71v1-637103

Mew @ Mewnium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 160 HP / 80 Def / 160 SpA / 108 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Skill Swap
- Psychic
- Fire Blast
- Blizzard

Swap + Blizzard takes out Dragonite without much investment if you don't mind the accuracy.

Mew @ Mewnium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 240 HP / 12 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Soft-Boiled

Why not take the best of both worlds and combine the offensive power of Genesis with the bulk of Wisp+Recovery?

Mew @ Mewnium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 120 HP / 192 Def / 100 SpA / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rock Tomb
- Psychic
- Soft-Boiled
- Skill Swap

Given that Skill Swap is typically preferred over Fake Out to steal abilities rather than break them, Rock Tomb is a neat option over Icy Wind to hit Charizard and other Fire-types harder.

Mew @ Psychium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 12 SpD / 56 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Reflect
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Taunt / Light Screen

Mew defeating physical Dark- and Fire- types was a big nail in the coffin for many pro-ban players.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1534518422-ygcymug9vz0stkpmriviyj84qtpohu5pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1559566647-zhqes8jgv3b0m69qmcyxghhnboj8ep0pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1604657877-g4h6wmdksh9fx0un2nke5apl27uw5uzpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1604659701-48dydb8outgyovqrmnl1b6n1taou6rupw

Mew @ Psychium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 136 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Reflect
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Soft-Boiled

Calm Mind Mew fell off in usage the last few years, but still packs a punch with boosted Psychic behind Reflect.

Mew @ Psychium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 16 HP / 196 SpA / 224 SpD / 72 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Skill Swap
- Aura Sphere
- Overheat
- Psychic

Z-Skill Swap Mew is a fascinating tech that can get around a few counters. Z-Swap into Aura Sphere beats Greninja; Z-Swap into Overheat beats Serperior.

Mew @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Barrier
- Roost
- Taunt
- Amnesia

Rocky Helmet Mew is a great option to beat physical fire types expecting to beat Wisp sets.

Rocky (Mew) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 240 HP / 16 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Tomb
- Bulk Up
- Taunt
- Soft-Boiled

Though Rocky Mew never really saw use outside of roomtours, the theoretical implications of combining speed control, taunt, recovery, and anti-physical / anti-charizard attacks are fairly interesting.

Mew @ Groundium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Rock Tomb
- Earthquake
- Taunt

Groundium Z Mew saw a spike in usage during PLV:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1513981005
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1529398358
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1549649304-metsfq29e7zgyuiga2i6hprmmdl0hvjpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1535590027

Mew @ Poisonium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Rock Tomb
- Bulk Up
- Taunt / Outrage

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1524945900-m72d2ps4ehij1x4akuq0nik2iwhhbtdpw

Mew @ Electrium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 188 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled
- Taunt
- Seismic Toss

Bopher's anti-Greninja Mew.

Mew @ Life Orb
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 4 HP / 156 Atk / 96 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Gunk Shot
- Flare Blitz / Rock Tomb
- Ice Punch / Earthquake

Life Orb Mew always fascinated me because of its sheer number of coverage options. How cool that a Pokemon could run mixed, Gunk Shot, Overheat or Flare Blitz, Sucker Punch, ground coverage, ice coverage, anti-charizard or anti-anything else really. A fun set to build around, not as much fun to build against.

Mew @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 184 SpD / 64 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Outrage
- Rock Slide
- Leech Life / Zen Headbutt

Lures Greninja, Serperior, and Charizard.

Mew @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 16 HP / 124 SpA / 224 SpD / 144 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Overheat
- Aura Sphere

Lures Greninja, Serperior, and Sub Kartana.

Mew @ Choice Specs
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Overheat
- Dark Pulse

Blows up Genesect, Landorus, and most opposing Mew.

Mew @ Choice Band
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 32 HP / 120 Atk / 156 Def / 200 Spe
Impish Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- Superpower
- Rock Tomb
- Earthquake

Knocks out Mega Tyranitar and non-Bulk Up Zeraora.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1603580832

What a versatile and fascinating Pokemon! I'm sad to see it go, but I look forward to new players being able to breathe in the tier again.

I've updated the SM 1v1 Set Comps to reflect Mew's removal.
Extended: https://pokepast.es/27b1845567cae804
Condensed: https://pokepast.es/c4544979118af1be

fake tom numbers · Sep 28, 2022

this post is made to fix the adv doc (wrote this at midnight expect mistakes)

I won't mention every mon, just mostly viable ones unless it's a really small mistake, other stuff like jirachi I won't be doing bc I can't find a benchmark and I sent very important notes on discord so if it's not here it's there ~~also if it doesn't say what it does I won't do it~~

get rid of every aero set except for band and liechi who is using anti mence (mence rolls btw)

band armaldo has an extra spdef ev so just put it into atk for rolls against mence (still lives modest zard (real) 252+ SpA Charizard Blast Burn vs. 152 HP / 24 SpD Armaldo: 278-328 (84.4 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)

tbh armaldo should just bulk timid zard and put the rest of the evs into atk for rolls against mence but w/e

sd armaldo is weird since it bulks zapdos which is dead so I made a new set:

SD (Armaldo) @ Leftovers
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 240 HP / 52 Atk / 160 Def / 56 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Rock Blast
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Earthquake

to get hp bug is pretty weird since you either have to sacrifice 1 atk and hp iv or 1 spdef iv and speed iv so I chose the latter since it doesn't need the speed. I'm not going to learn how to actually do that stuff so if I did this wrong please tell me

evs: lives ada choice band aero (252+ Atk Choice Band Aerodactyl Rock Slide vs. 240 HP / 160 Def Armaldo: 297-350 (84.6 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery) and has a 6% chance to live 2 tbolts from raikou ( 252 SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 240 HP / 56 SpD Armaldo: 161-190 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery ) while the rest is dumped into atk for rolls vs mence

toxic gengar (very important set) has an extra speed ev

get rid of jimmy neutron jirachi 1. it sucks and 2. zapdos is dead

leech seed venu (real) overbulks gross meteor mash so just remove 1 hp ev

dodrio does not bulk zam (252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 0 HP / 28 SpD Dodrio: 221-261 (84.6 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO) so just slap a hp ev in there and it should be fine

I had a whole paragraph of what was happening with dnite but I lost all of it :/ so I'll just do a recap without any calcs so just trust me (most of it is on discord)

basically comp dnite sucks it doesn't outspeed scept and it doesn't live zam ice punch. I had a good set that was going in the right direction where i bulked zam i bulked tauros but I didn't outspeed scept so I asked mrextrazy ~~and murman but he kept ranting on why dnite sucks so that didn't help~~ and he said that I should drop the zam mu and outspeed sceptile. and finally:

Dragonite @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 172 HP / 84 Atk / 36 Def / 4 SpD / 212 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Hyper Beam
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute

pretty proud of this set since every single ev is needed here. bulks tauros (252 Atk Choice Band Tauros Hyper Beam vs. 172 HP / 36 Def Dragonite: 309-364 (84.6 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) outspeeds sceptile after a dd, breaks 252 def raikou's sub after a dd (+1 84+ Atk Dragonite Hidden Power Flying vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Raikou: 81-96 (25.2 - 29.9%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery) and finally bulks 252+ spatk raikou's hp ice (252+ SpA Raikou Hidden Power Ice vs. 172 HP / 4 SpD Dragonite: 309-364 (84.6 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)

this took 2 hours

mixed def leech overbulks both ursa and regice so you can put the hp ev into speed or somethin idk

just add this scope lens set please no one is using bulky raikou which has a 87% chance to ko aero

Raikou @ Scope Lens
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 224 Def / 68 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Rest
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind

lives jolly aero eq outspeeds 350's and the rest is dumped into spatk so it can kill aero (put the same spread for pp stall raikou)

Salamence @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 112 Atk / 152 Def / 240 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Brick Break
outspeeds 85's like articuno, bulks metagross with optimized hp, rest in atk. at least add this as an altspread because blissey is running counter 99% of the time.

altspreads aside there are a few changes that should be made
anti blissey should run 208 HP / 144 Atk / 144 SpD / 12 Spe (you can move the speed elsewhere) to live ursa hbeam and bliss ice beam and still ohko with +2 brick break
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Ursaring Hyper Beam vs. 208 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 324-382 (84.5 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Blissey Ice Beam vs. 208 HP / 144 SpD Salamence: 323-380 (84.3 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
these evs should basically be the same as bulky band tbh since it supposedly lives the same things (I'm not calcing it but the evs look different fsr)

anti raikou (just name it dd it's the most common spread) overbulks raikou so the optimized evs should be 248 HP / 188 Atk / 4 Def / 16 SpD / 52 Spe instead of 28 spdef (252 SpA Raikou Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 16 SpD Salamence: 333-392 (84.7 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)

why is fast blissey not fast, better evs are 248 Def / 84 SpA / 176 Spe so that it outspeeds 252 wak (which is why the set exists smh)

dude who made these sets it's just lies + hera sucks L

overbulked should be 164 spdef not 172 spdef for standard spdef

make return the main move (without any slashes) and aerial ace. unironically, the best celebi set rn

Gyarados @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 184 HP / 100 Atk / 20 Def / 204 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Flail
- Hidden Power [Flying]

252+ SpA Blissey Thunderbolt vs. 188 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 319-376 (84.6 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Ursaring Hyper Beam vs. 188 HP / 24 Def Gyarados: 319-376 (84.6 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
almost identical to the normal sub flail except it lives ursa now

ada band tauros should invest 1 spdef ev into hp for rolls against gross (still lives +1 zam +1 252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 124 HP / 84 SpD Tauros: 272-321 (84.4 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)

this post also gives me an excuse to talk about the current meta
STALL ~~is overrated~~
in adv there are a few types of stall. subseed, pp stall, full stall and semi stall is what I categorize them in. subseed is self-explanatory, the most prominent being sceptile, while celebi and jumpluff are niche options. semi stall is basically covering one stat but not the other. this is basically cm mons that have more pp/rest. this includes blissey, regice, vaporeon, regirock and cm mons like zam, raikou and jirachi. then we have full stall, which is boosting both defensive stats, which include cradily and registeel. finally we have pp stall, which is really only used by raikou and 1% of aerodactyl's.
:registeel:

these guys suck. they do 0 damage and basically pp stall you while being vulnerable to a crit the whole time which is horrible in a more haxy gen. I see a lot of roomtours with randoms spamming 2 stallmons like these and when no one else is bringing good teams it's bound to work which makes the meta look bad. but in a more competitive environment, there's at least 2 mons that answer them, and there's always that 1/16 chance they'll lose
:sceptile:

only good subseed mon. really fast which is what you want from a subseed mon unlike celebi and jumpluff which suck. really good for cteaming since you can invest a ton of evs into beating stupid stuff like kingdra and zard. in addition you have the petaya sets which add even more pressure on preview
:vaporeon:

only good semi stall mons. blissey and regice are crit bait but they have counter for physical mons which is really good. they also have a ton of bulk and can ev stuff for things like ada band aero??? actually decent when I started using them. vaporeon is probably the most consistent stallmon, beating gross, ursa, wak and a ton of other stuff. plus one of the only stallmons that does decent damage
:raikou:

raikou on paper isn't that good, but in practice it actually is. basically it's a stallmon that beats other stallmons, and in a meta dominated by them, raikou thrives. it can run pp stall for eq mons like gross, band mence, etc. and can run scope lens with cm to beat every single stall mon (excluding sceptile)

there's 15 other stallmons but there's only 5 viable ones in total (and the viable ones can run offensive sets). I think this is why people think adv is a bad gen, but it's mostly because you have to cover a wide range of threats, and when you have bad teams and don't have an answer to them, it just makes the experience horrible since you're just sitting there 100+ turns waiting.

also

frogfacts · Sep 28, 2022

Tom1535 said:
get rid of jimmy neutron

Hating on the goat

LRXC · Sep 28, 2022

Excited to add deddd , Justdelemon and Opchurtle100 to the ADV 1v1 Council!

Forgive my recent deadness, we will have things updated before the ADV 1v1 Cup starts!

Signups are here!

Euphonos · Sep 30, 2022

[tagging PA to edit the DPP op]

Good day, everyone! Time to make some updates for DPP 1v1!

Just so everyone knows that this ~~forsaken~~ metagame is still alive, I have updated the sets compendium (for past reference, here) and I am actually putting up this one as for all of the explanations of such sets. With the council kind of inactive which puts this explanations sheet on hold for quite a long time, I am seeking help to everyone involved about some of the past sets in the past set compendium and the EVs used to such extent. I also put some of the past sets that are not deemed good in the current DPP 1v1 meta on the shelf, so if you still plan on using them, use it at your own risk.

Anyway, feel free to message me on Discord: Euphonos#9726 if you're willing to help out on the explanations to certain sets and sets worth shelving, among others.

Murm · Oct 8, 2022

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1t1HON4-rWv-DBXQhKEr9qOMisQ0ECFGS4mCRVrOw9Hk/edit

So I wrote an in depth GSC Dragonite analysis. I plan on doing more of these, Dragonite is one of the hardest ones so other mons shouldn't be as bad. If you have knowledge on GSC 1v1 and if you'd like to help write some of these let me know! This is just a for fun thing, I don't think it'll be official or anything. Hope you guys enjoy it!

Murm · Nov 10, 2022

Hey its me, Murman, here with a post about everybody's favorite 1v1 gen, RBY. I've been looking into it for fun a lot recently, and I'd figure I'd share some of my thoughts and findings on certain things.

Elo Bandit said:
S Rank
Tauros
Exeggutor
Snorlax
Jolteon
Alakazam

A Rank
Slowbro
Starmie
Articuno
Zapdos

B Rank
Electrode
Chansey
Gengar
Golduck
Rhydon
Moltres

First I just wanted to bring up a couple things about the "established 15" or whatever, basically the S through B ranks on the current VR (seen above).

Tauros
- Body Slam
- Hyper Beam
- Blizzard
- Earthquake / Thunderbolt / Fire Blast / Leer
Just wanted to say the bull can definitely afford to run whatever in the last slot. Of course the main thing is EQ for Gengar and helping a bit against Jolteon, but Tbolt is nice for Waters and Articuno, Fire Blast is nice for Articuno and the mirror, and Leer and Sub might do something.

:rb/snorlax:

The fact that this thing actually has preview pressure is a very unique ability, since it has two very different sets.

:rb/zapdos:

All I gotta say about Zapdos is run Thunder, this actually allows you to beat Tauros, which is huge.

:rb/electrode:

Electrode is cool because its an Electric that beats bulky mons and Jolteon with Screech + Hyper Beam right? Well not really, it actually has about a 40% chance to do this, due to Screech and Hyper Beam accuracy, and its super high chance to crit which completely ignores the onslaught of yelling it had to do. The one thing it does have is the ability to beat Tauros with Reflect, but its not even that good at that, with its low stats and Earthquake weakness. Unfortunately, Ball just isn't that good.

:rb/moltres:

Moltres is actually very solid, beating Tauros and having good matchups with its super strong, 30% burning Fire Blasts.

Alright now for the real reason I wanted to make this post. I recently went through every single fully evolved mon in RBY to see if they had a niche. Yes every single one. It was pretty fun, let me know if I missed anything here. I'll split these into two groups: the mons that are actually pretty good, and the mons that are barely usable.

Venusaur
- Toxic
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Razor Leaf

Venusaur is a very cool mon, since its pretty much the only mon that can reliably beat all the Amnesia users. Unlike Eggy, it threatens Poliwrath and Golduck with a strong auto-crit Razor Leaf. Now of course this comes with the tradeoff of having the Poison typing. Having the Poison typing is basically just a hinderance, preventing it from beating Psychics like Alakazam, and even making it 4x weak to Jolteon's Pin Missile.

:rb/persian:

Persian
- Slash
- Hyper Beam
- Body Slam
- Screech

Now this one is definitely a bit ambitious, since its trying to compete with almighty Tauros himself, but Persian has a few tricks up its non-existent sleeves, being Slash, which always crits, and Screech. These tools allow it to get past many Pokemon that try to beat Tauros by boosting their defense, like Chansey, Slowbro, and Amnesia Snorlax.

:rb/primeape:

Primeape
- Submission
- Rock Slide
- Screech
- Substitute

Primeape is a very solid Pokemon in RBY 1v1 believe it or not. Its niche is pretty simple: use Rock Slide to beat Articuno and Moltres, and use Screech + Submission to beat Snorlax and Chansey. Its fairly solid, and I've used it on a good amount of teams.

:rb/poliwrath:

Poliwrath
- Blizzard
- Submission
- Amnesia
- Substitute / Rest

Poliwrath is basically worse Golduck, but it stands a chance against Snorlax and Chansey. Now its not flawless, as Submission isn't a very reliable move, and you can get Countered if you are not careful, but Poliwrath has a unique niche among the Amnesia users.

:rb/golem:

Golem
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Body Slam
- Substitute

Tbh I didn't look much into this one, but it might just be better than Rhydon. It has worse stats all around besides Speed sure, but Rhydon doesn't really need any of its stats to win the matchups it wins. All it normally needs is its typing, so Golem might be a good alternative which has a little extra speed to beat Rhydon itself.

:rb/electabuzz:

Electabuzz
- Thunderbolt
- Hyper Beam
- Screech
- Body Slam

The main reason I wanted to do this. Electabuzz has a lot of the tools that Electrode has, which made me want to look into it. Electabuzz trades being able to beat Tauros with Reflect (which is admittedly a very good trait) in exchange for being much better against everything else. Its higher stats around the board besides Speed allows it to tank hits better to allow it to set up Screech, and its much higher Attack stat allows it to not even need as many Screeches as Electrode for many matchups. Not needing to run Reflect also allows Electabuzz to run Body Slam to help make those matchups even more secure, though it can definitely run other moves in its last slot.

:rb/lapras:

Lapras
- Blizzard
- Ice Beam / Surf / Thunderbolt
- Reflect
- Rest

Lapras may seem underwhelming compared to the other Water types in the metagame, primarily Starmie and Golduck, but its massive bulk along with its Water/Ice typing and access to Reflect allows it to serve as an excellent Tauros counter and anti-Water. Its typing allows it to handle Water types like Slowbro and Golduck well, and spam Blizzard and/or Ice Beam to freeze. Thunderbolt is also a very solid option over Ice Beam to win these matchups, though it is not necessary a lot of the time. Its 4x Ice resistance also comes in handy against Snorlax and Chansey, allowing it to fish for freezes there too.

Charizard
- Fire Blast
- Hyper Beam
- Body Slam / Counter
- Swords Dance

I'll go quick with these. Charizard is basically worse Moltres but it can handle Alakazam with SD + Hyper Beam. It also beats Primeape which is cool.

:rb/raichu:

Raichu
- Thunderbolt
- Surf
- Thunder Wave
- Rest

Worse Jolteon but beats the Rocks woo.

:rb/sandslash:

Sandslash
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Substitute / Rock Slide
- Toxic / Rock Slide

Sandslash is a cool option over the Rock/Grounds, as it can beat Rhydon and also stand a chance against Exeggutor.

:rb/machamp:

Machamp
- Submission
- Earthquake
- Leer
- Toxic

Machamp sucks, it doesn't even have a winning matchup against Tauros (~43% chance to win for Machamp iirc). However, it can handle Snorlax, Chansey, and Jolteon, which is cool ig.

:rb/tentacruel:

Tentacruel
- Surf
- Blizzard
- Acid
- Swords Dance

This is a fun one. Tentacruel has some amazing stats, with its 100 base Speed and 120 base Special. This set basically is a water that can beat Chansey and have a good chance to beat the Amnesia users with the combination of Swords Dance and Acid. Yes Acid. Acid is a physical move in this gen, and it has a 33% chance to drop the opponent's Defense, so it can actually break through a lot of Amnesia users, especially since they usually opt for Ice Beam which Tentacruel resists.

:rb/hypno:

Hypno
- Psychic
- Body Slam
- Meditate
- Rest

Its a slow Psychic that can match up somewhat well into other Psychics

:rb/lickitung:

Lickitung
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Rest

Its kinda garbo but it can kinda beat Snorlax and Chansey ig.

:rb/jynx:

Edit: Forgot Jynx before but its kinda fine ig, good typing but has competition and its just too frail

Raticate has Super Fang but basically does nothing over Tauros

:rb/nidoqueen:

Tbh I wasn't sure where to start with the Nidos, besides the fact that Queen was probably better than King for its extra bulk, but the speed from King might help somewhere idk. It has a wide movepool, but its stats are just mediocre.

:rb/cloyster:

Cloyster cannot differentiate itself from Lapras without Boom and Clamp from OU. Its a lot less Specially bulky, and only a tiny but more Physically bulky due to its low HP.

That's it. Thanks for reading.

Elo Bandit · Nov 18, 2022

Every old gen of 1v1 in two minutes each:

*The VR council bumped Porygon-Z up to S- on the very last day of SwSh.

100 SM 1v1 Sample Teams! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LrkCwh8qmZ1pld0hVWQYwIxclJF7kjj3QhzPOjRWMLw/edit#gid=0

In Gen 6 and earlier, Rocky Helmet, Rough Skin, Iron Barbs, and Aftermath deal recoil damage to attackers before the holder gets hurt.

In Gen 5 and earlier, Steel resists Dark and Ghost!

Grass types in ADV 1v1 - https://pokepast.es/b6ed7c3d5db8e265
ADV 1v1 Discord - https://discord.gg/kGR2z55DF7

GSC 1v1 Discord - https://discord.gg/raczeGhrcr

RBY is full of quirky mechanics. For instance, recovery moves fail if (user's maximum HP - user's current HP + 1) is divisible by 256. Why does this happen?
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1410870380-778xnno6u1pv7vg9cuz6bbjnbgk7ndhpw Turn 35
https://glitchcity.wiki/Recovery_move_glitch
RBY 1v1 Discord - https://discord.gg/7f7sQ3RCqv

Thanks for watching!

Metagame 1v1 Old Gens

Retirement house

winter fan account

*sip*

Banned deucer.

Banned deucer.

Banned deucer.

live a villain, die an icon

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winter fan account

Banned deucer.

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ADV 1v1 Pioneer

A breathtaking sight!

youtube.com/ EloBandit

formerly Tom1535

Banned deucer.

ADV 1v1 Pioneer

'wag kayong mainis; mahal ang patis

gmurm

gmurm

youtube.com/ EloBandit

sip