Serious 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

[Celticpride]

UBI can either be framed as utopian or dystopian. Yang went for the latter, and I think that hurt the outlook on it. I’m pro-UBI, not because I think automation is going to eat all the jobs, but because I think at its core it’s a good idea in addition to other social programs. The message of Yang’s UBI was literally “let’s keep the capitalist machine going” not “let’s share our collective wealth more evenly.”

E: As far as a federal jobs guarantee goes, I don’t have a strong opinion on it. I do strongly agree with Bernie that there is work to do, and support him primarily because I believe he is the most committed to rebuilding infrastructure. Whether that gets done through some sort of jobs guarantee or w/e is rather irrelevant to me.

 

[Chou Toshio]

FINALLY we got a new Nevada Poll!!!!!!!
https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/...vadas-democratic-caucuses-poll-finds-1957583/
February 11-13

Sanders 25%
Biden 18%
Warren 13%
Steyer 11%
Buttegieg 10%
Klobuchar 10%



Booooooooooooooooommmm
(BTW yesterday Morning Consult also shocking the world with Bernie winning 29%-19% against Biden nationally, jumping 10 points to 48% hispanic support, and jumping 3 points to 30% Black support to Biden's 34%)

 

[Chou Toshio]

New South Carolina Poll Just came out too!
East Carolina University:
Biden 28 (-9)
Bernie 20% (+6)
Steyer 14%
Buttigieg 8%
Klobuchar/Warren 7%
Bloomberg 6%
(February 12-13)

Bernie surges into viability! lol
Others not so much.


Black Voters:
Biden 36%
Sanders 20%
Steyer 17%
Warren 7%
Bloomberg 5%
Buttigieg 4%
Klobuchar 0%

scary, Mayor Pete increasing his black support by 400%

 

[RaikouLover]

New South Carolina Poll Just came out too!
East Carolina University:
Biden 28 (-9)
Bernie 20% (+6)
Steyer 14%
Buttigieg 8%
Klobuchar/Warren 7%
Bloomberg 6%
(February 12-13)

Bernie surges into viability! lol
Others not so much.


Black Voters:
Biden 36%
Sanders 20%
Steyer 17%
Warren 7%
Bloomberg 5%
Buttigieg 4%
Klobuchar 0%

scary, Mayor Pete increasing his black support by 400%

Unfortunately, neither of those polls look good for Bernie. He’s currently benefiting from consolidating the young progressive left vote. His natural ceiling appears to be about 30%. The longer other candidates stay in the race, the better his chances. After a shellacking in more diverse states, expect to see more of the “mainstream “ candidates winnow themselves out of the race.

 

[Celticpride]

My boy Tommy S representing in NV and SC polls

 

[Chou Toshio]

Unfortunately, neither of those polls look good for Bernie. He’s currently benefiting from consolidating the young progressive left vote. His natural ceiling appears to be about 30%. The longer other candidates stay in the race, the better his chances. After a shellacking in more diverse states, expect to see more of the “mainstream “ candidates winnow themselves out of the race.

Everything you said I agree with— except that he has a ceiling. The fact that he’s consolidated while others still scramble has put him at the top of the polls— and every day he stays there his electability perception increases. It’s increased +10 in the morning consult poll, now making him significantly the most perceived electable candidate in the race. Remember this is the most popular Senator in the country, highest favorability of the candidates, universal name recognition. #2 choice by Joe Biden voters. Every day he is perceived as the front runner, the perception of his electability is going to increase— and as it does, people will get “the permission” to support the guy they already like. If he has a crushing win in Nevada, a largely union and Hispanic state...

And what this is is a race to become a national campaign. Biden’s organization is crumbling, Warren’s Bern crushed. These were the only two opponents that had anything like a national reach and infrastructure. Amy’s has no one in Nevada this whole time.

Bernie’s network of volunteers and organizers has been playing a country-wide game this whole time. He’s polling at 27% in the Super Tuesday states, while most candidates aren’t even viable there yet.

Don’t get me wrong— I am not at all underestimating the power of the DNC oligarchs & Bloomberg to tip the scale— but increasingly that is looking like it’s impossible without also destroying the future viability of the Democratic Party. And frankly, if they choose to self-destruct, and that’s the best this campaign can accomplish— I’ll take it!!

One way or another, we need a real viable labor party in this country— whether if is Bernie leading it or not.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Also the thing about an inter-generational battle (Bernie’s base vs Biden/Bloomberg’s) is that it only goes in one direction—

The digital gens can possibly persuade their working class grandparents but there is no way in hell the reverse is possible.
This is a one way offense vs defense battle— it’s a battle against time and hard heads, but it is a one-directional battle we can accelerate with momentum.

...and talking A LOT about Social Security.

 

[Machoke]

FINALLY a Nevada poll. Interesting that Biden is doing well there. If he could snag a top 2 that could maybe save his sinking ship enough to catch some steam going into SC then Super Tuesday. Hopefully he won't though lol.
Interesting how well Steyer is doing there too. I think Bernie could win Nevada but I'm curious to see who gets number 2 in the case that happens.

 

[Chou Toshio]

FINALLY a Nevada poll. Interesting that Biden is doing well there. If he could snag a top 2 that could maybe save his sinking ship enough to catch some steam going into SC then Super Tuesday. Hopefully he won't though lol.
Interesting how well Steyer is doing there too. I think Bernie could win Nevada but I'm curious to see who gets number 2 in the case that happens.

Union/Minority state
The demographics would be favorable for Biden if he wasn’t caving and acting like he’s already beat. The culinary not endorsing him is a loss for his cause. No endorsement for anyone coming from them is a win for Bernie.

 

[stexx]

all of the momentum is favorable for Bernie, the young demographic he appeals to will be the key to election if he can actually get the young voters to register & vote (we're pretty lazy).

 

[Chou Toshio]

Consistency. Sanders supporters have a tendency to use every opportunity to attack Democrats, yet are eerily silent about Republicans.

This definitely true about me so I can speak to it—the reason isn’t some big mystery or anything. It’s simple because:

A) There will always will be at least one party of the right and corrupt forces and the Republicans will always be that. The party can’t be destroyed.

B) From Reagan to the Tea Party to Trump there’s been constant populist take-overs of the Republican Party but it only gets more corrupt and evil each time— this party is impossible to reform to work for the people.

C) The Republicans simply are corrupt monsters so you shouldn’t be at all surprised that they act like it.

D) Given points A-C, there’s just no point and no productivity in maintaining outrage for the Republicans. Maintaining daily outrage at them accomplishes exactly nothing except emotional burn out. It’s especially meaningless when:

E) The Republicans aren’t the ones stopping the left from making reforms. It’s the Democrats.

The ridiculous, reactionary, and corrupt behavior of the liberal media and Democrat establishment is always infuriating but this election makes it blatantly clear who the enemy we’re fighting is.

I mean this is insane but try google searching “Bernie Sanders Frontrunner”, or for an article about this Nevada poll that just came out with him leading. Where are those articles?
The Federalist. National Review. Fox News. Wallstreet Journal. New York Post.
I recently watched Fox New’s Pieces on Iowa & New Hampshire and it’s shocking how much better & more accurate is than the vomit from MSNBC & CNN.

This is essentially why— because there’s no real point in spending excess time attacking the right because they don’t give a shit, it doesn’t do anything, and they’re not the primary thing standing in the way of the revolution anyway.

 

[willempju]

I mean this is insane but try google searching “Bernie Sanders Frontrunner”, or for an article about this Nevada poll that just came out with him leading. Where are those articles?
The Federalist. National Review. Fox News. Wallstreet Journal. New York Post.
I recently watched Fox New’s Pieces on Iowa & New Hampshire and it’s shocking how much better & more accurate is than the vomit from MSNBC & CNN.

Here you go https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/13/politics/bernie-sanders-pete-buttigieg-2020-race/index.html
I mean, I do feel that CNN has underestimated Sanders up until now but they are certainly not as negative as you make them out to be.

 

[stexx]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/15/poli...OCiwKeV0Quako5gkLedt06lPpvDaa0quOHYiVqxZQN1_w

guess he's taking nevada.

 

[Surgo]

I'm a VBNMW guy but if Mayor Stop'n'Frisk is the candidate I'm probably going to stay home on election day. That motherfucker isn't blue.

 

[GatoDelFuego]

I'm a VBNMW guy but

 

[Surgo]

You gonna sit here and argue that the two-term Republican mayor is blue?

 

[RaikouLover]

all of the momentum is favorable for Bernie, the young demographic he appeals to will be the key to election if he can actually get the young voters to register & vote (we're pretty lazy).

Young people are never keys to elections. They don’t vote consistently. The most reliable voters are older.

You gonna sit here and argue that the two-term Republican mayor is blue?

I encourage you to do your research because your insinuation is just wrong. He’s actually a lifelong Democrat that ran as a Republican in NYC for expediency (vs a crowded Democratic primary). He’s a mainstream Democrat on almost every issue.

https://www.ontheissues.org/mike_bloomberg.htm

 

[Celticpride]

Young people are never keys to elections. They don’t vote consistently. The most reliable voters are older.

Young people don’t vote because the candidates often don’t appeal to them. If you got a candidate who turned out young voters maybe they’d show up? And if older voters really are the most reliable they’d show up too, no?

 

[Machoke]

He’s a mainstream Democrat on almost every issue.

That's exactly the problem lmao.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Very Blue No Matter Who

But I’ve seen the same phenomenon as Surgo online. Mention Bloomberg as the candidate and suddenly you even see cracks in the Bernie Surrogates— even the most loyal look waffling and some have even come out and said they’d oppose.

All the voices in and around the campaign usually berating the Bernie-or-Bust crowd and trying to corral us, bring up Bloomberg and they are LOSING their NERVE on Twitter— either taking “Do what you feel is right” stances or outright lining up with Busters. Even Bernie, when you see him asked about Bloomberg his expression/conviction to support looks WEAK in his interview. If it is Bloomberg we might actually get the cone to Jesus moment where Bernie abandons the Democrats.

Hell WARREN doesn’t even look like she could vote Bloomberg based on her Twitter and neither do her voters. Even her Blue-No-Matter-Who-determination looking down right tepid with a possible Bloomberg candidacy.

If she can’t even stomach it, that should tell you about what will happen to “Party unity” if it happens. The party will end and Trump will definitely win.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Also, Problem is I and many are convinced that Trump is the lesser of these two evils. I’d rather a bumbling idiot who will be opposed by Democrats for 4 years than a super competent right wing facist getting 8 years unopposed because he’s presiding as a Democrat.

Nixon created the EPA.
Trump got his criminal justice reforms

Bill Clinton passed NAFTA and eliminated Glass Steagall.

If a GOP President wants to pass left wing legislation it’s stupidly easy to do so, and the opposite is even more true. Bloomberg would be an absolute atrocity for the future of everything.

 

[Surgo]

I encourage you to do your research

I encourage you to do yours.

I'm not voting for Mr Stop'n'Frisk. I'm not voting for the gun grabber. I'm not voting for the guy who defunded institutions by the state so he could then personally fund them and then withdraw that funding when they acted in ways he didn't like. I'm not voting for the guy who suddenly jumped into the race because he was afraid of losing his cash. And I sure as fuck am not voting for that racist, sexist piece of shit.

In the Democratic party, being openly racist and sexist is supposed to be disqualifying. Guess we'll see how true that is when confronted with Bloomberg's cash, now won't we?

 

[RaikouLover]

Also, Problem is I and many are convinced that Trump is the lesser of these two evils. I’d rather a bumbling idiot who will be opposed by Democrats for 4 years than a super competent right wing facist getting 8 years unopposed because he’s presiding as a Democrat.

That means you’re right wing. You can’t desire progress on climate, health care, and infrastructure while endorsing a Trump Presidency. Sorry but that’s a contradiction.

I encourage you to do yours.

I'm not voting for Mr Stop'n'Frisk. I'm not voting for the gun grabber. I'm not voting for the guy who defunded institutions by the state so he could then personally fund them and then withdraw that funding when they acted in ways he didn't like. I'm not voting for the guy who suddenly jumped into the race because he was afraid of losing his cash. And I sure as fuck am not voting for that racist, sexist piece of shit.

In the Democratic party, being openly racist and sexist is supposed to be disqualifying. Guess we'll see how true that is when confronted with Bloomberg's cash, now won't we?

Those are valid concerns and criticism. However, as I posted his objective governing record (which you ignored), Mayor Bloomberg is a mainstream Democrat on policy preferences. That means he is in support of progress on climate, health care, and infrastructure.

Young people don’t vote because the candidates often don’t appeal to them. If you got a candidate who turned out young voters maybe they’d show up? And if older voters really are the most reliable they’d show up too, no?

I vote for the platform; not for a candidate. I wish more did the same. If Daffy Duck has a plan to get to Medicare for all, I don’t much care if he’s “appealing” or not.

 

[willempju]

Also, Problem is I and many are convinced that Trump is the lesser of these two evils. I’d rather a bumbling idiot who will be opposed by Democrats for 4 years than a super competent right wing facist getting 8 years unopposed because he’s presiding as a Democrat.

Nixon created the EPA.
Trump got his criminal justice reforms

Bill Clinton passed NAFTA and eliminated Glass Steagall.

If a GOP President wants to pass left wing legislation it’s stupidly easy to do so, and the opposite is even more true. Bloomberg would be an absolute atrocity for the future of everything.

Yeah, millions of people will die if we do not immediately do something about climate change, so electing a climate change denier is most certainly the lesser of two evils...

 

[Chou Toshio]

Yeah, millions of people will die if we do not immediately do something about climate change, so electing a climate change denier is most certainly the lesser of two evils...

Trump= 4 years until opportunity to elect someone who will get us on the right path.

Centrist= 8
Bloomberg= 12+ since power definitely goes back to an even more radical Republican after his long and completely disastrous tenor completely unmolested by Democrats.