Resource 1v1 Sword and Shield Viability Rankings

Nominating Darmanitan for B
Best set imo:
Darmanitan @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 8 HP / 100 Atk / 164 Def / 236 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower
- Earthquake
- Trick

Access to trick sets this thing apart from its Galarian counterpart, allowing it to function as a wallbreaker without having to give up a choice scarf. Trick also allows it to beat Mimikyu provided you predict the set, as you can Trick on CurseKyu, while the bulk evs guarantee it lives Adamant Life Orb Mimikyu Phantom Force into Shadow Sneak. A better defensive typing also gives it some matchups such as Jirachi and Sylveon. Darmanitan has competition with Arcanine, a bulkier fire type with access to recovery and some alternative coverage options, however Darm tends to have better matchups against stall mons like Corsola and Mandibuzz. In addition to scarf, this mon has an unexplored Life Orb Will-O-Wisp + Taunt/Encore set, allowing it to continue functioning as a breaker while beating sturdy Pokemon such as Choice Band Sawk, Steelix, and Avalugg, albeit losing to Mimikyu and Cinderace.
 

Here Comes Team Charm!

Perhaps the stars
is a Community Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Meowstic for B- or so, maybe higher.

Deoxys-S (Meowstic) (M) @ Kee Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Charm
- Rest
- Toxic
- Substitute

Many defensive staples of the current meta can still be broken with certain powerhouses, chief amongst them banded G-Darm. The main issue is obvious: running enough bulk to tank hits and enough speed to get a boosting move off first is difficult and sometimes impossible. Meowstic fixes this.

With Prankster, Charm is guaranteed to go first, giving meowstic an effective 552 defense. Basically every physical hit in the meta can be survived, allowing for Kee to activate and ensuring the win against almost all physical attackers.

This destroys all but a very small number of would-be wallbreakers. Dark-types obviously still win, clear body dragapult and white smoke centiskorch have obvious advantages (though those are uncommon abilities), and taunt/encore continue to be hazardous.

The moveslots are all fairly straightforward. Charm is to lower attack, Rest is recovery, Toxic is a wincon, and Substitute allows you to avoid status, crits, and Trick. Note that all mimikyu sets lose to this: Life Orb doesn't do enough damage and can be toxic stalled if it tries to SD up, Band and Scarf similarly die to Charm spam after you've ensured they don't Trick you, and Curse can be beaten by clicking Toxic, Sub, Rest (or if they don't curse: Charm).

As a final note, you can run 104 speed EVs, still beat most of the things you'd otherwise beat, and get the ability to Toxic whimsicott T1. Depending on your team, it might just be worth it.

Some calcs:
-2 252+ Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Meowstic: 156-184 (44.3 - 52.2%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO
-2 252+ Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Meowstic: 182-215 (51.7 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-4 252+ Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Meowstic: 69-82 (19.6 - 23.2%) -- possible 5HKO

-2 252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Meowstic: 144-170 (40.9 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

-2 252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Meowstic: 48-57 (13.6 - 16.1%) -- possible 7HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Mimikyu Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Meowstic: 112-135 (31.8 - 38.3%) -- 96.5% chance to 3HKO
-2 252 Atk Life Orb Mimikyu Phantom Force vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Meowstic: 133-156 (37.7 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-2 252 Atk Choice Band Mimikyu Phantom Force vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Meowstic: 146-174 (41.4 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

-2 252+ Atk Choice Band Dragapult Phantom Force vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Meowstic: 198-234 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-4 252+ Atk Choice Band Dragapult Phantom Force vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Meowstic: 86-104 (24.4 - 29.5%)


With meowstic easily beating the top physical attackers in the meta, as well as curse mimikyu and various trick-using stall counters (again, including mimikyu), I believe it's more than deserving of a B- spot. Type:Null (currently also B-) has better special bulk and more PP, but meowstic does better versus Trick, a handful of really strong wallbreakers (Band Darm-G most notably) and some other stallers that lack Rest.
 

Chickenpie2

red:active
is a Contributor Alumnus
wow gen 8 is exciting huh so many new things like jirachi and togekiss and mimikyu yay fun

anyway if you guys didn't know already i like hats so without further ado:
Nomming :Hatterene: D > B-
She's a fking hat. give her what she deserves.
Hat is like a bulkier version of Gardevoir, but also much better because it has Magic Bounce. Magic Bounce is such a great ability with the amount of utility status moves that 1v1ers love to run to tech vs opponents. Shuts down Yawn strats, dropping stats like Fake Tears (looking at you :Sylveon:) or Confide (looking at you :Type_Null:) or Noble Roar (looking at you :Kyurem:) or Encore. Yes its slow af and will underspeed most mons (i tried running trick room as well but its just not worth the move slot), but that doesnt matter because it means you can invest in bulk!
Hatterene (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 36 SpA / 220 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Mystical Fire
- Psyshock
- Draining Kiss
- Calm Mind
The strat is to basically CM up so you can heal with Draining Kiss for days. This works against bulkier mons like Type Null and Gastrodon. Psyshock when you need to finish them off, works especially well against opposing CM users like Sylveon. Mystical Fire is for dropping SpA, Special Jirachi, and Ferrothorn. Sitrus Berry helps to keep Hat healthy.
Hatterene covers most special threats and even a couple physical ones, primarily taking on Dragons and Fairies. the main matchups to take note of are:
Set Up :Jirachi:: you can just CM alongside Jirachi and cleanly 3HKO if they rest, while dropping their SpA with Mystical Fire at the same time. Obviously you lose to regular Scarf and stuff.
Non-Band :Arcanine:: It can't really touch Hat, Hat just outstalls it.
:Sylveon:: CM, they cant really touch you unless they're specs. At +3 you can just OHKO with Psyshock.
Disable :Dragapult:: Disable doesn't work vs Magic Bounce.
:Whimsicott:: Rip leech seed.
Rotoms: These are kind of 50/50s, because if they know what set you're running and they use Trick, its not exactly the most favourable situation. In general, if they don't Trick and Hat CMs, Hat should win, alternatively if they do Trick, Hat should Psyshock to win. If they don't have Trick, generally its in Hat's favour.
:Kyurem:: CM and win, noble roar bounces back.
:Mandibuzz:: Mandi can't touch Hats.
:Ferrothorn:: Leech Seed doesn't work, Gyro does 0 and Mystical Fire burns this thing to a crisp.
:Gardevoir:: Mystical Fire first in case they Trick, if they're not Choiced you win anyway.
:Toxapex:: goodnight pex.

Choice Specs also works pretty well but haven't tested extensively with it
Hatterene (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Mystical Fire
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Draining Kiss / Dazzling Gleam
- Giga Drain / Shadow Ball

Choice Specs is also a decent option for Hatmon, however it has to invest in defense to take on key threats like Conkeldurr and Scarf Dracovish. allows it to run other coverage for stuff like Giga Drain for Seismitoad and Shadow Ball for Gardevoir. Draining Kiss can help to regain HP vs Sawk, but Dazzling Gleam takes out Scarf Dracovish. Scarf Darmanitan and Darmanitan-Galar are also dealt with.

TLDR:
I think it's definitely capable of being up there with Celebi, Keldeo and Blastoise in B-. It's got great defensive capabilities, good typing in Fairy/Psychic, and a very powerful ability in Magic Bounce.
 

clerica

fly me up to Jupiter
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
wow gen 8 is exciting huh so many new things like jirachi and togekiss and mimikyu yay fun

anyway if you guys didn't know already i like hats so without further ado:
Nomming :Hatterene: D > B-
She's a fking hat. give her what she deserves.
Hat is like a bulkier version of Gardevoir, but also much better because it has Magic Bounce. Magic Bounce is such a great ability with the amount of utility status moves that 1v1ers love to run to tech vs opponents. Shuts down Yawn strats, dropping stats like Fake Tears (looking at you :Sylveon:) or Confide (looking at you :Type_Null:) or Noble Roar (looking at you :Kyurem:) or Encore. Yes its slow af and will underspeed most mons (i tried running trick room as well but its just not worth the move slot), but that doesnt matter because it means you can invest in bulk!
Hatterene (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 36 SpA / 220 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Mystical Fire
- Psyshock
- Draining Kiss
- Calm Mind
The strat is to basically CM up so you can heal with Draining Kiss for days. This works against bulkier mons like Type Null and Gastrodon. Psyshock when you need to finish them off, works especially well against opposing CM users like Sylveon. Mystical Fire is for dropping SpA, Special Jirachi, and Ferrothorn. Sitrus Berry helps to keep Hat healthy.
Hatterene covers most special threats and even a couple physical ones, primarily taking on Dragons and Fairies. the main matchups to take note of are:
Set Up :Jirachi:: you can just CM alongside Jirachi and cleanly 3HKO if they rest, while dropping their SpA with Mystical Fire at the same time. Obviously you lose to regular Scarf and stuff.
Non-Band :Arcanine:: It can't really touch Hat, Hat just outstalls it.
:Sylveon:: CM, they cant really touch you unless they're specs. At +3 you can just OHKO with Psyshock.
Disable :Dragapult:: Disable doesn't work vs Magic Bounce.
:Whimsicott:: Rip leech seed.
Rotoms: These are kind of 50/50s, because if they know what set you're running and they use Trick, its not exactly the most favourable situation. In general, if they don't Trick and Hat CMs, Hat should win, alternatively if they do Trick, Hat should Psyshock to win. If they don't have Trick, generally its in Hat's favour.
:Kyurem:: CM and win, noble roar bounces back.
:Mandibuzz:: Mandi can't touch Hats.
:Ferrothorn:: Leech Seed doesn't work, Gyro does 0 and Mystical Fire burns this thing to a crisp.
:Gardevoir:: Mystical Fire first in case they Trick, if they're not Choiced you win anyway.
:Toxapex:: goodnight pex.

Choice Specs also works pretty well but haven't tested extensively with it
Hatterene (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Mystical Fire
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Draining Kiss / Dazzling Gleam
- Giga Drain / Shadow Ball

Choice Specs is also a decent option for Hatmon, however it has to invest in defense to take on key threats like Conkeldurr and Scarf Dracovish. allows it to run other coverage for stuff like Giga Drain for Seismitoad and Shadow Ball for Gardevoir. Draining Kiss can help to regain HP vs Sawk, but Dazzling Gleam takes out Scarf Dracovish. Scarf Darmanitan and Darmanitan-Galar are also dealt with.

TLDR:
I think it's definitely capable of being up there with Celebi, Keldeo and Blastoise in B-. It's got great defensive capabilities, good typing in Fairy/Psychic, and a very powerful ability in Magic Bounce.
You know, I almost called you crazy, but then tried the hat myself. It's a really cool and niche mon that can either straight up beat or outplay a lot of matchups that can be tricky to deal with. Being able to beat disable pult+sylv is a great bonus because those two are a solid core together. Before you all say it's not good try this mon yourself. It's loads of fun and surprisingly good.
 
I know this Pokemon is already ranked, and Nalei mentioned my set but I thought I'd post it anyways just to help out I suppose :)
erwf.png

Appletun @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Ripen
EVs: 200 HP / 200 Def / 108 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Apple Acid
- Amnesia
- Recycle
- Iron Defense

As long as you live a hit, and use the correct move (amnesia or iron defense) you can then just spam recycle and heal up whilst using Apple Acid to deal dmg & lower their special defense.
 
Nomming Qwilfish
Unranked -> D / C-
dad (Qwilfish) (M) @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 172 Def / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Liquidation
- Poison Jab
- Taunt

252 Attack EVs maxmize Qwilfish's attack, allowing it O/2HKO more opponents. 68 Speed lets it outspeed Bulky Arcanine and slower mons such as Bulky Blastoise, Rhyperior, Excadrill, Fast Tyranitar and Incineroar. Liquidation is a strong STAB that has a chance to drop Defense. Aqua Jet allows Qwilfish to KO targets that take heavy damage from Liquidation, but may not be OHKO'd depending on Defense investment, such as Excadrill. Poison Jab is a strong STAB that hits Fairy and Grass-types for super-effective damage. Finally, Taunt is a useful move that allows Qwilfish to shut down Shell Smash Blastoise.
Shuca Berry ensures that Qwilfish will live an Earthquake from Excadrill and Rhyperior, and in the case of Excadrill, KO it with Aqua Jet.
-1 0 Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 172 Def Qwilfish: 170-210 (62.7 - 77.4%) -- approx. 2HKO

252+ Atk Qwilfish Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 252-297 (58 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 220+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 172 Def Shuca Berry Qwilfish: 149-177 (54.9 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Qwilfish Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 372-440 (103 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

-1 252+ Atk Blastoise Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 172 Def Shuca Berry Qwilfish: 56-67 (20.6 - 24.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

252+ Atk Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blastoise: 115-136 (38.4 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Qwilfish Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 224+ Def Arcanine: 210-248 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO -1

108+ Atk Crustle Rock Wrecker vs. 0 HP / 172 Def Qwilfish: 130-154 (47.9 - 56.8%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Qwilfish Liquidation vs. 104 HP / 44 Def Crustle: 198-234 (64.4 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Qwilfish seems like an odd choice to nom, and I originally wasn't going to until another user told me I should, but after using it extensively on ladder, I think it's worthy of at least D-tier.
It has good matchups against Arcanine, Excadrill, Blastoise, Rhyperior, Crustle, Tyranitar and Ninetails- Alola. It also has access to Intimidate- a very useful ability that allows it to survive hits from strong physical attackers. Taunt is extremely useful for Qwilfish because it allows it to shut down Crustle and Blastouse, which would OHKO it otherwise.

I suggest it specifically for D tier (possibly C-) because it probably isn't the best choice for a Water- type, but I think it has a niche as a physical Water-type with access to both Taunt and Intimidate.
I can add replays if needed.
I really like this post, good to see Qwilfish again (Gen7 OU’s secret nichemon lol). Unless I missed it, Qwilfish also has access to Swords Dance, which makes it good against stall since it gets taunt too.
 

clerica

fly me up to Jupiter
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Polteageist (Pot)
1588698571409.png

Polteageist-Antique @ Petaya Berry/Salac Berry (Mostly for Pult)
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 8 HP / 252 SpA / 248 Spe
Mild Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Shadow Ball
- Endure
- Hyper Beam/Stored Power/Giga Drain

Unranked->C-/C

Now I know a lot of you guys are like "Smely, you've finally lost your mind this mon sucks." Hear me out, Pot is good. With a base special attack stat of 134 this mon absolutely nukes. However, what makes pot super cool is that it can beat mons like darm, vish (favorable roll but still not 100% sorry), and rachi all with endure. It outspeeds darm+vish at +2 and rachi at +4 and kos back with shadow ball or hyper beam. It also has the ability to outplay certain special mons like prim with shadow ball into hyper beam or endure into hyper beam koing certain prim sets (still a read on the set so not perfect). What holds this mon back is that it has rolls against a lot of mons, but just can't secure enough matchups reliably for me to push for a higher ranking at the moment. An example of this would be gardevoir who I can either hope to oko with shadow ball, or run a lot of spdef to pray for a 2ko but I can't do that without ruining other matchups that are rolls. However, this mon is also still incredibly underexplored and has a really nice niche in what it can beat and I have had success with it on the ladder as of now.

Feel free to explore and push this mon to its limits!

s/o's to Bomb21XD and Potatochan789 for the set/optimization

Edit: I have been informed to run Mild on it instead of Modest to remove some of the 50/50s on whether you will pop petaya or not
 
Last edited:
Braviary ur - a-

Braviary (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- iron head
- Close Combat
- Giga Impact

This set beats
prim
sylveon
pult
band vish
scarf haxorus
whimsicott
hydreigon
non chople incin
kyurem
ribaloom

I could go on
A-
 
Braviary ur - a-

Braviary (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- iron head
- Close Combat
- Giga Impact

This set beats
prim
sylveon
pult pult runs sub+disable
band vish 0- Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Braviary: 429-505 (106.1 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
scarf haxorus
whimsicott
hydreigon 252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Braviary: 429-505 (106.1 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
non chople incin maybe if you were running defiant
kyurem 0- SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Braviary: 414-488 (102.4 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
ribaloom

I could go on
A- UR
 
Last edited:

maki

uri duri naranhi
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Braviary ur - a-

Braviary (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- iron head
- Close Combat
- Giga Impact

This set beats
prim
sylveon
pult
band vish
scarf haxorus
whimsicott
hydreigon
non chople incin
kyurem
ribaloom

I could go on
A-
While I think finding underused pokemon to be cool, I think that it being an A- is an overstatement. The Braviary set does not beat many of the pokemon you listed above. Dragapult is not OHKO'd by Braviary, meaning that sets like Disable, Specs, and Band will still defeat it; Band Dracovish usually runs some speed invest, meaning that Braviary will be OHKO'd. Even without Chople Berry, Incineroar will tank the Close Combat and OHKO it back after the drop with a small amount of attack invest. I would not rank it so highly, maybe somewhere around C-, good luck on finding more cool pokemon!
 
Nomming Qwilfish
Unranked -> D / C-
dad (Qwilfish) (M) @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 172 Def / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Liquidation
- Poison Jab
- Taunt

252 Attack EVs maxmize Qwilfish's attack, allowing it O/2HKO more opponents. 68 Speed lets it outspeed Bulky Arcanine and slower mons such as Bulky Blastoise, Rhyperior, Excadrill, Fast Tyranitar and Incineroar. Liquidation is a strong STAB that has a chance to drop Defense. Aqua Jet allows Qwilfish to KO targets that take heavy damage from Liquidation, but may not be OHKO'd depending on Defense investment, such as Excadrill. Poison Jab is a strong STAB that hits Fairy and Grass-types for super-effective damage. Finally, Taunt is a useful move that allows Qwilfish to shut down Shell Smash Blastoise.
Shuca Berry ensures that Qwilfish will live an Earthquake from Excadrill and Rhyperior, and in the case of Excadrill, KO it with Aqua Jet.
-1 0 Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 172 Def Qwilfish: 170-210 (62.7 - 77.4%) -- approx. 2HKO

252+ Atk Qwilfish Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 252-297 (58 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 220+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 172 Def Shuca Berry Qwilfish: 149-177 (54.9 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Qwilfish Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 372-440 (103 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

-1 252+ Atk Blastoise Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 172 Def Shuca Berry Qwilfish: 56-67 (20.6 - 24.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

252+ Atk Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blastoise: 115-136 (38.4 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Qwilfish Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 224+ Def Arcanine: 210-248 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO -1

108+ Atk Crustle Rock Wrecker vs. 0 HP / 172 Def Qwilfish: 130-154 (47.9 - 56.8%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Qwilfish Liquidation vs. 104 HP / 44 Def Crustle: 198-234 (64.4 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Qwilfish seems like an odd choice to nom, and I originally wasn't going to until another user told me I should, but after using it extensively on ladder, I think it's worthy of at least D-tier.
It has good matchups against Arcanine, Excadrill, Blastoise, Rhyperior, Crustle, Tyranitar and Ninetails- Alola. It also has access to Intimidate- a very useful ability that allows it to survive hits from strong physical attackers. Taunt is extremely useful for Qwilfish because it allows it to shut down Crustle and Blastouse, which would OHKO it otherwise.

I suggest it specifically for D tier (possibly C-) because it probably isn't the best choice for a Water- type, but I think it has a niche as a physical Water-type with access to both Taunt and Intimidate.
I can add replays if needed.
I ran qwilfish a while ago. I ran...

Qwilfish @ Air Balloon
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Thunder Wave
- Poison Jab
- Aqua Jet

The idea behind it was para/flinch with priority and stab. It worked decently, well as well as you think a set like this can do. The issue I cam across with was being to frail/outsped/not KOing. The problem with the set came down to its weak spd and its inability to KO or do enough dmg to aqua jet.

That being said, altough it beats some pokemon unless people use it they will end up not bothering to rank it. Look at wishiwashi, they have it at the lowest tier, and I'd be one to say wishi is 100% better. Just because of its bulk/dmg/and usable sets. Again, it probably won't matter because a rankings system is literally people's opinion and doesn't mean (ex. lapris > vaporeon because lapris gets ddance) Rankings here are based off how many people use it, how strong is the set, and how butt hurt someone is based on a past experience or lack there off.

As long as it gets ranked, take that as a win :)
 
Qwilfish is very frail, especially on the special side. But it has decent physical defense with Intimidate + investment, which lets it survive hits from what it's supposed to kill (i.e. Tyranitar, Rhyperior, Cinderace etc.)

Someone brought up the point that Gyarados has access to Taunt and Intimidate as well, which was my main selling point for Qwilfish.

-1 0 Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Rock Wrecker vs. 208 HP / 48 Def Gyarados: 492-582 (128.4 - 151.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 367-437 (84.5 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

If Gyarados whiffs Waterfall, then Rhyperor gets the OHKO on it with Rock Wrecker.

-1 0 Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Rock Wrecker vs. 0 HP / 168 Def Qwilfish: 205-243 (75.6 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Qwilfish Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 252-297 (58 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

However, while Liquidation only 2HKOs Rhyperior, Rock Wrecker only 2HKOs Qwilfish, and since Qwilfish is faster, it can get a KO on it with Liquidation.

An error that was pointed out in my previous post by Lkjc that I would like to address is that Qwilfish does not beat Ninetales-A, which is true. The Ninetales-A I battled did not know Freeze-Dry and was presumably a non-Specs (so non-standard) set that does not accurately reflect Qwilfish's matchup against it.
rhyperior wins against qwilfish with metal burst you may say oh crustle but crustle has counter also and shell smash. and the point with gyarados is it can beat what qwilfish beats and more including jirachi,darm g,dracovish,pult,prim(WP) stuff like this +2 32+ SpA Primarina Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Qwilfish: 287-338 (105.9 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO,haxorus,aegislash,hydreigon,kommo,

i only went from S to B+ mons but im sure there is way more stuff gyarados beats over qwilfish

I also believe that qwilfish cant beat blastoise
252+ Atk Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blastoise: 117-138 (39.1 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Poison jab will push into torrent range every time
Blastoise only needs to ice beam t1 then hydro at torrent also blastoise outspeeds so idk how taunt will even help if it shell smashes already
Assuming it's a slow blastoise:
252+ SpA Torrent Blastoise Hydro Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Qwilfish: 243-287 (89.6 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Blastoise Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Qwilfish: 65-77 (23.9 - 28.4%) -- 95.8% chance to 4HKO

Also dunno about arcanine,
-1 252+ Atk Qwilfish Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arcanine: 198-234 (61.6 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Qwilfish Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arcanine: 96-114 (29.9 - 35.5%) -- 14.1% chance to 3HKO
so its easier to understand the rolls, I set basepower of liquidation to 125 as its liquidation+aqua jet then i calced
-1 252+ Atk Qwilfish Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arcanine: 290-344 (90.3 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Arcanine Psychic Fangs vs. 0 HP / 172 Def Qwilfish: 158-186 (58.3 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Qwilfish gets taunt and outspeeds Crustle, so Shell Smash is a moot point (as well as for Blastoise). Crustle will usually attempt to Shell Smash turn one, so Qwilfish can just use Liquidation and then KO with Aqua Jet, since Crustle will then be at -1 Defense. Blastoise's most common set has 239 speed (30%), which Qwilfish can easily creep.

252+ Atk Qwilfish Liquidation vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Crustle: 204-242 (64.9 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Qwilfish Aqua Jet vs. -1 132 HP / 0 Def Crustle: 146-174 (46.4 - 55.4%) -- 67.6% chance to 2HKO

By letting Crustle Shell Smash, Qwilfish can use Liquidation, and then KO turn two with Aqua Jet.

252+ Atk Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. -1 148 HP / 0 Def Blastoise: 174-205 (51.7 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 172+ SpA Blastoise Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Qwilfish: 135-159 (49.8 - 58.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

By letting Blastoise Shell Smash, Qwilfish can use Poison Jab to 2HKO. Blastoise's Surf 2HKOs, but because it wasted it's first turn using Shell Smash, it gets KO'd turn two. Only 9.8% of Blastoise use White Herb.

Only 12.6% of Rhyperior have Metal Burst, and Qwilfish wins against the ones that don't.

Psychic Fangs is not listed on Arcanine's usage.
i specifically mentioned crustle because it literally has counter so liquidation will make qwilfish die.
against blastoise i literally said ice beam into hydro cannon if in torrent if not u can attack more
if for some odd reason u actually let blastoise shell smash(whywhywhywhy)
+2 252+ SpA Blastoise Hydro Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Qwilfish: 325-383 (119.9 - 141.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
read my calcs n explanations plz
also arc doesnt really matter i already listed a ton of others gyarados beats that qwilfish cant
beat on the vr, i would assume it has to actually have aniche
 
Last edited by a moderator:
This is assuming Crustle uses Counter turn 1, which it most likely won't do. It usually uses Shell Smash to negate the Attack debuff from Intimidate, allowing Qwilfish to use Liquidation and KO it turn 2 with Aqua Jet.


By swapping Qwilfish's Defense EV to Special Defense, it can tank Hydro Cannon from 172 SpAtk Blastoise (which is the most common SpAtk investment for Blastoise).

+2 172 SpA Blastoise Hydro Cannon vs. 0 HP / 116 SpD Qwilfish: 229-270 (84.5 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. 148 HP / 0 Def Blastoise: 117-138 (34.8 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. -1 148 HP / 0 Def Blastoise: 174-205 (51.7 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Qwilfish Aqua Jet vs. -1 148 HP / 0 Def Blastoise: 43-51 (12.7 - 15.1%) -- possible 7HKO

Unless you have the absolute worst luck and whiff all three attacks, Qwilfish can still take down Blastoise after it uses Shell Smash. Poison Jab turn one while Blastoise uses Shell Smash, use Poison Jab turn two when Blastoise uses Hydro Cannon. If it doesn't KO, use Aqua Jet turn 3.
"it most likely wont" ok good luck. You win if they don't click the move that wins does that sound about right? Against blastoise it has substitute which goes into torrent and kills you I've mentioned torrent I've mentioned hydro cannon stop throwing out "oh it can be ev'd" no it can't bud.
+2 176 SpA Torrent Blastoise Hydro Cannon vs. 0 HP / 116 SpD Qwilfish: 345-406 (127.3 - 149.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
EDIT: forgot to mention that blastoise also has petaya so even more death for qwilfish

qwilfish beats like 5 things and even then its completely outclassed by gyarados
 
Last edited by a moderator:
172+ SpA Torrent Blastoise Hydro Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Qwilfish: 226-266 (83.3 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If Blastoise just spams sub to activate torrent, you can break its last Substitute and KO it with Aqua Jet, or Poison Jab if you're faster.


It can, as I said in my previous post. And I have never "throwed that out", I said it once.
PLEASE READ. blastoise goes shell smash-->sub-->torrent-->petaya-->hydro cannon
IT DIES I SHOWED CALC HELLLLLLO
I've explained this like 10 times already dont know why u cant understand for some reason. My point was that gyarados was just a straight up upgrade and i think everyone already knows that blastoise beats qwilfish but you just dont understand. I could also bring up counter blastoise if you really keep just ignoring everything i say and all the calcs i show.
Why do you think i showed a +2 torrent calc. You completely ignored it then showed an unrelated calc that proved nothing.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Then just use Taunt. 140 Speed EVs allow Qwilfish to outspeed the most common Blastoise set.
According to usage stats, Chilan berry is the most common item for Blastoise, which is useless for its matchup against Qwilfish.
this just proves that you don't understand anything. I explained in post#1 how taunt t1 would play out. and again, I've already explained that petaya is not needed to kill qwilfish. since you shifted evs on qwilfish, just dragon pulse into hydro cannon. It changes depending on what you do first but if you taunt first then dragon pulse 3 times. if poison jab first dragon pulse into hydro cannon or shell smash into sub.
 
then

Qwilfish outspeeds Blastoise, and in your other posts you usually used a Blastoise calc with the wrong EVs.



Stop arguing with me if all you are going to do is insult me (this is exactly what happened last time I made a VR nom, back in Gen 7).
last point:
176+ SpA Blastoise Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 116 SpD Qwilfish: 96-114 (35.4 - 42%) -- guaranteed OHKO
176+ SpA Torrent Blastoise Hydro Cannon vs. 0 HP / 116 SpD Qwilfish: 189-223 (69.7 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 

DEG

The night belongs to you
is a Community Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
NYAAAAAAAA lovely 1v1 people >~< I come here today to share my expertise in the current eighth generation of the one versus one metagame.

:dracozolt: Criminally underrated Pokemon, it being in B- proves that. Dracozolt can easily KO most of the metagame if the opposing Pokemon is slower and if it hits < lmao. Dracozolt can run both Scarf and Band sets successfully and they do have different checks. Scarf Dracozolt lets it beat fast threats that might KO it such as Banded dragons but the banded sets is what ive been using, it literally KO all stall Pokemon bar Bulky physical Ground and v physical cursola. Dragon/Electric is also amazing plus it has great speed which lets it naturally outspeed Primarina and Sylveon. It beats all rotom forms reliably, it also bops most haban dragons. It's true that it loses due to misses sometimes and to all sturdy Pokemon. So it should be raised to B+ the most other than that it's just eh.

:dragapult: Up to A+ literally is same level as Primarina if not better. Dragapult can run a plethora of effective sets but it shines the most w/ hex sub disable where its fast enough to outspeed all Banded/Specs Pokemon also Wisp can cripple non choice locked physical attackers and hit them hard with hex. This Pokemon alone can beat most choiced users. Lose to fairies regardless its set but its ability to beat a big chunk of VR makes it deserving a spot.

:weezing-galar: B- to B It beats really cool Pokemon such as avalugg, steelix, some dragons noting kommo-o, hydreigon, vish, zolt, whimsicott, sylveon but its kinda lackluster other than that. tbh it beating some top Pokemon makes it worth B but arguably. I feel B- is low for it and B is just the right spot.

:rotom-heat: To B+/A- Oh boy during my run on ladder I think this is probably the best Fire-type Pokemon in the metagame. It can run a choiced scarf or specs set amazingly and tbh I feel like its better than both Cinderace and Incineroar. Fire-types makes it resist fairies which nails it some good matchup against sylveon and gardevoir, and beat notable steel-type Pokemon such as Corviknight. Its stall set lets it beat fighting matchups and can also get through fairy matchups though it sacrifices specs power vs Primarina.

:celebi: To B Beats some spammed Pokemon most notably Primarina, Conk, and banded Sawk. It has access to trick+Recover vs stall Pokemon, and with Jirachi being gone it gets less competition as psychic type.

:Hatterene: to C, D pretty bad for it. It definitely have the tools to be ranked higher, unexplored Pokemon, magic bounce+cm is good.

tbf got more mons but I got lazy so i might write part 2 later.
 
Last edited:

pqs

Banned deucer.
hello i am not deg but i would also like to make some vr nominations

-> S-
it'd be easier to list what this mon can't do over what it can tbh, it can beat just about almost anything and is the best mon in the tier right now with mimikyu and jirachi gone. hard counters are limited, and it's a force in both team preview and battle. techs like chilan berry for darmg / diggersby are no joke, and get it done as a great lure. looking at the VR currently, here's what can hard counter prim:
red = u get hard countered
blue = u dont lose all the time
S Rank

S- Rank
:Darmanitan-Galar: Darmanitan-Galar chilan
:Sylveon: Sylveon speed ties and encore strats get in the way of sylveon hard countering nvm apparently speedy is the wave

A+ Rank
:Primarina: Primarina cant hard counter itself

A Rank
:Arcanine: Arcanine fire type
:Crustle: Crustle aqua jet beats regular shell smash strats, fast sub beats band
:Dracovish: Dracovish lol
:Dragapult: Dragapult u tank specs thunder, also encore cm can stop sub strats

A- Rank
:Corsola-Galar: Corsola-Galar encore
:Corviknight: Corviknight specs or encore strats though less reliable
:Haxorus: Haxorus obese prim can tank band adamant, standard prim is still a roll
:Mandibuzz: Mandibuzz lol
:Sawk: Sawk aqua jet wins
:Whimsicott: Whimsicott whims wins as long as it knows the set

B+ Rank
:Aegislash: Aegislash encore
:Aromatisse: Aromatisse specs prim should be used more
:Avalugg: Avalugg aqua jet, or stall out avalugg with calm minds / encore versus band
:Cinderace: Cinderace if it's not stupidly bulky prim, band gunk shot wins (though be weary of misses)
:Hydreigon: Hydreigon it dragon
:Incineroar: Incineroar it fire
:Kommo-o: Kommo-o it dragon
:Kyurem: Kyurem even max spa choice specs kyurem is STILL a roll in prim's favor, and prim can ko back with weakness policy boosted moonblast
:Rillaboom: Rillaboom u got me
:Rotom-Wash: Rotom-Wash u got me^2
:Togekiss: Togekiss flinches can get in the way but generally it's in your favor
:Zeraora: Zeraora u got me^3

some of these are PROBABLY incorrect because i am infact a rusty player who contributes meaningless things to the thread and hasn't been good since gen 7 also 0-5qs
so like, 5 hard counters in the s- to b+ ranks. seeing as how primarina is running multiple sets to beat a big range of pokemon, it kinda makes me feel that it's similar to mimikyu, which you can take how you want. i'm not going to go into specifics because that's probably more for otr.

-> A-
now i know i'm gonna get flamed for this, but i think rotom-wash is very good in the meta and deserves a raise. seeing as how the 2 biggest threats to it (wood hammer mimikyu, trick jirachi) are gone, it thrives against choiced users that can get crippled from willowisp / eerie impulse. not to mention its scarf set that abuses ze trick which is probably one of the best moves in 1v1 right now. of course it has some bad high ranked matchups but for the most part it's quite solid, and i can definitely see a raise happening for it.

-> B-/C+
why even use this anymore? it loses its whole niche of being anti meta as primarina and darmg (scarf) are on top, plus jirachi and mimikyu are banned. it only holds the niche of being a ground type that can beat both rotom wash and rotom heat, but even then, it's forced to run scarf plus some spdef evs to even beat those two reliably.

-> B+
take it from the man who wrote both the band and scarf diggersby analyses himself, this mon is a GOAT in the current meta. being a fairy killer, steel killer, and having a powerful normal-type STAB is really good right now. obviously one of the top mons, darmg, can take it out easily with scarf, but other than that it has some really nice vr matchups and i'd like to see it move up to reflect how it is in battle.

things that i'm too lazy to give reasoning for:
down
down
(poison) s rank (joke)
 
Last edited:

SiceXV

Banned deucer.
:Dragapult: A to A+

You know I used to think this mon was super overrated, but after playing it may be a billion times on ladder, I think it definitely deserves to be ranked higher due to the recent meta changes.


Dragapult @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Def / 232 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- phantom force
- Disable
- Substitute
- Curse

Dragapult @ Choice Band
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Phantom Force
- Dragon Darts
- Fire Blast
- Outrage

Dragapult @ Haban Berry
Ability: Infiltrator / Clear Body
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Def / 164 SpA / 76 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Disable
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast / Shadow Ball

`
Dragapult @ Sitrus Berry
> Ability: Infiltrator
> EVs: 208 HP / 216 Def / 4 SpD / 80 Spe
> Timid Nature
> IVs: 0 Atk
> - Substitute
> - Disable
> - Will-O-Wisp
> - Shadow Ball

Dragapult @ Choice Specs
Ability: Clear Body / Infiltrator
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Hydro Pump / Thunder

Dragapult @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 216 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 36 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt

Dragapult @ Haban Berry
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 248 Atk / 136 Def / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Darts
- Disable
- Substitute

Thanks to Mimi getting banned, dragons have been going brazy on the ladder recently and this mon has benefitted a lot with rachi and Mimi both being gone even though it could've beat both of them depending on the sets. It's insane base 142 speed makes it the 2nd fastest viable mon in the tier and of course the fastest sub disable mon which beat almost any specs/band mon in the tier. It can beat one of the two S- ranked mons being darm galar, as it can reliably beat band, scarf darm loses to scarf pult, and encore darm is 50/50. The wisp set helps it beat all the sturdy mons and some set-up mons where before avalugg was a pretty safe check to pult with icicle spear. Curse-pult deals with some stall/normal types as DC3 effectively tilted me with it when I picked my stall lax into it. Also, the diverse move-set gives pult a lot of coverage and has an underrated 120 base attack. Most people with pult teams have a prim/sylveon killer alongside pult, so it can usually come down to a 50/50 which isn't the most ideal scenario.

The only reason I don't think it should be S- is because of the prevalence of fairies and that scarf pult isn't too common so someone could easily build a scarf mon to OHKO pult before it could get its sub up or attack.
 
Last edited:
1589156353917.png


B- —> B

-While I think Grimm isn't as good as in the brief period between mimi and jirachi ban, it still has a lot going for it. For example, it uses its awesome ability in Prankster to help set up against mons and then can attack to wear an opposing mon down. It also has a great movepool, decent stats (95 hp, 120 atk, 65 def, 95 spatk, 75 def, 60 spe), and lots of variability.
-Here are a few sets ive compiled/ made in the past week or so.


Grimmsnarl (M) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Reflect
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Taunt

-This sets ev’s give it the best chance vs jolly band vish, 102% roll iirc (Reflect —> Play rough —> Sucker Punch). Generally this is the best set against the bulk of the meta imo but has about the same matchups as bulky sitrus so up to opinion. It beats most physical attackers with reflect, can taunt stall mons, and has useful priority.

Grimmsnarl (M) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 24 Atk / 196 Def / 40 SpD
Careful Nature
- Reflect
- Sucker Punch
- Spirit Break
- Taunt

-This set tanks both physical and special Aegislash (Taunt —> Sucker Punch); It also tanks scarf gard, letting you 50/50 standard scarf gard 252 SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 40+ SpD Grimmsnarl: 332-392 (84.4 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.

Grimmsnarl (M) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 168 HP / 28 Atk / 176 Def / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spirit Break
- Sucker Punch
- Taunt
- Light Screen / Reflect

-This set tanks a dazzling gleam from timid Togekiss, outspeeds it after a trick, and has enough attack to KO toge. ~Light screen is to be set up t2 if they air slash for some reason. 252 SpA Togekiss Dazzling Gleam vs. 168 HP / 0 SpD Grimmsnarl: 314-372 (84.1 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, 28+ Atk Grimmsnarl Spirit Break vs. 40 HP / 12 Def Togekiss: 109-130 (33.9 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO, or if they dazzling gleam t1- +2 28+ Atk Grimmsnarl Spirit Break vs. 40 HP / 12 Def Togekiss: 220-259 (68.5 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, +2 28+ Atk Grimmsnarl Sucker Punch vs. 40 HP / 12 Def Togekiss: 102-120 (31.7 - 37.3%) -- 90.1% chance to 3HKO (68.5 + 31.7 = 100.2) - sorry for the mess of calcs :p

Grimmsnarl (M) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Bulk Up
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Taunt

-Sitrus still beats vish + beats sub cinderace. The ev’s are for the best chance vs band, non-iron head, Galarm.

Grimmsnarl (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Prankster / Pickpocket
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Atk / 88 Def / 16 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Spirit Break / Play rough
- Trick / Power Whip
- Superpower / Power Whip

-Band lets Grimmsnarl use more of its coverage moves and still be able to beat most stall with trick / power whip. The ev’s on it tank a 85 BP Band Dracovish Fishious Rend and Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump, with max attack.
 
Last edited:

clerica

fly me up to Jupiter
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Hello again it is I, smely socks, here with another mon created by both ME and Nalei. I know y'all were skeptical of pot, but I promise this next mon is good.

Introducing Ninetales
1589157737630.png

The secret tech:
Ninetales @ Salac Berry
Ability: Drought
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Endure
- Disable
- Pain Split
- Overheat/Solar Beam/Flamethrower
What do it do?
Ok this mon is kinda funky but has been successful on ladder. In testing it mostly beats choice mons along with a few other wonky mus. With endure you ensure that you live a hit and pop your salac berry. With a base speed stat of 100 you then ensure that you outspeed all relevant choice mons not named dragapult or unnerve scarf haxorus. From there you disable to struggle lock you opponent, pain split to get a struggle off, then overheat to finish them off. Having endure also ensures that if overheat fails to kill and you are low on health that you can get another struggle turn off and survive. This set is based off of nalei's gengar set that they used during PL but it also has slightly more bulk so you can beat mons like darm who deal 66% to your gengar with struggle
>:(


Added perks of this set
This set also has some unique gem mu's that I found in testing which include:
  • Beating non stall rotom wash (you need flamethrower or solar beam for this one in case they trick)
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Ninetales in Sun: 254-300 (88.1 - 104.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
  • Band dracovish (this is where you employ the endure stall to get struggle chip no solar beam necessary)​
  • A good matchup vs sylveon
    136 SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Ninetales: 86-102 (29.8 - 35.4%) -- 21% chance to 3HKO
    252 SpA Ninetales Flamethrower vs. 136 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon in Sun: 129-153 (35.3 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
  • Gardevoir (you 2ko it so if it tricks you they die and if they dont it's struggle time baby :3)​
In conclusion
Is ninetales the next mimikyu? Of course it isn't silly. What ninetales does do well is stopping choice threats and beating a handful of those pesky fairy types that are being spammed at this point in the meta. Right now it is sitting at a criminally underrated C- while its alolan cousin is in C. I propose that ninetales is in fact a B- mon. It does a great job at what you need it to do and although it has plenty of flaws it is an effective choice stopper and can finesse a win in a pinch.

Alolan ninetales can probably do all this as well so you all should make a set with that as well cause it can probably beat all the dragons basic ninetales can't beat


tldr: ninetales C- --> B-
 
Last edited:

Ehmcee

A Spoopy Ghost
is a Pre-Contributor
Hello again it is I, smely socks, here with another mon created by both ME and Nalei. I know y'all were skeptical of pot, but I promise this next mon is good.

Introducing Ninetales
View attachment 244593

The secret tech:
Ninetales @ Salac Berry
Ability: Drought
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Endure
- Disable
- Pain Split
- Overheat/Solar Beam/Flamethrower
What do it do?
Ok this mon is kinda funky but has been successful on ladder. In testing it mostly beats choice mons along with a few other wonky mus. With endure you ensure that you live a hit and pop your salac berry. With a base speed stat of 100 you then ensure that you outspeed all relevant choice mons not named dragapult or unnerve scarf haxorus. From there you disable to struggle lock you opponent, pain split to get a struggle off, then overheat to finish them off. Having endure also ensures that if overheat fails to kill and you are low on health that you can get another struggle turn off and survive. This set is based off of nalei's gengar set that they used during PL but it also has slightly more bulk so you can beat mons like darm who deal 66% to your gengar with struggle
>:(


Added perks of this set
This set also has some unique gem mu's that I found in testing which include:
  • Beating non stall rotom wash (you need flamethrower or solar beam for this one in case they trick)
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Ninetales in Sun: 254-300 (88.1 - 104.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
  • Band dracovish (this is where you employ the endure stall to get struggle chip no solar beam necessary)​
  • A good matchup vs sylveon
    136 SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Ninetales: 86-102 (29.8 - 35.4%) -- 21% chance to 3HKO
    252 SpA Ninetales Flamethrower vs. 136 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon in Sun: 129-153 (35.3 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
  • Gardevoir (you 2ko it so if it tricks you they die and if they dont it's struggle time baby :3)​
In conclusion
Is ninetales the next mimikyu? Of course it isn't silly. What ninetales does do well is stopping choice threats and beating a handful of those pesky fairy types that are being spammed at this point in the meta. Right now it is sitting at a criminally underrated C- while its alolan cousin is in C. I propose that ninetales is in fact a B- mon. It does a great job at what you need it to do and although it has plenty of flaws it is an effective choice stopper and can finesse a win in a pinch.

Alolan ninetales can probably do all this as well so you all should make a set with that as well cause it can probably beat all the dragons basic ninetales can't beat


tldr: ninetales C- --> B-
This also works with Gengar, to win matchups vs Sylveon and maybe Primarina if you add extra bulk, don't quote me on the last one.

Gengar @ Salac Berry
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 8 HP / 252 SpA / 248 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Endure
- Disable
- Pain Split
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top