Battle Tree Discussion and Records

[Smuckem]

As of right now, the QR3 has no representation for the popular KokoChu core, and the one sample we had on there disappeared a while back due to me running out of space for QR teams on my PGL account (for now...). So, I am going to take a slightly different tack and add a team from outside the Smogon galaxy. Check out this entry from binman (on the Battle Tree Discord):

https://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/rentalteam/sm/BT-440F-909C

As you'll see, this is very much an Electric Surge abuse team, supported by MegaMence for those pesky Ground-types.

 

[Mugenman88]

Got my stamp for super singles today, so I'm gonna share the team I used for it. Criticize, recommend changes. etc as you please, I'll listen as I plan on continuing later on.

Tapu Koko @ Electrium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Wild Charge
- Hidden Power Ice
- Taunt
- U-turn

Koko's role is to nuke the absolute shit out of whatever's first if possible to get that 3v2 ASAP. Gigavolt absolutely breaks everything aside from ridiculously tanky shit like Avalugg or Umbreon, and even Gigavolt + Charge still takes out most things aside from really bulky resists like Ferrothorn or Tangrowth. HP Ice is there to soften up any dragons or grounds for revenge killing via Mamoswine. Taunt is actually very helpful against bulky mons that Koko doesn't need to fight, stuff like Mandibuzz, Dusknoir, and Blissey become flat out useless and are forced to struggle, giving the others a free switch in if necessary. Taunt is also very helpful to stop setup sweepers like Salamence, as if Z-move is down it can get really ugly really fast. U-turn is there for ground-types mostly, although it does a huge chunk to anything that takes super-effective damage from it.

Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast
- Roost

This guy cleans up anything that Koko would take a lot of damage to beat. Sun-boosted flamethrowers are nothing to laugh at, a large portion of Pokemon in the tree are 1HKO or 2HKO'd by it. Solar Beam and Focus Blast are standard coverage, and does just fine against a lot of the things looking to ruin zard's reign. Roost isn't doing the most as I don't use it often, but keeping myself topped off is important as a lot of heavy hitters will take out zard if it's at 50-60%

Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off

Here's the dragon killer, and electric immunity for zard. Many dragons can't stomach Ice Shard or Icicle Crash (bar a miss for crash). EQ is just a great move to have, and thanks to thick fat it can take on quite a few fire mons like Incineroar, Pyroar, and zard X (if healthy) or coverage from the likes of Manectric or Eelektross. Knock off is helpful for smacking annoying ghosts like Jellicent, Cofagrigus, and Mismagius, or even just getting rid of annoying items that need to go like Brightpowder or berries.

As for threats, Greninja is a big one if Koko isn't healthy enough to take a Water Shuriken, as it just destroys mamo and zard with it's coverage. Really fast attackers with a lot of coverage are a real pain to deal with as well, like mega Zam or zard X, but they can be handled if zard and mamo are healthy. Rhyperior has also made way for actually being a real pain in the ass as most of the time something has to be sacked so zard can get in safetly. There's probably a few more problematic ones out there (not looking forward to dealing with Latis), but this can resolved with some team changes hopefully.

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

Got my stamp for super singles today, so I'm gonna share the team I used for it. Criticize, recommend changes. etc as you please, I'll listen as I plan on continuing later on.

Tapu Koko @ Electrium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Wild Charge
- Hidden Power Ice
- Taunt
- U-turn

Koko's role is to nuke the absolute shit out of whatever's first if possible to get that 3v2 ASAP. Gigavolt absolutely breaks everything aside from ridiculously tanky shit like Avalugg or Umbreon, and even Gigavolt + Charge still takes out most things aside from really bulky resists like Ferrothorn or Tangrowth. HP Ice is there to soften up any dragons or grounds for revenge killing via Mamoswine. Taunt is actually very helpful against bulky mons that Koko doesn't need to fight, stuff like Mandibuzz, Dusknoir, and Blissey become flat out useless and are forced to struggle, giving the others a free switch in if necessary. Taunt is also very helpful to stop setup sweepers like Salamence, as if Z-move is down it can get really ugly really fast. U-turn is there for ground-types mostly, although it does a huge chunk to anything that takes super-effective damage from it.

Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast
- Roost

This guy cleans up anything that Koko would take a lot of damage to beat. Sun-boosted flamethrowers are nothing to laugh at, a large portion of Pokemon in the tree are 1HKO or 2HKO'd by it. Solar Beam and Focus Blast are standard coverage, and does just fine against a lot of the things looking to ruin zard's reign. Roost isn't doing the most as I don't use it often, but keeping myself topped off is important as a lot of heavy hitters will take out zard if it's at 50-60%

Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off

Here's the dragon killer, and electric immunity for zard. Many dragons can't stomach Ice Shard or Icicle Crash (bar a miss for crash). EQ is just a great move to have, and thanks to thick fat it can take on quite a few fire mons like Incineroar, Pyroar, and zard X (if healthy) or coverage from the likes of Manectric or Eelektross. Knock off is helpful for smacking annoying ghosts like Jellicent, Cofagrigus, and Mismagius, or even just getting rid of annoying items that need to go like Brightpowder or berries.

As for threats, Greninja is a big one if Koko isn't healthy enough to take a Water Shuriken, as it just destroys mamo and zard with it's coverage. Really fast attackers with a lot of coverage are a real pain to deal with as well, like mega Zam or zard X, but they can be handled if zard and mamo are healthy. Rhyperior has also made way for actually being a real pain in the ass as most of the time something has to be sacked so zard can get in safetly. There's probably a few more problematic ones out there (not looking forward to dealing with Latis), but this can resolved with some team changes hopefully.

While Taunt is a great move, you may be interested to know that Salamence past 40 will not be setting up against you. Mence3 runs Protect/Hydro Pump/Fire Blast/Meteors and Mence4 holds Salamencite, with D-Edge/Dragon Rush/Earthquake/Crunch.

For that matter, there aren’t any dragons off the top of my head which Koko really benefits from taunting- Altaria4 can’t use its worst move due to Electric Terrain. Most draggins will be apt to attacking straightaway.

 

[Lord_gothmog]

I was having success with:


Minior@White Herb
Ability: Shields Down
Adamant Nature
252 Atk, 252 HP, 4 Spe
-Shell Smash
-Power Gem
-Acrobatics
-Explosion

Gyarados@Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
Jolly Nature
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Def
-Dragon Dance
-Crunch
-Substitute
-Waterfall


Aegislash@Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
Adamant Nature
252 atk, 252 HP, 4 SpD
-Swords Dance
-Iron Head
-Shadow Sneak
-Kings Shield


Everything was going well, Minior was the MVP, he soloed most teams, until I hit a full electric team at...
Wait for it...
Battle number 49 (cri cri)
Now I need a ground type since Im weak to electricity. It seems like Garchomp is the best, should I switch Slashy-boi for Garchomp or Gyara for Mega Chomp? Or should I get a different electric counter altogether?

 

[Brucolac]

I would recommend Scarf-Chomp as revenger over Mega-Chomp. Maybe keep Aegislash because it performs better against Ice. Wide Guard and/or a Z Crystal might be an option. Its a bit hard to cover a BoltBeam weakness, but these backup Mons may be able to deal with that. Cool that you try out Minior, hopefully you can push him even further!

 

[Worldie]

Wide Guard is unlikely to really provide anything for singles though.

I would however run Sacred Sword over Iron head: ghost+fighting is perfect coverage, SS ignores defensive boost allowing you to boost against Curse users, and honestly Steel isn't exactly the best offensive type anyway.

 

[PikaAbuser]

Alternatively, you can run Mega Venusaur for being a good complement weakness wise for your other two guys, or Mega Manectric to make anyone who tries to zap your Minior pay dearly.

 

[TimG57867]

After months of procrastination and real life issues, I have finally gotten to the point where I can take on the Battle Tree in USUM. I intend to tackle singles with the same team as before. I however I intend to make 2 Major changes to Smeargle:

1. Smeargle will run Protect this time. As cool as Spiky Shield is, I ran into to man instances where the chip damage hurt than it helped. It often made it harder to set up physical attackers as the chip damage could kill them too soon. I also don't want chip damage to lure Sap Sipper mons. (Looking at you Drampa....)

2. This time my boosting move will be Shell Smash. As amazing as Coil was, one issue I had was how it was completely up to RNG to give me speed. And if I got speed reductions, I was all the more supsceptible to hax. So this time I want to see how it goes when I boost my Speed proactively. While it does mean my defenses and accuracy will take longer to build, I will end up maxing 3 stats in half the time. My speed will also always be higher than the opponents which can help stall for extra time as needed. The -8 on PP does suck but 24 is still a respectable amount of PP for stalling.

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

1. I also don't want chip damage to lure Sap Sipper mons. (Looking at you Drampa....)

Has that actually happened before? Spiky Shield blocked an attack and, because the move is grass type and it inflicted a little damage, the AI brought in a poke with Sap Sipper? That's very interesting.

 

[Worldie]

Also have you considered using Quiver Dance instead? it's three +1s with no downsides and still gets 32 PPs.
Dragon Dance would also be a option for two +1s with also 32 PPs.

 

[TimG57867]

Has that actually happened before? Spiky Shield blocked an attack and, because the move is grass type and it inflicted a little damage, the AI brought in a poke with Sap Sipper? That's very interesting.

Yep. Sina’s Abomasnow attacked into the Spiky Shield once after I Traunted it. Then right as I try to set up Smeargle she switched right out to Drampa. It was the only explanation me and GG Unit could think of. What’s even weirder is that Abamosnow didn’t even use a contact move.

Also have you considered using Quiver Dance instead? it's three +1s with no downsides and still gets 32 PPs.
Dragon Dance would also be a option for two +1s with also 32 PPs.

Those are also options to consider. QD doesn’t boost Attack though so I could still be left waiting for a while. I want to boost and attack and speed so I can be more proactive or stall better when hax kicks. As long as Smeargle is faster, he can usually alternate Substitute and Protect.

 

[waffles101]

Reporting in with a 139 Streak in Super Doubles (Sun)

QR Code

Proof

After having some fun with Lele/Hawlucha I was beginning to understand the power of terrain teams. I had also noticed a number of teams using the Koko/A-Raichu combination on the leaderboard, as well as Hitmonlee + Koko and decided to throw a team together than combined the two into a best of both worlds scenario. The last mon was just the product of needing a ground resist, a mega, and appreciating intimidate so I ended up with Mega-Salamence.

The team:

Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
Ability: Electric Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch
This is a pretty standard Koko set and the general rule of thumb is pick the move that is going to do damage, and do damage with it. The ideal scenario with this was always to nab an OHKO with Volt Switch and let Hitmonlee come in for free, allowing a second Fake Out to come in early and also allowing Koko to reset Specs and have the freedom to use whatever was coming in next. Realistically, I mostly used Thunderbolt and Dazzling Gleam, as there are a lot of KOs that Volt Switch won't nab 100%. HP Ice was something of an afterthough and not used very often, as being locked into 60BP non-STAB move really sucks so it was very much a worst case scenario move. Even in the case of grass types, I would generally just VS into mence, as they would never spore this particular slot. The move only really came in handy against Landorus leads where I would Fake Out + HP Ice to avoid the possible disaster that was Landorus (Incarnate Forme)-2.

Raichu-Alola @ Aloraichium Z
Ability: Surge Surfer
Level: 50
EVs: 140 HP / 108 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fake Out
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Grass Knot
The second half of the Electric opening duo. The speed on this thing, even uninvested, is blistering. This was most notable when you would see opponents go for two dragon dances (or double Autonomize in the case of Golem-12) which is very helpful in avoiding getting smacked. The usual play with this lead combo was to Fake Out while Tapu Koko gets a KO, and then use Stoked Sparksurfer to get a KO on turn two while Koko went for chip damage. The power behind the Z-move means basically any sweeper will be KO'ed, bar focus sash/sturdy which should be popped by Fake Out. It was particularly useful to double-target potential TR setters and this is the reason that I think running focus sash Raichu + Specs Koko would fail as a lead duo. It was often tempting to go for 2 KOs on turn one, but it was generally the better play to take them down one at a time and manage the possible double bad-matchup. Psychic had its uses, such as OHKOing Nidoking, as well as bringing Dragon or Grass types into KO range for Dazzling Gleam. Finally, Grass Knot was somewhat underwhelming (especially against some of my tougher matchups in Gastrodon, Tyranitar, Gigalith, Palossand) but was still worth having on the team. To put it into perspective, the list of Pokemon guaranteed to be KO'ed by Grass Knot, but not Thunderbolt is limited to: Golem-12, AGolem-2, Rhyperior-1234 (after Sturdy).
The EV spread is simply Max SpA, 4 Spe to avoid the tie with Hitmonlee and the rest used to maximise general bulk. It is a little disappointing on the physical side (it will often die to EQ where Koko survives) but shoring that up would require sacrificing power. The special bulk is already very adequate as it generally won't die to the omnipresent non-STAB Shadow Balls in the tree.

Hitmonlee @ Electric Seed
Ability: Limber
Level: 50
EVs: 68 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpA / 180 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Protect
This guy is both the inspiration for its team and also one of the biggest let-downs. The truth is that 50/53/110 defences aren't really going to cut it, even after Electric Seed, if you want to Volt-Switch'ed into. Any time there was a risk of a Dazzling Gleam or Psychic being levied at Koko I lost any option to Volt Switch here. Close Combat with no damage item also didn't have the oomph required to get neutral KOs and -1/-1 Lee was very vulnerable. Knock-off provided a reasonable amount of utility (fuck Blissey-4) and did ease matchups into Psychics but ultimately wasn't used all that often. Where I found this guy to really be a dead-weight was into TR which is one of the biggest threats to this team, but he also drops easily to all the Psychic and Fairy type setters.
EV spread is to outspeed and OHKO Manectric-4 which is a large threat to this team due to Lightningrod + electric typing. He fulfilled a similarly important function against Togedemaru sets.

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Protect
Mence was thrown in to round out the team with intidimate, a Mega-evolution and a ground immunity. This set was just a general dissapointment. Hyper Voice was almost always the move of choice, as Salamence was either coming in off a Volt Switch (where I could finish the enemy off with a spread move) or to deal with Grass types. Every other move on here is honestly filler. Flamethrower was nice for Togedemaru and Scizor but that was basically the only use case. Dragon pulse was an option against other dragon types but rarely picks up the KO and thus was only used to clean up battle at the end. Protect was nice for stalling TR turns or blocking the obvious Ice moves, but it was not all that useful due to the AI obsession with Blizzard and the fact that noone on my team wants to eat Blizzard's while Salamence protects.

I won't go into too much detail on threats or how I lost (all you need to know is I forgot that Abomasnow gets Soundproof, and fuck crits) other than to say I don't think this team has too much longevity due to the TR matchup. There is no real way that this team can deal with a double-setter lead where neither setter is a water type. I somehow managed to only face this issue about three times in my run, and managed to stall out TR with a combination of Fake Out and Protect but they were very dicey games and a more disadvantageous backline would be run ending.

My next plan for this team is to drop Salamence for Lando-T with a Z-crystal and do some shuffling on the front line (change Raichu's item, move Grass Knot onto Koko in place of HP Ice, add protect to Raichu) and hopefully see a slightly stronger performance where I'm not so weak to electric types and can have some easier switch ins.

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

It's too early for repeats of 999 and it wasn't even Ezra

Iron Ball Gardevoir - Today at 9:32 PM
heatran/registeel leads, from a backpacker so both reggies are bad sets
gonna liquid ASAP since heatran isnt doing much
FUCK
EXCEPT SUNNY DAY

Smuckem (The Silver Karp) - Today at 9:32 PM
Yeah, I was gonna mention that

paperquagsire (Tapu Gengar) - Today at 9:32 PM
oof

Iron Ball Gardevoir - Today at 9:32 PM
gooooooodddd damnnnniiiiiiittttt

paperquagsire (Tapu Gengar) - Today at 9:32 PM
at least you can't get fucked by flame body!

Iron Ball Gardevoir - Today at 9:33 PM
bringing in mawile asap
er drampa
i meant drampa
registeel used DT

Smuckem (The Silver Karp) - Today at 9:33 PM
Please tell me you didn't actually bring in Mawile

Iron Ball Gardevoir - Today at 9:33 PM
no
i typod

Aizawa Shōta - Today at 9:33 PM
paperquagsire (Tapu Gengar) did somebody say something about fucking?

Iron Ball Gardevoir - Today at 9:34 PM
heatran crit fire blasts araquanid

Smuckem (The Silver Karp) - Today at 9:34 PM
Maybe pause after this battle for the night, you running into some close calls in this last stretch

Iron Ball Gardevoir - Today at 9:34 PM
withdraws heatran to latias
at least i get to LL for some HP
mega latias

Aizawa Shōta - Today at 9:35 PM
Stop while you're ahead

Iron Ball Gardevoir - Today at 9:35 PM
twave to drampa

paperquagsire (Tapu Gengar) - Today at 9:35 PM
15 FPs

Iron Ball Gardevoir - Today at 9:35 PM
registeel withdraws to heatran
dead latias
TR off

Smuckem (The Silver Karp) - Today at 9:35 PM
paperquagsire (Tapu Gengar) DO NOT JOKE RIGHT NOW

Iron Ball Gardevoir - Today at 9:35 PM
landorus enters
DD lando while i have the chance

extendedfreezer [wacky gravity] - Today at 9:36 PM
genie of healthy meta

paperquagsire (Tapu Gengar) - Today at 9:36 PM
lands 3 fissures

Iron Ball Gardevoir - Today at 9:36 PM
rock slide but drampa is DD
landorus dead
sunlight is back
please activate berserk
please activate berserk and let me OHKO with sun boosted fthrower
reggie protect and fire blast KO araquanid
full HP guru
solarbeam guru

Smuckem (The Silver Karp) - Today at 9:38 PM
Idiot

Iron Ball Gardevoir - Today at 9:38 PM
TR up
fthrower did not kill jesus
registeel dead

Smuckem (The Silver Karp) - Today at 9:38 PM
Still tight

Iron Ball Gardevoir - Today at 9:38 PM
instruct activates flash fire
drampa FP, i predicted this and used psychic

Iron Ball Gardevoir - Today at 9:39 PM
mawile evolving
drampa paralyzed again but crunch kills
victory

Smuckem (The Silver Karp) - Today at 9:39 PM
JESUS FUCK

Iron Ball Gardevoir - Today at 9:40 PM
yeah that was extremely fucking unpleasant

Smuckem (The Silver Karp) - Today at 9:40 PM
Enough for tonight, you giving (edited) fits here

Iron Ball Gardevoir - Today at 9:40 PM
replay saved

252+ SpA Drampa Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Registeel in Sun: 124-146 (66.3 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Registeel in Sun: 47-57 (25.1 - 30.4%) -- 3.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Cursed calcs. But even then, at least it wasn't Registeel3. Fuck that thing.

Saved that discord log for posterity, as that basically sums up the tension I felt during 999 (which coincidentally also featured Heatran3 being an antagonist at a critical moment.) Smucks and Paper were also survivors in spirit lol. ...might not be the easiest to follow seeing as I didn't indicate turns as play-by-play so much as things that had some degree of relevance :P

 

[PikaAbuser]

Hey! I had some streak going in Super Doubles with another fun theme team which turned out to be slightly competitive! I got a streak of 103!



Since I am terribly unoriginal, I just let the game story decide my team for me. And it's one big happy family!

Battle Tree Super Doubles, Ultra Moon, Streak 103

Meet the Tapus, Guardians of Sunny Alola:

Team Development:
I searched my box for everything that started with "Tapu", and picked the 4 different ones that showed up. I had to use some berries and facilities to make sure Fini's speed is just a few points higher than Bulu because I didn't care too much about Misty Terrain, that's about it. Ok, I knew Bulu and Fini had to be the lead so I can get one offensive terrain up without another one getting canceled out. Their lack of synergy may suggests that this family is dysfunctional, but here they learned to work together for some wins.


The Tapu Family, Guardians of Alola:

Tapu Bulu @ Life Orb
Grassy Surge
Adamant Nature
4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Horn Leech
- Megahorn
- Superpower
- Protect
The breadwinner of the family. Bulu keeps waifu Fini healthy and messes up my opponent's supermart before dying and making way for the kids. Horn Leech lets me keep Bulu around as long as possible. Megahorn to mess up opposing Grass guys, and Superpower so it doesn't get walled by Steel.

Tapu Fini @ Wide Lens
Misty Surge
Bold Nature
66 Hp / 252 SpA / 190 Spe
- Muddy Water
- Ice Beam
- Nature's Madness
- Protect
Fini wants to do her Misty Terrain, but the EV spread means Bulu always takes the remote and says, "Nope, let's watch Grassy instead." Still, Fini acts as the secret wallbreaker of the family. A Nature's Madness followed by whatever from the other Tapus will do almost always ensures a KO. Muddy Water lets me lucksack into some wins. Wide Lens is used to maximize the accuracy of Muddy Water and Nature's Madness

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Psychic Surge
Modest Nature
4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Psychic
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Thunderbolt
The youngest of the family, the loli is usually the last one to the field. Scarfed, she is good at killing what the rest of the family failed to kill. Bringing her in last means I will be most informed in what move to lock her into. In the sad event that tapu papa and mama pass away at the same time, and she and Koko hit the field together, Electric Terrain is what the field will end up, so giving her Thunderbolt makes sense. Psyshock is here for bastard Blissey and Calm Mind users.

Tapu Koko @ Electrium Z
Electric Surge
Timid Nature (as evident by the shiny)
4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Grass Knot
- Protect
This guy needs no introduction. He is the inheritor of his parents' will, Koko is usually the first one in when a family member falls. He's that edgy teenager who uses Gigavolt Havoc to immediately kill stuff.


Strategy:
Beat face with grass, then electrocute with electric, then rip it apart with psychic. That's what this family does. And spam Protect like crazy.


Threats:
Fufufufufufu Poison! Everyone is weak to poison! Especially those fast ones like Crobat and Salazzle, which just means one of my leads will RIP fast. The team I eventually lost to was, you guess it, a Poison team. Steel also sucks, especially a Meta Metagross, so Gigavolt Havoc to its ugly face is a priority. Other than that, the team doesn't really have many options to take down Steel type fast. I even had to sack against Colress a few times.


Replays:
Here are the replays.

Battle 50: Legend Battle vs Blue

vs

V6KW-WWWW-WWWM-DMJ2
Blue didn't stand much of a chance here. Both of his leads get easily OTKOed by my leads. The only danger here would be if Megahorn misses Exeggutor. It hit and I smelled him later.


Battle 69 vs Priya (wait that doesn't sound right)

vs

RVQG-WWWW-WWWM-DMKF
Priya uses all legendaries and tried to status shenanigan me. Bulu made short-work of her Raikou and Latios. Regigigas is almost never much of a threat in doubles.

Battle 72 vs Aino

vs

X85G-WWWW-WWWM-DMMN
This seemed like an uphill battle at first, but I predicted her attacks with Protect. And Meta Metagross got Gigavolt Havoc to its face as promised.


Battle 90 vs Grimsley and onto leaderboard!

vs

BKGW-WWWW-WWWM-DMNB
Against a Dark type user, and all my guys are Fairy, seems like an easy match, right? Of course he led with the two guys that are strongest against me. I knew Drapion was going for Bulu, so I Protect and let Fini turn off Bisharp's Focus Sash. Then I realize my guys outspeeds his guys, and he was history.

Battle 104: Losing to a janitor

vs

VQ2G-WWWW-WWWM-DMNL
You can just see my opponent's lineup and tell that I was going to lose. He led with two fast Poison guys, and I was at his mercy. Then my Scarf-Lele got hit by Gengar's Cursed Body....and no amount of Struggle can save this family from being poisoned to death. May you forever be cursed for defying the will of Alola, damn janitor of Punahou School!



There you have it, the Tapu Family is dead! ALL DEAD! Alola is doomed and it's all a janitor's fault!

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

Regigigas is almost never much of a threat in doubles.

For your specific team, with things like Misty Terrain to block status or a terrain-boosted Z-move, Regigigas has a number of pretty hard checks. But as a blanket statement, it’s a load of Bulu. Regigigas has four incredibly annoying movesets and leaving it alone is rarely a good idea. If its partner doesn’t risk OHKOing your active party, you’re better off doubling into it and killing it then and there, unless you have the luxury of a OHKO already.

 

[GG Unit]

Yep. Sina’s Abomasnow attacked into the Spiky Shield once after I Traunted it. Then right as I try to set up Smeargle she switched right out to Drampa. It was the only explanation me and GG Unit could think of. What’s even weirder is that Abamosnow didn’t even use a contact move.



Those are also options to consider. QD doesn’t boost Attack though so I could still be left waiting for a while. I want to boost and attack and speed so I can be more proactive or stall better when hax kicks. As long as Smeargle is faster, he can usually alternate Substitute and Protect.

If you're boosting stats on a loafing turn, Power Trip is going to get to obscenely high base power early on regardless of the particular stat boosting move. You’re always going to be waiting for Moody to boost a stat you can’t raise yourself, whether it be attack, speed, or accuracy. The most common time-saving benefit of something like Coil over Shell Smash is that if you're waiting for a speed boost, you can get more stats to +6 and increase the odds of getting it; every use of Shell Smash gives Moody the option of raising defense or special defense when it's an accuracy boost you need.

For that reason I'd rather use Shift Gear than Shell Smash if I felt boosting speed would be that important (I don't because with Spiky Shield Smeargle can KO faster physical attackers without losing its sub, and if you do that against Pokemon #2 you can just OHKO #3 as it breaks the Sub). Also, once Smeargle is at +1 or +2 Speed that's 'good enough' whereas against leads that boost evasion you'll need to wait for Moody to naturally raise accuracy higher than that if you don't want to waste all of Power Trip's PP by repeatedly missing.

Drampa is a pretty low-level issue given that Mimikyu comes in for free on Hyper Voice and can beat it 1-on-1 by spamming Confide until it's out of Fire Blast. In fact, it’d probably be a bigger worry with Shell Smash since with unboosted special defense, Smeargle wouldn't need to take a crit to be KOed if it absolutely had to stay in against QC Drampa. If Durant is KOed and you fear Drampa might come in, there’s no rule that says you have to use Spiky Shield right from the start and stay at 75% or higher HP while setting up.

 

[PikaAbuser]

It just feels to me like one of those early Tree opponents that tries to annoy so its partner can have an easier time killing me. It doesn't really pressure me except praying that the RNG God is on its side today. Its sets just seem like they are meant to stall out in singles and didn't carry over too well in doubles. At least for me, just leaving it and making sure it has no partner to do real damage to me had giving me some pretty easy battles. Then again, my team was all-out offensive and could pretty much guarantee KO one guy per turn right off the bat if the opponent doesn't have anything that outspeeds and threatens OTK. I can see how it can disrupt more combo/setup based teams.

 

[TimG57867]

If you're boosting stats on a loafing turn, Power Trip is going to get to obscenely high base power early on regardless of the particular stat boosting move. You’re always going to be waiting for Moody to boost a stat you can’t raise yourself, whether it be attack, speed, or accuracy. The most common time-saving benefit of something like Coil over Shell Smash is that if you're waiting for a speed boost, you can get more stats to +6 and increase the odds of getting it; every use of Shell Smash gives Moody the option of raising defense or special defense when it's an accuracy boost you need.

For that reason I'd rather use Shift Gear than Shell Smash if I felt boosting speed would be that important (I don't because with Spiky Shield Smeargle can KO faster physical attackers without losing its sub, and if you do that against Pokemon #2 you can just OHKO #3 as it breaks the Sub). Also, once Smeargle is at +1 or +2 Speed that's 'good enough' whereas against leads that boost evasion you'll need to wait for Moody to naturally raise accuracy higher than that if you don't want to waste all of Power Trip's PP by repeatedly missing.

Drampa is a pretty low-level issue given that Mimikyu comes in for free on Hyper Voice and can beat it 1-on-1 by spamming Confide until it's out of Fire Blast. In fact, it’d probably be a bigger worry with Shell Smash since with unboosted special defense, Smeargle wouldn't need to take a crit to be KOed if it absolutely had to stay in against QC Drampa. If Durant is KOed and you fear Drampa might come in, there’s no rule that says you have to use Spiky Shield right from the start and stay at 75% or higher HP while setting up.

Very insightful post as always. Reading that, I think I might stick with Coil. I REALLY want to boost my speed actively but all the speed boosting options have serious drawbacks:

- Shift Gear has only 16 PP which severely limits stall time and can sting when Moody drops Attack too much.

- Shell Smash boosts 3 stats super quick but it cuts Defense which can lead to Moody wasting boosts on my Defenses instead of Evasion and Accuracy. It also leaves me more open if the sub breaks.

- Quiver Dance boosts 3 stats at once, but 1 of those stats is completely worthless and without Attack boosts Smeargle's power is greatly limited.

- Dragon Dance doesn't drop stats and boosts the 2 most crucial ones with lots of PP. But by only affecting 2 stats, 1 stage at a time, Moody has plenty of room to squander boosts.


Until we get a 3 stat boosting move that includes Attack and Speed, excludes Sp. Att, and has no drawbacks, Coil will remain the clear winner.

I still want to give Protect a try though. That Drampa put the fear of god in me (however trivial it may be) and I do want to see how things go when contact move users don't die from the shield chip.

(And quick PSA for USUM players wanting to try the Moody setup since I didn't see it pointed out. I doubled checked the Tree changes and have actually found a relevant threat. Apparently Togedumaru 3 exchanged its Air Balloon for a Red Card. Since it has Sturdy, it could force Smeargle out. Thankfully it's not TOO big of a problem since it's Adamant with no speed investment which means all 3 members will outspeed it. Plus it has to have Sturdy and be the 2nd mon to cause any havoc because if it's first you remove Sturdy with Traunt and if it's 3rd, another, all 3 members can outspeed and finish it off anyway. Still kinda annoying for the Moody setup though).

BTW, are you still climbing with your Glalie team GG? If so where is it right now?

 

[Coeur7]

EXCISED

 

[TimG57867]

Togedemaru3 will get its Sturdy broken by Spiky Shield, as all of its moves make contact

Oh yeah. If that pest comes out after bopping the lead, a Spiky Shield can chip out off full health. Score 1 for Smeargle.

And you know what? I think for research purposes, I am gonna try a Protect Smeargle run in my Sun version and use Spiky Shield again in Ultra Sun and compare their performance.

 

[PikaAbuser]

Togedemaru3 will get its Sturdy broken by Spiky Shield, as all of its moves make contact.


These beasts (Cresselia2, Dusknoir3, Zapdos2, Registeel4...) only need to "get lucky" with you once to end your run. If your streak goal is 100, which is reasonable when you're consciously building teams around mons you just want to use, rather than trying to "solve the Tree", then you may rightly feel that the threat is not as consistent as that of high-damage opponents living exactly one hit, and "often enough" (over a 100-streak) they do end up doing little; but then the same can be said for nearly all OHKO move users, none of which are a laughing matter to you, I should assume, although of course Misty Terrain does not protect you from those (and Misty only does it while you can still switch, for that matter -- I've recently lost a streak at 125 due to a 7% Blizzard freeze from Suicune4 on the one turn that I did no longer have terrain and needed to move for the victory; and in fact, I did have the option to reset terrain by switching in a sacrifice, but found it difficult to assess whether that was the safer play).

Entering the Tree with a team whose win rate against the totality of possible opposing teams is 99% (not that this will be easy to verify, particularly for Doubles) means you'll land a 100-streak 36.6% of the time, and a 200-streak 13.4% of the time (notably, it's more than half as unlikely), and a 500-streak 0.6% of the time. If the team's win rate is 99.9% instead, these chances become 90.4%, 81.8%, and 60.6% respectively. The difference between 99% and 99.9% may well be that one's best answer to evasion stall will have been spent in a minority of encounters with them, seeing as it will fulfill multiple roles on one's team.

On a side note, if your win rate is 98%, the 100-streak is already only as likely as the 200-streak at 99%. That is also to say, even if the Tree only occasionally rewards player skill, it will eventually.

You've been missing out if you've never had a choice-locked Steel-typed lastmon die to Struggle recoil against any of the Toxic DT stallers (and Noir carries WoW, Gigas Confuse Ray), or enjoyed losing the PP war against Zapdos2 drawing Pressure. And this certainly happens in Doubles as well, and my current team is nothing but high-damage threats that usually need to win within the four turns that they are given.

Yes, I get what you are saying in how they can end a streak. But when something like Regigigas is paired with a Pokemon that can straight up OTK my guys, the choice between going after the guy who might kill me versus the guy who will definitely kill me is pretty easy to make.

 

[Daitadulateur]

Hi everyone, I sometimes scan this forum and I'm currently trying to get a streak of 200 with the following team :

Volcarona @ Focus Sash
Ability : Swarm
EVs : 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Giga Drain

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability : Intimidate → Aerilate
EVs : 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Earthquake
- Return

Aegislash @ Steelium Z
Ability : Stance Change
EVs : 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- King's Shield
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance


My record is a streak of 77 (I lost because of two critical hits) for now but I know I'm going to improve. I began the streak of 200 challenge yesterday, I'm making my debut with this team.
Do you think I'm going to quickly achieve my objective ?

 

[MQJinx]

So I've managed to get 205 wins using a psyspam team.

Video: 3XWG-WWWW-WWWM-NGQX

Team:

Zapdos @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Roost
- Tailwind

Zapdos is one half of my lead pair, aiming to get up Tailwind quickly if it benefits or just attacking against Trick Room. Thunderbolt is the main attack, Heat Wave for coverage, Tailwind for speed control, and Roost if it is safe to let it live longer. Psychic Seed is used for the extra special bulk to make it easier to set up Tailwind.

Tapu Lele @ Psychium Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect

Tapu Lele is the other half of the lead pair. Psychic and Moonblast are the spammable STABs while Dazzling Gleam is used for spread damage. Psychium Z is used for the one-time nuke of getting rid of any problematic Pokemon (usually Thunder Wave users).

Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Punch
- Protect

Metagross comes in after either one of my leads is KO'd. It then proceeds the wreck havoc on the foe along with its teammates with its powerful Tough Claws-boosted attacks. Ice Punch is used to allow me to hit dragons and grounds without relying on Zen Headbutt.

Incineroar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Knock Off
- Flare Blitz
- Low Kick

Incineroar is my intimidator, psychic check, Weavile check, and steel check. Assault Vest is used for that extra bulk. Fake Out is a wonderful move to have in some situations while Low Kick mainly hits Tyranitar and Heatran.

 

[Coeur7]

EXCISED

 

[Worldie]

(plus it's always worth mentioning that pre 50 tree is significantly easier than post 50, due to the absence of set 34 before battle 40 and most strong legendary based trainers also absent pre 50)