QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
Ah fab, thanks. Seems like that would be a lot easier since DP's sets are inferior and have randomised natures.
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Challenge 4th Generation Battle Facilities Discussion and Records
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QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
After literal years of thinking about it, finally gotten around to having a go with Multi in Gen IV on SoulSilver. My writeup got long so this is part record, part guide.
So yeah! Going to try some more multi modes since there doesn't seem to be much interest in them. Factory and Castle have the most appeal.
Having always liked the multi-with-NPC mode in Gen III and eventually reaching a dizzying height of 300 straight wins there, I've always been interested in trying out Gen IV's version. My general preference for Gen III and V's respective battle facilities always held me back; beyond doing a token run at all the Frontier facilities back in the day to get the coloured prints, and my Adventures challenge last year, I've never really invested much time into the Gen IV Frontier. But that changes now!
Multi can be a challenging format, but it's my favourite of the three main battle modes. Playing with a partner is challenging enough, but the challenge of playing around the limitations and occasional blind incompetence of an AI partner has always appealed, and is why I keep coming back to this format time and time again.
Multi can be a challenging format, but it's my favourite of the three main battle modes. Playing with a partner is challenging enough, but the challenge of playing around the limitations and occasional blind incompetence of an AI partner has always appealed, and is why I keep coming back to this format time and time again.
More than any other, this is a format where only certain kinds of Pokemon are likely to succeed. The uncertainty of what you'll get for a partner makes designing a team that much harder when you're limited to just two Pokemon; unavoidably, at some point you WILL get a partner with a crap team. Even if you don't, you will experience numerous battles in which your two Pokemon will need to do the work of four. That means you need a reliable duo who can absolutely tear through teams, ideally one-shotting the foe's leads before they can respond - or at the very least leaving opponents weakened enough for your partner to mop them up.
In the Gen III Frontier my star team was Choice Band Tauros leading with Lum Berry Latios in the back. While there's every possibility that could have also worked here, I've found that Latios is slightly more frail in this era than I'd like - too much can hit it for super-effective damage thanks to the proliferation of powerful Bug, Dark, and Dragon moves and the physical/special split. It's still an effective sweeper, but it doesn't hit quite hard enough to justify its usage unless you go all-out on offenses and run a Life Orb or Choice Specs, which I was reluctant to do. So I decided to explore some other options, which I'll expound on below.
Staraptor
@ Choice Scarf (Intimidate)
Brave Bird
Giga Impact
Close Combat
U-Turn
4 HP, 252 Attack, 76 Def, 4 Sp.Def, 172 Speed (Adamant)
Staraptor did me well in Gen V's Subway recently so I decided to give it a shot here. As a lead it's superb, and routinely gets a clean kill on turn one.
Brave Bird and Close Combat are your bread and butter; Brave Bird kills so much stuff, even when it hits for neutral damage. Staraptor has to go first because Choice Scarf, obviously; I find that U-Turn sees less use than it did in the Subway, but it can be an effective way to take out something like Alakazam or Shiftry for "free", or occasionally deal some chip damage and escape an unfavourable matchup. Giga Impact is basically there as last resort. Obviously undesirable to use for more reasons than one but it can be an absolute boon to take out something you otherwise couldn't or guarantee that your partner's move which may have only 2HKOed will finish the job.
EVs were tweaked for less Speed relative to the Subway as the Frontier is much slower by comparison: the only things faster than 211 are Linoone2 (irrelevant) and Porygon-Z2 (not threatening enough to make an exception for). The rest is dumped into bulk to try and capitalise on Intimidate as much as possible.
Staraptor might not look top-tier, but played effectively it's an excellent lead and can absolutely lay waste to opponent teams if given the opportunity. Don't underestimate it.
Machamp
@ Choice Scarf (No Guard)
Dynamicpunch
Stone Edge
Earthquake
Ice Punch
12 HP, 252 Attack, 244 Speed (Adamant)
The notion of a Choice Scarf lead had a lot of appeal, and one other Pokemon came to mind as an effective turn-one killer: Machamp.
No Guard is a devastating ability, and it turns Machamp into an absolute monster. I used it in singles and it was great. But it's too slow to be dominating - unless you give it a Choice Scarf. The stat spread is simple enough. With max speed, Adamant Scarfed Machamp reaches 160 Speed which, while not quite as fast as you'd like, outruns a wide swathe of foes and ties with Infernape alone. Frankly, Infernape isn't worth the bother - it can't KO you; nor can you in return, but Dynamicpunch does ~95% and gives you a chance of confusion damage next turn. So you can afford to drop a few points. A Speed stat of 105 reaches 157 after Scarf, which ties with a few things that aren't especially threatening - oh, but hang on, Rapidash3 (which has Horn Drill) is at 157 as well, so you do need to get to 106.
That's about it. There's no point going Jolly because the Speed increase is negligible (you don't even outrun Adamant Weavile) and also because Machamp reaches such a sexy Attack benchmark. You still miss KOs against some exceptionally bulky stuff - Cradily, Rhyperior, Registeel - but guaranteed confusion is superb and makes the 2HKOs more achievable. Only Rhyperior3 is a 3HKO, and even then only when it has Solid Rock.
Paired with something faster, Machamp often does astonishingly well. And Machamp pairs well with speedier special attackers because it's particularly good at taking out the stuff they generally can't - Walrein3, for instance. Dynamicpunch does not OHKO but it leaves it with a shred of health, confused, which greatly lessens the likelihood of it being able to respond. The only drawback here is that No Guard obviously guarantees that Walrein can hit you with Fissure/Sheer Cold, so the only thing to do is to attack with both Pokemon. Just pile on for the KO.
The downsides to Machamp, though, are many and varied. First is that it just isn't fast enough, and is outsped by a lot of speedier Pokemon even when they're not Timid/Jolly. Relying on a faster partner just makes prediction even more of a headache than it already is. When you're faster and able to OHKO the most threatening foe there's less risk in your partner not using the ideal move; obviously you'd like them to be able to OHKO the remaining foe, but they might only get it to 50% instead leaving it in range for you to KO. But if you let them go first it just makes the game that much harder. A single bad play from your partner when they have a frail lead like Alakazam can be devastating.
Another downside is that Machamp's defensive prowess is pretty bad. It's bulky enough to take a couple of hits, but Fighting has several common and exploitable weaknesses. Most Flying and Psychic Pokemon are fast enough to outspeed you - you have no defence at all against Latias, Latios, Alakazam, Starmie, Aerodactyl, Crobat, Espeon. Even other stuff like Gengar, Froslass, and Mismagius will be tricky if you happen to get locked into the wrong move. And No Guard, of course, means that everyone else's low-accuracy moves will never miss.
Machamp's good, but ultimately I decided it's not optimal to use in conjunction with an AI partner. But it definitely has utility elsewhere...
Tauros
@ Life Orb (Intimidate)
Double-Edge
Earthquake
Rock Slide
Zen Headbutt
4 HP, 252 Attack/Speed (Jolly)
Tauros again. In Gen III Tauros' limited movepool meant that a lead with Choice Band and only two moves was sufficient in 99% of matches. One generation later and some appreciated additions mean that it generally plays better with versatility.
As it is, though, I decided to experiment with using it in the backup slot in Gen IV. I used Adamant Tauros in the Gen III Tower but there's no option but to go Jolly here - outspeeds Infernape and a couple of Weavile/Alakazam variants, and ties with a bunch of crucial sets you need to KO. Rock Slide has a lot of use when there are two dangerous foes on the field - fishing for flinches is often a surprisingly effective strategy, and it can be a good way to pick off a weakened foe while also doing some chip damage to the other. Zen Headbutt is a good way to punish Fighting-types.
But the switch to Jolly and the removal of the trusty Choice Band does represent a big drop in power overall, so I'm not convinced that Tauros is the best backup one could ask for. It gets things done for sure, but there's something to be said for the brutal possibility of lead CB Tauros.
Froslass
@ Expert Belt (Snow Cloak)
Blizzard
Shadow Ball
Thunderbolt
Destiny Bond
6 HP, 252 Sp.Atk/Speed (Timid)
I confess I fell more or less head over heels with Froslass after using it in my Frontier challenge where it absolutely slapped. When looking at potential team members, Froslass's impressive speed, unique typing and highly useful immunities led me to think it might have the makings of a great lead.
I was very quickly disabused of this notion. Unfortunately, while Froslass might well be suited to a lot of formats, this is not one of them. It's just too weak, both offensively and defensively. Intimidate support might be helpful on this front, but that's never a given and Froslass also suffers from being vulnerable to several priority moves - Bullet Punch, Shadow Sneak, Sucker Punch. Given the rarity of the first two and the AI's general clumsiness with the third one might assume these wouldn't be such a problem. However, for a couple of sets Sucker Punch is their only means of hitting Froslass so odds are they'd just use it anyway.
The deciding factor, though, is how much it underperforms as an attacker. Blizzard is needed over Ice Beam because the latter is just too weak - and even with a Life Orb equipped, Blizzard doesn't come near to an OHKO on Latios thanks to the spread-damage penalty. You'd have to run Choice Specs to be assured of it, but of course even then you've got Blizzard's accuracy to contend with. You can go with Shadow Ball, of course, but that's not a guaranteed OHKO either.
Thunderbolt is overall the best coverage option but only because it's just a decent neutral move: you'd need a Life Orb to have a chance of OHKOing Gyarados1 or Gyarados3 with it. Signal Beam, or perhaps an exotic Hidden Power, looks good on paper but pretty much all the notable Pokemon Signal Beam gets the KO on are Grass-types, which your Ice attacks are better against anyway. It's not as if you'll be OHKOing Tyranitar with HP Fighting, and you only OHKO two variants of Scizor with HP Fire.
Too unreliable all round. In a last-ditch attempt to save face, I did wonder about the possibility of Destiny Bond. This would, probably fairly reliably, guarantee some kills, especially if paired with a Focus Sash.
But it's not the aim of the game here. You want to be KOing things yourself - is it really worth losing one of your Pokemon just for the opponent losing one of theirs? In singles the answer to that question is sometimes yes - in multi the answer is no. Sacrificing your lead means that you're putting the onus of winning onto your AI partner, and that is not the way to win.
Sorry, Froslass. Breaks my heart to say no to you.
Moltres
@ Expert Belt (Pressure)
Flamethrower
Air Slash
Ancientpower
Hidden Power Grass
6 HP, 252 Sp.Atk/Speed (Timid)
All three of the birds are fairly lacklustre partners when used by NPCs in Gen III's Frontier given their shallow movesets and typically mixed offences, though they can be worth a shot if you have a powerful Earthquake user to pair them with. However, I've partnered with Mira on a couple of occasions when she brought Moltres4 and have been impressed with it: it's far improved in Gen IV and finally has enough options to put together a competent moveset, which made me consider how viable it'd be to use it myself.
It can do a few different things. Overheat+White Herb looks tempting on paper, but is ultimately not the best use of the slot since Moltres' other moves tend to be fairly weak and need the boost. This is also why running a damage-resist berry like Passho or Charti isn't a good idea. What does makes Moltres particularly attractive is that it doesn't require a Life Orb to be powerful; Expert Belt is quite sufficient to KO Steelix, and Bronzong's bulkiest sets are within reach of an OHKO if they don't have Heatproof. You do need a Life Orb to OHKO Aggron and the bulkiest variants of Meganium and Venusaur, but all of those Pokemon have common enough weaknesses that your other Pokemon should be able to finish the job for you. Hidden Power Grass looks weak and requires an inferior Special Attack IV, but worth using: you OHKO Rhyperior even through Solid Rock, which is just ridiculous.
It's far from perfect, though. Pressure is occasionally useful, but you still die to most Rock attacks even if you have Intimidate support. And it's fast but is yet another Pokemon that needs to run Timid, which is annoying - if only it got some more powerful moves I think Choice Scarf Modest Moltres would be viable and potentially quite devastating. In sunny weather, Moltres is potentially devastatingly powerful but it's just too frail to spend time setting that up itself.
Ultimately I decided quite early on that Moltres isn't the best pick and not worth using yourself, but it is pretty good and is definitely worth a shot when Mira has it - provided it's Moltres4 and you have a partner that suits it well.
Latias
@ White Herb (Levitate)
Draco Meteor
Psychic
Energy Ball
Thunderbolt
4 HP, 252 Sp.Atk/Speed (Timid)
Despite my reasoning for avoiding Latios, I partnered with Mira in one round who brought the stellar Latias3 as a lead. It was so effective I began to wonder if a variant of that would serve me well. And it did.
It's so good. Energy Ball makes this set absolutely fantastic as it neatly clinches the OHKO on so many things you couldn't reliably KO in Gen III. Obviously watch out for Rindo Berries though. Much as with Tauros, it stinks not to be able to go Modest but Timid is required to just squeak past those troublesome speed tiers you need to outpace. It would lose to so many things with a Modest nature: being able to beat all 4 variants of Weavile is just insane.
Even despite the neutral nature, Draco Meteor hits like a nuke. It's worth stating that Draco Meteor should not be a mindless go-to against most opponents, as its imperfect accuracy will cause problems when you least want it to. But that's largely moot as the incredible coverage this set boasts means you can grab a turn-one kill very often without having to resort to Draco Meteor. You lose the White Herb to stray Intimidates or Signal Beams a lot of the time but even then you've still got one mega-powerful hit as a last resort; it's a particularly good way to make it easy for something else to mop up if it's likely to go down. Generally speaking I'm inclined to play more conservatively than this but the fact is that Draco Meteor is mandatory on Latias if you want to get the kills you need. Even with a Life Orb Dragon Pulse just doesn't hit hard enough to be a guaranteed one-and-done on all opposing dragons. It doesn't even OHKO Altaria1 which is just tragic.
This begs the question of why not simply go with Latios, which doesn't even necessarily need to run Draco Meteor, or a Life Orb, to get the same results. It's something I'm inclined to experiment with in future but as mentioned Latios' frailty is a big drawback. I even mulled the idea of using Latios but giving it a complicated EV spread to give it vaguely comparable defences to Latias while having the same speed and power, but abandoned the idea as impractical - if you're using Latios, surely the advantage is the extra power.
In the Gen III Frontier my star team was Choice Band Tauros leading with Lum Berry Latios in the back. While there's every possibility that could have also worked here, I've found that Latios is slightly more frail in this era than I'd like - too much can hit it for super-effective damage thanks to the proliferation of powerful Bug, Dark, and Dragon moves and the physical/special split. It's still an effective sweeper, but it doesn't hit quite hard enough to justify its usage unless you go all-out on offenses and run a Life Orb or Choice Specs, which I was reluctant to do. So I decided to explore some other options, which I'll expound on below.
Staraptor
@ Choice Scarf (Intimidate)Brave Bird
Giga Impact
Close Combat
U-Turn
4 HP, 252 Attack, 76 Def, 4 Sp.Def, 172 Speed (Adamant)
Staraptor did me well in Gen V's Subway recently so I decided to give it a shot here. As a lead it's superb, and routinely gets a clean kill on turn one.
Brave Bird and Close Combat are your bread and butter; Brave Bird kills so much stuff, even when it hits for neutral damage. Staraptor has to go first because Choice Scarf, obviously; I find that U-Turn sees less use than it did in the Subway, but it can be an effective way to take out something like Alakazam or Shiftry for "free", or occasionally deal some chip damage and escape an unfavourable matchup. Giga Impact is basically there as last resort. Obviously undesirable to use for more reasons than one but it can be an absolute boon to take out something you otherwise couldn't or guarantee that your partner's move which may have only 2HKOed will finish the job.
EVs were tweaked for less Speed relative to the Subway as the Frontier is much slower by comparison: the only things faster than 211 are Linoone2 (irrelevant) and Porygon-Z2 (not threatening enough to make an exception for). The rest is dumped into bulk to try and capitalise on Intimidate as much as possible.
Staraptor might not look top-tier, but played effectively it's an excellent lead and can absolutely lay waste to opponent teams if given the opportunity. Don't underestimate it.
Machamp
@ Choice Scarf (No Guard)Dynamicpunch
Stone Edge
Earthquake
Ice Punch
12 HP, 252 Attack, 244 Speed (Adamant)
The notion of a Choice Scarf lead had a lot of appeal, and one other Pokemon came to mind as an effective turn-one killer: Machamp.
No Guard is a devastating ability, and it turns Machamp into an absolute monster. I used it in singles and it was great. But it's too slow to be dominating - unless you give it a Choice Scarf. The stat spread is simple enough. With max speed, Adamant Scarfed Machamp reaches 160 Speed which, while not quite as fast as you'd like, outruns a wide swathe of foes and ties with Infernape alone. Frankly, Infernape isn't worth the bother - it can't KO you; nor can you in return, but Dynamicpunch does ~95% and gives you a chance of confusion damage next turn. So you can afford to drop a few points. A Speed stat of 105 reaches 157 after Scarf, which ties with a few things that aren't especially threatening - oh, but hang on, Rapidash3 (which has Horn Drill) is at 157 as well, so you do need to get to 106.
That's about it. There's no point going Jolly because the Speed increase is negligible (you don't even outrun Adamant Weavile) and also because Machamp reaches such a sexy Attack benchmark. You still miss KOs against some exceptionally bulky stuff - Cradily, Rhyperior, Registeel - but guaranteed confusion is superb and makes the 2HKOs more achievable. Only Rhyperior3 is a 3HKO, and even then only when it has Solid Rock.
Paired with something faster, Machamp often does astonishingly well. And Machamp pairs well with speedier special attackers because it's particularly good at taking out the stuff they generally can't - Walrein3, for instance. Dynamicpunch does not OHKO but it leaves it with a shred of health, confused, which greatly lessens the likelihood of it being able to respond. The only drawback here is that No Guard obviously guarantees that Walrein can hit you with Fissure/Sheer Cold, so the only thing to do is to attack with both Pokemon. Just pile on for the KO.
The downsides to Machamp, though, are many and varied. First is that it just isn't fast enough, and is outsped by a lot of speedier Pokemon even when they're not Timid/Jolly. Relying on a faster partner just makes prediction even more of a headache than it already is. When you're faster and able to OHKO the most threatening foe there's less risk in your partner not using the ideal move; obviously you'd like them to be able to OHKO the remaining foe, but they might only get it to 50% instead leaving it in range for you to KO. But if you let them go first it just makes the game that much harder. A single bad play from your partner when they have a frail lead like Alakazam can be devastating.
Another downside is that Machamp's defensive prowess is pretty bad. It's bulky enough to take a couple of hits, but Fighting has several common and exploitable weaknesses. Most Flying and Psychic Pokemon are fast enough to outspeed you - you have no defence at all against Latias, Latios, Alakazam, Starmie, Aerodactyl, Crobat, Espeon. Even other stuff like Gengar, Froslass, and Mismagius will be tricky if you happen to get locked into the wrong move. And No Guard, of course, means that everyone else's low-accuracy moves will never miss.
Machamp's good, but ultimately I decided it's not optimal to use in conjunction with an AI partner. But it definitely has utility elsewhere...
Tauros
@ Life Orb (Intimidate)Double-Edge
Earthquake
Rock Slide
Zen Headbutt
4 HP, 252 Attack/Speed (Jolly)
Tauros again. In Gen III Tauros' limited movepool meant that a lead with Choice Band and only two moves was sufficient in 99% of matches. One generation later and some appreciated additions mean that it generally plays better with versatility.
As it is, though, I decided to experiment with using it in the backup slot in Gen IV. I used Adamant Tauros in the Gen III Tower but there's no option but to go Jolly here - outspeeds Infernape and a couple of Weavile/Alakazam variants, and ties with a bunch of crucial sets you need to KO. Rock Slide has a lot of use when there are two dangerous foes on the field - fishing for flinches is often a surprisingly effective strategy, and it can be a good way to pick off a weakened foe while also doing some chip damage to the other. Zen Headbutt is a good way to punish Fighting-types.
But the switch to Jolly and the removal of the trusty Choice Band does represent a big drop in power overall, so I'm not convinced that Tauros is the best backup one could ask for. It gets things done for sure, but there's something to be said for the brutal possibility of lead CB Tauros.
Froslass
@ Expert Belt (Snow Cloak)Blizzard
Shadow Ball
Thunderbolt
Destiny Bond
6 HP, 252 Sp.Atk/Speed (Timid)
I confess I fell more or less head over heels with Froslass after using it in my Frontier challenge where it absolutely slapped. When looking at potential team members, Froslass's impressive speed, unique typing and highly useful immunities led me to think it might have the makings of a great lead.
I was very quickly disabused of this notion. Unfortunately, while Froslass might well be suited to a lot of formats, this is not one of them. It's just too weak, both offensively and defensively. Intimidate support might be helpful on this front, but that's never a given and Froslass also suffers from being vulnerable to several priority moves - Bullet Punch, Shadow Sneak, Sucker Punch. Given the rarity of the first two and the AI's general clumsiness with the third one might assume these wouldn't be such a problem. However, for a couple of sets Sucker Punch is their only means of hitting Froslass so odds are they'd just use it anyway.
The deciding factor, though, is how much it underperforms as an attacker. Blizzard is needed over Ice Beam because the latter is just too weak - and even with a Life Orb equipped, Blizzard doesn't come near to an OHKO on Latios thanks to the spread-damage penalty. You'd have to run Choice Specs to be assured of it, but of course even then you've got Blizzard's accuracy to contend with. You can go with Shadow Ball, of course, but that's not a guaranteed OHKO either.
Thunderbolt is overall the best coverage option but only because it's just a decent neutral move: you'd need a Life Orb to have a chance of OHKOing Gyarados1 or Gyarados3 with it. Signal Beam, or perhaps an exotic Hidden Power, looks good on paper but pretty much all the notable Pokemon Signal Beam gets the KO on are Grass-types, which your Ice attacks are better against anyway. It's not as if you'll be OHKOing Tyranitar with HP Fighting, and you only OHKO two variants of Scizor with HP Fire.
Too unreliable all round. In a last-ditch attempt to save face, I did wonder about the possibility of Destiny Bond. This would, probably fairly reliably, guarantee some kills, especially if paired with a Focus Sash.
But it's not the aim of the game here. You want to be KOing things yourself - is it really worth losing one of your Pokemon just for the opponent losing one of theirs? In singles the answer to that question is sometimes yes - in multi the answer is no. Sacrificing your lead means that you're putting the onus of winning onto your AI partner, and that is not the way to win.
Sorry, Froslass. Breaks my heart to say no to you.
Moltres
@ Expert Belt (Pressure)Flamethrower
Air Slash
Ancientpower
Hidden Power Grass
6 HP, 252 Sp.Atk/Speed (Timid)
All three of the birds are fairly lacklustre partners when used by NPCs in Gen III's Frontier given their shallow movesets and typically mixed offences, though they can be worth a shot if you have a powerful Earthquake user to pair them with. However, I've partnered with Mira on a couple of occasions when she brought Moltres4 and have been impressed with it: it's far improved in Gen IV and finally has enough options to put together a competent moveset, which made me consider how viable it'd be to use it myself.
It can do a few different things. Overheat+White Herb looks tempting on paper, but is ultimately not the best use of the slot since Moltres' other moves tend to be fairly weak and need the boost. This is also why running a damage-resist berry like Passho or Charti isn't a good idea. What does makes Moltres particularly attractive is that it doesn't require a Life Orb to be powerful; Expert Belt is quite sufficient to KO Steelix, and Bronzong's bulkiest sets are within reach of an OHKO if they don't have Heatproof. You do need a Life Orb to OHKO Aggron and the bulkiest variants of Meganium and Venusaur, but all of those Pokemon have common enough weaknesses that your other Pokemon should be able to finish the job for you. Hidden Power Grass looks weak and requires an inferior Special Attack IV, but worth using: you OHKO Rhyperior even through Solid Rock, which is just ridiculous.
It's far from perfect, though. Pressure is occasionally useful, but you still die to most Rock attacks even if you have Intimidate support. And it's fast but is yet another Pokemon that needs to run Timid, which is annoying - if only it got some more powerful moves I think Choice Scarf Modest Moltres would be viable and potentially quite devastating. In sunny weather, Moltres is potentially devastatingly powerful but it's just too frail to spend time setting that up itself.
Ultimately I decided quite early on that Moltres isn't the best pick and not worth using yourself, but it is pretty good and is definitely worth a shot when Mira has it - provided it's Moltres4 and you have a partner that suits it well.
Latias
@ White Herb (Levitate)Draco Meteor
Psychic
Energy Ball
Thunderbolt
4 HP, 252 Sp.Atk/Speed (Timid)
Despite my reasoning for avoiding Latios, I partnered with Mira in one round who brought the stellar Latias3 as a lead. It was so effective I began to wonder if a variant of that would serve me well. And it did.
It's so good. Energy Ball makes this set absolutely fantastic as it neatly clinches the OHKO on so many things you couldn't reliably KO in Gen III. Obviously watch out for Rindo Berries though. Much as with Tauros, it stinks not to be able to go Modest but Timid is required to just squeak past those troublesome speed tiers you need to outpace. It would lose to so many things with a Modest nature: being able to beat all 4 variants of Weavile is just insane.
Even despite the neutral nature, Draco Meteor hits like a nuke. It's worth stating that Draco Meteor should not be a mindless go-to against most opponents, as its imperfect accuracy will cause problems when you least want it to. But that's largely moot as the incredible coverage this set boasts means you can grab a turn-one kill very often without having to resort to Draco Meteor. You lose the White Herb to stray Intimidates or Signal Beams a lot of the time but even then you've still got one mega-powerful hit as a last resort; it's a particularly good way to make it easy for something else to mop up if it's likely to go down. Generally speaking I'm inclined to play more conservatively than this but the fact is that Draco Meteor is mandatory on Latias if you want to get the kills you need. Even with a Life Orb Dragon Pulse just doesn't hit hard enough to be a guaranteed one-and-done on all opposing dragons. It doesn't even OHKO Altaria1 which is just tragic.
This begs the question of why not simply go with Latios, which doesn't even necessarily need to run Draco Meteor, or a Life Orb, to get the same results. It's something I'm inclined to experiment with in future but as mentioned Latios' frailty is a big drawback. I even mulled the idea of using Latios but giving it a complicated EV spread to give it vaguely comparable defences to Latias while having the same speed and power, but abandoned the idea as impractical - if you're using Latios, surely the advantage is the extra power.
Once you sign up and choose not to partner with a real-life friend, the receptionist will take you into a room full of potential NPC partners, which both Gen III and IV refer to as the Battle Salon.
The way partners are generated in Gen IV's Salon is a fun alternative to the randomness of Gen III's picks. What made Gen III multi quite fun but equally often incredibly challenging was the jankiness of the sets you'd be presented to partner with. In Emerald you'd get up to eight partner options and you'd have to win your way up to 40+ battles to see NPCs bringing seriously good Pokemon with any regularity. Even then they were rarely supremely powerful. It wasn't all bad, though. In Gen III you could actually rig the game in your favour somewhat by giving yourself a preset partner with a guaranteed team via mixing records with another game. This was what I did; initially as a last resort if I ever found myself facing a room full of terrible options, though when I made my record streak the preset partner ended up being who I'd choose 99% of the time.
In Gen IV, however, you have the choice of partnering with one of five trainers, all with their own specialty:
Broadly speaking, Riley and Mira are the only ones I consider worth partnering with. Marley can suffice in a pinch, but usually even a crap draw from one of the others beats out even her best picks - Dugtrio, Ninjask, and Electrode are not desirable partners no matter how good their movesets are.
Keep in mind that the variance of sets means that occasionally your partners will subvert their typical preference, since they typically have multiple variants of the same Pokemon. For instance, Riley can use multiple Pokemon with special movesets - Dragonite3, Entei3, Entei4, Salamence3, Garchomp2, Lucario1, Lucario4. Most of those are actually pretty great options and worth consideration. Interestingly, while Riley can use special sets, the same isn't true of Mira - Togekiss1, Yanmega2, Exeggutor3, Zapdos1, Zapdos3, Moltres3, Empoleon1, Empoleon2, and Magnezone2 are not in her pool. You won't miss them, they're garbage. She does bring Latias2 and Latios2 though, disappointingly.
Thanks to all five of the trainers having at least a couple of funky non-standard picks, Cheryl very occasionally has a team worth consideration (Alakazam2, Starmie3, Porygon-Z4, Snorlax3 and Snorlax4 being the main ones). In general though, she and Buck have very little merit as partners due to the sheer passivity of the Pokemon they use. The only halfway viable Pokemon Buck brings to the table are Metagross, Articuno, and Suicune and frankly it's incredibly unlikely that you'd be in a situation where none of the others had anything better.
Like seriously I cannot stress enough that even Riley's worst picks are usually better in general than Buck's best. I've partnered with Riley when he was using Entei2 and Gyarados1 as leads. Both truly garbage and yet I'd rather either of those than Umbreon because they can accomplish so much more overall.
This obviously depends on what you bring, though. You might well create a team which appreciates having defensive partners on hand. But the fast, highly offensive nature of doubles means that defensive Pokemon are rarely able to perform well here. Many of them are slow, have limited coverage, or run movesets containing strategies that need time to be properly executed such as Hypnosis+Dream Eater. Additionally, many common defensive Pokemon such as Probopass and Registeel are highly vulnerable to a lot of commonly-seen attacks - particularly ones that hit both foes, like Earthquake and Heat Wave.
RNG being what it is, at some point you will inevitably enter the Battle Salon and be presented with a room full of crappy drafts. However, the next section details why this need not spell doom for your run.
The way partners are generated in Gen IV's Salon is a fun alternative to the randomness of Gen III's picks. What made Gen III multi quite fun but equally often incredibly challenging was the jankiness of the sets you'd be presented to partner with. In Emerald you'd get up to eight partner options and you'd have to win your way up to 40+ battles to see NPCs bringing seriously good Pokemon with any regularity. Even then they were rarely supremely powerful. It wasn't all bad, though. In Gen III you could actually rig the game in your favour somewhat by giving yourself a preset partner with a guaranteed team via mixing records with another game. This was what I did; initially as a last resort if I ever found myself facing a room full of terrible options, though when I made my record streak the preset partner ended up being who I'd choose 99% of the time.
In Gen IV, however, you have the choice of partnering with one of five trainers, all with their own specialty:
- Riley uses Pokemon with high attack like Salamence, Heracross, Gallade, and Rampardos
- Mira uses Pokemon with high special attack like Espeon, Porygon-Z, Exeggutor, and Gardevoir
- Marley uses Pokemon with high speed like Weavile, Electrode, Dugtrio, and Floatzel
- Buck uses defensively-oriented Pokemon like Shuckle, Probopass, Umbreon, and Bronzong
- Cheryl uses high-HP Pokemon like Snorlax, Milotic, Wailord, and Wobbuffet
Broadly speaking, Riley and Mira are the only ones I consider worth partnering with. Marley can suffice in a pinch, but usually even a crap draw from one of the others beats out even her best picks - Dugtrio, Ninjask, and Electrode are not desirable partners no matter how good their movesets are.
Keep in mind that the variance of sets means that occasionally your partners will subvert their typical preference, since they typically have multiple variants of the same Pokemon. For instance, Riley can use multiple Pokemon with special movesets - Dragonite3, Entei3, Entei4, Salamence3, Garchomp2, Lucario1, Lucario4. Most of those are actually pretty great options and worth consideration. Interestingly, while Riley can use special sets, the same isn't true of Mira - Togekiss1, Yanmega2, Exeggutor3, Zapdos1, Zapdos3, Moltres3, Empoleon1, Empoleon2, and Magnezone2 are not in her pool. You won't miss them, they're garbage. She does bring Latias2 and Latios2 though, disappointingly.
Thanks to all five of the trainers having at least a couple of funky non-standard picks, Cheryl very occasionally has a team worth consideration (Alakazam2, Starmie3, Porygon-Z4, Snorlax3 and Snorlax4 being the main ones). In general though, she and Buck have very little merit as partners due to the sheer passivity of the Pokemon they use. The only halfway viable Pokemon Buck brings to the table are Metagross, Articuno, and Suicune and frankly it's incredibly unlikely that you'd be in a situation where none of the others had anything better.
Like seriously I cannot stress enough that even Riley's worst picks are usually better in general than Buck's best. I've partnered with Riley when he was using Entei2 and Gyarados1 as leads. Both truly garbage and yet I'd rather either of those than Umbreon because they can accomplish so much more overall.
This obviously depends on what you bring, though. You might well create a team which appreciates having defensive partners on hand. But the fast, highly offensive nature of doubles means that defensive Pokemon are rarely able to perform well here. Many of them are slow, have limited coverage, or run movesets containing strategies that need time to be properly executed such as Hypnosis+Dream Eater. Additionally, many common defensive Pokemon such as Probopass and Registeel are highly vulnerable to a lot of commonly-seen attacks - particularly ones that hit both foes, like Earthquake and Heat Wave.
RNG being what it is, at some point you will inevitably enter the Battle Salon and be presented with a room full of crappy drafts. However, the next section details why this need not spell doom for your run.
In a way, Battle Factory makes for good training for this place since you are, more or less, renting a team here too. Except here there's an additional difficulty in that you only get told each Pokemon's first move (keep in mind that it's not a random move - it is always the first one). This is the only information you get, so you need to use it well.
A list of every set in the Frontier is your go-to tool. Familiarise yourself with what every Pokemon carries, and cross-reference when you're choosing in order to be able to reliably intuit which Pokemon you'll get. Knowing the first move isn't always helpful with this (Pinsir for instance has X-Scissor as its first move for all four of its sets - though in the case of Pinsir specifically this is less of a problem since three out of its four are decent enough to get by). Even with more varied sets it's rarely possible to know for certain which one you're getting since a lot of Pokemon still have two sets where the first move is identical (Gengar, Gallade, Latias et al). This is where items come into play.
Let's say Riley says that he's leading with a Lucario that knows Aura Sphere. That could be Lucario1 or Lucario3, since both have Aura Sphere as their first move. However, he then tells you his second Pokemon is a Dragonite that knows Draco Meteor, ie Dragonite3, which holds an Expert Belt. With this in mind we know for certain that his Lucario must be Lucario1.
The fun doesn't end there though: when choosing a partner, you must also take abilities into account. Abilities for Frontier Pokemon are randomised, which can have a drastic effect on a Pokemon's viability - what if your partner's specially-oriented Togekiss has Hustle instead of Serene Grace? Togekiss is probably the prime example of a top-tier species that can be majorly compromised by having the wrong ability - there aren't too many others, though Porygon-Z, Breloom, Snorlax, Aerodactyl, Rhyperior, Tauros, and Pinsir are all ones to be aware of if you happen to choose them. It's worth pointing out that this can end up boosting the viability of certain other species: it's probably more useful for your partner's Roserade to have Poison Point for the off-chance of a poison infliction, since NPCs almost never switch and therefore Natural Cure isn't particularly helpful.
But what you absolutely should not be doing is choosing partners on the presumption of a certain ability. Lightningrod Rhyperior is very cool if you're bringing a Flying-type, but there's no guarantee that it won't have Solid Rock instead. It's a perplexing catch-22 that a successful multi team should be composed of Pokemon which complement each other well, but can also operate fine without worrying about each other.
If in doubt, go with what ultimately complements your team best, such as a Flying-type if your lead has Earthquake or a special attacker if your lead is a physical attacker. It's worth saying that even inferior picks can still be decent enough to get by if your team is solid: even an objectively poor Pokemon like Espeon2 can pull its weight provided you can give it the room to do so.
Notes on rerolling teams
As I said, though, sometimes you will be presented with undesirable choices which can make selecting a partner difficult. However, this is what feels completely broken: you can reroll teams! Yes, unlike in Gen III, you can actually back out and leave without choosing a partner without affecting the progress of your ongoing streak. In Gen III this would count as you quitting your streak and end your progress - however, you were permitted to swap the order of your team members whilst in the Battle Salon, allowing you to adjust your team to a partner who was appealing but perhaps didn't have their team in the right order. You can't do that here but, if you talk to the receptionist, sign up again and re-enter the salon, your potential partners will have different teams than before. This is a fantastic find, and means that there's no excuse to go into the Tower partnered with a shitty draft since you will always be able to try again for a better alternative.
However, there's a caveat. While I was already aware that you could leave without consequence, it took me a while to realise that teams reroll - this is because it seems that they only reroll if you bring a different team. I tested this a couple of times and got different results on each try: my notes on this are below. Further research would be much appreciated from anyone capable of digging into the game code.
A comment I saw on Reddit claims that the teams will reroll on their own if 24 hours pass; this might well be true but is the reroll when bringing new teams independent of this? It seems like it would be. If the 24 hours thing is true it might possibly only be the case for each individual streak (maybe it can happen multiple times in a day, but only once in each attempt you make)? Either way, however, this cemented my belief that I should probably have a variety of Pokemon in my personal pool instead of just two.
As a final note, what prompted this discovery was that, for some reason, quite often the team drafts offered will be identical from one round to the next (for more than one partner). So, as a random example, if in round 1 Riley offers Ursaring2 and Gallade4, Mira offers Exeggutor3 and Latias1, and Marley offers Weavile4 and Floatzel3, once you complete round 1 and begin round 2, they may well have the exact same drafts again. I'm not sure how the RNG is calculated here but I wonder if the way it's done is a little faulty, as this occurred several times throughout my various streaks. Still, if it wasn't the case I wouldn't have discovered the ability to reroll teams, so it's not the end of the world.
A list of every set in the Frontier is your go-to tool. Familiarise yourself with what every Pokemon carries, and cross-reference when you're choosing in order to be able to reliably intuit which Pokemon you'll get. Knowing the first move isn't always helpful with this (Pinsir for instance has X-Scissor as its first move for all four of its sets - though in the case of Pinsir specifically this is less of a problem since three out of its four are decent enough to get by). Even with more varied sets it's rarely possible to know for certain which one you're getting since a lot of Pokemon still have two sets where the first move is identical (Gengar, Gallade, Latias et al). This is where items come into play.
Let's say Riley says that he's leading with a Lucario that knows Aura Sphere. That could be Lucario1 or Lucario3, since both have Aura Sphere as their first move. However, he then tells you his second Pokemon is a Dragonite that knows Draco Meteor, ie Dragonite3, which holds an Expert Belt. With this in mind we know for certain that his Lucario must be Lucario1.
The fun doesn't end there though: when choosing a partner, you must also take abilities into account. Abilities for Frontier Pokemon are randomised, which can have a drastic effect on a Pokemon's viability - what if your partner's specially-oriented Togekiss has Hustle instead of Serene Grace? Togekiss is probably the prime example of a top-tier species that can be majorly compromised by having the wrong ability - there aren't too many others, though Porygon-Z, Breloom, Snorlax, Aerodactyl, Rhyperior, Tauros, and Pinsir are all ones to be aware of if you happen to choose them. It's worth pointing out that this can end up boosting the viability of certain other species: it's probably more useful for your partner's Roserade to have Poison Point for the off-chance of a poison infliction, since NPCs almost never switch and therefore Natural Cure isn't particularly helpful.
But what you absolutely should not be doing is choosing partners on the presumption of a certain ability. Lightningrod Rhyperior is very cool if you're bringing a Flying-type, but there's no guarantee that it won't have Solid Rock instead. It's a perplexing catch-22 that a successful multi team should be composed of Pokemon which complement each other well, but can also operate fine without worrying about each other.
If in doubt, go with what ultimately complements your team best, such as a Flying-type if your lead has Earthquake or a special attacker if your lead is a physical attacker. It's worth saying that even inferior picks can still be decent enough to get by if your team is solid: even an objectively poor Pokemon like Espeon2 can pull its weight provided you can give it the room to do so.
Notes on rerolling teams
As I said, though, sometimes you will be presented with undesirable choices which can make selecting a partner difficult. However, this is what feels completely broken: you can reroll teams! Yes, unlike in Gen III, you can actually back out and leave without choosing a partner without affecting the progress of your ongoing streak. In Gen III this would count as you quitting your streak and end your progress - however, you were permitted to swap the order of your team members whilst in the Battle Salon, allowing you to adjust your team to a partner who was appealing but perhaps didn't have their team in the right order. You can't do that here but, if you talk to the receptionist, sign up again and re-enter the salon, your potential partners will have different teams than before. This is a fantastic find, and means that there's no excuse to go into the Tower partnered with a shitty draft since you will always be able to try again for a better alternative.
However, there's a caveat. While I was already aware that you could leave without consequence, it took me a while to realise that teams reroll - this is because it seems that they only reroll if you bring a different team. I tested this a couple of times and got different results on each try: my notes on this are below. Further research would be much appreciated from anyone capable of digging into the game code.
First try said:
Second try said:
Perhaps I was simply unlucky that third time, but it's odd that entering with the same lead but a different backup didn't trigger a change when it did before. Unclear what prompts the trigger for a reroll. I need to experiment further with this because there's a lot to discover here.Third try said:
A comment I saw on Reddit claims that the teams will reroll on their own if 24 hours pass; this might well be true but is the reroll when bringing new teams independent of this? It seems like it would be. If the 24 hours thing is true it might possibly only be the case for each individual streak (maybe it can happen multiple times in a day, but only once in each attempt you make)? Either way, however, this cemented my belief that I should probably have a variety of Pokemon in my personal pool instead of just two.
As a final note, what prompted this discovery was that, for some reason, quite often the team drafts offered will be identical from one round to the next (for more than one partner). So, as a random example, if in round 1 Riley offers Ursaring2 and Gallade4, Mira offers Exeggutor3 and Latias1, and Marley offers Weavile4 and Floatzel3, once you complete round 1 and begin round 2, they may well have the exact same drafts again. I'm not sure how the RNG is calculated here but I wonder if the way it's done is a little faulty, as this occurred several times throughout my various streaks. Still, if it wasn't the case I wouldn't have discovered the ability to reroll teams, so it's not the end of the world.
Of course, regardless of how good your partner's team may look, it doesn't matter unless you know how to get the best out of it. And I mean that literally - you need to be the one getting the best out of it, even though you don't get to control the actions they take. Knowing how the AI plays is key to succeeding in the Frontier in general, but perhaps here most of all. While nothing I've found indicates that your partner is specifically coded to act as a hindrance, it can often feel that way. Your partner can and will play like an idiot if given the opportunity, so you need to ensure that you play as well as you can to give them less opportunity to do so. Stupid AI behaviour includes, but is in no way limited to:
In the main, you are much better served by having your partner simply attack directly - there's much less opportunity for your partner to screw up if this is all they can do, so aim for a partner who has a team consisting of eight offensive moves. Anything fewer than that is subpar. Gen IV's Frontier is better in this regard than its predecessor. In Gen III it was rare that you'd get partner Pokemon with a full offensive moveset* - in Gen IV, improved options and a better distribution of moves in general mean that you're far more likely to get an offensively-oriented partner as a lot of Pokemon have more than one set with four offensive moves.
That said, the risk of your partner playing like an idiot is always present and never goes away. Pretty much the worst situation you can be in is to lose both your side's Pokemon, leaving your partner to fight alone. Sometimes they'll clinch the win but more often than not they won't. Even when it came down to an obviously winnable scenario (Metagross1 vs a weakened Regice) I still had my fist pressed to my mouth until the moment I saw Regice fall.
What all this means is that you need to rig the odds as much as you can. The best way to ensure your partner acts in a way that contributes the most value to you is:
A) KO one of the opposing Pokemon, thus guaranteeing that your partner will attack the other (assuming that they're slower)
B) if you can't KO outright, be able to leave them on >50% health, which greatly increases the likelihood that your partner will go for the achieveable kill
If you find yourself unsure what your partner might do in a given situation, take a moment to look closely at their moves and consider which one they're likeliest to use based on the type and power. Accuracy doesn't seem to be something the AI factors into their decision (ref the Magmortar example above). I've found that when the foe is low on HP and can be easily finished they'll also be harder to predict: they might use Crunch where Earthquake would have sufficed, for instance. This can occasionally be problematic if they choose a move with low accuracy and miss, or if you knock out the Pokemon they were going to target and their move doesn't affect the other foe. If they have a priority move they'll almost always go for the kill against something weakened; I've seen Metagross snipe a Hariyama with Bullet Punch even though Hariyama obviously resists Steel. But do not assume that one of your foes being on 10% automatically means a 100% chance of your partner finishing them off for you. Let's use an example to illustrate. One battle found me partnered with Riley (leading with Gyarados4). Staraptor fainted and the other side lost their second Pokemon, so it was Tauros+Gyarados up against Vaporeon alone. What's going to happen here?
As cliched as it sounds, you have to consider all possible scenarios and think a couple of moves ahead. Factoring in your partner's actions can lead to some awkward mental calculations, for which I would highly advise using a damage calculator to assist your decision-making. For instance, I once had Staraptor/Togekiss up against Gardevoir/Tyranitar. Togekiss knows Aura Sphere, which even against Tyranitar1 (the only one with max SpDef investment) is a solid OHKO. But that's moot because I can OHKO Tyranitar with Close Combat first. But what if I do that and Togekiss ends up using Aura Sphere on Gardevoir? Gardevoir might use Thunderbolt on Staraptor for the KO. Staraptor can also OHKO Gardevoir with Brave Bird, and is more likely to survive a hit from Tyranitar given the attack drop from Intimidate. Sometimes you simply have to force their hand by OHKOing a particular target: let's say it's Staraptor and Lucario vs Aggron and Bastiodon. Your partner's Lucario can OHKO both of those with Aura Sphere, but you can only get the OHKO for certain on Bastiodon with Close Combat. It's thinking like that that's key to winning battles quickly and with maximum efficiency.
Obviously, make as much use as you can from tactics like Earthquake+Levitate, but also don't be afraid to use a spread move on a partner that resists it. Several Pokemon you'll often be offered as partners take comparatively little damage from Earthquake so I'm often completely willing to let loose with one if it would mean KOing one or both of the opponent's team. It's not something I would advise doing routinely but you have to get the best possible result from each turn you take. Sometimes even sacrificing your partner might be the optimal play if it allows for a win. I was stuck once when Staraptor got unexpectedly knocked out; my partner's Metagross sniped the foe that got the kill, while the other mon we were facing - Bastiodon - got off a Double Team. Manectric came out second and I sent out Tauros. I could have gotten the quick kill on Manectric here with Double-Edge, but Metagross1 is not capable of getting a KO on Bastiodon and if it got a second Double Team under its belt I might not have been able to hit it again. Worse, hitting Manectric with Double-Edge meant that Tauros might suffer paralysis thanks to Static. It was a straightforward gamble - attack with EQ for the (almost) guaranteed double KO, or play it safe but still risk a loss. I gambled; it paid off and we won. But it was unpleasant to have to do and absolutely not a situation you want to be finding yourself in with any regularity.
This all may have made things sound overly complex, but it doesn't have to be. It often is possible to predict your partner's behaviour with a degree of certainty; if the opponent trainers send out Toxicroak and Gardevoir and your partner has an Espeon that knows Psychic, it's obviously highly likely that they will go after Toxicroak. The key thing to keep in mind is that you can't just attack "for yourself" - consider what the partner will do as well. If you KO one foe and your partner uses an ineffective move against the second, that can give that Pokemon an opportunity to gain momentum by KOing you, boosting, or inflicting you with a status.
*Got curious about this and briefly checked how many of the top-level Pokemon in Gen III's Frontier have 4 offensive moves (disregarding Counter/Mirror Coat/Destiny Bond but counting Fake Out and Explosion): it's 139/510, with progressively more from each of the four groupings - 8 from group 1, 14 from group 2, 35 from group 3, and 82 from group 4. Gen IV has a far better ratio of offensive movesets: 260/600.
- not being able to identify the most threatening/strategically important foe on the field and attacking the wrong target
- being inept at predicting when to use Counter and/or Mirror Coat
- using moves like Taunt against opponents who were going to attack directly anyway. I've seen an Absol use Taunt on an Exeggutor that had already taken the charging turn for Solarbeam
- Not being able to use Sucker Punch correctly. The aforementioned Absol had Sucker Punch and you'd think that it'd have used it on anything it successfully Taunted; instead it just avoided using the move at all
- using Protect and Detect at the wrong time, such as when opponents are more likely to target your Pokemon instead
- using a boosting move when they're low on health and likely to be KOed
- not switching to avoid the effect of Yawn
- using Toxic on a foe that has Guts, or using Thunder Wave on a foe while Trick Room is active
- using Fake Out on a Pokemon that has Inner Focus instead of on its partner which doesn't
- using Focus Punch when it's certain they'll take a hit (often repeatedly)
- using Perish Song when they are the last Pokemon
- using Mean Look on a Pokemon that already cannot switch out
- using a move simply because it damages both foes, rather than because it's super-effective against either of them
- similarly, using a spread move simply because its partner happens to be immune to it rather than because it's particularly effective
- on the other side of the coin, attacking with no regard to your safety i.e. using a spread move you aren't immune to
- not switching if they are locked into a move with no effect, such as Earthquake against a Flying-type foe
- giving opponents ample opportunity to boost their stats
- using low-accuracy moves against a foe who has boosted their evasion when a move with higher accuracy would suffice and have a better chance of connecting
- using moves randomly when they have no way to hit the foe super-effectively, rather than using the best overall option. An example of this would be a match concluding with Mira's Magmortar alone against a weakened Slowbro: it chose to use Focus Blast when Overheat would almost certainly have gotten the KO
In the main, you are much better served by having your partner simply attack directly - there's much less opportunity for your partner to screw up if this is all they can do, so aim for a partner who has a team consisting of eight offensive moves. Anything fewer than that is subpar. Gen IV's Frontier is better in this regard than its predecessor. In Gen III it was rare that you'd get partner Pokemon with a full offensive moveset* - in Gen IV, improved options and a better distribution of moves in general mean that you're far more likely to get an offensively-oriented partner as a lot of Pokemon have more than one set with four offensive moves.
That said, the risk of your partner playing like an idiot is always present and never goes away. Pretty much the worst situation you can be in is to lose both your side's Pokemon, leaving your partner to fight alone. Sometimes they'll clinch the win but more often than not they won't. Even when it came down to an obviously winnable scenario (Metagross1 vs a weakened Regice) I still had my fist pressed to my mouth until the moment I saw Regice fall.
What all this means is that you need to rig the odds as much as you can. The best way to ensure your partner acts in a way that contributes the most value to you is:
A) KO one of the opposing Pokemon, thus guaranteeing that your partner will attack the other (assuming that they're slower)
B) if you can't KO outright, be able to leave them on >50% health, which greatly increases the likelihood that your partner will go for the achieveable kill
If you find yourself unsure what your partner might do in a given situation, take a moment to look closely at their moves and consider which one they're likeliest to use based on the type and power. Accuracy doesn't seem to be something the AI factors into their decision (ref the Magmortar example above). I've found that when the foe is low on HP and can be easily finished they'll also be harder to predict: they might use Crunch where Earthquake would have sufficed, for instance. This can occasionally be problematic if they choose a move with low accuracy and miss, or if you knock out the Pokemon they were going to target and their move doesn't affect the other foe. If they have a priority move they'll almost always go for the kill against something weakened; I've seen Metagross snipe a Hariyama with Bullet Punch even though Hariyama obviously resists Steel. But do not assume that one of your foes being on 10% automatically means a 100% chance of your partner finishing them off for you. Let's use an example to illustrate. One battle found me partnered with Riley (leading with Gyarados4). Staraptor fainted and the other side lost their second Pokemon, so it was Tauros+Gyarados up against Vaporeon alone. What's going to happen here?
- Well, Gyarados is unlikely to use Waterfall (even with Water Absorb taken out of the equation it's not very effective anyway so the AI is more likely to prioritise other moves)
- It's highly unlikely to use Rest since it's almost at full health
- It's fairly unlikely it will opt to use Earthquake, since that hits me and will not KO Vaporeon. Yes, the AI will often ignore your safety, but only if it's in service of a KO
As cliched as it sounds, you have to consider all possible scenarios and think a couple of moves ahead. Factoring in your partner's actions can lead to some awkward mental calculations, for which I would highly advise using a damage calculator to assist your decision-making. For instance, I once had Staraptor/Togekiss up against Gardevoir/Tyranitar. Togekiss knows Aura Sphere, which even against Tyranitar1 (the only one with max SpDef investment) is a solid OHKO. But that's moot because I can OHKO Tyranitar with Close Combat first. But what if I do that and Togekiss ends up using Aura Sphere on Gardevoir? Gardevoir might use Thunderbolt on Staraptor for the KO. Staraptor can also OHKO Gardevoir with Brave Bird, and is more likely to survive a hit from Tyranitar given the attack drop from Intimidate. Sometimes you simply have to force their hand by OHKOing a particular target: let's say it's Staraptor and Lucario vs Aggron and Bastiodon. Your partner's Lucario can OHKO both of those with Aura Sphere, but you can only get the OHKO for certain on Bastiodon with Close Combat. It's thinking like that that's key to winning battles quickly and with maximum efficiency.
Obviously, make as much use as you can from tactics like Earthquake+Levitate, but also don't be afraid to use a spread move on a partner that resists it. Several Pokemon you'll often be offered as partners take comparatively little damage from Earthquake so I'm often completely willing to let loose with one if it would mean KOing one or both of the opponent's team. It's not something I would advise doing routinely but you have to get the best possible result from each turn you take. Sometimes even sacrificing your partner might be the optimal play if it allows for a win. I was stuck once when Staraptor got unexpectedly knocked out; my partner's Metagross sniped the foe that got the kill, while the other mon we were facing - Bastiodon - got off a Double Team. Manectric came out second and I sent out Tauros. I could have gotten the quick kill on Manectric here with Double-Edge, but Metagross1 is not capable of getting a KO on Bastiodon and if it got a second Double Team under its belt I might not have been able to hit it again. Worse, hitting Manectric with Double-Edge meant that Tauros might suffer paralysis thanks to Static. It was a straightforward gamble - attack with EQ for the (almost) guaranteed double KO, or play it safe but still risk a loss. I gambled; it paid off and we won. But it was unpleasant to have to do and absolutely not a situation you want to be finding yourself in with any regularity.
This all may have made things sound overly complex, but it doesn't have to be. It often is possible to predict your partner's behaviour with a degree of certainty; if the opponent trainers send out Toxicroak and Gardevoir and your partner has an Espeon that knows Psychic, it's obviously highly likely that they will go after Toxicroak. The key thing to keep in mind is that you can't just attack "for yourself" - consider what the partner will do as well. If you KO one foe and your partner uses an ineffective move against the second, that can give that Pokemon an opportunity to gain momentum by KOing you, boosting, or inflicting you with a status.
*Got curious about this and briefly checked how many of the top-level Pokemon in Gen III's Frontier have 4 offensive moves (disregarding Counter/Mirror Coat/Destiny Bond but counting Fake Out and Explosion): it's 139/510, with progressively more from each of the four groupings - 8 from group 1, 14 from group 2, 35 from group 3, and 82 from group 4. Gen IV has a far better ratio of offensive movesets: 260/600.
So, as outlined in the theorycrafting section above, I had a few Pokemon in my pool to play around with. A lot of trial and error predictably ensued as I swapped Pokemon back and forth, trying to see which combinations would play best together and be the most versatile in conjunction with the AI's drafts. Most effective as leads were undoubtedly Latias and Staraptor.
Latias seems the more obvious choice for a host of reasons - better bulk, generally better typing, and it's able to switch between moves. However, experience led me to conclude that Staraptor was better, for several reasons.
For one, a major difference is that Latias has to be extremely aware of what it can and cannot kill. Only one variant of Heracross survives its Psychic, for instance - it lacks Megahorn but instead knows Night Slash, which will OHKO with a critical hit. Staraptor's kills are generally cleaner, and Latias cannot afford to invest EVs into its bulk.
The second point is the fact that Blissey tends to be a priority target when it shows up - hilariously none of the Blissey in the Frontier run physical defence (even the two sets that run Counter) so Staraptor can OHKO it with ease, but it's one of those Pokemon that WILL cause trouble if left unchecked for more than a couple of turns so it needs to be killed quickly.
The third factor is team composition. Overall, Riley's picks tend to be more consistent than Mira's and Latias operates very well when partnered with a competent physical attacker, but if Riley brings something undesirable you're better off looking elsewhere, and there are a lot of Pokemon Latias doesn't fair so favourably with - particularly special attackers, who tend to be much frailer. Whereas Staraptor pairs very well with a lot of physical and special attackers, even the less impressive ones like Espeon and Exeggutor. One big reason for this is that they tend to cover things Staraptor struggles with (Rock, Ground, Electric, Ice, and sometimes bulkier Steels and Dragons) but another is that physical attackers can often do a lot more with Intimidate support.
And there's another reason why physical attackers are, overall, a safer bet: there simply aren't any defensive walls that are as much of an impediment to them as Blissey is to special ones. Skarmory, Shuckle, Aggron, Bastiodon, Registeel, Regirock, Hippowdon, and Cradily can all be handled with some degree of reliability by physical attackers, but special attackers simply cannot brute-force their way past Blissey in the same way.
Other advantages Staraptor has over Latias:
But giving your team some artificial bulk is immensely useful for the reason that it can buy your partners some extra turns to correct any potential poor play on their part. In one round I partnered with Riley who used Metagross1/Lucario3: the former is not a stellar Pokemon, but it is hella bulky and Intimidate support meant that it just did not die. Helpful, since it usually needed 3 turns to kill anything and tended to go for Light Screen first; thankfully, opponents tended to target it and it proved to be an incredible meatshield. Even when partnered with something frailer, Intimidate can give it the ability to narrowly survive something that would kill it - Roserade, Gengar, Alakazam, Yanmega, Espeon, and Rampardos are all perfectly capable of tanking a neutral hit after an Attack drop.
It also takes much of the threat out of Trick Room, EndRevvers, and anything that wants to boost. Exeggutor3 cannot be OHKOed due to Focus Sash, so unless your partner targets it as well it is almost certain that it will use Trick Room successfully. Staraptor can get the attack drop, pivot out with U-Turn, and get a second attack drop when it comes in again later, vastly reducing how threatening it is (though it's worth pointing out that Exeggutor3 often ends up KOing itself with Wood Hammer). But the majority of Trick Room setters are physical, and Dusknoir1, Claydol1, Bronzong1, Hypno1, and Exeggutor3 are all made substantially less threatening by even one Attack drop. The only one that isn't is Slowbro.
All my praise towards Staraptor aside, it's far from a perfect Pokemon, and suffers a lot from being a Flying-type. As great as it is when you pair it with a Gyarados or a Salamence - double Intimidate, potential Earthquake spam - you're highly vulnerable to Electric and/or Ice. This is also true of Latias, but Latias is much less likely to be OHKOed - even a weak Thunderbolt can see off Staraptor very easily, while Latias can survive Glaceon's Blizzard thanks to the spread-damage reduction. There are plenty of Pokemon that, on paper, make for a highly potent combination - Dragonite, Garchomp, Latias, Latios, Gengar, Alakazam - but a lot of enemy combinations can pose problems. You need to consider how you'll play around this. Obviously in general you want to be avoiding massive double weaknesses where you can - if your two leads can be annihilated by a quick Blizzard, that's bad. By contrast, a combination such as Staraptor+Heracross has fewer shared weaknesses and they largely have ways to hit the things the other dislikes, even though Heracross tends to be much less consistent.
Since Latias appreciates the added physical protection Intimidate can give, I considered using it in the backup slot. Again, on paper this is good, but some problems immediately occurred:
The other drawback is that because Double-Edge is so often your best choice against foes, you often find yourself in a position where you can do the most damage with Double-Edge, but the combined recoil and Life Orb damage will cause you to faint before your opponents can make their move, meaning they'll potentially both target your partner.
But, all that aside, Staraptor/Tauros proved over the course of many streaks to be the most reliable duo, so it was with those two I proceeded and ended up making my longest streak. More on that later.
Latias seems the more obvious choice for a host of reasons - better bulk, generally better typing, and it's able to switch between moves. However, experience led me to conclude that Staraptor was better, for several reasons.
For one, a major difference is that Latias has to be extremely aware of what it can and cannot kill. Only one variant of Heracross survives its Psychic, for instance - it lacks Megahorn but instead knows Night Slash, which will OHKO with a critical hit. Staraptor's kills are generally cleaner, and Latias cannot afford to invest EVs into its bulk.
The second point is the fact that Blissey tends to be a priority target when it shows up - hilariously none of the Blissey in the Frontier run physical defence (even the two sets that run Counter) so Staraptor can OHKO it with ease, but it's one of those Pokemon that WILL cause trouble if left unchecked for more than a couple of turns so it needs to be killed quickly.
The third factor is team composition. Overall, Riley's picks tend to be more consistent than Mira's and Latias operates very well when partnered with a competent physical attacker, but if Riley brings something undesirable you're better off looking elsewhere, and there are a lot of Pokemon Latias doesn't fair so favourably with - particularly special attackers, who tend to be much frailer. Whereas Staraptor pairs very well with a lot of physical and special attackers, even the less impressive ones like Espeon and Exeggutor. One big reason for this is that they tend to cover things Staraptor struggles with (Rock, Ground, Electric, Ice, and sometimes bulkier Steels and Dragons) but another is that physical attackers can often do a lot more with Intimidate support.
And there's another reason why physical attackers are, overall, a safer bet: there simply aren't any defensive walls that are as much of an impediment to them as Blissey is to special ones. Skarmory, Shuckle, Aggron, Bastiodon, Registeel, Regirock, Hippowdon, and Cradily can all be handled with some degree of reliability by physical attackers, but special attackers simply cannot brute-force their way past Blissey in the same way.
Other advantages Staraptor has over Latias:
- it's faster
- its immunity to Ground moves is type-based, meaning it doesn't have to worry about Mold Breaker partners
- Intimidate
But giving your team some artificial bulk is immensely useful for the reason that it can buy your partners some extra turns to correct any potential poor play on their part. In one round I partnered with Riley who used Metagross1/Lucario3: the former is not a stellar Pokemon, but it is hella bulky and Intimidate support meant that it just did not die. Helpful, since it usually needed 3 turns to kill anything and tended to go for Light Screen first; thankfully, opponents tended to target it and it proved to be an incredible meatshield. Even when partnered with something frailer, Intimidate can give it the ability to narrowly survive something that would kill it - Roserade, Gengar, Alakazam, Yanmega, Espeon, and Rampardos are all perfectly capable of tanking a neutral hit after an Attack drop.
It also takes much of the threat out of Trick Room, EndRevvers, and anything that wants to boost. Exeggutor3 cannot be OHKOed due to Focus Sash, so unless your partner targets it as well it is almost certain that it will use Trick Room successfully. Staraptor can get the attack drop, pivot out with U-Turn, and get a second attack drop when it comes in again later, vastly reducing how threatening it is (though it's worth pointing out that Exeggutor3 often ends up KOing itself with Wood Hammer). But the majority of Trick Room setters are physical, and Dusknoir1, Claydol1, Bronzong1, Hypno1, and Exeggutor3 are all made substantially less threatening by even one Attack drop. The only one that isn't is Slowbro.
All my praise towards Staraptor aside, it's far from a perfect Pokemon, and suffers a lot from being a Flying-type. As great as it is when you pair it with a Gyarados or a Salamence - double Intimidate, potential Earthquake spam - you're highly vulnerable to Electric and/or Ice. This is also true of Latias, but Latias is much less likely to be OHKOed - even a weak Thunderbolt can see off Staraptor very easily, while Latias can survive Glaceon's Blizzard thanks to the spread-damage reduction. There are plenty of Pokemon that, on paper, make for a highly potent combination - Dragonite, Garchomp, Latias, Latios, Gengar, Alakazam - but a lot of enemy combinations can pose problems. You need to consider how you'll play around this. Obviously in general you want to be avoiding massive double weaknesses where you can - if your two leads can be annihilated by a quick Blizzard, that's bad. By contrast, a combination such as Staraptor+Heracross has fewer shared weaknesses and they largely have ways to hit the things the other dislikes, even though Heracross tends to be much less consistent.
Since Latias appreciates the added physical protection Intimidate can give, I considered using it in the backup slot. Again, on paper this is good, but some problems immediately occurred:
- double Ice-weakness: Ice-types are already problematic a lot of the time even when you aren't weak to them
- generally speaking, while going mixed might be a good way to counteract crap draws from partners, a special backup makes Blissey in second position a potential run killer. Obviously if my partner's team were all physical this matters less, but what if the Pokemon they bring can't deal with Blissey (or simply get knocked out first)? Too risky. A special attacker like Latias is only optimal as a fellow lead - my backup should be physical too
The other drawback is that because Double-Edge is so often your best choice against foes, you often find yourself in a position where you can do the most damage with Double-Edge, but the combined recoil and Life Orb damage will cause you to faint before your opponents can make their move, meaning they'll potentially both target your partner.
But, all that aside, Staraptor/Tauros proved over the course of many streaks to be the most reliable duo, so it was with those two I proceeded and ended up making my longest streak. More on that later.
WRT the team I ended up choosing, in an ideal world the perfect partners would be two fast and powerful sweepers that compliment Staraptor's strengths well and can take a couple of hits before falling. Thankfully, there's a few of those. In general it's desirable to have a Flyer/Levitator as a backup to let Tauros Earthquake with impunity should it need to. I've had Roserade, Magnezone, Alakazam, Glaceon, Machamp, Lucario, Heracross, Pinsir, Gengar, Gallade, Gyarados, and Salamence as partners and felt good about all of them. Alakazam was a surprise to me; early on I was reluctant to go for frailer partners but, as noted, Intimidate support often lets it survive things it otherwise wouldn't.
Bulky offense in general is the key to success here; that said, some slower/frailer Pokemon can pull their weight under certain circumstances. Rampardos2 is pretty mediocre by itself but I had a good round partnered with Riley using that as a lead since I could usually take out the fastest/most threatening foe, giving it the opportunity to take its turn and generally contribute at least one KO. To be clear, I'm not advocating for Rampardos as a partner in general as it has too many drawbacks to be reliable but sometimes you have to make do.
The main advantage of bulky sweepers is - obviously enough - that they often narrowly avoid being KOed by stuff, which has the effect of making battles easier to predict. One might assume that any Pokemon on 10% health in a double battle isn't likely to stick around for long but, counterintuitively, it can be of great benefit to you if your partner survives a hit in this position since opponents will predictably become much more likely to target it. This can give you the breathing room to attack unimpeded (thus - rather fittingly given all their drawbacks - making your partner most useful as a meatshield). Smart play can even draw out this tactic by keeping your partner alive for extra turns; if you're facing two foes of varying speeds and your side outspeeds them both, targeting the faster foe and letting your partner deal with the slower one is a great tactic to ensure that no-one gets hit. Do keep in mind though that if your partner is vulnerable and one foe succeeds in KOing it, the other will attack you by default.
General tips/tactics
Beware partners with Mold Breaker if you're running a Pokemon with Levitate. The AI either doesn't "see" you or doesn't care about your safety: Rampardos3 is particularly bad for this as when I partnered with it (lured by the prospect of a fast Head Smash) it seemed to always choose to use Earthquake regardless of how type-effective it was, dealing damage to me in the process. Possibly the AI "sees" a Levitating partner as a benefit which makes using Earthquake favourable but fails to take into account Mold Breaker's effect. But it also seems to know it can hit opponents with Levitate, so... I'm not sure.
Always be aware which foe is the most threatening target. A lot of the time, when I lost it was because I went after the wrong target: I'd underestimate one of my foes or let get greedy and try to quickly secure the quickest, easiest kill I could. An early misplay I made was Staraptor/Alakazam against Lanturn/Whiscash. Giga Impact is never a guaranteed KO on Lanturn, but even if it survives and kills Staraptor in turn you've left it in prime position to be sniped next turn. For no reason I can fathom, I targeted Whiscash instead: Giga Impact did not KO, Alakazam used Energy Ball on it, and then Lanturn got the KO on Staraptor with Thunder. I sent out Tauros, chose to refrain from using Earthquake to avoid damaging Alakazam, and took enough recoil damage from Double-Edge that Lanturn's Hydro Pump did enough to KO.
As I alluded to in the previous section, even though partners may well carry around moves that can damage you, don't plan around gimmick strats like Storm Drain or Lightningrod. Too situational, and you can't plan here. It's the sort of thing you'll benefit from once in a blue moon. Even though Rhyperior with Lightningrod, for instance, can be an amazing partner for Staraptor, you're not going to be facing Electric-types every battle and Solid Rock will probably serve better overall since it'll likely end up taking some super-effective moves. In general Rhyperior has the potential to be a pretty effective pairing with Staraptor (as long as it isn't Rhyperior3, which sucks and is not worth taking) so I'd quite likely take it if it was offered. But I wouldn't be doing so on the presumption that it had Lightningrod - I'd be doing so on the basis that it's powerful, takes hits like a champ, and has very good coverage on three of its sets.
All other things being equal, you should go for the easier kill if you can. However, don't go for an easy kill just for the sake of it. Remember the most tried-and-tested strategy in multi: kill both the Pokemon on one side of the field if possible. It is always, always better to be 2v1 than 2v2 (obvious statement is obvious), so if you can quickly kill off both the Pokemon on one side so much the better.
Keep in mind that unlike Gen 3's Multi bug, Gen IV's Frontier does it properly and actually does mix two separate trainer pools together. What this means is that there is potential for opponents to mix-and-match: you might get two opponents who make use of drastically different weather, or use Trick Room alongside speedy Pokemon. It can be hilarious when one of your opponents brings a Hippowdon as their lead and the sandstorm damage subsequently finishes off the Focus Sash holder the other opponent brought (ref my example below). Exploit this when and where you can. Contrariwise, sometimes you will get opponents who sync up far too well - I was partnered with Mira using Latios3 once and we faced a Jynx/Froslass lead. Wasn't fun. But in general weather teams are much less of an overpowering tactic than they might otherwise be.
Don't partner with Slaking. Ever. It's just not worth the risk.
Threats and considerations
Trick Room
The obvious drawback to running a team of fast hard-hitters is that Trick Room is a huge consideration. You need a team that can survive a couple of turns and hit back; if you're running solely frail speedy sweepers who die to a single hit then Trick Room will annihilate you. This is yet another place where Intimidate support comes in handy; one time I was up against Hypno1, failed to KO it before it set up Trick Room, and genuinely spent a couple of turns switching Staraptor and Tauros in and out to neuter it and its partner (Typhlosion2, hilariously, since it got the Salac boost and ended up as the slowest one on the field).
Quick Claw
Less threatening when it's 2v2, but always worth keeping in mind. This is yet another reason Intimidate is so good - something sniping you can be devastating, but it's less so when you're able to survive a hit that might otherwise have KOed.
OHKO moves
Always threatening. Thankfully only a couple of OHKO users carry a Quick Claw, and Staraptor/Latias are immune to Fissure. But be aware of them. Rhydon is obviously notorious but I've actually not had difficulty with it yet; the most troublesome one as far as I'm concerned is the dreaded Walrein3, with Fissure and Sheer Cold. Make taking this thing down a priority because Lax Incense will ruin your day.
Bulky offense in general is the key to success here; that said, some slower/frailer Pokemon can pull their weight under certain circumstances. Rampardos2 is pretty mediocre by itself but I had a good round partnered with Riley using that as a lead since I could usually take out the fastest/most threatening foe, giving it the opportunity to take its turn and generally contribute at least one KO. To be clear, I'm not advocating for Rampardos as a partner in general as it has too many drawbacks to be reliable but sometimes you have to make do.
The main advantage of bulky sweepers is - obviously enough - that they often narrowly avoid being KOed by stuff, which has the effect of making battles easier to predict. One might assume that any Pokemon on 10% health in a double battle isn't likely to stick around for long but, counterintuitively, it can be of great benefit to you if your partner survives a hit in this position since opponents will predictably become much more likely to target it. This can give you the breathing room to attack unimpeded (thus - rather fittingly given all their drawbacks - making your partner most useful as a meatshield). Smart play can even draw out this tactic by keeping your partner alive for extra turns; if you're facing two foes of varying speeds and your side outspeeds them both, targeting the faster foe and letting your partner deal with the slower one is a great tactic to ensure that no-one gets hit. Do keep in mind though that if your partner is vulnerable and one foe succeeds in KOing it, the other will attack you by default.
General tips/tactics
Beware partners with Mold Breaker if you're running a Pokemon with Levitate. The AI either doesn't "see" you or doesn't care about your safety: Rampardos3 is particularly bad for this as when I partnered with it (lured by the prospect of a fast Head Smash) it seemed to always choose to use Earthquake regardless of how type-effective it was, dealing damage to me in the process. Possibly the AI "sees" a Levitating partner as a benefit which makes using Earthquake favourable but fails to take into account Mold Breaker's effect. But it also seems to know it can hit opponents with Levitate, so... I'm not sure.
Always be aware which foe is the most threatening target. A lot of the time, when I lost it was because I went after the wrong target: I'd underestimate one of my foes or let get greedy and try to quickly secure the quickest, easiest kill I could. An early misplay I made was Staraptor/Alakazam against Lanturn/Whiscash. Giga Impact is never a guaranteed KO on Lanturn, but even if it survives and kills Staraptor in turn you've left it in prime position to be sniped next turn. For no reason I can fathom, I targeted Whiscash instead: Giga Impact did not KO, Alakazam used Energy Ball on it, and then Lanturn got the KO on Staraptor with Thunder. I sent out Tauros, chose to refrain from using Earthquake to avoid damaging Alakazam, and took enough recoil damage from Double-Edge that Lanturn's Hydro Pump did enough to KO.
As I alluded to in the previous section, even though partners may well carry around moves that can damage you, don't plan around gimmick strats like Storm Drain or Lightningrod. Too situational, and you can't plan here. It's the sort of thing you'll benefit from once in a blue moon. Even though Rhyperior with Lightningrod, for instance, can be an amazing partner for Staraptor, you're not going to be facing Electric-types every battle and Solid Rock will probably serve better overall since it'll likely end up taking some super-effective moves. In general Rhyperior has the potential to be a pretty effective pairing with Staraptor (as long as it isn't Rhyperior3, which sucks and is not worth taking) so I'd quite likely take it if it was offered. But I wouldn't be doing so on the presumption that it had Lightningrod - I'd be doing so on the basis that it's powerful, takes hits like a champ, and has very good coverage on three of its sets.
All other things being equal, you should go for the easier kill if you can. However, don't go for an easy kill just for the sake of it. Remember the most tried-and-tested strategy in multi: kill both the Pokemon on one side of the field if possible. It is always, always better to be 2v1 than 2v2 (obvious statement is obvious), so if you can quickly kill off both the Pokemon on one side so much the better.
Keep in mind that unlike Gen 3's Multi bug, Gen IV's Frontier does it properly and actually does mix two separate trainer pools together. What this means is that there is potential for opponents to mix-and-match: you might get two opponents who make use of drastically different weather, or use Trick Room alongside speedy Pokemon. It can be hilarious when one of your opponents brings a Hippowdon as their lead and the sandstorm damage subsequently finishes off the Focus Sash holder the other opponent brought (ref my example below). Exploit this when and where you can. Contrariwise, sometimes you will get opponents who sync up far too well - I was partnered with Mira using Latios3 once and we faced a Jynx/Froslass lead. Wasn't fun. But in general weather teams are much less of an overpowering tactic than they might otherwise be.
Don't partner with Slaking. Ever. It's just not worth the risk.
Threats and considerations
Trick Room
The obvious drawback to running a team of fast hard-hitters is that Trick Room is a huge consideration. You need a team that can survive a couple of turns and hit back; if you're running solely frail speedy sweepers who die to a single hit then Trick Room will annihilate you. This is yet another place where Intimidate support comes in handy; one time I was up against Hypno1, failed to KO it before it set up Trick Room, and genuinely spent a couple of turns switching Staraptor and Tauros in and out to neuter it and its partner (Typhlosion2, hilariously, since it got the Salac boost and ended up as the slowest one on the field).
Quick Claw
Less threatening when it's 2v2, but always worth keeping in mind. This is yet another reason Intimidate is so good - something sniping you can be devastating, but it's less so when you're able to survive a hit that might otherwise have KOed.
OHKO moves
Always threatening. Thankfully only a couple of OHKO users carry a Quick Claw, and Staraptor/Latias are immune to Fissure. But be aware of them. Rhydon is obviously notorious but I've actually not had difficulty with it yet; the most troublesome one as far as I'm concerned is the dreaded Walrein3, with Fissure and Sheer Cold. Make taking this thing down a priority because Lax Incense will ruin your day.
My four most notable/significant losses are detailed below.
First loss - 57 wins
An early loss, using Staraptor/Tauros and partnered with Riley who brought Rhyperior4 and Salamence3.
The first turn saw Staraptor and Rhyperior up against Mamoswine and Rhyperior. Not totally sure what Rhyperior would do, I used Close Combat on Mamoswine; it set up Hail. The foe's Rhyperior used Horn Drill and missed; Riley's Rhyperior KOed Mamoswine with Hammer Arm. Froslass came out second; now we're both locked into Fighting-type moves. I struck Rhyperior with Close Combat for unimpressive damage, and Froslass promptly got off an accurate Blizzard for a double KO.
Tauros and Salamence were sent out. Tauros used Rock Slide, hitting both foes - Froslass did not flinch and used Blizzard again, OHKOing Salamence. Rhyperior flinched but Earthquake, which finished Froslass off the following turn, did not KO it and it used Payback for the KO.
Didn't play that one so brilliantly. Might have been better to U-Turn out and get a double Intimidate, but I might have died to Horn Drill anyway.
Loss at 67
Using Staraptor and Tauros, partnered with Mira who brought Alakazam1 and Gengar4.
We open with Staraptor and Alakazam up against Golem/Weavile. Staraptor used U-Turn to pivot out and get a double Intimidate; I knew that this Weavile was Weavile3, so it'd survive the hit, but at -2 it's much less threatening and Tauros can easily finish it with Rock Slide. The double Attack drop allowed Alakazam to survive Night Slash but it uselessly used Calm Mind instead of attacking - Golem then bizarrely used Earthquake, which finished Alakazam but also helpfully finished off Weavile.
Tyranitar was sent out to replace it, and Mira sent out Gengar. Tauros used Earthquake, bringing both foes to 50% - Gengar used Shadow Ball, and just missed the KO on Golem. Tyranitar promptly finished Gengar off with Crunch while Golem used Fire Punch on Tauros for minimal damage. Next turn, Tauros got the KO on Golem with Earthquake but fell short on KOing Tyranitar, and died to Life Orb damage.
Bastiodon came out to replace Golem. Just Staraptor left, but at full health. I checked: it's Bastiodon3 which is a set Staraptor can beat. I finish Tyranitar with Close Combat - Bastiodon starts Double Teaming aaaaaaand wouldn't you know it, none of my Close Combats hit. I eventually run out of PP and Struggle to death while it keeps boosting evasion and defence, refusing to just get it over with and kill me with Iron Head.
Could have had a better partner there, but Alakazam works well with Staraptor no matter what set it's running and Gengar has good synergy with Tauros. Low damage rolls and accuracy got me, I think I played it fairly well. Should maybe have stayed in and used Close Combat on Weavile but then Night Slash would have been an OHKO on Alakazam for sure. I didn't anticipate Golem using Earthquake: Thunderpunch on Staraptor would have been the expected move.
Loss at 75
Using Staraptor and Tauros, partnered with Mira who brought Heatran1 and Latias1. Not as bad a pick as it looks from her there: Heatran1 is far, far better than it looks and with Intimidate/Shuca Berry fears Earthquake very little. Latias1 isn't very good, though.
The battle started with Staraptor and Heatran up against Snorlax and Regigigas. Staraptor used Close Combat on Snorlax and Heatran used Flash Cannon on Regigigas. Regigigas paralysed Staraptor with Thunder Wave and Snorlax used Earthquake, getting a critical hit and OHKOing through the Shuca Berry. It then conveniently died due to Life Orb recoil.
Kangaskhan came out in place of Snorlax. Mira sent out Latias who helpfully finished off Regigigas with Psychic, but Kangaskhan got lucky and hit Latias with Outrage, OHKOing.
All is not lost. If I manage to Close Combat Kangaskhan, I can still win. So, of course, I don't. Staraptor is fully paralysed so fails to attack, and next turn the Raikou that comes out to replace Regigigas predictably OHKOs with Thunderbolt. Next turn, it outsped Tauros and did 75% with Thunderbolt, while Tauros' Earthquake failed to KO either foe. Kangaskhan then used Outrage and got the kill on Tauros.
What a letdown. Honestly think my loss was solely down to bad AI play here; If Heatran had used Heat Wave we'd have KOed Snorlax and had a much better chance of winning. I guess Snorlax probably had Thick Fat which discouraged it. Maybe that's just me trying not to blame myself. If I'd switched when Kanga came out it may not have OHKOed Latias with Outrage, but I still likely wouldn't have won.
Loss at 83
Using Staraptor and Tauros, partnered with Riley who brought Gyarados2 and Salamence3.
Things kick off with Staraptor and Gyarados up against Slaking and Donphan. I decided the best play would be to pivot out with U-Turn to further cripple their Attack; Gyarados should go for Waterfall against Donphan. This was an error, as Gyarados used Earthquake instead. Donphan used Stone Edge - not getting a critical hit - while Slaking used Hammer Arm on Tauros.
Next turn, Donphan got a Quick Claw activation and finished Tauros, while Gyarados used Dragon Dance and Slaking lazed around. Staraptor came out and Donphan got another Quick Claw activation, using Stone Edge on Gyarados who used Earthquake again without KOing either foe; Staraptor took down Donphan with Brave Bird while Slaking finished Gyarados with Giga Impact.
By this point, I was pretty sure we were done. Riley sent out Salamence, Milotic came out on the other side. I used Brave Bird on Milotic desperately hoped for a crit, but no joy. Salamence's Draco Meteor missed Slaking while it lazed, and Milotic OHKOed Salamence with Ice Beam.
I got the kill on Milotic next turn while Slaking stupidly used Hammer Arm on me, then finished that too. That left me on 3 HP, so even if the final Pokemon was one I could OHKO I die to recoil, thus I lose by default. As it happened it was Magnezone so that was never going to happen anyway.
This one was a pretty even mix of AI stupidity and my own stupidity. If Salamence had refrained from targeting Slaking on its inactive turn we could have taken Milotic down and been 2v1 for the rest of the match. But overall the loss is on me, I should have stayed in on turn one and attacked Donphan instead of switching. Tauros wasn't that much better placed to fight Donphan anyway.
First loss - 57 wins
An early loss, using Staraptor/Tauros and partnered with Riley who brought Rhyperior4 and Salamence3.
The first turn saw Staraptor and Rhyperior up against Mamoswine and Rhyperior. Not totally sure what Rhyperior would do, I used Close Combat on Mamoswine; it set up Hail. The foe's Rhyperior used Horn Drill and missed; Riley's Rhyperior KOed Mamoswine with Hammer Arm. Froslass came out second; now we're both locked into Fighting-type moves. I struck Rhyperior with Close Combat for unimpressive damage, and Froslass promptly got off an accurate Blizzard for a double KO.
Tauros and Salamence were sent out. Tauros used Rock Slide, hitting both foes - Froslass did not flinch and used Blizzard again, OHKOing Salamence. Rhyperior flinched but Earthquake, which finished Froslass off the following turn, did not KO it and it used Payback for the KO.
Didn't play that one so brilliantly. Might have been better to U-Turn out and get a double Intimidate, but I might have died to Horn Drill anyway.
Loss at 67
Using Staraptor and Tauros, partnered with Mira who brought Alakazam1 and Gengar4.
We open with Staraptor and Alakazam up against Golem/Weavile. Staraptor used U-Turn to pivot out and get a double Intimidate; I knew that this Weavile was Weavile3, so it'd survive the hit, but at -2 it's much less threatening and Tauros can easily finish it with Rock Slide. The double Attack drop allowed Alakazam to survive Night Slash but it uselessly used Calm Mind instead of attacking - Golem then bizarrely used Earthquake, which finished Alakazam but also helpfully finished off Weavile.
Tyranitar was sent out to replace it, and Mira sent out Gengar. Tauros used Earthquake, bringing both foes to 50% - Gengar used Shadow Ball, and just missed the KO on Golem. Tyranitar promptly finished Gengar off with Crunch while Golem used Fire Punch on Tauros for minimal damage. Next turn, Tauros got the KO on Golem with Earthquake but fell short on KOing Tyranitar, and died to Life Orb damage.
Bastiodon came out to replace Golem. Just Staraptor left, but at full health. I checked: it's Bastiodon3 which is a set Staraptor can beat. I finish Tyranitar with Close Combat - Bastiodon starts Double Teaming aaaaaaand wouldn't you know it, none of my Close Combats hit. I eventually run out of PP and Struggle to death while it keeps boosting evasion and defence, refusing to just get it over with and kill me with Iron Head.
Could have had a better partner there, but Alakazam works well with Staraptor no matter what set it's running and Gengar has good synergy with Tauros. Low damage rolls and accuracy got me, I think I played it fairly well. Should maybe have stayed in and used Close Combat on Weavile but then Night Slash would have been an OHKO on Alakazam for sure. I didn't anticipate Golem using Earthquake: Thunderpunch on Staraptor would have been the expected move.
Loss at 75
Using Staraptor and Tauros, partnered with Mira who brought Heatran1 and Latias1. Not as bad a pick as it looks from her there: Heatran1 is far, far better than it looks and with Intimidate/Shuca Berry fears Earthquake very little. Latias1 isn't very good, though.
The battle started with Staraptor and Heatran up against Snorlax and Regigigas. Staraptor used Close Combat on Snorlax and Heatran used Flash Cannon on Regigigas. Regigigas paralysed Staraptor with Thunder Wave and Snorlax used Earthquake, getting a critical hit and OHKOing through the Shuca Berry. It then conveniently died due to Life Orb recoil.
Kangaskhan came out in place of Snorlax. Mira sent out Latias who helpfully finished off Regigigas with Psychic, but Kangaskhan got lucky and hit Latias with Outrage, OHKOing.
All is not lost. If I manage to Close Combat Kangaskhan, I can still win. So, of course, I don't. Staraptor is fully paralysed so fails to attack, and next turn the Raikou that comes out to replace Regigigas predictably OHKOs with Thunderbolt. Next turn, it outsped Tauros and did 75% with Thunderbolt, while Tauros' Earthquake failed to KO either foe. Kangaskhan then used Outrage and got the kill on Tauros.
What a letdown. Honestly think my loss was solely down to bad AI play here; If Heatran had used Heat Wave we'd have KOed Snorlax and had a much better chance of winning. I guess Snorlax probably had Thick Fat which discouraged it. Maybe that's just me trying not to blame myself. If I'd switched when Kanga came out it may not have OHKOed Latias with Outrage, but I still likely wouldn't have won.
Loss at 83
Using Staraptor and Tauros, partnered with Riley who brought Gyarados2 and Salamence3.
Things kick off with Staraptor and Gyarados up against Slaking and Donphan. I decided the best play would be to pivot out with U-Turn to further cripple their Attack; Gyarados should go for Waterfall against Donphan. This was an error, as Gyarados used Earthquake instead. Donphan used Stone Edge - not getting a critical hit - while Slaking used Hammer Arm on Tauros.
Next turn, Donphan got a Quick Claw activation and finished Tauros, while Gyarados used Dragon Dance and Slaking lazed around. Staraptor came out and Donphan got another Quick Claw activation, using Stone Edge on Gyarados who used Earthquake again without KOing either foe; Staraptor took down Donphan with Brave Bird while Slaking finished Gyarados with Giga Impact.
By this point, I was pretty sure we were done. Riley sent out Salamence, Milotic came out on the other side. I used Brave Bird on Milotic desperately hoped for a crit, but no joy. Salamence's Draco Meteor missed Slaking while it lazed, and Milotic OHKOed Salamence with Ice Beam.
I got the kill on Milotic next turn while Slaking stupidly used Hammer Arm on me, then finished that too. That left me on 3 HP, so even if the final Pokemon was one I could OHKO I die to recoil, thus I lose by default. As it happened it was Magnezone so that was never going to happen anyway.
This one was a pretty even mix of AI stupidity and my own stupidity. If Salamence had refrained from targeting Slaking on its inactive turn we could have taken Milotic down and been 2v1 for the rest of the match. But overall the loss is on me, I should have stayed in on turn one and attacked Donphan instead of switching. Tauros wasn't that much better placed to fight Donphan anyway.
Getting as far as I did with NPC partners, and spending so much thought on what pairs well, made me tempted enough to do a token run with a human partner (me, with two DS systems). I partnered my SoulSilver file with my Pearl file, appreciating the nostalgic and slightly rustic vibes of DP's Battle Tower and the demonstrably lower quality of Pearl's pool of foes.
With the ability to select all four team members, I figured I could make an absolutely dominating roster. Staraptor was kept as the lead for the SoulSilver team, and got to thinking about what might work well as a partner. Inspired by one of Mira's frequent picks, I rummaged in my PC and drafted in something I hadn't yet tried: Roserade.
@ White Herb (Natural Cure)
Leaf Storm
Sludge Bomb
Shadow Ball
Extrasensory
4 HP, 252 Sp.Atk/Speed (Timid)
Whenever Mira led with Roserade3 or 4 I would often choose her for that alone, because - Ice weakness aside - it pairs excellently with Staraptor. Leaf Storm utterly destroys so many of the bulky Rocks, Grounds, and Waters that Staraptor can't quite OHKO, and deals especially well with things like Lapras and Walrein.
As I said, Poison Point is probably the more useful ability in the Tower but I was just using the one I bred years ago, which had Natural Cure. It might have been worth rebreeding since Hidden Power Ice has some good utility on this moveset, though it's not an OHKO on most Dragons.
The thing about Roserade is that... well, it's mostly only good for Leaf Storm. Its other attacks can usually only hope to 2HKO, so it often comes down to blasting something alongside your partner. Brave Bird+Sludge Bomb brings down Dragonite, for instance. But this of course means you have to ignore the other Pokemon.
So Roserade became the lead on my Pearl file. Latias is probably a better choice, but I was mostly doing this run for my own amusement.
Soul Salton
So that's that. Worked pretty well: my first run got to 56 wins exactly; battle 57 was lost to a stupid misplay I can't fully remember right now. Underwhelmed, I began a second run, but had a communication error at battle 31 and didn't have the motivation to try again. I'm really not that interested in putting much time into human/human Tower runs, even though I subsequently decided that subsequent attempts should have my Pearl file use CB Tauros as a lead instead.
Maybe one day, though.
With the ability to select all four team members, I figured I could make an absolutely dominating roster. Staraptor was kept as the lead for the SoulSilver team, and got to thinking about what might work well as a partner. Inspired by one of Mira's frequent picks, I rummaged in my PC and drafted in something I hadn't yet tried: Roserade.
@ White Herb (Natural Cure)Leaf Storm
Sludge Bomb
Shadow Ball
Extrasensory
4 HP, 252 Sp.Atk/Speed (Timid)
Whenever Mira led with Roserade3 or 4 I would often choose her for that alone, because - Ice weakness aside - it pairs excellently with Staraptor. Leaf Storm utterly destroys so many of the bulky Rocks, Grounds, and Waters that Staraptor can't quite OHKO, and deals especially well with things like Lapras and Walrein.
As I said, Poison Point is probably the more useful ability in the Tower but I was just using the one I bred years ago, which had Natural Cure. It might have been worth rebreeding since Hidden Power Ice has some good utility on this moveset, though it's not an OHKO on most Dragons.
The thing about Roserade is that... well, it's mostly only good for Leaf Storm. Its other attacks can usually only hope to 2HKO, so it often comes down to blasting something alongside your partner. Brave Bird+Sludge Bomb brings down Dragonite, for instance. But this of course means you have to ignore the other Pokemon.
So Roserade became the lead on my Pearl file. Latias is probably a better choice, but I was mostly doing this run for my own amusement.
Soul Salton
| @ Choice Scarf (Intimidate) Brave Bird Giga Impact Close Combat U-Turn 4 HP, 252 Attack, 76 Def, 4 Sp.Def, 172 Speed (Adamant) | @ White Herb (Natural Cure) Leaf Storm Sludge Bomb Shadow Ball Extrasensory 4 HP, 252 Sp.Atk/Speed (Timid) |
| @ Life Orb (Intimidate) Double-Edge Earthquake Rock Slide Zen Headbutt 4 HP, 252 Attack/Speed (Jolly) | @ Choice Scarf (No Guard) Dynamicpunch Stone Edge Earthquake Ice Punch 12 HP, 252 Attack, 244 Speed (Adamant) |
So that's that. Worked pretty well: my first run got to 56 wins exactly; battle 57 was lost to a stupid misplay I can't fully remember right now. Underwhelmed, I began a second run, but had a communication error at battle 31 and didn't have the motivation to try again. I'm really not that interested in putting much time into human/human Tower runs, even though I subsequently decided that subsequent attempts should have my Pearl file use CB Tauros as a lead instead.
Maybe one day, though.
So yeah! Going to try some more multi modes since there doesn't seem to be much interest in them. Factory and Castle have the most appeal.
Updated to here I believe. Let me know if I made any errors.
Nice to see some stuff in more "obscure" modes being posted here.
QuentinQuonce I decided to post your multi write-up in the main post as a guide as well, since I think the information re: team selection is really nicely written and I didn't want the guide to end up buried in the lists.
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I haven't done a whole lot since I last posted here. I managed to achieve a 150+ Hall run with Aron of all things though lol, definitely a lucky streak but Metal Burst and STAB Head Smash are pretty potent even on something so under-powered. I have all the sets I used evolved to Lairon and was intending to go for that one next but have been too busy to really start it, maybe this week I can finally do that. I feel more confident in Aggron's chances of getting 170 also.
Since we've now had yet another dominant Raikou showing in Hall, I have also thought I might give it another whirl myself just to see if I can replicate what others have seemingly done with it. I did a streak with it a while ago but with entirely different, non-Specs sets but only got into the 180s before moving on. I do think more tweaks could be made to the builds for the strategy that the longer streaks have used, all the streaks are just using the same Specs set across the 17 types and you could probably build a second set to try and counter a few things where the selected coverage falls flat. At the very least I think you could run a HP Grass set to use in types where Grass coverage is more useful/Ice coverage is unnecessary, Water being the prime example, and it would be nice to try and incorporate ExtremeSpeed somewhere (note: Shadow Ball + ExtremeSpeed would beat Gallade barring a crit and get around the Salac Berry problem although you'd have to forego Choice Specs AND probably Life Orb also for this to work, Expert Belt works though), but I haven't really explored those ideas further.
I had some other ideas for Hall Garchomp too but that is lower priority for me, nothing I can think of would actually solve the freezing problem it has in the long term so it would be mostly just swinging the odds further in my favour against other types of threats.
Nice to see some stuff in more "obscure" modes being posted here.
QuentinQuonce I decided to post your multi write-up in the main post as a guide as well, since I think the information re: team selection is really nicely written and I didn't want the guide to end up buried in the lists.
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I haven't done a whole lot since I last posted here. I managed to achieve a 150+ Hall run with Aron of all things though lol, definitely a lucky streak but Metal Burst and STAB Head Smash are pretty potent even on something so under-powered. I have all the sets I used evolved to Lairon and was intending to go for that one next but have been too busy to really start it, maybe this week I can finally do that. I feel more confident in Aggron's chances of getting 170 also.
Since we've now had yet another dominant Raikou showing in Hall, I have also thought I might give it another whirl myself just to see if I can replicate what others have seemingly done with it. I did a streak with it a while ago but with entirely different, non-Specs sets but only got into the 180s before moving on. I do think more tweaks could be made to the builds for the strategy that the longer streaks have used, all the streaks are just using the same Specs set across the 17 types and you could probably build a second set to try and counter a few things where the selected coverage falls flat. At the very least I think you could run a HP Grass set to use in types where Grass coverage is more useful/Ice coverage is unnecessary, Water being the prime example, and it would be nice to try and incorporate ExtremeSpeed somewhere (note: Shadow Ball + ExtremeSpeed would beat Gallade barring a crit and get around the Salac Berry problem although you'd have to forego Choice Specs AND probably Life Orb also for this to work, Expert Belt works though), but I haven't really explored those ideas further.
I had some other ideas for Hall Garchomp too but that is lower priority for me, nothing I can think of would actually solve the freezing problem it has in the long term so it would be mostly just swinging the odds further in my favour against other types of threats.
[On Emulator]
Completed a mono-type challenge for Battle Tower Gold.
Water-Only Squad:
Fennel (Gyarados) - Adamant: Max Attack + Speed, Lum Berry
Waterfall
Earthquake
Ice Fang
Dragon Dance
Puddles (Swampert) - Jolly: Max Attack + Speed, Choice Scarf
Waterfall
Earthquake
Ice Punch
Stone Edge
Mango (Starmie) - Modest: Max Special Attack + Speed, Life Orb
Surf
Psychic
Ice Beam
Thunderbolt
Simple game plan: Fennel dragon dances and sweeps, unless the first opposing pokemon is electric. Then Puddles immediately switches in to eat a thunderbolt or something and respond with Earthquake. Stone Edge is there for any Shedinja's or Zapdos. Puddles with Jolly and Choice Scarf outruns some of the Sceptile sets, which actually came up in rounds 5 and 6. Mango as the classic SPIT Starmie is just a great pokemon in general. Modest + Life Orb on Starmie for that extra power and ability to leverage its top-tier coverage.
Completed a mono-type challenge for Battle Tower Gold.
Water-Only Squad:
Fennel (Gyarados) - Adamant: Max Attack + Speed, Lum Berry
Waterfall
Earthquake
Ice Fang
Dragon Dance
Puddles (Swampert) - Jolly: Max Attack + Speed, Choice Scarf
Waterfall
Earthquake
Ice Punch
Stone Edge
Mango (Starmie) - Modest: Max Special Attack + Speed, Life Orb
Surf
Psychic
Ice Beam
Thunderbolt
Simple game plan: Fennel dragon dances and sweeps, unless the first opposing pokemon is electric. Then Puddles immediately switches in to eat a thunderbolt or something and respond with Earthquake. Stone Edge is there for any Shedinja's or Zapdos. Puddles with Jolly and Choice Scarf outruns some of the Sceptile sets, which actually came up in rounds 5 and 6. Mango as the classic SPIT Starmie is just a great pokemon in general. Modest + Life Orb on Starmie for that extra power and ability to leverage its top-tier coverage.
Attachments
Heylong time lurker first time poster. I managed to get a win streak of 213 in the Heartgold Battle Hall.
I used a tried and true classic, Garchomp
Garchomp
Jolly nature
Earthquake/Outrage/Stone Edge/Fire Fang
4 Hp/252 Atk/252/Spe
Focus Sash
I originally was just trying to mindlessly farm BP between classes, and it kinda snowballed from there.
My strategy was to try to knock out Garchomp’s weaknesses early, so I’d tackle Ice, Dragon, Flying, Dark, and Ground first. Weavile was the one Pokémon in particular that I was worried about, and so of course I ran into one almost every time I went for Ice and Dark.
My death came in the form of a Tanky Lickilicky. I used outrage, he used ice punch which triggered my sash, the next outrage brought him down to about 1/4 hp and he ice punched me again for the knockout.
It’s my first real streak so I’m pretty proud of my success. I give this thread a lot of credit for keeping my interest in the 4th gen battle frontier alive a decade after I started playing Heartgold.
Apologies if I broke any rules with this post, I don’t post anything normally and made this account specifically to share my good fortune.
I used a tried and true classic, Garchomp
Garchomp
Jolly nature
Earthquake/Outrage/Stone Edge/Fire Fang
4 Hp/252 Atk/252/Spe
Focus Sash
I originally was just trying to mindlessly farm BP between classes, and it kinda snowballed from there.
My strategy was to try to knock out Garchomp’s weaknesses early, so I’d tackle Ice, Dragon, Flying, Dark, and Ground first. Weavile was the one Pokémon in particular that I was worried about, and so of course I ran into one almost every time I went for Ice and Dark.
My death came in the form of a Tanky Lickilicky. I used outrage, he used ice punch which triggered my sash, the next outrage brought him down to about 1/4 hp and he ice punched me again for the knockout.
It’s my first real streak so I’m pretty proud of my success. I give this thread a lot of credit for keeping my interest in the 4th gen battle frontier alive a decade after I started playing Heartgold.
Apologies if I broke any rules with this post, I don’t post anything normally and made this account specifically to share my good fortune.
Attachments
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
Witnessed an amusing sight in Gen IV's Battle Factory just now: an opposing Drifblim used Trick... not on me, but on its partner Scizor instead, to give itself a Sitrus Berry and its partner a Black Sludge! At first I thought "ah yeah, it's because Steel-types aren't affected by Black Sludge" but no; they are, as is everything that isn't Poison-type or has a compensatory ability like Magic Guard. Curious.
Idk why it didn't use Trick against one of my team members instead. The opponent AI apparently avoids using Trick against foes with a Choice item or an item with hindering effects, like a Black Sludge or Sticky Barb, but neither of mine had any such item; one had a Focus Sash and the other a Light Clay.
However it's worth pointing out that this happened in round 2, so I suppose this one can be chalked up to the randomness of the AI - presumably the randomness affects who they target, and it could have targeted any one of the other three Pokemon.
Idk why it didn't use Trick against one of my team members instead. The opponent AI apparently avoids using Trick against foes with a Choice item or an item with hindering effects, like a Black Sludge or Sticky Barb, but neither of mine had any such item; one had a Focus Sash and the other a Light Clay.
However it's worth pointing out that this happened in round 2, so I suppose this one can be chalked up to the randomness of the AI - presumably the randomness affects who they target, and it could have targeted any one of the other three Pokemon.
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
After my Tower multi escapade, I decided that my next mission was to claim the top spot on Factory Multi. There’s already a couple of records for this but not much actually written about the mechanics of it so this is another post where I go into overly-needless detail. Strap in!
Introduction
Take Battle Factory (widely agreed upon as among the most frustrating challenges the games have to offer) and multi (widely agreed upon as one of the most challenging ways to play) and you have a recipe for blood-boilingly nasty challenge. If you’re reading this, I can only presume it’s because you’re not actually interested in trying it yourself and simply want to read about how I ended up clawing my face until it resembled beef carpaccio.
Because I have sunk several weeks into this mode and am ready to say now that Factory Multi has utterly broken me. Go and read the records for Factory Doubles and you will find several people out there saying that it’s the worst mode. I am here to tell you that they are all wrong: Factory Multi is the worst mode and it’s not even close.
There is so much to think about here - it’s double the headplay of the usual shit the Factory throws at you, or maybe even quadruple. My best record on Open Level was 27 wins though very few of my streaks were saved by the game itself due to me turning my DS off in sheer frustration multiple times. I also had two runs ruined by a connection fault: the DS’s native local connection is very reliable for the most part, but occasionally it randomly gets spotty with no warning or explanation (and most importantly, no regard to how close your DS systems physically are). Seems like if you use it for protracted periods it goes on the blink, so I’ve learned not to chain long rounds. Though it might be that my DS is just old.
Almost makes one long for the days of link cables, doesn't it.
Mechanics
As with every multi mode, two players partner to take on the challenge – not that you’d want one, but there is no NPC to partner with here. At the start of each round, the attendant will offer each trainer a selection of six Pokemon for rental. Each trainer’s draft is different: species clause appears to be in operation (I’ve never seen a Pokemon appear in both drafts at once) but item clause is not, so each player can be presented with and choose Pokemon with the same items, such as Granbull1 and Skuntank1 which both hold Razor Claw.
Also - unlike Gen III - I’ve never encountered a double species in an individual pool; in Gen III's Factory you could sometimes get two different versions of the same species in your draft if one of your elevations happened to be the same species as one in your normal draft. Gen IV's iteration appears to be a lot stricter, as it also forbids any Pokemon with the same item as you from showing up on an enemy's team.
You face two NPCs using two Pokemon each and after each battle you are permitted to swap one of your team members. You can swap for any of the four Pokemon you faced, but only one player is permitted to make a swap – even if you both select the same Pokemon and click “exchange” at the same time, only one exchange will be made.
Note that even though only one player gets to trade, the count is separate for you both. The effect of this is that it takes longer to max out your swaps if both partners are swapping with a more or less even frequency, and thus it will take much longer for you both to access elevations. Presumably, this is done to counteract non-joined-up streaks (i.e. to prevent you partnering with a partner with a streak of 42 and accessing the top sets right away) but it’s a frustrating choice nevertheless because it punishes you slightly for good luck. If player A gets two great Pokemon in their draft and doesn’t need to swap all round, while player B gets a bad draft and so makes six swaps, player A suffers in the long run for their initial luck. It adds an additional complication to swapping since, unless the thresholds for elevations are different in multi (and nothing I’ve seen indicates that they are) you’ve got a much greater incentive to swap after every battle, which typically isn't good practice unless you're swapping simply to get a type advantage over the next trainer.
Opponent scouting
The information the attendant gives to you prior to battling is similar to what you get in singles or doubles, though not quite the same:
However, with a database of enemy sets (which you should have; Glen’s Open Level Guide and HeadsIWin’s level 50 guide are both excellent, but a spreadsheet can often make searching easier) you can narrow down the sets that fit her information. Let’s use Night Slash as an example: the only Pokemon with Night Slash as their first move are Absol3, Absol4, Honchkrow1, Honchkrow4, and all variants of Weavile. Sometimes the round is what’s pertinent here – Honchkrow1 and Weavile1 have Night Slash as their first move, so if you’re in round 1 it could be either of them. Conversely, if you’re in round 2 it can only be Weavile.
If the round alone isn’t enough, however, you can also look at your team’s items to try and narrow that down further, since the Frontier takes item clause into effect and no Pokemon you face will have one of the items you hold. If we were in round 1, if one of your team has a Chople Berry it can’t be Weavile thus is definitely Honchkrow. If you’re in a later round where any of the sets can appear it’s trickier but still possible: if one of your pokemon has a choice band, you know it can’t be Absol4, and if one of your other Pokemon has a Razor Claw you know it isn’t Absol3, thus you can say for certain it isn’t Absol at all.
Of course it doesn’t guarantee a win to know this but even if you can’t solidly identify the upcoming foe even knowing their lead move can be useful; if you have a Gyarados on your team and you’re told that one of the leads has Thunderbolt then you have a reasonable case to make a trade in most cases unless there’s an extenuating reason not to (a partner with Lightningrod for instance).
Take Battle Factory (widely agreed upon as among the most frustrating challenges the games have to offer) and multi (widely agreed upon as one of the most challenging ways to play) and you have a recipe for blood-boilingly nasty challenge. If you’re reading this, I can only presume it’s because you’re not actually interested in trying it yourself and simply want to read about how I ended up clawing my face until it resembled beef carpaccio.
Because I have sunk several weeks into this mode and am ready to say now that Factory Multi has utterly broken me. Go and read the records for Factory Doubles and you will find several people out there saying that it’s the worst mode. I am here to tell you that they are all wrong: Factory Multi is the worst mode and it’s not even close.
There is so much to think about here - it’s double the headplay of the usual shit the Factory throws at you, or maybe even quadruple. My best record on Open Level was 27 wins though very few of my streaks were saved by the game itself due to me turning my DS off in sheer frustration multiple times. I also had two runs ruined by a connection fault: the DS’s native local connection is very reliable for the most part, but occasionally it randomly gets spotty with no warning or explanation (and most importantly, no regard to how close your DS systems physically are). Seems like if you use it for protracted periods it goes on the blink, so I’ve learned not to chain long rounds. Though it might be that my DS is just old.
Almost makes one long for the days of link cables, doesn't it.
Mechanics
As with every multi mode, two players partner to take on the challenge – not that you’d want one, but there is no NPC to partner with here. At the start of each round, the attendant will offer each trainer a selection of six Pokemon for rental. Each trainer’s draft is different: species clause appears to be in operation (I’ve never seen a Pokemon appear in both drafts at once) but item clause is not, so each player can be presented with and choose Pokemon with the same items, such as Granbull1 and Skuntank1 which both hold Razor Claw.
Also - unlike Gen III - I’ve never encountered a double species in an individual pool; in Gen III's Factory you could sometimes get two different versions of the same species in your draft if one of your elevations happened to be the same species as one in your normal draft. Gen IV's iteration appears to be a lot stricter, as it also forbids any Pokemon with the same item as you from showing up on an enemy's team.
You face two NPCs using two Pokemon each and after each battle you are permitted to swap one of your team members. You can swap for any of the four Pokemon you faced, but only one player is permitted to make a swap – even if you both select the same Pokemon and click “exchange” at the same time, only one exchange will be made.
Note that even though only one player gets to trade, the count is separate for you both. The effect of this is that it takes longer to max out your swaps if both partners are swapping with a more or less even frequency, and thus it will take much longer for you both to access elevations. Presumably, this is done to counteract non-joined-up streaks (i.e. to prevent you partnering with a partner with a streak of 42 and accessing the top sets right away) but it’s a frustrating choice nevertheless because it punishes you slightly for good luck. If player A gets two great Pokemon in their draft and doesn’t need to swap all round, while player B gets a bad draft and so makes six swaps, player A suffers in the long run for their initial luck. It adds an additional complication to swapping since, unless the thresholds for elevations are different in multi (and nothing I’ve seen indicates that they are) you’ve got a much greater incentive to swap after every battle, which typically isn't good practice unless you're swapping simply to get a type advantage over the next trainer.
Opponent scouting
The information the attendant gives to you prior to battling is similar to what you get in singles or doubles, though not quite the same:
- in the first round, she will tell you all four Pokemon you’ll see, with Pokemon one and three being the leads
- in the second round, she will tell you what both leads will be
- in the third round, she tells you the first move each of the leads will have without naming the Pokemon
- in the fourth round, she tells you the lead Pokemon on the right’s lead move without naming the Pokemon
- in the fifth round and all subsequent, she simply tells you if the upcoming opponent's team has a most common type
However, with a database of enemy sets (which you should have; Glen’s Open Level Guide and HeadsIWin’s level 50 guide are both excellent, but a spreadsheet can often make searching easier) you can narrow down the sets that fit her information. Let’s use Night Slash as an example: the only Pokemon with Night Slash as their first move are Absol3, Absol4, Honchkrow1, Honchkrow4, and all variants of Weavile. Sometimes the round is what’s pertinent here – Honchkrow1 and Weavile1 have Night Slash as their first move, so if you’re in round 1 it could be either of them. Conversely, if you’re in round 2 it can only be Weavile.
If the round alone isn’t enough, however, you can also look at your team’s items to try and narrow that down further, since the Frontier takes item clause into effect and no Pokemon you face will have one of the items you hold. If we were in round 1, if one of your team has a Chople Berry it can’t be Weavile thus is definitely Honchkrow. If you’re in a later round where any of the sets can appear it’s trickier but still possible: if one of your pokemon has a choice band, you know it can’t be Absol4, and if one of your other Pokemon has a Razor Claw you know it isn’t Absol3, thus you can say for certain it isn’t Absol at all.
Of course it doesn’t guarantee a win to know this but even if you can’t solidly identify the upcoming foe even knowing their lead move can be useful; if you have a Gyarados on your team and you’re told that one of the leads has Thunderbolt then you have a reasonable case to make a trade in most cases unless there’s an extenuating reason not to (a partner with Lightningrod for instance).
I played with two DS systems, using a copy of SoulSilver and a copy of Platinum.
Notes on choosing and opponent AI
In singles mode (and I believe in doubles too), the AI in early rounds appears to be randomised. That is not the case in multi, which makes the usual tactic of sweeping with ease in round 1 incredibly difficult to pull off. This is something that is far more apparent in level 50, and makes the initial round in that format extremely difficult. Stuff will exploit your weaknesses for the kill; when I had Croagunk in front of Baltoy I was like “oh well, might not mean instant death” but no – it reliably used Psybeam. This actually weirdly makes Open Level easier from the start, because your draft will have stronger and better movesets and evolved Pokemon often have type combinations their pre-evolutions don't, meaning that you can teambuild much more effectively.
Obvious statement is obvious, but your initial progress will mostly be dependent on the luck of your draws: two bad drafts at once can be brutal, but if you manage to find a combination that works well you can pull through.
The most frustrating thing about getting two sets of drafts is how difficult it can be to teambuild. In Tower multi, for instance, you can bring an Earthquake user and seek out a Flying-type partner. Here, there are no guarantees; at best you can attempt to make simple combinations like Earthquake+Levitate, but even then you're at the mercy of bad sets. I had a Lightningrod Rhyperior in my draft once which could have been great to pair with a Water- or Flying-type but it was Rhyperior3, which sucks. Instead, you usually have to go with two Pokemon that can sweep competently enough and pair decently well. I chose Steelix in round 1 expecting it to suck and it was the mvp of its round; pairs brilliantly with loads of stuff because it’s bulky and can hold its own against a lot of foes. Dusknoir, too, was a great performer in round 1.
Early on, it's basically always in your interest to swap unless your team is ridiculously solid. In the Steelix run I mentioned, I had Quagsire as a backup and never ended up sending it out so it would have been worth swapping just to increment the counter and/or give a little extra insurance for what you’re about to face. If you get two incredibly good leads that can reliably sweep and only rarely require your backups then you're in a good position.
Open Level
Originally I figured that, unlike in singles where a serious streak is much easier if attempted in level 50, it might be better to attempt a serious record in Open Level. Writeups of my two main Open Level threads are below.
Osric Soul
First try:
Round 1
Initial selections: Steelix1/Quagsire1 (Osric), Toxicroak1/Torterra1 (Soul)
Round 1 isn’t the worst, but I still had a few false starts here - largely from picking frailer sweepers like Alakazam before I realised that the AI wasn't going to allow me to coast. As mentioned, Steelix was the crutch mon for this round when I eventually got one in my Platinum draft. I kept that and played around it – special pokemon were good partners, as was anything that floated, but I traded for Ambipom after the fourth battle and it was weirdly effective - was mainly sick of everything outspeeding me. I traded Torterra for Dusknoir after battle three and it was an absolute crutch when it saw use.
Didn't swap with Osric at all this round.
Round 2
Initial selections: Porygon22/Manectric2 (Osric), Meganium2/Gyarados2
Got Meganium in the draft, and was surprised to find it absolutely dominant in the first few battles - could set up on so much and just sponge HP right off them. I partnered it with Porygon2, which was serviceable until I had to swap it to avoid a Machamp lead. But with Gyarados in the backup slot behind Meganium, I needn't have feared: it was a crutch mon and I won a lot of close battles using it.
This was actually a somewhat enjoyable round, and happily let me rack up the swaps with Osric this time.
Round 3
Initial selections: Espeon3/Ludicolo3 (Osric), Victreebel3/Aerodactyl3 (Soul)
Was told that the leads had Hydro Pump and Megahorn which was a hard combination to choose from, since Megahorn hits Grass and Psychic hard. None of the elevations were any good but I happily got Espeon3 with Grass Knot; the other game had Victreebel3 so I took that as the other lead even though it’s crap because I wanted Power Herb Solarbeam (but intended to trade it at the first opportunity straight away). As it happened the first battle had us up against Vaporeon and Heracross which entirely workable: Espeon obliterated Heracross but Victreebel died instantly, as expected, since Solarbeam didn’t quite OHKO Vaporeon and it hit back with Ice Beam.
Figured Hera would make the best partner to swap for, Espeon is great but needs Fighting/Bug support. From there on, my swaps for leads were pretty much predicated on one of the leads having a move I disliked the sound of and thinking what resists it. Going as balanced as possible seemed the best way to go - Espeon/Heracross and Ludicolo/Aerodactyl felt pretty solid so I had to really agonise about trading but I traded Heracross after the fourth battle because one of the leads had Flare Blitz. I’d just fought a team containing Donphan and Hippowdon so felt pretty secure going for a bulky ground. Donphan was traded for and remained my secondary lead for two battles, before I made the swap to Electivire for the final battle.
Overall this round wasn't as difficult as it could have been.
Round 4
Initial selection: Tauros4/Arcanine4 (Osric), Quagsire4/Magnezone4 (Soul)
Had a bloody awful opening draft here. Was told that the lead Pokemon has Earthquake and then none of my drafts are Flying and a bunch are Ground-weak.. Got CB Tauros (with Anger Point, depressingly); went with that and Quagsire as leads with Arcanine and Magnezone as backups (I know, but best of a bad bunch). Quagsire was fine and we pulled through the first match with little difficulty.
Ironically I died right after swapping Quagsire for Gengar, thinking that Tauros and Gengar would make an utterly amazing duo: sadly, they proved too weak to sweep and got wiped out. Well, so much for that idea.
Second try:
Round 1
Initial selections: Lucario1/Gastrodon1, (Osric) Ambipom1/Blissey1
Got an abysmal draft (sensing a theme here...) but wound up choosing Technician Ambipom and Lucario for leads which swept pretty decently. There's precious little to say about this round: choosing two fast, capable sweepers for leads and two backups with a bit of staying power was a strategy that worked out fairly well.
Round 2
Initial selections: Espeon2/Nidoqueen2 (Osric), Tyranitar2/Blaziken2 (Soul)
Got a shiny Blastoise! Unfortunately that was the high point of an otherwise thoroughly unexceptional round. Traded Espeon for Rhydon after a couple battles and then had a mini brainwave after battle five and traded Tyranitar for Flareon: turns out Endure/Flail actually works when your partner is an Earthquake user because you can reliably trigger it. Just be aware of priority/Quick Claw...
Round 3
Initial selections: Staraptor3/Alakazam3 (Osric), Feraligatr3/Gyarados3 (Soul)
Oh man. Had a really good draft here. Feraligatr3+Staraptor3 as leads with Gyarados and Alakazam in back? Truly superb. Well, not totally - Feraligatr was good but not excellent so I swapped it for Quick Feet Ursaring3, which pulled its weight and then some. This actually felt like a round where I could enjoy myself.
And then the final battle nearly ended in disaster. Opponent led with Claydol and Marowak: I killed Claydol instantly with Staraptor, protected with Ursaring to trigger Toxic Orb as Marowak tried and failed to use Earthquake. Crobat came out in Claydol's place; Staraptor killed that, but unfortunately Ursaring's Facade failed to KO Marowak and it died to Earthquake.
So it was Gyara and Staraptor up against a weakened Marowak. Well, that's hardly a difficult matchup; I decided to switch to Alakazam while Staraptor took care of Marowak just so that if the final mon was physical I could get another Intimidate on it. Staraptor got the kill as expected, but then the final mon... was Electrode. It predictably destroyed Gyarados; Alakazam got a critical hit with Psychic, which Electrode survived due to holding a Focus Sash.
Stupid, stupid me. It can only 2HKO Alakazam anyway (unless it exploded), but if it had gotten the crit with signal beam I’d have lost. Should have stayed in, really. Both Staraptor and Gyarados had a shot of OHKOing it but either way it was a dangerous matchup.
Round 4
Initial selections: Electivire4/Ambipom4 (Osric), Garchomp4/Moltres1 (Soul)
Got legendaries for the first time, though not good ones. Since I had a decent Garchomp I decided to pair it with ShucaVire; the rest of the draft was subpar so I went with Ambipom and Moltres for backups. Obviously didn’t much want to be Earthquaking myself but I figured it was a bit of insurance if I ever absolutely had to - annoyingly Moltres was in the same draft as Garchomp, or they might have been a very potent lead combination.
Lost at battle 26 to a Floatzel and Claydol of all things, which both used Ice Beam on Garchomp (Floatzel's did enough to kill, though): Electivire revenge killed Floatzel but then got frozen by Claydol's redirected Ice Beam. Moltres' Air Slash barely hopes to 4HKO Claydol, but Ludicolo3 was the backup for Floatzel and it swept me, hitting Focus Blast on Ambipom and then Hydro Pump on Moltres. I was so pissed off by this I turned my game off. So no photo proof, oops.
Notes on choosing and opponent AI
In singles mode (and I believe in doubles too), the AI in early rounds appears to be randomised. That is not the case in multi, which makes the usual tactic of sweeping with ease in round 1 incredibly difficult to pull off. This is something that is far more apparent in level 50, and makes the initial round in that format extremely difficult. Stuff will exploit your weaknesses for the kill; when I had Croagunk in front of Baltoy I was like “oh well, might not mean instant death” but no – it reliably used Psybeam. This actually weirdly makes Open Level easier from the start, because your draft will have stronger and better movesets and evolved Pokemon often have type combinations their pre-evolutions don't, meaning that you can teambuild much more effectively.
Obvious statement is obvious, but your initial progress will mostly be dependent on the luck of your draws: two bad drafts at once can be brutal, but if you manage to find a combination that works well you can pull through.
The most frustrating thing about getting two sets of drafts is how difficult it can be to teambuild. In Tower multi, for instance, you can bring an Earthquake user and seek out a Flying-type partner. Here, there are no guarantees; at best you can attempt to make simple combinations like Earthquake+Levitate, but even then you're at the mercy of bad sets. I had a Lightningrod Rhyperior in my draft once which could have been great to pair with a Water- or Flying-type but it was Rhyperior3, which sucks. Instead, you usually have to go with two Pokemon that can sweep competently enough and pair decently well. I chose Steelix in round 1 expecting it to suck and it was the mvp of its round; pairs brilliantly with loads of stuff because it’s bulky and can hold its own against a lot of foes. Dusknoir, too, was a great performer in round 1.
Early on, it's basically always in your interest to swap unless your team is ridiculously solid. In the Steelix run I mentioned, I had Quagsire as a backup and never ended up sending it out so it would have been worth swapping just to increment the counter and/or give a little extra insurance for what you’re about to face. If you get two incredibly good leads that can reliably sweep and only rarely require your backups then you're in a good position.
Open Level
Originally I figured that, unlike in singles where a serious streak is much easier if attempted in level 50, it might be better to attempt a serious record in Open Level. Writeups of my two main Open Level threads are below.
Osric Soul
First try:
Round 1
Initial selections: Steelix1/Quagsire1 (Osric), Toxicroak1/Torterra1 (Soul)
Round 1 isn’t the worst, but I still had a few false starts here - largely from picking frailer sweepers like Alakazam before I realised that the AI wasn't going to allow me to coast. As mentioned, Steelix was the crutch mon for this round when I eventually got one in my Platinum draft. I kept that and played around it – special pokemon were good partners, as was anything that floated, but I traded for Ambipom after the fourth battle and it was weirdly effective - was mainly sick of everything outspeeding me. I traded Torterra for Dusknoir after battle three and it was an absolute crutch when it saw use.
Didn't swap with Osric at all this round.
Round 2
Initial selections: Porygon22/Manectric2 (Osric), Meganium2/Gyarados2
Got Meganium in the draft, and was surprised to find it absolutely dominant in the first few battles - could set up on so much and just sponge HP right off them. I partnered it with Porygon2, which was serviceable until I had to swap it to avoid a Machamp lead. But with Gyarados in the backup slot behind Meganium, I needn't have feared: it was a crutch mon and I won a lot of close battles using it.
This was actually a somewhat enjoyable round, and happily let me rack up the swaps with Osric this time.
Round 3
Initial selections: Espeon3/Ludicolo3 (Osric), Victreebel3/Aerodactyl3 (Soul)
Was told that the leads had Hydro Pump and Megahorn which was a hard combination to choose from, since Megahorn hits Grass and Psychic hard. None of the elevations were any good but I happily got Espeon3 with Grass Knot; the other game had Victreebel3 so I took that as the other lead even though it’s crap because I wanted Power Herb Solarbeam (but intended to trade it at the first opportunity straight away). As it happened the first battle had us up against Vaporeon and Heracross which entirely workable: Espeon obliterated Heracross but Victreebel died instantly, as expected, since Solarbeam didn’t quite OHKO Vaporeon and it hit back with Ice Beam.
Figured Hera would make the best partner to swap for, Espeon is great but needs Fighting/Bug support. From there on, my swaps for leads were pretty much predicated on one of the leads having a move I disliked the sound of and thinking what resists it. Going as balanced as possible seemed the best way to go - Espeon/Heracross and Ludicolo/Aerodactyl felt pretty solid so I had to really agonise about trading but I traded Heracross after the fourth battle because one of the leads had Flare Blitz. I’d just fought a team containing Donphan and Hippowdon so felt pretty secure going for a bulky ground. Donphan was traded for and remained my secondary lead for two battles, before I made the swap to Electivire for the final battle.
Overall this round wasn't as difficult as it could have been.
Round 4
Initial selection: Tauros4/Arcanine4 (Osric), Quagsire4/Magnezone4 (Soul)
Had a bloody awful opening draft here. Was told that the lead Pokemon has Earthquake and then none of my drafts are Flying and a bunch are Ground-weak.. Got CB Tauros (with Anger Point, depressingly); went with that and Quagsire as leads with Arcanine and Magnezone as backups (I know, but best of a bad bunch). Quagsire was fine and we pulled through the first match with little difficulty.
Ironically I died right after swapping Quagsire for Gengar, thinking that Tauros and Gengar would make an utterly amazing duo: sadly, they proved too weak to sweep and got wiped out. Well, so much for that idea.
Second try:
Round 1
Initial selections: Lucario1/Gastrodon1, (Osric) Ambipom1/Blissey1
Got an abysmal draft (sensing a theme here...) but wound up choosing Technician Ambipom and Lucario for leads which swept pretty decently. There's precious little to say about this round: choosing two fast, capable sweepers for leads and two backups with a bit of staying power was a strategy that worked out fairly well.
Round 2
Initial selections: Espeon2/Nidoqueen2 (Osric), Tyranitar2/Blaziken2 (Soul)
Got a shiny Blastoise! Unfortunately that was the high point of an otherwise thoroughly unexceptional round. Traded Espeon for Rhydon after a couple battles and then had a mini brainwave after battle five and traded Tyranitar for Flareon: turns out Endure/Flail actually works when your partner is an Earthquake user because you can reliably trigger it. Just be aware of priority/Quick Claw...
Round 3
Initial selections: Staraptor3/Alakazam3 (Osric), Feraligatr3/Gyarados3 (Soul)
Oh man. Had a really good draft here. Feraligatr3+Staraptor3 as leads with Gyarados and Alakazam in back? Truly superb. Well, not totally - Feraligatr was good but not excellent so I swapped it for Quick Feet Ursaring3, which pulled its weight and then some. This actually felt like a round where I could enjoy myself.
And then the final battle nearly ended in disaster. Opponent led with Claydol and Marowak: I killed Claydol instantly with Staraptor, protected with Ursaring to trigger Toxic Orb as Marowak tried and failed to use Earthquake. Crobat came out in Claydol's place; Staraptor killed that, but unfortunately Ursaring's Facade failed to KO Marowak and it died to Earthquake.
So it was Gyara and Staraptor up against a weakened Marowak. Well, that's hardly a difficult matchup; I decided to switch to Alakazam while Staraptor took care of Marowak just so that if the final mon was physical I could get another Intimidate on it. Staraptor got the kill as expected, but then the final mon... was Electrode. It predictably destroyed Gyarados; Alakazam got a critical hit with Psychic, which Electrode survived due to holding a Focus Sash.
Stupid, stupid me. It can only 2HKO Alakazam anyway (unless it exploded), but if it had gotten the crit with signal beam I’d have lost. Should have stayed in, really. Both Staraptor and Gyarados had a shot of OHKOing it but either way it was a dangerous matchup.
Round 4
Initial selections: Electivire4/Ambipom4 (Osric), Garchomp4/Moltres1 (Soul)
Got legendaries for the first time, though not good ones. Since I had a decent Garchomp I decided to pair it with ShucaVire; the rest of the draft was subpar so I went with Ambipom and Moltres for backups. Obviously didn’t much want to be Earthquaking myself but I figured it was a bit of insurance if I ever absolutely had to - annoyingly Moltres was in the same draft as Garchomp, or they might have been a very potent lead combination.
Lost at battle 26 to a Floatzel and Claydol of all things, which both used Ice Beam on Garchomp (Floatzel's did enough to kill, though): Electivire revenge killed Floatzel but then got frozen by Claydol's redirected Ice Beam. Moltres' Air Slash barely hopes to 4HKO Claydol, but Ludicolo3 was the backup for Floatzel and it swept me, hitting Focus Blast on Ambipom and then Hydro Pump on Moltres. I was so pissed off by this I turned my game off. So no photo proof, oops.
Level 50
After a while of doing this in Open Level and never surpassing 25, I finally caved and went for level 50. It’s not actually much easier (in fact in early rounds it’s much harder) but - as with singles - the rewards are much greater once you’ve made it through.
Round 1 is horrific, though. For all the reasons I've already outlined, and especially because of the nightmare that is battle seven, when you face much stronger pokemon. Few things in this game are as daunting as facing down stuff like Xatu, Gabite, and Pidgeot armed with Pokemon like Chinchou, Spinda, and Shellos; I once went up against Metang and Cloyster with Glameow and Dustox. Round 2 is significantly easier because of the comparatively huge jump in power and amusingly sometimes has the opposite effect where half the time you’re facing down a Geodude with a Gorebyss, though it’s less fun if you’re dead-set on trading after every battle and have to downgrade into something crap.
When it comes to selecting from your draft, the same basic principles that apply in singles apply here. If you get a fully-evolved species like Butterfree or Dustox, you’re laughing; Steels are godly, I used Intimidate Mawile three times and it slapped.
Unlike in Open Level, I made sure to swap after every battle here. This is for two reasons: 1.) you really need the good elevations in round 3, and 2.) the majority of species here are crap so you won't hobble yourself by making an on-paper bad trade most of the time. Of course, I ground my teeth when I made it past 14 battles the first time and my only “higher tier” species were Shuckle and Bastiodon (the latter I honestly considered, but it’s just so ineffectual).
But if you wind up with Pinsir or something, you’re going to do well. Round 3 is a significant lift in offensive power and you need good defensive synergy; I nearly lost to Seadra (of all things)... twice.
First try:
Round 1
Initial selections: Doduo1/Duskull1 (Osric), Hippopotas1/Bagon1 (Soul)
The key to round 1 is getting bulky stuff (ideally Steel or evolved). And that’s an ache - head, balls, whatever - because the draft is really problematic. I had Hippopotas and Doduo which made an on-paper fantastic lead combination because they cover each other’s weaknesses (broadly speaking). It wasn’t. They're both fine, I guess, but there's just not the impact that you need. If you can't solidly OHKO or 2HKO here, odds are you'll be getting OHKO'd or 2HKO'd first. Eventually I was able to trade for better stuff and make it through. But this round goes so damn slowly even if you've got the best possible picks.
Round 2
Initial selections: Charmeleon1/Houndour1 (Osric), Machoke1/Lunatone1 (Soul)
Went for pure offense here and it worked pretty well - even Houndour, which is pretty crap for this stage of the game. But it served as a decent churn slot if I ever had to trade for a bad species, which I did twice. In general the initial sets for the round 2 and 3 species are fairly bad, but there's some workable options here and I got fairly lucky with my picks.
Round 3
Initial selections: Swellow2/Metang2 (Osric), Arbok2/Hitmonlee2 (Soul)
Bad elevations aside, I had a really good draft on round 3. Got Toxic Orb Swellow, which I initially ran alongside Intimidate Arbok but traded up for Stantler as a better fellow lead. Metang was a very solid backup and then I swapped the second backup slot a few times, going for bulkier picks like Grotle depending on what I was facing - eventually settled on Dusclops, which was nothing short of godly. I made it to round 3 a few times and would also advocate Hitmontop as a good lead: I used it alongside Purugly one time to great effect.
The final battle was tough as it was against Weavile, Togekiss, Aggron, and something else idk; Weavile thankfully used Fake Out on the wrong Pokemon, so Swellow was able to U-Turn on it and switch to Metang for the Bullet Punch KO. Togekiss seemingly did not have Hustle, as its attacks were pathetically weak and it went down quickly. The final Pokemon was Hypno which was an easy kill.
Round 4
Initial selections: Granbull1/Tyranitar1 (Osric), Meganium1/Salamence1 (Soul)
Presented with an absolutely shitty pair of drafts. If I hadn’t been told the lead had Ice Fang, Salamence would have been the obvious pick for lead. Ugh. Spent a while trying to work out what the lead would be but none of the Pokemon in either draft had Razor Fang, Scope Lens, or King’s Rock so there were too many potential answers to that question. In the end I went with Meganium because it had served me so well in Open Level, with Granbull beside it purely because it had Intimidate.
It worked for the first battle, but ultimately the team wasn't good enough to carry me through the round even after a couple of swaps.
Second try
Round 1
Initial selections: Butterfree1/Mawile1 (Osric), Chinchou1/Chimchar1 (Soul)
Sometimes you just get a truly magnificent opening draft. This setup was good enough to carry me through as quickly as it's possible to - Chimchar was the churn slot, even when I made a great trade like Spinda or Dustox.
Round 2
Initial selections: Grotle1/Mothim1 (Osric), Girafarig1/Kabutops1 (Soul)
Another good draft on the whole, but I was keen to trade as soon as I could. I swiftly traded Grotle for a more dynamic Monferno lead and then exchanged Mothim for Persian; Girafarig was fine, but I didn't feel Kabutops made as good a backup as it looked and chopped and changed a couple of times.
Round 3
Initial selections: Electabuzz2/Kingdra1 (Osric), Mightyena2/Granbull1 (Soul)
Struck gold this time around: got Electabuzz and Mightyena, a truly fantastic duo. I also wound up getting Granbull and Kingdra as elevations. By the last few battles, I decided to make a few token trades and swapped my backups out - yes it was dumb trading such good elevations away, but I hardly needed them. Electabuzz2 is an absolutely dominant Pokemon in the Factory, and Mightyena's Intimidate made a good thing better. Every fight but one here was swept 4-0.
Round 4
Initial selections: Garchomp1/Whiscash1 (Osric), Honchkrow1/Gallade2 (Soul)
A draft that looked decent on paper ended up being merely so-so in practice. Honchkrow is very underwhelming in doubles. I kept him around just long enough to make some hay with the Earthquake immunity, but it was achieving so little that I hastily traded for the first decent Flyer I saw - Skarmory. This worked a little better, though left me wide open to the Tentacruel that turned up next battle. Fortunately, it only had Icy Wind so didn't KO Garchomp, but I realised promptly that Skarmory wasn't the best lead and swapped it away asap. This was not a fun round, but luckily Gallade made a very good backup and cleaned house when it came clutch.
Round 5
Initial selections: Glalie2/Kingdra2 (Osric), Mismagius2/Feraligatr2 (Soul)
Absolutely lacklustre draft here, but the combination of Glalie's Earthquake/Explosion and Mismagius' Destiny Bond was enough to carry me for a couple of battles until I could swap my dire backups for better options. Eventually traded Glalie for Tauros which did really well. Shaky round though and I breathed a massive sigh of relief when it ended, so many of the set 2s are utter garbage.
Round 6
Initial selections: Feraligatr3/Dragonite3 (Osric), Glaceon3/Kangaskhan3 (Soul)
Crap draft with no good elevations (Hypno, Drapion, Umbreon, Dugtrio? awful!), but I was at least at the point where each player was getting two elevations per round so trading didn't seem as much of a priority now. Was told that the opponent favoured Flying before the first battle so I chose to take Glaceon alongside Feraligatr - this worked well, and I didn't swap afterwards since the opponent led with Altaria and Crobat (bleurgh).
Got lucky with type favouritisms here:, the first foe was majority Flying, the second Water, the third Ground. All in all, 5/7 of the battles had a type bias. I swapped Dragonite for Kingdra after battle two, and then swapped Kingdra for Infernape after battle four; the final swap was Infernape for Heracross after battle six as the opponent again favoured Water-types. Really didn't feel like a solid team here, but Feraligatr put in a lot of work. Wise Glasses Hydro Cannon made for an incredible finishing move and there was a delightful battle against a Dewgong/Mamoswine lead where the opponent switched Dewgong for Arcanine; Feraligatr hit Arcanine with Ancientpower and got the omniboost, then got a second omniboost next turn. Allow me to glory in my good fortune, I'll never have anything so blessed again.
Round 7
Initial selection: Tyranitar1/Jolteon4 (Osric), Mr. Mime4/Salamence4 (Soul)
Had a really lopsided draft here: the Platinum draft was terrible but the SoulSilver draft was far better. I eventually figured Choice Specs Mr Mime might make a decent opener and potentially even give Tyranitar room to maneuvre, but really I was keen to swap asap.
The first battle had us up against lead Togekiss and Slowking. The fact that Togekiss didn’t go for Aura Sphere suggested that it was Togekiss3: I quickly brought it down, getting a boost from Charge Beam with Mr Mime and getting a flinch on Slowking with Tyranitar's Rock Slide. The foe sent out the shittiest of all Raichu (Raichu4, the dreadful physical one), which promptly used Brick Break on Tyranitar. Not that it mattered, as once Slowking was KO'd and the foe sent out Probopass I knew Salamence would be able to wipe them both out with Earthquake, which it did.
Was going to trade Mime for Togekiss (it didn't miss with Air Slash so I was praying no Hustle), but the next opponent specialised in Ice-types so I decided to go for Slowking instead as I knew it had Flamethrower. Shouldn't have done that, having two slow leads is always the kiss of death.
We went up against Glalie and Luxray. Ugh. They piled in on Slowking right off the bat, bringing it down with a combination Shadow Ball and Thunder Fang, while Tyra's Intimidate-weaked Rock Slide missed Luxray and failed to KO Glalie. Salamence’s Intimidate was negated by Luxray’s White Herb so even though it finished Glalie with Crunch it then fell to Luxray's Ice Fang. Ludicolo was up next; Luxray used Superpower for the KO, and then Jolteon couldn't do shit against either one and got overpowered.
Really annoyed to have lost in such a stupid way, but I can't be too annoyed since 43 is an excellent streak in this mode. Seeing as I am in no way inclined to try this place again I'll settle for it.
After a while of doing this in Open Level and never surpassing 25, I finally caved and went for level 50. It’s not actually much easier (in fact in early rounds it’s much harder) but - as with singles - the rewards are much greater once you’ve made it through.
Round 1 is horrific, though. For all the reasons I've already outlined, and especially because of the nightmare that is battle seven, when you face much stronger pokemon. Few things in this game are as daunting as facing down stuff like Xatu, Gabite, and Pidgeot armed with Pokemon like Chinchou, Spinda, and Shellos; I once went up against Metang and Cloyster with Glameow and Dustox. Round 2 is significantly easier because of the comparatively huge jump in power and amusingly sometimes has the opposite effect where half the time you’re facing down a Geodude with a Gorebyss, though it’s less fun if you’re dead-set on trading after every battle and have to downgrade into something crap.
When it comes to selecting from your draft, the same basic principles that apply in singles apply here. If you get a fully-evolved species like Butterfree or Dustox, you’re laughing; Steels are godly, I used Intimidate Mawile three times and it slapped.
Unlike in Open Level, I made sure to swap after every battle here. This is for two reasons: 1.) you really need the good elevations in round 3, and 2.) the majority of species here are crap so you won't hobble yourself by making an on-paper bad trade most of the time. Of course, I ground my teeth when I made it past 14 battles the first time and my only “higher tier” species were Shuckle and Bastiodon (the latter I honestly considered, but it’s just so ineffectual).
But if you wind up with Pinsir or something, you’re going to do well. Round 3 is a significant lift in offensive power and you need good defensive synergy; I nearly lost to Seadra (of all things)... twice.
First try:
Round 1
Initial selections: Doduo1/Duskull1 (Osric), Hippopotas1/Bagon1 (Soul)
The key to round 1 is getting bulky stuff (ideally Steel or evolved). And that’s an ache - head, balls, whatever - because the draft is really problematic. I had Hippopotas and Doduo which made an on-paper fantastic lead combination because they cover each other’s weaknesses (broadly speaking). It wasn’t. They're both fine, I guess, but there's just not the impact that you need. If you can't solidly OHKO or 2HKO here, odds are you'll be getting OHKO'd or 2HKO'd first. Eventually I was able to trade for better stuff and make it through. But this round goes so damn slowly even if you've got the best possible picks.
Round 2
Initial selections: Charmeleon1/Houndour1 (Osric), Machoke1/Lunatone1 (Soul)
Went for pure offense here and it worked pretty well - even Houndour, which is pretty crap for this stage of the game. But it served as a decent churn slot if I ever had to trade for a bad species, which I did twice. In general the initial sets for the round 2 and 3 species are fairly bad, but there's some workable options here and I got fairly lucky with my picks.
Round 3
Initial selections: Swellow2/Metang2 (Osric), Arbok2/Hitmonlee2 (Soul)
Bad elevations aside, I had a really good draft on round 3. Got Toxic Orb Swellow, which I initially ran alongside Intimidate Arbok but traded up for Stantler as a better fellow lead. Metang was a very solid backup and then I swapped the second backup slot a few times, going for bulkier picks like Grotle depending on what I was facing - eventually settled on Dusclops, which was nothing short of godly. I made it to round 3 a few times and would also advocate Hitmontop as a good lead: I used it alongside Purugly one time to great effect.
The final battle was tough as it was against Weavile, Togekiss, Aggron, and something else idk; Weavile thankfully used Fake Out on the wrong Pokemon, so Swellow was able to U-Turn on it and switch to Metang for the Bullet Punch KO. Togekiss seemingly did not have Hustle, as its attacks were pathetically weak and it went down quickly. The final Pokemon was Hypno which was an easy kill.
Round 4
Initial selections: Granbull1/Tyranitar1 (Osric), Meganium1/Salamence1 (Soul)
Presented with an absolutely shitty pair of drafts. If I hadn’t been told the lead had Ice Fang, Salamence would have been the obvious pick for lead. Ugh. Spent a while trying to work out what the lead would be but none of the Pokemon in either draft had Razor Fang, Scope Lens, or King’s Rock so there were too many potential answers to that question. In the end I went with Meganium because it had served me so well in Open Level, with Granbull beside it purely because it had Intimidate.
It worked for the first battle, but ultimately the team wasn't good enough to carry me through the round even after a couple of swaps.
Second try
Round 1
Initial selections: Butterfree1/Mawile1 (Osric), Chinchou1/Chimchar1 (Soul)
Sometimes you just get a truly magnificent opening draft. This setup was good enough to carry me through as quickly as it's possible to - Chimchar was the churn slot, even when I made a great trade like Spinda or Dustox.
Round 2
Initial selections: Grotle1/Mothim1 (Osric), Girafarig1/Kabutops1 (Soul)
Another good draft on the whole, but I was keen to trade as soon as I could. I swiftly traded Grotle for a more dynamic Monferno lead and then exchanged Mothim for Persian; Girafarig was fine, but I didn't feel Kabutops made as good a backup as it looked and chopped and changed a couple of times.
Round 3
Initial selections: Electabuzz2/Kingdra1 (Osric), Mightyena2/Granbull1 (Soul)
Struck gold this time around: got Electabuzz and Mightyena, a truly fantastic duo. I also wound up getting Granbull and Kingdra as elevations. By the last few battles, I decided to make a few token trades and swapped my backups out - yes it was dumb trading such good elevations away, but I hardly needed them. Electabuzz2 is an absolutely dominant Pokemon in the Factory, and Mightyena's Intimidate made a good thing better. Every fight but one here was swept 4-0.
Round 4
Initial selections: Garchomp1/Whiscash1 (Osric), Honchkrow1/Gallade2 (Soul)
A draft that looked decent on paper ended up being merely so-so in practice. Honchkrow is very underwhelming in doubles. I kept him around just long enough to make some hay with the Earthquake immunity, but it was achieving so little that I hastily traded for the first decent Flyer I saw - Skarmory. This worked a little better, though left me wide open to the Tentacruel that turned up next battle. Fortunately, it only had Icy Wind so didn't KO Garchomp, but I realised promptly that Skarmory wasn't the best lead and swapped it away asap. This was not a fun round, but luckily Gallade made a very good backup and cleaned house when it came clutch.
Round 5
Initial selections: Glalie2/Kingdra2 (Osric), Mismagius2/Feraligatr2 (Soul)
Absolutely lacklustre draft here, but the combination of Glalie's Earthquake/Explosion and Mismagius' Destiny Bond was enough to carry me for a couple of battles until I could swap my dire backups for better options. Eventually traded Glalie for Tauros which did really well. Shaky round though and I breathed a massive sigh of relief when it ended, so many of the set 2s are utter garbage.
Round 6
Initial selections: Feraligatr3/Dragonite3 (Osric), Glaceon3/Kangaskhan3 (Soul)
Crap draft with no good elevations (Hypno, Drapion, Umbreon, Dugtrio? awful!), but I was at least at the point where each player was getting two elevations per round so trading didn't seem as much of a priority now. Was told that the opponent favoured Flying before the first battle so I chose to take Glaceon alongside Feraligatr - this worked well, and I didn't swap afterwards since the opponent led with Altaria and Crobat (bleurgh).
Got lucky with type favouritisms here:, the first foe was majority Flying, the second Water, the third Ground. All in all, 5/7 of the battles had a type bias. I swapped Dragonite for Kingdra after battle two, and then swapped Kingdra for Infernape after battle four; the final swap was Infernape for Heracross after battle six as the opponent again favoured Water-types. Really didn't feel like a solid team here, but Feraligatr put in a lot of work. Wise Glasses Hydro Cannon made for an incredible finishing move and there was a delightful battle against a Dewgong/Mamoswine lead where the opponent switched Dewgong for Arcanine; Feraligatr hit Arcanine with Ancientpower and got the omniboost, then got a second omniboost next turn. Allow me to glory in my good fortune, I'll never have anything so blessed again.
Round 7
Initial selection: Tyranitar1/Jolteon4 (Osric), Mr. Mime4/Salamence4 (Soul)
Had a really lopsided draft here: the Platinum draft was terrible but the SoulSilver draft was far better. I eventually figured Choice Specs Mr Mime might make a decent opener and potentially even give Tyranitar room to maneuvre, but really I was keen to swap asap.
The first battle had us up against lead Togekiss and Slowking. The fact that Togekiss didn’t go for Aura Sphere suggested that it was Togekiss3: I quickly brought it down, getting a boost from Charge Beam with Mr Mime and getting a flinch on Slowking with Tyranitar's Rock Slide. The foe sent out the shittiest of all Raichu (Raichu4, the dreadful physical one), which promptly used Brick Break on Tyranitar. Not that it mattered, as once Slowking was KO'd and the foe sent out Probopass I knew Salamence would be able to wipe them both out with Earthquake, which it did.
Was going to trade Mime for Togekiss (it didn't miss with Air Slash so I was praying no Hustle), but the next opponent specialised in Ice-types so I decided to go for Slowking instead as I knew it had Flamethrower. Shouldn't have done that, having two slow leads is always the kiss of death.
We went up against Glalie and Luxray. Ugh. They piled in on Slowking right off the bat, bringing it down with a combination Shadow Ball and Thunder Fang, while Tyra's Intimidate-weaked Rock Slide missed Luxray and failed to KO Glalie. Salamence’s Intimidate was negated by Luxray’s White Herb so even though it finished Glalie with Crunch it then fell to Luxray's Ice Fang. Ludicolo was up next; Luxray used Superpower for the KO, and then Jolteon couldn't do shit against either one and got overpowered.
Really annoyed to have lost in such a stupid way, but I can't be too annoyed since 43 is an excellent streak in this mode. Seeing as I am in no way inclined to try this place again I'll settle for it.
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Factory Multis seem really interesting, I've been thinking about buying a SS or Platinum copy to give this a shot some time in the future so I really appreciate this detailed writeup, cool stuff!
Item clause not existing between your Trainers is a nice little touch that differentiates it from Doubles, along with having 4 Pokemon obviously. Only being able to do Swaps with one Trainer (well if you're aiming for Elevations that is) adds a whole other layer to the challenge. I was under the impression that I would be able to have 2 Elevations in Round2 by doing 7 Swaps with both Trainers, but not only is that choice out of the window, the already restricted team building of Doubles becomes even worse because now you have to commit to 7 Swaps with one Trainer, meaning being less capable of counter-teaming the opponent. I was thinking this might be easier than Doubles thanks to being 4v4 instead of 3v3 and my mistaken notion of having access to more Elevations, but this sounds like it might very well be more difficult than Doubles (Doubles are also "Smart AI" from the start btw)
About the Shiny Blastoise, did you use the Rest Function (as in take a break and close the game) before getting it? Because I've read that's (apparently) the only way a Shiny can show up in Gen4 Factory, and that it also stops being Shiny after 1 Battle.
Also I can't quite understand if you know this from your post, but you can always tell what Pokemon Sets you're fighting (up to R7 in LV50 and up to R4 in Open Level) by the opponent Trainer Class and Name. I'm mentioning this because you write you faced someone with Togekiss3 and Raichu4, which should be impossible because Set4 Pokemon can only show up as opponents on R7 or R6 Battle7, and also all their Pokemon should be from the same Set. It looks like there may be different rules for Multis, because getting Tyranitar1 in R6 should be impossible as well. I'm also interested to know if you were always fighting Trainers with same Set Pokemon (as in both opponent Trainers in a Round4 Battle for example used only Set4 Pokemon or only Set3 Pokemon or if one of them could use Set3 Pokemon and the other Set4 Pokemon)
Edit: Unless what you've posted as your R6 Draft is your R7 draft and it's a simple case of a typo, just noticed you got 43 :)
Item clause not existing between your Trainers is a nice little touch that differentiates it from Doubles, along with having 4 Pokemon obviously. Only being able to do Swaps with one Trainer (well if you're aiming for Elevations that is) adds a whole other layer to the challenge. I was under the impression that I would be able to have 2 Elevations in Round2 by doing 7 Swaps with both Trainers, but not only is that choice out of the window, the already restricted team building of Doubles becomes even worse because now you have to commit to 7 Swaps with one Trainer, meaning being less capable of counter-teaming the opponent. I was thinking this might be easier than Doubles thanks to being 4v4 instead of 3v3 and my mistaken notion of having access to more Elevations, but this sounds like it might very well be more difficult than Doubles (Doubles are also "Smart AI" from the start btw)
About the Shiny Blastoise, did you use the Rest Function (as in take a break and close the game) before getting it? Because I've read that's (apparently) the only way a Shiny can show up in Gen4 Factory, and that it also stops being Shiny after 1 Battle.
Also I can't quite understand if you know this from your post, but you can always tell what Pokemon Sets you're fighting (up to R7 in LV50 and up to R4 in Open Level) by the opponent Trainer Class and Name. I'm mentioning this because you write you faced someone with Togekiss3 and Raichu4, which should be impossible because Set4 Pokemon can only show up as opponents on R7 or R6 Battle7, and also all their Pokemon should be from the same Set. It looks like there may be different rules for Multis, because getting Tyranitar1 in R6 should be impossible as well. I'm also interested to know if you were always fighting Trainers with same Set Pokemon (as in both opponent Trainers in a Round4 Battle for example used only Set4 Pokemon or only Set3 Pokemon or if one of them could use Set3 Pokemon and the other Set4 Pokemon)
Edit: Unless what you've posted as your R6 Draft is your R7 draft and it's a simple case of a typo, just noticed you got 43 :)
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QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
Very best of luck!
Yeah I made a few typos in my post (usually happens) so have been attempting to correct them all, apologies. Should have kept a neater log, my notes were incredibly messy; ended up leaving out a whole round which I've now added.
I may have simply been wrong about the Togekiss in round 7 as I didn't trade for it; I assumed it couldn't be set4 because it didn't use Aura Sphere, but it probably was.
You actually can't use the rest function in multis, you're forced to complete the full round or quit. The Blastoise wasn't shiny when I fought it but then became shiny when I was trading. I suspect the fact that Factory mons have randomised OT numbers means that their internal statistics are recalculated after you fight them (akin to what happens in Colosseum when Pokemon can turn shiny/lose their shininess after being caught) but I don't know for certain. It didn't lose its shininess though.
So wait, can two players with unequal streaks play multis together? It's not clear from your wording whether this means that they can connect, and the game added the "only one person trades" stipulation as a balancing feature for this specific scenario to prevent cheese, or if they can't join together at all and both have to start a fresh streak if they connect.
If two games with different streaks are allowed to connect, how does the game determine which opponents you fight? Is there some crazy world where two games both build up smaller streaks by playing multi with a separate 3rd game, and then they connect with each other mid-streak in order to both have higher tier sets than they'd have if they played together from the start? This sounds so convoluted that it probably doesn't even work this way, but I do have to ask because I've never read anything about multi battle mechanics before.
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
I've only got Platinum and SoulSilver, so I was never able to test that as both games began and ended their streaks at the same time (I do actually have HG, come to think of it, but it's a Japanese copy and the current file is only 2 badges in, iirc).
Technically speaking you could do what you suggested and have both games separately partner with a third to max out their swaps before joining up; that might actually be a legitimately interesting strategy if anyone's inclined to try it. I can't imagine the game would prevent you from joining someone with a different streak length but it's an interesting question. I have actually done this in the Emerald Battle Tower's link multi mode, and it takes the player with the longer streak into account when selecting opponents (which prevents you from artificially getting a long streak by only fighting weak opponents, as otherwise you could partner with different trainers over and over and just fight the first-round sets repeatedly). You never see a weak opponent partnered with a strong one; it doesn't divide opponents to mirror the players having unequal streaks. But I can't imagine the same is true here, otherwise the player with a 0 streak could immediately start trading for top-tier sets right from the start.
Ugh, I said I wasn't going to go back to this mode but now you've made me want to.
Is there a specific reason why emulator isn’t allowed, I guess the only reason I could say is people could cheat via save states but that’s fucking lame to just no allow it. For the gen 3 thread, you can use emulation but recording it is highly recommended
“Records on emulators are eligible as well as any Pokemon obtained from an emulator. Records on retail and emulator will be marked differently so that other interested parties wanting to replicate a leaderboard team can recognize the differences at which each team can be played. Due to how easy it is to cheat streaks on emulator, having concrete proof such as recorded videos or detailed write-ups is heavily encouraged. I reserve myself the right to ask for any additional recorded footage if I do not trust your streak enough in order to add it as leaderboard material.”
Best bet is to implement a rule like this to make gen 4 battle frontier more accessible since getting a working retail cartridge of platinum is kinda expensive at the moment. With emulator footage, not only it makes it more accessible but more engaging to, as well as this isn’t a speedrun category so speed up should be totally allowed cause gen 4 is that fucking slow.
Please take my suggestion into consideration. Thank you
“Records on emulators are eligible as well as any Pokemon obtained from an emulator. Records on retail and emulator will be marked differently so that other interested parties wanting to replicate a leaderboard team can recognize the differences at which each team can be played. Due to how easy it is to cheat streaks on emulator, having concrete proof such as recorded videos or detailed write-ups is heavily encouraged. I reserve myself the right to ask for any additional recorded footage if I do not trust your streak enough in order to add it as leaderboard material.”
Best bet is to implement a rule like this to make gen 4 battle frontier more accessible since getting a working retail cartridge of platinum is kinda expensive at the moment. With emulator footage, not only it makes it more accessible but more engaging to, as well as this isn’t a speedrun category so speed up should be totally allowed cause gen 4 is that fucking slow.
Please take my suggestion into consideration. Thank you
Platinum Multi w/ In-Game Trainer Record = 56 (ongoing)
Team:
Staraptor @ Choice Band
252 Attack / 252 Speed
- Brave Bird
- Return
- Close Combat
- U-turn
Porygon-Z @ Life Orb
252 Sp.Attack / 252 Speed
- Tri Attack
- Dark Pulse
- Hyper Beam
- Nasty Plot
Her Dugtrio's moveset was EQ, Rock Slide, Astonish and Sand Tomb. She loved to click Astonish for some reason against the Tyranitar. She also had a habit of doing this against a Steelix we fought in the same streak.
Had Riley with his Focus Punch Breloom do some derpy stuff that almost costed the streak. On a turn where my Staraptor was going to be targeted by the AI (super low HP), Breloom goes for the focus punch. He goes FP, Staraptor dies to enemy Poke, the other enemy Poke misses the Breloom and then he lands the FP.
Not sure how far I can take this streak. I had this bad habit of constantly losing at 47, lost on 47 about 5-6 times. A few of those in a row.
Will post photo proof later of the streak.
Team:
Staraptor @ Choice Band
252 Attack / 252 Speed
- Brave Bird
- Return
- Close Combat
- U-turn
Porygon-Z @ Life Orb
252 Sp.Attack / 252 Speed
- Tri Attack
- Dark Pulse
- Hyper Beam
- Nasty Plot
- Team inspired by QuentinQuonce and his Staraptor and Tauros combo (I just didn't have a Tauros ready to go)
- I didn't start this streak with this team, but eventually switched to it. Was just mucking around with different teams, but eventually I surpassed my PB of 47 using this current team. Used them consistently from around 21 wins.
- I usually partnered with Riley or Mia, but would sometimes use Marley if they didn't have solid options. Although I found Marley lacklustre in the damage department.
- Had a close call in battle 33:
Her Dugtrio's moveset was EQ, Rock Slide, Astonish and Sand Tomb. She loved to click Astonish for some reason against the Tyranitar. She also had a habit of doing this against a Steelix we fought in the same streak.
Had Riley with his Focus Punch Breloom do some derpy stuff that almost costed the streak. On a turn where my Staraptor was going to be targeted by the AI (super low HP), Breloom goes for the focus punch. He goes FP, Staraptor dies to enemy Poke, the other enemy Poke misses the Breloom and then he lands the FP.
Not sure how far I can take this streak. I had this bad habit of constantly losing at 47, lost on 47 about 5-6 times. A few of those in a row.
Will post photo proof later of the streak.
Jinxed this streak big time lol, eliminated at 61 (achieved 60 wins) against Golem/Frosslass & Latios/Entei
Mia had Exeguttor and Togekiss. Latios outspeeds Staraptor, end of story. Having so many weaknesses to Latios' ice beam was not... ideal lmao...
Big RIP. But still going to continue my multi-battle tower grind. Really enjoy the mode, played it heaps as a kid/teenager with the AI and some mates. Might try and meet up with one of my mates again and get an in-person multi going.
Hi, everyone. Created an account just to follow this thread.
Planning on doing something similar to what atsync and average fella are doing: getting a total record of 10,000 wins with a bunch of different Pokemon in the Battle Hall.
My question, before I start, is: what's the best level(s) to challenge the Hall at, if any? Is there one level that's always the best, and if not, what's an easy way to calculate it?
Planning on doing something similar to what atsync and average fella are doing: getting a total record of 10,000 wins with a bunch of different Pokemon in the Battle Hall.
My question, before I start, is: what's the best level(s) to challenge the Hall at, if any? Is there one level that's always the best, and if not, what's an easy way to calculate it?
DP Battle Tower Singles Tradeback Record: 145
The team I used:
Garchomp @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Crunch
Zapdos @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
IVs: 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
EVs: 10 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Heat Wave
- Roost
Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
IVs: 0 Spe
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 118 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Protect
The Trainer I lost to was Camper Justyn. I forgot what his first Pokémon was, but it definitely landed a significant hit on Zapdos. The second Pokémon, Electivire, used Ice Punch on Garchomp (who used Swords Dance), activating its Focus Sash, only to get frozen and then KO'd. Also, this Electivire had a Shuca Berry, so an unboosted Earthquake against it would not OHKO (252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shuca Berry Electivire: 118-141 (78.6 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO), but I still think using Swords Dance was a blunder, because I could have used Earthquake to at least damage Electivire. I then brought in Bronzong, who suffered a burn from Fire Punch immediately. Electivire did go down, and my last opponent was Choice Specs Gardevoir. This is where I made some bad mistakes, like the misclick that caused me to use Protect 3 times in a row while Gardevoir was Choice-locked into Shadow Ball (Third time is NOT the charm, don't let the media fool you!) Bronzong then went down to burn damage. Zapdos desperately holds on (Battle Revolution reference) as Roost fails to heal enough to survive Gardevoir's Shadow Ball. And Camper Justyn lived happily ever after, after not expecting to beat a Trainer like me.
Also, Bronzong's Gyro Ball isn't working all that well, despite having 34 Speed at level 50. (I checked the in-battle Summary screen) It's probably because most opponents aren't fast enough to take much damage. Should I replace it with Payback, depriving Bronzong of any STAB attacks? (Also its Sp. Atk IV is imperfect)
I really wanted a stall (meaning Toxic + Protect) Pokémon at the back of my team, but I want one that resists Ice, so Skarmory is out of the question.
Here's the proof:
(It should also be noted that I am painfully new to posting on the Smogon Forums.)
The team I used:
Garchomp @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Crunch
Zapdos @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
IVs: 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
EVs: 10 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Heat Wave
- Roost
Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
IVs: 0 Spe
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 118 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Protect
The Trainer I lost to was Camper Justyn. I forgot what his first Pokémon was, but it definitely landed a significant hit on Zapdos. The second Pokémon, Electivire, used Ice Punch on Garchomp (who used Swords Dance), activating its Focus Sash, only to get frozen and then KO'd. Also, this Electivire had a Shuca Berry, so an unboosted Earthquake against it would not OHKO (252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shuca Berry Electivire: 118-141 (78.6 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO), but I still think using Swords Dance was a blunder, because I could have used Earthquake to at least damage Electivire. I then brought in Bronzong, who suffered a burn from Fire Punch immediately. Electivire did go down, and my last opponent was Choice Specs Gardevoir. This is where I made some bad mistakes, like the misclick that caused me to use Protect 3 times in a row while Gardevoir was Choice-locked into Shadow Ball (Third time is NOT the charm, don't let the media fool you!) Bronzong then went down to burn damage. Zapdos desperately holds on (Battle Revolution reference) as Roost fails to heal enough to survive Gardevoir's Shadow Ball. And Camper Justyn lived happily ever after, after not expecting to beat a Trainer like me.
Also, Bronzong's Gyro Ball isn't working all that well, despite having 34 Speed at level 50. (I checked the in-battle Summary screen) It's probably because most opponents aren't fast enough to take much damage. Should I replace it with Payback, depriving Bronzong of any STAB attacks? (Also its Sp. Atk IV is imperfect)
I really wanted a stall (meaning Toxic + Protect) Pokémon at the back of my team, but I want one that resists Ice, so Skarmory is out of the question.
Here's the proof:
(It should also be noted that I am painfully new to posting on the Smogon Forums.)
Lower levels are better for the early rounds, higher levels are better for the late rounds and post-170. If you're playing hall with something horrible, 30 or 31 is definitely the way to go, often I might use both a level 30 and 100 mon for something with very borderline 170 potential (wormadam).
SlipperyOboe and UnyieldingOrca's DP Battle Tower Multi Link (Human Partner) run submission: 578 wins
SlipperyOboe & UnyieldingOrca, 1 Nintendo DSi, 1 Nintendo 3DS, wireless communication
SlipperyOboe's Platinum Team: Zapdos & Scizor
UnyieldingOrca's Diamond Team: Garchomp & Swampert
SlipperyOboe & UnyieldingOrca, 1 Nintendo DSi, 1 Nintendo 3DS, wireless communication
SlipperyOboe's Platinum Team: Zapdos & Scizor
UnyieldingOrca's Diamond Team: Garchomp & Swampert
SlipperyOboe Team Member 1
Zapdos * THUNDA
Ability: Pressure
Item: ChoiceScarf
Nature: Modest
IVs: 31/10/30/31/31/31
EV Spread: 252 HP / 144 Sp.Atk / 112 Speed
Moveset:
~ Discharge
~ HeatWave
~ HiddenPowerIce
~ Thunderbolt
UnyieldingOrca Team Member 1
Garchomp * SASHA
Ability: SandVeil
Item: FocusSash
Nature: Jolly
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31 (Shiny)
EV Spread: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Speed
Moveset:
~ Outrage
~ DragonClaw
~ Earthquake
~ RockSlide
SlipperyOboe Team Member 2
Scizor * TOWERBOOG
Ability: Technician
Item: OccaBerry
Nature: Adamant
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31 (Shiny)
EV Spread: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Speed
Moveset:
~ BulletPunch
~ BugBite
~ SwordsDance
~ Roost
UnyieldingOrca Team Member 2
Swampert * SWAMPMAN
Ability: Torrent
Item: RindoBerry
Nature: Adamant
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31 (Shiny)
EV Spread: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Speed
Moveset:
~ Waterfall
~ Earthquake
~ IcePunch
~ Protect
Team Overview:
This team functions primarily as a hyper-aggressive goodstuffs team abusing ChargeQuake™. The focus of the lead is to click Discharge and Earthquake as much as possible, with whatever’s able to withstand the onslaught unable to also defeat the backup mons. This team wins by gaining and maintaining advantage from Turn 1. The goal is to outspeed and hit/KO the opponents’ mons before they have an opportunity to attack as much as possible. In the majority of games, the lead is enough to win outright but in the instances of bad type matchups, bad RNG, or the unexpected death of one or both of the leads TowerBoog is expected to carry with his SwordsDance/Roost set, and he does. SwampMan was selected for his Water typing dealing with the Fire types TowerBoog can’t, and the Ground typing providing immunity to the switch into Discharge. This comes up often as Sasha’s 4x Ice weakness makes her prone to dying before Thunda, who ideally is locked into Discharge Turn 1.
Zapdos * THUNDA
Ability: Pressure
Item: ChoiceScarf
Nature: Modest
IVs: 31/10/30/31/31/31
EV Spread: 252 HP / 144 Sp.Atk / 112 Speed
Moveset:
~ Discharge
~ HeatWave
~ HiddenPowerIce
~ Thunderbolt
UnyieldingOrca Team Member 1
Garchomp * SASHA
Ability: SandVeil
Item: FocusSash
Nature: Jolly
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31 (Shiny)
EV Spread: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Speed
Moveset:
~ Outrage
~ DragonClaw
~ Earthquake
~ RockSlide
SlipperyOboe Team Member 2
Scizor * TOWERBOOG
Ability: Technician
Item: OccaBerry
Nature: Adamant
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31 (Shiny)
EV Spread: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Speed
Moveset:
~ BulletPunch
~ BugBite
~ SwordsDance
~ Roost
UnyieldingOrca Team Member 2
Swampert * SWAMPMAN
Ability: Torrent
Item: RindoBerry
Nature: Adamant
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31 (Shiny)
EV Spread: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Speed
Moveset:
~ Waterfall
~ Earthquake
~ IcePunch
~ Protect
Team Overview:
This team functions primarily as a hyper-aggressive goodstuffs team abusing ChargeQuake™. The focus of the lead is to click Discharge and Earthquake as much as possible, with whatever’s able to withstand the onslaught unable to also defeat the backup mons. This team wins by gaining and maintaining advantage from Turn 1. The goal is to outspeed and hit/KO the opponents’ mons before they have an opportunity to attack as much as possible. In the majority of games, the lead is enough to win outright but in the instances of bad type matchups, bad RNG, or the unexpected death of one or both of the leads TowerBoog is expected to carry with his SwordsDance/Roost set, and he does. SwampMan was selected for his Water typing dealing with the Fire types TowerBoog can’t, and the Ground typing providing immunity to the switch into Discharge. This comes up often as Sasha’s 4x Ice weakness makes her prone to dying before Thunda, who ideally is locked into Discharge Turn 1.
Zapdos (Thunda):
Thunda primarily locks into Discharge to pair with Sasha’s Earthquake and defeat the opponent’s mons before they ever get a chance to move. Discharge also drops a 30% paralyze chance on any opponent’s mon it hits which can cripple otherwise threatening sets. Although locked into Discharge most of the time, there are a myriad of specific scenarios that necessitated each individual move otherwise included in the set. HeatWave is the best attempt at dealing with the Ice type threats to Sasha, but there are very few Ice types which are OHKO’ed by it so it often requires coordination with Sasha to effectively deal with said threat. Secondarily, HeatWave is often used when both opponents’ leads are resistant/immune to both Electric/Ice or when Sasha will already do enough damage to both opponents and we need only to ensure breaking any FocusSashes/getting through any Berries. HiddenPowerIce hits Dragon threats to Sasha like the Lati duo and Ground types like Rhydon/Rhyperior. Thunderbolt’s slot has changed a few times but this last iteration is by far the most effective. The inclusion of Thunderbolt allows Thunda to OHKO bulky Water threats he couldn’t otherwise like the Slowbro Duo, Lapras, Walrein, Wailord, and others. It also comes up when we cannot allow the second mon to get hit by a Discharge, i.e. Electivire. His weaknesses include having to hold the ChoiceScarf to deal with speedier mons and therefore not being able to change moves post-Turn 1, his weakness to Ice creating unpredictability with opponent move choice next to Sasha and meaning they are both threatened by a Blizzard, and because he doesn’t hit all that hard he is susceptible to return KO’s from mons with high damage Rock/Ice moves.
Garchomp (Sasha):
Sasha is the main carry of this team. She is fast and hits hard. Her Earthquake wins most games by pairing with Thunda’s Discharge to double KO their opponents before they ever have a chance to move. Because of her power and fragility due to her 4x Ice weakness she carries the FocusSash. This increases her longevity and ensures she gets a move off against faster opponents/QuickClaw abusers, it also gives her protection against OHKO moves that manage to hit. RockSlide counters Flying types Earthquake doesn’t touch and is super effective against Ice types. It also drops a flinch chance, which when paired with Thunda, gives an already paralyzed mon only ~50% of moving that turn. DragonClaw is used against Dragon types or when she doesn’t want to commit to anything else and just put some damage down. Outrage is our panic button. She clicks it when her FocusSash has already been broken or when it can give her a chance to KO a bulky mon that no other move would be enough damage for. The risk is that Outrage goes into the wrong mon but it’s gotten us out of tight spots throughout this run. Even when Outrage does go into the undesired mon it still does a ton of damage to pretty much anyone but this usually means Sasha dies.
Scizor (TowerBoog):
TowerBoog is meant to be the failsafe of the team. He immediately crushes the biggest threats to the leads with BulletPunch, those being super-fast or QuickClaw holding Ice types. All-around he beats nearly every mon in the game, and deals with a large amount of sets that would be otherwise problematic to hyper-aggressive teams. BugBite beats walls like Cresselia/Blissey/the Slowbro Duo and his Steel typing grants him immunity to Toxic on DoubleTeam stallers like Shuckle. His only legitimate threat is Fire types. Being 4x weak means a Fire type move is an instant kill even from the weakest of mons, which can be scary without Protect or the ability to swap out after Thunda dies. Many a run has been lost to a surprise Flamethrower coming from an otherwise completely unthreatening mon like Weezing which eventually caused us to change from an even more aggressive ChoiceBand variant of TowerBoog to this Roost/OccaBerry variant.
Swampert (SwampMan):
SwampMan is mostly on this team for his Water/Ground typing. Water allows him to deal with the Fire threats to TowerBoog and Ground grants him immunity to the Discharge he so often swaps into. He is also very useful to counter any Steel types with his own Earthquake. His 4x Grass type weakness occasionally comes up but since SwampMan wasn’t the team’s carry it usually wasn’t that much of a problem. His main weakness is his speed which meant he couldn’t prevent himself or TowerBoog from taking a super effective attack in a pinch. One scenario where he is our win condition is against Slaking with SwampMan’s inclusion of Protect. Slaking is bulky and can know both Blizzard and Flamethrower which is a threat to the rest of the team. Slaking can never hit SwampMan though, as long as he Protects on every attacking turn, completely negating any threat he poses. On the few occasions where TrickRoom is not prevented, SwampMan is a good switch in for Sasha since he sometimes underspeeds opponents and can stall out turns with Protect. All in all we think this slot could use the most improvement and we’re open to any suggestions from the community.
Thunda primarily locks into Discharge to pair with Sasha’s Earthquake and defeat the opponent’s mons before they ever get a chance to move. Discharge also drops a 30% paralyze chance on any opponent’s mon it hits which can cripple otherwise threatening sets. Although locked into Discharge most of the time, there are a myriad of specific scenarios that necessitated each individual move otherwise included in the set. HeatWave is the best attempt at dealing with the Ice type threats to Sasha, but there are very few Ice types which are OHKO’ed by it so it often requires coordination with Sasha to effectively deal with said threat. Secondarily, HeatWave is often used when both opponents’ leads are resistant/immune to both Electric/Ice or when Sasha will already do enough damage to both opponents and we need only to ensure breaking any FocusSashes/getting through any Berries. HiddenPowerIce hits Dragon threats to Sasha like the Lati duo and Ground types like Rhydon/Rhyperior. Thunderbolt’s slot has changed a few times but this last iteration is by far the most effective. The inclusion of Thunderbolt allows Thunda to OHKO bulky Water threats he couldn’t otherwise like the Slowbro Duo, Lapras, Walrein, Wailord, and others. It also comes up when we cannot allow the second mon to get hit by a Discharge, i.e. Electivire. His weaknesses include having to hold the ChoiceScarf to deal with speedier mons and therefore not being able to change moves post-Turn 1, his weakness to Ice creating unpredictability with opponent move choice next to Sasha and meaning they are both threatened by a Blizzard, and because he doesn’t hit all that hard he is susceptible to return KO’s from mons with high damage Rock/Ice moves.
Garchomp (Sasha):
Sasha is the main carry of this team. She is fast and hits hard. Her Earthquake wins most games by pairing with Thunda’s Discharge to double KO their opponents before they ever have a chance to move. Because of her power and fragility due to her 4x Ice weakness she carries the FocusSash. This increases her longevity and ensures she gets a move off against faster opponents/QuickClaw abusers, it also gives her protection against OHKO moves that manage to hit. RockSlide counters Flying types Earthquake doesn’t touch and is super effective against Ice types. It also drops a flinch chance, which when paired with Thunda, gives an already paralyzed mon only ~50% of moving that turn. DragonClaw is used against Dragon types or when she doesn’t want to commit to anything else and just put some damage down. Outrage is our panic button. She clicks it when her FocusSash has already been broken or when it can give her a chance to KO a bulky mon that no other move would be enough damage for. The risk is that Outrage goes into the wrong mon but it’s gotten us out of tight spots throughout this run. Even when Outrage does go into the undesired mon it still does a ton of damage to pretty much anyone but this usually means Sasha dies.
Scizor (TowerBoog):
TowerBoog is meant to be the failsafe of the team. He immediately crushes the biggest threats to the leads with BulletPunch, those being super-fast or QuickClaw holding Ice types. All-around he beats nearly every mon in the game, and deals with a large amount of sets that would be otherwise problematic to hyper-aggressive teams. BugBite beats walls like Cresselia/Blissey/the Slowbro Duo and his Steel typing grants him immunity to Toxic on DoubleTeam stallers like Shuckle. His only legitimate threat is Fire types. Being 4x weak means a Fire type move is an instant kill even from the weakest of mons, which can be scary without Protect or the ability to swap out after Thunda dies. Many a run has been lost to a surprise Flamethrower coming from an otherwise completely unthreatening mon like Weezing which eventually caused us to change from an even more aggressive ChoiceBand variant of TowerBoog to this Roost/OccaBerry variant.
Swampert (SwampMan):
SwampMan is mostly on this team for his Water/Ground typing. Water allows him to deal with the Fire threats to TowerBoog and Ground grants him immunity to the Discharge he so often swaps into. He is also very useful to counter any Steel types with his own Earthquake. His 4x Grass type weakness occasionally comes up but since SwampMan wasn’t the team’s carry it usually wasn’t that much of a problem. His main weakness is his speed which meant he couldn’t prevent himself or TowerBoog from taking a super effective attack in a pinch. One scenario where he is our win condition is against Slaking with SwampMan’s inclusion of Protect. Slaking is bulky and can know both Blizzard and Flamethrower which is a threat to the rest of the team. Slaking can never hit SwampMan though, as long as he Protects on every attacking turn, completely negating any threat he poses. On the few occasions where TrickRoom is not prevented, SwampMan is a good switch in for Sasha since he sometimes underspeeds opponents and can stall out turns with Protect. All in all we think this slot could use the most improvement and we’re open to any suggestions from the community.
Turn 0: Opponent leads Golem and Abomasnow
This lead is immediately threatening. Golem is a known QuickClaw abuser usually clicking Explosion or StoneEdge, and Abomasnow is the only single mon in the game capable of killing Sasha Turn 1 due to Hail. We consider Abomasnow one of, if not the most, threatening mon against our lead with his 100% accurate Blizzard/Hail combo. Further increasing his threat level, Abomasnow has been known to hold both the FocusSash and the OccaBerry. If he’s holding the OccaBerry we know from previous battles that HeatWave plus Earthquake won’t be enough to kill and we cannot afford to leave both opponents alive, take a double Blizzard, and risk freeze/KO chances. We decide that a Blizzard from Abomasnow is worse than anything Golem should do, and so conclude that we need to ensure the KO on Abomasnow.
Turn 1: Thunda clicks HeatWave, Sasha clicks DragonClaw on Abomasnow.
Thunda goes first, HeatWave hits both opponents bringing Golem to ~¾ HP and leaving Abamosnow at 1 with no sign of a Berry or FocusSash, just pure low roll. This is the first sign we’re in trouble. Sasha moves next, with DragonClaw finishing off Abomasnow. Golem then OHKO’s Thunda with StoneEdge. Sasha’s FocusSash is broken by Hail. This is bad. We weren’t expecting Thunda KO’ed this turn. We are forced to swap in TowerBoog knowing an injured Sasha will be unable to click Earthquake. The opponent calmly throws in Mamoswine.
Turn 2: TowerBoog clicks BulletPunch on Golem, Sasha clicks Outrage
TowerBoog goes first, once again the opponent’s mon is left at 1HP with no FocusSash, FocusBand, or Berry. Sasha goes next, and the 50/50 direction of Outrage lands on 1 HP Golem, way over-kill. Mamoswine then uses IceFang, unsurprisingly ending the already weakened Sasha. SwampMan is forced to swap in next to TowerBoog. The opponent, in a callous and emotionless display of cruelty, reveals their final mon: Walrein. Our hearts sink, yet we hold out hope that as he has done countless times before TowerBoog can somehow Roost his way through a sweep.
Turn 3: TowerBoog clicks BulletPunch on Mamoswine, SwampMan clicks Waterfall on Mamoswine
The turn immediately heads south as Mamoswine unexpectedly goes first, using Endure. We can’t help but feel that he has not only read but specifically countered our turn. TowerBoog’s BulletPunch then puts Mamoswine to 1HP. The demon Walrein moves next and in shock we read the words “Walrein used Sheer Cold” and observe as icicles form on our screens indicating a hit. Our mouths drop as SwampMan’s sprite shakes, and we wordlessly observe his health bar drop to 0. It is only at this point that we realize the run is over.
Turn 4: TowerBoog clicks BulletPunch on Mamoswine
TowerBoog kills Mamoswine, then our worst fears are realized as Walrein successfully lands Fissure, his second OHKO in the same number of turns, ending the run.
Discussion:
The opponent’s team was a nightmare from the get-go, and when coupled with the unlucky dice rolls and Walrein landing 2 OHKO moves in a row, we simply couldn’t get on the right side of the battle. We truly feel the myriad of minutiae leading to the loss outcome is so great that any one factor cannot be determined as the true cause, and no change of a single move could guarantee a different outcome. We got caught in a perfect storm.
This lead is immediately threatening. Golem is a known QuickClaw abuser usually clicking Explosion or StoneEdge, and Abomasnow is the only single mon in the game capable of killing Sasha Turn 1 due to Hail. We consider Abomasnow one of, if not the most, threatening mon against our lead with his 100% accurate Blizzard/Hail combo. Further increasing his threat level, Abomasnow has been known to hold both the FocusSash and the OccaBerry. If he’s holding the OccaBerry we know from previous battles that HeatWave plus Earthquake won’t be enough to kill and we cannot afford to leave both opponents alive, take a double Blizzard, and risk freeze/KO chances. We decide that a Blizzard from Abomasnow is worse than anything Golem should do, and so conclude that we need to ensure the KO on Abomasnow.
Turn 1: Thunda clicks HeatWave, Sasha clicks DragonClaw on Abomasnow.
Thunda goes first, HeatWave hits both opponents bringing Golem to ~¾ HP and leaving Abamosnow at 1 with no sign of a Berry or FocusSash, just pure low roll. This is the first sign we’re in trouble. Sasha moves next, with DragonClaw finishing off Abomasnow. Golem then OHKO’s Thunda with StoneEdge. Sasha’s FocusSash is broken by Hail. This is bad. We weren’t expecting Thunda KO’ed this turn. We are forced to swap in TowerBoog knowing an injured Sasha will be unable to click Earthquake. The opponent calmly throws in Mamoswine.
Turn 2: TowerBoog clicks BulletPunch on Golem, Sasha clicks Outrage
TowerBoog goes first, once again the opponent’s mon is left at 1HP with no FocusSash, FocusBand, or Berry. Sasha goes next, and the 50/50 direction of Outrage lands on 1 HP Golem, way over-kill. Mamoswine then uses IceFang, unsurprisingly ending the already weakened Sasha. SwampMan is forced to swap in next to TowerBoog. The opponent, in a callous and emotionless display of cruelty, reveals their final mon: Walrein. Our hearts sink, yet we hold out hope that as he has done countless times before TowerBoog can somehow Roost his way through a sweep.
Turn 3: TowerBoog clicks BulletPunch on Mamoswine, SwampMan clicks Waterfall on Mamoswine
The turn immediately heads south as Mamoswine unexpectedly goes first, using Endure. We can’t help but feel that he has not only read but specifically countered our turn. TowerBoog’s BulletPunch then puts Mamoswine to 1HP. The demon Walrein moves next and in shock we read the words “Walrein used Sheer Cold” and observe as icicles form on our screens indicating a hit. Our mouths drop as SwampMan’s sprite shakes, and we wordlessly observe his health bar drop to 0. It is only at this point that we realize the run is over.
Turn 4: TowerBoog clicks BulletPunch on Mamoswine
TowerBoog kills Mamoswine, then our worst fears are realized as Walrein successfully lands Fissure, his second OHKO in the same number of turns, ending the run.
Discussion:
The opponent’s team was a nightmare from the get-go, and when coupled with the unlucky dice rolls and Walrein landing 2 OHKO moves in a row, we simply couldn’t get on the right side of the battle. We truly feel the myriad of minutiae leading to the loss outcome is so great that any one factor cannot be determined as the true cause, and no change of a single move could guarantee a different outcome. We got caught in a perfect storm.
Attachments
I just got back into grinding the Battle Factory. Today I got a modest 34 wins in Lv. 50 Singles.
Full VOD
Battles 1-7
Not much notable here. I forgot the "lead pivot" strat and instead kept Dry Skin Croagunk in the lead the whole streak. This made 1-6 super quick but #7 got closer than it needed because of their Gligar lead (though still not very close as Aipom easily cleaned).
Battles 8-14
Same as last I led my elevation Pidgeot-2 instead of pivoting the lead slot, thankfully the computer was nice and didn't punish me as much as it could have.
Battles 15-21
Blaziken and Gyarados were my elevations, both strong but somewhat unreliable. I opted for just Gyarados of the two, then Cacturne as my counterpick to their lead Psychic and Omastar as a more reliable hitter. #17 came closer than it needed with some unfortunate confusion selfhits, but otherwise this round was easy. Thorton was quite anticlimactic.
Battles 22-28
Initial pick was Gallade-1, Blaziken-2, Mismagius-2, though I expected to trade the latter away instantly. #22 could have been a loss if Leafeon used Leaf Blade but I got a lucky break there and I snagged Porygon-Z-1, who always got optimal Downloads. In #25 Blaziken was last against Seadra and I correctly used Sunny Day into Solar Beam.
Battles 29-35
Garchomp-2, Milotic-3, Venusaur-3. Figured fast sweeper, tank, bulky setup was a good team balance and I wound up keeping them for the whole round. Garchomp got fucked by ice moves basically every battle but #29-33 were still easy. #34 was an interesting one. I started by double switching versus their elemental puncher Snorlax, set up 2 curse and KOd with an Overgrow Seed Bomb. Their last mon was Shiftry and unfortunately Milotic was out which scored them a free Double Team. I eventually figured the safer strat would be to PP stall its damaging moves by switching and recovering, finally forcing it down to Struggle. #35 was sadly lost -- Garchomp down to a Horn Drill (though the Rhyperior-3 could have used Avalanche to kill anyways), Venusaur frozen by their Porygon2, and Milotic down to a crit. Without the hax I would have had a full HP Milotic against some other Normal-type, of which there were about 10 possible candidates, so who knows.
Let's hope for Gold Print soon
Full VOD
Battles 1-7
Not much notable here. I forgot the "lead pivot" strat and instead kept Dry Skin Croagunk in the lead the whole streak. This made 1-6 super quick but #7 got closer than it needed because of their Gligar lead (though still not very close as Aipom easily cleaned).
Battles 8-14
Same as last I led my elevation Pidgeot-2 instead of pivoting the lead slot, thankfully the computer was nice and didn't punish me as much as it could have.
Battles 15-21
Blaziken and Gyarados were my elevations, both strong but somewhat unreliable. I opted for just Gyarados of the two, then Cacturne as my counterpick to their lead Psychic and Omastar as a more reliable hitter. #17 came closer than it needed with some unfortunate confusion selfhits, but otherwise this round was easy. Thorton was quite anticlimactic.
Battles 22-28
Initial pick was Gallade-1, Blaziken-2, Mismagius-2, though I expected to trade the latter away instantly. #22 could have been a loss if Leafeon used Leaf Blade but I got a lucky break there and I snagged Porygon-Z-1, who always got optimal Downloads. In #25 Blaziken was last against Seadra and I correctly used Sunny Day into Solar Beam.
Battles 29-35
Garchomp-2, Milotic-3, Venusaur-3. Figured fast sweeper, tank, bulky setup was a good team balance and I wound up keeping them for the whole round. Garchomp got fucked by ice moves basically every battle but #29-33 were still easy. #34 was an interesting one. I started by double switching versus their elemental puncher Snorlax, set up 2 curse and KOd with an Overgrow Seed Bomb. Their last mon was Shiftry and unfortunately Milotic was out which scored them a free Double Team. I eventually figured the safer strat would be to PP stall its damaging moves by switching and recovering, finally forcing it down to Struggle. #35 was sadly lost -- Garchomp down to a Horn Drill (though the Rhyperior-3 could have used Avalanche to kill anyways), Venusaur frozen by their Porygon2, and Milotic down to a crit. Without the hax I would have had a full HP Milotic against some other Normal-type, of which there were about 10 possible candidates, so who knows.
Let's hope for Gold Print soon
After posting about my Factory Doubles escapades and learning from Anna says hi that I'm apparently the first person to beat all four Battle Factory formats (that is to say, Singles Level 50 Singles Open Level Doubles Level 50 Doubles Open Level) I was thinking about taking this meme achievement one step further and going for Gold Print on the Multi formats of the Factory. While it was something that I had in the back of my mind, I was hesitant to actually go ahead and buy another Gen IV game because I wasn't sure if it was even worth going for it, considering it's just Doubles but with 4 Pokemon instead of 3. What convinced me that it was different enough that I'd want to go for it was QuentinQuonce's post into Factory Multis, which is definitely worth a read if you want to know more details about how Factory Multis work. As you can tell, I've decided to take on this "challenge" of winning a sextuple of Battle factory Gold Prints and I'm now at 5/6 with my latest streak of 49 wins in Battle Factory Multis LV50
I kept logs of all the battles from Round6 and Round7 on Discord, so I'll just transcribe what I wrote here
I kept logs of all the battles from Round6 and Round7 on Discord, so I'll just transcribe what I wrote here
Heart Gold Draft: Aerodactyl3/Abomasnow3/Quagsire4(Water Absorb)/Nidoking3(Poison Point)/Drifblim3/Lickilicky3
Platinum Draft: Porygon-Z3(Adaptability)/Kangaskhan3/Mr.Mime3/Politoed4(Damp)/Sceptile3/Umbreon4
6-1
I picked Aerodactyl/Quagisre Sceptile/Politoed vs Ground Specialist who led Set2 Gliscor Rhydon
Turn1 Rock Slide broke Sash and Leaf Blade killed Rhydon, Gliscor didn't flinch and used Fire Fang on Sceptile for a bit over half
Turn2 Hypno2 came out and I decided to not risk Rock Slide miss and killed Hypno with Crunch Leaf Blade, then Sceptile died to another Fire Fang
Turn3 Rock Slide missed Gliscor, it used Thunder Fang on Wacan Berry Politoed which paralyzed it but it got through and killed with Ice Beam
Turn4 absol2 came out, Rock Slide didn't flinch, it used Thunder Wave on Aerodactyl and Politoed killed it with Ice Beam
6-2
Ghost Specialist, vs Set2 Lanturn Mr.Mime
Turn1 doubled up on Mr.Mime, it wasn't Filter so it died to Crunch, Leaf Blade missed the range on Lanturn and it paralyzed Aerodactyl
Turn2 Froslass2 came out, doubled up on it, Night Slash didn't crit, it killed Sceptile with Ice Punch and Lanturn wasted its turn by using Thunder Wave aimed at Grovyle but it went into Aerodactyl after Sceptile died, and Froslass fell to Crunch.
Turn3 Lanturn died to Politoed's Psychic
Turn4 Gengar2 came out, missed Hypnosis and died to Psychic
6-3
Swaped Sceptile for Gengar, vs Set3 Torterra Skarmory
Turn1 switched Politoed in for Gengar and got a double Rock Slide flinch
Turn2 I got a double Rock Slide miss, killed Torterra with Ice Beam and Skarmory Night Slash crit Aerodactyl for a bit over half
Turn3 Porygon-Z3 came out and got a Download Attack boost, used Rock Slide with Aerodactyl and died to Charge Beam +1 Special Attack, Hydro Pump missed Porygon-Z and Skarmory flinched
Turn4 Ice Beam left Quagsire on red health, Porygon-Z died to hydro pump, Slash from Skarmory on Politoed, Waterfall on Skarmory
Turn5 Ice Beam killed Skarmory
Turn6 Armaldo3 came out, died to Ice Beam Waterfall after missing Stone Edge
6-4
VS Set2 Weavile Magmortar
Turn1 switched Politoed into Night Slash, Rock Slide missed Weavile but killed Magmortar
Turn2 Crobat2 came out, Night Slash left Politoed on red health, Rock Slide got the double kill
Turn3 Raichu2 came out and Earthquake cleared the field
6-5
Ground Specialist, vs Set2 Garchomp Rhyperior
Turn1 Earthquake Shadow Ball killed Rhyperior, Earthquake crit Garchomp for half, Draco Meteor killed Gengar
Turn2 Whiscash2 came out, Giga Impact killed Garchomp, Hydro Pump on Whiscash for half, and it killed Aerodactyl with Aqua Tail
Turn3 Blastoise2 came out, it used Double Team, Hydro Pump killed Whiscash
Final Turns where me trying to hit a sleeping Aqua RIng Blastoise through Double Team, I eventually won thanks to a Stone Edge crit
6-6
Swapped Politoed for Garchomp, vs Set3 Drifblim Miltank
Turn1 Rock Slide Shadow Ball killed Drifblim, Miltank didn't flinch and used Thunder Punch on Aerodactyl
Turn2 Dugtrio3 came out, I switched Garchomp in but it aimed its Night Slash on Aerodactyl, it must have been a range but Aerodactyl tanked and killed it with Giga Impact before going down to Miltank's Ice Punch
Turn3 Draco Meteor killed Miltank
Turn4 Slowbro3 came out, tanked both Earth Power and Earthquake, Psychic didn't kill Quagsire
Turn5 Garchomp finished it with Earth Power
6-7
Rock Specialist, vs Set4 Shuckle Flygon
Turn1 Crunch Shadow Ball killed Flygon, Shuckle used Double Team
Turn2 Rampardos4 came out, switched Garchomp in, Earthquake got a good crit on Rampardos and Shuckle set up Sandstorm
Turn3 Rock Slide hit Shuckle for half, switched Gengar back in while Shuckle used Double Team
Turn4 Rock Slide killed and Gengar set up Substitute
Turn5 Lapras4 came out and died to Rock Slide Shadow Ball
Platinum Draft: Porygon-Z3(Adaptability)/Kangaskhan3/Mr.Mime3/Politoed4(Damp)/Sceptile3/Umbreon4
6-1
I picked Aerodactyl/Quagisre Sceptile/Politoed vs Ground Specialist who led Set2 Gliscor Rhydon
Turn1 Rock Slide broke Sash and Leaf Blade killed Rhydon, Gliscor didn't flinch and used Fire Fang on Sceptile for a bit over half
Turn2 Hypno2 came out and I decided to not risk Rock Slide miss and killed Hypno with Crunch Leaf Blade, then Sceptile died to another Fire Fang
Turn3 Rock Slide missed Gliscor, it used Thunder Fang on Wacan Berry Politoed which paralyzed it but it got through and killed with Ice Beam
Turn4 absol2 came out, Rock Slide didn't flinch, it used Thunder Wave on Aerodactyl and Politoed killed it with Ice Beam
6-2
Ghost Specialist, vs Set2 Lanturn Mr.Mime
Turn1 doubled up on Mr.Mime, it wasn't Filter so it died to Crunch, Leaf Blade missed the range on Lanturn and it paralyzed Aerodactyl
Turn2 Froslass2 came out, doubled up on it, Night Slash didn't crit, it killed Sceptile with Ice Punch and Lanturn wasted its turn by using Thunder Wave aimed at Grovyle but it went into Aerodactyl after Sceptile died, and Froslass fell to Crunch.
Turn3 Lanturn died to Politoed's Psychic
Turn4 Gengar2 came out, missed Hypnosis and died to Psychic
6-3
Swaped Sceptile for Gengar, vs Set3 Torterra Skarmory
Turn1 switched Politoed in for Gengar and got a double Rock Slide flinch
Turn2 I got a double Rock Slide miss, killed Torterra with Ice Beam and Skarmory Night Slash crit Aerodactyl for a bit over half
Turn3 Porygon-Z3 came out and got a Download Attack boost, used Rock Slide with Aerodactyl and died to Charge Beam +1 Special Attack, Hydro Pump missed Porygon-Z and Skarmory flinched
Turn4 Ice Beam left Quagsire on red health, Porygon-Z died to hydro pump, Slash from Skarmory on Politoed, Waterfall on Skarmory
Turn5 Ice Beam killed Skarmory
Turn6 Armaldo3 came out, died to Ice Beam Waterfall after missing Stone Edge
6-4
VS Set2 Weavile Magmortar
Turn1 switched Politoed into Night Slash, Rock Slide missed Weavile but killed Magmortar
Turn2 Crobat2 came out, Night Slash left Politoed on red health, Rock Slide got the double kill
Turn3 Raichu2 came out and Earthquake cleared the field
6-5
Ground Specialist, vs Set2 Garchomp Rhyperior
Turn1 Earthquake Shadow Ball killed Rhyperior, Earthquake crit Garchomp for half, Draco Meteor killed Gengar
Turn2 Whiscash2 came out, Giga Impact killed Garchomp, Hydro Pump on Whiscash for half, and it killed Aerodactyl with Aqua Tail
Turn3 Blastoise2 came out, it used Double Team, Hydro Pump killed Whiscash
Final Turns where me trying to hit a sleeping Aqua RIng Blastoise through Double Team, I eventually won thanks to a Stone Edge crit
6-6
Swapped Politoed for Garchomp, vs Set3 Drifblim Miltank
Turn1 Rock Slide Shadow Ball killed Drifblim, Miltank didn't flinch and used Thunder Punch on Aerodactyl
Turn2 Dugtrio3 came out, I switched Garchomp in but it aimed its Night Slash on Aerodactyl, it must have been a range but Aerodactyl tanked and killed it with Giga Impact before going down to Miltank's Ice Punch
Turn3 Draco Meteor killed Miltank
Turn4 Slowbro3 came out, tanked both Earth Power and Earthquake, Psychic didn't kill Quagsire
Turn5 Garchomp finished it with Earth Power
6-7
Rock Specialist, vs Set4 Shuckle Flygon
Turn1 Crunch Shadow Ball killed Flygon, Shuckle used Double Team
Turn2 Rampardos4 came out, switched Garchomp in, Earthquake got a good crit on Rampardos and Shuckle set up Sandstorm
Turn3 Rock Slide hit Shuckle for half, switched Gengar back in while Shuckle used Double Team
Turn4 Rock Slide killed and Gengar set up Substitute
Turn5 Lapras4 came out and died to Rock Slide Shadow Ball
Heart Gold Draft: Milotic4/Steelix4/Gardevoir3/Regigigas2/Forretress4/Togekiss4(Serene Grace)
Platinum Draft: Raikou2/Victreebel3/Mr.Mime4/Whiscash4/Lucario4/Bronzong4(Levitate)
7-1
I picked Milotic/Steelix Lucario/Bronzong vs Set3 Weavile Lopunny
Turn1 switched Bronzong in, Night Slash did less than half on Milotic, Focus Blast went into Bronzong, Ice Beam into Lopunny
Turn2 Night Slash on Bronzong Focus Blast on Milotic, Dragon Pulse broke Weavile's Sash and Lopunny died to Iron Head
Turn3 Scizor3 came out, I switched Steelix in, they doubled up with Night Slash X-Scissor and killed Bronzong
Turn4 Scizor used Quick Attack on Lucario, I used Psychic on Scizor (to not put it into Endure range) and Gyro Ball killed Weavile which was using counter since it was going last
Turn5 Flygon3 came out, I tried to end it with Explosion, didn't get the Quick Claw and Flygon targeted Steelix with Earth Power, thankfully Lucario got the Aura Sphere kill on Scizor to give me a fighting chance
Turn6 needed Flygon to choose Lucario as kill target, it did, and died to Milotic's Ice Beam
7-2
Normal Specialist, vs Set4 Tyranitar Tauros(Anger Point)
Turn1 is interesting in regards to Smart AI Spread Move usage, I banked on Tauros clicking Earthquake vs kill target Lucario and switched Bronzong in, it didn't do that and used return on Milotic, I used Surf and Tyranitar chose to use Earthquake vs kill target Lucario, Milotic died but so did Tauros thanks to Surf + Earthquake + Sandstorm damage
Turn2 Shuckle4 came out, I double targeted Tyranitar with Iron Head and Earthquake, killed it while it used Dragon Dance, Shuckle set up Sub, it could do nothing to any of my remaining 3 Pokemon
Turn3 Kangaskhan4 came out, I double targeted with Iron Head Earthquake and it Crunched Bronzong while Shuckle used Double Team
Turn4 another Crunch on Bronzong then it died to another Iron Head Earthquakem Shuckle Double Team
Final Turns where me trying to kill Shuckle through Substitute Double Team
7-3
Swap Milotic for Tauros, vs Set3 Lopunny Jolteon
Turn1 switched Bronzong into Thunder paralysis for half, Lopunny died to Return
Turn2 Houndoom3 came out, Thunder missed, Return killed Jolteon, Flamethrower killed Bronzong
Turn3 Poliwrath3 came out, Return killed Houndoom, Psychic on Poliwrath doesn't kill, Focus Blast kills Tauros
Turn4 Lucario finishes Poliwrath off
7-4
Water Specialist, swapped Steelix for Jolteon, vs Set3 Lapras Glaceon
Turn1 doubled up on Glaceon for the kill while Lapras used Dragon Dance
Turn2 Infernape3 came out, Tauros killled it with Return, Aura Sphere didn't kill Lapras, Waterfall didn't kill Lucario
Turn3 switched Tauros out to unlock Choice Band for last Pokemon, Aura Sphere killed Lapras
Turn4 Wailord3 came out and died to Thunder
7-5
Swapped Jolteon for Infernape, vs Set3 Sceptile Gyarados
Turn1 Leaf Blade on Tauros for less than half, Stone Edge Psychic kills Gyarados
Turn2 Flygon3 came out, I double switched, Leaf Blade missed Infernape and it tanked a Draco Meteor
Turn3 Infernape down to Aerial Ace, Flygon used Earth Powers into Bronzong Levitate, Iron Head on Flygon for half
Turn4 Tauros died to crit Leaf Blade, Draco Meteor crit Bronzong for half and Flygon died to another Iron Head
Turn5-6 I saw that 78 health zong wouldn't die to 2 X-Scissors without a crit, tried to preserve Quick Claw Explosion but I got crit turn2, it probably didn't matter because I put him into Overgrow anyways
Turn7 Lucario took a Leaf Blade for Half and killed Sceptile
Turn8 Hypno3 came out and I needed to crit for the win, and I did crit for the win!
7-6
Poison Specialist, swapped Infernape for Gyarados, vs Set3 Weezing Rampardos
Turn1 used Return on Weezing Aura Sphere killed Rampardos, Sludge Bomb on Tauros for half
Turn2 Rhyperior3 came out, I killed weezing with another return and brought Counter using Rhyperior down to Sash
Turn3 Venusaur3 came out, Return didn't get the range, Rhyperior died to Aura Sphere and Tauros died to Seed Bomb
Turn4 Venusaur died to Lucario
7-7
Bug Specialist, vs Forretress Armaldo
Turn1 I ruled out Forretress4 Armaldo3,4 with Item Clause and decided to double Switch because Armaldo1 would use Earthquake for Lucario kill but Armaldo2 could potentially Swagger on Persim Berry Gyarados and Forretress was pretty much a complete non-factor, turned out I was fighting Armaldo2 Forretress1, Swagger went into Bronzong and Foretress used Bug Bite to steal my precious Persim Berry and foil my plans
Turn2 switched Lucario back in, Waterfall didn't kill Armaldo, it used Swagger on Gyarados, Bug Bite went on Lucario
Turn3 switched Tauros back in, killed Armaldo with Aura sphere and Forretress used Counter
Turn4 Abomasnow? came out and died to Return Aura Sphere, Counter into nothing
Turn5 Return Aura Sphere kill Forretress
Turn6 Dusknoir comes out, switch Tauros out, Shadow Ball doesn't kill, Brick Break into Lucario
Turn7 another Shadow Ball wins me the Gold Print!
Platinum Draft: Raikou2/Victreebel3/Mr.Mime4/Whiscash4/Lucario4/Bronzong4(Levitate)
7-1
I picked Milotic/Steelix Lucario/Bronzong vs Set3 Weavile Lopunny
Turn1 switched Bronzong in, Night Slash did less than half on Milotic, Focus Blast went into Bronzong, Ice Beam into Lopunny
Turn2 Night Slash on Bronzong Focus Blast on Milotic, Dragon Pulse broke Weavile's Sash and Lopunny died to Iron Head
Turn3 Scizor3 came out, I switched Steelix in, they doubled up with Night Slash X-Scissor and killed Bronzong
Turn4 Scizor used Quick Attack on Lucario, I used Psychic on Scizor (to not put it into Endure range) and Gyro Ball killed Weavile which was using counter since it was going last
Turn5 Flygon3 came out, I tried to end it with Explosion, didn't get the Quick Claw and Flygon targeted Steelix with Earth Power, thankfully Lucario got the Aura Sphere kill on Scizor to give me a fighting chance
Turn6 needed Flygon to choose Lucario as kill target, it did, and died to Milotic's Ice Beam
7-2
Normal Specialist, vs Set4 Tyranitar Tauros(Anger Point)
Turn1 is interesting in regards to Smart AI Spread Move usage, I banked on Tauros clicking Earthquake vs kill target Lucario and switched Bronzong in, it didn't do that and used return on Milotic, I used Surf and Tyranitar chose to use Earthquake vs kill target Lucario, Milotic died but so did Tauros thanks to Surf + Earthquake + Sandstorm damage
Turn2 Shuckle4 came out, I double targeted Tyranitar with Iron Head and Earthquake, killed it while it used Dragon Dance, Shuckle set up Sub, it could do nothing to any of my remaining 3 Pokemon
Turn3 Kangaskhan4 came out, I double targeted with Iron Head Earthquake and it Crunched Bronzong while Shuckle used Double Team
Turn4 another Crunch on Bronzong then it died to another Iron Head Earthquakem Shuckle Double Team
Final Turns where me trying to kill Shuckle through Substitute Double Team
7-3
Swap Milotic for Tauros, vs Set3 Lopunny Jolteon
Turn1 switched Bronzong into Thunder paralysis for half, Lopunny died to Return
Turn2 Houndoom3 came out, Thunder missed, Return killed Jolteon, Flamethrower killed Bronzong
Turn3 Poliwrath3 came out, Return killed Houndoom, Psychic on Poliwrath doesn't kill, Focus Blast kills Tauros
Turn4 Lucario finishes Poliwrath off
7-4
Water Specialist, swapped Steelix for Jolteon, vs Set3 Lapras Glaceon
Turn1 doubled up on Glaceon for the kill while Lapras used Dragon Dance
Turn2 Infernape3 came out, Tauros killled it with Return, Aura Sphere didn't kill Lapras, Waterfall didn't kill Lucario
Turn3 switched Tauros out to unlock Choice Band for last Pokemon, Aura Sphere killed Lapras
Turn4 Wailord3 came out and died to Thunder
7-5
Swapped Jolteon for Infernape, vs Set3 Sceptile Gyarados
Turn1 Leaf Blade on Tauros for less than half, Stone Edge Psychic kills Gyarados
Turn2 Flygon3 came out, I double switched, Leaf Blade missed Infernape and it tanked a Draco Meteor
Turn3 Infernape down to Aerial Ace, Flygon used Earth Powers into Bronzong Levitate, Iron Head on Flygon for half
Turn4 Tauros died to crit Leaf Blade, Draco Meteor crit Bronzong for half and Flygon died to another Iron Head
Turn5-6 I saw that 78 health zong wouldn't die to 2 X-Scissors without a crit, tried to preserve Quick Claw Explosion but I got crit turn2, it probably didn't matter because I put him into Overgrow anyways
Turn7 Lucario took a Leaf Blade for Half and killed Sceptile
Turn8 Hypno3 came out and I needed to crit for the win, and I did crit for the win!
7-6
Poison Specialist, swapped Infernape for Gyarados, vs Set3 Weezing Rampardos
Turn1 used Return on Weezing Aura Sphere killed Rampardos, Sludge Bomb on Tauros for half
Turn2 Rhyperior3 came out, I killed weezing with another return and brought Counter using Rhyperior down to Sash
Turn3 Venusaur3 came out, Return didn't get the range, Rhyperior died to Aura Sphere and Tauros died to Seed Bomb
Turn4 Venusaur died to Lucario
7-7
Bug Specialist, vs Forretress Armaldo
Turn1 I ruled out Forretress4 Armaldo3,4 with Item Clause and decided to double Switch because Armaldo1 would use Earthquake for Lucario kill but Armaldo2 could potentially Swagger on Persim Berry Gyarados and Forretress was pretty much a complete non-factor, turned out I was fighting Armaldo2 Forretress1, Swagger went into Bronzong and Foretress used Bug Bite to steal my precious Persim Berry and foil my plans
Turn2 switched Lucario back in, Waterfall didn't kill Armaldo, it used Swagger on Gyarados, Bug Bite went on Lucario
Turn3 switched Tauros back in, killed Armaldo with Aura sphere and Forretress used Counter
Turn4 Abomasnow? came out and died to Return Aura Sphere, Counter into nothing
Turn5 Return Aura Sphere kill Forretress
Turn6 Dusknoir comes out, switch Tauros out, Shadow Ball doesn't kill, Brick Break into Lucario
Turn7 another Shadow Ball wins me the Gold Print!
Heart Gold Draft: Entei4/Houndoom1/Altaria3/Mamoswine1/Hypno3/Gallade1
Platinum Draft: Poyrgon2(2)/Arcanine2(Flash Fire)/Victreebel3/Ursaring2/Shuckle3/Typhlosion3
8-1
VS Water Specialist, I picked Hypno/Mamoswine Arcanine2/Poyrgon2, my logic was Hypno3 can slowly whittle things down while Arcanine buys a Turn with Endure and then potentially kills something with Reversal, probably should have compromised and not picked Arcanine or Mamoswine, but my drafts were not great. At the very least I should have switched Arcanine back into Porygon2 to eat the Fire Blast, but I'm not too disappointed, that was a pretty fast clear and didn't take many attempts
Platinum Draft: Poyrgon2(2)/Arcanine2(Flash Fire)/Victreebel3/Ursaring2/Shuckle3/Typhlosion3
8-1
VS Water Specialist, I picked Hypno/Mamoswine Arcanine2/Poyrgon2, my logic was Hypno3 can slowly whittle things down while Arcanine buys a Turn with Endure and then potentially kills something with Reversal, probably should have compromised and not picked Arcanine or Mamoswine, but my drafts were not great. At the very least I should have switched Arcanine back into Porygon2 to eat the Fire Blast, but I'm not too disappointed, that was a pretty fast clear and didn't take many attempts
Now there's only one Gold Print left, but I'm probably going back to Battle Hall again, not quite sure right now. I'd also like to say something that I've expressed on the Discord Server as well, that I think this is easier than Doubles if not necessarily because it's 4v4, definitely because of 12 Pokemon Drafts and also I've noticed that I tend to get hints from the assistant far more often which can sometimes make my life easier. Closing by saying that Battle Factory is awesome, I'm glad I decided to play Doubles and now Multis and enjoy all the different formats this game has to offer, even if sometimes it makes me want to break my DS (looking at you Open Doubles, hopefully Open Multis won't be quite as impossible)
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QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
Very nice work! Stoked to see someone get further than my record, even more impressive that you managed it on level 50.
(also random question, why am I not getting notifications from being tagged in posts, Smogon Forums)
I'm still planning to go back to this at some point to investigate the curiosity discussed earlier in the thread...
...so I really must make that a priority.
I have updated the thread. Please let me know if I've made any mistakes and I'll fix them.
ANNOUNCEMENT
I am now officially going to allow for emulator streaks to be listed on the leaderboards.
This has been a long time coming. I have resisted allowing emulators for reasons I've explained earlier in the thread, but I think it is no longer practical to maintain this rule. HGSS is turning 15 soon and retails copies are becoming harder and harder for many people to access, and I have also had numerous people tell me that they would be more interested in playing 4th gen and maybe going for streaks if emulators were allowed. My hope is that allowing emulators will open up the leaderboards to more people.
Given that the 3rd gen thread already allows emulator play, I will be using their criteria for leaderboard requirements:
I'm also not going to retrospectively add any emulator streaks from earlier in the thread, so if you submitted anything previously and would like to be added, please resubmit your record and I will add it.
ANNOUNCEMENT
I am now officially going to allow for emulator streaks to be listed on the leaderboards.
This has been a long time coming. I have resisted allowing emulators for reasons I've explained earlier in the thread, but I think it is no longer practical to maintain this rule. HGSS is turning 15 soon and retails copies are becoming harder and harder for many people to access, and I have also had numerous people tell me that they would be more interested in playing 4th gen and maybe going for streaks if emulators were allowed. My hope is that allowing emulators will open up the leaderboards to more people.
Given that the 3rd gen thread already allows emulator play, I will be using their criteria for leaderboard requirements:
If you are submitting a record from this point on, please indicate whether the streak is on retail or emulator so I can mark these accordingly - I will not add any record that does not do this.
I'm also not going to retrospectively add any emulator streaks from earlier in the thread, so if you submitted anything previously and would like to be added, please resubmit your record and I will add it.
Nothing particularly spectacular but wanted to report a 154 win streak in HGSS Battle Tower singles (on cart). Was my first attempt with this full team, originally only made it for the trainer star but wanted to push as far as I could before inevitably getting either team diffed or unlucky; latter ended up happening.
Ended up losing to Veteran Costin (?) [edit: apparently these mons are actually on ace trainer charlie]. Porygon-Z lead is a bit annoying, as Latios can only Trick it and can't Memento; Ends up being P-Z 4 (Expert Belt + Shadow Ball). I go to Scizor and prepare the "standard protocol" (mix of Sub + SD until I have sub and +6), but I get an instant SpDef drop that means Shadow Ball OHKOes the Sub, so the best I can do is +6 without a Sub; that would be until I get crit from 80 HP and faint before doing any damage. Garchomp comes in and takes ~35 from Shadow Ball as it Subs, meaning I can get an SD and pray for no priority or things I can't KO; P-Z and the subsequent Houndoom go down, but the last mon ends up being Tangrowth, which Outrage doesn't OHKO and I lose.
Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
IVs: 19 HP / 2 Atk / 18 Def / 30 SpD
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
Timid Nature
- Flash
- Luster Purge
- Memento
- Trick
This set was largely born out of not wanting to remove the build on Latias I already had, and then realizing this had Memento. Always leads Trick, will usually also get the Memento against slow leads (barring something like Scizor or Armaldo lead), and against faster leads like Latias, P-Z, and opposing Latios, it can ensure that they're locked into a move that Scizor resists. Flash was only clicked a couple of times to help stall Stone Edges safely. Luster Purge is literally a dead moveslot; I got this Latios long before even considering the Tower, so this didn't come with HP Fire or Ground for lead Metagross, and I never bothered to teach it Thunder Wave since I thought i'd never be clicking it.
Scizor (M) @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Atk / 100 Spe
Ability: Technician
Shiny: Yes
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
My preferred sweeper. Takes advantage of the moves Latios usually baits in (Dragon Pulse, Shadow Ball, Ice Beam / Punch, etc) and, barring bad luck, uses them as setup fodder. While Registeel would be technically better in that role, I wanted this team to be fast, and I don't have Platinum to actually get Registeel. 100 Speed is for Heatran (of which I encountered one, around the mid-70s). Not really much to talk about here besides it soloing 90% of teams and only really having to fall back on Garchomp due to a Thunder Wave / Will-O-Wisp lead.
Garchomp (M) @ Lum Berry
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Ability: Sand Veil
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
This team originally had a Sub/Acupressure Drapion in this slot, but after bringing it, never using it, and being flattened by Meteor Mash Metagross at about 30 wins last time, Garchomp stepped in. This usually only comes in if Scizor fails the sweep or if the opposing lead is locked into Wisp or TWave, since Scizor is safer to set up on the majority of things encountered.
My question here would thus be how to improve this team (other than just getting a better Latios obviously). Should I drop some or all of Scizor's Speed for SpDef to handle stuff like Latias better (which I was frozen for 15 consecutive turns by!! but with Leftovers + Chomp in the back I managed to win that one)? Should Latios be replaced with some better Trick + Memento user that can more reliably get Memento off against fast attacking leads like the Latis? Should Garchomp be ditched for another Steel? Mostly unsure.
Ended up losing to Veteran Costin (?) [edit: apparently these mons are actually on ace trainer charlie]. Porygon-Z lead is a bit annoying, as Latios can only Trick it and can't Memento; Ends up being P-Z 4 (Expert Belt + Shadow Ball). I go to Scizor and prepare the "standard protocol" (mix of Sub + SD until I have sub and +6), but I get an instant SpDef drop that means Shadow Ball OHKOes the Sub, so the best I can do is +6 without a Sub; that would be until I get crit from 80 HP and faint before doing any damage. Garchomp comes in and takes ~35 from Shadow Ball as it Subs, meaning I can get an SD and pray for no priority or things I can't KO; P-Z and the subsequent Houndoom go down, but the last mon ends up being Tangrowth, which Outrage doesn't OHKO and I lose.
Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
IVs: 19 HP / 2 Atk / 18 Def / 30 SpD
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
Timid Nature
- Flash
- Luster Purge
- Memento
- Trick
This set was largely born out of not wanting to remove the build on Latias I already had, and then realizing this had Memento. Always leads Trick, will usually also get the Memento against slow leads (barring something like Scizor or Armaldo lead), and against faster leads like Latias, P-Z, and opposing Latios, it can ensure that they're locked into a move that Scizor resists. Flash was only clicked a couple of times to help stall Stone Edges safely. Luster Purge is literally a dead moveslot; I got this Latios long before even considering the Tower, so this didn't come with HP Fire or Ground for lead Metagross, and I never bothered to teach it Thunder Wave since I thought i'd never be clicking it.
Scizor (M) @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Atk / 100 Spe
Ability: Technician
Shiny: Yes
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
My preferred sweeper. Takes advantage of the moves Latios usually baits in (Dragon Pulse, Shadow Ball, Ice Beam / Punch, etc) and, barring bad luck, uses them as setup fodder. While Registeel would be technically better in that role, I wanted this team to be fast, and I don't have Platinum to actually get Registeel. 100 Speed is for Heatran (of which I encountered one, around the mid-70s). Not really much to talk about here besides it soloing 90% of teams and only really having to fall back on Garchomp due to a Thunder Wave / Will-O-Wisp lead.
Garchomp (M) @ Lum Berry
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Ability: Sand Veil
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
This team originally had a Sub/Acupressure Drapion in this slot, but after bringing it, never using it, and being flattened by Meteor Mash Metagross at about 30 wins last time, Garchomp stepped in. This usually only comes in if Scizor fails the sweep or if the opposing lead is locked into Wisp or TWave, since Scizor is safer to set up on the majority of things encountered.
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Nothing special but 13ish years later I'm reporting a PtHGSS Battle Tower Multi (In-Game Partner) (Cartridge) streak of 53.
This is smaller than the streak I posted before, but due to some self-inflicted holes in the team and very slack plays on my part, I think it has the potential (particularly Latios) to do a lot better in case anyone wants to try (parts of) it out.
This was probably way too much detail for an uninspiring record. The short version is specs Latios is really good and could probably do well with a more bulky pivot and damage calcs.
This is smaller than the streak I posted before, but due to some self-inflicted holes in the team and very slack plays on my part, I think it has the potential (particularly Latios) to do a lot better in case anyone wants to try (parts of) it out.
The purpose of this team was to carry my event Weavile and give it a ribbon. Rather than use a different team for the first 49 battles, I foolishly thought it would be a fun challenge to see if I can use Weavile for the whole thing.
Trebor (Latios) (M) @ Choice Specs
IVs: I can't remember anything except 31 Spe
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Timid Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Shadow ball
A strong mint.
I RNGed this ages ago mainly for singles and decided this was the best thing I had to do as much work as possible in multi battles on its own. It's role was pretty straightforward, outspeed and one-shot as much as possible, preferrably wiping out one trainer before piling on the other.
Initially, it held a life orb, but the amount of 'almost KOs' was quite frustrating and I realised specs had more potential, especially later on for clean wins.
Dragon Pulse and Thunderbolt were by far the most common moves used. STAB, Specs neutral Dragon Pulse is enough to one shot quite a lot in the tower. Thunderbolt was especially handy since there are quite a lot of flying and water types, and very convenient for wiping out one trainer if that's their 'theme' e.g. fisherman. It was also very important for hitting scary Lapras, Walrein and Dewgong as hard as possible.
Psychic was useful early on, but there are fewer poison and fighting types later on so maybe this is replacable. Maybe keeping ice beam would be preferrable to deal with the occasional scary gliscor (though conveniently latios seems to attract U-Turn from 'that' Gliscor).
The last slot was initially surf in an early attempt, but the only time I used it was alongside Mira's Exeggutor, so I replaced it with ice beam, which pretty much never got used, and finally settled on shadow ball when an opponent sent out a dusknoir and I was scared it would use trick room (it didn't, but I decided to use shadow ball after that to improve my chances against that and bulky psychics that might be TR setters)
One lesson I learned during this was it's often better to use STAB Dragonpulse over a SE coverage move if both moves KO, as Dragon Pulse would give better coverage later. It can be difficult not to opt for 'maximum damage'.
If it was locked in a bad move, it could sometimes switch into Weavile who could take some incoming dark, ghost and ice hits.
A downside of Latios (imo) is it often has poor synergy with Mira who I consider to be the most reliable partner. This may be a 'grass is greener' thing on my part though while I've been dealing with Riley's more erratic sets.
Another small thing is my Latios has a high but not perfect SpA IV which may have led it to miss out on a few KOs. Style has a price I guess.
Weavile (M) @ Focus sash
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Att / 252 Spe
Ability: Pressure
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Ice Shard
- Night Slash
- Brick Break
This is the Weavile that was given away during the VGC 09 World championships. I thought "Wouldn't it be neat if I can do this without changing the moveset". It's not very good as it lacks damage.
Fake out is quite potent when there is only one opponent left. Stalling a turn is handy both because you might be relying on your partner for firepower, but also if your partner wants to do a pointless setup/support move.
Ice shard wasn't used very often but nice for chip damage on fast things like Crobat, Aerodactyl, potential quick claw users and can do good damage to dragons if they're somehow still around after a Latios rampage.
Night slash was by far the most used move, being the only decent damage STAB, but it was still mostly used for chipping away at things. I can recall one time when it one shot a Gengar which was nice, though.
Brick break wasn't very useful, aside from hitting something like an ice type harder after switching Latios out. It was somewhat comforting to have in case a Blissey came in and I was partnered with Mira, but even in this edge case it's not much better than a Night Slash.
Ice Punch was sorely missed in this set and there were multiple times it would have been handy for cleaner wins, my loss included.
Another potentially handy move might have been protect, as once Weavile is knocked to its sash, it's a bit of a magnet for the opponent's AI and could stall an extra turn but I doubt that's useful over a damaging move.
As mentioned, Weavile has good type synergy for switching with Latios but is still very frail so it's role as a pivot is limited.
Trebor (Latios) (M) @ Choice Specs
IVs: I can't remember anything except 31 Spe
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Timid Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Shadow ball
A strong mint.
I RNGed this ages ago mainly for singles and decided this was the best thing I had to do as much work as possible in multi battles on its own. It's role was pretty straightforward, outspeed and one-shot as much as possible, preferrably wiping out one trainer before piling on the other.
Initially, it held a life orb, but the amount of 'almost KOs' was quite frustrating and I realised specs had more potential, especially later on for clean wins.
Dragon Pulse and Thunderbolt were by far the most common moves used. STAB, Specs neutral Dragon Pulse is enough to one shot quite a lot in the tower. Thunderbolt was especially handy since there are quite a lot of flying and water types, and very convenient for wiping out one trainer if that's their 'theme' e.g. fisherman. It was also very important for hitting scary Lapras, Walrein and Dewgong as hard as possible.
Psychic was useful early on, but there are fewer poison and fighting types later on so maybe this is replacable. Maybe keeping ice beam would be preferrable to deal with the occasional scary gliscor (though conveniently latios seems to attract U-Turn from 'that' Gliscor).
The last slot was initially surf in an early attempt, but the only time I used it was alongside Mira's Exeggutor, so I replaced it with ice beam, which pretty much never got used, and finally settled on shadow ball when an opponent sent out a dusknoir and I was scared it would use trick room (it didn't, but I decided to use shadow ball after that to improve my chances against that and bulky psychics that might be TR setters)
One lesson I learned during this was it's often better to use STAB Dragonpulse over a SE coverage move if both moves KO, as Dragon Pulse would give better coverage later. It can be difficult not to opt for 'maximum damage'.
If it was locked in a bad move, it could sometimes switch into Weavile who could take some incoming dark, ghost and ice hits.
A downside of Latios (imo) is it often has poor synergy with Mira who I consider to be the most reliable partner. This may be a 'grass is greener' thing on my part though while I've been dealing with Riley's more erratic sets.
Another small thing is my Latios has a high but not perfect SpA IV which may have led it to miss out on a few KOs. Style has a price I guess.
Weavile (M) @ Focus sash
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Att / 252 Spe
Ability: Pressure
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Ice Shard
- Night Slash
- Brick Break
This is the Weavile that was given away during the VGC 09 World championships. I thought "Wouldn't it be neat if I can do this without changing the moveset". It's not very good as it lacks damage.
Fake out is quite potent when there is only one opponent left. Stalling a turn is handy both because you might be relying on your partner for firepower, but also if your partner wants to do a pointless setup/support move.
Ice shard wasn't used very often but nice for chip damage on fast things like Crobat, Aerodactyl, potential quick claw users and can do good damage to dragons if they're somehow still around after a Latios rampage.
Night slash was by far the most used move, being the only decent damage STAB, but it was still mostly used for chipping away at things. I can recall one time when it one shot a Gengar which was nice, though.
Brick break wasn't very useful, aside from hitting something like an ice type harder after switching Latios out. It was somewhat comforting to have in case a Blissey came in and I was partnered with Mira, but even in this edge case it's not much better than a Night Slash.
Ice Punch was sorely missed in this set and there were multiple times it would have been handy for cleaner wins, my loss included.
Another potentially handy move might have been protect, as once Weavile is knocked to its sash, it's a bit of a magnet for the opponent's AI and could stall an extra turn but I doubt that's useful over a damaging move.
As mentioned, Weavile has good type synergy for switching with Latios but is still very frail so it's role as a pivot is limited.
Most of the time I went with Riley which was generally OK, a hard hitting mon with a bunch of powerful physical moves is as good as you can hope for. Some of his sets are a bit chaotic and unpredictable but you have to play around your partner being unreliable anyway (It's also funny when the tower AI is on the receiving end of a quick claw Machamp). He often has a set that has earthquake and likes to use it a lot which is usually helpful alongside Latios. One thing to be wary of is choice band sets (e.g. Rhyperior) as they will often lock into earthquake which can shut down your switching, but makes selecting moves much easier as things are much more predictable.
I would also like to thank QuentinQuonce for pointing out Pinsir has mostly good sets. I almost skipped using Riley once because he led with one but actually it was really good, especially in battle 49 which featured a Cresselia which took >50% from X-Scissor(!). This was also a lesson for me to pay more attention to the potential sets the partners can have. Fire fang Entei sucks.
I chose Mira a couple of times but she so often has 'Psychic type that uses psychic' which isn't too helpful. I would have likely chosen her if she led with a Moltres for cooking steel types but she never did for me. :(
I chose Marley once when she led with a Dugtrio and that was OK.
Also, I had to go and pick up the egg from Riley to make him appear, which means I never had him as an option for my 56 streak. I wonder if 'unlocking' a partner is a on-off way of re-rolling the sets of the others, I should have checked.
There are still loads of partner sets that I haven't experienced yet so that's all I can say really.
I would also like to thank QuentinQuonce for pointing out Pinsir has mostly good sets. I almost skipped using Riley once because he led with one but actually it was really good, especially in battle 49 which featured a Cresselia which took >50% from X-Scissor(!). This was also a lesson for me to pay more attention to the potential sets the partners can have. Fire fang Entei sucks.
I chose Mira a couple of times but she so often has 'Psychic type that uses psychic' which isn't too helpful. I would have likely chosen her if she led with a Moltres for cooking steel types but she never did for me. :(
I chose Marley once when she led with a Dugtrio and that was OK.
Also, I had to go and pick up the egg from Riley to make him appear, which means I never had him as an option for my 56 streak. I wonder if 'unlocking' a partner is a on-off way of re-rolling the sets of the others, I should have checked.
There are still loads of partner sets that I haven't experienced yet so that's all I can say really.
As mentioned I played very slack, I didn't bother with damage calcs and I only did trainer searches in later battles. There was even a time I shadow balled a Scizor forgetting it was gen IV. Despite this, Latios' incredible power carried me all the way to the 50s.
Not much to say about the loss really. After I passed battle 50 I played a lot more recklessly so this is mostly my fault.
The opposing AI (Kira and Austin I think?) led with Honchkrow and Breloom, my partner was Riley's choice band Rhyperior. With the trainer search, I knew the Breloom didn't have spore so decided to focus on the Honchkrow. I decided to Dragon Pulse it with the rationale that it may survive a Thunderbolt with a wacan berry so I may as well lock onto the stronger move. This was silly in restrospect because I think it was a trainer that uses lots of flying types. Having the power to KO both mons of one trainer becomes more of a luxury in later rounds anyway. The real lesson here though is I absolutely should have done calcs. Knowing dragon pulse wasn't a sure KO makes that thunderbolt on something that 75% doesn't have a wacan berry a lot more appealing.
So the result of this is Honchkrow barely survives the Dragon Pulse and KOs latios with a crit Night slash. Things spiral from there but to keep it brief I'll just list a few key moments:
- Salamence came in after Honchkrow and Weavile was unable to oneshot it with ice shard. This is where ice punch could have saved the day.
- The breloom fired off a bunch of dynamic punches which caused chaos
- Riley sent in Garchomp after Rhyperior. At this stage all it had to do was KO breloom which had already weakened itself with self inflicted poison so naturally Riley thought this was the time to *use double team* only to get hit with dynamic punch anyway.
- Breloom then misses a bunch of dynamic punches while Garchomp hurts itself in confusion. Breloom dies to poison.
- In comes Meganium of all things. Garchomp hits itself one more time and then gets finished off with a leaf storm.
All in all a cringeworthy battle which could have been won in so many ways. Even just KOing the Breloom turn 1 would have probably worked out so I just about made the worst choice. Lesson learned, do the damage calcs.
Also, at around battle 51 a trainer had Prinplup and Charmeleon? Didn't know that was possible but it was a pleasant surprise.
idk this might be a tough one
Not much to say about the loss really. After I passed battle 50 I played a lot more recklessly so this is mostly my fault.
The opposing AI (Kira and Austin I think?) led with Honchkrow and Breloom, my partner was Riley's choice band Rhyperior. With the trainer search, I knew the Breloom didn't have spore so decided to focus on the Honchkrow. I decided to Dragon Pulse it with the rationale that it may survive a Thunderbolt with a wacan berry so I may as well lock onto the stronger move. This was silly in restrospect because I think it was a trainer that uses lots of flying types. Having the power to KO both mons of one trainer becomes more of a luxury in later rounds anyway. The real lesson here though is I absolutely should have done calcs. Knowing dragon pulse wasn't a sure KO makes that thunderbolt on something that 75% doesn't have a wacan berry a lot more appealing.
So the result of this is Honchkrow barely survives the Dragon Pulse and KOs latios with a crit Night slash. Things spiral from there but to keep it brief I'll just list a few key moments:
- Salamence came in after Honchkrow and Weavile was unable to oneshot it with ice shard. This is where ice punch could have saved the day.
- The breloom fired off a bunch of dynamic punches which caused chaos
- Riley sent in Garchomp after Rhyperior. At this stage all it had to do was KO breloom which had already weakened itself with self inflicted poison so naturally Riley thought this was the time to *use double team* only to get hit with dynamic punch anyway.
- Breloom then misses a bunch of dynamic punches while Garchomp hurts itself in confusion. Breloom dies to poison.
- In comes Meganium of all things. Garchomp hits itself one more time and then gets finished off with a leaf storm.
All in all a cringeworthy battle which could have been won in so many ways. Even just KOing the Breloom turn 1 would have probably worked out so I just about made the worst choice. Lesson learned, do the damage calcs.
Also, at around battle 51 a trainer had Prinplup and Charmeleon? Didn't know that was possible but it was a pleasant surprise.
idk this might be a tough one
This was probably way too much detail for an uninspiring record. The short version is specs Latios is really good and could probably do well with a more bulky pivot and damage calcs.
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