this team really works ! I love it
but in all seriousness, yeah Gale Wings needs to go. that, or an Ability Clause of some sort needs to be implemented so the overuse of one ability doesn't get too out of hand
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but in all seriousness, yeah Gale Wings needs to go. that, or an Ability Clause of some sort needs to be implemented so the overuse of one ability doesn't get too out of hand
bp scrub
rub a dub dub one scrub in a tub
So are cap mons supposed to be included? I just tried Trace Rotom-Wash, who inherits the ability from Krilowatt and it's apparently legal
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/abilityunity-353275759
edit: also Intimidate/Volt Absorb Skarm are "legal"
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/abilityunity-353275759
edit: also Intimidate/Volt Absorb Skarm are "legal"
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I noticed that also. I don't think cap pokemon make much of a difference because most of the abilities/typings aren't viable. Skarm is outclassed by zapdos. There aren't any good pure rock types to use stratagem's levitate, etc. Now if only we had a bug/psychic type for illusion/noguard or a ice/bug type for mountaineer that'd be a different story.
Good catch! I tested inheriting Rebound but I didn't test inheriting normal stuff from CAP. Will be fixed.
When i started playing this meta , I had realized that i would need a check for all those birdspam teams , Staraptor and braviary especially since they hit pretty hard and can maintain momentum with u-turn. I dislike the fact that there's no such clause like in AAA ( no more than two mons with same abilities on a team ) and mix and mega ( not allowing you to use the same mega stone one multiple pokemon ) , if that is added it would make a lot more easier for people to play. As motherlove said above ( i battled her on the ladder and got destroyed my moltress' confusion ;-; ) birdspam is ridiculously strong, even registeel can tank a full team of bird spam as it gets totaled by banded CC
252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Registeel: 165-195 (45.3 - 53.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Though its a 3HKO , registeel doesnt really do anything back to them especially since theres always that moltress that and chatot to cause confusion.
Nasty plot chatter and boomburst combo is insane and i would personally like it to be suspected.
On another note, heres some power wall-breaker sets i have :
Raikou @ Assault Vest
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt
- Extrasensory
- Shadow Ball
Personally I love using raikou with assault vest allowing it to tank some special hits and damage them back as well. Thankfully , eelektross exists, giving it levitate and making it a no-weakness mon. The move set is pretty much whatever the user likes to run but i favor Tbolt ( STAB obv ) and hp ice for landorus etc extrasensory and shadow ball for coverage. Your biggest night mare would be chansey indeed.
Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Aura Sphere
- Nasty Plot
- Vacuum Wave
- Flash Cannon
Sure sure you can debate that physical side may be better thanks to higher priority which is espeed but i like the special side better thanks to the obvious mew switch-ins for will-o-wisps which thought cripple you down slowly but also give you a turn to set up nasty plot and vacuum wave is the only priority. +2 hardly anything stops it even after resistance, not even chansey itself.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 426-504 (60.5 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Unaware could prove a problem for you.
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Unaware Chansey: 213-255 (30.2 - 36.2%) -- 45.4% chance to 3HKO
Lucario is especially good in this meta thanks to adaptability and the steel typing making it nearly-unstoppable even by unaware florges etc.
Some cool ideas :
Protean ferraligatr ( thank you froakie ) , ferraligatr gets DD, Waterfall , ice punch , eq and many other moves for vast coverage and protean making it better than ever.
Protean Manaphy with tail glow works quite well however bug type is pretty weak defensively putting a big whole in your sweeping capability.
Lightning-rod manaphy, suicune ( oh seaking ), oh you thought crocune was a pain to deal with ? now its even more of a pain thanks to only weakness being grass and the most common grass users in this meta are manaphy with energy ball ( a few cm and you will taking them for days ) and chestnaught ( which rarely carries power whip and you have insane physical defenses and the chance to burn with scald ).
I haven't tried protean kangaskhan but it might work well and make up for its poor stats.
EDIT : Work up sharp beak staraptor with gale wings is not bad at all either.
Loppuny and scizor get download before mega evolving to abuse your STAB moves with highest power.
252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Registeel: 165-195 (45.3 - 53.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Though its a 3HKO , registeel doesnt really do anything back to them especially since theres always that moltress that and chatot to cause confusion.
Nasty plot chatter and boomburst combo is insane and i would personally like it to be suspected.
On another note, heres some power wall-breaker sets i have :
Raikou @ Assault Vest
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt
- Extrasensory
- Shadow Ball
Personally I love using raikou with assault vest allowing it to tank some special hits and damage them back as well. Thankfully , eelektross exists, giving it levitate and making it a no-weakness mon. The move set is pretty much whatever the user likes to run but i favor Tbolt ( STAB obv ) and hp ice for landorus etc extrasensory and shadow ball for coverage. Your biggest night mare would be chansey indeed.
Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Aura Sphere
- Nasty Plot
- Vacuum Wave
- Flash Cannon
Sure sure you can debate that physical side may be better thanks to higher priority which is espeed but i like the special side better thanks to the obvious mew switch-ins for will-o-wisps which thought cripple you down slowly but also give you a turn to set up nasty plot and vacuum wave is the only priority. +2 hardly anything stops it even after resistance, not even chansey itself.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 426-504 (60.5 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Unaware could prove a problem for you.
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Unaware Chansey: 213-255 (30.2 - 36.2%) -- 45.4% chance to 3HKO
Lucario is especially good in this meta thanks to adaptability and the steel typing making it nearly-unstoppable even by unaware florges etc.
Some cool ideas :
Protean ferraligatr ( thank you froakie ) , ferraligatr gets DD, Waterfall , ice punch , eq and many other moves for vast coverage and protean making it better than ever.
Protean Manaphy with tail glow works quite well however bug type is pretty weak defensively putting a big whole in your sweeping capability.
Lightning-rod manaphy, suicune ( oh seaking ), oh you thought crocune was a pain to deal with ? now its even more of a pain thanks to only weakness being grass and the most common grass users in this meta are manaphy with energy ball ( a few cm and you will taking them for days ) and chestnaught ( which rarely carries power whip and you have insane physical defenses and the chance to burn with scald ).
I haven't tried protean kangaskhan but it might work well and make up for its poor stats.
EDIT : Work up sharp beak staraptor with gale wings is not bad at all either.
Loppuny and scizor get download before mega evolving to abuse your STAB moves with highest power.
imo ban Gale Wings. You can literally win with like 6 gale wings pokemon and just win for using flying type moves and moltres.
I can deal with one per team with my Registeel, but 6 of them? nope.
if you think Prankster is bad, you should be able to ban gale wings
I can deal with one per team with my Registeel, but 6 of them? nope.
if you think Prankster is bad, you should be able to ban gale wings
So um... Why isn't chatter banned? Especially combined with gale wings, it's really annoying.
Annoying really isn't a good reason to ban something.
I'm sure The Immortal has already noticed the cry for a chatter ban, no reason to mention it and I sincerely doubt it won't get banned rather quickly!
From réponses in the community I believe an ability clause disallowing unifying from more than one pokemon is a good idea! For example, you can:
A: You can have Staraptor and Moltres on the same team, as they don't unity from the same pokemon
B: You can't have Staraptor and Chatot on the same team, as they unite from the same pokemon
C: You can have Charizard and Moltres with Gale wings, because they don't unite from the same pokemon, one uniting from Fletchinder and the other from Talonflame
From réponses in the community I believe an ability clause disallowing unifying from more than one pokemon is a good idea! For example, you can:
A: You can have Staraptor and Moltres on the same team, as they don't unity from the same pokemon
B: You can't have Staraptor and Chatot on the same team, as they unite from the same pokemon
C: You can have Charizard and Moltres with Gale wings, because they don't unite from the same pokemon, one uniting from Fletchinder and the other from Talonflame
Thats rather better than straight up banning gale wings , gale wings itself is a pretty good ability but not OP enough to be banned completely. The clause you suggested is a really good idea imo. Dealing with one staraptor and braviary etc and moltres shouldnt be so hard.
yeah i like that ability clause idea but i'm thinking one ability per team but idk is that kind of a stretch?
If you had read my post you'd realise that is in fact what happens, you can only unite from one pokemon, but if multiple pokemon have the same ability you can connect two and two together.
I like Ability Clause, but instead of giving "Inheritance clause" to ability, I'd prefer to just straight up limit to no more than 2 of the same Ability per team. In your post, what you're saying is you can still carry 4 Regenerators as long as they have different types (remember Regenerators got MANY type combinations), which I disaguree. I think straight up limiting to max 2 of the same Abilities per team is just better, just like AAA.
Edit: apparently, Intimidate got even more types, so it's really easy to make an Intimidate spam team, which is very easy to do even with the "unifying clause." That's also a problem I'd say.
Is it me, or does fusing both ideas sound like it would make the metagame a lot better. This way u can't abuse regen Chansey + regen P2, and at the same time u limit Bird spam teams, which are obviously too good for the meta right now.
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
Can we stop acting like ability clause wasn't suggested already two pages ago? The redundancy of the posts on this thread is just ridiculous. If TI is going to implement it, he will, but mentioning the same thing 8 times (8 different posts have brought up an ability clause) isn't going to make him any more likely to do so. You can show support with the post like button. Half of these posts aren't adding anything meaningful to the conversation.
As for the addition of an ability clause by inheritance, that's a great idea. That's an example of thinking outside the box to solve a common problem, and I very much agree with that.
I laddered for quite a while yesterday with a rather unusual team and came to some simple conclusions.
Swift Swim Keldeo was one of my first ideas, but it has been quite underwhelming. It doesn't hit hard enough to overcome typical bulkier mons in this metagame, and it lacks the ability to get past gale wings, making it seemingly mediocre. I used Manaphy as my setter - lots of bulk, u-turn, resttalk if you want it, etc. It's a great support mon in that role if you want to use rain.
Moltres>other gale wings users. Moltres just hits stupidly hard with hurricane and/or fire blast. A lot of common sweepers or gale wings checks just fall flat on their face to this thing because of its raw power off the special side. Hitting off of the special attack also gives it a completely different set of counters, and the ability to run a hidden power to get past checks makes it really, really threatening.
Scarf Serene Grace Metagross is quite scary. It's a straight upgrade over Jirachi in everything but the speed and u-turn, and it shows. It's a decent birdspam check, and the increased damage output helps it flinch things to death much more reliably. With that being said, however, losing u-turn really hurts. The speed drop is manageable, but the lack of u-turn creates a lot of 50/50s because you have to decide whether or not you're willing to potentially lose Metagross to flinch something to death.
As for other mons, I still don't know yet. Arena Trap Hippowdon seems pretty cool, as does Download Lopunny.
As for the addition of an ability clause by inheritance, that's a great idea. That's an example of thinking outside the box to solve a common problem, and I very much agree with that.
I laddered for quite a while yesterday with a rather unusual team and came to some simple conclusions.
Swift Swim Keldeo was one of my first ideas, but it has been quite underwhelming. It doesn't hit hard enough to overcome typical bulkier mons in this metagame, and it lacks the ability to get past gale wings, making it seemingly mediocre. I used Manaphy as my setter - lots of bulk, u-turn, resttalk if you want it, etc. It's a great support mon in that role if you want to use rain.
Moltres>other gale wings users. Moltres just hits stupidly hard with hurricane and/or fire blast. A lot of common sweepers or gale wings checks just fall flat on their face to this thing because of its raw power off the special side. Hitting off of the special attack also gives it a completely different set of counters, and the ability to run a hidden power to get past checks makes it really, really threatening.
Scarf Serene Grace Metagross is quite scary. It's a straight upgrade over Jirachi in everything but the speed and u-turn, and it shows. It's a decent birdspam check, and the increased damage output helps it flinch things to death much more reliably. With that being said, however, losing u-turn really hurts. The speed drop is manageable, but the lack of u-turn creates a lot of 50/50s because you have to decide whether or not you're willing to potentially lose Metagross to flinch something to death.
As for other mons, I still don't know yet. Arena Trap Hippowdon seems pretty cool, as does Download Lopunny.
I just wanted to put out there that any Normal/Flying gets No Guard from Mega Pidgeot, which means that Pokemon like Chatot, Unfezant, and Noctowl get 100% accurate sleep-inducing moves, (Sing and Hypnosis) and this can give especially Chatot room to set up with a Nasty Plot.
Well then, time for one of my possibly incoherent rambling sessions about this meta.
First of all, after twelve pages of posts, I'm sure there's been some mention of this metagame being creative. And here I am, saying it's creative. Well, creative meaning 'some sort of a creative divergence from Inheritence. sorta'. And no, that it's meant to be taken offensively. It's a good thing. I hope.
As leechlifezubat said (the page told me that there was a new message while I was writing my post), things like Normal/Flying types getting No Guard is something that could be quite good. Hypnosis / Sing followed by a setup Nasty Plot is nice, but then again; no Gale wings. And that is partly also a reason why I posted on this very thread. I noticed Gale Wings had quite a bit of... 'controversy' behind it, to put it simply. It is indeed a good ability; all Normal/Flying and Fire/Flying types get access to this very ability. Meaning that; if you makea team full of them, well... You have a team full of priority Flying-type moves. Including Roost. And possibly Chatter. Which is pretty stupid.
I mean, I guess sooner or later there will be a vote to ban either Chatter, or restrict usage of Gale Wings. Referring to AJA's post, at that. AJA made a pretty nice 'system' of sorts on how Gale Wings should be restricted. (Or, more simply put, the Pokémon themselves that are restricted. Putting a restriction on Gale Wings is risque, to say the least).
This was your rambling session, brought to you by Kristoph Gavin, yours truly.
Peace.
First of all, after twelve pages of posts, I'm sure there's been some mention of this metagame being creative. And here I am, saying it's creative. Well, creative meaning 'some sort of a creative divergence from Inheritence. sorta'. And no, that it's meant to be taken offensively. It's a good thing. I hope.
As leechlifezubat said (the page told me that there was a new message while I was writing my post), things like Normal/Flying types getting No Guard is something that could be quite good. Hypnosis / Sing followed by a setup Nasty Plot is nice, but then again; no Gale wings. And that is partly also a reason why I posted on this very thread. I noticed Gale Wings had quite a bit of... 'controversy' behind it, to put it simply. It is indeed a good ability; all Normal/Flying and Fire/Flying types get access to this very ability. Meaning that; if you makea team full of them, well... You have a team full of priority Flying-type moves. Including Roost. And possibly Chatter. Which is pretty stupid.
I mean, I guess sooner or later there will be a vote to ban either Chatter, or restrict usage of Gale Wings. Referring to AJA's post, at that. AJA made a pretty nice 'system' of sorts on how Gale Wings should be restricted. (Or, more simply put, the Pokémon themselves that are restricted. Putting a restriction on Gale Wings is risque, to say the least).
This was your rambling session, brought to you by Kristoph Gavin, yours truly.
Peace.
If you set up with this then baton pass to a gale wing braviary or contrary hoopa its pretty much gg. Ive used it a couple times and if I was able to set it up, people just forfeit. Chatter chattot can ruin it though, but if it's banned this set could be useful. :)
Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Spore
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Spore
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
Baton Pass clause, though. You can't pass a boost in Speed along with another boost, and I'm not sure how helpful those boosts would be for Smeargle itself.
Anyway, I agree regarding an eventual Chatter ban. That move, along with Gale Wings, is almost on par with the hax brought by Serene Grace Skymin, which is very easy to abuse and can grant you virtually unlimited momentum. So I support the Chatter ban.
Wait a minute...I see some weird things (that may have been covered but idk)
Multitype - theoretically any pure type Pokemon can have it and it can create interesting STAB moves.
Protean - Pure normals like P2/PZ can have it; Water/Dark like Sharpedo and Crawdaunt can have it; Pure waters can also have it. Not sure if it is that balanced (haven't tested meta yet idk)
Landorus can have PH/Sheer Force and Gliscor can have intimidate (not huge as all abilities are good but still)
Gale wings - Staraptor/Braviary/Charizard?
Bulky Zygrade with rough skin basically more bulky chomp.
Primordial Sea/Desolate Land/Delta Stream - interesting abilities.
Magic Bounce Mew - fun swag
Illusion gimmicks in Absol --> mega
Looks like a fun meta I'm ready to check it out ;)
Multitype - theoretically any pure type Pokemon can have it and it can create interesting STAB moves.
Protean - Pure normals like P2/PZ can have it; Water/Dark like Sharpedo and Crawdaunt can have it; Pure waters can also have it. Not sure if it is that balanced (haven't tested meta yet idk)
Landorus can have PH/Sheer Force and Gliscor can have intimidate (not huge as all abilities are good but still)
Gale wings - Staraptor/Braviary/Charizard?
Bulky Zygrade with rough skin basically more bulky chomp.
Primordial Sea/Desolate Land/Delta Stream - interesting abilities.
Magic Bounce Mew - fun swag
Illusion gimmicks in Absol --> mega
Looks like a fun meta I'm ready to check it out ;)
Swift swin keldeo sounds powerful and fun to use however it even straight up loses the manaphy with or without sheer force if it has energy ball.
Multitype doesnt work on anyone besides arceus iirc.
Protean sharpedo and crawdaunt are in no way better than speed boost and adaptability, however adaptability sharpedo might be good but then again , speed boost is really good. Protean DDance Ferraligatr and manaphy are decent as well but not overwhelming.
Gale wings is the most common ability i would say, extremely good for revenge killing. Staraptor and braviary are two most used GW users and then theres moltres with hurricane defog and roost as well as Belly drum charizard with acrobatics which loses to other gale wings user due to its low speed.
Bulky tough skin zygarde is indeed good but still up to whoever uses it , zygarde lacks the offensive movepool and power chomp has and also no access to stealth rock.
Poison heal/ intimidate gliscor/ landorus-T are also nice.
Many water types get primordial sea, for example, suicune and milotic. Only camerupt gets desolate land which doesnt really make up for its poor stats. Delta steam noivern , dragonite and salamence are pretty nice but i dont see myself running delta stream over multiscale.
Illusion absol was my first try , didnt turn out well has absol's defences are terrible to even take neutral hits, however if you manage to get an SD up , even revenge killers with gale wings fail to KO thanks to sucker punch and the low bulk of gale wings user. Intimidate imo, is always better ( thanks to mightyena )
Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Wish
- Protect
- Baton Pass
I've been running stall but this mon strikes me as something that could be really viable on balance too. Really bulky on both sides, strong offensive presence with STAB Foul Play, switches easily into basically any hazard setter, the sort of things you expect Umbreon to do. The gem of the set is Baton Pass, which with Umbreon's low speed and plentiful switchin opportunities makes it really really useful for giving frailer mons switchins and is fantastic at maintaining momentum.
Alright so I've made some decisions. I've added an ability clause. Not like the one in AAA, but what AllJokesAside had suggested. You can only "unite" with a specific Pokemon once. The reason for this and not just the AAA ability clause is that there's much more restriction here given that it's based on types. I've also unbanned Prankster since it's worth being tested at least.
^thank you.
Currently considering a powerful special attacker.
Wailord @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
EV's: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Water Spout
-Hydro Pump/Surf
-Ice Beam
-Hidden Power Grass/Electric/Fire
This set unifies with Corphish/Basculin and aims to beat the opponent senseless with 300 BP Water Spouts. These hits are stronger than Explosion. Priority, Chaney, and bulky spD invested resists stop it easily, otherwise it likely tear holes in the opposition. I have yet to test, but any thoughts?
Currently considering a powerful special attacker.
Wailord @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
EV's: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Water Spout
-Hydro Pump/Surf
-Ice Beam
-Hidden Power Grass/Electric/Fire
This set unifies with Corphish/Basculin and aims to beat the opponent senseless with 300 BP Water Spouts. These hits are stronger than Explosion. Priority, Chaney, and bulky spD invested resists stop it easily, otherwise it likely tear holes in the opposition. I have yet to test, but any thoughts?
I've just started playing this, seems fun mainly due to lack of -ate spam.
Here are some things I've been using.
Carracosta @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Scald
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Toxic
Moltres/birds check + support
It has the best move in the game, how can you go wrong with this set
Chesnaught @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Drain Punch
- Leech Seed
- Spiky Shield
set up spikes, try and punch through Umbreon, and just be hard to kill in general
I paired these two sets with Moltres to check Fairy and Fighting types, although then you need a means to break through Calm Mind spammers and preferably a magic bouncer too.
Here are some things I've been using.
Carracosta @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Scald
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Toxic
Moltres/birds check + support
It has the best move in the game, how can you go wrong with this set
Chesnaught @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Drain Punch
- Leech Seed
- Spiky Shield
set up spikes, try and punch through Umbreon, and just be hard to kill in general
I paired these two sets with Moltres to check Fairy and Fighting types, although then you need a means to break through Calm Mind spammers and preferably a magic bouncer too.
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