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- Thread starter Chloe
- Start date
I think one comes to know when a pokemon is just not worth using? Never mind though, I'll edit them to give more 'specific' reasons. I think I pretty much clarified why Clefable should be in B.... Unaware => Stat boosts of the opposing pokemon aren't taken into account when using damaging moves. The leftovers set is able to check many set-up sweepers such as Xerneas, Ghost-ceus (SD), M-Rayquaza and even E-Killer Arceus. (Clef is obv not a lead.)
Also, if I give those big descriptive 'reasons' stating why they should be lowered will make this task un-necessarily long?
As some of you may know, I've been playing with some AG stall for a while now, and while I wouldn't recommend the team archetype to people wanting to do well on the ladder I've found out quite a bit about a number of the pokemon.
Firstly, Quagsire has a big niche in being a hard counter to all physical arceus that I've seen, even when burned:
252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 130-153 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and burn damage
While it obviously doesn't have huge offensive presence, its ability to spam scald or toxic against switch-ins can also be useful, and as a last resort it can also haze a Xerneas (it lives 252+ Moonblast 100% of the time and over 80% of the time after rocks). Quagsire also beats most non-offensive P-don, and hard-counters Klefki, which is extremely useful for teams that dislike facing it. Haze allows it to get rid of all the boosts Baton Pass teams can gain, whereas Whirlwind can miss or lose against Ingrain, allowing the offensive members of the team another shot at breaking the chain.
Overall, I'd say it perfectly fits the following description:
Similarly, Amoonguss has a clear niche in countering Kyogre and checking Xerneas, in other words basically checking every special attacker that isn't an arceus forme you're likely to see, while it also does reasonably well against a number of those formes. Being able to beat such common pokemon as Kyogre and Xerneas (that aren't running psyshock, which only 8.54% did last month) surely means that it meets the criteria specified above, and I would therefore suggest that Amoonguss be placed in C rank.
Ditto is an unusual pokemon in that it could never fit the above description: It doesn't really have a niche because it's, well, ditto. That said, I've found it to be very useful in this metagame, as it forces your opponent to be extremely careful when using setup sweepers - of which there are a lot in this metagame, from Mega Ray to Ekiller Arceus to CM Arceus formes to GeoXern to Baton Pass teams... Honestly, there's rarely a game in which Ditto isn't useful. Therefore, I would recommend it be placed in B or B- rank.
Skarmory is a pokemon that I used for a short while before I stopped bothering, simply because the things it's supposed to beat can all get around it. Mega Ray, which loses when running some sets, can simply run V-Create or Overheat to destroy it. Arceus can similarly run Overheat, although it doesn't as often, meaning the two main pokemon Skarmory is meant to counter actually beat it quite often.
Skarmory also gets reliable recovery and access to Stealth Rock, however these are its only real pros when compared to Klefki which is in a number of ways more likely to beat its opponents, for example being able to make Darkrai switch out or become crippled. Moreover, I find Skarmory to rarely be more useful than Yveltal or Lugia in any one situation. It should, however, be remembered that it is a far more usable mon than a number of others, and I therefore recommend a rank of B- or C+.
Firstly, Quagsire has a big niche in being a hard counter to all physical arceus that I've seen, even when burned:
252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 130-153 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and burn damage
While it obviously doesn't have huge offensive presence, its ability to spam scald or toxic against switch-ins can also be useful, and as a last resort it can also haze a Xerneas (it lives 252+ Moonblast 100% of the time and over 80% of the time after rocks). Quagsire also beats most non-offensive P-don, and hard-counters Klefki, which is extremely useful for teams that dislike facing it. Haze allows it to get rid of all the boosts Baton Pass teams can gain, whereas Whirlwind can miss or lose against Ingrain, allowing the offensive members of the team another shot at breaking the chain.
Overall, I'd say it perfectly fits the following description:
Therefore, due to its ability to hard-counter three S-rank pokemon and be extremely useful against the other two, I think this pokemon should be C- rank.
Similarly, Amoonguss has a clear niche in countering Kyogre and checking Xerneas, in other words basically checking every special attacker that isn't an arceus forme you're likely to see, while it also does reasonably well against a number of those formes. Being able to beat such common pokemon as Kyogre and Xerneas (that aren't running psyshock, which only 8.54% did last month) surely means that it meets the criteria specified above, and I would therefore suggest that Amoonguss be placed in C rank.
Ditto is an unusual pokemon in that it could never fit the above description: It doesn't really have a niche because it's, well, ditto. That said, I've found it to be very useful in this metagame, as it forces your opponent to be extremely careful when using setup sweepers - of which there are a lot in this metagame, from Mega Ray to Ekiller Arceus to CM Arceus formes to GeoXern to Baton Pass teams... Honestly, there's rarely a game in which Ditto isn't useful. Therefore, I would recommend it be placed in B or B- rank.
Skarmory is a pokemon that I used for a short while before I stopped bothering, simply because the things it's supposed to beat can all get around it. Mega Ray, which loses when running some sets, can simply run V-Create or Overheat to destroy it. Arceus can similarly run Overheat, although it doesn't as often, meaning the two main pokemon Skarmory is meant to counter actually beat it quite often.
Skarmory also gets reliable recovery and access to Stealth Rock, however these are its only real pros when compared to Klefki which is in a number of ways more likely to beat its opponents, for example being able to make Darkrai switch out or become crippled. Moreover, I find Skarmory to rarely be more useful than Yveltal or Lugia in any one situation. It should, however, be remembered that it is a far more usable mon than a number of others, and I therefore recommend a rank of B- or C+.
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Lot of work put in by both of you :]
Just one more question though, why is Aegi still in B? It isn't that viable a pokemon because King's Shield isn't able to block status moves and it only partially works as a fairy check (Best counter to Xerneas, unless bulky and it isn't able to handle Fairy-Arceus very well).
Just one more question though, why is Aegi still in B? It isn't that viable a pokemon because King's Shield isn't able to block status moves and it only partially works as a fairy check (Best counter to Xerneas, unless bulky and it isn't able to handle Fairy-Arceus very well).
I like most of these, the only placement that really stands out to me is Arc Poison in C rank, I could easily see this being B-, although right now just nomming for C+. The defensive set is really solid and comes without the stacked fire and fighting weaknesses of Steelceus, and tends to do better vs geoxern imo. However, Joshz also put me onto the offensive set, which I ignored for a month, tested, and realized it was godly. It's not really weak to much common but has that annoying poison/ground/priority/filler coverage (SD, Rocks, stone edge, wisp, recover) that's fairly annoying to switch into, especially since who would ever use offensive Poisonceus amirite. As far as ranks go, this is easily the best thing in C, it shouldn't be ranked with Garchomp and Iceceus, I see it having a lot of the same somewhat niche but really solid team support uses as TTar and Bronzong, which can get it a teamslot far easier than its C counterparts . Oh and this also doubles as a set showoff post, go try offensive Poisonceus :]
I can definitely agree with moving up Poisonceus, but will avoid doing it until I have approval from others. Same story with the majority of DoW's nominations. I have a few suggestions myself actually.
Decrease by a few ranks, Giratina-Origin doesn't seem A- worthy to me at least. This thing is too weak to properly defeat anything and it's not bulky enough to do anything except wall EKiller which other things can do while checking other mons as well. This thing is not as great as anticipated.
Ranking at least at D, this pokemon is a great offensive lead or late wallbreaker. Hits harder than Regular LO Blaziken, also reaches a desirable speed tier. I started using it because I had no mega and I was using LO Blaziken as a test. This thing is actually a great mon. I would truly recommend people to try it. Flare Blitz, Low Kick, Stone Edge, Protect enables the defeat of so many top tier mons. It does lose to MegaRay if it can't predict a Stone Edge switchin but otherwise provides a great set.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
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252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 175-208 (43.3 - 51.4%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKORanking at least at D, this pokemon is a great offensive lead or late wallbreaker. Hits harder than Regular LO Blaziken, also reaches a desirable speed tier. I started using it because I had no mega and I was using LO Blaziken as a test. This thing is actually a great mon. I would truly recommend people to try it. Flare Blitz, Low Kick, Stone Edge, Protect enables the defeat of so many top tier mons. It does lose to MegaRay if it can't predict a Stone Edge switchin but otherwise provides a great set.
Thoughts?
252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 168-198 (41.5 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
How exactly does it hit harder than LO regular blaze? The only real differences are a) It has slightly higher bulk (which when in AG is barely noticable outside of sometimes surviving a Xerneas Moonblast, b) it dies slightly slower to recoil though it still dies to p-don's eq which will inevitably end it if it can't KO (which regular has a higher chance of), and c) it wastes a mega slot. With things like M-ray, M-gengar and magic bouncers to choose, it's pretty much never going to be a better choice than LO in my opinion.
Edit: Oh, and higher speed. I'm sure that will come in useful.
Yea I actually completely failed there by comparing the base stats rather than the Lv100 stats for Bkaziken and its mega counterpart. The speed is somewhat helpful still and so is the removal of LO damage which just triggers my OCD. We did have it ranked D before to show that the standard set is better, and the mega version is definitely still D worthy if we're ranking regular that high. Idek to be honest.
Here's the non-mega Blaziken analysis I've been writing. Please PM if there's anything wrong with it.
OVERVIEW
Blaziken, thanks to the lack of the Baton Pass clause within AG, has become one of the most viable Baton Pass users in the tier. Seeing as it only clocks in at a base speed of 80, this may not seem so, but its ability Speed Boost can quickly ramp up Blaziken's stats, while access to boosting moves such as Agility, Bulk Up and Swords Dance serve to improve Blaziken's ability to set up team-members with the means to sweep an opponent's team. Access to powerful STAB moves such as Low Kick and Blaze Kick allow Blaziken to even act as a sweeper itself, if the need arises for Blaziken to act in this capacity. However, with the reign of the notorious Primal Groudon, one of the most prominent users of Roar, and the presence of Pokemon such as Arceus, who also commonly run Roar, Blaziken, or indeed all Baton Pass users, have reached a point at which the strategy of Baton Pass is quickly becoming extremely hard, if not unviable, to use.
SET
Name: Blaziken (Baton Passer)
Move 1: Protect
Move 2: Low Kick / Blaze Kick
Move 3: Bulk Up / Swords Dance
Move 4: Baton Pass
Item: Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
Nature: Jolly
Evs: 128 HP / 128 Atk / 252 Spe
SET COMMENTS
Moves
========
Protect is one of the key moves on this set, allowing Blaziken to safely build up speed so as to outspeed it's opponent or to simply quick pass to another ally. Low Kick is preferable over Blaze Kick, but one can decide about which is more needed due to team synergy. The main purpose of these two moves being present is to avoid Taunt, which would otherwise cripple this set. Once again, Bulk Up and Swords Dance can be chosen between, depending on what is needed for the team, as extra defense can be just as useful as a greater attack stat. Finally, Baton Pass is the staple move of this set, allowing Blaziken to boost its allies to a degree that they couldn't previously reach.
Set Details
========
The item here, the Focus Sash, is supremely important, as it allows Blaziken to safely use Bulk Up or Swords Dance without getting KO'ed by an opponent. The Focus Sash is absolutely vital, as nearly all Uber Pokemon can easily OHKO Blaziken, including Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre, . The Nature is to maximize speed, which is the most important stat on this set without doubt. EVs are split between HP and Attack as both are reasonably important.
Usage Tips
========
Blaziken is best used in a leading position, due to the necesity of its Focus Sash. THe idea here is to come in on turn one and then, by judging the opponent's lead, either use Protect so as to aviod damage or use a boosting move so as to take advantage of an oponent hazard setting. It is usually a good idea to Baton Pass as soon as the stat boost is great enough to give an advantage to the player, since the user of this strategy can never e quite sure when their opponent might switch in a Roar or Whirlwind user. If used in this manner, Blaziken usually survives the eary game stage of play, and can come in to set up another Pokemon for success if the first sweep is prevented. In this case, it is generally a good idea to stay in for fewer turns, as a previously unaware opponent will have figured out the strategy and will better be able to predict what you pass the stats to as well as how to defeat Blaziken. It must also be noted to never set up on an opponent's team that contains Ditto, since the set-up will probably not only become worthless, but often detrimental to your own team.
Team Options
========
Good team options for Blaziken mostly include Pokemon that are bulky enough to receive the stats safely but are either unable to or not set up in a way to boost themselves. As such, an offensively built Primal Groudon makes a good target to pass to, due to its bulk, its inability to be burnt or paralyzed and its access to an offensive moveset. Primal Kyogre, Ho-Oh and Giratina all make good Baton Pass targets for roughly the same reasons, although one has to be careful about hazards when passing to Ho-Oh. However, nearly all Pokemon that can survive a hit and have access to a good offensive movepool make good team-mates for Blaziken. Magic Bounce users, notably Diancie-Mega, also make good team options, due to the fact that Roar cannot be used against them and, especially so in Diancie-Mega's case, can even be passed to so as to create an offensive sweep.
STRATEGY COMMENTS
Other Options
=============
It is not always absolutely necessary for Blaziken to carry an offensive move so as to escape Taunt users, as Taunt is uncommon in the AG metagame and Baton Pass is Blaziken's main strategy, and while Taunted it may be better for the user to simply switch out anyway. The attacking move can be replaced with a secondary boostng move or even substitute, as passing not only stats but a substitute to anothe rPokemon can often give a large advantage. However, most high ladder plays will carry Taunt somewhere on their team, so this strategy is not altogether reliable.
Checks and Counters
===================
**Roar**: Users of Roar, such as Primal Groudon, force laziken to lose its stat boosts, thus voiding what is essentially all of Blaziken's strategy. There isn't really any way to circumvent this other than having a team that doesn't solely rely on Blaziken's stat passing.
**Whirlwind**: Users of Whirlwind, such as Lugia, are a threat to Blaziken in the same way that users of Roar are. It voids Blaziken's stat boosts, rendering it's strategy useless while that Pokemon is in the game.
**Dragon Tail**: Users of Dragon Tail, particularly Giratina, are extremely troublesome to Blaziken, for much the same reason as the latter two. Giraina deserves a mention in particular because it resists most of Blaziken's moveset as well as possessing considerable bulk.
**Intimidate**: Intimidate can hurt Blaziken's viability as a Baton Passer, as the lowered attack stat can often detriment the chances of a successful sweep following Blaziken's passing.
OVERVIEW
Blaziken, thanks to the lack of the Baton Pass clause within AG, has become one of the most viable Baton Pass users in the tier. Seeing as it only clocks in at a base speed of 80, this may not seem so, but its ability Speed Boost can quickly ramp up Blaziken's stats, while access to boosting moves such as Agility, Bulk Up and Swords Dance serve to improve Blaziken's ability to set up team-members with the means to sweep an opponent's team. Access to powerful STAB moves such as Low Kick and Blaze Kick allow Blaziken to even act as a sweeper itself, if the need arises for Blaziken to act in this capacity. However, with the reign of the notorious Primal Groudon, one of the most prominent users of Roar, and the presence of Pokemon such as Arceus, who also commonly run Roar, Blaziken, or indeed all Baton Pass users, have reached a point at which the strategy of Baton Pass is quickly becoming extremely hard, if not unviable, to use.
SET
Name: Blaziken (Baton Passer)
Move 1: Protect
Move 2: Low Kick / Blaze Kick
Move 3: Bulk Up / Swords Dance
Move 4: Baton Pass
Item: Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
Nature: Jolly
Evs: 128 HP / 128 Atk / 252 Spe
SET COMMENTS
Moves
========
Protect is one of the key moves on this set, allowing Blaziken to safely build up speed so as to outspeed it's opponent or to simply quick pass to another ally. Low Kick is preferable over Blaze Kick, but one can decide about which is more needed due to team synergy. The main purpose of these two moves being present is to avoid Taunt, which would otherwise cripple this set. Once again, Bulk Up and Swords Dance can be chosen between, depending on what is needed for the team, as extra defense can be just as useful as a greater attack stat. Finally, Baton Pass is the staple move of this set, allowing Blaziken to boost its allies to a degree that they couldn't previously reach.
Set Details
========
The item here, the Focus Sash, is supremely important, as it allows Blaziken to safely use Bulk Up or Swords Dance without getting KO'ed by an opponent. The Focus Sash is absolutely vital, as nearly all Uber Pokemon can easily OHKO Blaziken, including Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre, . The Nature is to maximize speed, which is the most important stat on this set without doubt. EVs are split between HP and Attack as both are reasonably important.
Usage Tips
========
Blaziken is best used in a leading position, due to the necesity of its Focus Sash. THe idea here is to come in on turn one and then, by judging the opponent's lead, either use Protect so as to aviod damage or use a boosting move so as to take advantage of an oponent hazard setting. It is usually a good idea to Baton Pass as soon as the stat boost is great enough to give an advantage to the player, since the user of this strategy can never e quite sure when their opponent might switch in a Roar or Whirlwind user. If used in this manner, Blaziken usually survives the eary game stage of play, and can come in to set up another Pokemon for success if the first sweep is prevented. In this case, it is generally a good idea to stay in for fewer turns, as a previously unaware opponent will have figured out the strategy and will better be able to predict what you pass the stats to as well as how to defeat Blaziken. It must also be noted to never set up on an opponent's team that contains Ditto, since the set-up will probably not only become worthless, but often detrimental to your own team.
Team Options
========
Good team options for Blaziken mostly include Pokemon that are bulky enough to receive the stats safely but are either unable to or not set up in a way to boost themselves. As such, an offensively built Primal Groudon makes a good target to pass to, due to its bulk, its inability to be burnt or paralyzed and its access to an offensive moveset. Primal Kyogre, Ho-Oh and Giratina all make good Baton Pass targets for roughly the same reasons, although one has to be careful about hazards when passing to Ho-Oh. However, nearly all Pokemon that can survive a hit and have access to a good offensive movepool make good team-mates for Blaziken. Magic Bounce users, notably Diancie-Mega, also make good team options, due to the fact that Roar cannot be used against them and, especially so in Diancie-Mega's case, can even be passed to so as to create an offensive sweep.
STRATEGY COMMENTS
Other Options
=============
It is not always absolutely necessary for Blaziken to carry an offensive move so as to escape Taunt users, as Taunt is uncommon in the AG metagame and Baton Pass is Blaziken's main strategy, and while Taunted it may be better for the user to simply switch out anyway. The attacking move can be replaced with a secondary boostng move or even substitute, as passing not only stats but a substitute to anothe rPokemon can often give a large advantage. However, most high ladder plays will carry Taunt somewhere on their team, so this strategy is not altogether reliable.
Checks and Counters
===================
**Roar**: Users of Roar, such as Primal Groudon, force laziken to lose its stat boosts, thus voiding what is essentially all of Blaziken's strategy. There isn't really any way to circumvent this other than having a team that doesn't solely rely on Blaziken's stat passing.
**Whirlwind**: Users of Whirlwind, such as Lugia, are a threat to Blaziken in the same way that users of Roar are. It voids Blaziken's stat boosts, rendering it's strategy useless while that Pokemon is in the game.
**Dragon Tail**: Users of Dragon Tail, particularly Giratina, are extremely troublesome to Blaziken, for much the same reason as the latter two. Giraina deserves a mention in particular because it resists most of Blaziken's moveset as well as possessing considerable bulk.
**Intimidate**: Intimidate can hurt Blaziken's viability as a Baton Passer, as the lowered attack stat can often detriment the chances of a successful sweep following Blaziken's passing.
I'm not sure about those HP EVs, they aren't put in HP to survive any specific attack and you have a Sash anyway.
Maybe putting Roar, Whirlwind and Dragon Tail together under "phazing"?
I never approved that analysis, and I don't agree with a lot of it.
Bulk Up is worth a mention in Other Options maybe, definitely not a slash on the primary set. Sub is 100% worth mentioning, and Life Orb > Sash as well as an alternative set. High Jump Kick is 100% worth a slash, moreso than Low Kick even. Idk why the fuck you put EVs in HP, ESPECIALLY with a sash, its 252 atk lol. Change Checks n Counters to Phazing, not "Roar" and "Whirlwind" "Dragon Tail" seperately, and give specific examples of users. You need more threats as well, check the Ubers Blaziken analysis for ideas but make sure not to copy/paste and to just build off of it.
There's a lot of errors overall, and this is why we require approval to post an analysis. It should look a lot better going into this stage than it does. The formatting is fine, its not terrible, but really needs improvement.
Bulk Up is worth a mention in Other Options maybe, definitely not a slash on the primary set. Sub is 100% worth mentioning, and Life Orb > Sash as well as an alternative set. High Jump Kick is 100% worth a slash, moreso than Low Kick even. Idk why the fuck you put EVs in HP, ESPECIALLY with a sash, its 252 atk lol. Change Checks n Counters to Phazing, not "Roar" and "Whirlwind" "Dragon Tail" seperately, and give specific examples of users. You need more threats as well, check the Ubers Blaziken analysis for ideas but make sure not to copy/paste and to just build off of it.
There's a lot of errors overall, and this is why we require approval to post an analysis. It should look a lot better going into this stage than it does. The formatting is fine, its not terrible, but really needs improvement.
Yes, all of that would go under phazing
If anybody's writing an analysis I'd be happy to give it an extra check if you PM it to me before posting it in the thread. Qualifications: Am PU QC member, have 16 uploaded analyses, play AG edit: or just josh lol although i could help
edit:
[11/2/15, 3:42:02 PM] Josh: its already a rule people have to pm me for approval before posting an analysis
[11/2/15, 3:42:08 PM] Josh: to qc it
nvm I thought people were just posting these. that explains a lot
I don't really understand how this works, but at a glance, I don't understand why Klefki is S, when I see it around B+. Ray is probably A+, Xern is A, Kyogre is A, Skarm is B+, Scollipede is B+, and Groudon should be B. I feel like Deoxys-S and Giratina-O should be B+ too. Possibly Ditto for B. But then, I don't completely understand how these things work. From the definition given, I really fail to understand how standard Rayquaza can even be in C, when it is totally outclassed by Arceus in almost every way. Sorry, didn't read a single comment on the thread, and I really should have, but I don't really have the time currently.
I made a rough overlook on the thread, and I didn't see anybody posting sets about these Pokemon, so I decided I would share some of my sets.
Deoxys-Attack @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 20 SpA / 236 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower
- Flash Cannon
- Extreme Speed
This guy can kill so many things. Maybe I should run Lonely so that any Pokemon with Download can't get Special type boosts, but the main user of Download in AG is Genesect, and I don't fancy it having a +1 E-speed. The EV spread gives Deoxys 395 speed, so it outspeeds max speed base 130s, such as Mewtwo and Gengar-Mega. It can OHKO standard E-speed Arceus with stealth rocks, or KO by following up with E-Speed. I don't run Low Kick as it won't get a guaranteed OHKO on Darkrai, but if that isn't a concern, Low Kick is probably better. Psycho Boost leaves a dent on Groudon, and Groudon-Primal. Extreme Speed is so useful for getting KOs on Pokemon with low HP. Flash Cannon beats any Fairy type, which is cool. Dark Pulse can be used instead, as it hits most Pokemon in AG strong, and has a 20% chance to Flinch, which could win you games.
Kyurem-White @ Choice Specs
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 32 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Earth Power
This guy can live from two E-speed from Arceus, outspeed all max speed base 90s, and deal huge damage on many Pokemon. Turboblaze helps get rid of Lugia, which can serve as a threat to all AG teams. Draco Meteor just leaves a huge dent, or OHKOs the majority of the AG metagame. Earth Power is for coverage, because I had nothing else I could think of. Maybe Fusion Fire is better. I can list a lot of calcs, but too lazy.
Glalie @ Leftovers
Ability: Moody
EVs: 248 HP / 108 Def / 152 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Substitute
- Frost Breath
- Protect
This has to be one of my favorite Pokemon in AG. It won me so many games, all due to pure hax. The EV spread ensures that Glalie outspeeds all Max Speed neutral nature base 90s. By opting for running an EV spread of 204 HP, 128 Defense, and 176 Speed, you can outspeed max speed Mewtwo after +1 speed, along with giving Glalie max leftovers recovery. This, however, will make Glalie less bulky and suffer more Stealth Rock damage. 248 HP is used to lower HP damage, and the rest is invested in defense, to decrease physical damage. Also, Sheer Cold can be used over Frost Breath, which can win you some games as long as your opponent doesn't have substitute.
Deoxys-Attack @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 20 SpA / 236 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower
- Flash Cannon
- Extreme Speed
This guy can kill so many things. Maybe I should run Lonely so that any Pokemon with Download can't get Special type boosts, but the main user of Download in AG is Genesect, and I don't fancy it having a +1 E-speed. The EV spread gives Deoxys 395 speed, so it outspeeds max speed base 130s, such as Mewtwo and Gengar-Mega. It can OHKO standard E-speed Arceus with stealth rocks, or KO by following up with E-Speed. I don't run Low Kick as it won't get a guaranteed OHKO on Darkrai, but if that isn't a concern, Low Kick is probably better. Psycho Boost leaves a dent on Groudon, and Groudon-Primal. Extreme Speed is so useful for getting KOs on Pokemon with low HP. Flash Cannon beats any Fairy type, which is cool. Dark Pulse can be used instead, as it hits most Pokemon in AG strong, and has a 20% chance to Flinch, which could win you games.
Kyurem-White @ Choice Specs
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 32 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Earth Power
This guy can live from two E-speed from Arceus, outspeed all max speed base 90s, and deal huge damage on many Pokemon. Turboblaze helps get rid of Lugia, which can serve as a threat to all AG teams. Draco Meteor just leaves a huge dent, or OHKOs the majority of the AG metagame. Earth Power is for coverage, because I had nothing else I could think of. Maybe Fusion Fire is better. I can list a lot of calcs, but too lazy.
Glalie @ Leftovers
Ability: Moody
EVs: 248 HP / 108 Def / 152 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Substitute
- Frost Breath
- Protect
This has to be one of my favorite Pokemon in AG. It won me so many games, all due to pure hax. The EV spread ensures that Glalie outspeeds all Max Speed neutral nature base 90s. By opting for running an EV spread of 204 HP, 128 Defense, and 176 Speed, you can outspeed max speed Mewtwo after +1 speed, along with giving Glalie max leftovers recovery. This, however, will make Glalie less bulky and suffer more Stealth Rock damage. 248 HP is used to lower HP damage, and the rest is invested in defense, to decrease physical damage. Also, Sheer Cold can be used over Frost Breath, which can win you some games as long as your opponent doesn't have substitute.
You're free to nominate a Pokémon for a rank, but provide arguments: why did you place those there?
Also how can you say E-killer outclasses Ray? They're different. For instance Ray has 180 base Atk AND can hold an item, compared to Arceus's base 120 Atk, and has Dragon and Flying STABs and access to V-create and Dragon Dance. Yes, Arceus is probably the best mon in the meta but STAB Extreme Speed does not outclass Mega Ray.
Also Mega Ray can pull off mixed and full special sets, Arceus can't aside from Overheat.
I said standard Ray, not Mega Ray. I was wondering why Ray was even listed in the first place. Also, I will list up a reason and post them later, thanks for the feed back.
Standard ray only works with loads of support. It's not commonly used in the metagame and outclassing it doesn't mean alot lol.
Glalie is an interesting pokemon but its not the best moody user in the tier (smeargle) I'm questioning your choice of lefties over glalite as mega evolving gives you speed so you can outspeed base 90's and give you better stab options than frost breath (return/double edge) and abuse the chance to sweep if you have it. About your arguement about klefki, Klefki is S because it forces on so many coin flips and once a klefki has burned through your lum berries another one is free to para your entire team,swagger your mons to death and even gain evasion. thanks Joshz .While I admit more people are preparing for it its still pretty potent and you can't forget klefki as a threat when teambuilding. Ditto is A because it comes in on your set up (besides xerneas's) and with scarf forces you out and from time to time can win a game because of the setups that it took advantage of. The rest of your arguements aren't bad (I love gira-o tho because it walls and status down pdon) but maybe you should consider lurking more of the metagame and seeing whats its about.
EDIT:Smeargle is one of the best moody users because it has access to baton pass and moves like spore and dark void that send your opponents to sleep for x amount of turns and help you take advantage of moody more. Smeargle also has king's shield which is decent for physical attackers. Also Glalie is helpless against dragon tail and roar. Two moves that are very common in the meta where as glalie just loses to roar and dtail (and whirlwind). If you say that you haven't prepared for klefki when teambuilding and had no struggles you are either really lucky or lying tbh. Why do you think lum berry is one of the most common items in the tier? Moving on to glalie, the reason I suggested a mega stone is that leftovers is a meh item slot in its case. 80/80/80 bulk isnt really really ideal and many things can easily OHKO even if your defenses are boosted.
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Ditto is C+. I was saying the Ditto should be promoted. I was also asking why you bother even listing standard Ray on the list, when it has no niche I can think of. I've played Glalie many times, and although I never tried Mega, I can tell you that leftovers is a must. Glalie is godly with toxic spikes support, and Glalie once single-handedly given me a victory against GunnerRohan. Also, I don't understand what the Klefki argument is about, as I never lost to a single Klefki team, and I never consider it when building my team. I don't really understand how Smeargle is a better abuser for Moody. It maybe the best Pokemon with Moody, but it sure doesn't abuse Moody as well as Glalie ever will.
Edit: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-221494211 Does this replay show how luck can win you games that you normally can't? (I know, Gunner would have won if he had Diamond Storm and he used it on turn 2. Still, it's pretty ridiculous, as shit like this happens about every 4 to 5 battles I use Glalie in.) Basically, if you get a boost in speed, evasion, or defense/sp.d, you win. If you don't, switch out and find another opportunity.
Edit 2: Another good replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-218838986 http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-222284155
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Alright, I haven't read all the replies yet, so some of these questions might have already been answered, but I'll address them all anyway.
Klefki is at S rank and should definitely stay at S rank for its ability to provide one of th most difficult set of hax to beat in the entire metagame. With Prankster it has priority Thunder Wave, which by itself is a considerable threat. However, without the Swagger clause, Swagger also has priority, which further lowers the chances of an opponent hitting through the hax. Substitute allows for Klefki to take a hit if the opposition gets a hit through the hax and the last move could be a wide range of other useful moves, such as Screens, Spikes, Flash Cannon, Dazzling Gleam or Foul Play, which I personally like because it can capitalize on Swagger.
Rayquaza (I assume you're talking about the mega) is one of the top threats in the meta because it has a base stat total of 780, which is well distributed to make a HO set, while not being crippled by its need to hold an item. Due to this, it can use a large range of sets, such as Lum, Choice items and LO to name a few. It also has access to a good variety of set-up moves, such as Dragon Dance, which allow it to 6-0 unwary players in a matter of turns. I haven't got the calcs right now, but a neutral STAB Dragon Ascent, once Dragon Dance has been used, can crush some of the bulkiest mons in the tier, such as Pogre while outspeeding nearly all Pokemon. THis is definitely S material.
Xerneas is S because of its durability in many different roles. The most famous role is, of course, Geoxern, where Xerneas can get of Geomancy, which gives +2 SpA, SpD and Spe in one turn because of the Power Herb. It can also be used with Scarf for serious and quick power or as a cleric set to keep a team healthy. Geoxern is already enough, imo, to give Xerneas S rank but these other roles give it a definite S rank.
Sorry I don't have time for the rest, I'll get to them, but you should really give a few reasons before suggesting ranks, just so that other people can understand your arguments.
I just want to make a quit statement, not really tempted to talk about the things being said because I'm busy.
hexandwhy I think your opinion is heavily biased by your use of Transcendent God Champion's team and similar style teams. Just because Lugia checks a mon well, it doesn't make it unviable. Also remember to back up your statements, but I'm sure this has already been said. I can't just come and say Arceus is unviable because I use Skarmory and Yveltal. Also what does Flash Cannon on Deoxys intend to hit? Diancie? I'm 99% sure Psycho Boost OHKOs. On pure fairies, Psycho Boost does more. I'd substitute for SR if you were planning to use this as a lead.
I assume the mons listed are the biggest threats to your team. Kyurem-White wrecks Lugia and nothing on your team can check it. Deoxys-A can run taunt to disable your Lugia and just screw over the rest of your team. Glalie is your bae so I won't comment.
hexandwhy I think your opinion is heavily biased by your use of Transcendent God Champion's team and similar style teams. Just because Lugia checks a mon well, it doesn't make it unviable. Also remember to back up your statements, but I'm sure this has already been said. I can't just come and say Arceus is unviable because I use Skarmory and Yveltal. Also what does Flash Cannon on Deoxys intend to hit? Diancie? I'm 99% sure Psycho Boost OHKOs. On pure fairies, Psycho Boost does more. I'd substitute for SR if you were planning to use this as a lead.
I assume the mons listed are the biggest threats to your team. Kyurem-White wrecks Lugia and nothing on your team can check it. Deoxys-A can run taunt to disable your Lugia and just screw over the rest of your team. Glalie is your bae so I won't comment.
Klefki: I never had any problems of any kind, fighting Klefki, so I can't understand what other people are suffering.
Ray(Mega): I know it's a big threat, but I didn't know that being a "big threat" would automatically give you a ticket to S rank, when Lugia can be as big a threat as Ray. Heck, I even consider Smeargle a bigger threat to my team.
Xerneas: Maybe I'm not giving Xern the credit it deserves, because it never does too much damage against me, as 4 of my Pokemon check/counter most GeoXern. Still, Scarf is really good, and I agree that it's a solid threat in the AG metagame. I guess I understand why this guy is S.
Very, very true. I'm a pretty biased person. Also, Glalie is my bae. Well then, I shall consider a different move on Deoxys-A. Maybe Magic Coat + Low Kick. But I chose that guy because I used it in AG with quite a lot of success, not because it threatens my team. I find it that I can consistently KO one or two Pokemon per game, using that guy. As for Kyurem-White, I chose it because I'm currently testing it on the ladder with some success, it threatens my team above all else, and because I didn't see an analysis of it, so I thought it was worth mentioning. Hence the "I made a rough overlook on the thread, and I didn't see anybody posting sets about these Pokemon, so I decided I would share some of my sets."
"BIGGER THREAT TO MY TEAM"
Now I understand. Just because your team completely demolishes a Pokemon does not mean it isn't viable. As most people know, Zekrom is my favourite Pokemon within the tier, and if the tier analysis was written to my team as you seem to be doing Lugia and Pogre, to name a few of the viable mons Zekrom crushes, would be at D rank at best and Zekrom would be at S+++. However, the tier is not written to my team, for good reason, just like it isn't written to your team. It is written to the majority, and if you want a mon promoted/demoted you should address your pitch to the majority of teams while assessing whether or not your promotion/demotion is necessary.
Edit: I'm not sure how correct this is, but posting your sets rather than discussing promotions/demotions might belong in the AG discussion thread? Not sure.