And now for something completely different
can you tell us how? I'd like to know why Clef works as a lead when faced with, say, smeargle, darkrai, deoxys speed and scolipede
I think one comes to know when a pokemon is just not worth using? Never mind though, I'll edit them to give more 'specific' reasons. I think I pretty much clarified why Clefable should be in B.... Unaware => Stat boosts of the opposing pokemon aren't taken into account when using damaging moves. The leftovers set is able to check many set-up sweepers such as Xerneas, Ghost-ceus (SD), M-Rayquaza and even E-Killer Arceus. (Clef is obv not a lead.)You might want to edit in reasoning to your posts. All these are is "1-2 facts about the mon so it should be in x rank" but they don't really give any sort of thought process behind the noms, leading to some really weird ones like Clefable to B when it's obviously a terrible mon, or heatran to stay in C. Some of these don't even have reasoning either. In general when suggesting a change, you should say why you think it should happen, as none of these make any sense based on the reasoning you gave (other than xatu)
Therefore, due to its ability to hard-counter three S-rank pokemon and be extremely useful against the other two, I think this pokemon should be C- rank.Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the AG metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 175-208 (43.3 - 51.4%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKORanking at least at D, this pokemon is a great offensive lead or late wallbreaker. Hits harder than Regular LO Blaziken, also reaches a desirable speed tier. I started using it because I had no mega and I was using LO Blaziken as a test. This thing is actually a great mon. I would truly recommend people to try it. Flare Blitz, Low Kick, Stone Edge, Protect enables the defeat of so many top tier mons. It does lose to MegaRay if it can't predict a Stone Edge switchin but otherwise provides a great set.
Yea I actually completely failed there by comparing the base stats rather than the Lv100 stats for Bkaziken and its mega counterpart. The speed is somewhat helpful still and so is the removal of LO damage which just triggers my OCD. We did have it ranked D before to show that the standard set is better, and the mega version is definitely still D worthy if we're ranking regular that high. Idek to be honest.252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 175-208 (43.3 - 51.4%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 168-198 (41.5 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
How exactly does it hit harder than LO regular blaze? The only real differences are a) It has slightly higher bulk (which when in AG is barely noticable outside of sometimes surviving a Xerneas Moonblast, b) it dies slightly slower to recoil though it still dies to p-don's eq which will inevitably end it if it can't KO (which regular has a higher chance of), and c) it wastes a mega slot. With things like M-ray, M-gengar and magic bouncers to choose, it's pretty much never going to be a better choice than LO in my opinion.
Edit: Oh, and higher speed. I'm sure that will come in useful.
I'm not sure about those HP EVs, they aren't put in HP to survive any specific attack and you have a Sash anyway.Here's the non-mega Blaziken analysis I've been writing. Please PM if there's anything wrong with it.
Blaziken, thanks to the lack of the Baton Pass clause within AG, has become one of the most viable Baton Pass users in the tier. Seeing as it only clocks in at a base speed of 80, this may not seem so, but its ability Speed Boost can quickly ramp up Blaziken's stats, while access to boosting moves such as Agility, Bulk Up and Swords Dance serve to improve Blaziken's ability to set up team-members with the means to sweep an opponent's team. Access to powerful STAB moves such as Low Kick and Blaze Kick allow Blaziken to even act as a sweeper itself, if the need arises for Blaziken to act in this capacity. However, with the reign of the notorious Primal Groudon, one of the most prominent users of Roar, and the presence of Pokemon such as Arceus, who also commonly run Roar, Blaziken, or indeed all Baton Pass users, have reached a point at which the strategy of Baton Pass is quickly becoming extremely hard, if not unviable, to use.
Name: Blaziken (Baton Passer)
Move 1: Protect
Move 2: Low Kick / Blaze Kick
Move 3: Bulk Up / Swords Dance
Move 4: Baton Pass
Item: Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
Evs: 128 HP / 128 Atk / 252 Spe
Protect is one of the key moves on this set, allowing Blaziken to safely build up speed so as to outspeed it's opponent or to simply quick pass to another ally. Low Kick is preferable over Blaze Kick, but one can decide about which is more needed due to team synergy. The main purpose of these two moves being present is to avoid Taunt, which would otherwise cripple this set. Once again, Bulk Up and Swords Dance can be chosen between, depending on what is needed for the team, as extra defense can be just as useful as a greater attack stat. Finally, Baton Pass is the staple move of this set, allowing Blaziken to boost its allies to a degree that they couldn't previously reach.
The item here, the Focus Sash, is supremely important, as it allows Blaziken to safely use Bulk Up or Swords Dance without getting KO'ed by an opponent. The Focus Sash is absolutely vital, as nearly all Uber Pokemon can easily OHKO Blaziken, including Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre, . The Nature is to maximize speed, which is the most important stat on this set without doubt. EVs are split between HP and Attack as both are reasonably important.
Blaziken is best used in a leading position, due to the necesity of its Focus Sash. THe idea here is to come in on turn one and then, by judging the opponent's lead, either use Protect so as to aviod damage or use a boosting move so as to take advantage of an oponent hazard setting. It is usually a good idea to Baton Pass as soon as the stat boost is great enough to give an advantage to the player, since the user of this strategy can never e quite sure when their opponent might switch in a Roar or Whirlwind user. If used in this manner, Blaziken usually survives the eary game stage of play, and can come in to set up another Pokemon for success if the first sweep is prevented. In this case, it is generally a good idea to stay in for fewer turns, as a previously unaware opponent will have figured out the strategy and will better be able to predict what you pass the stats to as well as how to defeat Blaziken. It must also be noted to never set up on an opponent's team that contains Ditto, since the set-up will probably not only become worthless, but often detrimental to your own team.
Good team options for Blaziken mostly include Pokemon that are bulky enough to receive the stats safely but are either unable to or not set up in a way to boost themselves. As such, an offensively built Primal Groudon makes a good target to pass to, due to its bulk, its inability to be burnt or paralyzed and its access to an offensive moveset. Primal Kyogre, Ho-Oh and Giratina all make good Baton Pass targets for roughly the same reasons, although one has to be careful about hazards when passing to Ho-Oh. However, nearly all Pokemon that can survive a hit and have access to a good offensive movepool make good team-mates for Blaziken. Magic Bounce users, notably Diancie-Mega, also make good team options, due to the fact that Roar cannot be used against them and, especially so in Diancie-Mega's case, can even be passed to so as to create an offensive sweep.
It is not always absolutely necessary for Blaziken to carry an offensive move so as to escape Taunt users, as Taunt is uncommon in the AG metagame and Baton Pass is Blaziken's main strategy, and while Taunted it may be better for the user to simply switch out anyway. The attacking move can be replaced with a secondary boostng move or even substitute, as passing not only stats but a substitute to anothe rPokemon can often give a large advantage. However, most high ladder plays will carry Taunt somewhere on their team, so this strategy is not altogether reliable.
Checks and Counters
**Roar**: Users of Roar, such as Primal Groudon, force laziken to lose its stat boosts, thus voiding what is essentially all of Blaziken's strategy. There isn't really any way to circumvent this other than having a team that doesn't solely rely on Blaziken's stat passing.
**Whirlwind**: Users of Whirlwind, such as Lugia, are a threat to Blaziken in the same way that users of Roar are. It voids Blaziken's stat boosts, rendering it's strategy useless while that Pokemon is in the game.
**Dragon Tail**: Users of Dragon Tail, particularly Giratina, are extremely troublesome to Blaziken, for much the same reason as the latter two. Giraina deserves a mention in particular because it resists most of Blaziken's moveset as well as possessing considerable bulk.
**Intimidate**: Intimidate can hurt Blaziken's viability as a Baton Passer, as the lowered attack stat can often detriment the chances of a successful sweep following Blaziken's passing.
Yes, all of that would go under phazingI'm not sure about those HP EVs, they aren't put in HP to survive any specific attack and you have a Sash anyway.
Maybe putting Roar, Whirlwind and Dragon Tail together under "phazing"?
You're free to nominate a Pokémon for a rank, but provide arguments: why did you place those there?I don't really understand how this works, but at a glance, I don't understand why Klefki is S, when I see it around B+. Ray is probably A+, Xern is A, Kyogre is A, Skarm is B+, Scollipede is B+, and Groudon should be B. I feel like Deoxys-S and Giratina-O should be B+ too. Possibly Ditto for B. But then, I don't completely understand how these things work. From the definition given, I really fail to understand how standard Rayquaza can even be in C, when it is totally outclassed by Arceus in almost every way. Sorry, didn't read a single comment on the thread, and I really should have, but I don't really have the time currently.
I said standard Ray, not Mega Ray. I was wondering why Ray was even listed in the first place. Also, I will list up a reason and post them later, thanks for the feed back.You're free to nominate a Pokémon for a rank, but provide arguments: why did you place those there?
Also how can you say E-killer outclasses Ray? They're different. For instance Ray has 180 base Atk AND can hold an item, compared to Arceus's base 120 Atk, and has Dragon and Flying STABs and access to V-create and Dragon Dance. Yes, Arceus is probably the best mon in the meta but STAB Extreme Speed does not outclass Mega Ray.
Also Mega Ray can pull off mixed and full special sets, Arceus can't aside from Overheat.
Standard ray only works with loads of support. It's not commonly used in the metagame and outclassing it doesn't mean alot lol.I said standard Ray, not Mega Ray. I was wondering why Ray was even listed in the first place. Also, I will list up a reason and post them later, thanks for the feed back.
Ditto is C+. I was saying the Ditto should be promoted. I was also asking why you bother even listing standard Ray on the list, when it has no niche I can think of. I've played Glalie many times, and although I never tried Mega, I can tell you that leftovers is a must. Glalie is godly with toxic spikes support, and Glalie once single-handedly given me a victory against GunnerRohan. Also, I don't understand what the Klefki argument is about, as I never lost to a single Klefki team, and I never consider it when building my team. I don't really understand how Smeargle is a better abuser for Moody. It maybe the best Pokemon with Moody, but it sure doesn't abuse Moody as well as Glalie ever will.Standard ray only works with loads of support. It's not commonly used in the metagame and outclassing it doesn't mean alot lol.
Glalie is an interesting pokemon but its not the best moody user in the tier (smeargle) I'm questioning your choice of lefties over glalite as mega evolving gives you speed so you can outspeed base 90's and give you better stab options than frost breath (return/double edge) and abuse the chance to sweep if you have it. About your arguement about klefki, Klefki is S because it forces on so many coin flips and once a klefki has burned through your lum berries another one is free to para your entire team,swagger your mons to death and even gain evasion. thanks Joshz .While I admit more people are preparing for it its still pretty potent and you can't forget klefki as a threat when teambuilding. Ditto is A because it comes in on your set up (besides xerneas's) and with scarf forces you out and from time to time can win a game because of the setups that it took advantage of. The rest of your arguements aren't bad (I love gira-o tho because it walls and status down pdon) but maybe you should consider lurking more of the metagame and seeing whats its about.
Alright, I haven't read all the replies yet, so some of these questions might have already been answered, but I'll address them all anyway.I don't really understand how this works, but at a glance, I don't understand why Klefki is S, when I see it around B+. Ray is probably A+, Xern is A, Kyogre is A, Skarm is B+, Scollipede is B+, and Groudon should be B. I feel like Deoxys-S and Giratina-O should be B+ too. Possibly Ditto for B. But then, I don't completely understand how these things work. From the definition given, I really fail to understand how standard Rayquaza can even be in C, when it is totally outclassed by Arceus in almost every way. Sorry, didn't read a single comment on the thread, and I really should have, but I don't really have the time currently.
Klefki: I never had any problems of any kind, fighting Klefki, so I can't understand what other people are suffering.Alright, I haven't read all the replies yet, so some of these questions might have already been answered, but I'll address them all anyway.
Klefki is at S rank and should definitely stay at S rank for its ability to provide one of th most difficult set of hax to beat in the entire metagame. With Prankster it has priority Thunder Wave, which by itself is a considerable threat. However, without the Swagger clause, Swagger also has priority, which further lowers the chances of an opponent hitting through the hax. Substitute allows for Klefki to take a hit if the opposition gets a hit through the hax and the last move could be a wide range of other useful moves, such as Screens, Spikes, Flash Cannon, Dazzling Gleam or Foul Play, which I personally like because it can capitalize on Swagger.
Rayquaza (I assume you're talking about the mega) is one of the top threats in the meta because it has a base stat total of 780, which is well distributed to make a HO set, while not being crippled by its need to hold an item. Due to this, it can use a large range of sets, such as Lum, Choice items and LO to name a few. It also has access to a good variety of set-up moves, such as Dragon Dance, which allow it to 6-0 unwary players in a matter of turns. I haven't got the calcs right now, but a neutral STAB Dragon Ascent, once Dragon Dance has been used, can crush some of the bulkiest mons in the tier, such as Pogre while outspeeding nearly all Pokemon. THis is definitely S material.
Xerneas is S because of its durability in many different roles. The most famous role is, of course, Geoxern, where Xerneas can get of Geomancy, which gives +2 SpA, SpD and Spe in one turn because of the Power Herb. It can also be used with Scarf for serious and quick power or as a cleric set to keep a team healthy. Geoxern is already enough, imo, to give Xerneas S rank but these other roles give it a definite S rank.
Sorry I don't have time for the rest, I'll get to them, but you should really give a few reasons before suggesting ranks, just so that other people can understand your arguments.
Very, very true. I'm a pretty biased person. Also, Glalie is my bae. Well then, I shall consider a different move on Deoxys-A. Maybe Magic Coat + Low Kick. But I chose that guy because I used it in AG with quite a lot of success, not because it threatens my team. I find it that I can consistently KO one or two Pokemon per game, using that guy. As for Kyurem-White, I chose it because I'm currently testing it on the ladder with some success, it threatens my team above all else, and because I didn't see an analysis of it, so I thought it was worth mentioning. Hence the "I made a rough overlook on the thread, and I didn't see anybody posting sets about these Pokemon, so I decided I would share some of my sets."I just want to make a quit statement, not really tempted to talk about the things being said because I'm busy.
hexandwhy I think your opinion is heavily biased by your use of Transcendent God Champion's team and similar style teams. Just because Lugia checks a mon well, it doesn't make it unviable. Also remember to back up your statements, but I'm sure this has already been said. I can't just come and say Arceus is unviable because I use Skarmory and Yveltal. Also what does Flash Cannon on Deoxys intend to hit? Diancie? I'm 99% sure Psycho Boost OHKOs. On pure fairies, Psycho Boost does more. I'd substitute for SR if you were planning to use this as a lead.
I assume the mons listed are the biggest threats to your team. Kyurem-White wrecks Lugia and nothing on your team can check it. Deoxys-A can run taunt to disable your Lugia and just screw over the rest of your team. Glalie is your bae so I won't comment.
"BIGGER THREAT TO MY TEAM"Klefki: I never had any problems of any kind, fighting Klefki, so I can't understand what other people are suffering.
Ray(Mega): I know it's a big threat, but I didn't know that being a "big threat" would automatically give you a ticket to S rank, when Lugia can be as big a threat as Ray. Heck, I even consider Smeargle a bigger threat to my team.
Xerneas: Maybe I'm not giving Xern the credit it deserves, because it never does too much damage against me, as 4 of my Pokemon check/counter most GeoXern. Still, Scarf is really good, and I agree that it's a solid threat in the AG metagame. I guess I understand why this guy is S.