Lower Tiers ADV NU Viability Ranking (found new host)

[Oglemi]

I know NUPL isn't over just yet but I'm going to bring up some changes that I feel should be made to better reflect the current meta after laddering a ton the past couple days

Firstly I feel Yanma and Piloswine are too low in C and feel they should be moved up to B- or B


With the increased traction of boom teams and an almost historic low in Sableye usage, Yanma is looking more prime than ever to be a considerable fringe threat. Fighting + Flying coverage is no joke and a Spikes immunity means it'll always be able to correctly lower its health down to 1 through Sub usage. Definitely not as good as something like Raticate that has sweep potential outside of setup, but something to be worth building around and is a bit more than a C level threat imo.


Def more controversial probably, and I realize I'm probably the only person that's ever run the guy. That said, I feel he's high key slept on atm. His power is as ridonk as ever, and ya Wailord is everywhere and when playing with CB you can almost never feel safe pressing EQ cuz there's a ton of Ground immunes. But when he does go off it really goes off, also his coverage is great and you can easily break teams with just CB Rock Slide/DE. He's best at making trades but when played right he can really force the opp's hand to play the way you want and he's definitely a step above the other C ranks

Next, I feel Venomoth is too high and should drop to B


Still a potent sleep lead that can really just screw certain teams from the get-go, but current meta builds, esp stallier builds, are just unaffected by him for the most part. Sub+BP is great as always but it's definitely more on par with the rest of B rank than it is with A-

Finally I think Pidgeot should rise to A- in Veno's place


The bird is just strong. Being in a great speed tier really helps it dominate some matches, having a nuke of a DE is great, and an all-time low in popularity of Mawile has only done it favors. Ya you need to click HP Ground more often than not against a team that can really keep Metang alive, but if you pair it with Diglett or can bait it out Pidg can put in a ton of work. Definitely more on par with Golbat than below it in viability imo.

 

[Rabia]

I disagree an insane amount with the notion that Pidgeot is anywhere near Golbat in terms of viability. If you lump the Normal- and Flying-type Pokemon into a tier list of their own, Pidgeot is decidedly below Golbat, Raticate, and Murkrow. It still struggles with high usage of Relicanth, Metang, and Sableye and frankly is hard to justify over the aforementioned competitors because realistically what does it have over them? A bit of bulk that seldom comes into play? Defensively, I value Golbat and Murkrow eons more over it; offensively, its outdone solidly by other options. Pidgeot should stay where it currently is.

 

[Triangles]

I disagree an insane amount with the notion that Pidgeot is anywhere near Golbat in terms of viability. If you lump the Normal- and Flying-type Pokemon into a tier list of their own, Pidgeot is decidedly below Golbat, Raticate, and Murkrow. It still struggles with high usage of Relicanth, Metang, and Sableye and frankly is hard to justify over the aforementioned competitors because realistically what does it have over them? A bit of bulk that seldom comes into play? Defensively, I value Golbat and Murkrow eons more over it; offensively, its outdone solidly by other options. Pidgeot should stay where it currently is.

I'd say it's considerably stronger than both golbat and murkrow as it has a fat stab double edge and respectable stab priority.

 

[Jisoo]

I've never felt a huge difference when playing with Pidgeot and Golbat, they both can break through their checks with Hidden Powers / psn chances in Golbat's case but are a bit unreliable in doing so. I personally use Golbat a lot more, both the Poison STAB and the resistance to fighting contribute a lot of value to games. Yanma's niche as the most reliable 1% sweeper can be valuable against a team with a ton of frail threats and I've pulled it off a couple of times, I think it deserves a higher ranking. My only semi-unique observation is that some of the things in the As gotta go down, particularly Pika and Venomoth with Octillery being the most egregious.

 

[PichuFlash]

I've never felt a huge difference when playing with Pidgeot and Golbat, they both can break through their checks with Hidden Powers / psn chances in Golbat's case but are a bit unreliable in doing so. I personally use Golbat a lot more, both the Poison STAB and the resistance to fighting contribute a lot of value to games. Yanma's niche as the most reliable 1% sweeper can be valuable against a team with a ton of frail threats and I've pulled it off a couple of times, I think it deserves a higher ranking. My only semi-unique observation is that some of the things in the As gotta go down, particularly Pika and Venomoth with Octillery being the most egregious.

I prefer Golbat over Pidgeot. His typing is far superior defensively, and his STAB sludge bomb is great because it cripples phys. offense switchins like Sableye. Both Pidgeot and Golbat are ruined by rest talk relicanth, but Golbat has the option to run giga drain and do a fair amount, much more significant damage than HP ground. Pidgeot's STAB quick attack can come in handy, but a lot of cleaners don't care much about it (Pupitar, bulk up Vigoroth and Hitmonchan, salac Haunter). Golbat's tangible defensive utility makes him a great partner for quad weak grass mons like Relicanth and Whiscash, mons weak against fighting, and mons weak against ground. Pidgeot's normal typing makes him neutral to fighting, so his only real defensive utility comes in EQ immunity, and ability to take any one hit. I think Golbat pretty much necessitates a good steel switchin or a trapper Diglett, but Pidgeot needs the same kind of support. I think Pidgeot is a nice mid-ground between Golbat and Raticate. You get both flying STAB and normal STAB, and a better defensive profile than Raticate but less than Golbat.
I don't believe Octillery is overrated. Even aside from baton pass, they are the most reliable paralysis spreader in the tier, they make a great lead, and their coverage is unmatched. They're a great weather setter as well.
Pika and Venomoth might be a bit overrated on the list. Pika is impossible to switch into, but they also have no defensive utility, no leftovers, and a speed which leaves them vulnerable to Haunter, Plusle, Minun, etc... I personally love Pikachu on rain teams where their wall breaking is unmatched. Venomoth as a sleep lead seems a bit overrated to me. I see very little reason to not run lum berry on lead Glalie. I made a charcoal anti-lead Venomoth set to 2 hit KO glalie with hp fire, but that isn't standard, and light screen Glalie ruins it. Against the many fire anti-lead you're risking a 25% chance to die outright to their fire attacks. Not that Venomoth is bad, I just run lum berry a lot on my leads, which makes moth less effective.

 

[Bughouse]

My opinions based on watching NUPL games and my own extensive testing with Heysup (note, I'm sure he disagrees with me on a good chunk of this anyway)

Rises:

• Flareon to S. I'd argue at this point in time it's the third best mon in the meta even, behind only Haunter and Chimecho.
• Raticate to A, sets used this NUPL show some versatility. As meta has become more offensive, its speed tier is all the more important.
• Huntail to A, similar to rat as meta becomes more offensive, Huntail's countersweeping potential has risen. Few teams pack dedicated counters like Rest Dewgong, so late game it has very high cleaning potential. It also has somewhat more defensive utility than its sunny counterpart Bellossom against key mons like Flareon and Metang.
• Vigoroth to B+, don't have specific reasoning other than it's better than everything in B- and a few things in B+.
• Grovyle to B+, Sub Petaya Endeavor has an almost worst case outcome of trading 1-1 and usually does much better than that. 95 speed tier is amazing. Somewhat viable at Pursuit Trapping Haunter.
• Wigglytuff to B-, it's actually better than Lickitung

Drops:

• Pidgeot shouldn't rise, if anything Golbat should fall to B+ with it. Birds aren't great right now but of the bunch Murk is pretty clearly the best, imo. Flying is better to lock into than Normal or Poison, period. I'd frankly be fine for Murkrow to drop to A- too. I will say Pidgeot's and Golbat's bulkier sets are probably somewhat underexplored. I've enjoyed using a bulkier set with protect and lefties on a sorta stall team quite a bit. I've tried the team with both mons in the roll, and found that Golbat does it quite well.
• Lickitung to C, it's actually worse than Wigglytuff
• Tropius to B+, not getting used and meta trends aren't kind to its style of bulky set up
• Cacturne to A-, quite clearly worse than Rose or Glalie at spiking in current meta. Still great if you're badly in need of a Haunter check, offering some amount of role compression.

New ranks:

• Voltorb and Seaking to C - full rain is something I do keep in the (way) back of my mind when reviewing a team for weaknesses, certainly more than i do most current C rank mons.

 

[PichuFlash]

My opinions based on watching NUPL games and my own extensive testing with Heysup (note, I'm sure he disagrees with me on a good chunk of this anyway)

Rises:

• Flareon to S. I'd argue at this point in time it's the third best mon in the meta even, behind only Haunter and Chimecho.
• Raticate to A, sets used this NUPL show some versatility. As meta has become more offensive, its speed tier is all the more important.
• Huntail to A, similar to rat as meta becomes more offensive, Huntail's countersweeping potential has risen. Few teams pack dedicated counters like Rest Dewgong, so late game it has very high cleaning potential. It also has somewhat more defensive utility than its sunny counterpart Bellossom against key mons like Flareon and Metang.
• Vigoroth to B+, don't have specific reasoning other than it's better than everything in B- and a few things in B+.
• Grovyle to B+, Sub Petaya Endeavor has an almost worst case outcome of trading 1-1 and usually does much better than that. 95 speed tier is amazing. Somewhat viable at Pursuit Trapping Haunter.
• Wigglytuff to B-, it's actually better than Lickitung

Drops:

• Pidgeot shouldn't rise, if anything Golbat should fall to B+ with it. Birds aren't great right now but of the bunch Murk is pretty clearly the best, imo. Flying is better to lock into than Normal or Poison, period. I'd frankly be fine for Murkrow to drop to A- too. I will say Pidgeot's and Golbat's bulkier sets are probably somewhat underexplored. I've enjoyed using a bulkier set with protect and lefties on a sorta stall team quite a bit. I've tried the team with both mons in the roll, and found that Golbat does it quite well.
• Lickitung to C, it's actually worse than Wigglytuff
• Tropius to B+, not getting used and meta trends aren't kind to its style of bulky set up
• Cacturne to A-, quite clearly worse than Rose or Glalie at spiking in current meta. Still great if you're badly in need of a Haunter check, offering some amount of role compression.

New ranks:

• Voltorb and Seaking to C - full rain is something I do keep in the (way) back of my mind when reviewing a team for weaknesses, certainly more than i do most current C rank mons.

I'm glad Voltorb was added. I've been spamming a full rain team on ladder, got me to 27th place. Voltorb's distinct advantage over Haunter as a rain setter is his access to light screen. Best case scenario, you set light screen, rain dance, then explode with silk scarf. Even if you explode on a resist, swift swimmer has free entry. I personally think full rain is significantly better than full sun. Things like self-destruct Wailord clear the path for Huntail to clean late-game. Seaking is a bit less useful imo, but they do deserve to be ranked. Megahorn is nice for Bellossom and non-phys def Chimecho, and they can actually act as an anti-rain mon with their 68 base speed (compared to Huntail's 52).
I know this is a bit off-topic, but I'd like to mention Magcargo. While they are typically worse than Torkoal, they can offer nice role-compression on a stall team. They offer a normal resistance so Pidgeot and Raticate can't muscle their way through, and they can function as a lead. Torkoal is a better lead, but with some investment Magcargo can live Metang EQ and Glalie EQ and KO them in return with fire blast. Stall teams often run Lickitung and Roselia, who patch up his awful water weakness, and cleric Chimecho to patch up his EQ weakness. Wish support means he isn't dependent on rest-talk as well. Magcargo's ability to bait water, ground, and fighting attacks actually makes pivoting more predictable. The opponent is more inclined to throw an EQ at Magcargo than a healthy Torkoal, giving Chimecho free entry. Of course, this goes both ways. Your opponent can predict a resistance pivot because staying in with Magcargo is very risky.
I'm curious, why do you think Wigglytuff is superior to Lickitung? Lickitung has better special bulk with max HP max spdef investment and has access to knock off. Lickitung is a bit passive and only seems to fit on stall. Do you believe Wigglytuff has a role on more balanced teams where Lickitung does not?

 

[Bughouse]

You said it precisely. Wigglytuff isn't passive. It actually checks Huntail or Bellossom even better since you can threaten them back with Thunder(bolt) or Ice Beam/Flamethrower/Fire Blast, respectively. Lickitung kinda just sits there and unless you use a move other than Body Slam/SToss/Toxic/Heal Bell alongside Wish and Protect (and arguably Heal Bell is the main niche Lickitung has over Wigglytuff), you're giving free turns to Haunter. I'll grant you Knock Off is an interesting option that at least 2-hits Haunter's subs and is still generally useful, but, still, it remains just so, so passive.

Magcargo being ranked C is perfectly ok for it. It has a quite small niche and having absolutely zero counterplay to Diglett is very bad for it. I actually think it fits better outside of stall on somewhat more offensive teams, since it's probably the best switch in to Flareon in the tier. Stall can switch in with more reliable mons like bulky Wailord that don't necessarily fit on an offense.

 

[Heysup]

My opinions based on watching NUPL games and my own extensive testing with Heysup (note, I'm sure he disagrees with me on a good chunk of this anyway)

Rises:

• Flareon to S. I'd argue at this point in time it's the third best mon in the meta even, behind only Haunter and Chimecho.
• Raticate to A, sets used this NUPL show some versatility. As meta has become more offensive, its speed tier is all the more important.
• Huntail to A, similar to rat as meta becomes more offensive, Huntail's countersweeping potential has risen. Few teams pack dedicated counters like Rest Dewgong, so late game it has very high cleaning potential. It also has somewhat more defensive utility than its sunny counterpart Bellossom against key mons like Flareon and Metang.
• Vigoroth to B+, don't have specific reasoning other than it's better than everything in B- and a few things in B+.
• Grovyle to B+, Sub Petaya Endeavor has an almost worst case outcome of trading 1-1 and usually does much better than that. 95 speed tier is amazing. Somewhat viable at Pursuit Trapping Haunter.
• Wigglytuff to B-, it's actually better than Lickitung

Drops:

• Pidgeot shouldn't rise, if anything Golbat should fall to B+ with it. Birds aren't great right now but of the bunch Murk is pretty clearly the best, imo. Flying is better to lock into than Normal or Poison, period. I'd frankly be fine for Murkrow to drop to A- too. I will say Pidgeot's and Golbat's bulkier sets are probably somewhat underexplored. I've enjoyed using a bulkier set with protect and lefties on a sorta stall team quite a bit. I've tried the team with both mons in the roll, and found that Golbat does it quite well.
• Lickitung to C, it's actually worse than Wigglytuff
• Tropius to B+, not getting used and meta trends aren't kind to its style of bulky set up
• Cacturne to A-, quite clearly worse than Rose or Glalie at spiking in current meta. Still great if you're badly in need of a Haunter check, offering some amount of role compression.

New ranks:

• Voltorb and Seaking to C - full rain is something I do keep in the (way) back of my mind when reviewing a team for weaknesses, certainly more than i do most current C rank mons.

i actually agree with most of this. Flareon moving to S shouldn't be controversial at this point.

 

[Rabia]

My opinions based on watching NUPL games and my own extensive testing with Heysup (note, I'm sure he disagrees with me on a good chunk of this anyway)

Rises:

• Flareon to S. I'd argue at this point in time it's the third best mon in the meta even, behind only Haunter and Chimecho.
• Raticate to A, sets used this NUPL show some versatility. As meta has become more offensive, its speed tier is all the more important.
• Huntail to A, similar to rat as meta becomes more offensive, Huntail's countersweeping potential has risen. Few teams pack dedicated counters like Rest Dewgong, so late game it has very high cleaning potential. It also has somewhat more defensive utility than its sunny counterpart Bellossom against key mons like Flareon and Metang.
• Vigoroth to B+, don't have specific reasoning other than it's better than everything in B- and a few things in B+.
• Grovyle to B+, Sub Petaya Endeavor has an almost worst case outcome of trading 1-1 and usually does much better than that. 95 speed tier is amazing. Somewhat viable at Pursuit Trapping Haunter.
• Wigglytuff to B-, it's actually better than Lickitung

Drops:

• Pidgeot shouldn't rise, if anything Golbat should fall to B+ with it. Birds aren't great right now but of the bunch Murk is pretty clearly the best, imo. Flying is better to lock into than Normal or Poison, period. I'd frankly be fine for Murkrow to drop to A- too. I will say Pidgeot's and Golbat's bulkier sets are probably somewhat underexplored. I've enjoyed using a bulkier set with protect and lefties on a sorta stall team quite a bit. I've tried the team with both mons in the roll, and found that Golbat does it quite well.
• Lickitung to C, it's actually worse than Wigglytuff
• Tropius to B+, not getting used and meta trends aren't kind to its style of bulky set up
• Cacturne to A-, quite clearly worse than Rose or Glalie at spiking in current meta. Still great if you're badly in need of a Haunter check, offering some amount of role compression.

New ranks:

• Voltorb and Seaking to C - full rain is something I do keep in the (way) back of my mind when reviewing a team for weaknesses, certainly more than i do most current C rank mons.

Flareon and Raticate both definitely should rise. I don't rate Flareon as highly as you, i.e. above Wailord, but it's certainly proven to be far more elite than the rest of A+. Similarly, as you say with Raticate, its increased set diversity is really good for it.

Huntail I really can't see rising. Wailord is still omnipresent, and most teams pack at least another soft answer to Huntail. Even with the increase in offense, you still see a really good amount of Grass-type usage, in specific Roselia, Cacturne, and Bellossom, all of which give Huntail issues for roughly the same reasons.

Honestly, yeah, Vigoroth reasoning is about as good as I can come up with too...

I'd be cool with a Grovyle rise of any sort for sure; it gets far more usage than anything in C or even low B and is effective in practice.

I wouldn't drop Golbat for reasons I mentioned earlier. I just really value what Golbat offers defensively; it's a good offensive answer to Sunny Day Bellossom in addition to it benefitting like any of the other Flying- and Normal-types from the drop in Mawile usage. One less Steel-type to dissuade Sludge Bomb spam is just really good I feel.

re: Lickitung vs Wigglytuff: I've only used the former at all, and it was on some stall build. Knock Off + Heal Bell are both quite nice niches for it and help these teams a lot in the long game. I'd probably have these two in the same rank if anything.

I'm ambivalent about Tropius, but yeah it's been really absent this NUPL.

I'd still keep Cacturne in mid-A because it sort of just does a lot of small things pretty well, like disrupting teams with moves such as Encore and Leech Seed, checking annoying fucks like Haunter, and still setting Spikes. I could see a drop if only because of what it's competing with, though.

Some other thoughts: Pelipper should certainly drop for being essentially a worse Huntail or Wailord depending on the roll you want it for; Pikachu should be in the B ranks somewhere, much more threatening on paper than in practice; Octillery is overranked and should be high-B I think; maybe drop Mawile to low-B? I'm as big a fan of her as anyone, but she can be really hard to justify usage outside of Baton Pass because Metang is so good.

 

[BT89]

Here's two quick noms.



B- -> C

After some discussion with others, I have concluded that Abra is a pretty bad Pokemon in the current metagame. I find it very difficult to ever get any good out of it, mainly due to its nonexistent bulk making it worry about even resisted hits. Even if you finally start to get going, Abra gets walled by stuff like Chimecho and Sableye. I get the idea of Abra (forcing something out, Calm Mind, Endure + Salac to sweep), but it is so hard to accomplish when many physical threats in the tier are running Quick Attack right now, and it is slower than most physical threats, as well as Haunter, leaving it super vulnerable. In my opinion, Abra has too many flaws to really work on a game-to-game basis consistently and should drop to C.



B- -> A-/B+

Vigoroth is definitely undersold right now on the viability ranking, and should definitely rise in my opinion. He's probably the best or at least second-best Normal-type attacker right now. It has longevity in Slack Off, set up, isn't completely nullified by the Rocks and Steels in the tier, among other things. I don't have much else to say, its a good mon. Better than everything B- and some of B+.

 

[Disjunction]

hey y'all I wanted to post and say I'm probably not going to be involved in this format at all since I practically don't exist on this site at all. I still have a soft spot for this format, so I don't want to just let the vr sit and die, but I've also gotten ignored 3 times now while reaching out to people to take over. So if you're someone trustworthy and knowledgeable in the format and want to take over, hit me up on discord (sponcy#9171).

 

[PichuFlash]

I believe Dunsparce can work as an alternative to Kecleon. With a fair amount of bulk investment, he is only susceptible to a 5 hit KO from either Psychic or Thunderbolt from timid Haunter. His distinct benefit over Kecleon is his access to Pursuit. With some special attack investment, Pursuit delivers a 3 hit KO if Haunter stays in. This would translate into a 2 hit KO if he runs away. Pursuit on the switch does enough damage for a banded Golbat or Arbok Sludge Bomb to KO 100% of the time, putting a stop to Haunter's ability to pivot into and scare out these threats. He also isn't ruined by Will-O-Wisp burn with this special set. Regardless of the lack of investment and potential for burn, I think Serene Grace Body Slam is too good to pass up, and supports Dunsparce's team tremendously. It also bluffs the para-flinch set. I slotted Fire Blast and HP Grass to fully take advantage of the special investment needed for Pursuit to hit its 3 hit KO benchmark. Fire Blast and HP Grass nail common para-flinch Dunsparce switch-ins like Mawile, Metang, and the rocks. Unfortunately, Dunsparce seems to perform worse vs. Chimecho than Kecleon. Maybe some experimentation with Crunch, Shadow Ball, Calm Mind, or Psych Up can remedy this. On physically offensive teams that can muscle through Chimecho, but want Haunter forcefully removed, I believe Dunsparce is a good consideration. Here is the set which I've been referring to:

Dunsparce @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 64 HP / 192 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Pursuit
- Body Slam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Fire Blast

Some members of my discord have used it and found success on ladder.

 

[Rabia]

(yes I commented on these mons earlier but it was very brief)

Flareon is S rank and Raticate is A+ rank imo now. This NUPL showed the potential of both these Pokemon to be really insane. With Flareon we saw Endure + 3 Attacks from Heysup and Roseybear used to great success as a cleaner that has nasty coverage + power, and it really only needs chip on Chimecho and the bulky Water-types to go in. It benefits a lot from Pelipper usage being the lowest of all the Water-type options given it's the only one that really poses a consistent threat to it. Raticate is similar in that SubReversal sets with Liechi Berry popped off multiple times. It's probably the best Normal-type wallbreaker available too and is one of the reasons priority is much more a necessity as opposed to a luxury in the tier rn.

I could see a world in which S is broken up into high and low too. I think Wail + Chime + Haunter are pretty above the rest of the tier but that Metang + Flareon still deserve recognition up there.

 

[Rabia]

Gonna tag people that played ADV in the recent Snake tournament + ADV cup in Classic + other known people that are in tune with the tier to submit personal VRs so we can update the OP. No obligation to participate if you don't want to of course, just trying to reach out to as many people as possible here: Jisoo ArcticBreeze Raichy neomon Roseybear banks poh Heysup Bughouse Wamr Expulso Beraldinho (if you aren't tagged feel free to still submit a personal rankings, will do some internal vetting if need be to get more participants)

Mine is below, will include some justifications where I feel necessary:

S Rank

Chimecho
Flareon (has shown an incredibly high usage and success rate over the past two team tournaments, really versatile in set too---seen with Silk Scarf sets popping up now that make it really trivial to break Wailord and Dewgong)
Glalie (personally viewed as the best current Spiker with how offensive the metagame has shifted, just really easy to guarantee a layer compared to the Grass-type Spikers and preserves momentum super well)
Haunter
Metang
Wailord

A Rank

Top

Bellossom
Pupitar
Raticate (see my last post on this thread, the same applies now)
Roselia
Sableye
Torkoal

Mid

Cacturne
Dewgong
Hitmonchan
Murkrow
Plusle
Relicanth

Low

Diglett (not a consistent trapper at all, most targets you need significant chip damage on or just... don't trap depending on set (Agility Metang, Quick Attack Flareon for instance)
Golbat
Huntail
Pelipper
Octillery
Sudowoodo (doesn't fold to Hidden Power Grass coverage like Relicanth, strong lead in general)
Tropius

B Rank

High

Crawdaunt
Kecleon
Minun
Pidgeot
Pikachu
Venomoth
Vigoroth
Whiscash

Low

Abra
Arbok
Kingler (rozes rolled me with Salac Berry + Flail a couple times in tests...)
Lickitung
Mawile
Seadra
Tangela (so much worse than Bellossom, the ONLY time I ever can justify it is if my team desperately needs the extra physical bulk)
Wigglytuff (neomon used this to solid success; it's a less passive, specially bulky Normal-type compared to Lickitung that ends up being more splashable as a result)

C Rank

Delcatty
Dragonair
Graveler
Grovyle
Lairon
Ledian (it's only used on full pass, so moved it to be alongside Delcatty)
Piloswine
Poliwhirl
Shelgon
Swalot
Togetic
Wartortle
Yanma

Pokemon I unranked:

(originally ranked because it compresses SunnyBeamer + Hitmonchan check, but I think the fall off of the latter makes this a really hard Pokemon to justify ever)
(just use Metang + a Fire-type lol)
(there are better options for specially defensive Normal-type)
(Tail Glow pass has not been used since dinosaurs roamed the earth, no togkey Choice Band is not a valid set)

 

[Expulso]

agree with rabia's rankings mostly, here are the changes i'd personally make.
- wailord to s+; the S mons are all great but wail is king
- hitmonchan in a+ -- prio is great and choice or non-choice goes extremely hard vs non-sableye teams, and sab isnt the hardest mon to exploit
- drop roselia and torkoal from a+ to a, theyre far worse than stuff like sunnybeam bello & raticate
- swap golbat and murkrow (fight resist and generally better typing make the bat much more splashable with comparable power)
- :huntail" swap dewgong and huntail; i think dew is more on par with peli as a defensive water and huntail has quite high upside in a meta with spikes, many ways to wear down the waters/grasses that can check it, and little priority
- i'd also put pikachu in a- because arctic owned me with it in cup [and its speed tier is legitimately very good, it hits like a truck & spikes put a ton of things into KO range, very few real answers and you probably lose to it any time u rely on bell as wail check, run an offensive bell / cacturne, etc]
- sd kingler is sick id prob move it up to b+
- dunsparce has too much swag to not be ranked

 

[Glue]

I won't explain a whole lot but this is my take on the ADV NU meta
Everything is in order except for C- rank

S Rank

S Rank

The best mon in the tier
Water types are mandatory and Wailord is easily the best one
Best Offensive mon in the tier

S- Rank

Flail Salac Berry is broken, You need to make sure you have a mon with priority or a defensive counter/check such as Torkoal or Chimecho

A Rank

A+ Rank
Hitmonchan is very good, it can run a lot of cool sets such as Choice Band, Rapid Spin and Bulk Up. Having Mach Punch for HO mons such as Salac Berry Flareon and Raticate is super good too.




A Rank
Excellent Sweeper, Just use a Wailord lure and you can win most games by setting up Rain Dance







A- Rank
Great physical wall and one of the best answers to Pupitar, Its pretty spikes weak though.



Spdef Encore spikes is really cool, more people should try it.


B Rank

B+ Rank
I have not run this in tour play yet but I think Adamant Sleep Talk Pidgeot is class


I always wanted to use Plusle in tour play but I can never fit it on a team, most of the time I would rather use Haunter over Plusle.




B- Rank

Serene Grace Body Slam is broken


I am not a fan of pikachu since it's a double edged sword, it's very strong but also incredibly frail.



C Rank

C+ Rank
I don't really understand why Mawile gets spammed in tour play, Metang is better in every way. The only reason I can see a niche for Mawile is Baton Pass.
This mon sucks





C-









Leads

A+




A




A-





B

 

[Bughouse]

Here's my ranks, even ranking in strength order w/in the tiers (except C which I didn't order). Mostly in agreement w what Rabia is proposing, with all differences I would make being just half ranks, I think.

Unranking Koffing and Volbeat is totally fine, but I would prefer to keep Magcargo and Noctowl ranked in C, and I think Wigglytuff and Dunsparce should be in there too. Houndour I'm a bit less sure of but putting it in C is fine.
I'm also somewhat torn on putting Weepinbell, Seaking, Furret, and Castform on here in C or not, but I think leaving unranked is ok.
I'm also torn on whether or not I would unrank a few additional things, Lairon in particular, but I think they're all fine ultimately.
I generally take a slightly more of an expansive view of what merits ranking in C, since I'm a bit more willing to be experimental than most.

IMO Wailord is actually quite a bit less mandatory than S+ or even just top mon in S would imply. There are I think a lot of teams where people are somewhat lazily using Wailord when Dewgong, Pelipper, or Octillery would actually be better (or even like Whiscash in the case of competition for a defensive wailord). There just isn't the same sort of competition for what Chime, Metang, and Haunter do, and Flareon only sort of has competition from Torkoal.

S Rank

Flareon
Chimecho
Metang
Haunter
Wailord
Glalie

A Rank

Top

Bellossom
Sableye
Torkoal
Roselia
Raticate
Dewgong

Mid

Hitmonchan
Plusle
Relicanth
Pupitar
Cacturne
Pelipper

Low

Murkrow
Diglett
Huntail
Golbat
Octillery
Vigoroth

B Rank

High

Pidgeot
Sudowoodo
Pikachu
Whiscash
Tropius
Crawdaunt
Venomoth
Kingler

Low

Arbok
Mawile
Seadra
Kecleon
Minun
Abra
Grovyle
Tangela

C Rank

Lickitung
Delcatty
Dragonair
Graveler
Lairon
Ledian
Piloswine
Poliwhirl
Shelgon
Swalot
Togetic
Wartortle
Yanma
Magcargo
Noctowl
Wigglytuff
Dunsparce
Houndour

 

[ArcticBreeze]

- Viability Order
- There are more Pokémon that can be competitively used, but I don't care to decide whether fucking Abra is better than Dunsparce.

S Rank

S-1
Glalie
Wailord
Haunter

Chimecho
Metang

S-2
Flareon
Sableye
Raticate

A Rank

Top
Bellossom
Hitmonchan
----------------------- Notable Cutoff 1
Pelipper

Huntail

Mid

Octillery
Plusle
Pupitar
----------------------- Notable Cutoff 2

Roselia

Cacturne

Vigoroth

Pikachu

Low

Tropius

Torkoal

Golbat

Dewgong
----------------------- Notable Cutoff 3
B Rank

High

Seadra

Whiscash

Murkrow

Relicanth

Pidgeot

Mawile

Low

Minun

Crawdaunt

Sudowoodo

Wigglytuff

Kingler

Venomoth

Piloswine

 

[PichuFlash]

The picks in each tier aren't in any particular order. Some of my rankings are related to the specificity of the Pokemon's niche, and not necessary how "good" it is. Certain Pokemon, like Seaking or Sunflora, for example, would be much better in a vacuum where Huntail or Bellossom don't exist. But their rankings will be indicative of their meta game presence where those mons do exist to compete with them. I'm also putting ease-of-building into account. If a Pokemon requires very rigid structures to operate, but can be good within those structures, they will be lower. The rankings tab shows the abbreviated rankings without explanation.

S Tier

S Tier

Wailord

Most splashable mon in the tier. Fits on any kind of team. At low health, always has the option to Self Destruct and take a 1-for-1 trade. There is a reason why a solid water resist is mandatory on every team (and Wailord himself often takes this role himself)
------------------------------
Chimecho

Remarkably consistent. Heal Bell is always useful. Yawn sets are devastating on spikes. Has an excellent defensive profile, hits quite hard. Useful game-in and game-out. Not as good as Wailord.

S- Tier
Haunter

Dangerous sweeper, spikes abuser, special wall lure (with explosion). Excellent offensive threat. Not S tier because 1 miscalculated or overly aggressive switch-in means death, while Chimecho and Wailord have a greater margin for error.

Flareon

Impressive set variety, consistent choice. S- tier because they feel slightly less effective than the mons in S tier. My opinion on Flareon isn't set in stone.

Hitmonchan

Arguably the best lead in the tier MU-wise (beats Flareon, Torkoal, Wailord, CB set beats Metang, limits Glalie to 1 layer at worst; at best can use Brick Break into Mach Punch and freely spin the spike later; loses to Venomoth, beats niche Ponyta, Seadra, Minun leads). Easily the best spinner in the tier. Has access to the best priority move in the tier (Mach Punch), is one of few good checks to Dragon Dance Pupitar. Bulk up is underrated, Choice Band is a nightmare to switch around. Only S- tier because an incorrect prediction gives Haunter or Chimecho entry. Haunter in particular is very dangerous to allow onto the field for free. Hitmonchan is underrated.

A Tier

A+ Tier
Roselia

Incredibly easy to throw on any team. Reliable Wailord check (as far as those go), but one Ice Beam prediction on the switch loses you the MU. Spikes are excellent in the tier, as always, since the only good spinner is Hitmonchan (Wartortle on stall is very niche). Aromatherapy is great utility, as is Synthesis.

Glalie

Lead meta game is built around countering Glalie, either limiting him to one layer of spikes or outright denying any. In spite of this, Glalie remains a top mon. In unfavorable MUs, Glalie can always explode and force a 1-for-1 trade, or run away to save the Explosion for a later point (like blowing up on a Calm Mind Chimecho). Light Screen is a criminally underutilized option that allows Glalie to lay up Light Screen turn one, and a layer of spikes turn two in the face of Flareon, Torkoal, and Wailord (and still have enough health to put down another layer or blow up on Wailord turn three). A mid-game spdef Light Screen set that checks Haunter and Chimecho is surprisingly useful. Offensive tempo of the current meta game is very suited for Glalie.

Torkoal

Great defensive utility, provides teams with a solid backbone. Can operate like a pseudo-normal resist to support Metang in his job to guard against CB mons. Checks offensive grasses. Explosion brings the pain. Doesn't have as much set variability as Flareon. Has a tendency to invite Wailord and Flareon onto the field. Can effectively spread Toxic and limit these threats, but that takes a while to take hold. Wailord in particular has ample time to fire off a couple attacks and explode.

A Tier

Metang

A good pick, but overrated in my opinion. Can't reliably check physical attackers over the course of a prolonged game, one correct HP Ground prediction and Metang is in trouble, is susceptible to being 2 hit KO'd by CB normal attacks from that point forward as it comes in. As a lead they can force a 1-for-1 trade with a spdef Explosion set and take any one hit. Choice Band is a hugely destructive mid-game threat, assuming you've lured and removed Wailord. Agility is the same story. Meteor Mash's ability to boost attack can be game-ending. Has good defensive utility and wall breaks effectively. I just don't think it is good enough to throw on every team. The spdef set isn't something I'd rely on over a prolonged game to handle Chimecho and Haunter.

Huntail

Sweeping with Huntail just feels more intuitive than sweeping with Bellossom. Explosion Wailord is pretty much the most perfect partner possible. Explodes on anything that would inhibit a Huntail sweep. Bellossom can be paired with lures like Explosion Haunter for a similar idea, but Haunter has a tendency to draw in a wider array of pokemon than Wailord does- not necessarily mons that would inhibit Bellossom's sweep (ex: Cacturne, Mightyena, Spdef Metang, Spdef Chimecho, etc...) Bellossom has the benefit of having Sleep Powder and Synthesis. Both of which allow Bellossom to stick around and set the sun multiple times. Huntail can't reset his weather as reliably, and needs his road blocks cleared before cleaning up. Huntail is also an excellent member of Baton Pass chains as a Barrier passer.

Pupitar

Has the most game-ending potential of any sweeper in the tier. One Dragon Dance is often enough to clean a game. If not, the Substitute Liechi Berry set can provide that extra power. Three attack sets with Earthquake, Rock Slide, Hidden Power Bug are good as well. Pupitar is weak to Mach Punch but doesn't mind other priority. They enjoy spikes support to soften up their few checks. Their defensive utility is very limited, but their only objective is to find one single safe turn to setup Dragon Dance.

Bellossom

Sweeper set cleans up games nicely. Sleep Powder gives ample opportunity to reset the sun and continually bludgeon the opponent. Spdef set is the most no-nonsense Wailord check in the tier. Only problem with the Spdef set is that Bellossom can't run Spikes, so Roselia is an alluring replacement.

A- Tier

Pikachu

Arguably the scariest threat in the tier from behind a Substitute. Pikachu's coverage and power makes them a fearsome wall breaker. Surf and Light Ball are the two differentiating factors that give Pikachu a niche over Plusle/ Minun on some teams.

Plusle

The Substitute Petaya Berry set is my favorite by far. Synergizes excellently well with Diglett because you can baton pass from behind a sub in front of Flareon, Kecleon, etc.. and get in Diglett safely for the trap. Synergizes well with your own BP offensive Flareon too because they cover each others bad MU's. Great spikes abuser. Plusle has a lot going for them, and they always accomplish something of value. Has a similar feel to Haunter, but doesn't have the extra options that make Haunter unpredictable like Will-O-Wisp, Explosion, Destiny Bond.

Pidgeot

I'm a huge advocate for Choice Band Pidgeot right now. I'd recommend running Return over Double Edge. The added longevity is huge for letting Pidgeot repeatedly come onto the field and harass the enemy team. It also lets you fully utilize his decent bulk and spikes immunity. A full health Pidgeot can actually 1 v. 1 an offensive Wailord and win the MU with Return (Double Edge recoil would usually kill you). Metang is the most common normal resist by far, and Pidgeot can break him. Offensive swing of the meta game has benefitted him tremendously.

Sableye

Has quite a bit of set variety. Excellent longevity, checks Haunter and Chimecho reliably. Simultaneously shuts down CB normal attackers. Underrated right now.

B Tier

B+ Tier

Minun

A slightly less strong, slightly bulkier version of Plusle. Works as a superior agility pass lead on Baton Pass, works as a superior screens setter. Is an inferior Petaya Berry abuser. Overall it is seen a lot less often, and on more niche builds. But I can't justify putting Minun a lot lower than Plusle when they are so similar.

Crawdaunt

A simple Surf, Crunch, Ice Beam, Knock Off set can be absurdly effective. Comes into Chimecho for free, and comes into Metang easily too (and with some speed investment you outrun max speed adamant Metang, makes the MU safer). Breaks down defensive cores like nothing else. Has no switchins because of Knock Off. Coverage Ice Beam destroys Roselia. More sturdy grasses like Bellossom are permanently hindered by Knock Off. Just a very strong wall-breaker that fits the meta game well, courtesy of Chimecho and Metang.

Dewgong

Competes with Wailord. STAB Ice Beam is a great differentiating factor. My favorite set is Surf, Ice Beam, Rest, Sleep Talk with max HP and max Spa Modest. Problem is, Dewgong can't fit all the moves it wants. Without HP electric, you can hardly say Dewgong checks opposing waters. Dropping Rest Talk hurts, because on an offensive water with three attacks, I'm usually inclined to swap them out for Wailord and put Self-Destruct in that last slot. Still majorly threatening, good on balance. Perish Song is cool utility but I find it hard to fit. Encore is good too, but I find it hard to justify when the only real target is Calm Mind Chimecho, who can easily Psychic on the switch as Dewgong comes in. Typing has some shortcomings. Meteor Mash neutrality makes them unreliable as a sole CB Metang check. Fighting weakness means you need to pair them with a Chimecho or Tropius (or another Hitmonchan check). This isn't hard to do, considering Chimecho is a top mon.

Octillery

Nothing in the tier wants to switch into Octillery. Surf, Fire Blast, HP Electric cover all the relevant bases. Thunder Wave nails anything that isn't immediately threatened by Octillery's coverage. In fact, he feels like the most reliable paralysis spreader in the tier. He is also the best baton pass recipient in the tier. He doesn't see much usage because of competition with Wailord on standard teams. On teams with slow wall breakers, I can see Octillery facilitating their effectiveness in a way that Wailord can't match. He is an excellent lead as well, I'd say better than Wailord in that role.

Golbat

Surprisingly great defensive profile, reminds me a lot of Haunter. Spikes immune offensive menace. In the context of the current meta game where Mawile usage and Relicanth usage are low, his lack of Earthquake is much less of a hindrance than it would be otherwise. Hidden Power Ground is sufficient for breaking Metang, easily. Has trouble breaking Torkoal.

Vigoroth

Hard to justify putting Pidgeot and Raticate this high and not Vigoroth. Access to Bulk Up, Earthquake, and Slack Off are all huge for a physical attacker in this tier. He packs longevity and power. Finds himself being free entry for Haunter often, because it is so hard to justify dropping his excellent moves to make room for Shadow Ball. People do run Shadow Ball sets, but I personally struggle with it. Doesn't have great points of entry, requires some aggressive play to get onto the field. Harder to put on a team than Pidgeot. The Spdef set has better points of entry, but the loss of speed hurts. Lead set can deny Glalie spikes and hurt all of the other leads reasonably well, but generally another lead is better.

Raticate

Pidgeot is largely superior as a CBer in my opinion. The Reversal set is what I'm impressed by. It is incredibly threatening, in part because the opponent may expect Choice Band and allow Raticate a free turn to lay up a Substitute. The Reversal set also destroys traditional CB Raticate hard counters like Relicanth and Mawile. Better of the two sets by far.

Murkrow

Very dangerous offensive threat. Drill Peck can two hit KO anything that isn't a flying resist. Checks both Chimecho and sweeper Bellossom. My main problem with Murkrow is that one poor prediction means death. That is a dangerous prospect when it is their job to check such imposing threats. Haunter has a similar problem, where one poor prediction means death. However, Haunter's defensive profile is a lot more dynamic (immune to normal, ground, fighting, quad resistant to poison), and Haunter has freedom to choose any item it wants, and keep the opponent guessing if he'll attack or substitute or status. Murkrow needs to run Choice Band.

Cacturne

Good mon, checks Chimecho, Haunter. Mixed sets with Focus Punch are fun, as are full physical sets and Sand Veil abuse sets. Spdef set can check Wailord to an extent, but with no synthesis he can't last forever; needs secondary support in that role. Harder to throw on teams than Roselia.

B Tier

Arbok

In a meta game where Mawile and Relicanth are more common, I think Arbok would be superior to Golbat. However, with the most common normal resist being Metang, Golbat has an edge right now. Arbok is spikes vulnerable and weak to Hitmonchan's common Earthquake coverage (Golbat is weak to Rock Slide from chan but that is much rarer). He is slower than Golbat (and slightly stronger), but realistically that just means he misses out on the base 90 speed ties. Nothing with base speed between 80 and 90 is too relevant. Leftovers Glare sets have potential.

Magcargo

Best Flareon counter in the entire tier. Good glue mon, combines the defensive profiles of Metang and Torkoal. Needs some team support to cover fighting, ground, water weaknesses. Pretty underrated. With the rise of Flareon to S tier in a lot of peoples' minds, and the influx of Raticate, Pidgeot, Murkrow I believe Magcargo is a heads-up option in the current meta.

Whiscash

Really good Metang check. Also checks Haunter fairly well (unless it is Giga Drain). Only itself, defensive Tangela, and defensive Chimecho can be called legitimate Dragon Dance Pupitar checks. Issue is that it can compete with Wailord for a team slot and gives Bellossom, Cacturne, Chimecho easy entry. Earthquake nails Roselia, and EVing to outspeed Rose is feasible, so at least that isn't a problem. Just more specialized and harder to build with than Wailord, and has a smaller role in the scheme of the meta game because of that.

Pelipper

Single best Metang check in the tier. Also the water-equivalent to Tropius, in the respect that it is a specialized Hitmonchan check. A water type that can't check waters (because HP electric coverage). Good mon, but requires team support. Also can potentially run an agility set and sweep (but Huntail is better for that role).

Piloswine

Underrated. The destructive power of Choice Band cannot be overstated. Piloswine finds its way onto the field vs. Haunter, Plusle/Minun, and resisted poison attacks. Always leaves a sizable mark on the opponent. Can also run a cool Light Screen lure set.

Diglett

I'm not a huge fan, but certain teams facilitate him. Diglett is only good with a select few partners. Notably, BP Mawile, BP Flareon, BP Plusle, and Encore users. On teams without these mons, Diglett is strictly on revenge-kill duty. Since mons like Chimecho and Haunter can easily take advantage of a Diglett locked into Earthquake, I'd say choosing a better revenge killer that doesn't enable these threats is preferable.

Kingler

Underrated offensive threat. Also runs a mean Knock Off set on stall

Kecleon

Checks Chimecho and Haunter more reliably than almost anything. Good pokemon but I find myself being taken advantage of when I run it. With Flareon commonly running mixed sets, he can't reliably handle them. Unless you are Focus Punch, Pupitar gets free setup in front of you. Torkoal and Metang can come into Kecleon repeatedly with little fear (unless the Metang is offensive and dislikes being paralyzed). Checks sweeper Bellossom, and is an effective secondary check to the offensive waters.

Relicanth

Has some excellent traits, but his typing means he can only really check normal/flying attackers and Metang. Fires destroy him with HP Grass coverage. Relicanth usage is on a down swing currently. If the normal attackers really pick up steam, I can see him climbing back. EVing Relicanth is a challenge because you want some speed to not be helpless vs Roselia, you want some attack to not be passive in this more-offensive meta game, and you obviously want some bulk. He is also hard to slot on a team; something like Metang or Torkoal are more splashable and fill similar roles.

Venomoth

Only really operates as a lead. Is ruined by Lum Berry Glalie. Has a 25% chance to face death vs Torkoal, Flareon leads. Sleep Powder turn one is risky business. I will give Venomoth some credit, they can grant Baton Pass teams and offensive teams a strong start if the Sleep Powder does land. But usually offensive teams just slot lead Glalie and find room for Sleep Powder on a sweeper Bellossom, Hypnosis Chimecho, etc... if they really want sleep. Faces competition as a Baton Pass lead from Minun, Ledian, Shedinja (yes, I think Baton Pass has a lot of niche lead options that can work well).

Sudowoodo

Good lead with either a Substitute Focus Punch set or Choice Band. Can bust some holes in the early game. A bit hard to fit on a team and justify using over a normal resist with more longevity for the mid-game, or another phys attacker like Hitmonchan as a lead.

Tangela

One of few adequate Dragon Dance Pupitar checks in the tier. Phys. def set can also check Hitmonchan (unless it is bulk up). Tangela has the option to run a sweeper set with Sunny Day. He has more natural speed and power than Bellossom, but his setup opportunities are rarer. I don't think Tangela is bad at all, but they're hard to fit on a team.

Yanma

He's kinda like Reversal Raticate, except he isn't susceptible to being revenge killed by Salac users. However, Yanma lacks the surprise factor that Raticate has. His coverage is imperfect when compared to Raticate, but fighting + flying is historically great and covers most of the bases. To be honest I wasn't sure where to place Yanma.

B- Tier

Tropius

Specialized Hitmonchan check. A grass type that can't check waters (because Ice Beam coverage). But, it is also a grass type that dumpsters Roselia, which is nice. Their flagship Swords Dance, HP Flying, Earthquake, Synthesis set is very fun to use and effective. They just don't fit the mold of the meta game well enough to be a common choice. Specialized.

Mawile

In the context of the modern meta game, I would only run SD pass Mawile. That particular set is underrated, and can end some games on the spot. Has problems finding setup opportunity when Wailord, Flareon, Torkoal, Chimecho, etc.. all nail it. Only real safe setup is Roselia, CB normal attackers, and CB Metang locked into Meteor Mash. Still, the SD pass set is so potentially dangerous that it deserves consideration.
Wigglytuff

Basically a more balance-friendly version of Lickitung. Loses Knock Off, but gains more Spa. Checks sweeper Huntail and Bellossom fairly well with Fire Blast + Thunderbolt coverage and Wish + Protect. Still potential setup food for other threats like DD Pupitar and Calm Mind Chimecho, Bulk Up Hitmonchan; but less so than Lickitung. I wouldn't rely on Wigglytuff entirely to check special threats, they are more of something to use in combination with another less-reliable check (like Spdef Cacturne vs Wailord, they appreciate the wish support from Wigglytuff, also aid vs Chimecho).

Lickitung

Access to Knock Off differentiates Lickitung from the other Wish passers. Cool choice on stall. Far too passive to be used on any other team style. Finds itself being taken advantage of by setup threats. I'd pair him with a bulky roar Wailord most often.

Swalot

I need to use them a bit more to be certain of placement. Harder to slot on teams than the other poisons. Speed means they are forced to take an Earthquake from Hitmonchan without getting off the first hit (unlike Golbat and Arbok). Checks Sunny Day Bellossom much more reliably than the other poisons. Specially offensive set has potential, as do Rest Talk stall sets. I can see my opinion of Swalot changing to B at some point.

Seadra

Lead set forces Glalie into a bad position where if he spikes, Seadra gets a free Substitute and 2 hit KO's with Hydro Pump. If Glalie attacks the Substitute repeatedly, Seadra goes into Petaya Berry range and blows Glalie away with Hydro Pump. Glalie cannot force a trade with Seadra lead (unlike Wailord lead), which is why I view his niche as valuable, and not just a lesser Wailord. Beats Flareon, Torkoal, and Metang leads, can chip Wailord very badly with Petaya boosted HP electric. Only B- because his role is small in the scheme of the meta game, but he can be very fearsome in the right game.

Ponyta

Similar in function to lead Seadra, but threatens Glalie with an OHKO immediately without Substitute shenanigans. Has a worse matchup spread against the lead metagame at large than Seadra. Loses to Flareon, Torkoal, Wailord. Still beats Metang. Also has access to Hypnosis. Behind a substitute, a Fire Blast, HP Grass, Hypnosis, Petaya Berry Ponyta can cause a ton of damage. Pops off in some games. Only this low because they are specialized.

Mightyena

Simultaneously checks Chimecho, Haunter, and Pupitar. Nice combination of traits. Gets taken advantage of by Flareon, Wailord, Roselia, Cacturne, Hitmonchan. Has cool utility moves. Competes with other Chimecho + Haunter checks in the tier for a team slot.

Seviper

Strong wall breaker with excellent coverage options. Super fun to use. Problem is that their points of entry are a lot less safe and concrete than say, Crawdaunt. They can come into Hitmonchan fighting STAB, but then chan can nail them with an Earthquake because Seviper is slower than chan. Roselia and Sableye are their safest points of entry. Seviper really craves more speed. Pairing him with a paralysis spreader is an almost necessary measure.

Dunsparce

Underutilized. The para flinch set can be a nightmare. He is also the most reliable Haunter Pursuit trapper in the tier with a special set that bluffs the para flinch set. Hard to concretely fit on teams, but his potential is certainly there.

Lairon

Unique typing gives him a valuable niche. Normal and flying type attacks bounce off of him. Ground coverage destroys him unfortunately, but the same can be said for a lot of normal resists of the tier. Spdef roar set is a good check to Calm Mind Chimecho. You're also a steel type that is neutral to fire moves, and a rock type who is neutral to grass, so you can operate as a Flareon, Torkoal check. Toxic immunity makes a Lefties + Protect set pretty safe to operate.

Graveler

Operates similarly to Sudowoodo as a more offense-oriented normal resist with Explosion. Graveler lacks the set versatility of Sudowoodo (Sub Punch/Choice Band) and is obligated to run Choice Band. However, he does have the excellent ground + rock STAB combo that makes Pupitar so dangerous. Graveler's typing prevents him from effective lead usage. In situations where lead Sudowoodo could take a super effective hit, survive, and dish out big damage; Graveler gets OHKO'd (ex: Hidden Power Grass from Flareon). He can be dangerous in the mid-game. Not a bad option.

Noctowl

Checks sweeper Bellossom because of his excellent special bulk and Insomnia. Has a role on some spikes teams as a Whirlwind shuffler and Hypnosis spreader.

C Tier

C+ Tier
Ledian

Solid agility passer and screens setter, particularly on full BP chains. Can generally only accomplish this pass once, doesn't have any instant recovery to heal and try for a second pass. Rest in combination with Early Bird deserves some experimentation, but Ledian is still on the niche outskirts of the meta game regardless. Not bad, but quite specific.

Butterfree

Pretty much guaranteed sleep move, good speed, decent special attack stat. Butterfree has games where they shine. But, they are frail with limited defensive utility vs Hitmonchan and the grasses. They don't fit a concrete role in the team builder. Just hard to build with and use, I'd rather use another frail mon with more power in most cases, or a sweeper Bellossom if I really crave sleep.

Delcatty

Exclusively a fixture on Baton Pass chains. Performs their niche of Calm Mind passer admirably. Can't do anything beyond that niche.

Seaking

Good in a vacuum where Huntail doesn't exist. As it stands, their niche over Huntail is access to Megahorn, and speed that allows them to outrun Salac Berry Haunter under rain (which is very unique for a sweeper, keeps Haunter from reverse sweeping you). These benefits are just pretty specific in the scheme of things. Seaking's major drawback is his base 65 special stat. He can't afford to go Modest because he needs +speed nature to hit the Haunter benchmark. His power is just a bit underwhelming, appreciates spikes support. Doesn't require an Explosion Wailord lure as much as Huntail does because Megahorn nails Bellossom. I wouldn't advocate for dropping Wailord, because he is the best mon in the tier, but you could run a 3 attacks Toxic set and have the benefit of keeping your Wailord around. Toxic chip and spikes could be sufficient in chipping Spdef Bellossom into Megahorn range. Wailord can also keep Explosion, but save it for opposing waters rather than opposing grasses. Again, Seaking isn't bad. They just exist in a tier where Huntail is generally better.

Shedinja

Walls offensive waters, non-Toxic Metang, non-Wisp Haunter. A Choice Band set has a lot of potential. STAB ghost isn't handled well by the tier at all. I believe it can be awesome on an offensive team with Rapid Spin Hitmonchan support and some anti-Glalie measures. Has a potential role on Baton Pass early in the chain to wall Wailord. Can become dead weight mid-game for Baton Pass if the opponent litters the field with spikes; after seeing a Shedinja your opponent would probably do this. Funnily enough, this might be a good thing for the chain at large. The opponent laying spikes is an ideal scenario to boost up. On another note, Shedinja actually walls opposing Baton Pass chains, which is just hilarious. Ends those games on the spot unless the chain has a cleric Flareon or something.

Abra

Late-game sweeper that is weak to priority and has a lot of road blockers to its sweep. Between Flareon, Chimecho, Sableye, Kecleon he has problems cleaning up. Combine this with the fact that his base 90 speed falls short of a lot of prominent offensive mons, and you have an inconsistent sweeper. SweetPatata and I have experimented with a lead set, think of it as a similar concept to Calm Mind Raikou lead in OU. Mixed results, but I certainly wouldn't call it bad. It does trap Glalie in a lose-lose lead scenario similar to Seadra, Ponyta, and Substitute Venomoth.

Shuckle

Unique combination of checking physical threats while simultaneously checking Sunny Day Bellossom. Checks Calm Mind Chimecho too (and other opportunistic setup threats) because Encore. Can be surprisingly effective with specific partners. Can give the opponent a headache if you throw him hard enough.

Parasect

Niche Pursuit mon that can beat non-HP Ice Haunter pretty consistently. 100% accurate sleep move. Not a bad mon, but after its initial Spore it can kill offensive momentum on subsequent turns. It's bulk is ok. Grass bug typing provides cool role-compression; can check Hitmonchan while still checking the offensive waters. Unfortunately, this doesn't really work because he has no recovery moves. Parasect has its moments and games where it really causes destruction, just not consistently.

Houndour

Exists to delete Chimecho. He is less effective at trapping Haunter, but it is possible. Deleting Chimecho is important if you want to facilitate a Choice Band Hitmonchan in particular.

Clamperl

Can be a devastating Baton Pass recipient. Generally Octillery's power is sufficient enough to sweep, and his extra bulk is much appreciated. Clamperl doesn't see much usage.

Wartortle

Alternative to Rapid Spin Hitmonchan on stall. Checks Metang pretty well. Foresight set ruins Sableye. Can be a bit passive. SweetPatata has been experimenting with Yawn sets on more offensive spikes teams, did better than I expected. Has some potential. Right now, he's a niche pick on a niche team style.

Meditite

Has a really cool role on full Baton Pass chains as a secondary sweeper to your Octillery. Has Baton Pass itself along with Recover, Bulk Up, Calm mind. I've run Brick Break, Shadow Ball, Recover, Baton Pass and beaten a CM Chimecho before passing away to continue the chain. Allows you to play a bit more aggressive before going for the final sweep. You also aren't helpless if Octillery goes down. I thought a hit-and-run Choice Bander had potential, but their speed falls just short of being good enough (if they were base 70 I'd try some slow BP partners to get them in safely, but base 60 falls short of Flareon, Chimecho, too slow). They also have potential as a Salac Berry Reversal sweeper. Weak to priority, but that's just the nature of the game with Reversal/Flail mons.

Shelgon

A Dragon Dance sweeper that feels like a combination of Pupitar and CB Raticate. It has normal-type coverage (minus the STAB) and the boosting option of Pupitar (but lacks Pupitar's excellent STAB combo). I'd say Shelgon is an inadequate in-between, and you'd rather use either option. He just feels underwhelming. Defensive Wish passer sets are very specific to stall teams, and even then, his lack of physical resistances makes it unreliable.

Sunflora

Stronger than Bellossom, but crucially much slower. Also has a worse sleep move than Bellossom in the 55% accurate Grass Whistle. Might have a small niche as a Light Screen setter.

Poliwhirl

Baton Pass recipient who only requires a Substitute/ a free turn to get off a Belly Drum and sweep. Can end some games on the spot. Inconsistent because passing an intact sub is difficult if your opponent plays aggressively, Poliwhirl's base 90 speed is good but not great for sweeping (same problem as Abra), and he is vulnerable to priority. Still not a bad strategy at all.

Volbeat

Can be potent on occasion. Tail Glow pass can make a special sweeper unstoppable. A Choice Band set has major surprise factor and nails the opponent with STAB Signal Beam. Base 85 speed is more than enough for a hit-and-run offensive threat. Their bulk is pretty miserable, so it is hard to get consistent entry onto the field. Access to Baton Pass means that Volbeat can pair with Diglett to safely trap Flareon, Metang, weakened Torkoal who attempt to handle CB attacks. Has some potential to rise.

C Tier

Natu

Has potential to act as a pseudo-Chimecho, but with the option to pass their Calm Minds. Can also go all-in on Calm Mind + Wish passing on Baton Pass similar to Delcatty. Needs to be experimented with. Provides crucial fighting resist for Baton Pass teams who often can't switch into Hitmonchan safely before getting off some Iron Defense/Barrier boosts.

Spinda

Can act as a Calm Mind passer like Delcatty, but their base 60 speed (compared to Delcatty's 70) makes them the inferior choice almost every time. You can't even get cute with Teeter Dance on Baton Pass chains because you need Calm Mind, Wish, Protect, and Baton Pass to function.

Beautifly

I tried to find a niche for it, but its stats and movepool are just worse than already-niche options. Butterfree is strictly better.

Rankings

S

S-

A+

A

A-

B+

B

B-

C+

C

Sprites

 

[Jisoo]

My rankings. I don't consider myself a very creative builder, and I tend to stay within the mold of using mostly S- and A-rank Pokemon. Taking more risks in the builder (besides using random Pikachu's :D) is definitely the thing I need to work on the most. I consider myself an offense player first and foremost and my rankings are biased to reflect this. I really don't play enough tournament ADV NU games (8? max, every ADV NU team tournament) to speak on the lower ranks and their niches.

With that said, let's get to it. Top 5 are ordered.

S+ ranks

Wailord is the best Pokemon in ADV NU. Great stats all around, a movepool that is almost as wide as the Pokemon itself, a key typing, and most importantly enables what I believe to be the most potent offensive strategies with it's wallbreaking. Whenever Wailord makes it onto the field unthreatened, something is taking a lot of damage (unless you miss a fully invested Hydro lol - I think this is it's main issue and is absolutely the worst feeling). Lot of unexplored options on this Poke that can easily turn the tide of the battle. I place a lot of value in a Pokemon's ability to trade with other top threats, and Wailord trades well with almost all of them. In practice this Pokemon ends up putting in the most work very often. It's presence warps the meta to be more offensive, and all teams must have a specific plan to deal with it. Nothing else comes close to having all these qualities.




S- ranks



A+ ranks







A ranks








A- ranks


this Pokemon is a real threat in the lead




B ranks, this is my cutoff of viability in a tournament setting










Using Diglett will only leave you frustrated.

 

[Rabia]

Hi, I consolidated the votes from the (qualified) VRs posted here, and this is the result.

A couple notes: Expulso's votes that he did not specify were reflected to be my own given his claim that he agreed with my VR with some caveats. Roseybear did not vote on many Pokemon, so I simply did not assign a vote to them because I didn't want to assume he meant to unrank Pokemon. Jisoo is a similar case, and I took their B-rank Pokemon to mean "high B." Naturally, if there are any issues with how this was handled by those affected, let me know.

S Rank

High

Chimecho
Haunter
Wailord

Low

Flareon(?)
Glalie(?)
Metang(?)

A Rank

High

Bellossom
Hitmonchan
Pupitar
Raticate
Roselia
Sableye

Mid

Cacturne
Dewgong
Huntail
Plusle
Relicanth
Torkoal

Low

Diglett(?)
Golbat(?)
Murkrow(?)
Octillery
Pelipper
Pikachu

B Rank

High

Crawdaunt
Kecleon
Pidgeot
Sudowoodo(?)
Tropius(?)
Venomoth
Vigoroth(?)
Whiscash

Low

Abra
Arbok
Dunsparce
Kingler
Lickitung
Mawile
Minun
Seadra
Tangela
Wigglytuff

C Rank

Delcatty
Dragonair
Graveler
Grovyle
Houndour
Lairon
Ledian
Magcargo
Piloswine
Poliwhirl
Shelgon
Swalot
Togetic
Wartortle
Yanma

---

You'll notice a few Pokemon with a ? next to their name. This is because of the votes being split weirdly enough to where I think additional discussion on them holds significant merit. I'll give a brief explanation for each of them:

I'm including all of the low-S rank because there was a bit of a split over whether they're truly S or still A+. This is mostly a case of deciding if only keeping the "big three" in S is the best course of action and just acknowledging that while these three would be the best in high A, they're still not quite there. Personally, I think having S split into two subranks works well, but there's varying opinion about where Flareon and even Glalie fit in the ranking hierarchy.

We had a bit of discussion in the NU Discord recently about the Flying-type wallbreakers, in particular Murkrow and Golbat. Both offer some really nice defensive traits, but Murkrow's recent low usage and poor success rate had most voters end up wanting to drop it; it's just not that effective in practice due to the poor bulk. Golbat, however, has a fair bit more going for it, still checking Bellossom but also providing a crucial Fighting resistance. Votes were simply split evenly here, so I want to bring up these two and get a bit more talk about them. applies here too I guess lol.

Diglett has all but vanished from competitive play. It's super hard to support because trapping with it requires getting Diglett onto the field safely and oftentimes significantly weakening the trap target. Other than Jisoo, though, no one really committed to nuking Diglett down to the depths of low-B rank. Frankly, I'm quite open to doing so, but I'd like to hear others' opinions too.

Sudowoodo is just a case of votes being split and me thinking there's enough justification to rise it. Yes, I am biased. Cope.

Everyone voted to raise Vigoroth, but to where we weren't sure. Most people voted just to high-B rank, so that's where I put it, but we had it voted as high as mid-A rank. Is another small bump to low-A rank warranted to adjust for the "outlier" vote?

Bro fell off hard after 2019 NUPL. Most were in favor of a small drop, but Roseybear went and voted it all the way down to C rank eek. Should it fall another subrank?

---

Of course, other rankings can be discussed too, but the above ones are which I think deserve the most focus. It's here where I really want to invite everyone to speak their piece; I'll be paying attention to all posts here. Depending on how discussion goes, I'll implement these changes by the end of March.

 

[Glue]

Hi, I consolidated the votes from the (qualified) VRs posted here, and this is the result.

A couple notes: Expulso's votes that he did not specify were reflected to be my own given his claim that he agreed with my VR with some caveats. Roseybear did not vote on many Pokemon, so I simply did not assign a vote to them because I didn't want to assume he meant to unrank Pokemon. Jisoo is a similar case, and I took their B-rank Pokemon to mean "high B." Naturally, if there are any issues with how this was handled by those affected, let me know.

S Rank

High

Chimecho
Haunter
Wailord

Low

Flareon(?)
Glalie(?)
Metang(?)

A Rank

High

Bellossom
Hitmonchan
Pupitar
Raticate
Roselia
Sableye

Mid

Cacturne
Dewgong
Huntail
Plusle
Relicanth
Torkoal

Low

Diglett(?)
Golbat(?)
Murkrow(?)
Octillery
Pelipper
Pikachu

B Rank

High

Crawdaunt
Kecleon
Pidgeot
Sudowoodo(?)
Tropius(?)
Venomoth
Vigoroth(?)
Whiscash

Low

Abra
Arbok
Dunsparce
Kingler
Lickitung
Mawile
Minun
Seadra
Tangela
Wigglytuff

C Rank

Delcatty
Dragonair
Graveler
Grovyle
Houndour
Lairon
Ledian
Magcargo
Piloswine
Poliwhirl
Shelgon
Swalot
Togetic
Wartortle
Yanma

---

You'll notice a few Pokemon with a ? next to their name. This is because of the votes being split weirdly enough to where I think additional discussion on them holds significant merit. I'll give a brief explanation for each of them:

I'm including all of the low-S rank because there was a bit of a split over whether they're truly S or still A+. This is mostly a case of deciding if only keeping the "big three" in S is the best course of action and just acknowledging that while these three would be the best in high A, they're still not quite there. Personally, I think having S split into two subranks works well, but there's varying opinion about where Flareon and even Glalie fit in the ranking hierarchy.

We had a bit of discussion in the NU Discord recently about the Flying-type wallbreakers, in particular Murkrow and Golbat. Both offer some really nice defensive traits, but Murkrow's recent low usage and poor success rate had most voters end up wanting to drop it; it's just not that effective in practice due to the poor bulk. Golbat, however, has a fair bit more going for it, still checking Bellossom but also providing a crucial Fighting resistance. Votes were simply split evenly here, so I want to bring up these two and get a bit more talk about them. applies here too I guess lol.

Diglett has all but vanished from competitive play. It's super hard to support because trapping with it requires getting Diglett onto the field safely and oftentimes significantly weakening the trap target. Other than Jisoo, though, no one really committed to nuking Diglett down to the depths of low-B rank. Frankly, I'm quite open to doing so, but I'd like to hear others' opinions too.

Sudowoodo is just a case of votes being split and me thinking there's enough justification to rise it. Yes, I am biased. Cope.

Everyone voted to raise Vigoroth, but to where we weren't sure. Most people voted just to high-B rank, so that's where I put it, but we had it voted as high as mid-A rank. Is another small bump to low-A rank warranted to adjust for the "outlier" vote?

Bro fell off hard after 2019 NUPL. Most were in favor of a small drop, but Roseybear went and voted it all the way down to C rank eek. Should it fall another subrank?

---

Of course, other rankings can be discussed too, but the above ones are which I think deserve the most focus. It's here where I really want to invite everyone to speak their piece; I'll be paying attention to all posts here. Depending on how discussion goes, I'll implement these changes by the end of March.

Thank you for doing this, it is starting to look real good.
I will comment on what should be the final placements

I think the new low S rank is good, its pretty clear that Flareon, Glalie and Metang are a cut above the rest of the metagame.

Torkoal and Huntail should be A+. It feels wrong to see Bellossom & Roselia sub 1 rank higher and then seeing them the same Rank as Relicanth & Plusle.
Torkoal is one of the best Flareon, Metang, Haunter & Raticate switch ins while screwing over Bellossom. Having boom is always useful to have too.
Huntail is a fantastic rain sweeper, While most teams carry Wailord to beat Huntail but its not enough, you need to make sure you can at least check it whenever its Relicanth or Endure Salac Berry Haunter. Its much harder to prep & stop than Bellossom & Pupitar.

I think Diglett is fine to be in A- for now, Trapping is great but its difficult to use, I would like to see how it preforms in this upcoming NUPL first.

Murkrow and Golbat are fine to be in the same rank together, they both do a similar job and have their own unique strength
Murkrow is a great Chimecho & Bellossom switch in whereas Golbat is better at dealing with Hitmonchan & has quick attack

Sudowoodo is a great lead as Sudo pressures Glalie, Flareon & Torkoal with Rock Slide, while it pressures Hitmonchan with Boom.
Even though I voted B+ originally, I think Vigoroth would suit A- rank with the current proposed VR

Tropius absolutely needs to be dropped to B- at least. Its a decent tank but it can't switch in on anything but Hitmonchan & Roselia, Its very slow and not very strong either. Heck Tropius still loses to BU Hitmonchan or a well predicted CB Rock Slide

Small but I would probably put Venomoth B-, I can't comment too much on this mon as I understand it gets sleep power + baton pass but I haven't seen it do anything useful yet.

 

[Bughouse]

I don't think anything ended up more than a half rank from where I had it so I'm reasonably satisfied. I don't think there's a ton to discuss at this time, but I'll say a few words.

As I've said I think Flareon is clear S, not S-, but I know I was outvoted on this. I definitely think S- makes sense for the other two. Few people wanted to rank any of these 6 in A+.

Of the 3, I'm probably highest on Golbat atm, but, on paper at least, Murkrow is still A- too. I ranked Pidgeot B+, but honestly A- for even that would be fine too. None of them are really substitutable, but each can fit different teams and are all scary. Pidgeot is just for me the hardest to justify why it should be a Pidgeot not a Raticate at the end of the day.

Definitely still scary and must be prepped for in the teambuilder, thus meriting its place on the VR. I think people have also underexplored it on stallish teams, which is where I've had the most success with it, much like you may remember Dugtrio working in various metas.

It certainly has its niches, so even though I ranked B+ I don't think you going with the average rank as A- is a travesty. It's still behind Relicanth so idc.

B+ looks like the better way to average it out to me. A is not a tenable rank imo and I don't put much weight on that ranking here as a result.

Tropius does best against fatter teams that let it do SD shenanigans. The meta is considerably more offensive than it was years ago and thus not favorable for it right now. I went B+ but considered lower. I'm fine with it staying B+ for now but it's definitely on watch to drop farther.

 

[ArcticBreeze]

Hi, I consolidated the votes from the (qualified) VRs posted here, and this is the result.

A couple notes: Expulso's votes that he did not specify were reflected to be my own given his claim that he agreed with my VR with some caveats. Roseybear did not vote on many Pokemon, so I simply did not assign a vote to them because I didn't want to assume he meant to unrank Pokemon. Jisoo is a similar case, and I took their B-rank Pokemon to mean "high B." Naturally, if there are any issues with how this was handled by those affected, let me know.

S Rank

High

Chimecho
Haunter
Wailord

Low

Flareon(?)
Glalie(?)
Metang(?)

A Rank

High

Bellossom
Hitmonchan
Pupitar
Raticate
Roselia
Sableye

Mid

Cacturne
Dewgong
Huntail
Plusle
Relicanth
Torkoal

Low

Diglett(?)
Golbat(?)
Murkrow(?)
Octillery
Pelipper
Pikachu

B Rank

High

Crawdaunt
Kecleon
Pidgeot
Sudowoodo(?)
Tropius(?)
Venomoth
Vigoroth(?)
Whiscash

Low

Abra
Arbok
Dunsparce
Kingler
Lickitung
Mawile
Minun
Seadra
Tangela
Wigglytuff

C Rank

Delcatty
Dragonair
Graveler
Grovyle
Houndour
Lairon
Ledian
Magcargo
Piloswine
Poliwhirl
Shelgon
Swalot
Togetic
Wartortle
Yanma

---

You'll notice a few Pokemon with a ? next to their name. This is because of the votes being split weirdly enough to where I think additional discussion on them holds significant merit. I'll give a brief explanation for each of them:

I'm including all of the low-S rank because there was a bit of a split over whether they're truly S or still A+. This is mostly a case of deciding if only keeping the "big three" in S is the best course of action and just acknowledging that while these three would be the best in high A, they're still not quite there. Personally, I think having S split into two subranks works well, but there's varying opinion about where Flareon and even Glalie fit in the ranking hierarchy.

We had a bit of discussion in the NU Discord recently about the Flying-type wallbreakers, in particular Murkrow and Golbat. Both offer some really nice defensive traits, but Murkrow's recent low usage and poor success rate had most voters end up wanting to drop it; it's just not that effective in practice due to the poor bulk. Golbat, however, has a fair bit more going for it, still checking Bellossom but also providing a crucial Fighting resistance. Votes were simply split evenly here, so I want to bring up these two and get a bit more talk about them. applies here too I guess lol.

Diglett has all but vanished from competitive play. It's super hard to support because trapping with it requires getting Diglett onto the field safely and oftentimes significantly weakening the trap target. Other than Jisoo, though, no one really committed to nuking Diglett down to the depths of low-B rank. Frankly, I'm quite open to doing so, but I'd like to hear others' opinions too.

Sudowoodo is just a case of votes being split and me thinking there's enough justification to rise it. Yes, I am biased. Cope.

Everyone voted to raise Vigoroth, but to where we weren't sure. Most people voted just to high-B rank, so that's where I put it, but we had it voted as high as mid-A rank. Is another small bump to low-A rank warranted to adjust for the "outlier" vote?

Bro fell off hard after 2019 NUPL. Most were in favor of a small drop, but Roseybear went and voted it all the way down to C rank eek. Should it fall another subrank?

---

Of course, other rankings can be discussed too, but the above ones are which I think deserve the most focus. It's here where I really want to invite everyone to speak their piece; I'll be paying attention to all posts here. Depending on how discussion goes, I'll implement these changes by the end of March.

Put diglet in C lmao and unrank all the garbage. Diglet in A- is actually a fucking crime.