Anti - Dragon Dancers

umbreloom

I've been thinking about a dragon dance counter for a while now. It's often the case that something that has dragon danced twice or sometimes even once can take down your whole team. But, I'm having trouble coming up with a pokemon that could deal with this situation without relying on a lot of luck (i.e. focus band or quick claw).
I've thought about using a pokemon with Psych Up, but the trouble is finding one that will survive long enough to use psych up and also have a higher enough base speed and attack to then take down the opponent.
 
Anything with Ice Shard takes care of Dragon Dance Dragons like Salamence and Dragonite.
Mach Punch finishes of DD Tyranitar.
 
But would one Ice shard be enough to kill a Dragonite, or one Mach Punch for a Tyranitar? They're both pretty bulky. What would the base attack have to be to deal with them this way?

As for countering dragon dancers, I've also considered a Pokemon with roar, but the problem is that roar always goes last, so it's likely to die before getting the chance.
 
Starmie with Choice Scarf and a +Sp.Atk nature. I'm pretty sure you'd be able to finish off Dragonite that way? You could go for +Speed nature and Choice Specs, but Mence might outspeed you after a DD. I'm really unsure about these though, but it's the best I could come up with.
 
Can't you just get a defensive Hazer?

Something like...


Weezing @ Leftovers/Black Sludge
Bold 252 HP/252 Def / 6 SpDef
Toxic / Sludge Bomb
Haze
Taunt
Explosion

Not sure on using Taunt, but it can Haze those Dragon Dances pretty easy and will also be unaffected or NVE hit by a good few types. Unless you have a DDer that uses something like Zen Headbutt, you're alright.

I'd pick Sludge Bomb over Toxic, since you have nothing that forces them to stay in. There's also probably something better than Taunt, but I've been at work for almost 8 hours and my brain is mushy. :P
 
Use Will-o-Wisp, which Burns and therefore halves their Attack. Cresselia can take a lot of hits and Ice Beam them, or Thunder Wave.
 
Great Sage said:
Use Will-o-Wisp, which Burns and therefore halves their Attack. Cresselia can take a lot of hits and Ice Beam them, or Thunder Wave.
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I saw Will-o-Wisp in his moveset and I said to myself, "Burn would be perfect" and then I totally forgot about it when I wrote it out.

Will-o-Wisp > Taunt
 
If you're a pimp, you let them get Dragon Dance up a few times and send in this fella...

Persian (M) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Limber
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Psych Up
- Flail
- Night Slash / Shadow Claw
- Dig / U-Turn

Comedy Dig option hurts rock/steel types, though if they use EQ (like they should) you're screwed. U-Turn is probably the best bet as you can get out dishing a chunk of damage and retain a Flail-ready Persian on the bench. You can also use Bite / Faint Attack with Technician. Fails against sandstorm of course... for a Sandstream friendly but not as cool version, there is always Jirachi. Too bad he only ties with Salamence on speed.

I reaaaalllly wish Lucario learned Psych Up, as stealing Dragon Dances + sandstorm immunity + priority move = game over.
 
Dusknoir with max hp and a ton of def handles gyarados and the dragon/flying DDers (with Ice and Thunder punches). A bulky ground or something like bronzong w/ grass rope should be able to handle ttar.
 
In advance it was standard practice to use a defensive/resisting pokemon carrying a move that will dish out a lot of damage to the DD'er. I'd say in general the same practice still applies here.

Porygon2 has Trace and Thunderbolt/Ice Beam... Tracing Intimidate negates the first attack boost of Dragon Dance so I'd say a defensive Porygon2 is a viable option... to give an example.

And Fish's post wins in terms of gamechangers. Awesome idea.
 
The problem with trick room is taking the hit to get trick room off and then do something about it.

Bronzong might be able to do it though, with Levitate and the Steel-type, but he still gets Crunched pretty hard by T-tar.
 
On dragon dancers, Just use a good ice attack. Usually you have enough time before they start attacking. About 2-3 ice attacks with a good pokemon will take out most dragon dancers.
 
I've just remembered something that I've wanted to try out. Snatch. It requires good prediction, but it's my understanding that Snatch is rarely used in standard movesets, so could come as a surprise. Using snatch as the opponent uses dragon dance and stealing the boost. Also works for substitute which is fairly popular, so wouldn't be too situational; not beyond being useful anyway. Is there a particular pokemon that this strategy would stand out for?
 
how bout Porygon-Z with Focus Sash, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam... TTar sends problems but DDTar is seeing less and less use nowadays
 
You guys are forgetting, or maybe not, that ttar and gyarados usually carry taunt, making haze, WoW, and roar/WW useless. Against mence and dragonite, those moves would work fine...

But I'm interested in what makes a good DD counter. I hear donphan and swampert makes a good DD tar counter, but why? What qualifies them as being good? The rock resist?
 
Dagger said:
You guys are forgetting, or maybe not, that ttar and gyarados usually carry taunt, making haze, WoW, and roar/WW useless. Against mence and dragonite, those moves would work fine...

But I'm interested in what makes a good DD counter. I hear donphan and swampert makes a good DD tar counter, but why? What qualifies them as being good? The rock resist?
Click to expand...
The ability to take ttar's attacks and fire back STABed EQs. Hippowdon might be better than either, though, since it gets slack off.
 
Trick Room works in conjunction with Focus Sash. I laughably was owned in Battle Tower by a Porygon2 on my Swords Danced up Garchomp, which is a similar practice. He hung on with the sash, trick roomed me, and proceeded to pummel my whole team because they were sweepers that relied on speed.
 
When I think of countering Dragon Dance, I think of two moves: Gyro Ball and Punishment.

If you have a sufficiently slow Forretress, Bronzong, or Steelix, Gyro Ball's power should always be at 150 against opponents who have used Dragon Dance. The only problem is that it's ineffective against Water-types like Gyarados and Feraligatr. That's why I prefer Forretress with Gyro Ball and Zap Cannon.

Any Pokémon with Focus Sash and Punishment makes a decent revenge killer for Dragon Dance Pokémon. If you use an Absol or Weavile, you get STAB on Punishment as well as the option of Psych Up. After one Dragon Dance, Punishment's power is only 93. But, after two Dances, it's 135. The more Dragon Dances you can lull your opponent into using, the more powerful Punishment will be.

Also, I love Fish's Persian set. Genius.
 
i like to use bibarel with max defence to counter dd's. unaware cancels out the attack boost and has a good enough (although still low) attacks/movepool to scare/kill the opposing dd'er
 
Mach punch is really not a T-tar counter. You need something stupid like 450-500 attack and STAB'd to OHKO it, and that is without HP EV's.

Salamence can only take an Ice Pebble from anything less than about 350 attack (STAB'd again), so even Jolly Weavile (without a CB) can't really do the trick successfully.

Therefore, like other people have been suggesting, I think it is wiser to use a tank to counter them, as opposed to a priority move.
 
A lot of people have mentioned a Focus Sash set, where they rely on Focus sash to keep them alive long enough to counter the DDer. It's worth noting that with Stealth Rock active, this tactic won't work. What's the percentage chance of Focus Band keeping you alive anyway? Or the percentage chance of Quick Claw activating?
Keep the tactics coming though. Each one is appreciated.
 
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