-
Smogon Premier League is here and the team collection is now available. Support your team!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2025 Smog Awards!
5th Generation Confirmed?
- Thread starter haterguy
- Start date
- Status
Waiting for "WearwolfMon", "ZombieMon", and "DraculoMon". ; )
However, I think that next legends/ubers or w/e they are called will be based off of Egyptian/ Roman/ Ancient theme.
I also think that Ghost-Types, Rock Types, and Poison Types will be having a new "Competitive" Mono-type.
The new type will probably be... ... I dunno something Space like.
Dunsparce
Tropious
Farfetch'd
Will get a (Pr)Evo
However, I think that next legends/ubers or w/e they are called will be based off of Egyptian/ Roman/ Ancient theme.
I also think that Ghost-Types, Rock Types, and Poison Types will be having a new "Competitive" Mono-type.
The new type will probably be... ... I dunno something Space like.
Dunsparce
Tropious
Farfetch'd
Will get a (Pr)Evo
If there is a shred of truth behind the ground/electric ram rumor that would mean we'd be getting some Norse stuff. And boy, would I be cool with that.
You know I’ve considered what a dual-type move system would be like for quite a long time now. At first I also thought it was a terrible idea that would lead to mass imbalance in the metagame, but after considering it rationally for a while it slowly grew on me. I actually now think it could be just the kind of thing 5th gen needs to provide a suitable gameplay progression from 4th gen.
Excessive damage in certain cases is obviously a big concern (The Muddy Water / Magcargo scenario is a perfect example) which is why I reckon there would need to be a cap on the effectiveness range to 0.25-4x in order to be workable. But on the upside it would open up a new gameplay dimension as you’re no longer simply picking the best move of each type you require and instead you must think more carefully about each Pokemon’s moveset and how each Pokemon on the team gels together to make sure all bases are covered. For one thing it could help to make certain combos of moves not as mindlessly effective in terms of type coverage, such as Poliwrath resisting Specsmence’s Draco Meteor / Flamethrower / Hydro Pump combo for example. On the flipside it would possibly make Celebi a less effective Gyarados counter due to being mauled by Ice Fang, but then said Gyarados could end up walled by something else as a result.
Another plus is that it would potentially give more room for creativity in coming up with new moves, such as say a Rock / Fire type move involving hot coals (not the best example I know but you get my point). 2x double STAB for certain combos (Bullet Punch Luke, Muddy Water Swampert etc) could also be considered a little too much, but to be honest I would hope that Gamefreak would decide to nerf STAB to 1.25x in such a case. STAB is already a little overpowered in certain cases such as Outrage and Close Combat as it stands in D/P. Giving the 1.5x privilege to the rare double type match-up would be no bad thing IMO. Just my two cents on the whole dual-type idea.
Whilst on the topic of possible 5th gen improvements, I would like to see every trait get some kind of competitive use. I’m talking about things like Run Away (immune to trapping?), Pick Up (one in three chance of regaining a lost item every turn?), Illuminate (allow indirect attacks to ignore evasion modifiers and substitutes?) and others. I’d also like to see some crappy traits become a bit more viable, like Oblivious Pokemon becoming immune to all psychological persuasion (Encore, Taunt, Trick etc), and Keen Eye / Hyper Cutter ignoring all Evasion / Defense modifiers etc. Those are just possible suggestions, sorry if they sound shit.
Dual typed attacks is definitely FAR more trouble than its worth. For one thing, what decides whether or not an attack gets dual typed? Its fine and all to say Muddy Water should be Water/Ground, but WHY should it be ground at all? What does the mud, mixed in with the water, actually add to it? Would Blaze Kick, despite being a kick, even be a fighting attack? Mega Kick is a kick but its normal, afterall.
And then there's the deal with the whole weaknesses and resistances. If a pokemon is immune to one type, does it take no damage? Half damage? What if a pokemon is resistant to one type and has a double weakness to the other? What if it resists both? What if its weak to both?
Really, it'd just make battles way, WAY too complicated to even be worth considering. And thats before getting into the potential for dual STAB. As is, it'd make any pokemon with a dual stab nearly broken on their own unless you're bringing in one of those quad-resist pokemon. And this isn't a complexity that would be hidden behind the scenes either. Keep in mind who the target audience for the games are (ie. no one on this forum, and likely no one thats even played the 4th gen games since they design each generation with the intention of hooking new fans instead of pleasing the old ones)
My suggestion only applied to physical attacks, and then only to immunities. If the opposing pokemon is immune to a given physical attack, then rather than being outright negated it becomes a normal-type attack with half the base power. Thus a Gyarados attacking Vaporeon with Waterfall is really using a 42.5 base power normal attack. Slightly better than Tackle, and Vaporeon still gets to absorb the attack. The same would apply to Blaze Kick hitting a Flash Fire pokemon, Thunderpunch hitting a ground pokemon, etc. There's not much reason to even think attacks like those would be fighting unless you believed every punch or kick was a fighting attack. When you get down to it, there's really NO attacks that are blatantly dual typed.
And then there's the deal with the whole weaknesses and resistances. If a pokemon is immune to one type, does it take no damage? Half damage? What if a pokemon is resistant to one type and has a double weakness to the other? What if it resists both? What if its weak to both?
Really, it'd just make battles way, WAY too complicated to even be worth considering. And thats before getting into the potential for dual STAB. As is, it'd make any pokemon with a dual stab nearly broken on their own unless you're bringing in one of those quad-resist pokemon. And this isn't a complexity that would be hidden behind the scenes either. Keep in mind who the target audience for the games are (ie. no one on this forum, and likely no one thats even played the 4th gen games since they design each generation with the intention of hooking new fans instead of pleasing the old ones)
My suggestion only applied to physical attacks, and then only to immunities. If the opposing pokemon is immune to a given physical attack, then rather than being outright negated it becomes a normal-type attack with half the base power. Thus a Gyarados attacking Vaporeon with Waterfall is really using a 42.5 base power normal attack. Slightly better than Tackle, and Vaporeon still gets to absorb the attack. The same would apply to Blaze Kick hitting a Flash Fire pokemon, Thunderpunch hitting a ground pokemon, etc. There's not much reason to even think attacks like those would be fighting unless you believed every punch or kick was a fighting attack. When you get down to it, there's really NO attacks that are blatantly dual typed.
What I really want is not any entry hazard, but an entry benefit. In AA's Mod server (for the brief time I was there) had a move called Fruit Grove. It took one turn to set up and upon switching in you gained back health. Grass types restored 25% I forget what the other types did but you get my point.
I knew you were dumb, but now I see you have a problem.
How many pokémon learn Earth Power by Move Tutor? Yeah, that's right, only a few. Same with Outrage, it's mostly Dragon and beastly pokémon that get it. Why would it be any different with the Ability Tutor?
I actually think the best thing they could do to Regigigas is giving it an alternative trait... Maybe Stall? Now it keeps its 160 Base Attack, but always attack last. Fair game, IMO.
I'm okay with Snow Warning (because Ice sucks so much it's not even funny) and maybe Sand Stream, but... Drizzle and Drought? No thanks. Even 5-turn weather traits would be broken, CAP project has tested it once and the results weren't that promising.
I really don't see why not. They don't need to give it to everybody or even most pokémon, just to a select few. Say, you go to the Tutor with a Trace Ralts. He notices you have a Stardust, and says that he will change Ralts's ability to Synchronize for that. You accept, and now you have a Synchronize Ralts. But what if you had a Big Pearl? Then, he'll REALLY want it, and will say that, for the pearl, he'll change Ralts's ability to something "special"; he's going to reveal her "inner ability". You say yes, and then you get a... Magic Guard Ralts. Then, you go there again with an Ambipom and a Big Pearl, but he doesn't say a thing because it doesn't have a "inner ability", so the most you can do is changing its trait from Pickup to Technician.
That's the idea I have. It's a LOT restricted but, if done right, would shake up the metagame without being ridiculously broken (see: No Guard Articuno lol, what the hell).
Probably 12.5%? Well, I like this idea also. But what does damage first? Stealth Rock or Fruit Grove?
I hope they make a Stealth Icicle...
It's so much more appropriate.
It's so much more appropriate.
I'm gonna have t go with Rodger about dual typing, it just does seem more trouble then it's worth.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a cool concept, but GameFreak has to think throughly about this. But I think it's safe to say that most changes that GameFreak did with the game mechanics didn't cause a balancing problem in the metagame.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a cool concept, but GameFreak has to think throughly about this. But I think it's safe to say that most changes that GameFreak did with the game mechanics didn't cause a balancing problem in the metagame.
Ability Tutor? No. Just have a few OU-level Pokeymanz with Drizzle/Drought be introduced and I'd be happy.
I'd love to see a "National TM List" with all the TMs from every generation, including the new one, introduced. Even the crappy ones like Water Gun, just for lulz factor. Plus, I'd love to see all the move tutors included in the first wave of the games for that generation. Why not have ultimate customizability [sic] right off the bat?
I'd also love to see them go back to basics with Legendaries. Gen 2 was fine. Have your roaming OU/BL level trio, 00ber-level cover mascots and a base-600 "cute" Celebi/Mew/Jirachi/Shaymin style Legendary.
One last thing on my end, I'd love to see them set the 5th Gen someplace other than Japan. Plenty of options available with great landscapes and biodiversity to have a fantastic Dex. The Pacific Northwest is my personal preference, but various locales in Africa or the Australian Outback would be cool too.
Also...
lolwut?
The posters here at Smogon came up with 5 really good Pokémon without being paid for it or spending all their time on it. I'm sure that the folks over at Game Freak can scrape by for more than one more generation with the time they spend working on it with a monetary incentive involved.
I'd love to see a "National TM List" with all the TMs from every generation, including the new one, introduced. Even the crappy ones like Water Gun, just for lulz factor. Plus, I'd love to see all the move tutors included in the first wave of the games for that generation. Why not have ultimate customizability [sic] right off the bat?
I'd also love to see them go back to basics with Legendaries. Gen 2 was fine. Have your roaming OU/BL level trio, 00ber-level cover mascots and a base-600 "cute" Celebi/Mew/Jirachi/Shaymin style Legendary.
One last thing on my end, I'd love to see them set the 5th Gen someplace other than Japan. Plenty of options available with great landscapes and biodiversity to have a fantastic Dex. The Pacific Northwest is my personal preference, but various locales in Africa or the Australian Outback would be cool too.
Also...
lolwut?
The posters here at Smogon came up with 5 really good Pokémon without being paid for it or spending all their time on it. I'm sure that the folks over at Game Freak can scrape by for more than one more generation with the time they spend working on it with a monetary incentive involved.
Since when is it ever stated that pokemon takes place in Japan? It seems pretty clear to me that pokemon takes place in it's own environment, outside of our world.
Notable exception being Lt. Surge being some sort of American war veteran. Who fought wars with a Raichu. Pokemon is weird.
Not stated, but each region is modeled after one in Japan. There's actually a prefecture in Japan called Kanto, and Sinnoh's similarities to the island of Hokkaido are pretty transparent.
An ability switching tutor I could definitely agree with. You might get a siny Staryu with Illuminate just to piss you off, but could take it to the Ability Tutor to switch it to Natural Cure.
As for the Drizzle stuff, it's not like I want ALL Water types to be able to get Drizzle. Drizzle Suicune or Swampert would would just be ridiculous. But maybe stuff along the lines of Gorebyss, Huntail, or Relicanth.
We all know Ice is one of the best attacking types, but it SUCKS as a defensive one. It resists only itself, and it weak to Rock / Fire / Fighting / Steel, three of which are incredibly popular offensive types and the last basically says "Hi Scizor, come kick my ass!"
We all know that as well, and I couldn't agree more. All types have advantages and disadvantages-saying a type "sucks" is just out of place-and I myself needed alot of time to realise that. Besides, I preffer offensive pokemon anyway, therefor I don't mind much those common weaknesses as I care about the spectacular offensive coverage. You won't be seeing Poison to much on my teams. Why? Becuase it's likely the worsed attacking type in the game. But defensively, Poison is a great typing, sporing handy resistances great supportive movepools.Jiggy-Ninja said:
Should I explain why Ice is such an awsome attacking type?
I don't see why Ice would resist Dragon in terms of elemental typing. Rock is weak to Water-type attack, but hits Water-type Pokemon for neutral damage. Ice breaks and melts easily. Steel is sturdy unless it is heated to very high temperatures or something structural destroys it (Ie: Earthquakes - Ground).
I really don't forsee any type chart changes; they haven't done that since G/S/C and that was because the type chart was horribly broken.
Water doesn't need any more resists. It's already arguably the best defensive type in the game.
Regarding Double-typed attacks:
I think, if they were to implement it, it'd have to follow the following guidelines:
1) If a Pokemon is immune to either type of the attack, they are immune to the attack entirely, even if they are 4X weak to the other type.
2) STAB would only apply if the Pokemon shared both types with the attack, and would be 1.5X. Alternately, STAB is +.25 for each type shared (so Vaporeon or Dugtrio using a Water/Ground attack would do 1.25X damage, but Swampert would do 1.5X).
3) Weakness and resistance are cumulative. Yes, this means Magcargo would be 16X weak to this hypothetical Water/Ground attack. But the same attack would be Neutral against a Water/Electric type, as Water would resist water and ground would be super against Electric. 2X*.5X = 1X. A Fighting/Electric attack would be 2X effective against Gyarados.
4) Dual type moves should be very limited in number (no more than 1-2 per type combination, and maybe for 10-15 total type combinations), fairly limited in availability (as in not a lot of Pokemon could learn them), and capped in power below the level of highly competitive moves. Some good examples, using existing moves:
Dragonbreath becomes Dragon/Fire
Muddy Water and/or Mudslap become Water/Ground
Elemental Punches (Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Thunder Punch, Sucker Punch maybe, Shadow Punch?) get Fighting type possibly added. This might warrant the introduction of alternate Physical options for some of these types.
Steel Wing becomes Steel/Flying
Wait, instead of a cool guy "teaching" some few abilities to a few pokémon (like the concept I posted), you'd prefer to have... Mini-Kyogres?
Yeah, what about a continent based on America? Pokémon: Ludicolo (Mexico) / Hitmontop (Brazil) / Staraptor (USA?) Version! At least we have that big rainforest.
If I recall correctly, people tested level 1 Kyogre/Groudon back in Netbattle, and even then they were deemed to be broken. I know I'd love to have a easier way to set up Sunny Day in OU, but Drought really isn't the way to go =(
Yeah, cool, but no one said Ice Beam is a horrible attack, just as no one said Muk has shitty defensive typing. But Sludge Bomb is never used for a reason; it sucks. Same with Ice-type pokémon in general defensively: They have too many weaknesses (including SR) and only one resist. There's no way they can be good that way. Why do you think the only Ice-type OU we have is Weavile?
Tell me how does Bug hit Psychic for SE damage.
Ice resisting Dragon not only would make it better defensively (now resisting two of the better attacking types of the game), but would make Outrages and Draco Meteors easier to handle. Having only one type resisting it is pretty bad.
Probably this will never happen, though =(
Don't you think that the electric-type will be Pikachu and the new Pokemon is something completely different?
One thing I'd like to see is as follows:
BST boosts.
The one thing I hated about the game was Pokemon such as Nidoking, Poliwrath, and Camerupt having so much potential... only to have the drawback of their low stats. I'm not saying this because of fanboy-ism either. Some of them are rather ridiculous (Unown, Luvdisc, I could argue a ton of these). I really, REALLY wish they'd patch some of these Pokemon and appreciate them a little more other than giving them new moves.
BST boosts.
The one thing I hated about the game was Pokemon such as Nidoking, Poliwrath, and Camerupt having so much potential... only to have the drawback of their low stats. I'm not saying this because of fanboy-ism either. Some of them are rather ridiculous (Unown, Luvdisc, I could argue a ton of these). I really, REALLY wish they'd patch some of these Pokemon and appreciate them a little more other than giving them new moves.
Bugs disturb the psychics sense of balance so their powers ore off. That or they're sissypants like MIsty. pick either.
Also i want another game liek coliseum where i cna be a bad guy and join up with team rocket. Infact at the Nugget bridge i kept twelling him yes and he asked me if i was serious so i changed my mind and killed his Mankey with a wartortle just because im hood like that.
So yeah, 5th gen for the win :)
Also i want another game liek coliseum where i cna be a bad guy and join up with team rocket. Infact at the Nugget bridge i kept twelling him yes and he asked me if i was serious so i changed my mind and killed his Mankey with a wartortle just because im hood like that.
So yeah, 5th gen for the win :)
South America would actually be a great place to set a game. I wasn't being exclusive... there are a ton of great areas and habitats that would be awesome settings for a 5th Gen game.
- Status