Metagame 1v1 Old Gens

[neomon]

Hi,

the council has unanimously voted to ban sleep in ADV 1v1. We discussed it for quite some time if the better option was just banning jumpluff, or pluff and jynx but other sleepers have proven to be just as problematic (venusaur, breloom and even stuff like rapidash and ursaring, just to name a few) Quote Alakazam and idk who else to tag honestly. if there's any questions (which i seriously doubt since this has been long overdue) please feel free to ask

regarding pressure i cant say we will or even can do anything that solves the entire issue but we will do our best to figure it out in the coming weeks

also vr update soon and proper sample sets aswell n_n

 

[Alakazam]

Hi,

the council has unanimously voted to ban sleep in ADV 1v1. We discussed it for quite some time if the better option was just banning jumpluff, or pluff and jynx but other sleepers have proven to be just as problematic (venusaur, breloom and even stuff like rapidash and ursaring, just to name a few) Quote Alakazam and idk who else to tag honestly. if there's any questions (which i seriously doubt since this has been long overdue) please feel free to ask

regarding pressure i cant say we will or even can do anything that solves the entire issue but we will do our best to figure it out in the coming weeks

also vr update soon and proper sample sets aswell n_n

Add the banned sleep moves to your post in the front of the thread, it’ll probably be implemented soon (just need to talk to people)

edit: also w/ pressure just look at individual abusers and suspect any Pokemon that is too much for the metagame speed-wise imo

 

[pqs]

some vr noms for the the best generation gen 7. pls dont kill me uwu

B+ -> A- i really like this mon and i think the whole community has been asking for this. cotton guard + roost + return/hypervoice + confide/fireblast is the best set by far. you can call it 4mss but i think its mostly just flexibility and can fit on a lot of different teams. especially the mystery of confide or fire blast forcing a 50/50 sometimes on the opponent's team is really nice.

B+ -> B / B- i think this has deserved a drop for a while. metagame shifts like gyarados and zard y have going higher on the stats is what makes me think this.

B+ -> B this has been a problem imo for a while. ttar had hit its stride when zygod got released and it had that awesome iron defense + ice beam set that murdered zygod (you can still use but not as viable), but it's just been going on a downward slope from there. also, i dont think it is as good as some of the other pokemon in b+ like garchomp and genesect.

B -> B+ lol i really have a love/hate relationship with this pokemon, i used to think it deserved lower but after using it on ladder a LOT i have concluded that it is really good and i like it. beating every s rank very reliably is awesome, as well as the unpredictability of porygon2 being able to run either foul play or toxic really plays mindgames on your opponent.

B- -> C+ this seems really out of place with some of the other b- pokemon like deoxys-s, kyurem, and bulu all being better than it. i think it should go down.

creds to AllFourtyOne for helping me w noms

 

[Kaif]

The Immortal please implement the adv sleep ban :]

 

[187 Fan]

The ORAS council got completely shifted. I took over the ORAS council and from now on will try and make this metagame the best that it can be with LittleRunnerXC and Robyn. We started working on changes VR wise and will release them once we finish them. They will, for sure, go up before PL starts.

 

[Alakazam]

The ORAS council got completely shifted. I took over the ORAS council and from now on will try and make this metagame the best that it can be with LittleRunnerXC and Robyn. We started working on changes VR wise and will release them once we finish them. They will, for sure, go up before PL starts.

Make a regular blaziken Resuspect if real

 

[Alakazam]

Old Gens Announcements
USUM
As the transition to Gen 8 has gone (relatively) smoothly, its time for the previous Gen to gain some independence. USUM will have five new(ish) council members consisting of:

Rosa
Nalei
Alakazam
Squirtell 1v1

annndddd someone else! We're opening up the floor for people to make their case as to why they think they should be in the USUM VR council.

We will be looking at several qualities: the most important ones will be experience in USUM, activity, and maturity, but one can also show previous experience in leading a metagame, or anything else they can think of that may show that they are the right choice. Theres no hard deadline on the decision, as the next few days will have a lot of other events going on (Mew Suspect, PL Captain Signups), but we'll let people know when a decision is made. Post in this thread to make your case, no one liners or w/ever

ORAS
Similar to USUM, ORAS also is in need of a 5th councilmember. ORAS council already has a few people in mind, but if anyone here thinks they can show that they have the experience, activity, and maturity to deserve a spot in ORAS, then post here as well.

Lastly, ORAS council would like to know what people think about a potential regular Blaziken resuspect. Regular Blaziken was previously voted to be banned during a triple suspect, where Mega Salamence, Mega Blaziken, and regular Blaziken were being suspected. While the votes for Mega Salamence and Mega Blaziken were overwhelming, regular Blaziken barely got the banhammer, with only a couple votes deciding it. Seeing as the suspect test conditions were quite unusual (3 suspected mons at a time, Mega Blaziken potentially grouping regular Blaziken into its vote), we would like to ask other players experienced in ORAS what they think and why. Obviously anyone can respond to talk about this, but it'll be kind of obvious if you know what you're talking about or not. Again, no official deadline, but if theres an overwhelming consensus either way we'll probably decide before PL.

 

[pqs]

owo, i'll try to apply for sm council

reasons

experience in usum: Well I've been very active on PS since early gen 7, like right before deod ban. I've participated in almost every sm-related tour since two years ago and I went 4-1 in my most recent. (wc) Also, I'm currently a gen 7/8 1v1 qc which would definitely need a lot of experience and trial to get.
activity: I'm on about at least 6 hours a day on weekends, and can usually fit in 3 or so hours and weekdays. life? what's that? As i've said before I've participated in a lot of tours as well as gen 7 metagame discussion and viability rankings.
maturity: Yeah i know i have my ups and downs with maturity but i've been looking to be better in the past months and have been able to lead some community projects in gen 8 along with writing analyses. i'm also friends with 4/5 of the community if that counts.
experience in leading a metagame: I led AAA 1v1 at the end of gen 7 and (tried) to make it semi-active again since it had been really dead before but it died out like a lot of other metagames at that time. National Dex 1v1 is also currently being lead by me and i'd say i'm doing a fairly good job at it, the discord is very active and i haven't done anything hugely wrong (yet).

 

[Waylaid]

I'd like to apply for SM council. While I'm not one of oldest members of the Showdown! community, I've definitely earned my stripes as an active member through activity in the 1v1 room, activity on discord, and participation in almost every tour available to me during my time in SM. I've also demonstrated my investment in 1v1's meta with my participation in both the Mew and Dragonite suspects. As a generally helpful and not incredibly edgy user, I would consider myself a fairly mature member of 1v1 (admittedly, the bar is very low). I created and co-lead NFE 1v1 with Malcom24, and while NFE 1v1 has yet to be featured in a tour, I'm planning on fixing that after the Spring tour circuit. In terms of other qualifications, I consider each member of the SM council a friend of mine; I would be easy to work with and feel less reserved while brainstorming because of my familiarity with them. I'm not sure how to end this. Peace!

 

[Jamez155]

Applying for SM council
My experience with sm 1v1: I joined somewhere in the earlier of sm 1v1, and played almost every sm tour that I’ve been able to sign up for. I’ve done really well in many of these tours like World Cup going 3-2 and making it to finals with the East team both times. I’ve also done well in the 1v1 Ladder tournament placing 4th in that tournament. One other place I did amazingly well on is the gen 7 1v1 ladder, having at one point the highest peak ever reached in gen 7 1v1 which has been recently broken but I’ve had the highest peak for little while being 1950. I am very experienced with gen 7 with all the tours I have played and all the ladder games I’ve played with high level of skill being high ladder at most times

My activity: i am on for a while almost every day, I have lots of free time on weekends and some time in the evening/night time of weekdays est

My Maturity: yes I have struggled with a select few ppl in the past, I seem to be doing much better now and am looking to keep improving my maturity.

Experience in leading: I do not have much experience with leading things, but I plan on starting up and leading Community Create a team for gen 8 1v1 after the mew suspect as quote said I can maybe start it up after the suspect.

 

[Synonimous]

Applying for SM council
Experience: I'm the DPP TL and on the ADV council, and play every old gen. I made LT semis and did well in SM, as well as contributing to analyses. I have a ton of metagame experience and can coordinate tiering for old gens pretty well. I've worked with Mace/Nalei on sets (kinda) and Ryy on the program so I understand the strengths and weaknesses of everything well.

Activity: I'm a little less active than I used to be but still on at least once a day. I'm experienced with smogona nd very active on discord.

Maturity: I'm a chill dude. I've written tons of analyses and haven't really raged or done anything notably stupid.

Experience in leading: stated above.

 

[Kaif]

council applications lol like TheShadowClaw wasn't the most accomplished player of gen7

 

[ggopw]

Put me in Sm and maybe back in oras

I have too much experience with sm and how it works seen by my record in tt and individuals, i am mature and id like to genuinely help with the tier.

Oras wise id like to say that the council needs a few people that actually played when it was main gen its like that in any non super ancient ou old gen so if not me someone else that's played then please.

Regarding blaziken as i stated above none of these people to my knowledge played a single game of oras where blaziken was allowed and everyone else who did play played ages ago(i dont even rmr games with it, just the suspect) so there is no good way of testing it, for example deo-d was allowed in tournaments and used quite frequently so 'quick suspecting' (no actual tests, just people voting) was reasonable. Idk how would u guys go about this except blind voting based on theorymoning, there is no oras ladder and unbanning a mon randomly for the upcoming pl just to 'test' would be weird and potentially catastrophic. Also as a side note ive only seen us east players wanting this suspect literally no one else.

 

[DEG]

On Blaziken;
Dom and I,

The thing about blaziken is A) the current council has literally never played when oras was the main gen beside TDA OR when blaziken was allowed and b) it was already banned and c) the fact that it's pretty much a cheese mon. This mon realistically adds pretty much nothing to the tier. Not to mention it can cheese literally every single mon from S to A+ rank. With the right set it can tech any great mon it wants (besides like meloetta but u could probably run some insane papaya set). I don't think blaziken will be "standard" enough to have a specific set and instead just go around and cheese as many top mons as it can. Yes there's a lot of opportunity cost to run suboptimal sets to cteam top mons but realistically like 5 years after ORAS is done I don't see why we should do a move like this that really imo could only make the meta a little worse. I'm down to revisit the banlist but I like how we're talking about this thing but I don't think Blaziken specifically is worth adding back.

 

[TheShadowClaw]

Applying for SM council:

Experience:
SM is the tier where I started to play 1v1. Since 2018 I’ve been enjoying the meta with enough tour-experience and success too. I would never let my team down and therefore I’ve won one Premier League and two World Cups almost flawless. This gen I’ve also nominated a variety of Pokémon that have made it in the VR-Ranking (Mega-Aerodactyl, Chandelure, Scolipede). I will always try to look for new strategies and being able to vote for them would therefore be amazing.

Activity:
You can find me online at least an hour per day, including the discord. While I’ve have taken a break last year, I noticed that my return was sooner than expected (this due to PL III), within 2 months. I expected to grow more socially IRL and I have, but not much as I expected which is fine. I got a job that puts me tight on certain days but I’m available around them.

Maturity:
Well, the 1v1 room had(/has?) this much faith in me that I was appointed Roomdriver for a couple of months. Furthermore I’ve only seen people like me and I’ve never created a fight with anyone. I’ve also captained a WC tour in 2018 and won that tour (and I hope to be PL captain this year). The two years that I’m around in this community have had a large influence on me, as I’d never think to grow this much on an online platform.

 

[Synonimous]

New DPP VR + Sample teams are up!

Changes

Infernape S- -> A+
Metagross A -> A+
Raikou A -> A+
Shaymin A- -> A
Kingdra B+ -> A-
Tangrowth B -> B+
Registeel B- -> B
Togekiss B- -> B
Regice C -> C+
Weavile C -> C+
Aerodactyl C+ -> B
Alakazam C+ -> B-
Ambipom UR -> B+
Drifblim UR -> C-
Electrivire UR -> B-
Honchkrow UR -> C

 

[Alakazam]

USUM VR Council!

Heyo, voting for the last member of the USUM VR council has finally ended. It was a tough choice, but in the end we found the person we needed.

Introducing Dire Strait as our last VR member! Dire Strait is a well known community member in 1v1, joining during Gen 7 and quickly making a name for himself on ladder, utilizing unorthodox strategies like Mono Fire and ahead-of-its-time Tapu Bulu/Ambipom cores to great success, peaking at a 4 digit ELO rank. 1v1's very own Greek soldier was kind of the obvious choice, when compared to the submissions, and he will provide excellent insight into USUM now and forever. What is your name, soldier? <3


...

Okay, the real choice

Punked again, we actually chose three people for USUM VR, totaling to 7 USUM VR members! Not joking this time.

Congratulations to:
Elo Bandit
TheShadowClaw
and pqs
for being the final USUM VR members! We realized having 7 members would be better for USUM, because even as an Old Gen it needs a massive amount of upkeeping, considering its size, diversity and popularity. All three of these players have shown resourcefulness, skill, activity, and necessary maturity to handle being a member of USUM VR. We think they will be excellent in maintaining the activity for projects to come, like with creating more sample teams.

It legitimately was a very hard choice to narrow down the final few members for the VR council, the people who applied all had the necessary skill to judge a Pokemon's viability in USUM, and we ended up having to vote with scaling voting (ranking people 1, 2, 3, etc) to figure out who would be the best choice. I thank everyone who applied, and I hope that just because you weren't selected today doesn't deter your commitment to the metagame.

 

[Alakazam]

ORAS VR Announcement

Elo Bandit and Whaleeeee have both been added to ORAS VR council. They are sure to use their years of ORAS knowledge to benefit the resources available for ORAS uwu

 

[Kaif]

USUM VR Council!

Heyo, voting for the last member of the USUM VR council has finally ended. It was a tough choice, but in the end we found the person we needed.

Introducing Dire Strait as our last VR member! Dire Strait is a well known community member in 1v1, joining during Gen 7 and quickly making a name for himself on ladder, utilizing unorthodox strategies like Mono Fire and ahead-of-its-time Tapu Bulu/Ambipom cores to great success, peaking at a 4 digit ELO rank. 1v1's very own Greek soldier was kind of the obvious choice, when compared to the submissions, and he will provide excellent insight into USUM now and forever. What is your name, soldier? <3


...

Okay, the real choice

Punked again, we actually chose three people for USUM VR, totaling to 7 USUM VR members! Not joking this time.

Congratulations to:
Elo Bandit
TheShadowClaw
and pqs
for being the final USUM VR members! We realized having 7 members would be better for USUM, because even as an Old Gen it needs a massive amount of upkeeping, considering its size, diversity and popularity. All three of these players have shown resourcefulness, skill, activity, and necessary maturity to handle being a member of USUM VR. We think they will be excellent in maintaining the activity for projects to come, like with creating more sample teams.

It legitimately was a very hard choice to narrow down the final few members for the VR council, the people who applied all had the necessary skill to judge a Pokemon's viability in USUM, and we ended up having to vote with scaling voting (ranking people 1, 2, 3, etc) to figure out who would be the best choice. I thank everyone who applied, and I hope that just because you weren't selected today doesn't deter your commitment to the metagame.

dont sleep.

 

[187 Fan]

ORAS VR-Update
As promised in the announced of reviving the ORAS council we updated the VR properly before the PL.

Rises

S- - S
A - A+
A- - A
A- - A
B+ - A-
B - B+
B - A-
B- - B
B- - B
C+ - B-
C - C+
C - B-
C - B-
C - C+
C- - C
C- - B-
C- - C
C- - C
C- - C
C- - C

Drops

S - S-
A+ - A
A - A-
A - A-
A- - B-
A- - B+
A- - B+
A- - B
B+ - B
B+ - B
B - B-
B - B-
B - B-
B- - C+
B- - C+
C+ - C
C - C-
C - C-
C- - D
C- - D

One explanation for the big Chansey drop: It lost its major set which is Charm+Seismic Toss because it was recently discovered that this combo isnt achievable in a legal way.
The VR is updated properly.

 

[DEG]

ORAS VR-Update
As promised in the announced of reviving the ORAS council we updated the VR properly before the PL.

Rises

S- - S
A - A+
A- - A
A- - A
B+ - A-
B - B+
B - A-
B- - B
B- - B
C+ - B-
C - C+
C - B-
C - B-
C - C+
C- - C
C- - B-
C- - C
C- - C
C- - C
C- - C

Drops

S - S-
A+ - A
A - A-
A - A-
A- - B-
A- - B+
A- - B+
A- - B
B+ - B
B+ - B
B - B-
B - B-
B - B-
B- - C+
B- - C+
C+ - C
C - C-
C - C-
C- - D
C- - D

One explanation for the big Chansey drop: It lost its major set which is Charm+Seismic Toss because it was recently discovered that this combo isnt achievable in a legal way.
The VR is updated properly.

Can we get an explanation about the rise and drops in A and S ranks cause a lot of these changes don't make sense at all, there's no obvious reasons as to why mega gyarados and Meloetta dropped and why kyub / mega alt / VICTINI rised

 

[ggopw]

also m gallade & serp same rank as emp and chans + durant and sciz sharing landos rank
lol

 

[Alakazam]

Can we get an explanation about the rise and drops in A and S ranks cause a lot of these changes don't make sense at all, there's no obvious reasons as to why mega gyarados and Meloetta dropped and why kyub / mega alt / VICTINI rised

so which of the noms do you want an explanation for? I can give my thoughts, can't speak for everyone else

 

[Kaif]

so which of the noms do you want an explanation for? I can give my thoughts, can't speak for everyone else

why mega gyarados and Meloetta dropped and why kyub / mega alt / VICTINI rised

 

[lost heros]

As well as Talonflame and Deoxys-S ruseand Do

ORAS VR-Update
As promised in the announced of reviving the ORAS council we updated the VR properly before the PL.

Rises

S- - S
A - A+
A- - A
A- - A
B+ - A-
B - B+
B - A-
B- - B
B- - B
C+ - B-
C - C+
C - B-
C - B-
C - C+
C- - C
C- - B-
C- - C
C- - C
C- - C
C- - C

Drops

S - S-
A+ - A
A - A-
A - A-
A- - B-
A- - B+
A- - B+
A- - B
B+ - B
B+ - B
B - B-
B - B-
B - B-
B- - C+
B- - C+
C+ - C
C - C-
C - C-
C- - D
C- - D

One explanation for the big Chansey drop: It lost its major set which is Charm+Seismic Toss because it was recently discovered that this combo isnt achievable in a legal way.
The VR is updated properly.

Wow these are some interesting changes that could definitely use some explanations.

has virtually no answers to prominent Steel-types like Mega Mawile, Mega Metagross, Heatran, and Aegislash. It's most prominent set is Choice Scarf, and it's other options, like Choice Band, Choice Specs, WP, or Haban, doesn't make up for what it loses or only half succeeds in what it sets out to do. Furthermore, KyuB has a serious Stall problem. Mega Sableye, Mega Slowbro, can easily wall and stall its sets and any moderately bulky pokemon like Mega Gyarados and Mega Blastoise can all easily live hits and respond back.

Calcs

I don't exclusively reference "real" sets and EVs in favor of showing benchmarks.

Mega Mawile
4 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mawile-Mega: 158-188 (51.9 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 494-584 (126.3 - 149.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Teravolt Kyurem-Black Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 124 SpD Mawile-Mega: 256-302 (84.4 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Special Defensive Mawile can easily tank Earth Power and KO with Iron Head/Play Rough



252 SpA Choice Specs Teravolt Kyurem-Black Earth Power vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Metagross-Mega: 258-304 (84.5 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 414-488 (105.8 - 124.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Low benchmark can easily tank Specs EP and can KO back with Mash + BP on any bulky variant


Heatran uses Air Balloon while KyuB is almost always choiced.
252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 127-150 (39.3 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-Black: 236-282 (60.3 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Aegislash typically uses WP. So a Earth Power from KyuB will just end in it being OHKO'd, while any other move will do next to nothing.

252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Blade: 94-111 (29 - 34.2%) -- 99.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Mega Sableye

Turn 1 Prankster Will-o-Wisp will neuter any physical attacks from scarf. And Sableye can shrug off mispredicted Ice Beam. Band and Specs sets also get punished hard by metal burst sets.

Mega Slowbro

is bulky.
252 Atk Choice Band Teravolt burned Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowbro-Mega: 119-141 (30.2 - 35.7%) -- 37.7% chance to 3HKO

Mega Gyarados

Mega Gyarados can benchmark to survive the 2HKO from Fusion Bolt from Scarf and 2HKO with Outrage.

-1 252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 104 HP / 104 Def Gyarados-Mega: 150-178 (42 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Mega Blastoise

Lives and Counters. Or against the common Naive Scarf, Fake Out + Dragon Pulse also will win,
252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blastoise-Mega: 228-270 (76.2 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

so which of the noms do you want an explanation for? I can give my thoughts, can't speak for everyone else

Mega Altaria, Kyurem-B, Victini, Talonflame, Mega Gyarados, and Meloetta