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Pigeons

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AG Circuit Champion

Genesect C+ -> B-

I'm honestly surprised this is ranked so low. Genesect fulfills a variety of rolls, it is one of the only Pokemon that can check Darkrai if it has a Substitute up, and more viable than most of the alternatives (looking at you Ninjask and Sylveon). It is also an excellent pivot, with U-turn it can effectively take advantage of checks such as Groudon or Ho-Oh when paired with a strong wallbreaker like Primal Kyogre. Genesect's last moveslot is generally quite open so it can be customized to fit a team's needs, Ice Beam lets it threaten Rayquaza and do respectable damage to Groudon while other options include Extreme Speed, Flamethrower or Explosion.

Anyways, here's another team you might want to consider for the sample teams archive, I'm surprised nobody's submitted something like it yet.



Not a Llama (Rayquaza-Mega) @ Choice Band
Ability: Delta Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- V-create
- Waterfall
- Extreme Speed

Llama (Arceus) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Magic Coat
- Swords Dance

Llama (Arceus) @ Life Orb
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Swords Dance

Pink Llama (Arceus-Fairy) @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 44 Def / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Defog

Australian Llama (Arceus-Poison) @ Toxic Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 120 SpA / 40 SpD / 100 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Earth Power
- Psych Up
- Recover

Llama (Arceus) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Recover
- Stealth Rock
- Roar

Most people have seen a team like this before (in fact I've come across teams almost exactly like this on the ladder), Godspam is a really strong archetype. This is mostly a team I use for blasting through low ladder but it works very well against skilled opponents too, it's very powerful and quite well balanced overall. Using this team isn't too complicated, use Rayquaza to bust holes in the opposing team so an EKiller can sweep, falling back on the three remaining Arceus if the team needs to go on the defensive. The EKiller sets can easily be customized to personal preference, Magic Coat+Lum Berry EKiller is a better Darkrai/Klefki check and also can bounce back status/phazing moves from Lugia or Giratina. Life Orb EKiller with Fire Blast is my preference to lure Skarmory while still being a very threatening sweeper. Fairy Arceus beats Yveltal and Rayquaza, keeps hazards off the field and can spread burns to weaken opponents. Bulky Arceus with Rocky Helmet lets the team have an advantage over opposing EKiller spam teams and provides the ever needed Stealth Rocks. Lastly, Psych Up Poisonceus is a dank meme that checks Xerneas really well and can threaten a countersweep while also being useful against Clefable and opposing Fairy Arceus. There's not too much that can give this team a lot of trouble, Ghostceus can be tricky and Stall Mewtwo gave me heck once but otherwise this team has decent matchups against the whole metagame. Just keep your defensive answers to things alive, otherwise the team is quite vulnerable to setup sweepers.
 

Genesect C+ -> B-

I'm honestly surprised this is ranked so low. Genesect fulfills a variety of rolls, it is one of the only Pokemon that can check Darkrai if it has a Substitute up, and more viable than most of the alternatives (looking at you Ninjask and Sylveon). It is also an excellent pivot, with U-turn it can effectively take advantage of checks such as Groudon or Ho-Oh when paired with a strong wallbreaker like Primal Kyogre. Genesect's last moveslot is generally quite open so it can be customized to fit a team's needs, Ice Beam lets it threaten Rayquaza and do respectable damage to Groudon while other options include Extreme Speed, Flamethrower or Explosion.
We just dropped Genesect because of some very gaping holes in that strategy. While it checks rai, it isn't overly difficult to switch into and is very susceptible to chip damage. Its best chance at countering rai relies entirely on plays and struggles to do much else. None of its moves, with the exception of Iron Head, are moves you'd like to be locked into. It often ends up giving away free turns to the opponent and is much of a momentum killer.
While it does a decent job at checking rai and revenge killing in rare occasions, it fails to follow up after that and is often quite easy to bully out of games.
 

Shuckle Unlisted -> C

Shuckle is one of the best sticky web setters in the tier. The most common argument against Shuckle is that it's set-up bait, which makes it useless. Everyone is overlooking one move: encore. Seriously, encore Shuckle is amazing. Facing a NP Darkrai? Get put to sleep, Darkrai gets a sub, Darkrai uses NP and Shuckle encores it into that. Bring in anything fast to take it down. Xerneas? Useless. DDance Quayza, SD Arceus, SR Pdon. The list goes on. The other three slots are in my opinion, best filled with SR, sticky web and toxic. Without toxic, Shuckle is forced to switch after encoring. Infestation, protect and resto chesto also hold some viability if you already have a SR setter. Sturdy allows it to stop a sweep and A, encore it into a move you have an immunity for, or B, use toxic. Overall, Shuckle is a fantastic utility that is very underrated.
 
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Shuckle Unlisted -> B-

Shuckle is one of the best sticky web setters in the tier. The most common argument against Shuckle is that it's set-up bait, which makes it useless. Everyone is overlooking one move: encore. Seriously, encore Shuckle is amazing. Facing a NP Darkrai? Get put to sleep, Darkrai gets a sub, Darkrai uses NP and Shuckle encores it into that. Bring in anything fast to take it down. Xerneas? Useless. DDance Quayza, SD Arceus, SR Pdon. The list goes on. The other four slots are in my opinion, best filled with SR, sticky web and toxic. Without toxic, Shuckle is forced to switch after encoring. Infestation, protect and resto chesto also hold some viability if you already have a SR setter. Sturdy allows it to stop a sweep and A, encore it into a move you have an immunity for, or B, use toxic. Overall, Shuckle is a fantastic utility that is very underrated.
The problem with shuckle isn't just that, though. Not only is webs a mediocre-at-best playstyle, shuckle or is useless vs taunt anything, defog arceus, magic bounce, Pogre, pdon, Mray... during most games it won't accomplish it's goal, and when it does it's contribution is still basically meaningless. Even if it was worth ranking, however, B- is way too high- that's where useful pokemon like regular groudon or arceus poison reside.
 
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The problem with shuckle isn't just that, though. Not only is webs a mediocre-at-best playstyle, shuckle or is useless vs taunt anything, defog arceus, magic bounce, Pogre, pdon, Mray... during most games it won't accomplish it's goal, and when it does it's contribution is still basically meaningless. Even if it was worth ranking, however, B- is way to high- that's where useful pokemon like regular groudon or arceus poison reside.
Quantum, I disagree. Most of the points you mention are actually not that common in AG. Taunt is almost never used except from Y god, which is still then uncommon. There are possibly more Taunt users, but the majority of them are uncommon and then Taunt on them is even more uncommon.
If there's a Defog Arceus, you Toxic it, and you've accomplished a lot because Defog Arceus rarely to never carries Refresh.
Magic Bounce, that's exclusive to Diancie M, and the Espeon on those baton passing teams.
Sticky Web would be a blessing on many teams, and although there is a lot of pokemon that do not take it, such as Lugia, Y God, Mray, etc,
but the main pokemon with 80% usage on 1760+ is Arceus. Jolly Arceus can now get outsped by MRay's Espeed, while your Adamant Arceus can destroy the other Jolly Arceus w/ SD and pick up important KO's.
Stealth Rocks isn't bad either, because this empties a spot for your Primal G or support Arceus, and gives it so much more potential, while if you wanna stick with two Rockers, then it's almost confirmed you'll have Rocks up, which is incredibly useful.

Of course B- is much too high for Shuckle, so I would go w/ C rank.
 
Quantum, I disagree. Most of the points you mention are actually not that common in AG. Taunt is almost never used except from Y god, which is still then uncommon. There are possibly more Taunt users, but the majority of them are uncommon and then Taunt on them is even more uncommon.
If there's a Defog Arceus, you Toxic it, and you've accomplished a lot because Defog Arceus rarely to never carries Refresh.
Magic Bounce, that's exclusive to Diancie M, and the Espeon on those baton passing teams.
Sticky Web would be a blessing on many teams, and although there is a lot of pokemon that do not take it, such as Lugia, Y God, Mray, etc,
but the main pokemon with 80% usage on 1760+ is Arceus. Jolly Arceus can now get outsped by MRay's Espeed, while your Adamant Arceus can destroy the other Jolly Arceus w/ SD and pick up important KO's.
Stealth Rocks isn't bad either, because this empties a spot for your Primal G or support Arceus, and gives it so much more potential, while if you wanna stick with two Rockers, then it's almost confirmed you'll have Rocks up, which is incredibly useful.

Of course B- is much too high for Shuckle, so I would go w/ C rank.
What? Taunt is run on mewtwo, darkrai, yveltal, deoxys, some MGar, and the (rare) thundurus. Magic bounce is also on stall's staple mega sableye, and diancie is far from rare. Webs is a terrible play style because most of the tier is unnafected (MRay, ho-oh, yvelgod), doesn't usually care (ekiller, stall, support don/ceus) or can remove them (supportceus).
Rocks isn't really a good reason either, except as some kind of bonus. If I need, for whatever reason, dual rocks, all I need to do is slap another PDon/supportceus/deoxys/insert setter here and actually accomplish something other than rocks. I mean, even if you do toxic the supportceus, it still wins 1v1 and removes your hazards, meaning you traded a team slot for chip on the foes defogger- and that's assuming it isn't magic coat or steelceus.

Tl;dr: webs are a bad play style, shuckle is a bad mon, and 99% of the time you'd be better off with something else.
 
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What? Taunt is run on mewtwo, darkrai, yveltal, deoxys, some MGar, and the (rare) thundurus. Magic bounce is also on stall's staple mega sableye, and diancie is far from rare. Webs is a terrible play style because most of the tier is unnafected (MRay, ho-oh, yvelgod), doesn't usually care (ekiller, stall, support don/ceus) or can remove them (supportceus).
Rocks isn't really a good reason either, except as some kind of bonus. If I need, for whatever reason, dual rocks, all I need to do is slap another PDon/supportceus/deoxys/insert setter here and actually accomplish something other than rocks. I mean, even if you do toxic the supportceus, it still wins 1v1 and removes your hazards, meaning you traded a team slot for chip on the foes defogger- and that's assuming it isn't magic coat or steelceus.

Tl;dr: webs are a bad play style, shuckle is a bad mon, and 99% of the time you'd be better off with something else.
Keep in mind while that on paper it seems bad, in practice things can work a little different. It's been working really well for me. I've managed to get to 1764 elo and 91.7% GXE using Shuckle.
 
Quantum, I disagree. Most of the points you mention are actually not that common in AG. Taunt is almost never used except from Y god, which is still then uncommon. There are possibly more Taunt users, but the majority of them are uncommon and then Taunt on them is even more uncommon.
You're severely underestimating the amount of hazard control in AG. Just looking at top 30 of 1760 ELO usage stats:

-%20 of Darkrai (#5), %49 of Yveltal (#8), %38 of Gengar-Mega (#16), %17 of MMY (#20) and %56 of Mewtwo (#21) run Taunt
-Defog + Magic Coat combined are used on %20 of Arceus-Normal (#1), %23 of Arceus-Ghost (#7), %52 of Arceus-Fairy (#11), %15 of Arceus-Steel (#14), %51 of Arceus-Water (#25) and %17 of Arceus-Ground (#26)
-Deo-A (#12) uses Taunt or Magic Coat %20 of the time, Deo-S (#24) %98 of the time
-Defog is used by %83 of Giratina (#17) and %61 of Skarmory (#19)
-Mega Diancie is #29 and Espeon #33, Sableye-Mega #41

That's 16 of top 30 there, not what I'd call uncommon. Hell, I'd argue that except a few guys who cheese their way up the ladder with 6 Klefkis, pretty much all teams higher up the ladder have some form of hazard control. If AG didn't have this much hazard control and was instead based on fast, frail sweepers and a lot of speed creeping, I could see devoting a slot purely to Webs as viable. As it stands, that's not the case, and most AG Pokemon either aren't affected by it (MegaRay, Yveltal, Lugia, Ho-Oh, Skarm..) or can function alright even with Webs anyway (Extremekiller, pretty much all Arceus formes, Klefki, GeoXern, Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre, Giratina, Ferrothorn, Baton Pass mons...).

That's not to say you can't build a good team with Shuckle or that it won't come in handy in some matches. You can (Webs let you out-Extremespeed enemy Arceus, screw over ScarfXern, Darkrai, Mewtwo/MMY and MegaGar) but to say Shuckle is on par with stuff in B-/C or hazard control is uncommon in AG is way off base. I'd even argue against D, we can't rank every usable 'mon with a small niche, otherwise the ranks would be too bloated.

Though a "dark horse" weekly competition/thread would be cool to see who can ladder highest with shitmons discuss these kind of mons imo.
 

Chloe

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I'd like to see heaps more discussion on ranking the following mons:

Should they all go to D rank? Which ones deserve to be ranked and which ones don't? Why?

I'd like to show my disagreement with Zapdos and Shuckle nominations. Having used both excessively in my early AG days, i can definitely state the prevalence of taunters and bouncers in the metagame make Shuckle an extremely passive and usually useless mon. Essentially what was stated by gvmgvm40. Zapdos may wall some Mega Rayquaza variants but is OHKOed by +1 DD V-Create, +2 SD V-Create, Banded V-Create, LO Draco Meteor and Specs Draco Meteor. It can't wall a mon, it can only wall a set.
 
I'd like to see heaps more discussion on ranking the following mons:

Should they all go to D rank? Which ones deserve to be ranked and which ones don't? Why?
Agree with Mlop and Mttar. I'll say no to both Aeros.

Why not

Aero - Access to taunt-rocks is nice, but fails to do anything aside from it. Does nothing Deo S wouldn't otherwise do. Loses to Msab, which is a major issue for a lead. I don't see it doing too many special things. Loses to rock slide dong and most common supportceus variations. (Same reasons apply to MAero, but it hits harder and is faster than Mewtwo/Gar and has tied speed vs deo a. Although, this is a wasted mega slot for me.)

Why to

Mlop - One of the most reliable revenge killers in the game, with fake out killing ghost types once they're weakened. Powerful STAB moves, as well as encore to lock a mon into any non damaging move. Needs a specific build, but works beautifully around it. Facade/PUP/Circle Throw being other options. Works exceedingly well with hazard stack.

Mttar - Mostly all the arguments posted by Thimo. Crunch + SE is brilliant for a physical attacker, considering how most physical walls won't be switching into this. Outspeeds Mgar/Mewtwos after a dance. Handy sp def. I don't see a reason to not push this beyond D, tbh.
 
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I'd like to see heaps more discussion on ranking the following mons:

Should they all go to D rank? Which ones deserve to be ranked and which ones don't? Why?

I'd like to show my disagreement with Zapdos and Shuckle nominations. Having used both excessively in my early AG days, i can definitely state the prevalence of taunters and bouncers in the metagame make Shuckle an extremely passive and usually useless mon. Essentially what was stated by gvmgvm40. Zapdos may wall some Mega Rayquaza variants but is OHKOed by +1 DD V-Create, +2 SD V-Create, Banded V-Create, LO Draco Meteor and Specs Draco Meteor. It can't wall a mon, it can only wall a set.
Please note: The following will be based on MY opinion.
Aerodactyl, a nice Rocky Helmet wall suicide lead. Definitely deserves D.
Aerodactyl-Mega, haven't seen and used much of it, but I somewhat like it as defensive wall. I don't think it's any better that it's pre-mega form, because of the Pressure ability and the ability to hold an item. I'd say don't rank this, because I think, it's a waste of a mega slot.
Tyranitar-Mega, in my opinion, deserves more than D. Either C- or C at least. It's so good, because it kills the majority of the meta in a single hit after a Dragon Dance.
Lopunny-Mega, haven't used this (as of now). Though, I have seen it work against me and others. Easy to revenge kill, but hard to switch into. D would be fine.
 
I'd like to see heaps more discussion on ranking the following mons:

Should they all go to D rank? Which ones deserve to be ranked and which ones don't? Why?

I'd like to show my disagreement with Zapdos and Shuckle nominations. Having used both excessively in my early AG days, i can definitely state the prevalence of taunters and bouncers in the metagame make Shuckle an extremely passive and usually useless mon. Essentially what was stated by gvmgvm40. Zapdos may wall some Mega Rayquaza variants but is OHKOed by +1 DD V-Create, +2 SD V-Create, Banded V-Create, LO Draco Meteor and Specs Draco Meteor. It can't wall a mon, it can only wall a set.
As far as megalop goes, I can definitally get behind that. As everyone knows, ekiller is extremely prevalent, and fake out is really nice in terms of priority. Encore and healing wish are pretty sweet as well, letting it restore a min for a sweep or halt setup on slower mons (most of them) as well as beating darkrai that sub on the switch.

Maero is a definite no- it takes up a mega slot, loses out on an item in exchange for speed and a mediocre ability.
By that token, however, reg aero is a decent rocks setter and taunted that doesn't auto lose to MRay.

I haven't used megatar and so really shouldn't comment, but I don't see why the increase is worth using your mega slot.
 

Josh

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We already went over aero extensively when we unranked it in the first place. I'm still somewhat against it being reranked until someone shows me a good team that it is the optimal choice for as well as some replays but I can see how it might be ok.

Mega Aero, fuck no lol its not worth the mega slot.

Mega Ttar is fine going to D I've used it a bit it did well. Not higher though.

I've used a few mega lope teams. It's ok, the pup set is the only one that really did well. However, its pretty bad, kinda neutral. If you catch a switch with a pup it can do work which is nice. Healing wish is overrated and not really worth it a lot of the time imo.
 

Megazard

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I'm sorry but if you guys keep denying things because of the mega slot then we shouldnt be ranking lopp either. or ttar. or any other lower ranked mega like metagross. Once you move past that it's a really nice fast attacker, and if it doesnt get ranked I'll likely bring it up a third time once finals are done and I can build a team and test it, at which point it will probably be more convincing (or prove it isn't worth). Find a better argument because that one is a dual standard and you know it (literally the last 2 posts like lol). And for that matter, Aero has a more defined niche with lopp having issues with kanga hitting way harder while aero revenges and threatens a ton of shit. If they don't go the way I want that's fine, but this reasoning is dumb.
As for regular aero, it's another suicide lead that's just not worth it. Use any other lead that fits a team specifically, I fail to see the defined niche and there's been absolutely no evidence offered forth other than "I said it works so please believe me". Would also love to see ttar replays since I havent had the opportunity to face one, but since nobody's offered any games or anything at all I'm going to have to be against pending the possibility of an informed decision.
 
I'm sorry but if you guys keep denying things because of the mega slot then we shouldnt be ranking lopp either. or ttar. or any other lower ranked mega like metagross. Once you move past that it's a really nice fast attacker, and if it doesnt get ranked I'll likely bring it up a third time once finals are done and I can build a team and test it, at which point it will probably be more convincing (or prove it isn't worth). Find a better argument because that one is a dual standard and you know it (literally the last 2 posts like lol).
Yes, but it IS an issue. For the same reasons that you denied Mgar S rank. The mega slot is wasted unless it is doing something that a non mega mon can not do, and Deo A/S do its job far better, and hit harder/outspeed it. Metagross is a reliable Xern check while not being overly bad in general. Mega Ttar has a brilliant offensive typing and breaks a majority of the physically defensive walls, and has brilliant bulk for a setup sweeper. Mega Lop (as discussed earlier and furthermore in this post) has a great speed tier and moveset, with an ability that allows it to challenge many Ghost types which are used as common switchins for e speed revenge killing. Being able to outspeed every defogger/recovery-support mon and being able to encore is something that's almost exclusive to it. It's not just the mega slot, it's the fact that Aero's taunt-rocks can be one upped by Deo-S, and without losing to Magic bounce.

And for that matter, Aero has a more defined niche with lopp having issues with kanga hitting way harder
Mlop outspeeds 99% of the meta, whereas Mega Kang is far slower and usually entirely walled by ghost types unless it carries Crunch. Mlop also gets encore/Healing wish in case it is walled out or recovery/defogging needs to be stopped. Fake out + frustration/Low kick allows it to OHKO tons of things that Mega Kanga can't do much about, i.e Darkrai, Mgar, M2 or even E killers/Mray, after rocks. Keep in mind that Kanga is already ranked C, whereas Mlop is being nommed for D. If I want fake out revenge killing, I'd rather go for Mlop, because of its ability to outspeed a majority of the meta.
On that note, I don't believe Kanga and Mlop are supposed to be played in similar ways or are built around similar strats. Just having the same ability/moveset doesn't really make them similar mons entirely.

while aero revenges and threatens a ton of shit.
Massive over statement. It can be handy in very specific situations, considering that it somehow survives till late game (it is 2hko'd by no investment judgment and can be OHKO'd by rock slide p dong, burned and entirely walled by Msab, can be Mcoated early or just taken out by sash leads like Deo A, cloyster, Scolipede etc).
 
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Megazard

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Yes, but it IS an issue. For the same reasons that you denied Mgar S rank. The mega slot is wasted unless it is doing something that a non mega mon can not do, and Deo A/S do its job far better, and hit harder/outspeed it. Metagross is a reliable Xern check while not being overly bad in general. Mega Ttar has a brilliant offensive typing and breaks a majority of the physically defensive walls, and has brilliant bulk for a setup sweeper. Mega Lop (as discussed earlier and furthermore in this post) has a great speed tier and moveslot, with an ability that allows it to challenge many Ghost types which are used as common switchins for e speed revenge killing. Being able to outspeed every defogger/recovery-support mon and being able to encore is something that's almost exclusive to it. It's not just the mega slot, it's the fact that Aero's taunt-rocks can be one upped by Deo-S, and without losing to Magic bounce.


Mlop outspeeds 99% of the meta, whereas Mega Kang is far slower and usually entirely walled by ghost types unless it carries Crunch. Mlop also gets encore/Healing wish in case it is walled out or recovery/defogging needs to be stopped. Fake out + frustration/Low kick allows it to OHKO tons of things that Mega Kanga can't do much about, i.e Darkrai, Mgar, M2 or even E killers/Mray, after rocks. Keep in mind that Kanga is already ranked C, whereas Mlop is being nommed for D. If I want fake out revenge killing, I'd rather go for Mlop, because of its ability to outspeed a majority of the meta.
On that note, I don't believe Kanga and Mlop are supposed to be played in similar ways or are built around similar strats. Just having the same ability/moveset doesn't really make them similar mons entirely.


Massive over statement. It can be handy in very specific situations, considering that it somehow survives till late game (it is 2hko'd by no investment judgment and can be OHKO'd by rock slide p dong, burned and entirely walled by Msab, can be Mcoated early or just taken out by sash leads like Deo A, cloyster, Scolipede etc).
I'm not here to debate the merits as of yet. Yes, you're overstating megaflop's power and underrating/misunderstanding what aero does (why would I leave it in on sableye? how the fuck is it getting KOed by scolipede?) in my opinion but that doesn't really matter at all. The point is, the only reason given for not ranking is that it takes up a mega slot by 2 posts in a row, and if that's enough to deny a mon then we shouldn't be ranking any of the other low megas either which both posts somehow advocate for. You need more substance to an argument. But also please keep in mind that the notion that the only thing a mon that runs taunt and rocks can do is suicide lead is ridiculously antiquated.
 
Requesting a few Speedtiers:
445 / Xerneas / 99 / Neutral / 252 / +1
265 / Mega Tyranitar / 71 / +Spe / 252 / 0
397 / Mega Tyranitar / 71 / +Spe / 252 / +1
156 / Clefable / 60 / Neutral / 0 / 0
 

Chloe

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Moderator
After much consideration of the above arguments and other influencing factors, we have chosen to go ahead with the following additions.
Unranked to D
Unranked to D

Mega Tyranitar received overwhelming support due to its incredible capabilities as a Dragon Dance sweeper, its access to incredible coverage and limited weaknesses. Mega Aerodactyl functions as an effective suicide lead with a good Attack stat backing it up, among other numerous traits. While it does take up a mega slot, it makes up for it with the addition of the added bulk, increased speed tier among other things. I would've taken the opposing arguments seriously if they weren't all "It takes up a mega slot" without any additional argument. Overall, the two definitely have a place within the Anything Goes metagame. I can personally see Mega Tyranitar at a higher rank in the future, if the meta follows similar trends. As for the others mentioned; Aerodactyl, while a nice option doesn't really require a sash due to the defensive typing and is lacking in overall offensive presence. Mega Lopunny, while a satisfactory set-up sweeper and Fake-Out pivot, doesn't have the required bulk or defensive typing in a meta dominated by bird-spam. Of course, these rejected nominations can also be changed if only people posted replays or used sufficient evidence when attempting to support an argument. :?

Just pointing this out:


Edit:
This also
Requesting a few Speedtiers:
445 / Xerneas / 99 / Neutral / 252 / +1
265 / Mega Tyranitar / 71 / +Spe / 252 / 0
397 / Mega Tyranitar / 71 / +Spe / 252 / +1
156 / Clefable / 60 / Neutral / 0 / 0
Done and done.

As always, feel free to address any issues you have with the placement of Pokémon or any other issues. n_n
 

Pigeons

pidge pidge
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AG Circuit Champion
Nice to see this thread is no longer dead.

C+ to C/C-

Why is this thing ranked so high? Lucario struggles in most matchups, Primal Groudon, EKiller Arceus and Mega Rayquaza are all common on AG teams and though they can't switch in, can either tank an attack fairly easily or outspeed it and threaten to KO. Even in matchups where one would expect Mega Lucario to succeed, it still has issues. Against Fairy-types, Lucario is faced with quite the dilemma: it either has to rely on the unreliable Iron Tail or the weak Bullet Punch to hit them supereffectively, not to mention it fails to beat Scarfed Xerneas and has issues with faster Fairy Arceus variants. Against more bulky teams, Lucario is still easy to beat, Giratina, Ghostcrus, Waterceus and Skarmory all take its attacks fairly well. Really Lucario has very few things it can do well against a solid AG team, not to mention you have to sacrifice your Mega slot to use it.
Unranked to D

Kind of a memeish nomination, but I think it's been shown that Shedinja teams can be reasonably successful, Thimo and thelinearcurve have both used such teams before to decent success and I've built one as well. Shedinja first and foremost hard stops Pokemon that Stall teams otherwise struggle with. Ingrain/Aromatherapy Xerneas, Calm Mind Kyogre and Calm Mind Steelceus are difficult to face even with a well built stall team (at least in my experience). By running a Focus Sash, Shedinja can also cripple a non-Lum Berry Pokemon with Will-O-Wisp, notable targets being SD Arceus forms (besides Normal) or Choice Band Rayquaza at the cost of said Sash. Baton Pass allows Shedinja not to be a complete drain to momentum whenever the opponent switches to a Pokemon that beats it and allows it to capitalize off of its many immunities. Shedinja does require a large amunt of support, notably Magic Bounce and Defog as well as teammates to check all the (many) Pokemon that threaten it, but I believe its niche is still worth a spot on the rankings.

Replays with Shedinja:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-393606979 Shedinja puts in quite a bit of work against a dual Xerneas team
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-393569586 Shedinja is able to consistently force out Kyogre while retaining momentum with Baton Pass
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-393595553 Shedinja is able to sacrifice its Sash to check Deoxys and is still able to hard counter Xerneas at the end
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-393296398 Shedinja again turns Kyogre into a liability with Baton Pass switching
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-393301670 Shedinja walls a good amount of stuff and is able to Burn a Banded Rayquaza
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-393663971 Shedinja gets a much needed burn on Groundceus and would've checked Mewtwo had I not been dumb
 

Chloe

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I blame Megazard for it being this low but it's really not this unviable. I am nominating:

C to B Rank
Mega Salamence. The main reason for its low placement on the viability is "it's outclassed by Mega Rayquaza". I'm not arguing that Mega Rayquaza isn't better in most cases, no. However, the current consensus of there's no reason to use it is completely and utterly false. The niche it presents in the Ubers tier is still present here, and even more due to the excessive status aliments presenting themselves throughout the tier. As an offensive all-out attacking Dragon Dance set, there is absolutely no reason to use it over Mega Rayquaza; however, as a defensive Dragon Dance user with recover and a way to remove its status, it is incredibly useful. The fact that it can tank an Adamant Banded Dragon Ascent from Mega Rayquaza or four Extreme Speeds from Extreme Killer Arceus just showcase Mega Salamence's defensive utility. Access to Refresh is where Mega Salamence excels, as it can effectively shrug off stall teams without much effort, rip through balance after Scarf Xerneas and appropriate Arceus formes have been dealt with, or just be an extremely painful threat to offense. Defensively, it is a tyrant; however, with such an offensive presence to back it up on top of this already stellar defensive utility, it really is just dandy~

252 Atk Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 172+ Def Mega Salamence: 79-94 (20.1 - 23.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 Atk Arceus Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 172+ Def Mega Salamence: 132-156 (33.5 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (you can Roost to halve this the following turn)
0 Atk Primal Groudon Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 172+ Def Mega Salamence: 154-182 (39.1 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (you can Roost to halve this the following turn)
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 172+ Def Mega Salamence: 194-230 (49.3 - 58.5%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO (you can Roost to halve this the following turn)
196+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 172+ Def Mega Salamence: 196-232 (49.8 - 59%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 248 HP / 172+ Def Mega Salamence: 262-309 (66.6 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Outrage vs. 248 HP / 172+ Def Mega Salamence: 320-378 (81.4 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

In case you forget to remove the Fairy Arceus in the back first:
8 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 332-392 (84.4 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

vs some random called hunter http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-395898459
vs one of my fangirls http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-365248869
vs esteemed wobbuffet user http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-395892588

Here's the set I use if it helps people test and whatever:
Code:
Tsubasa. (Salamence) @ Salamencite  
Ability: Intimidate  
Happiness: 0  
EVs: 248 HP / 172 Def / 88 Spe  
Impish Nature  
- Frustration  
- Dragon Dance  
- Refresh  
- Roost
 
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