Wasn't Magby ranked? what happened to it? Don't see it getting UR anywhere
it's badWasn't Magby ranked? what happened to it? Don't see it getting UR anywhere
Probably fair considering the dropoff in Huntail usage, which countering it was its biggest selling point. It was always pretty passive and not as "safe" as Wailord (Fight + Rock weak is butts), which considering the whale's dominance the past couple years would justify a drop for Dewgong. Interested to see how much Huntail we see this NUPL myself tbhyo I know this is gonna be dead until NUPL probably, but Dewgong should definitely drop to A- or maybe B+; every time I consider it in building it feels like an inferior Wailord a lot of the time. it's significantly easier to take advantage of and just doesn't do the whole offensive Water-type with defensive utility as well as our whale friend does. I think that dirty Toxic + Encore bullshit will always be a threat, but the narwhal feels overrated in A right now
Rises: Wailord S --> S+ Diglett A --> A+ Pupitar A --> A+ Cacturne A- --> A Plusle B+ --> A- Pelipper B+ --> A- Drops: Hitmonchan S --> A Sableye S --> A+ Relicanth A+ --> A Huntail A --> A- Pidgeot A- --> B+ Vigoroth A- --> B- Kingler B- --> C Lairon C --> UR Graveler C --> UR Poliwhirl C --> UR
Nobody reads the reasoning for anything other than the high rank mons, so I'll explain most of those in hide tags hereS Rank:
Rises: Metang A+ --> S Pupitar A --> A+ Torkoal A --> A+ Cacturne A- --> A Plusle B+ --> A Pelipper B+ --> A Minun B- --> B+ Ledian UR --> B- Delcatty UR --> C Drops: Hitmonchan S --> A+ Roselia S --> A+ Sableye S --> A+ Relicanth A+ --> A Huntail A --> A- Raticate A --> A- Kecleon A- --> B+ Mawile A- --> B+ Pidgeot A- --> B+ Vigoroth A- --> B- Kingler B- --> C
Lombre ends up having too much of an opportunity cost is its main issue; sure, it checks the foes you noted here, but why would I ever use it over defensive Wailord or Dewgong, both of which function the same? It really only has a "place" on certain rain teams, and even there it's very mediocre because of how weak it is.
Calm mind sableye is a pretty funny way to counter rosella. (HP dark and psychic are his attacking moves, along with CM and recover).With Lombre and similar NFEs like Chinchou and Magnemite, they are effective against certain Pokemon when defensively EVed, but they then have a major downside in not being able to threaten Roselia. If Roselia is able to set up Spikes freely against them, it will be problematic for their defensive capabilities. Being able to threaten Roselia is a big determining factor in viability in the tier -- you can see by looking at the top ranks that basically the only Pokemon that can't threaten it at least somewhat are Roselia itself and Sableye. This makes me slightly sceptical about including the defensive niche NFEs. However, it is possible but risky to remove Roselia with Adamant Choice Band Diglett and slight chip damage, which could make them more viable options.
My issue with CM Sab was always that it took long to ramp up enough SpDef to handle all the strong special attackers. I remember seeing it work when the opponent gets caught making some plays not expecting it, but more often i just see it flop compared to a standard Toxic Sab. If you're looking for stuff that sets up on or switches in on Rose then there's a lot of more generally useful picks in the upper ranks. Also wouldn't trust a lot of the PS Calc spreads for stuff since they pull from the dex and there isn't really much updated info for ADV NU there.After talking with some players like Isoptera on Showdown, I actually think the best CM Sableye set is Recover, HP Dark, Calm Mind, and Rest. Held item is a chesto berry. Mono dark coverage is adequate for the tier, and being able to shrug off status is a big deal, since it is usually the default answer to cripple Sableye. I know that the calc. recommends max hp, max defense for the CM set, but I enjoy having at least some special attack investment. He needs some potency without 4+ boosts. A few EVs to speed creep base 50's is a good consideration as well. Calm mind spam is more viable than I initially thought, the team style is pretty fun. Call me crazy, but I think Omanyte might have a niche as a spiker who can spike on normal/ flying attacks. For CM spam that can be valuable. He can also setup rain and fire off some very powerful hydro pumps to add to the special attacking assault. I haven't put Omanyte into practice though, this is just an idea.
Yeah the standard Sableye set is absolutely more consistent, has a lot more defensive utility since you're not concerned with making it specially offensive, and it can actually threaten Hitmonchan.My issue with CM Sab was always that it took long to ramp up enough SpDef to handle all the strong special attackers. I remember seeing it work when the opponent gets caught making some plays not expecting it, but more often i just see it flop compared to a standard Toxic Sab. If you're looking for stuff that sets up on or switches in on Rose then there's a lot of more generally useful picks in the upper ranks. Also wouldn't trust a lot of the PS Calc spreads for stuff since they pull from the dex and there isn't really much updated info for ADV NU there.
Also have battled a couple Omanytes before and his issues are he is way too slow, has way too little HP, and lets in too many powerhouses like Wailord and Rose. He's useful in matchups against choiced Normal- and Flying-types but that's about it and those are pretty rare nowadays.
I'm walking back on the calm mind Sableye set. I think he is best trying to be as offensive as possible, Psychic is preferable, max special attack investment and nature. Calm mind spam is far too passive unless you pump the mons with special attack investment.Yeah the standard Sableye set is absolutely more consistent, has a lot more defensive utility since you're not concerned with making it specially offensive, and it can actually threaten Hitmonchan.
I do have a few good ideas with Omanyte to take advantage of his common switchins. Maybe he can run thief to cripple them for the rest of the game (especially helpful for Roselia). I also think sandstorm on the switch, then a pivot into sand veil cacturne on the hydro pump or HP grass/ electric could create some momentum. Even something like Icy Wind might be nice to slow down the switch ins, then potentially finish them off with a powerful ice beam (Roselia) or HP for the waters. Or it could simply help your slower check do its job better (SpDef Bellossum for Wailord, etc..). Can also cripple a sun sweeper Bellossum looking to capitalize on the slow Omanyte. I've kind of given up on giving him Rain Dance to help in the special offense/ sweeping effort, but maybe I just haven't built around it properly.
Spiking on the band normals is great, even though you've correctly noted they're becoming rarer and rarer. Even if the normal attacker isn't choiced, Omanyte can still spike on them. In the case of Jolly Raticate (I imagine no one runs adamant, that would waste Raticate's biggest advantage over his competition), HP ground does 41.2-48.9% if Omanyte is only invested with max HP. If Omanyte happens to run max HP, max Defense Bold, HP ground does 29.5-35%. A 16.6% chance to 3 hit KO if Omanyte takes 1 layer of spikes chip (after lefties). If you're calculating for a field without spike(s), Omanyte needs 252 HP, 176 Defense Bold to not get 3 hit KO'd 100% of the time (and at 152 it is only a 0.3% chance, so those 24 points can go elsewhere). If Omanyte switches into a double edge (which does 20.4-24%), and it hits max roll, he can still take 2 more max roll HP grounds, which means he can get 2 layers of spikes up. With this in mind, I don't think the substitute normal attacking sets totally invalidate Omanyte's niche. By the way, it is fairly hard to find tournaments and pages for this tier, how do you stay in the loop? I'd love to compete.