350 Cup

[n10siT]

Smeargle is pretty ridiculous, and as Eevee General pointed out there's no need for discussion on this contention. It needs to be removed from the metagame immediately.

I'm really loving Scraggy. 100/150/140/140/96 is a horrifying stat line, when you add in dragon dance, poison jab to hit grasses and xerneas, and dual stab, this thing is a monster. I've had a lot of success with it so far.

 

[NyneTiNyne]

Cores that have caught my eye lately:

or

Either one of these birds go perfectly with the resident steel trapper of the tier, Magnemite, who can get rid of annoying Honedge and Bronzor with relative ease due to Magnemite's massive 190 Special Attack in 350. Not much else to say here, getting rid of steels allow either bird to absolutely destroy the opposition. Rhyhorn has no reliable recovery, and as a result it can be easily weakened to the point where these strong birds can pick it off.

Fun fact, Magnemite itself can be a counter to Staravia, taking nothing from Brave Bird and taking less than half from Double Edge when scarfed. If you want it to counter Banded Staravia, you'll need to invest in Defense tho. After Magnemite takes 2 hits, it OHKO's with Thunderbolt. Substitute/Thunderbolt/Flash Cannon/Hidden Power Fire with Leftovers is a set I use a lot and it benefits greatly from stuff like Shroomish which cannot touch you behind your sub and is not able to break it. Also, I think this core can benefit greatly from a slow U-turner/Baton Passer/Volt-Switcher. You can U-turn/Baton Pass/Volt-Switch out and switch in eiter Staravia/Rufflet or Magnemite depending on which pokemon is out on the other side of the field. This way you get free switch-ins to Staravia/Rufflet and you can trap steels easier with Magnemite.

 

[Lcass4919]

can i ask why we are banning smeargle specificly and not just adding a "baton pass clause" like the other metas do? im just going to repeat myself:stop trying to pretend this meta is an ubers meta, it CAN be balanced. and in every balanced meta, the baton pass clause is in effect. ubers isnt balanced because it CANT be. theres too many offensive forces in that meta for it to have any form of balance. on top of it being a pseudo-banlist. 350 cup shouldnt be bunched with that logic purely because "lol ubers are in it"
also just another thing...

Imo Band Staravia isn't really that good because it really struggles to break through stall unless it's been BP'd an attack boost or something. 150 base attack and Reckless isn't as hard-hitting as it may seem.
Here's Band Staravia versus some common physical walls.
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staravia Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowpoke: 258-304 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staravia Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Intimidate Staravia: 207-244 (48.8 - 57.5%) -- 51.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staravia Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippopotas: 225-265 (47.2 - 55.6%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Keep in mind that if Staravia wants to run Adamant, it has to sacrifice outspeeding some important threats, including Vibrava. The corresponding calcs with Jolly are:

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staravia Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowpoke: 235-277 (41.6 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staravia Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Intimidate Staravia: 189-223 (44.5 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staravia Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippopotas: 205-243 (43 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

These are all versus non-resists. Take a Rock or Steel type and Staravia is almost completely hopeless. Bronzor and Honedge are popular choices that can easily beat Staravia.
And of course, it isn't doing much at -1.
Do not ban Staravia.

this is misleading, being able to 2hko the ONLY things with recovery that can tank brave bird from staravia WITHOUT sr damage is not "isn't doing much" especially when the only things that can take staravia on you end up with: one one with NO offensive presence(bronzor), and two that are both good/decent but have a massive special weakness(honedge and rhydon). all three of these lack recovery, and of them, only rhydon solidifies a niche in the meta enough to be used consistantly from what ive seen, and even then its not used enough. staravia is broken because it forces ALL teams to either risk a potential 2hko with the abformented three you run, or hope to god your opponent isnt smart enough to whittle down your only pseudo-counters you have on your team. lets not forget, staravia can potentially 2hko a pokemon with 180/130 defenses and has enough speed to outspeed ~70% of the offensive meta, WITH ADAMANT. this is half damage we are talking about, if staravia, hippo, or even slowpoke even take the SLIGHTEST damage by accident, they are no longer counters. that is HUGE especially if you pack something ELSE that requires them to switch in

also as a fyi, adamant staravia outspeeds timid 140's(vibrava) so it kinda outspeeds the entire relevant meta. just so you know.

also another fyi, ive been loving toxic spikes froakie as a partner to staravia, it whittles down most pokemon (barring zor/edge obs) and is strong/fast on its own, turns slowpoke/hippo into ez ko's and also makes non spore shroomish's job easier, letting it stall out would be potential destroyers easier like pdon.

 

[yoman5]

Firstly I'm 100% behind the smeargle ban. Too much versatility on 150 base speed with access to every hazard and status move that exists (dark void even beats grass trump) and moves like v-create (even with only 40 attack it could 2hko ferro) is already too strong even without considering the baton pass shenanigans (because of the doubled bulk smeargle has and the ability to screen for itself). Agree with ban

Staravia: I've been playing ubers basically since I've been on showdown. I think staravia is just a faster ho-oh without regenerate, ho oh was already basically unwallable as banded ho oh destroys stall and slower balance. That's its job. Staravia just destroys offense or balance instead. Also being basically stone cold to ghosts and rhyhorn beyond a smart uturn is holding it back. Leave it be. No Ban

Rufflet: I am currently undecided on. It is in fact nigh unwallable and at 120 speed, revenged by ditto and staravia. (Delibird banded hustle shard doesn't even kill it, I checked). However, it locks itself into a move to do these unwallable calcs and that can give up valuable free turns in an ubers meta. Letting things like megamence get up a ddance or ekiller set up an sd (don't even bring up rhyhorn 0 SpA Life Orb Arceus Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rhyhorn: 660-780 (126.1 - 149.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO) can be game ending. Scarfers are also not uncommon and when things like zekrom/kyuremW are carrying scarf it can be hard to have a good switchin. I'm not leaving a verdict on this mon yet, want to play more of the meta with rufflet in to decide. My ubers gut says don't ban, but it may be too strong for this meta.

Shroomish: I think that it's currently okay, given the prominence of bird spam and the actually rather large number of grass types viable. Also Mega Mewtwo Y has insomnia and will give shroomish a bad time. Please don't forget normal ubers still work, people. Also sleep talk ho oh. No ban.

Gothita was also brought up earlier and that's another that I think should be waited on. Mega gengar stayed ubers for a reason, and shed shell blissey is to this day a real thing in ubers. I think were this a non ubers meta I'd agree with a ban but I believe we should just let the meta adapt. Saying it can twave faster pokes is disingenuous because most of the pokemon on offense in this meta will absolutely tear gothita apart. Currently saying not banworthy.

As far as council I'd be willing to be on it, imas234, but make sure we get an odd number of council seats, even councils are obnoxious for suspects (If you weren't actually talking to me about saying if I'd like to be on the council let me know and I'll delete this part). I think having an ubers player on the council will help for perspective issues, and I plan to be active in this meta, at the very least as long as it's omotm.

I could also be the new thread host if need be (though I'd absolutely welcome someone more active/experienced in running metas step up and I'll gladly let someone else do it), though I'd appreciate support as I've never run a meta before, just helped.

 

[The Immortal]

Nobody is taking over this; we're not replacing TBK. imas is essentially filling my role so I don't have to observe the opinions of the players and make decisions, or I don't have to make a council. It's a temporary role for the month.

 

[Cave_Hamster_Cubone]

Well, as Staravia has already been mentioned, i'll show you the other members of the team i put together. Duskull has a ridiculous 180/180 Def/SpDef. I would use Shuckle for that but Duskull gets Will-O-Wisp and Hex, and I already have another hazard setter.Lemme show you this calc...
252+ SpA Primal Groudon Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Duskull in Harsh Sunshine: 114-135 (62.9 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery.
Shaymin Sky is seeming to do rather well here as a late game cleaner, it outspeeds a fair amount of the boosted mons and most of the mons who aren't. Choice Specs Serene Grace STAB Air Slash is actually ridiculous and don't even get me started on Seed Flare. I also have Grimer but he doesn't put as much work as the others. Smeargle is my hazard setter lead, I generally get 3 layers of Spikes, a Stealth Rock and a Sticky web up in one game. Croagunk is a priority Monster. Bullet punch takes out Clefairy in 3 hits, Vacuum wave is obligatory stab. You should the other two moves are a choice between Substitute, Fake Out, Nasty Plot and gunk shot. I use Substitute Fake Out because the extra damage has saved me many times. I don't know what to replace Grimer for, so if anyone has any suggestions, that'd be awesome!

 

[imas]

I was under the impression Smeargle was already banned (that's why I didn't do the quickban announce), but apparently it's not yet. So, Smeargle is officially banned.

Tagging The Immortal to update the ladder.

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

Why does no one use uber mons? Pdon and Yveltal are really strong. My team is basically my uber team, -forretress and xerneas, +Pineco and smeargle.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/350cup-300023679

Smeargle is disgusting and needs to go. The only counter's I've found are scarfed Birdspam, Foongus, and clefairy. I spent one day with an ubers team plus smeargle, and reached 37 on the ladder, no effort, no skill. At the top people can beat it, like with priority or insomnia, but the ladder? Smeargle passing to Pdon/Pogre/insert Uber here will wreak any nonspecialized team. Even at the top, I see people running insomnia on stuff like Delibird and Pumkaboo, which would rather be running hustle and not being on a team. You practically have to be running an Insomnia/vital spirit/magic bounce mon (or sleep talk I suppose but that's not that great), or you almost certainly lose a member to sleep. Even if you have an insomnia mon, they can shell smash on the switch and then pass. You stay in and they smash? No problem! They can just use their sash and then pass out next turn!

Of course, you can still use Torchic/Blaziken/Ninjask/Scolipede, but with the exception of Torchic those are still a thing in Ubers and aren't really a problem. What makes Smeargle bad is high speed, spore/dark void, and shell smash, which no one else has.

Edit: Missed imas234's post

 

[NyneTiNyne]

Well, as Staravia has already been mentioned, i'll show you the other members of the team i put together. Duskull has a ridiculous 180/180 Def/SpDef. I would use Shuckle for that but Duskull gets Will-O-Wisp and Hex, and I already have another hazard setter.Lemme show you this calc...
252+ SpA Primal Groudon Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Duskull in Harsh Sunshine: 114-135 (62.9 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery.
Shaymin Sky is seeming to do rather well here as a late game cleaner, it outspeeds a fair amount of the boosted mons and most of the mons who aren't. Choice Specs Serene Grace STAB Air Slash is actually ridiculous and don't even get me started on Seed Flare. I also have Grimer but he doesn't put as much work as the others. Smeargle is my hazard setter lead, I generally get 3 layers of Spikes, a Stealth Rock and a Sticky web up in one game. Croagunk is a priority Monster. Bullet punch takes out Clefairy in 3 hits, Vacuum wave is obligatory stab. You should the other two moves are a choice between Substitute, Fake Out, Nasty Plot and gunk shot. I use Substitute Fake Out because the extra damage has saved me many times. I don't know what to replace Grimer for, so if anyone has any suggestions, that'd be awesome!

I don't get you at all? Duskull getting 2HKO'd by P-Groudon, is that a good thing? Duskull does have sky high defenses of 180/180 but it also has a pityful 40 HP stat and no recovery. Shaymin Sky is pretty fast at 127, but from all the pokemon that get doubled stats, over 60 of them outspeed Shaymin Sky without any boosts. What does your Smeargle run? Because with triple hazards, it is either not running Spore/Dark Void, which makes it harder to find an opportunity to stack hazards, or either not running recovery which means, unless you battle an unexperienced player, you prob aren't going to get 5 turns to setup all those hazards before Smeargle goes down. Also, if I understand correctly, the set your Croagunk is running is Bullet Punch/Vacuum Wave/Substitute/Fake Out? I guess double priority is useful sometimes but triple priority? Without any normal damaging moves? And going mixed as well? The example you gave with Clefairy/Bullet Punch is very weird. One, it doesn't even 2HKO so Clefairy can Softboiled easily and 2, any STAB Poison move does more to it than Bullet Punch and you don't need the priority because you outspeed it anyways. Fighting/Poison STAB coverage is very good, so you should take advantage of that by either running Drain Punch and Gunk Shot/Poison Jab on a physical set or Vacuum Wave/Focus Blast and Sludge Bomb on a special set.

 

[canno]

Why does no one use uber mons?

Absolutely this. The Ubermons are still very strong in the metagame. For example (and on the subject of birbs) - Arceus is a great support / sweeper. I've been using Arceus-Rock's standard Uber set as a general bird check and it has been working out swell. For example:

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staravia Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Rock: 183-216 (41.3 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

and this is with me not investing in Defense (which I probably should, although not outspeeding Mega Mence sucks) - this is more what it should look like

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staravia Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Arceus-Rock: 136-161 (30.6 - 36.3%) -- 58.1% chance to 3HKO

and then you proceed to toss out a Wisp, a Judgement, or maybe a Defog if SR are up. Steel also does the same job, although I don't like Steel as much as a bird check because it gets melted by Ho-oh, another underrated Uber monster. Plus, while Mag does force it out, it can't trap Rockceus. It also unfortunately does get rekt by Rufflet's Superpower but at this point I think it's clear that Rufflet is basically unwallable in theory (that's not to say that it's unwallable in practice, since it is a CB Pokemon that has 80% acc on all of its moves)

It can also do SD (E-Killer or another type SD), CM, and support with other types such as Fairy and Water.

Some other Ubermon I haven't played around with that I think are still mighty powerful are Xerneus, Yveltal, Giratina, and Lugia amongst others.

 

[sin(pi)]

Regarding Rufflet, Darumaka is very comparable and I'm surprised nobody has done this yet; both get Hustle boosted 120 BP recoil-inducing STABs with Superpower and U-turn for coverage/momentum, 'maka hits harder but is slower (100 vs 120) and a bit frailer (140/90/90 vs 140/100/100). Rufflet has actual perfect coverage with Shadow Claw and Superpower, and can run a BU/Hone claws set to surprise some of its checks ('maka only gets flame charge/PuP as boosting moves) - it can even run a SH/LO set which is probably kinda bad with only Rock Slide boosted.

252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Darumaka Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 619-729 (153.2 - 180.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
vs
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Rufflet Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 582-685 (144 - 169.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
aka about an 8% increase in power over Rufflet

tl;dr:
Rufflet is slightly weaker but much faster, slightly bulkier and even harder to wall than Darumaka, who is banned. Banded sets destroy stall while it can feasibly run a scarf to run offense (and 120 speed + learning tailwind means it doesn't even need that).

(I edited my earlier post which has some neat calcs but I thought I'd repost this bit + add to it so more people could see)

 

[yoman5]

Regarding Rufflet, Darumaka is very comparable and I'm surprised nobody has done this yet; both get Hustle boosted 120 BP recoil-inducing STABs with Superpower and U-turn for coverage/momentum, 'maka hits harder but is slower (100 vs 120) and a bit frailer (140/90/90 vs 140/100/100). Rufflet has actual perfect coverage with Shadow Claw and Superpower, and can run a BU/Hone claws set to surprise some of its checks ('maka only gets flame charge/PuP as boosting moves) - it can even run a SH/LO set which is probably kinda bad with only Rock Slide boosted.

252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Darumaka Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 619-729 (153.2 - 180.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
vs
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Rufflet Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 582-685 (144 - 169.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
aka about an 8% increase in power over Rufflet

tl;dr:
Rufflet is slightly weaker but much faster, slightly bulkier and even harder to wall than Darumaka, who is banned. Banded sets destroy stall while it can feasibly run a scarf to run offense (and 120 speed + learning tailwind means it doesn't even need that).

(I edited my earlier post which has some neat calcs but I thought I'd repost this bit + add to it so more people could see)

A gap of 10% is huge. Doing 40-45% is a world apart from doing 50-55%. Not 2hkoing and 2hkoing is a massive gap. Don't try to use that comparison when the power gap is that large.

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mewtwo: 178-211 (50.4 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Zygarde Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mewtwo: 150-177 (42.4 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

Note the tier gap between these two mons. These kinds of calcs are not actually very helpful in furthering an argument.

 

[sin(pi)]

You misunderstood what I meant by 10%. I mean that a 10% difference in power levels is the difference between taking 40% and 44% of your opponent's HP.

If you look at the list of calcs I provided (previous page), Rufflet 2HKOs more or less EVERYTHING.

 

[Thatwackycruton]

If this thread is just for general discussion on the metagame, then what do you guys think of AV lombre? Bird spam makes its life hard, but there's next to no special attackers in the game that can break past it, and it has some recovery in giga drain. It's stats being 120/100/100/120/140/100, this is the spread I would run.

Doc Wattson (Lombre) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Swift Swim
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Knock Off

This set is very adept at taking on common special attackers, although it doesn't like Gastly. Since I looked into lombre, I thought of Nuzleaf, too, and although it's probably outclassed by Carvanah and other darks. 140/140/80/120/80/120 is very solid though and actually decently bulky.

 

[imas]

Hello again, among the peoplr i tagged Lcass4919 , yoman5 and The Reptile have shown interest in being part of a council. So, they'll be acting as a 3 man council and will be deciding on what to suspect for the rest of the month!

Grats guys, I'm sure you'll do a great job. :]

 

[Meek Miltank]

If this thread is just for general discussion on the metagame, then what do you guys think of AV lombre? Bird spam makes its life hard, but there's next to no special attackers in the game that can break past it, and it has some recovery in giga drain. It's stats being 120/100/100/120/140/100, this is the spread I would run.

Doc Wattson (Lombre) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Swift Swim
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Knock Off

This set is very adept at taking on common special attackers, although it doesn't like Gastly. Since I looked into lombre, I thought of Nuzleaf, too, and although it's probably outclassed by Carvanah and other darks. 140/140/80/120/80/120 is very solid though and actually decently bulky.

gastly is banned bro. i run hp fire over knock off

 

[Funbot28]

Will there be a VR soon? As i would like to help make it if so, really enjoy his meta

 

[imas]

I'll take the opportunity to clarify that there will not be any new council members unless one of the current ones become unavailable. The council is at an odd number rn so that no issue arises when voting for what to suspect.

I mainly wanted to get a council up because I didn't want to be deciding what to suspect in a meta I don't play. The current council play this pretty actively and are therefore better suited for this position.

 

[~BLOOM~]

I find mankey is criminally underused for a pokemon with the near strength of Drilbur and 4 base points more speed. 160/140 is not a bad physically offensive spread by any means, not even in Ubers, and with access to Close Combat, U-turn, Poison Jab, Rock Slide, Taunt, Night Slash, and Overheat, Mankey's Life Orb 4 attacks set is near uncounterable considering there are no hard counters to all those moves.

 

[yoman5]

I find mankey is criminally underused for a pokemon with the near strength of Drilbur and 4 base points more speed. 160/140 is not a bad physically offensive spread by any means, not even in Ubers, and with access to Close Combat, U-turn, Poison Jab, Rock Slide, Taunt, Night Slash, and Overheat, Mankey's Life Orb 4 attacks set is near uncounterable considering there are no hard counters to all those moves.

Mankey is sadly largely outclassed by mienfoo who has regenerator as well as access to fake out and knock off. Mankey's only niche over mienfoo is Vital spirit to deal with shroomish (though I will admit gunk shot allows it to kill clefairy). Also I believe Giratina (one of the first physical walls that comes to my head in an ubers metagame) Can easily switch in on any mankey set: 252 Atk Life Orb Mankey Night Slash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 148-177 (29.4 - 35.1%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery.

Also in relation to the council we may make the decisions but we aren't tyrants, feel free to let us know issues you have with the metagame or pokemon you find too strong. I believe Rufflet is currently the biggest issue that will be discussed first.

 

[Meek Miltank]

Well, you weren't nommed by anyone and you're new to smogon it seems (judging from the postcount). So I will have to decline.

I'll also take the opportunity to clarify that there will not be any new council members unless one of the current ones become unavailable. The council is at an odd number rn so that no issue arises when voting for what to suspect.

I mainly wanted to get a council up because I didn't want to be deciding what to suspect in a meta I don't play. The current council play this pretty actively and are therefore better suited for this position.

sorry for late replay but ive been around since 2012 with my other account i lost the password to, and am top 3 on the 350 ladder as i make this (proof: http://prntscr.com/9a517) . I believe with my knowledge and skill and I would make a valuable addition to the council. and adding two more members couldnt hurt. but if theres no other council members i guess im s.o.l. no one really knows me thats posted or plays this so i dont know how necessarily fair non self noms are?

update: ayee im #1 on 350 ladder http://prntscr.com/9af6om
oml its hard to ladder when u get +7 for a win and -20 for a loss :[
patience on a new young ladder

 

[Cave_Hamster_Cubone]

I don't get you at all? Duskull getting 2HKO'd by P-Groudon, is that a good thing? Duskull does have sky high defenses of 180/180 but it also has a pityful 40 HP stat and no recovery. Shaymin Sky is pretty fast at 127, but from all the pokemon that get doubled stats, over 60 of them outspeed Shaymin Sky without any boosts. What does your Smeargle run? Because with triple hazards, it is either not running Spore/Dark Void, which makes it harder to find an opportunity to stack hazards, or either not running recovery which means, unless you battle an unexperienced player, you prob aren't going to get 5 turns to setup all those hazards before Smeargle goes down. Also, if I understand correctly, the set your Croagunk is running is Bullet Punch/Vacuum Wave/Substitute/Fake Out? I guess double priority is useful sometimes but triple priority? Without any normal damaging moves? And going mixed as well? The example you gave with Clefairy/Bullet Punch is very weird. One, it doesn't even 2HKO so Clefairy can Softboiled easily and 2, any STAB Poison move does more to it than Bullet Punch and you don't need the priority because you outspeed it anyways. Fighting/Poison STAB coverage is very good, so you should take advantage of that by either running Drain Punch and Gunk Shot/Poison Jab on a physical set or Vacuum Wave/Focus Blast and Sludge Bomb on a special set.

Sorry I was just getting a feel for the meta. With the Smeargle I have no recovery, but i was planning on replacing spikes for recover. Croagunk did three-shot a clefairy but I was pretty low down on ladder so maybe they built it wrong? Also I felt a mixed attacker would be alrightbecause then i can take out a specific defensive wall. I was just saying with duskull that I had something to switch in to if need be so i get a free switch the next turn. I have to replace smeargle and grimer now anyway soo... And i need to get rid of shaymon sky, he is power but not as fast so he is kinda a dead weight.

 

[Miracolous Ladyba]

I'm the only one who find clefairy annoying?
I mean.
You can't OHKO it even with Gunk shot Adamant life orb skrelp.

 

[NyneTiNyne]

I'm the only one who find clefairy annoying?
I mean.
You can't OHKO it even with Gunk shot Adamant life orb skrelp.

Clefairy is very annoying because it has good bulk paired with a wonderful ability which makes it not care about status that walls throw at it. Clefairy also has a lot of coverage options in Flamethrower, Ice Beam, etc. and it's Calm Mind set is very powerful. It's really a Clefable on steroids and everyone knows how stupid Clefable can be.

 

[Miracolous Ladyba]

Clefairy is very annoying because it has good bulk paired with a wonderful ability which makes it not care about status that walls throw at it. Clefairy also has a lot of coverage options in Flamethrower, Ice Beam, etc. and it's Calm Mind set is very powerful. It's really a Clefable on steroids and everyone knows how stupid Clefable can be.

Clefairy is even beyond Giratina, or clefable. With clefable, sheer power works, with clefairy you need to play Gothita. And that's really lame and sad.
For all the treat in this OM you have multiple good choice, but vs clefairy you need some shadow tag

 

[NyneTiNyne]

Clefairy is even beyond Giratina, or clefable. With clefable, sheer power works, with clefairy you need to play Gothita. And that's really lame and sad.
For all the treat in this OM you have multiple good choice, but vs clefairy you need some shadow tag

Yeah lol even Magnemite can't 2HKO it 100% of the time without Life Orb

 

[Miracolous Ladyba]

Yeah lol even Magnemite can't 2HKO it 100% of the time without Life Orb

At least Koffing deal good with Ferroseed+Clefairy lol

 

[xJownage]

I'm available for council if needed, I was a big part of 350 originally and have been pretty active on the ladder.

Somebody needs to plan on making viability rankings soon, I'm strapped for time right now.

And in my ladder experience, Rufflet is broken as fuck and needs to go. This thing rips apart all playstyles with a choice band equipped, it's sheer power allowing it to 2hko offensive resists most teams would utilize to check flying types, forcing every team into a psuedo-bulky offense/balance just to survive every time this thing switches in.

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

I'm available for council if needed, I was a big part of 350 originally and have been pretty active on the ladder.

Somebody needs to plan on making viability rankings soon, I'm strapped for time right now.

And in my ladder experience, Rufflet is broken as fuck and needs to go. This thing rips apart all playstyles with a choice band equipped, it's sheer power allowing it to 2hko offensive resists most teams would utilize to check flying types, forcing every team into a psuedo-bulky offense/balance just to survive every time this thing switches in.

Strangely, I never struggle with it. For offensive teams, you can run a suicide lead of pineco (custap) with stealth rock and explosion. After SR damage and BB recoil, Rufflet is pretty much out. With a band, it has no recovery, is killed by priority (espeed from Rayquaza/Arceus/MegaLuc or sucker punch from Yveltal (I run Ekiller Arceus and Yveltal). At most, it kills 1 mon.
Here's the Pineco set:
Pineco @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 120 Def / 140 SpD
Impish Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion

It also beats the bird if it comes in, with its custap explosion, and is an incredible support for my team. Rapid spin lets it beat most leads, and those it doesn't are beat by explosion.