350 Cup

[Bassie!]

Ferroseed is rlly bulky because of its stats doubled, its so bulky that only fire types can kill this thing or the rare special fighting types. If someone just has a mon to kill all those fire types along with ferroseed its very hard to win. Grass types cant do anything against it cuz they lose to toxic. Physical attackers get crippled a lot by his ability. I think this thing is broken and deserves to be banned.

 

[Funbot28]

Ferroseed is rlly bulky because of its stats doubled, its so bulky that only fire types can kill this thing or the rare special fighting types. If someone just has a mon to kill all those fire types along with ferroseed its very hard to win. Grass types cant do anything against it cuz they lose to toxic. Physical attackers get crippled a lot by his ability. I think this thing is broken and deserves to be banned.

Until it gets trapped and KO'ed by Magnemite...

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

Ferroseed is rlly bulky because of its stats doubled, its so bulky that only fire types can kill this thing or the rare special fighting types. If someone just has a mon to kill all those fire types along with ferroseed its very hard to win. Grass types cant do anything against it cuz they lose to toxic. Physical attackers get crippled a lot by his ability. I think this thing is broken and deserves to be banned.

Yveltal learns heat wave, which ohkos/2hko's depending on investment. Special Arceus get fire blast, if you struggle with it. Groudon Ohko's with fire punch. Torchic/Blaziken beat it. Mewtwo gets Fire Blast/ Flamethrower for special or fire punch for X. Ho-oh easily stomps it. Geoxern gets focus blast, which also stomps Groudon. Almost every Uber can beat it, because fire blast has such good distribution, and a lot of what misses out on that gets flamethrower. You really shouldn't be struggling with your team. Besides, any Fire counter, unless max speed POgre, dies to swords dance PDon.

 

[Snareth]

I just wanted to know what y'all's opinion on Staryu was in this metagame. Absolutely no one is talking about it but I believe there's some merit to its use.

60/90/110/140/110/170

I feel that Staryu's low HP gets in the way immensely but the amount of support this cutie can offer with screens, TWave and spin can be a big boon for teams, I'd imagine. Its low HP is somewhat mediated by both defense stats being a respectable 110 each, plus we all know it has access to Recover (or Pain Split to catch slower healthy mons off guard late game) and Natural Cure as an ability.

I know that base 140 isn't gamebreaking in this tier but it's still nothing to scoff at. We musn't Staryu has very attractive coverage options (Scald/Surf/Pump, Thunder(bolt), Ice Beam/Blizzard, Dazzling Gleam, Psychic...) coming off that deliciously high 170 speed stat.

Poor thing faces some competition for a variety of roles in a team what with this tier having an abundance of amazing Water types... But it's so very unpredictable. Thoughts? What kind of set would you run?

 

[skies]

Snover @ Life Orb
Ability: Snow Warning
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Substitute
- Giga Drain
- Blizzard
- Ice Shard

120 / 124 / 100 / 124 / 120 / 80

Snover is an interesting Pokemon that I've been testing out recently. It's got solid offensive stats, decent bulk, and its STAB moves hit a wide array of Pokemon. A powerful Ice Shard is great in a tier with a bunch of Flying-types, and when Shroomish is running around, a nice and powerful Blizzard to smack it around. Not much too it; set up a Substitute, launch off Blizzards, and use Ice Shard to pick off pesky Pokemon later in the match. Interesting Pokemon, but still kind of weak and its typing is bad. Useful to force switches against slow Pokemon, however. o0

 

[Skankovich]

Flyspam is strong here, I'm finding Ho-Oh + Rufflet/Staravia is a really potent combo, Ho-Oh smacking steel type resists like honedge with sacred fire or burning the rock type resists with the move, which wears them down quickly as most lack recovery, allowing the other two to clean up with their superior speed and insane power in their STABs.

Plus, hazard control is really easy here with plenty of good defoggers and spinners- my favourite is Vibrava for its great speed tier, STAB combo, recovery and ability to beat the most common rocker in Groudon-P.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

Snover @ Life Orb
Ability: Snow Warning
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Substitute
- Giga Drain
- Blizzard
- Ice Shard

120 / 124 / 100 / 124 / 120 / 80

Snover is an interesting Pokemon that I've been testing out recently. It's got solid offensive stats, decent bulk, and its STAB moves hit a wide array of Pokemon. A powerful Ice Shard is great in a tier with a bunch of Flying-types, and when Shroomish is running around, a nice and powerful Blizzard to smack it around. Not much too it; set up a Substitute, launch off Blizzards, and use Ice Shard to pick off pesky Pokemon later in the match. Interesting Pokemon, but still kind of weak and its typing is bad. Useful to force switches against slow Pokemon, however. o0

Really under rated threat right here, Abomasnow has a few more coverage options but at least Snover doesn't take up a mega slot.


Flying spam is decent but with shit like Larvitar in the meta, it's not exactly centralizing. Speaking of...Larvitar has DD, Stab QuakeEdge, Taunt, and Guts so do yourself a favor and be ready for it.

 

[yoman5]

Really under rated threat right here, Abomasnow has a few more coverage options but at least Snover doesn't take up a mega slot.


Flying spam is decent but with shit like Larvitar in the meta, it's not exactly centralizing. Speaking of...Larvitar has DD, Stab QuakeEdge, Taunt, and Guts so do yourself a favor and be ready for it.

Why would you use larvitar when tyranitar is better defensively? larvitars only advantage over ttar is 82 base speed instead of 61, not exactly fast in this meta either.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

Why would you use larvitar when tyranitar is better defensively? larvitars only advantage over ttar is 82 base speed instead of 61, not exactly fast in this meta either.

Well like you said Larvitar has 82 speed instead of 61 which actually matters on a DD set. Also, Larvitar is more suited to fulfill a DD role not only because of more speed, but Guts and T-Wave immunity, as well. TTar only has 10 more points in defense than Larvitar in terms of bulk, the HP and SpD are the exact same. Only 6 more points in attack. That +21 speed and guts matters a lot on a DD set. Taunt lets it shut down utility walls and dance for free, while stab quake/edge is better than stab crunch/edge imo, lets it muscle past fighting types more easily.

 

[yoman5]

Well like you said Larvitar has 82 speed instead of 61 which actually matters on a DD set. Also, Larvitar is more suited to fulfill a DD role not only because of more speed, but Guts and T-Wave immunity, as well. TTar only has 10 more points in defense than Larvitar in terms of bulk, the HP and SpD are the exact same. Only 6 more points in attack. That +21 speed and guts matters a lot on a DD set. Taunt lets it shut down utility walls and dance for free, while stab quake/edge is better than stab crunch/edge imo, lets it muscle past fighting types more easily.

Guts is a niche I hadn't thought of, but 82 is still slow in this meta and outsped by many non scarfers at +1. Taunt is greedy as edgequake leaves you walled by ferro and leaves you no coverage for knocking out bulkmons with se hits.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

All the Ferroseed I've seen get 2hko after leftovers at +1 by quake, maybe cause I run adamant I'm not sure. With +1 and a burn, literally Nothing wants to take a hit. It's still sorta slow at +1 but outpaces a ton of defensive mons, which is entirely the point of using this.

 

[yoman5]

Not bad as a sweeper but I don't think an offensive larvitar is a bird check/counter:

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staravia Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Larvitar: 195-231 (57.1 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The problem is that nobody is is going to burn you on purpose, and if you take even a few turns of burn (or chip damage while setting up) staravia can kill you, as at +1 speed you're outsped and as you can see take a healthy chunk. Larvitar is certainly a mon to watch out for but I wouldn't call it something that makes bird spam bad.

 

[~BLOOM~]

As previously mentioned, I think the gifts to pokemon under 350 BST give newer players a sense of "tunnel vision" seeing no options other than 350- mons. Ubers are still very viable, especially Salamence-Mega, who can adapt to the physical threats it has to deal with through mixed and even entirely special sets.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Not to mention how Primal Groudon adapts to everything and literally dominates the metagames it's allowed in - see Mix and Mega.

Fitting on literally ever playstyle and making like... Almost every fire/water/groudon type unviable just because of its presence is outstanding.

 

[I like donkeys]

One Pokemon I have been astounded with recently is Geomancy Xerneas. This guy is so underrated (for some reason) that no one seems to prepare for it, often times letting me sweep whole teams with ease. For example AllJokesAside the stall team you posted is trashed by Geoxern (after prior damage):

truckloads of calcs

Slowpoke:
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Slowpoke: 543-639 (96.4 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO (OHKO after rocks)
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Slowpoke: 632-744 (112.2 - 132.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
lol nope

Skarmory:
(of course every calc here requires prior damage because sturdy, so Skarm can whirlwind Xern out and stop a sweep if at full health)
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 305-359 (91.5 - 107.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO (OHKO after rocks)
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 387-456 (116.2 - 136.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
and you know i don't need to calc thunder

Foongus:
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Psychic vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Foongus: 366-432 (76.2 - 90%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Foongus: 324-382 (67.5 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Foongus: 244-288 (50.8 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So i was actually surprised by this, turns out Foongus can live any of Xerneas' moves at +2 and retaliate with spore/clear smog, and has great longevity due to regenerator. You will need to weaken this before Xerneas can do it's job. Good work Foongus. (I might start running psychic lol)

Groudon-Primal
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 201-237 (49.7 - 58.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 256-302 (63.3 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. 88 HP / 108 Def Xerneas: 169-199 (40.7 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
All pdon can do is eq, so he's doomed

Clefairy
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefairy: 361-426 (74.5 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So Clefairy can live any hit and retaliate with thunder wave i suppose, then switch to Foongus and use clear smog?

Yveltal
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Yveltal: 918-1082 (201.7 - 237.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes

rip

Now admittedly Xern can only setup safely against Yveltal and Pdon, so aside from Foongus you need to taunt anything else before Xern can safely setup.

Anyway I implore everyone to properly prepare for GeoXern along with other Uber threats like Pdon, MegaMence, and Yveltal, because if you don't then it's just too easy for us ;)

 

[canno]

I know you're referring to AllJokesAside's PDon (which it should run Precipice Blade precisely because of the calc that's coming in later) but I don't want anyone to interpret that as "Xern beats PDon" when that is not the case 90% of the time. PDon can Roar it out or Thunder Wave it if its standard support, while offensive sets can 2HKO without a doubt. Also:

0 Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 184 HP / 28 Def Xerneas: 220-259 (50.1 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Prec Blades is a good option on support team if you have no way of dealing with Xern

I'm not trying to underplay Xern at all here (Hell I'm going to use this post to tell AllJokesAside that running either Roar or Precipice Blades on that set is probably better because of Xern) - Xern is an absolutely monstrous sweeper that, while it has more checks (Foongus, Bronzor, ect) is still a destructive monster. I just really want to stress this to other people - Xern does not set up on pdon 90% of the time unless its ResTalk, doesn't have Prec Blades, or is running SR / EQ / Plume / DTail.

 

[xJownage]

Flying spam is utterly ridiculous in this meta because of the number of options available and the reliability of a single spinner; staryu. Staryu's base 170 makes it the perfect spinner, and here's a list of some of the options flying spam teams can abuse.

Fletchling
Staravia
Rufflet
Yveltal
Ho-oh
Mega Salamence
Shaymin-Sky
Doduo

Not to mention a number of more niche but still effective options, as well as a great magnet puller in Magnemite, birdspam is just ridiculous.

 

[yoman5]

Flying spam is utterly ridiculous in this meta because of the number of options available and the reliability of a single spinner; staryu. Staryu's base 170 makes it the perfect spinner, and here's a list of some of the options flying spam teams can abuse.

Fletchling
Staravia
Rufflet
Yveltal
Ho-oh
Mega Salamence
Shaymin-Sky
Doduo

Not to mention a number of more niche but still effective options, as well as a great magnet puller in Magnemite, birdspam is just ridiculous.

Birdspam has a pretty hard time with honedge, rhyhorn, ditto, and a few other solid, common mons. It's not bad, by any means, but it's not overpowered by any stretch. Rufflet is currently being discussed for a ban.

 

[jackm]

Birdspam has a pretty hard time with honedge, rhyhorn, ditto, and a few other solid, common mons. It's not bad, by any means, but it's not overpowered by any stretch. Rufflet is currently being discussed for a ban.

The big issue is that there are key members of birdspam that can easily blow through a team's dedicated Flying wall. Shaymin-S with Earth Power, Air Slash, and Seed Flare easily smashes through Rhyhorn and Honedge, and those which can take on Shaymin-S--such as Bronzor and Skarmory--are trappable with Magnemite and immensely pressured by Ho-oh's Sacred Fire. Hell, if you're feeling fun you could run a special Salamence-Mega set with Hyper Voice/Fire Blast/Hydro Pump/filler and wreck pretty much every check that would normally be able to deal with you, paving the way for Staravia or something similar to clean. From the (admittedly limited) experience I have with the metagame, birdspam seems to be a very strong and centralizing force which is not as easily checked as you make it out to be.

 

[Manchamp]

Birdspam has a pretty hard time with honedge, rhyhorn, ditto, and a few other solid, common mons. It's not bad, by any means, but it's not overpowered by any stretch. Rufflet is currently being discussed for a ban.

It is definitely borderline OP. I don't think I have played any good player not using either Staravia, Rufflet, or Salamence. They're all key wall breakers and most often a teams MVP, or win condition, if you will. I run Rhydon on my main team, and Honedge on my other. Bulky Rock/Steel type is a role for only one mon on a Balance team, so I don't double up because I need resistances to other types. Anyway, birdspam teams always have an offensive water or ground type like Drilbur, Froakie, Staryu, Kyogre, etc. to deal with bird-walls.
The existence of tough rock or steel types doesn't make Birdspam bad because there is also a plentiful selection of Pokemon to remove them. Magnemite and MegaGar come to mind because they can trap, otherwise PKyogre and PDon, many more.
Also can someone explain why Rufflet is being suspected and not Staravia? I realize Hustle is the thing Rufflet has over Star, and that allows it (when it hits) to 2HKO the entire meta game, but Staravia can 2HKO about 85% of it too, is quite noticably faster, has priority, and Reckless which gets it closer to a power level. Star also runs a much more effective Scarf set. I think they are both equally OP, if not Star more so.

 

[yoman5]

It is definitely borderline OP. I don't think I have played any good player not using either Staravia, Rufflet, or Salamence. They're all key wall breakers and most often a teams MVP, or win condition, if you will. I run Rhydon on my main team, and Honedge on my other. Bulky Rock/Steel type is a role for only one mon on a Balance team, so I don't double up because I need resistances to other types. Anyway, birdspam teams always have an offensive water or ground type like Drilbur, Froakie, Staryu, Kyogre, etc. to deal with bird-walls.
The existence of tough rock or steel types doesn't make Birdspam bad because there is also a plentiful selection of Pokemon to remove them. Magnemite and MegaGar come to mind because they can trap, otherwise PKyogre and PDon, many more.
Also can someone explain why Rufflet is being suspected and not Staravia? I realize Hustle is the thing Rufflet has over Star, and that allows it (when it hits) to 2HKO the entire meta game, but Staravia can 2HKO about 85% of it too, is quite noticably faster, has priority, and Reckless which gets it closer to a power level. Star also runs a much more effective Scarf set. I think they are both equally OP, if not Star more so.

Noteably Rufflet has access to fighting type coverage while staravia does not. That is basically the key factor alongside the slightly more powerful if inaccurate attacks.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

Flying spam is really good here, I'm not denying that. I'm not yet convinced it's overly centralizing either though. Rufflett is pretty damned good, after all but hustle makes it high risk/high reward. Similar to band Durant in RU. That 20% accuracy drop won't matter when you land a hit, but when you miss a clutch hit(basically inevitable with band) it won't be fun.
Staravia can be forced out by almost any generic steel so I don't think it's anywhere close to broken, but it is for sure a good mon in 350.




Edit*
Upon consideration of Ruffletts high accuracy Stabs and coverage, it might be broken. It will be hitting much more than it misses and those hits will be devastating. More of a low risk/high reward, when considering that. It will miss though and when it does miss it wont be fun.

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

It is definitely borderline OP. I don't think I have played any good player not using either Staravia, Rufflet, or Salamence. They're all key wall breakers and most often a teams MVP, or win condition, if you will. I run Rhydon on my main team, and Honedge on my other. Bulky Rock/Steel type is a role for only one mon on a Balance team, so I don't double up because I need resistances to other types. Anyway, birdspam teams always have an offensive water or ground type like Drilbur, Froakie, Staryu, Kyogre, etc. to deal with bird-walls.
The existence of tough rock or steel types doesn't make Birdspam bad because there is also a plentiful selection of Pokemon to remove them. Magnemite and MegaGar come to mind because they can trap, otherwise PKyogre and PDon, many more.
Also can someone explain why Rufflet is being suspected and not Staravia? I realize Hustle is the thing Rufflet has over Star, and that allows it (when it hits) to 2HKO the entire meta game, but Staravia can 2HKO about 85% of it too, is quite noticably faster, has priority, and Reckless which gets it closer to a power level. Star also runs a much more effective Scarf set. I think they are both equally OP, if not Star more so.

Do Torchic/Blaziken count as birds here? Because I use both, but they don't run flying attacks. Similarly, I run Yveltal, but it's special.
I think you're making some major generalizations, because that isn't true.

 

[Jajoken]

Do Torchic/Blaziken count as birds here? Because I use both, but they don't run flying attacks. Similarly, I run Yveltal, but it's special.
I think you're making some major generalizations, because that isn't true.

Birdspam is a team archetype that originated in OU, and involves stacking 2-3 Pokemon with powerful Flying STAB together in order to break through teams that only have a few ineffective flying resists (Bisharp, for example). It has nothing to do with actually being a bird -- Mega Pinsir is a staple of these teams and it's obviously not a bird lol. Blaziken would not directly be part of birdspam, and Yveltal might be. I've heard people talk about Mega Pidgeot on birdspam teams, but usually they're mostly physical (utilizing Brave Bird, hence birdspam). The problem is Oblivion Wing/Hurricane aren't as inherently spammable for consistent massive damage, so I don't think it really counts.

 

[Manchamp]

Do Torchic/Blaziken count as birds here? Because I use both, but they don't run flying attacks. Similarly, I run Yveltal, but it's special.
I think you're making some major generalizations, because that isn't true.

I'm confused as to what you are saying isn't true. The point about flying spam getting walled by only rock and steel types, or that Staravia is just as good as Rufflet?

Flying spam is really good here, I'm not denying that. I'm not yet convinced it's overly centralizing either though. Rufflett is pretty damned good, after all but hustle makes it high risk/high reward. Similar to band Durant in RU. That 20% accuracy drop won't matter when you land a hit, but when you miss a clutch hit(basically inevitable with band) it won't be fun.
Staravia can be forced out by almost any generic steel so I don't think it's anywhere close to broken, but it is for sure a good mon in 350.

I think the fact that Staravia is forced out by any generic steel almost makes it better, because, it gets U-Turn.
Staravia (being only forced out by steel/rock types [Pdon is 2HKOd]) comes into the battle and forces you to switch into your steel type (unless your mon is scarfed, in which case good for you, nows your chance to try and kill the bird) and can then U-Turn out to Magnemite who will trap and kill the steel. Next time Star comes in there is no switchin. The exceptions are Honedge, Rhydon, (Geodude?), and Rock Arceus, because they aren't trapped by Magnemite. There's still Trapinch and Diglett tho...