Resource 1v1 Sword and Shield Viability Rankings

Nalei

girl oo
is a Pre-Contributor
It’s like worse Jirachi
Besides ignoring that Jirachi wins tons of matchups without rng, this sums it up
Another Liepard set, based around tricking a choice scarf and prankster copycat is fun. Dark pulse beats Jirachi and pult. Copycat beats things like kyurem.
252 SpA Liepard Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 254-300 (80.1 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Liepard: 457-538 (169.8 - 200%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 SpA Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Liepard: 301-355 (111.8 - 131.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
Besides ignoring that Jirachi wins tons of matchups without rng, this sums it up

252 SpA Liepard Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 254-300 (80.1 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Liepard: 457-538 (169.8 - 200%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 SpA Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Liepard: 301-355 (111.8 - 131.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
They just miss...?
 
Phantump @ Eviolite+Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Substitute
- Curse

Phantump to S+, he's literally just 10x better than trev in sm, Phantump's sheer infinite power makes him able to hold multiple items at once, tanking hits easily and having infinite recovery.
Also, he just can't be taunted, Phantump keeps his cool.
 
Jolteon @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Charm
- Confide
- Rest
- Toxic

Jolteon from UR to A+. It's the best stall mon in the current meta with amazing 65/60/95 bulk and an ability to lower both attacking stats. Its high speed allows it to usually lower the opponent's damage output before they even attack.
 
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maaan why tf is dracovish not s tier?? it 2hkos mimikyu after a play rough miss, outspeeds and kills iron ball darm, iron ball jira, and all sylveon sets. also hello?? if it outspeeds you get a free 382.5 bp move. its broken. god everyone but me is braindead!!! braindead!!! i swear to god!! make me tl. thank you for reading, and if you disagree with me then become the dirt i walk on. inferiors.
 
I made an awful YouTube vid for VR. I wanted to talk about the VR and my changes to it.
It's very long and has bad compression, especially near the end so sorry for that. I plan to do one of these each time the meta shifts or I make a batch of changes, hopefully future vids won't be nearly as long but I wanted to cover everything in this one.
 
Hi All,
Long post ahead with my thoughts on all of the mons ranked S to B-, giving my viewpoints on their positions and justifying why I believe they should rise / fall / remain the same. From B- onward I'll only comment on mons that I feel should rise / fall beacuse I don't see a point in justifying all the mediocre mons in a mediocre ranking. Not going to touch on mons that should be unranked because that sparks discussion that isn't as important as the more pressing matter of mons in the upper viability bracket

This took a long time so please do feel free to agree / disagree as that's what the VR is for, don't forget that even though there's a council it's a big community thing

Key:
  • Bold and green = rise
  • Bold and blue = stay
  • Bold and red = fall

S Rank
:Mimikyu: Mimikyu – Rightful position. Huge utility, great typing, broken ability, difficult to scout but by no means an impossible mon. The staple face of an S rank threat

S- Rank
:Darmanitan-Galar: Darmanitan-Galar – Proof that predictability doesn’t equate to viability. Only utilises two main sets but does so extremely well with the tools it has thanks to gorilla tactics. There’s lure room with stuff like belly drum, but scarf + band place this mon at the perfect spot in S-

:Jirachi: Jirachi – Scarf makes this mon annoying but more relevant are the bulky sets that have shown up in premier league, with calm mind / iron defence + stored power sets gaining usage and proving to be annoying to deal with. Like mimikyu with great versatility and typing, but nowhere near to the same extent. Sits well in S-

A+ Rank
:Dracovish: Dracovish – Same deal with darm. Mainly utilises scarf and band, but roseli / haban are also nice lures that can do the job. Despite the meta being quite prepared for this mon, its sheer power allows it to still hold a dominant position which can’t be ignored when building. A+ is great here


:Sylveon: Sylveon – Great natural bulk, mono-fairy isn’t bad by any means in this meta, hits really hard with pixilate and has capacity to break down majority of fat mons with either yawn + fake tears or specs. Does what it needs to do very well, A+ is its home.


A Rank
:Dragapult: Dragapult – I’m glad this mon has dropped. Nothing has dramatically changed about its sets or what it does, but the developing meta has seen rises in mons like Primarina and Avalugg always made me question where this mon was meant to sit. Like it in A


A- Rank

:Arcanine: Arcanine – I personally would want to advocate this mon for A, but personal opinion and use doesn’t justify where it sits in the metagame. Great utility with bulk wisp sets and access to annoying moves like burn up and snarl. Offensive is also a really good option which hasn’t been explored much, boasting an impressive offensive movepool with coverage options such as outrage, bulldoze and play rough. Intimidate is always a great ability and only aids arcanine in the matchups it likes being in. Great in A-


:Corsola-Galar: Corsola-Galar – Does exactly the same thing now as it did day one of swsh. A-


:Corviknight: Corviknight – Similar to Corsola but with some developments in EVs and items. Taunt / roost / iron defence / iron head is without a doubt the staple set, but has many other options within its movepool to explore and maybe work with as the metagame continues to develop. Fat with awesome typing, recovery, and taunt to break down mons fatter than itself. Staple A- pokemon


:Crustle: Crustle – Another mon that sits perfectly in A-. Sturdy will never be a bad ability in 1v1, but what makes it great is the mon its paired with. Crustle utilises sturdy and boasts respectable attack which is ideally paired with choice band, or an item to support the shell smash set such as lum berry, mental herb or hard stone. I really like the lum shell smash set and think this mon has great matchups against a good majority of S to A threats.



:Haxorus: Haxorus – I love this mon so much and wish I could advocate for its rise, but A- is where it belongs. I find taunt / sd / outrage / quake haban is probably its best set at the moment, being able to break past bulky threats like corviknight, arcanine, corsola and rotom-wash whilst luring in dragons like dracovish, dragapult and hydreigon and also mons with dragon coverage such as zeraora. Scarf and band are also great, being able to outspeed opposing scarfers like darm and in general just break lots with band. Strong mon, great stats, great abilities (unnerve is cool tech for the with scarf berry dragons and band for berry fairies).


:Incineroar: Incineroar – This is a tricky one. I think that it still does exactly the same thing that It did pre necrozma ban, but now it does those things worse without necrozma around, alongside the decline in dragapult and the rise of primarina. Still good, but I think this mon should move from A- to B+


:Primarina: Primarina – This mon is insanely good right now. It doesn’t do anything special, but what it does do it does extremely well. Amazing typing both offensively and defensively, with the potential to distribute evs to make primarina fill in specific roles or be extremely solid in majority of matchups. Calm mind / encore is being explored and I feel this will become a very good set, alongside the already great existing sets of bulky mystic water / chilan, specs, the rare av / scarf, and weird lures like icy wind rindo. I think the PL usage says a lot for this mon as well. W1 - #12, W2 - #5, W3 - #4, W4 - #1, W5 - #1, W6 - #3. Not to associated usage with viability, but It’s relevant to mention. Prim is extremely good and I feel should move from A- to A+


:Sawk: Sawk – The Karate Kid sits nicely in A-. Not much to say about this mon, definitely too good for B+ but nowhere good enough for A. Does what you need it to do without much variation, a good meta pick


:Whimsicott: Whimsicott – Cheese alone can’t make this mon better than it already is. A- is nice and can be unpredictable with the right berry at team preview. A very splashable mon that can easily patch up holes in your team. Having moonblast access is nice and a viable choice for some specific wins, but in general taunt is much better, allowing it to cheese fat stuff. Disgusting but warranted in A-


:Zeraora: Zeraora – I feel this mon has more potential than what has been shown. Band is standard and very good, though I feel as if scarf and bulk up both have a lot of untapped potential. Scarf only needs 24 evs to outpace scarf rachi, which allows for 252+ adamant in attack and plenty of room for bulk. It reliably beats darmanitan, dracovish, dragapult, corviknight, haxorus, primarina, opposing zeraora, cinderace, togekiss, excadrill and more that I could mindlessly list. When you couple this with band and bulk up sets, I honestly feel as if zeraora’s potential is being slept on and thus would like to see consideration for A to be made, however A- is also completely warranted and also an appropriate spot for it.


B+ Rank
:Aegislash: Aegislash – Struggles in this meta. The nerfs aren’t the only factor but they do make a contribution to aegi’s lacklustre kill potential. This mon really needs boosts to muscle past the plethora of fat threats within the meta right now, almost forcing it to run weakness policy for better matchups and capacity to ko. Swords dance exists which is mediocre, and choiced sets have the same problem being that they just don’t kill. Almost want this at B, but I think what it does beat is enough for B+


:Avalugg: Avalugg – Avalugg is extremely good right now. Iron defence muscles past majority of physical threats, and choice band straight up deletes a plethora of strong mons like mimikyu, darmanitan, excadrill, whimsicott, zeraora, aegislash and cinderace. Mirror coat access is also nice on band but I find it can be easily scouted and feel as if quake is better for broader matchups. The T H U G G is very deserving of a raise from B+ to A-


:Cinderace: Cinderace – Strong mon with some nice tools under its belt. Sub liechi is naturally its best set, but band is nothing to be scoffed at either and even scarf can be useful on the right team. A prime example of a B+ pokemon


:Excadrill: Excadrill – Can be very strong or very shit depending on the matchup, which is why I don’t like this mon in general. Always being able to beat whimsicott as a steel is nice with rapid spin given that most whimsicott in this meta run babiri, but I feel as if there are definitely better scarfers and band breakers to use. SD isn’t a bad set but in general is lacklustre in comparison to haxorus, which I feel does the same thing but better with taunt. Yeah exca is a great fairy answer, but feels like it lacks in many other components. Probably stays comfortable in B+


:Hydreigon: Hydreigon – This is a great pokemon that’s capable of running many viable sets which can be difficult to determine at team preview. Taunt / nasty plot is an amazing breaker set, with haban and scarf / specs also within its pool of great sets. Needs some momentum behind it before people jump on to this thing and it becomes a threat to be accounted for in building. Can’t do jack against fairies, but neither can most of the other dragons. I think this warrants a rise from B+ to A- at the very least, with really solid potential to possibly rise further


:Kyurem: Kyurem – I hate this pokemon. I think that it’s weak in comparison to other dragons running around and it has bad defensive tying which isn’t good for a mon that wants to pressure stall. Chople glaciate sets are cool lures, but overall this mon is still unexplored and doesn’t know its place in the meta. A drop from B+ to B would best suit


:Mandibuzz: Mandibuzz – Sits well here at B+. Prankster immunity is always a good thing to have alongside great bulk with a taunt that doesn’t need much speed investment, freeing up evs for more important things. Foul play is an amazing move which it boasts over corvi, but I think that general susceptibility to fairies hurts it a bit. If you could find a pokemon next to the word solid in the dictionary, this would be it


:Togekiss: Togekiss – Ironically continues to be used as a scarf flinch mon when it has much greater utility with nasty plot + thunder wave. Has untapped potential (which Nalei has discovered ooooo) but can be very shaky in a lot of matchups at team preview. Perfect for B+


B Rank
:Aromatisse: Aromatisse – People don’t know how to use this, nor do they typically know how to play against this. Definitely one of the sleeper threats of this meta, but not difficult to account for either. Good fit in B


:Blastoise: Blastoise – A little unexplored. Wacan counter and shell smash sets have the potential for blastoise to maybe rise in the future, but for the current meta there’s nothing wrong with it in B.


:Conkeldurr: Conkeldurr – Not bad but not great either. Amazing physical bulk allows for it to do very well against opposing physical threats with its own band / flame orb set, but that’s about the gist of it. I don’t think AV is a good set for conk, it needs to be able to break stuff. B material in the current state


:Golisopod: Golisopod – Needs something to help it back on its feet. It has stupid bulk and very respectable attack, but makes me wonder why you’d want this over something along the lines of crustle / arcanine / sawk etc. I’d advocate for a drop from B to B-, poor offensive typing doesn’t help it out either.


:Grimmsnarl: Grimmsnarl – Hasn’t changed what it does since pre-home. Did it alright back then, however certainly doesn’t do it as well now. Too many threats around for it to do its unique thing. Same deal with Golisopod, B to B-


:Kommo-o: Kommo-o –A unique mon but doesn’t have the tools to stay a threat worth noting in this meta. Hoping that there’s a great set yet to be discovered as this is a really cool mon with neat typing, but for now I think it stays in B


:Milotic: Milotic – Tricky where to place this. Flame orb + marvel scale gives milotic some very respectable bulk, which can be further enhanced with coil and stall out fat mons with recover / rest. I think the problem is that milotic needs the opportunity to do what it wants to but often doesn’t have the turns or the passive recovery to keep up with hard hits. Cool mon, decent in B


:Rhyperior: Rhyperior – I love this pokemon but there are far too many threats around which don’t allow it to invest in attack and break walls like it wants to. Very lacklustre when you compare it to crustle as they largely do similar things yet rhyperior finds itself having to always be careful of raw ohkos. Might regain a niche in the future, but right now B to B- would be appropriate


:Rillaboom: Rillaboom – This mon is definitely too low. Drum beating is such a strong and useful move, which when coupled with leech seed + a combination of protect / sub / taunt gives you a really versatile mon that can win matchups you wouldn’t expect. Offensive sub liechi is nothing to laugh at either, with coverage in earthquake and capacity to hit super hard with +1 in overgrow territory. Would definitely raise this mon to B+


:Rotom-Heat: Rotom-Heat – I think this mon is underrated. Typing is amazing offensively with the added bonus of resisting fairy, allowing it to take on mons like primarina, corviknight, mandibuzz, venusaur, rillaboom and whimsicott. Electroweb is some cool tech which can improve mimikyu matchup vastly, and sub is great vs avalugg and sylveon. Nasty plot, specs, scarf and life orb are all great sets which easily gives this mon a comfortable slot within B+

:Rotom-Wash: Rotom-Wash – Similar to rotom-heat with what it does. Beats a lot of the same mons but can more reliably run a great set of wisp + kee berry. Can’t muscle past grasses like heat can, but heat can’t run wisp kee as well as this either. Water is a much better defensive typing. Wash can also run all the same sets with similar results. I’d also place rotom-wash in B+


:Snorlax: Snorlax – I’ve explored band a bit and think that’s the set I like the most, even though belly drum + yawn is neat but I feel as if it relies a bit too much on sleep turns. Ridiculous bulk great coverage, but not amazing either. Fine within B


:Steelix: Steelix – The result of what happens when people jump on a mon and explore the possibilities. Weakness policy and torment have come up, with torment being able to beat any choice mon which is definitely notable. The problem I have with that is that you then surrender yourself to many more poor matchups, which overall I feel would have been better if you’d just run band. New tools have stopped it from dropping but I don’t think they’ll make it rise either. B


:Tyranitar: Tyranitar – An amazing pokemon for the right team, but has extreme 4mss and can’t ever be ev’d for everything it wants. Bad defensive typing which is where lots of evs have to be bulk invested to cover up its many weaknesses, but offensively it hits hard in return if you can manage to stomach one. Definitely a pokemon for the more creative builders, but not one which holds general metagame relevance. B is fine


:Weezing-Galar: Weezing-Galar – This mon is under the radar. Ability is amazing which allows it to reliably beat dracovish, darmanitan, sylveon, avalugg and most mimikyu while also matching up quite well vs other high ranked mons. Typing is good both offensively and defensively, but the ability + movepool allows for specs to be a super solid set worthy of pushing weezing up to B+


B- Rank (As stated at the start I’m only going to comment on the mons that I think should rise / fall from here until the end of the VR. Not going to bother with putting mons into UR because people always complain about those when there are more pressing matters to discuss)
:Goodra: Goodra – This one is personal bias, but goodra has a very versatile movepool and great lure potential with laser focus + acid spray. Plenty of room for specific sets to patch up elements of otherwise lacking teams, though really needs some creative thinking. A bit like tyranitar in that sense. Would recommend B


:Keldeo: Keldeo – I think keldeo is really bad right now. It’s outclassed as both a bulky water and an offensive water. Scarfers outpace it easily, and having scarf itself leaves much to be desired regarding kill potential. Specs patches up that problem but lacks coverage. I’d want to see this in C+


C+ Rank

:Diggersby: Diggersby – A bit more personal bias here but much more justified, but this mon is definitely B- material. Choice band is extremely strong, much stronger than its other normal type banded counterpart bewear. Swords dance + laser focus + giga impact + earthquake / gastro acid is great and leaves plenty of room for item variety, whether that’s silk scarf for immediate breaking potential or something along the lines of lum for fatter threats that you need to sd against like arcanine or kee rotom. Can also sd + laser focus into corviknight because nobody right now is going to be taunting a diggersby with corvi. Gastro acid is niche but I feel obligated to mention it for its matchup vs stall, specifically type:null (sorry VG)


:Type-Null: Type: Null – People are starting to see the potential in this mon. Dummy fat and can’t get crit, so now there’s nothing else for you to blame your losses on when you ultimately lose the bo5 in seasonal to the random that brought a level 1 togedomaru. Unfortunately it’s completely shut down by taunt and is susceptible to encore, but not being able to get crit is huge when you’re using stall mons. Definitely better than its current rank, B- is appropriate


C Rank
:Venusaur: Venusaur – Sub petaya is an underrated set that should definitely be putting venu a step above everything it’s surrounded by down here. Hard countering whimsicott is always nice, and can be a stally shit itself with leech seed. Just feels too low considering what it’s already shown, could like to see C+
 
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Maki's Fox

luckiest player around
Aromatisse – People don’t know how to use this, nor do they typically know how to play against this. Definitely one of the sleeper threats of this meta, but not difficult to account for either. Good fit in B
I just had to comment on this considering this is on my most used pokemon, but yeah I agree with your thoughts about this moreorless. Aromatisse in my opinion is overlooked way too much considering how well it is matches up against some of the most prevalent pokemon like Mimikyu, Sawk, Haxorus, Dragapult, etc. With proper play, Aromatisse can put unsuspecting status move users like stall Rotom-Heat, Milotic, and Corsola into an Encore lock, allowing you to eventually KO them with a double struggle Encore Disable. In my perspective, people just don't spend any effort on learning how Aromatisse works, as shown by the many mishaps/misplays during this PL where matchups would be lost due to unoptimal sequence of actions. B is a good start for Aromatisse, but I feel like it could be pushed to B+ or even A- if people decided to learn using the pokemon and explore its other possible sets.
 
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UR --> C
S/o to Potatochan789 for sending me both the Ludicolo sets and excellent teams to go along w/ them.
Ludicolo @ Kee Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 240 HP / 92 Def / 176 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Encore
- Giga Drain
Ludicolo @ Sea Incense
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 120 HP / 184 SpA / 60 SpD / 144 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rain Dance
- Encore
- Surf
- Leaf Storm
Ludicolo @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 204 Def / 160 SpA / 144 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rain Dance
- Encore
- Hydro Pump
- Leaf Storm
I originally only saw this thing as a meme but it's actually quite good. Ludicolo has quite a unique typing that is not weak to much and it has very useful resists backed up by solid 80/70/100 defenses. The obvious question is why use this thing over Rillaboom or other grass types for that matter. Two reasons, Ludicolo has encore; this is unique excluding Whimsicoot. The second is water typing which is cool for Darms, Rotom-H, and other fires & ices.
70 is a solid speed tier for what it wants to do, which is beating stall mons and other waters. There is no better way to convey this than just going through the VR.
Set dependent
S Rank
:Mimikyu: Mimikyu Ludi wins against Mimikyu w/ Encore t1. A t1 attack will just proc Kee berry and leave Mimikyu susceptible to Leech Seed stall and Kyu's 90 attack isn't killing. Substitute means Mimikyu loses 50% HP and it'll be unable to Curse and instead will just get chipped by Drain and Leech. Trick means Ludi can get up seeds then Protect once Encore is over and act from there.
S- Rank
:Darmanitan-Galar: Darmanitan-Galar Band Giga Impact will kill unless you're like 252 252+ but that sounds like an unset but it does beat scarf and the rare zen.
:Jirachi: Jirachi Both stall and scarf lose to Rain Dance but only scarf loses to Kee.

A+ Rank
:Dracovish: Dracovish Vish is doing zilch and will just get chipped down.
:Sylveon: Sylveon Sylveon will just kill you, there isn't any reason to click a move that could be Encored.

A Rank
:Dragapult: Dragapult maybe LO Rain Dance could beat Sub+Disable but ehhhh it's unreliable

A- Rank
:Arcanine: Arcanine all arcanine sets lose to all ludi sets
:Corsola-Galar: Corsola-Galar Encore seed chip skewers this thing
:Corviknight: Corviknight taunt rip
:Crustle: Crustle Rock Wrecker is doing to much but if they ss t1 against your Rain Dance you win
:Haxorus: Haxorus The choice sets lose but that SD set that's been floating around wins
:Incineroar: Incineroar does too little to kee and straight up dies to rain dance
:Primarina: Primarina dies to giga before ludi dies
:Sawk: Sawk leech chip
:Whimsicott: Whimsicott moonblast kills
:Zeraora: Zeraora it can't touch ludi

B+ Rank
:Aegislash: Aegislash Aegi just dies to leech chip as it's slower
:Avalugg: Avalugg lugg isn't doing enough and encore beats recover
:Cinderace: Cinderace L
:Excadrill: Excadrill drill isn't doing enough
:Hydreigon: Hydreigon special attackers zzz
:Kyurem: Kyurem if it's freeze dry you explode
:Mandibuzz: Mandibuzz rain dance encore
:Rotom-Wash: Rotom-Wash get drained
:Togekiss: Togekiss please go to the shadow realm

B Rank
:Aromatisse: Aromatisse can't encore it and leech isn't enough
:Blastoise: Blastoise water type
:Conkeldurr: Conkeldurr bouncing off
:Golisopod:Golisopod if goli only has first impression as only bug stab vs protect kee
:Grimmsnarl: ?Grimmsnarl? not sure
:Kommo-o: Kommo-o can't touch kommo-o
:Milotic: Milotic water type
:Rhyperior: Rhyperior adios
:Rillaboom: Rillaboom nuh uh drum beating kills you
:Rotom-Heat: Rotom-Heat hydro pump go brrrrr
:Snorlax: Snorlax band doesn't run giga impact
:Steelix: Steelix physical stabs are both resisted and this thing's spdef is awful
:Tyranitar: Tyranitar hydro pump go brrrrr
:Weezing-Galar: Weezing-Galar special poison stab

B- Rank
:Bewear: Bewear I've never seen it but it'll just get chipped down
:Chandelure: Chandelure hydro pump goes brrrr
:Dracozolt: Dracozolt stronk
:Duraludon: Duraludon draco is unresisted
:Durant: Durant bug stab
:Ferrothorn: Ferrothorn you can't touch ferro
:Gastrodon: Gastrodon grass stab
:Gengar: Gengar poison stab
:Goodra: Goodra special mon that doesn't care about chip
:Keldeo: Keldeo grass stab and evs are specifically for this

C+ Rank
:Celebi: Celebi you can't touch this onion
:Darmanitan: Darmanitan fire type and trick is ineffective
:Diggersby: Diggersby not strong enough
:Gardevoir: Gardevoir specs gard wins but not scarf
:Gyarados: Gyarados if gyra lacks taunt
:Terrakion: Terrakion silly terrak
:Togedemaru: Togedemaru you can get flinched but you should win w/o flinches
:Type-Null: Type: Null encore and seed chip

C Rank
:Alcremie: Alcremie you can't encore it
:Appletun: Appleton mike wins something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:Bisharp: Bisharp ig if it has taunt it could win?
:Centiskorch: Centiskorch hydro pump go brrrrr
:Cloyster: Cloyster screw your ice stab
:Crawdaunt: Crawdaunt grass stab
:Dubwool: Dubwool encore
:hitmonlee: Hitmonlee encore + seed chip
:Inteleon: Inteleon bad mon
:mamoswine: Mamoswine ineffective stab
:Ninetales: Ninetales hydro pump goes brrr
:Ninetales-Alola: Ninetales-Alola freeze dry
:Obstagoon: Obstagoon bad mon
:Reuniclus: Reuniclus magic guard is bad news
:Scrafty: Scrafty mediocre mon
:Silvally: Silvally I don't think anything beats all silvally sets but the most popular is water and you should win
:Toxapex: Toxapex bad mon
:Toxtricity: Toxtricity poison stab
:Umbreon: Umbreon encore
:Vaporeon: Vaporeon grass stab
:venusaur: Venusaur poison stab

C- Rank
:Araquanid: Araquanid very weak outside of water moves which are 4x resisted
:Cobalion: Cobalion if cobal has taunt
:Copperajah: Copperajah bad mon
:Eiscue: Eiscue bad mon
:hippowdon: Hippowdon grass stab
:Indeedee-F: Indeedee-Female this thing wins a mu?
:Pyukumuku: Pyukumuku grass stab + encore
:Sirfetchd: Sirfetch'd brave bird
:Virizion: Virizion idk

D Rank
not going to bother explaining these :afrostar:
:Charizard: Charizard
:Drampa:
Drampa
:Eldegoss: Eldegoss
:Espeon: Espeon
:Hatterene: Hatterene
:Mudsdale: Mudsdale
:Orbeetle: Orbeetle
:Quagsire: Quagsire
:sudowoodo: Sudowoodo
:Trevenant: Trevenant
:Tsareena: Tsareena
:Turtonator: Turtonator
:vikavolt:
Vikavolt
:Weavile: Weavile
:wishiwashi-school: Wishiwashi
Edit: VR is now filled out, there are some inaccuracies I’ll be fixing
 
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Me when I see a team 3-0ed by Weavile:
1586287046983.png


:Weavile: D -> B-

With the sheer amount of choice users in the meta currently, Weavile is an excellent counter and has one set to deal with a majority of the VR.

Weavile @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Substitute
- Spite / Taunt
- Foul Play / Icicle Crash
This set is pretty simple, protect and substitute to run the opponent out of pp. Most choice users will not have a lot of pp, so pressure stall beats non scarf users easily. Spite beats most stall pokemon, Taunt beats all the other stall pokemon, and Foul play deals with setup physical attackers. Icicle crash for dark/fighting types.



How it stacks up against S-> B- in VR:

:Mimikyu: - Beats setup sets, curse, and band, loses to scarf
:Darmanitan-galar: - Beats band (which is more common)
:Dracovish: - Beats band and adamant scarf
:Arcanine: - Beats stall and life orb/band
:Corsola: - Wins
:Corviknight: - Wins
:Haxorus: - Beats band
:Sawk: - Beats band (which is more common)
:Whimsicott: - Wins
:Aegislash: - Wins
:Avalugg: - Wins
:Cinderace: - Wins
:Excadrill: - Beats all non scarf
:Hydreigon: - Beats specs
:Kyurem: - Wins
:Mandibuzz: - Wins
:Rotom-Wash: - Wins
:Blastoise: - Wins
:Milotic: - Wins
:Snorlax: - Wins
:Tyranitar: - Wins
:Weezing-Galar: - Wins
:Bewear: - Wins
:Dracozolt: - Beats band and adamant scarf.
:Duraludon: - Wins
:Durant: - Wins
:Ferrothorn: - Wins
:Gastrodon: - Wins
:Gengar: - Wins
:Goodra: - Wins

I didn’t feel like going through the whole VR, but it beats a lot of the lower ranked mons too.
 
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Me when I see a team 3-0ed by Weavile:
View attachment 234911

:Weavile: D -> B-

With the sheer amount of choice users in the meta currently, Weavile is an excellent counter and has one set to deal with a majority of the VR.

Weavile @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Substitute
- Spite / Taunt
- Foul Play / Icicle Crash
This set is pretty simple, protect and substitute to run the opponent out of pp. Most choice users will not have a lot of pp, so pressure stall beats non scarf users easily. Spite beats most stall pokemon, Taunt beats all the other stall pokemon, and Foul play deals with setup physical attackers. Icicle crash for dark/fighting types.



How it stacks up against S-> B- in VR:

:Mimikyu: - Beats setup sets, curse, and band, loses to scarf
:Darmanitan-galar: - Beats band (which is more common)
:Dracovish: - Beats band and adamant scarf
:Arcanine: - Beats stall and life orb/band
:Corsola: - Wins
:Corviknight: - Wins
:Haxorus: - Beats band
:Sawk: - Beats band (which is more common)
:Whimsicott: - Wins
:Aegislash: - Wins
:Avalugg: - Wins
:Cinderace: - Wins
:Excadrill: - Beats all non scarf
:Hydreigon: - Beats specs
:Kyurem: - Wins
:Mandibuzz: - Wins
:Rotom-Wash: - Wins
:Blastoise: - Wins
:Milotic: - Wins
:Snorlax: - Wins
:Tyranitar: - Wins
:Weezing-Galar: - Wins
:Bewear: - Wins
:Dracozolt: - Beats band and adamant scarf.
:Duraludon: - Wins
:Durant: - Wins
:Ferrothorn: - Wins
:Gastrodon: - Wins
:Gengar: - Wins
:Goodra: - Wins

I didn’t feel like going through the whole VR, but it beats a lot of the lower ranked mons too.
I'll give this a shot but B- is looking like a stretch
 
Incineroar A- -> A
Two sets:
Incineroar @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 184 HP / 52 Atk / 252 Def / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Taunt/fake out
- Bulk Up/flame charge
- Darkest Lariat

Incineroar @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Atk / 92 Def / 180 SpD / 232 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flame Charge/iron head
- Darkest Lariat
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat

incineroar is very anti meta rn
the only mons that win are primarina,rotom wash, non band crustle, and non scarf non jolly dracovish in S-B+ tiers
other S/A mons lose to 5-6 or even more
S Rank
:Mimikyu: Mimikyu first wins with predicts second wins guranteed

S- Rank
:Darmanitan-Galar: Darmanitan-Galar both sets beat scarf first beats band
:Jirachi: Jirachi both sets win

A+ Rank
:Dracovish: Dracovish first has a favorable roll from jolly scarf and i kill with outrage
-1 252 Atk Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 184 HP / 252+ Def Incineroar: 336-396 (89.1 - 105%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
:Sylveon: Sylveon band flare blitz kills most and i also outspeed so unless i get sleep haxed i win

A Rank
:Dragapult: Dragapult second beats specs first beats disable

A- Rank
:Arcanine: Arcanine first set wins
:Corsola-Galar: Corsola-Galar first set wins
:Corviknight: Corviknight both sets win unless speedy corv which beats second set
:Crustle: Crustle favorable roll on first set against band flame charge-->flare blitz/lariat
252 Atk Crustle Rock Wrecker vs. 184 HP / 252+ Def Incineroar: 326-386 (86.4 - 102.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
:Haxorus: Haxorus both sets win
:Primarina: Primarina lose
:Sawk: Sawk fake out into flame charge/flare blitz wins with first set
:Whimsicott: Whimsicott both win
:Zeraora: Zeraora both win

B+ Rank
:Aegislash: Aegislash first set wins and second set loses to weakness policy cc
:Avalugg: Avalugg first set wins
:Cinderace: Cinderace first set wins and second might Edit:pqs responded with haha cuz this idk why tho
:Excadrill: Excadrill first set wins
:Hydreigon: Hydreigon both win
:Kyurem: Kyurem first set wins
:Mandibuzz: Mandibuzz first set wins
:Rotom-Wash: Rotom-Wash first could beat stall
:Togekiss: Togekiss second wins without hax
 
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Incineroar A- -> A
Two sets:
Incineroar @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 184 HP / 52 Atk / 252 Def / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Taunt/fake out
- Bulk Up/flame charge/outrage
- Darkest Lariat

Incineroar @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 128 Atk / 148 Def / 232 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flame Charge /thunder punch
- Darkest Lariat
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat/outrage

incineroar is very anti meta rn
the only mons that win are primarina,rotom wash, non band crustle, and non scarf non jolly dracovish in S-B+ tiers
other S/A mons lose to 5-6 or even more
S Rank
:Mimikyu: Mimikyu first wins with predicts second wins guranteed

S- Rank
:Darmanitan-Galar: Darmanitan-Galar both sets beat scarf first beats band
:Jirachi: Jirachi both sets win

A+ Rank
:Dracovish: Dracovish first has a favorable roll from jolly scarf and i kill with outrage
-1 252 Atk Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 184 HP / 252+ Def Incineroar: 336-396 (89.1 - 105%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
:Sylveon: Sylveon band flare blitz kills most and i also outspeed so unless i get sleep haxed i win

A Rank
:Dragapult: Dragapult first set wins

A- Rank
:Arcanine: Arcanine first set wins
:Corsola-Galar: Corsola-Galar first set wins
:Corviknight: Corviknight both sets win unless speedy corv which beats second set
:Crustle: Crustle favorable roll on first set against band flame charge-->flare blitz/lariat
252 Atk Crustle Rock Wrecker vs. 184 HP / 252+ Def Incineroar: 326-386 (86.4 - 102.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
:Haxorus: Haxorus both sets win
:Primarina: Primarina lose
:Sawk: Sawk fake out into flame charge/flare blitz wins with first set
:Whimsicott: Whimsicott both win
:Zeraora: Zeraora both win

B+ Rank
:Aegislash: Aegislash first set wins and second set loses to weakness policy cc
:Avalugg: Avalugg first set wins
:Cinderace: Cinderace first set wins and second might Edit:pqs responded with haha cuz this idk why tho
:Excadrill: Excadrill first set wins
:Hydreigon: Hydreigon both win
:Kyurem: Kyurem first set wins
:Mandibuzz: Mandibuzz first set wins
:Rotom-Wash: Rotom-Wash first could beat stall
:Togekiss: Togekiss second wins without hax
An interesting nomination, which I think would probably serve better to potentially keep Incineroar in A- rather than push it up to A. I think the majority would agree that Incineroar in A would be a gross overstatement of its abilities, especially when you compare it to arcanine which undeniably has far better defensive utility given access to reliable recovery and burn up. Offensively speaking, I don't think choice band has been explored enough or proven its merits within any gen8 setting (from what I've seen at least)

This is one of those mons that looks great on paper when you give it a visual representation of what it beats and how, which you have done. However I find the problem with this mon is much more broad and extends beyond what it beats which is why I want to focus on what it loses to. Out of the 24 mons you commented on, a whopping 19 (79.1%) of those are either set or RNG dependent which I personally don't believe is anywhere near solid enough to justify an A rank, especially over other A- pokemon which have proven to be much more dominating in the current meta such as primarina, crustle, zeraora and haxorus. There's definitely potential but not enough to justify a rise at this point of the meta
 
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An interesting nomination, which I think would probably serve better to potentially keep Incineroar in A- rather than push it up to A. I think the majority would agree that Incineroar in A would be a gross overstatement of its abilities, especially when you compare it to arcanine which undeniably has far better defensive utility given access to reliable recovery and burn up. Offensively speaking, I don't think choice band has been explored enough or proven its merits within any gen8 setting (from what I've seen at least)

This is one of those mons that looks great on paper when you give it a visual representation of what it beats and how, which you have done. However I find the problem with this mon is much more broad and extends beyond what it beats which is why I want to focus on what it loses to. Out of the 24 mons you commented on, a whopping 19 (79.1%) of those are either set or RNG dependent which I personally don't believe is anywhere near solid enough to justify an A rank, especially over other A- pokemon which have proven to be much more dominating in the current meta such as primarina, crustle, zeraora and haxorus. There's definitely potential but not enough to justify a rise at this point of the meta
which ones are rng dependent.
i dont believe any are expect togekiss for obvious reasons
also arcanine is different than inciniroar because it has stall moves, so it runs stall,while I am clearly not. If you wanted stall mons there are mons that do it better than arcanine. Incineroar instead runs band or weakness policy which it can utilize better than arcanine.
 
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Nalei

girl oo
is a Pre-Contributor
which ones are rng dependent.
i dont believe any are expect togekiss for obvious reasons
also arcanine is different than inciniroar because it has stall moves, so it runs stall,while I am clearly not. If you wanted stall mons there are mons that do it better than arcanine. Incineroar instead runs band or weakness policy which it can do better than arcanine.
:Dracovish: Dracovish first has a favorable roll from jolly scarf and i kill with outrage
-1 252 Atk Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 184 HP / 252+ Def Incineroar: 336-396 (89.1 - 105%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
:Sylveon: Sylveon band flare blitz kills most and i also outspeed so unless i get sleep haxed i win
:Crustle: Crustle favorable roll on first set against band flame charge-->flare blitz/lariat
252 Atk Crustle Rock Wrecker vs. 184 HP / 252+ Def Incineroar: 326-386 (86.4 - 102.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO (not even Adamant)
:Hydreigon: Hydreigon both win (not RNG but you definitely do not beat this with a scrap of reliability)
:Kyurem: Kyurem first set wins (not RNG but you definitely do not beat this with a scrap of reliability)
:Rotom-Wash: Rotom-Wash first could beat stall
:Togekiss: Togekiss second wins without hax
also arcanine is different than inciniroar because it has stall moves, so it runs stall,while I am clearly not. If you wanted stall mons there are mons that do it better than arcanine.
How the Pokemon goes about winning is irrelevant. All that matters is what mons it beats and how reliably.
 
How the Pokemon goes about winning is irrelevant. All that matters is what mons it beats and how reliably.
also apparently im supposed to say "effective check" because anything with 3% chance of happening makes it not a counter
I only lose to 3 turn sleep which is 3.5% chance against syleon
I already admitted to losing to rotom wash.
I guranteed beat hydreigon
I guranteed beat kyurem
taunt for stall and 252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Incineroar: 322-380 (85.4 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
i tank specs
i already admitted to losing to dracovish
i already admitting to losing to crustle
also when i said i beat band crustle ,scarf vish,and stall rotom wash i was mentioning possible baits/sets it could still win against(to give more info if you cared)
i mean, is it not cool that inciniroar sometimes beats dracovish?
I added at the top of the post the mons i lose to which include,rotom wash,crustle,and dracovish
 

Nalei

girl oo
is a Pre-Contributor
also apparently im supposed to say "effective check" because anything with 3% chance of happening makes it not a counter
31.3 is a lot different than 3
I only lose to 3 turn sleep which is 3.5% chance against syleon
*1/3 or 33.3% chance
I guranteed beat hydreigon
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Incineroar: 372-438 (98.6 - 116.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
I guranteed beat kyurem
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Incineroar: 382-450 (101.3 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
i mean, is it not cool that inciniroar sometimes beats dracovish?
It's cool but is contrary to "which ones are rng dependent.i dont believe any are expect togekiss for obvious reasons" which yes, I know you've already admitted.
 
31.3 is a lot different than 3

*1/3 or 33.3% chance

252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Incineroar: 372-438 (98.6 - 116.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Incineroar: 382-450 (101.3 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It's cool but is contrary to "which ones are rng dependent.i dont believe any are expect togekiss for obvious reasons" which yes, I know you've already admitted.
srry forgot sleep mechanics.
anyways 3 turn sleep and its 33% is pretty low and considered hax
.yes if you know i said i lose to dracovish stop repeating it <3
modest hydreigon is 5% compared to 20%
modest kyurem is also 5% compared to 20%
but i guess ill drop the kyurem matchup


when i said, "which ones are rng dependent.i dont believe any are expect togekiss for obvious reasons" , i did not understand the meaning of counter
you explained it to me on ps so now i know so we dont need to talk about that. Don't want to edit my post because its a dumb move but no need to mention it.

I just optimised the ev's and now i beat hydreigon and this also
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 180 SpD Incineroar: 288-340 (87 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
 
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lost heros

Meme Master
is a Pre-Contributor
Welcome to the second edition of Lost Heros's VR Corner!

This little project of mine will be to help create some insight on how I judge a pokemon when ranking it. These posts aren't nominations, but rather explanations on why I voted for a pokemon to be a certain ranking. If you want to see the full list of voting you can do so here.

This is just how I define ranks not a general definition of them.

Now before I get started the first thing to do is to define how I define the ranks I place pokemon in. S Rank pokemon define the metagame. These pokemon will always be present in every micro-metagame you encounter on ladder. They can either promote or completely erase entire strategies or team compositions. Their counters get more use than they would otherwise just because of their existence. They will almost always have high usage and a wide variety of sets to choose from. A Rank pokemon are just very very good. You'll never feel bad about putting an A rank pokemon on your team even if you feel like you don't have to. They do their job and they do their job very well. They can have high usage although it's not necessary and they might have several sets to choose from or they might have 1 set that is all they need. B Rank pokemon have a job and they do it well. You won't often be surprised at the set a B rank pokemon uses, although when you face it, it's no walk in the park. They are deceptively strong, but they just don't fit on every team. C Rank pokemon are weird man. They have a specific niche that you don't really see in many other pokemon. It's weird, but a good weird. D Rank pokemon are bad. I would best describe them as pokemon that are technically used, but not really good enough to even say they have specific niche they target.

Furthermore any + or - means that pokemon is better or worse, respectively, than the other pokemon in that rank.


Alright let's get started on my second topic of choice.


Dusclops
My vote for Dusclops is a low but gold C-. Dusclops boasts an exceptionally high eviolite-boosted mixed defenses in combination with many great tools useful for a stall playstyle. However, because of its extreme weakness to trick and stiff competition with Corsola-G, Dusclops has an exceptionally difficult time carving out its own niche.

At first glance it's fairly easy to get over-excited about Dusclops. 40/130/130 Defenses bolstered by an eviolite gives Dusclops defensive stats similar to Chansey. Then it has Stall Support in Will-o-Wisp, Confide, and Haze all of which make it difficult for set-up pokemon to over come it. It all has several game plans it can use with Trick Room+Disable or Pressue Spite. Plus with Rest as recovery PP Stalling is natural for Dusclops.

So where does it fail? Unfortunately, no matter what you do, Dusclops falls apart to most every Trick user, and while Night Shade can help against Taunt match-ups, it's not always enough. Then it has strict competition for another eviolite dependant ghost type stall pokemon, Corsola-G. Corsola-G has a very similar defensive stat line, an identical typing, and a similar game plan with the added bonus of Strength Sap and Cursed Body.

So why run Dusclops at all? Well there's a very small opportunity cost benefit when running Dusclops. While Corsola-G can beat many Stall-oriented pokemon tanks to Curse, Dusclops can do so as well, without having to change its set whatsoever thanks to Pressure+Rest. This allows Dusclops to consolidate some of Corsola-G's matchups with a single set.

Or if you wanna have fun run trick room disable.

Anywho, here's some (unoptimized) sets to play around with.

Dusclops @ Eviolite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rest
- Confide
- Pain Split / Night Shade / Spite / Curse / Haze

Dusclops @ Eviolite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Disable
- Night Shade
- Pain Split


All said and done, Dusclops is outclassed and only has a very marginal niche for itself, being why I rate it so low as C-.
 

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