All Gens Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer Mark II (RoA edition)

If I want to make a suggestion for the "What if" thread, where should I do it? I wanted to discuss Defog working as it does right now but in Gen 4, since Stealth Rock was a big game changer in that gen.
 

Typhlito

One Activer Dawg
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If I want to make a suggestion for the "What if" thread, where should I do it? I wanted to discuss Defog working as it does right now but in Gen 4, since Stealth Rock was a big game changer in that gen.
If you have a suggestion for the what if thread, feel free to send me a message. Im always up for suggestions.
 
Right here if you ask more specific questions.
In terms of general knowledge bases you'd still need to be more specific since it's all very dispersed and largely outdated (many old metas aren't dead)
 
in terms of what dominated the meta , big treaths , its checks counters the reasonsof the bans , likegen 2 was super stall all the way by the advent of blissey and psychic stop being OP, that kind of stuff...
 
likegen 2 was super stall all the way by the advent of blissey and psychic stop being OP, that kind of stuff...
Gen 2 isn't really super stall js. It can be if you want it to be, but most of the time it isn't, with things like Lax, explosion, Champ, Nido and Wak being notable things that are more offensively inclined. Also Blissey isn't even that good tbh, super passive and it has to coexist with Lax, which is kinda similar to Blissey defensively (only far from useless on offense).

Also regarding reasoning for bans, for gen 1-3 afaik it was pretty much that they were assumed to be too powerful, generally with good reason. It wasn't until gen 4 that you had suspect tests being carried out

In terms of what dominated the meta, it's worth checking out the viability rankings for each gen, links to them can be found in this thread. C&C you're probably best off looking at the respective threat's analysis. Smogon's got analyses for every pokemon that's relevant to each generation's ou, although they're not always the most up to date. Pokemon Perfect has analyses that are more current, but only for gen 1/3 and its gen 3 analyses cover fewer pokemon than smogon (trying to be objective here)

In terms of broader picture strategic elements, I'm not sure where you'd go. I'm not sure how I'd go about summing them up tbh, like I've thought about it and idk what to talk about and where to stop.
 
Yeah that's the modern system of win-loss. I guess that's just how the system is coded to handle all battles, no matter the gen.
 
Can sombody please explain to me why the special drop chance for psychic was changed from 10% to 30% in gen 1? I've been looking in vain for this information, and as someone who enjoys gen 1 randoms battles it has really shaken up my life. Thanks for your time.
 

Karxrida

Spoopy Dragon
is a Community Contributor
Can sombody please explain to me why the special drop chance for psychic was changed from 10% to 30% in gen 1? I've been looking in vain for this information, and as someone who enjoys gen 1 randoms battles it has really shaken up my life. Thanks for your time.
That's how it is for the original game carts. Game Freak nerfed it in Gen II.
 
I've been trying to make a competitive team on Yellow using the Virtual Console release. I'm to the point where I've beaten the E4 and have the duplication glitch down for Vitamins, but has the exact amount of times you need to defeat the E4 to reach max "Stat Experience" been discovered and does the EXP ALL share "Stat Experience" between all your Pokemon? The guide in the OP just says to train on GSC, which isn't an option here, so any tips or a nudge in the direction of a proper guide is appreciated.
 
I've been trying to make a competitive team on Yellow using the Virtual Console release. I'm to the point where I've beaten the E4 and have the duplication glitch down for Vitamins, but has the exact amount of times you need to defeat the E4 to reach max "Stat Experience" been discovered and does the EXP ALL share "Stat Experience" between all your Pokemon? The guide in the OP just says to train on GSC, which isn't an option here, so any tips or a nudge in the direction of a proper guide is appreciated.
The exact amount of time has been discovered - http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/stat-experience-training-in-rby-gsc.3467090/ This was just for Red Blue, because of course your Rival's team is different in Yellow, but as you can see the number of rounds per stat barely differ. Fight the Elite Four with your team 37 or 38 times and you're probably fine.

But remember, if you've used your team BEFORE battling the Elite Four, you've already gotten SOME Stat Experience, so you may not need that many runs. And if you use max vitamins, you cut that number down to about 20. Too bad the VC releases don't let you use Dodrio mode like Stadium :P

EXP ALL does not share stat experience.
 

Skeptics

Banned deucer.
why are there some moves that pokes can learn in RBY exclusively? best example i can think of is reflect chansey
 
Mostly because those moves were TMs in Gen I that lost TM status in Gen II - Reflect is a perfect example of that. Some of those moves regained TM status in later gens, and Game Freak seemed to decide what Gen I Pokemon were re-eligible for the TM on a case-by-case basis, likely more concerned with paying attention to balance in the current generation rather than adhering to whether the Pokemon could learn it in Gen I or not.
 

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy
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Legit question: how do you get a charm oddish in gsc? Bulbapedia tells me it's coded to be able to learn it as an egg move but no other pokes in its Egg group can learn it legitimately (and by extension neither can oddish). Is this true because if so Charm probably shouldn't be legal in gsc (it currently is), which actually has important consequences for UU...
 
Legit question: how do you get a charm oddish in gsc? Bulbapedia tells me it's coded to be able to learn it as an egg move but no other pokes in its Egg group can learn it legitimately (and by extension neither can oddish). Is this true because if so Charm probably shouldn't be legal in gsc (it currently is), which actually has important consequences for UU...
I don't think it's a legal combination in GSC, as the move is mutually exclusive egg move-ish for Oddish, but I may be wrong. There may be a bug I'm unaware of that makes this possible, as a chain exists, but it would require Nidoran-M somehow keeping Charm in its meta-data until it bred with the next in the chain (Serebii has the listings, check Here). So unless I'm missing something, or there's a glitch, I don't think it's possible (At least for GSC).

Chain???
Granbull-M+Nidoran-F=Nidoran-M
Nidoran-M+Snorlax-F=Snorlax-M
Snorlax-M+Venasaur-F=Bulbasaur-M
Bulbasaur-M+Vileplume-F= Oddish
 
From Bulbapedia's trivia:

"In Pokémon Gold and Silver, Oddish is programmed to be able to learn Charm through breeding, but no other Pokémon in the Grass Group can legitimately learn it to pass down as an Egg Move in those games. In Generation III and IV, Oddish can inherit the move from Shroomish by chain breeding. In Generation V on, Oddish can inherit the move directly from Cottonee."

They programmed it but didn't include any legit parents to pass the move to Oddish. Therefore Charm Vileplume/Bellossom shouldn't be legal in GSC.
 
I've been wanting to build a GSC team which features Meganium, but the more I think about it, the more I find that Skarmory fits the role much better. It is a better physical wall in both stats and typing, and Whirlwind is considerably better than Leech Seed at forcing switches. Moreover, Skarmory is less concerned with status, with Toxic immunity and Rest on most serious sets. The only point I can see in favour of Meganium is that it takes Thunder like a champ, which Skarmory most certainly does not. Have I missed, or worse, misunderstood something about Meganium in the second generation?
 
I think you're using it wrong if you're using it like a Skarmory. I've never used it, but looking at its sample sets it seems it's either used for screens or Swords Dance.
 

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy
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I've been wanting to build a GSC team which features Meganium, but the more I think about it, the more I find that Skarmory fits the role much better. It is a better physical wall in both stats and typing, and Whirlwind is considerably better than Leech Seed at forcing switches. Moreover, Skarmory is less concerned with status, with Toxic immunity and Rest on most serious sets. The only point I can see in favour of Meganium is that it takes Thunder like a champ, which Skarmory most certainly does not. Have I missed, or worse, misunderstood something about Meganium in the second generation?
So I figure you're looking at Meganium and Skarm as both being Lax counters. They also have overlap in terms of being able to handle Marowak, Machamp, Quagsire, and Exeggutor. Skarmory is a more solid answer to most of these threats for the reasons you mention. Plus, it handles Heracross, whereas Meganium most certainly does not. However, Meganium is one of the best counters to Growth Vaporeon out there, and it also handles Curse Rhydon/Steelix with ease, both of which are things Skarmory can't do. Meganium probably shouldn't be tasked with switching into Electrics unless it's as a Light Screen-using pivot; it loses the PP war pretty hard against them.

Standard set for Meganium is probably something like:
Meganium @ Leftovers
-Leech Seed
-Synthesis
-Reflect
-(filler)

where the (filler) move can be a status move (Toxic or Body Slam), Light Screen to fill out a dual-screens set, or Razor Leaf for dissuading Starmie/Cloyster/Donphan/Golem from coming in to spin away precious Spikes. Or, more rarely, even a coverage move like Earthquake (to check Gengar), Hidden Power Ice (to shoo out Exeggutor while maintaining Razor Leaf's SE coverage against Ground-types), or Hidden Power Fire (shooing out Egg and keeping Forretress from spiking/spinning on you).

Counter sounds like fun, but it requires you to drop Leech Seed, which is quite a big ask as it's the main reason Meganium is considered a good check to Vap and Snorlax. Meganium dissuades a lot of Physical attackers from staying in anyway.

Swords dance is almost never going to do anything useful, but if you're dead-set on using it, you can try:
Meganium @ Leftovers
-Swords Dance
-Body Slam
-Hidden Power Fire/Earthquake
-Synthesis/Leech Seed

HP Fire lets you muscle past Skarm (it's got a solid chance to 3HKO), which you need to be able to do if you're going to be a halfway serious offensive threat. EQ can be an alternative, though, if you really need to be able to hit Ghosts (Rocks aren't as big a deal because you're friggin' Meganium). No STAB, but Synthesis + Body Slam para will give you plenty of chances to set up, at least. Leech Seed is listed as a Synthesis alternative to try to keep Lax from Cursing up on you. Idk, tbf Leech Seed might be better over the coverage move, I just don't know.
 
So I figure you're looking at Meganium and Skarm as both being Lax counters. They also have overlap in terms of being able to handle Marowak, Machamp, Quagsire, and Exeggutor. Skarmory is a more solid answer to most of these threats for the reasons you mention. Plus, it handles Heracross, whereas Meganium most certainly does not. However, Meganium is one of the best counters to Growth Vaporeon out there, and it also handles Curse Rhydon/Steelix with ease, both of which are things Skarmory can't do. Meganium probably shouldn't be tasked with switching into Electrics unless it's as a Light Screen-using pivot; it loses the PP war pretty hard against them.

Standard set for Meganium is probably something like:
Meganium @ Leftovers
-Leech Seed
-Synthesis
-Reflect
-(filler)

where the (filler) move can be a status move (Toxic or Body Slam), Light Screen to fill out a dual-screens set, or Razor Leaf for dissuading Starmie/Cloyster/Donphan/Golem from coming in to spin away precious Spikes. Or, more rarely, even a coverage move like Earthquake (to check Gengar), Hidden Power Ice (to shoo out Exeggutor while maintaining Razor Leaf's SE coverage against Ground-types), or Hidden Power Fire (shooing out Egg and keeping Forretress from spiking/spinning on you).

Counter sounds like fun, but it requires you to drop Leech Seed, which is quite a big ask as it's the main reason Meganium is considered a good check to Vap and Snorlax. Meganium dissuades a lot of Physical attackers from staying in anyway.

Swords dance is almost never going to do anything useful, but if you're dead-set on using it, you can try:
Meganium @ Leftovers
-Swords Dance
-Body Slam
-Hidden Power Fire/Earthquake
-Synthesis/Leech Seed

HP Fire lets you muscle past Skarm (it's got a solid chance to 3HKO), which you need to be able to do if you're going to be a halfway serious offensive threat. EQ can be an alternative, though, if you really need to be able to hit Ghosts (Rocks aren't as big a deal because you're friggin' Meganium). No STAB, but Synthesis + Body Slam para will give you plenty of chances to set up, at least. Leech Seed is listed as a Synthesis alternative to try to keep Lax from Cursing up on you. Idk, tbf Leech Seed might be better over the coverage move, I just don't know.
Thanks for the reply, it's very helpful. "Snorlax counter" is perhaps overly specific, I'm thinking about it as a general purpose physical wall, but Snorlax is obviously one of the more important things Meganium will have to face. The point about countering Vaporeon is something I didn't think about, but it could be very relevant. You're probably right about the Electrics as well.

Do you think a defensive core of Suicune and Meganium has anything going for it?
 

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy
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Sounds pretty redundant and super passive. With Meganium I'd look instead to pair it with a sold Spikes game (spiker + spinblocker) or with a sweeper that gets super scary with screens up (Rhydon or Tentacruel).

Spikes Meganium team example:
Raikou @ leftovers: tbolt/roar/reflect/rest
Snorlax @ leftovers: de/fb/eq/rest
Meganium @ leftovers: leech seed/reflect/toxic/synthesis
Cloyster @ leftovers: ib/spikes/toxic/explosion
Gengar @ leftovers: tbolt/ice punch/dpunch/explosion
Miltank @ leftovers: bslam/growl/milk/bell
(spin cloy & missy might be preferable here, but I personally didn't like how that team only had 6 attacks total)

Screens Meganium team example:
Zapdos @ leftovers: thunder/hp ice/rest/st
Meganium @ leftovers: ls/reflect/synthesis/leech seed
Snorlax @ leftovers: de/lk/curse/rest
Houndoom @ leftovers: fb/pursuit/crunch/counter
Rhydon @ leftovers: eq/rs/roar/curse
Starmie @ leftovers: surf/twave/rapid spin/recover

Also totally irrelevant but I love how the user Leftovers that keeps popping up has a Marowak avatar.
 

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