choice band arcanine with flare blitz wild bolt close combat and extremespeed is BA, it ko's almost anything, add intimidate and its a great hit and runner
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Arcanine
- Thread starter ghost
- Start date
Only issue is Hihidaruma has much more attack, encourage and similar speed, therefore vastly competeing with Arcanine as a CBer. I suppose Intimidate and Extremespeed make up for it somewhat but anyway, make sure it's not outclassed.
I used the same set that he just mentioned, and I ended up using Extremespeed most of the time anyway.
I'm pretty sure Arcanine has more bulk than Hihi does, which is worth mentioning.
Very true, especially with Intimidate it does (though you have to keep SR off to abuse this fact really). In any case, it's hard to overlook the sheer power Hihidaruma offers if your team has other reliable priority. If not, and you're not completely Flare Blitz suicidal, then Arcanine is probably better.
Also, CC>Daruma's fighting moves. Worth noting that a Wishpasser complimenting Arc reasonably well (ie Vappy/Jirachi) would help keep him alive after spamming out recoil moves. Speaking of which, I wish he got Reckless rather than Justice Heart in DW :/
Justice Heart makes sense based on the anime and what not though since he's used by cops. It should at least give a resistance to Dark though, if not an immunity, but whatever.
CC is probably his biggest advantage over Hihi though. CB CC 2HKOs Specially Defensive Zuruzukin after it's had a Bulk Up every time (meaning you can switch right into Arcanine without fear of missing the KO because of Bulk Up).
True, though it really was ill thought out - Pursuit and Sucker punch both won't work on it... Crunch, Night Slash and Dark Pulse are all really uncommon too.
Can Hihi not manage that 2HKO with Hammer arm? I know it has less BP and is not Encourage boosted but I would've thought the extra base attack made up for it.
has anyone tested the Lead set i think Arcanine would still benefit from using toxic it helps weaken a lot of pokes and i also think that intimidate is better than justice heart
@Sajak might agree with you there, but zuruzkin is pretty bulky :3 but dark moves still work by work i mean gives damage Arcanine doesn't absorb them
@Sajak might agree with you there, but zuruzkin is pretty bulky :3 but dark moves still work by work i mean gives damage Arcanine doesn't absorb them
I would imagine it could. Adamant Arc's CB CC leaves it well under 30%, so I'd imagine Hihi would be able to do the same considering the higher attack stat.
I'm saying I switched in on a Bulk Up and CCd the next turn, then KOd with another. I wasn't even attacked (and I run Intimidate anyway, so no Justice Heart boost).
Well here are the calcs now I have access to my 5th gen one:
CB Nine vs +1 Zuru - 67.7-80.2%
Essentially a definite 2HKO.
Here's Hihi's with Hammer Arm and the same nature and item:
CB Hihi vs +1 Zuru - 67.7-79.6%
Basically exactly the same power behind their fighting moves, essentially.
But teh .6% :P
I'd still go with Arcanine though personally. Not only as a matter of taste, but after a CC Arcanine can still outspeed some things that it's supposed to. Hihi won't be doing the same after Hammer Arm with need to switch out, while Arcanine doesn't necessarily need to.
Yeah, I can see Arcanine getting some OU use with some of his new toys. He's always had great attack and speed, adequate bulk, and an awesome priority move. With Flare Blitz, Close Combat, Crunch, Wild Bolt, and Extremespeed, he's going to really be a force. I don't know if this was posted already, but I think an Expert Belt set like this would be good. I say expert belt because he already takes enough damage from Flare Blitz and Wild Bolt.
Arcanine @ Expert Belt
Intimidate
Adamant Nature; 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Speed
--Flare Blitz
--Wild Bolt
--Extremespeed
--Close Combat/Crunch/Morning Sun
Morning sun is on there to recover the lots of damage he'll take from his two recoil moves. Otherwise, Wish support is ideal, and he can use Close Combat or Crunch.
Arcanine @ Expert Belt
Intimidate
Adamant Nature; 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Speed
--Flare Blitz
--Wild Bolt
--Extremespeed
--Close Combat/Crunch/Morning Sun
Morning sun is on there to recover the lots of damage he'll take from his two recoil moves. Otherwise, Wish support is ideal, and he can use Close Combat or Crunch.
I agree with you on the taste side (see avatar). Yeah Hammer Arm may have that annoying speed drop, however your opponent could just as easily switch in a Ghost, forcing you out - the hit and run nature of both as CBers means that the drops will effect neither in that sense. In fact, if Hammer arm had CC's power, LO Nine may prefer it due to the fact that he has Extremespeed as priority. As it is the dropped defences can be the death of him, along with recoil.
Having used a LO recoil set even with Sun to boost Morning Sun, his survivability is still pretty poor - he never gets the chance to MS if you're using him offensively. Wishpassing to him is definitely the way to go to increase his survivability.
I'd almost certainly pick CC over Crunch too - Crunch when SE =160 BP, while neutral Flare Blitz = 180 BP. Moreover, CC lets him destroy the Rock types who love to take fire moves like nothing.
@Timeneon: A big issue with any lead set is Hippowdon - Arc cannot 2HKO max Def variants so even staying in is a gamble. If he does hit it with FB he takes huge recoil, and risks either SR being set up or an EQ to the face which does 59.8-71% even at -1, which with the Recoil risks a KO. Then you have the issue of Heatran coming in on a Fire move.
The other Sand lead, TTar, is OHKOd by CC but risks being KOd back by SE, which is possible given a lot run Sash, so to beat it you need Sash yourself and hence lose to sleep leads.
Morning sun actually helps a lot. When using life orb or taking damage from SR, spikes, and or sand, he dies pretty fast making his survivability extremely low. Morning sun, with or without sun helps a lot, you use it when you force switches or when you think you can use it. It is just a preference thing though, use it if you like.
You're only going to be safe using it when you get a free switch in and you can force them out. Otherwise you hope for the off chance that they won't be able to take you out, and if you really needed the extra HP that badly, it's unlikely that it will be enough to make a difference in the first place.
That's a good point actually, I never thought of it. Only thing is Extremespeed may still be wanted due to the +2 Priority and fact that he still isn't that fast.
That's pretty true actually, and is why I found Morning Sun not all that great. When you know you're gonna get hit but still want to heal, it often, even with 70% healing countering lack of Intimidate, only slightly recovers more than the damage taken from a lot of attacks. It really seems not worth the moveslot for how often you use it. I think the free switch offered when something uses a fire move on Jirachi or a grass one on Vappy after using Wish is probably the best way to heal it. With SR up though good luck doing so - 25% health and a neutral hit after needing a wish back to full health is pretty unlikely, so spin support in necessary.
Gamefreak should have picked Arcanine as the Drought Pokemon :| He looks much more sun like than Ninetales.
^Gonna have to disagree only because ninetales is my favorite pokemon overall.
I tried running a bulky arcanine to see if I could put morning sun to good use. He lived through a lot and had decent survivability. The problem was that he would often fail to kill what I really needed him to kill and running close combat on a bulky set really isn't an option. There's howl alongside morning sun to boost his attack, but then you're left with only two attacking moves. Flare blitz and wild bolt?
I tried running a bulky arcanine to see if I could put morning sun to good use. He lived through a lot and had decent survivability. The problem was that he would often fail to kill what I really needed him to kill and running close combat on a bulky set really isn't an option. There's howl alongside morning sun to boost his attack, but then you're left with only two attacking moves. Flare blitz and wild bolt?
Seems like you've found a dilemna here - run offensive EV spreads but be unable to take hits well enough to get off a recovery move (as well as forfeit CC), or run a bulky one but be unable to get crucial KOs. Eugh, looks like a heavily refined EV spread may be in order for a balanced Arcanine...
Drought Arcanine with Close Combat = bye, bye, Tyranitar. I think it would have been too dominant. But Drought would have been very flavorful.
I just wish Justice Heart gave an immunity to Dark. Right now it's totally inconsistent with every other ability that cares about the attacking move type. (Flash Fire, Water Absorb, Volt Absorb, Lightningrod, Storm Drain, Motor Drive, Herbivore, all of those grant immunities; why not Justice Heart? Almost makes me think it was a programming error.)
Yes, but Justice Heart means Arcanine gets an attack boost to help right wrongs done to it, and if Arcanine was immune to Dark, it's not like it had been done any harm.
Also, Shandera is the only pokemon that resists Fire+Fighting+Normal. I would just take my chances that I don't see one, and Wild Bolt still deals considerable damage.
Arcanine is outclassed by DW Emboar in every way except going first (gee, I heard that was a pretty big thing, though), Morning Sun, possibly ability (Arcanine is more physically bulky if the opponent has been intimidated). Emboar is stronger physically, especially with reckless, gets Rock moves (including the boosted Head Smash), has the same special stat with a better movepool (it includes Boiling Water, Grass Knot and Focus Blast as well). It has more HP for surviving recoil.
Also, Shandera is the only pokemon that resists Fire+Fighting+Normal. I would just take my chances that I don't see one, and Wild Bolt still deals considerable damage.
Arcanine is outclassed by DW Emboar in every way except going first (gee, I heard that was a pretty big thing, though), Morning Sun, possibly ability (Arcanine is more physically bulky if the opponent has been intimidated). Emboar is stronger physically, especially with reckless, gets Rock moves (including the boosted Head Smash), has the same special stat with a better movepool (it includes Boiling Water, Grass Knot and Focus Blast as well). It has more HP for surviving recoil.
Emboar is stronger physically said:
I agree with Kefka. DW Emboar has a larger movepool than Arcanine I'll give it that but like kefka mentioned it's terribly frail, priority weak, sr weak, and takes a large amount of damage from recoil which will cause it to die faster. Specially if it were to come into SR or spikes even both entry hazards.
Not sure what this means, but Justice Heart is basically a bad version of Herbivore. They are identical except for the type against which they activate... and that Herbivore gives a Grass immunity while Justice Heart does not. It's incredibly dumb.
ok guys defensive nine is pretty cool
I use SpD nine; while it adds a sr weakness to my already 2x SR weak hail team, it's actually really cool. Intimidate has incredible utility, but I do find myself always wishing I had a better filler move than wild bolt... I'm definitely going to try crunch though (hell I didn't even know it had crunch, hehe)
I use SpD nine; while it adds a sr weakness to my already 2x SR weak hail team, it's actually really cool. Intimidate has incredible utility, but I do find myself always wishing I had a better filler move than wild bolt... I'm definitely going to try crunch though (hell I didn't even know it had crunch, hehe)