Anything Goes Resources

[thesecondbest]

Those EVs can be optimized. Right now the calcs are:
252 SpA Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Drifblim: 464-548 (92 - 108.7%)
160+ Atk Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Drifblim: 198-234 (39.2 - 46.4%)
but with these EVs damage can be minimized to:
252 SpA Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 136 SpD Drifblim: 374-444 (84.8 - 100.6%)
160+ Atk Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 120 Def Drifblim: 162-192 (36.7 - 43.5%)
So 120 Def/ 136 SpD/ 252 Spe Timid is way more efficient than your EV spread, maing you 8.5% more bulky on both sides (Abomasnow is just first alphabetically so I used that for calcs). I don't know why people don't know how to EV effectively :(

 

[The Gunner]

Is that really a Abomasnow vs Drifblim calc in Anything Goes what the fuck is happening

 

[thesecondbest]

it just shows to maximize the ratio of bulk between the two spreads on physical on special stats, the numbers themselves mean nothing

 

[Adeleine]

Those EVs can be optimized. Right now the calcs are:
252 SpA Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Drifblim: 464-548 (92 - 108.7%)
160+ Atk Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Drifblim: 198-234 (39.2 - 46.4%)
but with these EVs damage can be minimized to:
252 SpA Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 136 SpD Drifblim: 374-444 (84.8 - 100.6%)
160+ Atk Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 120 Def Drifblim: 162-192 (36.7 - 43.5%)
So 120 Def/ 136 SpD/ 252 Spe Timid is way more efficient than your EV spread, maing you 8.5% more bulky on both sides (Abomasnow is just first alphabetically so I used that for calcs). I don't know why people don't know how to EV effectively :(

More investment in HP allows Drifblim to make and pass larger and better Substitutes. Drifblim shouldn't be taking many hits anyways with its atrocious defenses, especially in such a high powered metagame.

 

[hexandwhy]

Those EVs can be optimized. Right now the calcs are:
252 SpA Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Drifblim: 464-548 (92 - 108.7%)
160+ Atk Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Drifblim: 198-234 (39.2 - 46.4%)
but with these EVs damage can be minimized to:
252 SpA Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 136 SpD Drifblim: 374-444 (84.8 - 100.6%)
160+ Atk Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 120 Def Drifblim: 162-192 (36.7 - 43.5%)
So 120 Def/ 136 SpD/ 252 Spe Timid is way more efficient than your EV spread, maing you 8.5% more bulky on both sides (Abomasnow is just first alphabetically so I used that for calcs). I don't know why people don't know how to EV effectively :(

lel, I don't know how to do that. Could you tell me the optimal EV for Bulkceus with leftovers?
I have 204 HP, 176 Defense, 4 Sp.Def, and 124 speed, Bold. It has 124 speed to outspeed base 90s, and 204 HP for max leftovers recovery. 176 Defense for that extra one point of defense from the Nature boost.

 

[Mq]

Mega Mewtwo X to A

mewtwo is very powerfull for its amazing power and speed(which even beats darkrai) and also take a good care of arceus by drain punch
also it does about 50% damage to Yveltal,ho oh, rayquaza , xerneas ,arceus ,OHKO darkrai
and last of all this is the set that does that much damage

Mewtwo-Mega-Y (Mewtwo-Mega-X) @ Mewtwonite X
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Stone Edge
- Poison Jab
- Ice Punch

And plz guys dont think that MMX is any case lower than ray

 

[Adeleine]

Have a significant rating change proposal.
Groudon Primal: S -> A+

Groudon Prime is a great Pokemon in AG, but from my long experience with me he isn’t good enough to be relegated to tier. His low speed, porous special bulk, and reliance on moves with imperfect accuracy to be fully effective are flaws that I believe knocking it back a step. It can run Rock Polish, Thunder Wave, and Hone Claws to mitigate some of these, but it cant run all of these. Even further, it suffers from a huge case of 4-Moveslot-Syndrome, as it misses all of Precipice Blades (Most powerful against Kyogre and Fire resists), Fire Punch (Most powerful in weather and perfectly accurate), and Dragon Claw/Stone Edge for various coverage.

And two more minor ones.

Articuno: D -> Unranked
I just don't see why Articuno is at all relevant. Stealth Rocks are less common here, but for the most part I think any Arceus form can so vastly outperform it in any possible role that it doesnt deserve a mention, due to both stats and typing. Freeze-Dry is unique, but Kyogre Prime gets a guaranteed 2HKO on 252 HP 252+ SpD Articuno with Origin Pulse, and 252+ Freeze Dry from articuno only 3HKOs. Arceus Water also only is 3HKOd by 252+ Freeze Dry, allowing it to set up Calm Mind and heal/support. Both of these Pokmeon also outspend the base 85 bird.

Aron: D -> Unranked
Be it Taunt, hazards, status, or what, it is nearly a given that any team has a way to stop this. Once you see it in Preview, you know exactly what is coming. Also, Probopass gets Magic Coat and Pain Split.

 

[michaeloche]

Articuno: D -> Unranked
I just don't see why Articuno is at all relevant. Stealth Rocks are less common here, but for the most part I think any Arceus form can so vastly outperform it in any possible role that it doesnt deserve a mention, due to both stats and typing. Freeze-Dry is unique, but Kyogre Prime gets a guaranteed 2HKO on 252 HP 252+ SpD Articuno with Origin Pulse, and 252+ Freeze Dry from articuno only 3HKOs. Arceus Water also only is 3HKOd by 252+ Freeze Dry, allowing it to set up Calm Mind and heal/support. Both of these Pokmeon also outspend the base 85 bird.

Aron: D -> Unranked
Be it Taunt, hazards, status, or what, it is nearly a given that any team has a way to stop this. Once you see it in Preview, you know exactly what is coming. Also, Probopass gets Magic Coat and Pain Split.

The reason Articuno is even in the viability rankings in the first place is because of Mind Reader and Sheer Cold, not because of its offensive presence. I haven't seen much of it, but it does have enough niche to deserve D rank imo.

Aron, on the other hand, I will agree with. The only teams it can really beat are low ladder ones, and let's be honest, the low ladder sucks. Really, if you know what you're doing, you should have something that can beat Aron easily without even trying. And even if that wasn't the case, it's still outclassed by Probopass, as you mentioned, and arguably even Magnemite as a FEAR mon. (edit: and for what it's worth, neither one of those are ranked either)

tl;dr keep Articuno, get rid of Aron

 

[Adeleine]

The reason Articuno is even in the viability rankings in the first place is because of Mind Reader and Sheer Cold, not because of its offensive presence. I haven't seen much of it, but it does have enough niche to deserve D rank imo.

Aron, on the other hand, I will agree with. The only teams it can really beat are low ladder ones, and let's be honest, the low ladder sucks. Really, if you know what you're doing, you should have something that can beat Aron easily without even trying. And even if that wasn't the case, it's still outclassed by Probopass, as you mentioned, and arguably even Magnemite as a FEAR mon.

tl;dr keep Articuno, get rid of Aron

Oh, didnt know that for Articuno. I agree. And of course I agree with Aron.

 

[The Gunner]

And plz guys dont think that MMX is any case lower than ray

I'm just going to address this tiny part of megaqwer's post because I do not have the time to write an essay on Mega Mewtwo X's viability in AG and this diminuitive part of his post stung my skin.


If you're comparing Mega-Ray & MMX with each other, please know that MMX doesn't get half the kills that Mega-Ray does. Mega-Ray can single-handedly OHKO 75% of the meta after just one Dragon Dance, as opposed to MMX's only set up move being Bulk Up, which isn't the greatest set up move to begin with. Also, MMX's best niche in AG is being an Ekiller/Steelceus check, apart from that it struggles vs everything else and can barely 3hko any fat walls in AG. (Ghostceus, Groundceus, Fairyceus, Yveltal with Charti Berry AKA the good set etc.) Moreover, let me remind you that MMX requires taunt for it to not be set up bait for Xerneas/Pdon/Groundceus/Ghostceus. Furthermore, with M-Sab gaining popularity in AG, let me just point out that MMX can do N O T H I N G to trouble M-Sab whatsover, whereas M-Ray basically takes a crap all over M-Sab's face.


I would also like to remind you that in a 1v1 situation between MMX & Mega-Ray, Mega-Ray does 200% damage to MMX with Dragon Ascent, whereas MMX's best move to hit Ray with is Ice Punch, which doesn't even OHKO after rocks.

Edit: Let me also remind you that MMX doesn't always beat Darkrai unless it's a 1v1 situation. If Darkrai is in vs a liability on your team, you cannot even switch to MMX as it'll just turn into sleep fodder. Additionally, MMX can't even revenge kill substitute Darkrai (the good set) and any good player would switch their Darkrai out vs MMX if they were to have a suitable counter.

 

[skies]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/anything-goes-analyses-are-being-added.3556312/

 

[MZ]

Garchomp is somehow still C rank
[11/18/15, 2:51:55 PM] Joshz: I nommed it to be unranked
[11/18/15, 2:51:57 PM] Josh: a while ago
[11/18/15, 2:52:00 PM] Josh: nothing happened
gooser please do this, if someone wants to defend it at least explain why, when would you ever use this

 

[Chloe]

Garchomp is somehow still C rank
[11/18/15, 2:51:55 PM] Joshz: I nommed it to be unranked
[11/18/15, 2:51:57 PM] Josh: a while ago
[11/18/15, 2:52:00 PM] Josh: nothing happened
gooser please do this, if someone wants to defend it at least explain why, when would you ever use this

Because it's good.

Garchomp is an almost great lead that can wall EKiller if used effectively. It's a great rock setter, which can force PDon out (the most common lead). I would support a lowering maybe, but not a removal. It is plagued by the excess of fairies in the metagame and the majority of the special attacking force also wrecks it. Please excuse the lack of content and evidence, I'm busy.

 

[Mq]

Dual Groudon by Gunner Rohan​

Importable

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Mewtwonite X
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Punch

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Judgment
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Defog

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Lava Plume
- Precipice Blades
- Roar
- Stealth Rock

Yveltal @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Oblivion Wing
- Taunt
- Sucker Punch

Arceus-Steel @ Iron Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Toxic
- Recover
- Judgment
- Fire Blast

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fire Punch
- Precipice Blades
- Dragon Claw
- Rock Polish

Kelloggs Squad by Joshz

Importable

Crackle (Groudon-Primal) @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 236 HP / 36 Atk / 216 Def / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Fire Punch
- Precipice Blades

Snap (Klefki) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 228 HP / 244 Def / 36 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Substitute
- Double Team
- Swagger

Rayquaza-Mega @ Lum Berry
Ability: Delta Stream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Ascent
- Extreme Speed
- V-create

Krispies (Arceus) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Extreme Speed
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake

Pop (Kyogre) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Origin Pulse

Rice (Yveltal) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Def / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- Roost
- Toxic
- Taunt

Description

"This is a pretty standard ray set, the first 3 moves are pretty much universal besides the niche special mrays. The last move is commonly EQ, but I don't believe in quaking the earth, because Vcreate has much better coverage. The only thing EQ hits harder than V-create is Pdon, and really it doesn't even do 50% on bulky variants so why should that be worth the sacrificial spot? And really, anything EQ hits super effectively it does 200 and DA does 180 with stab, so its not even a notable difference. Goodbye Skarm, Fearorthorn, Genesect and Steelceus. Adamant is for that extra attacking boost, which is needed for many reasons.
I always ascent once on any espeeder within kill range of me, if they fuck up and SD thats a free ko pretty much. In fact, ascent half the time you would espeed against most mons like other mrays, diancies, wewak mons etc . Because ops will dance, switch out, or other stupid overpredicting shit and get shat on.
Alternate sets: EQ > V-create.

After mray, the only mon to be considered being suspected from ubers. Still being considered afaik. This thing is a fucking menace. It's insane stats, coupled with an amazing ability in removing its 4x weakness leaving it only weak to ground, pdon is just a menace. This is a very weird spread, but I'll explain.
236 HP/216 Def for general phat-assness. 20 spe to speedcreep other slow pdons, and why 20 over 4-8? Because I want to speed creep other speed creepers as well xD. Adamant and 36 Atk allowing it to OHKO most other dons, as well as hit a lot of shit incredibly hard for such a small investment. SR and Roar are necessities on any pdon because it needs to do its job. The rest is just bonus! Ground coverage is a necessity, so either blades or EQ are nice depending on how big your balls are. The last move slot is up for grabs, but I chose to go for stab + weather bonus.
Alternative sets: EQ > Precipice blades, Dragon claw/Thunder Wave/Lava plume (BURN THE WORLD)>Fire punch. Dragon claw is the one I recommend to fuck those rays anally on the switchin.

One of the most underrated threats in my opinion, scarf kyogre is LITERALLY legenwaitforitdary. Boasting a monsterous 150 base spA, + rain, + stab gives his water moves 300 base power. That's a LOT. Water Spout OHKO's nearly anything that doesn't resist it at full health. If you kill something with it, and they send out an ekiller, this is a hard moment. If it's a bad player, switch into yveltal always (or swagkeys if rip yves). If it's a good player, you have to consider whether you think theyll predict a switch and SD, or just go for espeed to weaken spout to the point it doesn't OHKO. Note that scarfgre does live an espeed, even after rocks, and even with LO, so you can switch out and then proceed to come back. But that is not ideal. Spout will OHKO the ekiller and its won games for me, so just gage it. Note that origin pulse does not OHKO. Origin pulse is just forf when you are too weak to spout effectively. Thunder and Ice Beam for obvious coverage. Modest, because again, 10% spA is too much to pass up on. One note with scarfgre: if they have a pdon alive, play cautiosly. Ice beam does around 40%, but if youdo something else and they predict switch, you're in big trouble.
Alternative sets: Scald > Origin pulse if you have no accuracy balls or want burn chance, Sheer cold > ice beam or > origin pulse, which is good in a pinch but really unviable.

Oh bulkyveltal, why must you be so fucking GOOD! Now, why is this thing so fuckin good in AG? A few reasons. It hard counters/borderlines walls ALL offensive ekiller variants. The defensive ones like bulkceus or fairycrus get tox'd or taunt'd and switched on. This thing can take on every arceus in the world and beyond! Oh, and Ascent from an mray just does around 45%. So you can roost right back up! Just learn to be good with predicting roost and fplay, and you'll realise how insane this is. My standard speed creep EVS, and the rest in pure def/bulk.
Alternative sets: Sucker punch/Oblivion wing > Taunt

Standard ekiller, not much to say. Lum because fuck yo darkrai, yo keys, and yo smeargle. Other then that not much to say.
Alternative sets: Overheat > SE

I saved the best (or worst for my opponents) for last. Anyone who's played high ladder AG knows how annoying swagplay keys are. What's more annoying than a swagplay? How about one that you also miss 9/10 times you aren't confused or para'd! I'm pretty sure I'm the only one that runs this in high ladder AG, and its just soooo much better than swagplay, not to mention the joy of watching your opponents selfdestruct is excellent. This thing also beats other klefki's in PP, so there's that.
Alternative moves: I guess you can run foul play > double team, but if you do I lose all respect for you and will probably banish you to the depths of team aqua's lair."

Terrakion Balance by Zangooser

Importable

Arceus @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Defog
- Swords Dance

Rayquaza @ Lum Berry
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Earthquake
- ExtremeSpeed
- Dragon Dance

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 8 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD / 240 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy
- Ingrain
- Geomancy

Ho-Oh @ Lum Berry
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Roost
- Sleep Talk

Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 140 Def / 4 SpD / 112 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Iron Head
- Double Kick

Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Defog
- Toxic
- Roost
- Whirlwind

"Landotina" Balance by Zangooser

Importable

Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Focus Blast
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Sleep Talk

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Ingrain
- Aromatherapy
- Geomancy

Arceus @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Perish Song
- Swords Dance

Giratina @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roar
- Rest
- Defog

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Protect
- Leech Seed

Rayquaza @ Lum Berry
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Dance

A Very Special Rayquaza by Zangooser

Importable

Rayquaza-Mega @ Choice Specs
Ability: Delta Stream
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Overheat
- Surf
- Dragon Ascent

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Roar

Yveltal @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- Roost
- Toxic
- Sucker Punch

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 132 Def / 252 SpA / 124 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Recover

Arceus-Steel @ Iron Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Extreme Speed
- Sleep Talk
- Swords Dance

Arceus @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Perish Song
- Swords Dance

Mush-room for improvement by Zangooser

Importable

Rayquaza @ Lum Berry
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Dance

Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Dragon Claw
- Stone Edge
- Roar

Yveltal @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- Sucker Punch
- Toxic
- Roost

Arceus-Fairy @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
- Judgment
- Defog
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover

Gunner's (Amoonguss) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Clear Smog
- Grass Knot
- Foul Play

​

Alternatively
Sample Teams Thread
Sample Teams Weebly

Also
Please feel free to leave any teams you don't mind giving up. It's great to have a diversity of playstyles for new players to try when starting the metagame. Thanks in advance.​

how do i add 1 team:p

 

[Chloe]

how do i add 1 team:p

Just paste it in here in a hide or something. Give a small description of each team member and its role on the team if possible. That's it really.

 

[AM]

Can someone elaborate why M-Sableye is so low in the ranking thread? Being at B in the same ranks of stuff like Genesect seems waaaaay off even with the whole opportunity cost argument about not using M-Ray granted they fall in different types of teams.

 

[Josh]

Can someone elaborate why M-Sableye is so low in the ranking thread? Being at B in the same ranks of stuff like Genesect seems waaaaay off even with the whole opportunity cost argument about not using M-Ray granted they fall in different types of teams.

• opportunity cost of using not mega ray is still huge, full stall is not a thing in ag because of how powerful the offensive threats are and semistall/balance can easily have mega ray
• most mega rays run lum, mega sab loses the matchup
• setup bait for xern and offenisve pdon
• kind of checks arceus, but arceus runs lum a lot and a +2 eq is doing a LOT
• does deal with non dazzling gleam/play rough klefki, so it does have that
• loses to every mon in a+ besides lugia as well

Mega Sab is definitely not bad. Deals with a lot of good threats. It just isnt that effective in AG a lot of the time.

 

[AM]

• opportunity cost of using not mega ray is still huge, full stall is not a thing in ag because of how powerful the offensive threats are and semistall/balance can easily have mega ray
• most mega rays run lum, mega sab loses the matchup
• setup bait for xern and offenisve pdon
• kind of checks arceus, but arceus runs lum a lot and a +2 eq is doing a LOT
• does deal with non dazzling gleam/play rough klefki, so it does have that
• loses to every mon in a+ besides lugia as well

Mega Sab is definitely not bad. Deals with a lot of good threats. It just isnt that effective in AG a lot of the time.

I kind of feel like this is an overexaggeration seeing as its function isn't really suppose to be winning against stuff like this 1v1 but to slow the progression down of some teams relying on rocks and ekiller so that fundamentals partners like p-don can do their job more easily. That's a pretty abstract way to look at this seeing as you have stuff like Genesect in the same rank which I find is seriously hard to entertain outside of being a bad Xern check. I mean if the idea is you're looking at it all from a 1v1 position then sure but it seems really weird that it's that low on some presumptions that don't take into account the entire picture.

 

[hexandwhy]

• opportunity cost of using not mega ray is still huge, full stall is not a thing in ag because of how powerful the offensive threats are and semistall/balance can easily have mega ray
• most mega rays run lum, mega sab loses the matchup
• setup bait for xern and offenisve pdon
• kind of checks arceus, but arceus runs lum a lot and a +2 eq is doing a LOT
• does deal with non dazzling gleam/play rough klefki, so it does have that
• loses to every mon in a+ besides lugia as well

Mega Sab is definitely not bad. Deals with a lot of good threats. It just isnt that effective in AG a lot of the time.

Most of what you said is indeed true, but you forgot two details. It beats Klefki and the fact that Mega Sableye is almost completely outclassed by Diancie-Mega. Oh, and also, full out stall isn't that useless in AG. There are many ways to beat Mega Ray, E-Killers, and Geo Xern, which can only set up a few times a match (Xern is easiest to counter, tbh). Just put two Pokemon to counter or check these Pokemon, and use 4 others to check the metagame. Mega Sableye is definitely a good Pokemon, it just gets 2HKO'd without offering much offensive pressure. It will, however, work well in all out stall teams. (I still think Diancie is stronger, as it beats opposing stall teams, and actually check a few mons)

 

[Josh]

I don't disagree with the premise hexandwhy, but I think you misinterpreted my point. Full stall isn't unviable in AG, its just unseen. I mean, how many full stall teams have you seen that are good? There is definitely potential, chansey ferro and gira form a formidable core, but it simply doesn't exist. And yeah, I left out that Mega Diancie serves as a much better Magic Bouncer.

Looking at the B rank all at once since I think AM and others could maybe use a breakdown:

You know what this does as a longtime OU player AM lmao. Annoying 50/50s, countering Fairies, etc.

Scarfed set has, well, coverage. Can check just about everything besides pdon in S rank, flamethrower hurts keys. Can also use explosion in a pinch, so it is never really dead weight when played right. Oh and Bug Buzz revenge kills Darkrai through a sub, which is a huge benefit in AG because of how ridiculous Darkrai is.

Another great mon on stall and semistall, arguably the best thing in this subrank. Walls ekiller pretty much. Beats Ray. Rest Talk variant beat keys. Can Defog or potentially Toxic pdon, but can't do much back besides phaze it. This is just in a 1v1 scenario of course, the mon synergizes well with Ferro (eating fire/fighting hits n stuff) extremely well as another benefit. Lacks offensive presence though, which sucks.

Good coverage in Fusion Flare and STABs, but honestly the worst mon in this subrank imo.

Powerful and fast as fuck, and can catch some Darkrai's offguard who predict X or LO with its nifty immunity. Outspeeds n OHKOs as well. Obvious drawback: pretty frail, weak to priority.

Sets Toxic Spikes, and can pull off a Baton Pass set decently well. An example of this mon being used excellently on Transcendent God Champion 's team, check it out there. This mon is a reliable lead, which is why its ranked here.

Bops stuff. Powerful as fuck. This fits on teams that need a Lugia counter, and it can absorb Twaves from keys which is nice. I've used Dual Screens to success personally, but it isn't viewed as viable often.


Mega Sab is very similar to these mons in viability.

 

[hexandwhy]

I don't disagree with the premise hexandwhy, but I think you misinterpreted my point. Full stall isn't unviable in AG, its just unseen. I mean, how many full stall teams have you seen that are good? There is definitely potential, chansey ferro and gira form a formidable core, but it simply doesn't exist. And yeah, I left out that Mega Diancie serves as a much better Magic Bouncer.

Looking at the B rank all at once since I think AM and others could maybe use a breakdown:

You know what this does as a longtime OU player AM lmao. Annoying 50/50s, countering Fairies, etc.

Scarfed set has, well, coverage. Can check just about everything besides pdon in S rank, flamethrower hurts keys. Can also use explosion in a pinch, so it is never really dead weight when played right. Oh and Bug Buzz revenge kills Darkrai through a sub, which is a huge benefit in AG because of how ridiculous Darkrai is.

Another great mon on stall and semistall, arguably the best thing in this subrank. Walls ekiller pretty much. Beats Ray. Rest Talk variant beat keys. Can Defog or potentially Toxic pdon, but can't do much back besides phaze it. This is just in a 1v1 scenario of course, the mon synergizes well with Ferro (eating fire/fighting hits n stuff) extremely well as another benefit. Lacks offensive presence though, which sucks.

Good coverage in Fusion Flare and STABs, but honestly the worst mon in this subrank imo.

Powerful and fast as fuck, and can catch some Darkrai's offguard who predict X or LO with its nifty immunity. Outspeeds n OHKOs as well. Obvious drawback: pretty frail, weak to priority.

Sets Toxic Spikes, and can pull off a Baton Pass set decently well. An example of this mon being used excellently on Transcendent God Champion 's team, check it out there. This mon is a reliable lead, which is why its ranked here.

Bops stuff. Powerful as fuck. This fits on teams that need a Lugia counter, and it can absorb Twaves from keys which is nice. I've used Dual Screens to success personally, but it isn't viewed as viable often.


Mega Sab is very similar to these mons in viability.

I don't get what Aegi can even do, but I agree with the rest, other than Mega Mewtwo Y. Also, that Genesect reminds me of an Infiltrator Ninjask which OHKO'd my Darkrai, LMAO. HunterStorm and I had a laugh with that. Can't agree more about Scollipede. I'd say that Mega Mewtwo sucks ass, however. Mewtwo is waaay better. What does Aegi even do?
Edit: My stall team, that I posted a RMT about, was pretty good.... Meh... I guess peaking ladder without using a single S rank Pokemon isn't good enough...

 

[The Gunner]

I completely agree with Josh's argument, but my 2 cents of advice is that we move Genesect down. It's just not in the same league as the mons in the B rank in any way. The scarf set is walled by a lot of things & it soft-checks only a few mons. I guess it can check Darkrai with Bug Buzz but honestly that's it's only perk. Also since Bug is such a poor typing, so many mons can switch into Genesect free of cost, namely P-don, Ho-oh, Support Arceus etc. It cannot even check Geomancy Xerneas as Xerneas can just run 44 speed to outspeed it at +2. It's fragility also ceases it from switching into anything basically. I really want to push this mon down to at least C- or something.

 

[MZ]

So I planned to make a big post a bit farther into the mini tour but might as well throw it out while the discussion is on. A lot of these rankings were somewhat preliminary until these mons got more testing (like 4 people actually contributed to these), and after seeing/building/testing around this mini tour I have a lot more noms. Feel free to disagree with all of these seeing as they're just my take and some are definitely more controversial. TEXT WALL GO

Genesect can drop to C+ or C, I think C- is a bit harsh mostly because being a nice scarfer + explosion to cripple things is surprisingly useful, even if you do have to sack it for it to be useful
I think Aegislash is really shit, ik other people like it but I'd much rather see it in B- or something, reliance on toxic and general passiveness and mediocrity makes this so lame. I also honestly wouldnt mind Mega Sableye in B+, magic bounce and foul play+wisp spam make this incredibly annoying to play around
Megamence can drop to C or something, probably lower. Offensive sets are obviously outclassed, defensive sets just aren't that good. The best thing it can do might be Gunner's Iron Defense BS, it's just so lame. Also it doesnt set up on don like it does in ubers with roar and crippling moves so common, and beating Ekiller isn't as nice when you can just run another one
I see some merit in Garchomp unlike obviously total shit things like Aron that shouldn't be ranked but unless gooser can show something why it should be used over groundceus/don/lando-t etc then this should be going to D or unranked
Oh and speaking of aron it's the eternal reminder to unrank this it's worse than numel and outclassed by pineco
Regular Groudon is ranked so high because "lum helps vs keys" and "not weak to groundceus" but honestly that shouldnt give it the same rank as things with much more clearly defined and solid niches like the almost B- bronzong, Ttar, etc. Can we drop this to at least C?
Skarmory is pretty cool, nobody runs thunder anymore because people underuse primal ogre and I wanna see this in B, spikes are v good, walling Ekiller is v good, etc, not too certain about this one though bc things like V-create ray and hooh fodder but some discussion would be nice
Arceus Poison is a really nice utility mon, SR 3 attacks is pretty nice, wisp or defog or SD can be filler too, more geoxern checks are never bad and this should not be hanging around regular rayquaza
Unrank Chansey, this was never decided upon but Mega gengar is p nice imo

then for some more tentative noms that some discussion on might be nice, dropping Palkia to C+ and bumping arc dragon to C might be nice. Also Jirachi is C-, not quite sure why and idk if any other council is, so if somebody's used and wants to suggest a different rank that would be chill

I'm still testing more stuff too, people should get out there and try this stuff that's been just sitting forgotten, ranked because of theoretical niches or their places on ubers VR. UNFREE ARON

 

[hexandwhy]

I don't get what Aegi can even do, but I agree with the rest, other than Mega Mewtwo Y. Also, that Genesect reminds me of an Infiltrator Ninjask which OHKO'd my Darkrai, LMAO. HunterStorm and I had a laugh with that. Can't agree more about Scollipede. I'd say that Mega Mewtwo sucks ass, however. Mewtwo is waaay better. What does Aegi even do?

So I planned to make a big post a bit farther into the mini tour but might as well throw it out while the discussion is on. A lot of these rankings were somewhat preliminary until these mons got more testing (like 4 people actually contributed to these), and after seeing/building/testing around this mini tour I have a lot more noms. Feel free to disagree with all of these seeing as they're just my take and some are definitely more controversial. TEXT WALL GO

Genesect can drop to C+ or C, I think C- is a bit harsh mostly because being a nice scarfer + explosion to cripple things is surprisingly useful, even if you do have to sack it for it to be useful
I think Aegislash is really shit, ik other people like it but I'd much rather see it in B- or something, reliance on toxic and general passiveness and mediocrity makes this so lame. I also honestly wouldnt mind Mega Sableye in B+, magic bounce and foul play+wisp spam make this incredibly annoying to play around
Megamence can drop to C or something, probably lower. Offensive sets are obviously outclassed, defensive sets just aren't that good. The best thing it can do might be Gunner's Iron Defense BS, it's just so lame. Also it doesnt set up on don like it does in ubers with roar and crippling moves so common, and beating Ekiller isn't as nice when you can just run another one
I see some merit in Garchomp unlike obviously total shit things like Aron that shouldn't be ranked but unless gooser can show something why it should be used over groundceus/don/lando-t etc then this should be going to D or unranked
Oh and speaking of aron it's the eternal reminder to unrank this it's worse than numel and outclassed by pineco
Regular Groudon is ranked so high because "lum helps vs keys" and "not weak to groundceus" but honestly that shouldnt give it the same rank as things with much more clearly defined and solid niches like the almost B- bronzong, Ttar, etc. Can we drop this to at least C?
Skarmory is pretty cool, nobody runs thunder anymore because people underuse primal ogre and I wanna see this in B, spikes are v good, walling Ekiller is v good, etc, not too certain about this one though bc things like V-create ray and hooh fodder but some discussion would be nice
Arceus Poison is a really nice utility mon, SR 3 attacks is pretty nice, wisp or defog or SD can be filler too, more geoxern checks are never bad and this should not be hanging around regular rayquaza
Unrank Chansey, this was never decided upon but Mega gengar is p nice imo

then for some more tentative noms that some discussion on might be nice, dropping Palkia to C+ and bumping arc dragon to C might be nice. Also Jirachi is C-, not quite sure why and idk if any other council is, so if somebody's used and wants to suggest a different rank that would be chill

I'm still testing more stuff too, people should get out there and try this stuff that's been just sitting forgotten, ranked because of theoretical niches or their places on ubers VR. UNFREE ARON

But... Chansey is a pretty decent Pokemon.... Although Blissey might be better, this tier has no damaging weather, and very little Knock Off. As long as a trapper doesn't exist, Chansey is better than Blissey, imo.

 

[MZ]

But... Chansey is a pretty decent Pokemon.... Although Blissey might be better, this tier has no damaging weather, and very little Knock Off. As long as a trapper doesn't exist, Chansey is better than Blissey, imo.

Yes, but why put yourself at a disadvantage to gengar? Like honestly they do exactly the same thing but blissey can run shed shell, that just makes it outclass Chansey. Your point doesn't address that at all
Then again nobody runs non lefties blissey so it really doesn't matter