I'm just going to step in and clear up a few misconceptions. Not arguing 1 way or the other but this has flawed arguments.
We go off of what's good, not off of what ladder uses. It's more reasonable to assume SpD keys in an argument like this. Don't use usage stats to define what's good, they're two separate things. Talonflame is a great example, there are many others. Like, only 70% of MMY have Psystrike and almost 20% have psychic for example.
Thats... dumb. Like, a seriously dumb argument. I don't want to be offensive, but here's where I'm coming from.
Lets say, in a hypothetical AG meta, with completely different people and trends, you want to use keys. As we know, Klefki is a really, really good mon. However, everyone hates keys, to the point they, at the expense of common sense, run 2 or 3 numels/LumDons/Chanseys/what have you that hardwalls klefki and can switch in multiple times in a match. It's not as though they slap them on at the end, they add them and see what kind of a team they can build with their last 3 or 4 slots. They are dumb for doing so, but they don't car- they hate being haxed more than they hate winning. Here, Its far better to use a powerful mon that can use those setup opportunities. WHile this obviously isn't the same as our meta, the point still stands.
I'm
not using usage to decide what's good- or rather, I'm using usage
of other mons to decide whats good. Saying that Calm klefki is a reasonable assumption is dumb. AG doesn't have a large enough good playerbase that uses klefki for that to matter. Most Klefki
any MMY fights are both bad and bold.
Except normal hits harder and allows you to use things like Megaray, which you haven't really addressed other than to say "it doesn't really matter and anyway look at scizor"
Scizor is the only slow pivot in the meta. That is a definitive niche it does nothing else can except lando-t (puke)
But I immediately know why I want to use Mega Luke, what it does that something else can't. The drop is predicated on the concept that you never actually want to put mmy on a team in practice. I'm not arguing one way or the other, simply saying you're not addressing the point.
The reason you'd want to use MMY is that its a Mon that beats
all Darkrai, often several in a row, without being able to be hit by a surprise coverage move. Unlike other counters, it also has other utility. My point with scizor wasn't clear. I meant that a mon that stops MRay from being used doesn't
automatically and irrevocably make it terrible.
Off topic, but why would you use Megaluc? It beats exactly 1 s-rank, 1 a-rank, and gets what I suppose is decent chip on a few other mons. Seriously, it's setup bait for Pdon/Arc Ghost/Arc Ground and instadies to PDon/MRay/Groundceus/Giratina-O/MMX.
Rank descriptions are dumb and outdated, a reason why many other tiers don't use/fully deleted them. It may not fit the description but it also may not be as good as the other things in B- which take precedence. If Groudon wasn't facing major competition from Primal Groudon it would be higher, and certainly performs well in practice. But because it has that competition (as well as other flaws, ik it's not a perfect comparison) that keeps it lower. Also I'm p sure mmy likes setup sweeper checks so like ekillers don't bust through.
Except both of those clearly do something others can't and aren't directly outclassed by a non-mega which does the same thing (wherever it goes, mmy < regular two)
That's pretty fair. I've seen the ranks used before in such, but I can see why that isn't a good argument even if for no other reason than because of how its a qualitative description and is noninclusive.
However if other mega's didn't exist/weren't constrained by clauses, life orb Mewtwo would never be used. MMY is nearly flat out better- While it does slightly less, It's within damage varience. Anything Mewtwo ko's that MMY doesn't is something it wasn't guaranteed to beat. The speed is also nice, the special defense is huge, and the ability is way better (in no other meta would you say that about insomnia. It seems really strange to say). However, that really isn't true that its worse, Either. Dialga, Ferrothorn, Shaymin-S... how is it worse? Shaymin is also instagibbed by setup sweepers, is only where it is because of its speed and ability, and its not being argued about. Similarly, Dialga beats MRay if it isn't set up and Dialga runs Shuca Berry, while also beating Diancie. As far as I can etll, thats it. It can't even pull a Megaluc and beat Xern. I suppose it can set up rocks, but that shouldn't be enough for it to be better.
252 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Psystrike vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 439-517 (67.4 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Psystrike vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 477-563 (73.2 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And a minor thing i forgot to mention: after a Swagger, Foul Play is a OHKO on MMY (about 120% minimum even if MMY has 0 IVs 0 investment and a Timid nature). Odds of MMY winning this matchup 1v1 if it uses Taunt and Klefki uses Swagger are about 0 since MMY has to hit 2 fire blasts.
If we are going to assume the less common calm, then their is no reason to assume fire blast. Lets, for reference, use flamethrower.
First time- 55% chance of hitting because swagger. 4% chance (approximately) of crit through, so 4% of victory, 51% of damage
Second- Cumulative 25.5% chance of hitting twice, plus 4% chance of having missed the first shot and critting here. 33%., not 0.
Hell, if its only for klefki, you might as well +2 0- Atk Mega Mewtwo Y Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Klefki: 362-426 (114.1 - 134.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
This is with 0 IVs, but that isn't important because you are 2hko'd by foul play anyway and can do this without it even if they are bold.
+2 0- Atk Mega Mewtwo Y Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 282-332 (88.9 - 104.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 0- Atk Mega Mewtwo Y Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 282-332 (88.9 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
While this is complete and total shit, you can make an MMy to defeat
every Klefki, while still beating Darkrai and MRay because MMY really only need fire coverage for the keys.
Please Calc it before you say 0.
