#### dr00

stadium 2 i think is when little cup was first introduced. it may have been the first though.

#### MegaKick

I don't understand the ban-list at all. What makes Misdrevous, Yanma, and Tangela warrent a ban from the Little Cup?
Adding to what ete said, check this out: http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/little_cup_guide

It was made before misdreavus was banned, but other than that, it explains why each of the ubers are ubers, as well as a newcomers guide.
Welcome to Smogon!

#### eric the espeon

##### maybe I just misunderstood
There was an old guide up for a long time, but it was not really played until this thread, took off more with this thread, then when I started the LCF started we really got going.

#### StealthX

I have a question about little cup EVing. I'm planning on EVing a Teddiursa with 36 HP/ 196 Atk/ 36 Def/ 36 Sp. Def/ 196 Spe (and if it matters, a Adamant nature). However, when I was calculating the nessissary amount of battles in the LC EVing guide, I ran into a problem.

Choose your EV spread, then take 100 points away from each stat you are investing more than 100 EVs in, and for stats you are investing less than 100 EVs in take away the largest multiple of 10 that you can without dropping into negative numbers. This represents using Vitamins on these stats; yes, it will be expensive.
The next part is complicated by Magikarp/Starly giving one Speed EV as well as the four EVs per battle you get from the correct Power Item, so it may be slightly tricky to follow:
1. Divide needed EVs for each non-Speed stat by eight (four without Pokérus)
2. Round each up
3. Add up the total then multiply by two (unless you lack Pokérus, in which case don't multiply) and take it away from the needed Speed (if the number drops below 0 you must add multiples of 10 until the result is greater than 0, these are Tamato Berries to compensate for gaining too many Speed EVs while training for other stats).
4. Divide the remaining needed Speed by ten (five without Pokérus)
5. Round Speed up
6. Add the Speed number to each of the other stats. This is the number of battles you will need.
After doing up to step 4, the speed was 0.00049019608. My problem, however, is whether I round up to 1, or leave it at 0. (obviously, I'm inclinde to think it is the latter, but I would like someone to conferm it)

EDIT: thank you dr00!

#### dr00

sometimes it's easier just to do things manually.

for each 36 EV stat, give two vitamins, battle twice with power item attached
for 196, 10 vitamins, battle 12 times with power item attached

HP - 36 EVs - 2 battles
Atk - 196 EVs - 12 battles
Def - 36 EVs - 2 battles
SPDef - 36 EVs - 2 battles

add the last column and you get 18 x 2 = 36

so once you finish HP, Atk, Def, SPDef, you should start with 136 EVs when you start specifically training speed.

196 - 136 = 60
since you'll be getting 10 EVs per battle this time, you only do 6 battles for speed

so you should be doing this:

infect with pokerus

give the following vitamins: 2 HP Up, 10 Protein, 2 Iron, 2 Zinc, 10 Carbos

HP - 36 EVs - 2 battles
Atk - 196 EVs - 12 battles
Def - 36 EVs - 2 battles
SPDef - 36 EVs - 2 battles
Spd - 196 EVs - 6 battles

and it's vitally important you always do speed last.

#### Killah

I've been running a Croagunk revenge killer set on a sandstorm team, and was wondering what item would be best for it.

Croagunk @ ???
Naughty, 52 HP, 188 Atk, 36 Def, 196 Spd, 28 Sp Atk
~Fake Out
~Sucker Punch
~Vacuum Wave
~Ice Punch

I sacrificed one point in Sp Atk for a point in defense and a point in hp.

Some potential items I've looked at include:
Lum berry
Shuca berry (Gligar never ohko's w/EQ before sandstorm damage, 33% chance with SR)
Muscle Band
Life Orb (requires a tweak in the EVs to hit 19 HP)
Custap berry (gimmicky, allows me to go first once when my HP drops below 1/3, which is more likely with sandstorm out)
Black Sludge

I guess these are my only options really lol. I've used the first two so far, but not once has the Shuca berry been useful, and the Lum hasn't been very helpful either. I kind of want to avoid Life Orb due to the sandstorm damage, but I find that croagunk's power is a tad lacking without it. Custap berry might be just gimmicky enough to score a quick kill on a pesky gligar or dratini :)

#### Shinji Mimura

Quick question: How viable are Curse users in Little Cup? Seeing as how the metagame is quite fast, I didn't figure they'd be usable (although maybe with Trick Room?).

I'm trying to think of how to make a good Curse Simple Numel, but if the strategy doesn't even work, I mean...

#### Destiny Warrior

##### also known as Darkwing_Duck
@Shinji: No defense booster is viable here. You usually have only 3 turns of TR, which is not sufficient to set up and sweep, and otehrwise, you get swampedby special sweepers. So no, CUrse is very unviable.

#### eric the espeon

##### maybe I just misunderstood
Lileep can be a good defensive booster, and apparently someone got a CM Bronzor to work. There may be a decent Curser, but I don't know of any that have proven to be effective. The most promising at a glance (Munchlax) tends to be better off just attacking.

#### iss

##### happily ever after
I've been running a Croagunk revenge killer set on a sandstorm team, and was wondering what item would be best for it.

Croagunk @ ???
Naughty, 52 HP, 188 Atk, 36 Def, 196 Spd, 28 Sp Atk
~Fake Out
~Sucker Punch
~Vacuum Wave
~Ice Punch

I sacrificed one point in Sp Atk for a point in defense and a point in hp.

Some potential items I've looked at include:
Lum berry
Shuca berry (Gligar never ohko's w/EQ before sandstorm damage, 33% chance with SR)
Muscle Band
Life Orb (requires a tweak in the EVs to hit 19 HP)
Custap berry (gimmicky, allows me to go first once when my HP drops below 1/3, which is more likely with sandstorm out)
Black Sludge

I guess these are my only options really lol. I've used the first two so far, but not once has the Shuca berry been useful, and the Lum hasn't been very helpful either. I kind of want to avoid Life Orb due to the sandstorm damage, but I find that croagunk's power is a tad lacking without it. Custap berry might be just gimmicky enough to score a quick kill on a pesky gligar or dratini :)
Use life orb. The others are useless/gimmicky.

#### Ice-eyes

##### Simper Fi
Agreed. I've used Croagunk in teams with damaging weather and it really doesn't matter too much. It's not like Croagunk is actually going to be taking hits, and Dry Skin will often afford it abilities to heal itself.

#### pikanube

what item should my dratini sweeper be hollding, life orb or an oran berry?

and dr00, how many battles would it take to EV these: 28 HP / 244 Atk / 36 SpD / 196 S

and why is it important to EV speed last?

#### little gk

##### competitive oosos player
the difference in the two items is bulk against power, so is ultimately up to your own personal preference. Life Orb is the most common choice because of the firepower it brings to a sweeper who can use priority to revenge weakened opponents off the bat. Oran Berry, however, can be used to give Dratini a better chance at setting up Dragon Dances.

#### pikanube

the difference in the two items is bulk against power, so is ultimately up to your own personal preference. Life Orb is the most common choice because of the firepower it brings to a sweeper who can use priority to revenge weakened opponents off the bat. Oran Berry, however, can be used to give Dratini a better chance at setting up Dragon Dances.
lol that's quite the dilemma. more speed/attack from DD vs more damage in Outrage/Flamethrower/DM (yes this dratini will be a mixed sweeper)

#### dr00

what item should my dratini sweeper be hollding, life orb or an oran berry?

and dr00, how many battles would it take to EV these: 28 HP / 244 Atk / 36 SpD / 196 S

and why is it important to EV speed last?
you do speed last because you train on magikarp that give you 2 speed EVs with your attached power item that gives you 8 EVs in any specific stat.

to break down what you should do and why:

first thing you do before anything is infect your pokemon with pokerus. it makes this process go SO much faster and, with the extra boost in EVs, you have a nice safety net in case you mess up.

28 HP
as stated above, you'll be training with an attached power item that gives 8 EVs, so you'll want to vitamin up until you have a multiple of 8. thankfully 28 gives a nice number for you.
2 HP Ups then 1 battle with Power Weight attached

244 Atk
doing 100 Protein leaves you with 144 Atk left. 144 / 8 = 18
so 10 Proteins, 18 battles with Power Bracer attached

36 SPDef
this is a case where not giving the maximum vitamins before training can help you.
instead of giving 3 vitamins and leaving the remaining to be only 6, 2 viamins and 2 battles gets your 36 SPDef perfectly
2 Zing, 2 Battles with Power Band

196 Spd
for speed, you have to do things a bit differently:
first, you have gained 2 EVs for each battle so far.
second is, since magikarp gives 2 Spd EVs and you're holding the Power Anklet, you get 10 EVs in Spd per battle.

totaling up the other battles: 21 * 2 EVs = 42
196 - 142 = 54 leftover EVs
divide by 10 and you get a little over 6. it's okay to go over on speed because you've trained everything else already
so 10 Carbos, then 21 battles with other Power Items attached, then 6 battles with Power Anklet attached

your process should be in this order:

1. infect with pokerus
2. 2 HP Ups, 10 Proteins, 2 Zinc, 10 Carbos
3. 1 battle with Power Weight, 18 battles with Power Bracer, 2 battles with Power Band, 6 battles with Power Anklet

as for oran and life orb, try each other several times to see which one helps you more. they're both just as good on paper imo

#### Darkamber8828

Where can I calculate damage in little cup?

#### Dubulous

##### I look just like Buddy Holly.
Doug's Calculator on-site is the best calculator for Little Cup play out there. To use it, simply click the "Other" button and slide the level for both Pokemon to Level 5.

#### dr00

i'm training a riolu and i'm wondering which spread is better:

36 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SPDef / 196 Spd

116 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Spd

or do they come out exactly the same?

EDIT: nvm the first spread is better. need to re-EV riolu lol :(

#### pikanube

elekid or voltorb on my rain dance little cup team?

#### Darkamber8828

Pikanube, as a lead, Voltorb is better, because it can Taunt and explode.

As a mid-game setter, Elekid is better, because it has better coverage and offensive stats.

EDIT: Thanks, Dubulous. Didn't notice that.

#### pikanube

Pikanube, as a lead, Voltorb is better, because it can Taunt and explode.

As a mid-game setter, Elekid is better, because it has better coverage and offensive stats.

EDIT: Thanks, Dubulous. Didn't notice that.
oh oky, thnx. im going to use elekid because i have a staryu lead.

#### Skypirate

I'm not sure if this question has been asked already but what playstyle do you think would be the best for someone who has just started playing LC?

#### iss

##### happily ever after
I'm not sure if this question has been asked already but what playstyle do you think would be the best for someone who has just started playing LC?
Heavy offense is easiest. Just toss things in and pound away.

#### Skypirate

Okay, thanks. Time to start making a team I guess.

#### Flossy

Why is Gligar not banned ? I thought Little Cup rules stated that the Pokemon competing couldn't be ever at any point in time be a only evolution. Which he was in GSC.